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Do You Follow Jesus

Are you following the REAL Jesus Christ, or a Jesus that really does not exist?

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 ---Leslie on 8/8/11
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I knew it would not be the easiest to see in my quote, and it does get better than that one small example.
---James_L on 8/12/11

I have no issues with what you wrote, none at all. In fact you actually answered a question for me which i knew little about. I know very little about who and how these men became " church fathers" and you helped answer that for me. Thank you again
---Francis on 8/13/11


//Thus far there has been only one Saviour biblically introduced to mankind.
However another will be revealed. One "who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God, in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God."2Th 2:4
Therefore, "Watch and pray, lest you enter into temptation. [For] The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak." Mat 26:41
"Watch at all times, praying that you may have strength to 'escape' (shun or flee the origin, [both person and place], from which) all these things that will take place, and to stand before the Son of man." Luk 21:36
---joseph on 8/9/11//

Well stated joseph-
Thanks for posting.
---char on 8/13/11


"I think it important to clarify, (based on questions I've had in the past.)"
Chria9396 I would be happy to clarify whatever you deem unclear concerning my posts, and why I responded as I did. I would also be happy to answer, to the best of my ability, any question you present to me. The only reason that i did not address your previous questions is because I was offline when the question was asked, and by the time I returned, Reba had answered well, and you seemed both satisfied, and in agreement with her answer.
---joseph on 8/13/11


"Leez"But how else can Joseph Smith, Charles Taze Russell, and Ellen White get people to believe in error if they had others study the writings of the church fathers? did you know that Joseph Smith and Charles T. Russel where freemacons, White has coppied most of her prophecies from existing sources. Up to this day, inspite of clear proofs, non of the above religious groups is wlling to admit this? however when reading the history of the church fathers we find that indeed some of them where expelled or put under question because of vieuws not entirely clear. THE eronic ancient churches never hid a mistake of one of their fathers, whilst the NEW true churches do nothing else but covering up. my question is WHY.
---andy3996 on 8/13/11


Clunity: Strike two!

You believe that slow process Evolution by mutation created Jesus' mother, Mary. Thus you believe that Jesus descended from lower life forms. (Yes, I believe that Adam was made from dirt plus the breath of life.)

Your belief in slow process Evolution and thus slow process deposition of fossil layers contradicts the near-instantaneous (by comparison) deposition resulting from Noah's flood. You can't believe in Evolution and the flood. It is insanity to believe two contradicting processes.

Care to swing again? Was Jesus lying or trying to deceive when He said that He created in six days?
---jerry6593 on 8/13/11




\\church fathers. Who also insisted that those stuck in pergatory can be set free and sent to heaven for a monitary price, \\

Please give the name of one Church father who said this, francis.

I'm Orthodox, but what you said has NEVER been the official Catholic teaching about purgatory (please note the proper spelling). And Orthodox do not believe in purgatory.

Glory to Jesus Christ.
---Cluny on 8/13/11


\\I read what James wrote ot me, I choose to just say thank you, but I did not see any expounding...\\
---Francis on 8/12/11

There were two notes I made about that excerpt.

1) "one short example". Maybe I should have written "one small example"

It was also a good fit for this blog question "Are you following the REAL Jesus"

What I quoted from Polycarp was indeed expounding, because he made clearer what Paul was talking about in 1Cor 15 about some teaching that the dead are not raised.

2) "But it gets better than that".

I knew it would not be the easiest to see in my quote, and it does get better than that one small example.
---James_L on 8/12/11


Ask Francis if they believe Ellen G. White is in Heaven.
---Rob on 8/12/11
Adventist beleive that Mary, Ellen White, King David and many others are DEAD AND BURIED, and awaiting the resurrection. We do not beleive that they are in heaven. We do not believe that people go to heaven when they die, but rather as the BIBLE says are in the grave awaiting the resurrection. The teaching that people go to heaven when they die, is yet another false teaching brought to us by the friendly neighbourhood church fathers. Who also insisted that those stuck in pergatory can be set free and sent to heaven for a monitary price, yet the bible says that our salvation was NOT PURCHASED WITH corruptible things 1 Peter 1:18
---francis on 8/12/11


Reba, a good question to ask Francis is if they believe Ellen G. White, who's teaching Francis follows and claims to be a Prophet of God, but has been proven to be a False Prophet.

Ask Francis if they believe Ellen G. White is in Heaven.
---Rob on 8/12/11


\\Which of the fathers spoke directly to God as did to his prophects who wrote the OT and the apostles who wrote the NT?\\

Please prove your point that none of the fathers were spoken to directly by God, francis.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/12/11




francis//Here is the biggest problem -Paul who started many of the early churches IS NOT A CHURCH FATHER go figure

Your biggest problem is that you fail miserably to realize that some of the early church fathers had as their mentors the Apostles themselves.

None of them supported adherence to the Jewish Sabbath nor can you find anything of a command in the Bible to the effect that the church was to observe the Jewish sabbath.

Olde Ellen White like Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormon religion, believed that the early church was all Roman Catholic and became corrupted shortly after the death of the Apostles. Church history does not support that viewpoint.
---leej on 8/12/11


joseph, yes, Reba DID comfirm what i already believed the Word to say.
You wrote: "Watch and pray, lest you enter into temptation. [For] The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak." Mat 26:41
"Watch at all times, praying that you may have strength to 'escape'" "and to stand before the Son of man." While very true, this might imply to some believers that it IS possible to be deceived. Since the question refers to the REAL Jesus, I think it important to clarify, (based on questions I've had in the past.)
---chria9396 on 8/12/11


Francis, I have no faith or belief in Mary to the point of praying to or through her, however, to say she's not in heaven is saying you know more than God. If God saw that Mary was righteous enough to bear His Son Jesus, then Jesus cared enough for her to appointed her a guardian(John) at His death, then surely we can believe that she is indeed in heaven. It's not Mary's fault that humans have given her a more righteous position than she should have, she is not to blame. Neither you nor I know if she is there but I feel certain that she is.
---Reba on 8/12/11


\Good point, leej.
---Cluny on 8/12/11
PURE GARBAGE by Leej and CLUNY
Which of the fathers spoke directly to God as did to his prophects who wrote the OT and the apostles who wrote the NT?

And the BIBLE itself spoke about the corruption of the church even while the apotles lived

THE MYSTERY OF INIQUITY DOTH ALREADY WORK.

I read what James wrote ot me, I choose to just say thank you, but I did not see any expounding in that all I saw was repetition of what was already written.

Here is the biggest problem
Paul who started many of the early churches IS NOT A CHURCH FATHER go figure
---Francis on 8/12/11


Riddle me this Joker, are these "church fathers" the same ones who brought to us pergatory, endulgences, and pitition to dead saints?
Are these the same "church fathers" which promted Luther to declare as the bible did THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH?
Joker, are these the very same "church fathers" who brought us Mary as queen of heaven, although we all know that mary is dead and not in heaven?
---Francis on 8/12/11


\\Many of the cults - Mormons, Adventists, Jehovah's Witnesses do not study the writings of the church fathers since they teach that the church became corrupted after the death of the last Apostle and needed to be restored or reformed.\\

Good point, leej.

Please note that most modern cults such as these and others are simply repackaging of the same old heresies that the fathers wrote about centuries ago.

Satan doesn't have many new ideas.

Glory to Jesus Christ.
---Cluny on 8/12/11


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chria9396 Reba answered your question well, and I am sure she only confirmed what you already knew:o) "Even when revealed, there of course, still will be only 1 true Lord and savior Jesus Christ." True that, and I did not mean to imply otherwise. However the deception will be convincing, and there are those who believe The Spurious one comes as some sort of oppressor, when in reality He will be a master of deception, and "by peace [and flatteries] shall destroy many." In a time of prosperity, and a false sense of security, the deceived "shall say, Peace and safety, [it is] then [that] 'sudden' destruction comes upon them". This is simply a reminder that the false will be revealed before the True Christ returns.
---joseph on 8/11/11


leej on 8/10/11:

Sorry I had missed your post, GREAT post regarding some of the modern heresies.
---James_L on 8/11/11


francis,
Your welcome.

Without the fathers, we would have very little idea that there were so many NT warnings against Gnosticism, the primary heresy of the early church.

There is an absolute treasure trove in the writings of the early fathers. Explanations of the two different genealogies of Christ, the darkness when Christ was crucified, critical arguments against other heresies concerning the nature of Christ, and much more.

Theologians of our day have leaned heavily on the fathers. In fact, if we do not learn from them, we cannot understand some of what the bible says because the bible doesn't go into a lot of detailed explanation on some issues. It was written to people who knew the contextual backdrop already.
---James_L on 8/11/11


jerry, do you believe that Jesus is descended from a lump of dirt?

A strict interpretation of Genesis 2:7 says so.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/11/11


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Leslie,

How would anyone possible know the answer to that?
---atheist on 8/11/11


\\ It is to say that the apostles teaching were not clear?\\

Does your preacher expound upon the teachings of the apostles?

Is his doing so saying they are not clear?

Glory to JEsus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/11/11


MarkV, thank you for encouragement. In all honesty, I have to work at having my heart right or unbiased, by bringing all to the Lord. Some truths are easier to accept then others, but yes, I do desire truth.

I like your suggestion to work from God to man, and using His nature, character and attributes. Thank you.
---chria9396 on 8/11/11


\\You haven't swung at your other two false beliefs about Jesus yet. Care to try?\\

But I have never said that Jesus disbelieved the stories of Noah or Jonah.

In fact, I have repeatedly denied it here, and for some reason my statements have not been posted.

The real question, jerry, is why have you slandered me by saying I believe things I in fact do not?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/11/11


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Jerry said:Glory to the REAL Jesus Christ!

So who is this real Jesus Christ? There is only one that I know of, the One that was born of a virgin, that is the 2nd Person of the Trinity that existed before the beginning of time. He was crucified for our sake, died, was buried, rose from the dead, and will come again
Which Jesus Christ are you talking about?
---Blogmeister on 8/11/11


---James_L on 8/11/
Thanks
---francis on 8/11/11


francis,
one short example from the epistle of Polycarp to the Philippians:

"For whosoever does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh, is antichrist, and whosoever does not confess the testimony of the cross, is of the devil, and whosoever perverts the oracles of the Lord to his own lusts, and says that there is neither a resurrection nor a judgment, he is the first-born of Satan. Wherefore, forsaking the vanity of many, and their false doctrines, let us return to the word which has been handed down to us from the beginning."

He expounded on 1John 4:1-3 and alluded to 1Cor 15:12-20 in a warning to reject the teachings of the Gnostics

But it gets better than that. Read the Fathers, francis
---James_L on 8/11/11


Clunity: Strike one! So you think that a new name for Jesus erases His OT acts? How lame. He had many names in the OT and the NT. The NT declares that the OT was all about Jesus, that He was the Creator in Eden, that He was the Rock that followed Israel in the wilderness, and that His name was "I AM" - that of the Lawgiver on Sinai - before Abraham existed.

You haven't swung at your other two false beliefs about Jesus yet. Care to try?

Glory to the REAL Jesus Christ!
---jerry6593 on 8/11/11


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Chria, Whats great is that you do not have a bias heart. You want to know the Truth. That's wonderful because your open to listen, think, and check it with the Word of God. One thing that helped me understand passages, not all, is that I begin with God and work my way down to man. If you use the nature, character and attributes of God and compare what your reading, what you are reading can never contradict who God is. Never. If they do, then the passage you are reading is wrong and you have to work hard to find out. Only a person who is open to learn will do that. All the others will fight with you even when they contradict the nature, character, and attributes of God. They compromise the deity of God in order to hold on to their bias believes.
---Mark_V. on 8/11/11


---James_L on 8/9/11
Can you give me an example of an apostolic teaching which was expounded upon? It is to say that the apostles teaching were not clear?
help me with this
---francis on 8/10/11


There is only one Jesus but he has different ministries, earthly and heavenly.
Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
Paul preached Jesus according to the revelation of the mystery, this is Jesus in His heavenly ministry. This is the Jesus that is to be proclaimed in the dispensation of grace.
---michael_e on 8/10/11


//No. Church Father is a designation given to those who first expounded the apostolic teachings and courageously defended the faith against heretics.

It is useful to study what they wrote since some were successors of the Apostles themselves. Polycarp for one had as his mentor, the Apostle John.

Many of the cults - Mormons, Adventists, Jehovah's Witnesses do not study the writings of the church fathers since they teach that the church became corrupted after the death of the last Apostle and needed to be restored or reformed.

But how else can Joseph Smith, Charles Taze Russell, and Ellen White get people to believe in error if they had others study the writings of the church fathers?


---leej on 8/10/11


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All too often people that claim to follow Jesus simply point a system of rules or laws they follow.

What the Lord wants of His people is a relationship, not a system of ethical beliefs.
---leej on 8/10/11


Chria, I'm glad I was a part in helping to ease your mind. When things seems to contradict itself in the Bible just remember there's never a contradiction so it just means dig deeper & ask God to show you the real message. Who's talking?, Who are they talking to?, can this be a promise or instruction for me today? These are things I try to find out when reading the Bible. & of course I have a 73 yr old Daddy, who's been preaching for over 50 years, so that helps me a lot too!:-)))
---Reba on 8/10/11


\\You believe that Jesus was either lying, kidding or being deceitful when He wrote that He created the heaven and the earth in six days and commands us to remember that act by keeping the seventh day holy - as He did.\\

Inasmuch as the Logos was NOT known as Jesus until He was incarnate in the womb of the Virgin, please show me in the NEW TESTAMENT where Jesus said any of these things.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/10/11


Reba, again, thank you, and amen! MarkV, bless you. I appreciate your insights. I have not doubted so much as questioned what might seem to be a "contradiction". I do not believe the Word contradicts itself, so when it appears that something does not exactly line up, it must be my sight, or lack or it. Therefore, I ask questions, seek further understanding, to see what I might be missing.
---chria9396 on 8/10/11


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Cluny: "Leslie, I challenge you here to tell me SPECIFICALLY what I believe about Jesus and to tell me where I'm wrong." I'm not Leslie, but here's a few:

You believe that Jesus was evolved (with God's guidance) by mutations from lower life forms.

You believe that Jesus was wrong to believe in the universal flood of Noah and the "great fish" of Jonah.

You believe that Jesus was either lying, kidding or being deceitful when He wrote that He created the heaven and the earth in six days and commands us to remember that act by keeping the seventh day holy - as He did.
---jerry6593 on 8/10/11


Reba, I believe you gave great advice to Chria. I believe the reason many Christians have doubts because they see many who are not truly saved, fall away and never come back. So they are not sure. That is a problem genuine Christians incounter. What is happening around them. But God's Word says,
"...so that you are not lacking in any spiritual gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ, "who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the Day of our Lord Jesus Christ." God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord" (1 Cor. 1:7-9).
Every genuine believer is given the spiritual gifts as we wait for that Day.
---Mark_V. on 8/10/11


Chria, I see Luke 21,34-36 as a reminder to the saved to keep their focus on God rather than the cares of this world. It's easy to get caught up in life here & forget God altogether. Matt. 10:19-20 are more verses that lets us know that we're not going to be on our own during the bad times to come.( But when they deliver you up,take no thought how or what ye shall speak:for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.)I believe with all my heart that God will not allow His children to be deceived. He will protect them from believing the anti-Christ.
---Reba on 8/9/11


Reba, that is what I too have thought. joseph cited Luke 21:36 "36 Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man. This appears to be written to believers, so what is meant by escape, and able to stand.
The following has caused me to think that He will (guaranteed) cause us to stand:
2 Cor 1:21-22
"21 Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, 22 set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come."
---chria9396 on 8/9/11


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Chria, I do not believe the children of God can be deceived by an anti-Christ. The Holy Spirit living in us all will not allow that. Matt. 24:24
For there shall arise false Christ's, & false prophets, & shall shew great signs & wonders,insomuch that, IF IT WERE POSSIBLE,they shall deceive the very elect.... To me, IF IT WERE POSSIBLE, is the same as saying, It's not possible.
---Reba on 8/9/11


\\Who exactly are these " church fathers?"\\

Some of them are:
Tertullian
Irenaeus
Jerome
Athanasius
Clement of Alexandria
Justin Martyr
Ambrose
John Chrysostom
Polycarp
Origen
Ignatius of Antioch
Basil the Great

and others who lived in the first 4 centuries or so after Christ


\\Are any of the apostles "church fathers?"\\

No. Church Father is a designation given to those who first expounded the apostolic teachings and courageously defended the faith against heretics.
---James_L on 8/9/11


Francis, If this question was asked to me i donot know, yet i give you my answerr, if i talk about fallible churchfaters, then it is evident i'm not reffering to the APOSTLES, all the apostolic letters in the bible, Pauline letters , James, Johanite letters, Jude and Peter are infallible word of God.

Our ways of explaining sometimes are.
---andy3996 on 8/9/11


Who exactly are these " church fathers?"
Are any of the apostles " church fathers?"
---francis on 8/9/11


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Reva, michael e, amen.
joseph, "there has been only one Saviour biblically introduced to mankind.
However another will be revealed." Even when revealed, there of course, still will be only 1 true Lord and savior Jesus Christ. I agree ith all else, but wish to ask, given the need to pray etc, do you think it possible for the elect to be deceived? If so, would such deception cause one to loose their salvation?
---chria9396 on 8/9/11


The problem with MOST of you on this blog is that you are NOT truly saved. You think that all you have to do to know Jesus is love. Yes God is love, but love is NOT God. In other words God has other attrabutes besides love, but you don't want to hear that. God also says that we know Him if we OBEY Him, but MOST of you do NOT. I can tell that MOST of you have the wrong Jesus (God) which is IDOLATRY (worshiping FALSE gods).
---Leslie on 8/9/11


Thanks Michael, that 125 word limit we have prevented me from listing all I really wanted to:-))) There's lots of great verses like those to prove our point. Thanks for adding more of them. You can never go wrong in sharing the Word of God.
Isa.55:11-So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:It shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, & it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
---Reba on 8/9/11


The jesus which I follow is Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Therefore I am not carried about with divers and strange doctrines

I have no every day is holy doctrine
I have no eat what you want doctrine
I have no pitition the dead to pray for you doctrine

My Jesus is unchanging
---Francis on 8/9/11


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The TRUTH is that what Christians have been taught and have believed all their lives about Jesus Christ, is NOT Biblical and thus we follow a made-up Jesus Christ.
---Leslie on 8/9/11

I have no idea what you are talking about. You give no specifics about specific beliefs and no facts to corroborate your opinions.

I do not know what you know of Jonathan Bernis but I am shocked that you have read his material or even know of him. He is a Jewish Rabbi who believes in Jesus as Messiah and is president of Jewish Voice Ministries whose motto is "to the Jew first". He is a staunch advocate for the Jewish homeland and is the face of JVI on TV.

He teaches primarily to Jews who are opposed to Jesus as Messiah.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/9/11


\\By this you shall know that you are my disciples, that you LOVE ONE ANOTHER....\\
---Messenger_of_Jesus on 8/9/11


Very true. Jesus also made it clear that we should beware false teachers.

He never counted them as His disciples, and never hinted that we should love them.

Instead, He called them a brood of vipers, sepulchres full of dead mens' bones, told them they shut up the Kingdom of Heaven so that those who were entering could not go in.

He said we will know them by their fruits...

Self righteous hypocrites, always burdening the flock with commandments of men.

Leslie is a false teacher, and is not "one another" with me.
---James_L on 8/9/11


Reba on 8/9/11 permit me to add to your good comment with, Paul's gospel
1Cor 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand, 2 by which also ye are SAVED, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
---michael_e on 8/9/11


\\James L - I do NOT care what the early church fathers (like Martin Luther) had to say about Jesus. The reason being is because they remade Jesus to be who they wanted Him to be\\

Leaving aside the fact that Luther was NOT an early church father, how many of the early church fathers, such as John Chrysostom, Ignatius of Antioch, Irenaeus of Lyon, or Athanasius have you actually read?

My instincts (and they could be wrong) tell me you have not actually read any of them.

If I am mistaken, please tell mw how I am, and which ones you've read, and why they are wrong.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/9/11


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These books should help you to see who the REAL Jesus Christ is, and He may not be who you were taught about or believe in.
---Leslie on 8/8/11

I'm pretty open minded Leslie to listening...and later searching for scripture to verify a thing.
Anything coming from a self proclaimed Rabbi...makes my hair stand up a little. Christ being the only Rabbi.

Save us some book money and outline some of this Rabbi's foundational teachings to verify, I'll look and be open to search.
---Trav on 8/9/11


Leslie, when you said,

"The TRUTH is that what Christians have been taught and have believed all their lives about Jesus Christ, is NOT Biblical and "thus we" follow a made-up Jesus Christ."

Please do not include me in the "we" you quoted that follow a made-up Jesus Christ" My Lord is the True Begotten Son of God.
---Mark_V. on 8/9/11


1 Cor. 2:2- For I determined not to know anything among you, save Jesus Christ, & Him crucified.
Gal.1:8-9- But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have receive, let him be accursed.
(vs.12) For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
---Reba on 8/9/11


By this you shall know that you are my disciples, that you LOVE ONE ANOTHER....sounds like alot of bickering is going on here and judging too. Are you really MY people in doing this?
Signed Jesus.
---Messenger_of_Jesus on 8/9/11


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This is the real Jesus test?
Do you love the Lord your God with all of your heart, soul, mind.
Do you love your neighbor as yourself. Matt 22 37-40
This is the real Jesus test everything else is just trappings and not important.
---Scott1 on 8/9/11


\\As usual with MOST of you, even on this blog as with ALL others you have PROVEN that you do NOT know Jesus and are NOT saved and do NOT belong to God.\\
---Leslie on 8/9/11

There you have the purpose of this blog question.

Leslie once claimed that francis is the only other Christian on this website.

That declaration was retracted later, leaving only Leslie.


Leslie, how long is it going to be before you denounce this "rabbi" ?

As soon as someone comes along with another wind of doctrine that blows you around and tickles your ears, this rabbi will be an idolater too.

You still didn't answer my question. Have you turned form your sins or not?
---James_L on 8/9/11


Well . . . the twelve disciples who Jesus chose were fighting among themselves about "who would be the greatest" (Mark 9:34). Jesus did not tell them they were not following the real Jesus, but He had hope for them and kept feeding them.

So - - - I can see that my being mistaken, or wrong however, does not mean I am not with the real Jesus. But I can see I myself need to deal with things that keep me from sharing with Him like I could. My paranoid stupidity, for example, is not blessing and loving people, but cursing them with suspicion. Jesus wants me to keep having hope for others, not merely narcissistically putting others down, in comparison with me (2 Corinthians 10:12)!
---Bill_willa6989 on 8/9/11


BEFORE I KNEW ANYTHING about church history i met the Lord, so i follow Jesus.
all the early and late churchfathers made good points to be studied, neverthelesss they wher all human, and should not be equalised with the word of GOD.

compare whatever they said to the bible, keep teir good words and therst throw it away
PS (im talking about the canon books)
---andy3996 on 8/9/11


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I follow the real Jesus, you know the JEWISH Jesus. the one who kept the 7th day as the sabbath, are no unclean foods, and prayed to the father
---francis on 8/9/11


\\ I can speak this with 100% accuacy because what the Bible says, you say the exact oposite, and are NOT in line with the Bible.\\

Leslie, I challenge you here to tell me SPECIFICALLY what I believe about Jesus and to tell me where I'm wrong.

If you cannot, you are merely saying slander about me.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/9/11


As usual with MOST of you, even on this blog as with ALL others you have PROVEN that you do NOT know Jesus and are NOT saved and do NOT belong to God. I can speak this with 100% accuacy because what the Bible says, you say the exact oposite, and are NOT in line with the Bible. This statement is for James L, Cluny, & Mark V. - keep staying deceived and you will end up in Hell just as the devil wants you to.
---Leslie on 8/9/11


The TRUTH is that what Christians have been taught and have believed all their lives about Jesus Christ, is NOT Biblical and thus we follow a made-up Jesus Christ. I encourage you all to get the books I recommended, and see for yourself.
---Leslie on 8/9/11


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I follow the real Jesus Christ, he that says, "I am Alpha and Omega, Beginning and Ultimate, which from being, and which to being, and which coming, The Almighty. I am the First and the Last, he that lives and was dead, and here, I am alive for evermore, A-men, and have the keys of hell and of death. I call my own sheep by name, and lead them out. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give to them eternal life."
---Eloy on 8/9/11


"Are you following the REAL Jesus Christ,.....?"
Thus far there has been only one Saviour biblically introduced to mankind.
However another will be revealed. One "who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God, in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God."2Th 2:4
Therefore, "Watch and pray, lest you enter into temptation. [For] The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak." Mat 26:41
"Watch at all times, praying that you may have strength to 'escape' (shun or flee the origin, [both person and place], from which) all these things that will take place, and to stand before the Son of man." Luk 21:36
---joseph on 8/9/11


Leslie: Your discussion with Cluny reminds me of this story in the Bible:

Luk 18:10-13 Two men went up into the temple to pray, the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

Stay a repentant publican. God loves the repentant sinner.
---jerry6593 on 8/9/11


Leslie, when I read you blog, I did not think you were boasting. Making that mistake I was careful. But after hearing your answers, everyone's answers are correct except yours. You boast to the point of suggesting you know who is saved and who's not. There is many books which are helpful, and many very damaging for a beleiver. We know who is the Christ by revelation from the Father not someone's book. Jesus asked Peter,
"Who do you say that I am? Simone Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you but MY Father who is in heaven." ( Matthew 16:15-17 ).
---Mark_V. on 8/9/11


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Jesus Christ is just a real as you and me who get on these blogs. Some of the early fathers were killed or exiled. Many followed Christ and many didn't. Christ is alive and in heaven with His Father. He sent the Holy Spirit to be our comforter and to live inside all who are born again of the Spirit. My heart breaks for those who do not believe in Jesus Christ. His tomb is still empty today. budda is in his tomb, alla is in his tomb, mohammed is in his tomb or grave. So are the monkeys and hindu god, they are all dead in the grave. Jesus Christ is ALIVE.
---shira3877 on 8/9/11


\\I do NOT care what the early church fathers (like Martin Luther) had to say about Jesus.\\

Luther was NOT an early church father. Do you think the 1500's were EARLY?

\\ The reason being is because they remade Jesus to be who they wanted Him to be.\\

You NEVER do that, do you, Leslie?

\\Cluny...You have PROVEN time and time again on EVERY blog that you do NOT know Jesus at all and that you do NOT belong to God (are NOT Christians). \\

If you say that about me, that means I AM a Christian and DO belong to God.

\\You both think you do NOT have sin,\\

Now we know you're speaking from your real father, because I've NEVER said that, nor do I think it.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/8/11


Leslie,

Martin Luther was not an early church father. He lived about 1200-1300 years after the Fathers.

Also, you want evidence about you? It's all in your contradictions.

You said "because I am too sinful"

But I thought you repented of all your sins, Leslie. Turned from your wickedness and sin? That's what you tell others they must do to be saved, but you just admitted that you haven't done that.

Which is it, Leslie?

have you turned from your sins or not?

If you have, then you lied when you called yourself too sinful

If you haven't then you just exposed yourself as a hypocrite
---James_L on 8/8/11


James L - I do NOT care what the early church fathers (like Martin Luther) had to say about Jesus. The reason being is because they remade Jesus to be who they wanted Him to be. They were anti-semetic (anti Jew) and even hated Jews. Jesus was a Jew so for them to be like this would say that "I love Jesus, but hate Jesus, I serve Jesus but only if I can take the Jewishness out of Him". This is called IDOLATRY, because they had the WRONG Jesus. This is why I recommended the books that I did.
---Leslie on 8/8/11


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Cluny & James L - You have PROVEN time and time again on EVERY blog that you do NOT know Jesus at all and that you do NOT belong to God (are NOT Christians). The ONLY righteousness I have is found in Jesus Christ, I am not and will never be worthy enough for that title of righteous, because I am too sinful. You both think you do NOT have sin, and therefore PROVE you do NOT belong to God and are self-righteous, because you do not need Jesus.
---Leslie on 8/8/11


Pertaining to the Blog Question, there is a book by H. Wayne House titled "The Jesus Who Never Lived"

He does a decent job of aquainting someone with the heresies which were addressed by the early church, some of which have gained a following in recent times.

Another one is "Reading Scripture With The Church Fathers" by Christopher A. Hall. He aquainting one with eight theologians of the early church - Athanasius, Basil the Great, Ambrose and others


Much good content in both
---James_L on 8/8/11


The real Jesus says, "'Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.'" (Matthew 11:28-29) So, Jesus Himself says He is "gentle and lowly in heart". In His love, then, we have "the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (in 1 Peter 3:4) Paul says, "I labor in birth again until Christ is formed in you," in Galatians 4:19 > Jesus growing in us gives us rest and shares with us how He is pleasing to our Father and loves "all".
---Bill_willa6989 on 8/8/11


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