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Void The Law Through Faith

Romans 3:31: "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." What does it mean, "we establish the law"? Any examples or details of this 'law'?

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 ---Nana on 8/12/11
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Let me try a new angle
I love my wife and becouse I love my wife I will try to do the things she ask of me.
Not to make her love me , she does.Am I perfect in my love for her , no but i keep trying.
I love God . God ask me to show my love for him by keeping His comandments . Not to make Him love us He does.But becouse I love Him.
I will not keep them perfictly I cannot. If I do not try I show I do not love God, and am a lier if I say I do.
By there works ye shall know them
---dowanor on 8/20/11


1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ DIED FOR OUR SINS according to the scriptures,

Galatians 1:4 Who gave himself FOR OUR SINS ,

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation FOR OUR SINS:

1 John 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son [to be] the propitiation FOR OUR SINS.

It is imposible to miss the fact that Jesus DIED FOR OUR SINS

Isaiah 53:5 But he [was] wounded for our transgressions, [he was] bruised for our iniquities:
---Francis on 8/20/11


What did Jesus Say?

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Deal with it!
---jerry6593 on 8/21/11


Rhonda, what Most Excellent said to you was true. When you gave Matt. 5:19, it did not mean a believer would lose salvation, but would be called least in the kingdom of heaven. If someone goes around telling others to break the law, this passage is for him. But no one here has ever said that to anyone. Jesus was calling His disciples to a deeper more radical holiness than that of the Pharisees. Pharisaism had a tendency to soften the law's demands by forcusing only on external obedience. Jesus unpacts the full moral significance of the law, and shows that the righteousness the law calls for actually involves an internal conformity to the spirit of the law, rather then mere external compliance to the letter.
---Mark_V. on 8/21/11


If you were to say to a christian "you do not have to keep the law because we are justified by FAITH, saved by grace and not works of the law." They would agree.
Yet, if you were to say to the very same person, " you do not have to honour your father and mother, and your spouse is free to commit adultery (both commandments which are in the law) because we are justified by FAITH, saved by grace and not works of the law." would they agree with that?
---Francis on 8/21/11




Francis - John 14:21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.
---Audra on 8/21/11


BIBLE ANSWERS TO THE SEGS QUESTIONS ON 8/20/11

Behold, the woman caught in adultery, what does the law say?
Exodus 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Now, what did Christ say?
John 8:11 Jesus said unto her, go and sin no more.

Are you of the flesh or of the promise?
Galatians 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid:
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ,..But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
---francis on 8/21/11


No, francis!
The lord did not die because of these things!
He die and was resurrected in spite of these things.
For God so loved the world.

Behold, the woman caught in adultery, what does the law say?
Now, what did Christ say?

You decide who you will listen too.
Gal 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
Gal 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
Gal 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh, but he of the freewoman was by promise.

Now you can answer mark_v.
Are you of the flesh or of the promise?
---TheSeg on 8/20/11


How many christlike people who have faith in jesus actually make plans to:
1. worship other gods.
2. worship idols.
3. misuse God's name.
4. Not keep the Sabbath holy.
5. Dishonor our father & mother.
6. Murder.
7. Commit adultery.
8. Steal.
9. Lie.
10. Covet. because of their faith? It is not more christlike to say that because we have faith in Jesus that we will continue to obey his laws and not live in sin?
---Francis on 8/20/11


Rhonda, do not take what what someone else writes and put it to YOUR interpretation. That is low and underhanded. No matter how you look at it, IT IS WRONG to do (unchristian, ungodly, etc.).
*****

more excellent way

you are so very HIGH on yourself and your pious views ...are you going to send me to hell, call me unsaved, all in your "christian love" too

YOUR ACCUSATIONS are noted and so far OFF BASE I'm wondering just how delusional YOU really are??????

it's a blog SWEETIE get over yourself and stick to the topic and provide Scripture rather than waste a spot to get on your pulpit and tear up people because you don't AGREE with them
---Rhonda on 8/20/11




Francis - man was not condemned bec he did not observe the 10 commandments. Sin was in the world long BEFORE the law was given at Mt. Sinai.

Adam did NOT break the Jewish Sabbath, took God's name in vain, steal from his neighbor, dishonor his parents, etc. but for the simple case of disobedience not to eat the forbidden fruit.

Ro 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man (Adam), and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned

Ro 5:18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.

Jesus was sent to pay for our indebtedness that we may be justified by faith. Gal. 4:4-5
---leej on 8/20/11


Understanding that Jesus died because we
1. worshiped other gods.
2. worshiped idols.
3. misused God's name.
4. Did not keep the Sabbath holy.
5. Dishonored our father & mother.
6. Murdered.
7. Commited adultery.
8. Stole.
9. Lied.
10. Coveted, and we have faith In Jesus that we will be saved by His GRACE, do we then because of this faith continue to do the things which placed Jesus on the cross? That is what the question is. It is notwhether or not we have sinned in the past, it is do we CONTNUE to SIN that grace may abound.
Hebrews 12:1 let us lay the sin which doth so easily beset us
---francis on 8/20/11


Francis
Dont think because, Im saying I will not try!
I am saying you should not try. You should keep trying!
Please forgive me, because until now you have not kept it.
All you can say is I have tried or lie and say I have.
Again, please dont be offended, as you offend. (undies in a bunch!)
Truly Godly edification!
You believe what you will, ok!

If ye then be not able to do that thing which is least, why take ye thought for the rest?

How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?

Mat_16:25,Mar_8:35,Luk_9:24,Luk_17:33
---TheSeg on 8/19/11


Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel( NOT GENTILES) after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Those who accept the grace of God and the new covenant have the laws of God in their hearts, and they obey the laws of God, Those who have rejected the grace of God and his covenant do not have his laws in thier heart.

God decalres: Revelation 14:12 here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

the ONLY reason why there is so much resistance to the law of God is because people do not have it in their hearts
---Francis on 8/20/11


Rather than offer an opinion, see Barnes Notes:

Ver. 31. Do we then make void the law. Do we render it vain and useless, do we destroy its moral obligation, and do we prevent obedience to it, [by the doctrine of justification by faith]?

This was an objection which would naturally be made, and which has thousands of times been since made, that the doctrine of justification by faith tends to licentiousness.

The word law here, I understand as referring to the moral law, and not merely to the Old Testament.

we establish the law by the doctrine of justification by faith, by this scheme of treating men as righteous, the moral law is confirmed, its obligation is enforced, obedience to it is secured. end of quote
---leej on 8/19/11


While the Adventists believe God is very impressed with their effort to obey the 10 commandments, they ignore the scripture that tells us that the righteous must live by faith having appropriated the righteousness that is in Christ.

Romans 1:17 For in it (the gospel) the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, The righteous shall live by faith.

Gal. 3:11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for The righteous shall live by faith.

NO NO NO says the ignorant Adventist, one has to obey the 10 commandments to make God happy.
---leej on 8/19/11


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No? Like, I said most of, you!
Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?(you?)

For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?

What house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?

For verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place, and it shall remove, and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

Joh_14:2 if it were not so, I would have told you.
Joh_14:3

If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also

Joh_8:46
Peace.
---TheSeg on 8/19/11


Francis, you did a lot of talking but did not answer the question. Do you sin? Do you break God's law? Do you feed the hungry, are you willing to sell everything you have and give all to the poor to follow Christ? do you desire for things others have? Do you judge other brothers? So do you sin?
---Mark_V. on 8/19/11


Personally, I find the law so far be-on and above me.
So Holy, that for me to say I am going to even try, is in-itself a sin.
---TheSeg on 8/19/11

NO NO NO the sin is WHEN YOU DO NOT OBEY THE LAW.

What you aresaying is that you are not even going to try
1. not worshiping other gods.
2. not worshiping idols.
3. not misusing God's name.
4. Keeping the Sabbath holy.
5. Honoring your father & mother.
6. not murdering.
7. not commiting adultery.
8. not stealing.
9. not lying.
10. not coveting

1 Peter 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation,
---Francis on 8/19/11


You seem to love the law, ---Mark_V. on 8/19
THANK YOU
Psalms 119:165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.
Psalms 119:97 O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day.

Psalms 1:1 Blessed [is] the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

Psalms 1:2 But his delight [is] in the law of the LORD, and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

Psalms 1:3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season, his leaf also shall not wither, and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper
---Francis on 8/19/11


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I know to most of you, what this will sound like.
But, that's ok too.

To anyone who has tried to "as many will say" obey or do the law.
Personally, I find the law so far be-on and above me.
So Holy, that for me to say I am going to even try, is in-itself a sin.
Want me to try to explain it, no!

It suffices me to know because of this, I can find no fault in you.
Because I know, none of you can do it either.
In addition, if you do manage to keep even one bit of it, in a day.
Don't be so quick, to say see!
For I don't believe it was you, but your father.
Peace!
---TheSeg on 8/19/11


We are justified by faith in Jesus Christ and not by works, although works are a reflection of our faith.

James 2:17-18
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
---Jason on 8/19/11


I would suggest reading Romans: Grace, Truth, and Redemption by John MacArthur who is a very detailed Bible scholar. Our failure to uphold the Law with the flesh means we need faith in Jesus to fulfill the Law in His spirit. If you make the Law void and get rid of it you break Romans 6. In the first half of Romans there are 2 different people the "old man" aka the flesh and the spirit filled man that Jesus protects. Seriously read the book. I cannot descibe it clearly especially in 125 words.
---Scott1 on 8/19/11


You seem to love the law, and want to be under the law, ---Mark_V. on 8/19/11

If only you would pay attention. I am only responding to THE BLOG QUESTION. The blog question is about THE LAW, thus my responses are ABOUT THE LAW. Do you really desire that i respond about the cross or about grace to a question about THE LAW? In many blog people get off topic, why are you getting your undies in a bunch because I stay on topic?
---Francis on 8/19/11


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---Mark_V. on 8/19/11
The question is not whether or not we sin. the BIBLE/ WORD OF GOD declares that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God and that includes me. the questionis do we CONTINUE to
1. worship other gods.
2. worship idols.
3. misuse God's name.
4. Not keep the Sabbath holy.
5. Dishonor our father & mother.
6. Murder.
7. Commit adultery.
8. Steal.
9. Lie.
10. Covet. that grace may abound, or do we make void the law through faith?
---Francis on 8/19/11


Romans 3:31: "Do we then make void the law through faith?
In other words Do we then
1. worship other gods.
2. worship idols.
3. misuse God's name.
4. Not keep the Sabbath holy.
5. Dishonor our father & mother.
6. Murder.
7. Commit adultery.
8. Steal.
9. Lie.
10. Covet.through faith?

It is easy to speak of " LAW" in a generic term, but when we look at the commandments in the law something inside us should tell us that faith is no reason to worship false gods, lie, steal or dishonour our parents. We should ask, " If I am not free to dishonour my parents and worship false gods (which is the law), what does it mean that christ has abolished the law?"
---Francis on 8/18/11


why does the bible says this:
1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner, with such an one no not to eat.
3 of these laws are not part of the ten commandments and if a christian* does them, then we are not allowed to even share a meal with him.

Acts 15:20 abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
2 of these laws are not part of the ten commandments

time to ask a better question
WHAT DOES IT MEAN JESUS ABOLISHED THE LAW because here are more laws to obey
---Francis on 8/19/11


Francis, do you sin? very simple answer. The plank in your eye blinds you. You seem to love the law, and want to be under the law, then you will be condemned by the law, for you nor anyone else can keep all of the law. No salvation under the law. The Pharisees were the legalist in Jesus day and Jesus reserved His strongest criticism for them. The Pharisees believed that due to their status as children of Abraham, and their scrupulous adherence to the law, they were children of God. At the core it is a denial of the Gospel. You and others do the same thing, because you keep the Saturday Sabbath, and a scupulous adherence to the law, thinking because you do, you are children of God. But at the core it is a denial of the Gospel.
---Mark_V. on 8/19/11


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David: "I do not find that Paul's teachings are strange, what I find strange is the way in which you interpret Paul's teachings."

So true! Peter said:

2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

It is indeed strange how some believe that Paul's authority is greater than Jesus', and that Jesus' sacrifice gives them license to commit sin.
---jerry6593 on 8/19/11


1 John 3:4 for sin is the transgression of the law.
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is NOT justified by the works of the law, but by the FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST, But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found
1. worshipong other gods.
2. worshiping idols.
3. misusing God's name.
4. Not keepping the Sabbath holy.
5. Dishonoring our father & mother.
6. Murdering.
7. Committinf adultery.
8. Stealing.
9. Lying.
10. Covetting. [is] therefore Christ the minister of transgression of the law? God forbid

The bible says GOD FORBID who says the bible is wrong?
---francis on 8/18/11


1 John 3:4 for sin is the transgression of the law.
Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue to
1. worship other gods.
2. worship idols.
3. misuse God's name.
4. Not keep the Sabbath holy.
5. Dishonor our father & mother.
6. Murder.
7. Commit adultery.
8. Steal.
9. Lie.
10. Covet. that grace may abound?

WHO DARES GIVE A YES OR NO ANSWER!!
---francis on 8/18/11


1 John 3:4 for sin is the transgression of the law.

Romans 6:15 What then? shall we
1. worship other gods.
2. worship idols.
3. misuse God's name.
4. Not keep the Sabbath holy.
5. Dishonor our father & mother.
6. Murder.
7. Commit adultery.
8. Steal.
9. Lie.
10. Covet. , because we are not under the law, but under grace?

WHO DARES GIVE A YES OR NO ANSWER!!
---Francis on 8/18/11


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You find Paul's teachings strange is because you do not believe that God has already chosen those whom He will save.
---christan on 8/18/11

Christan
I do not find that Paul's teachings are strange, what I find strange is the way in which you interpret Paul's teachings.
---David on 8/18/11


David, there's nothing strange about Paul's teachings. It's your very own understanding that's strange to the Word of God.

Romans 2:6,7 merely refers to those whom God has chosen in Christ before the foundations of the world and not to any Tom, Dick or Harry - as found in your theology of salvation. You find Paul's teachings strange is because you do not believe that God has already chosen those whom He will save.

In the context of Paul's teachings throughout his epistles, Paul continues to remind the Christians how they are saved - by the sovereign grace of God through election. And if you cannot get pass this doctrine, Paul's teachings will always be strange to you.
---christan on 8/18/11


Be careful of words, expressions, word usage (semantics), and manners of speaking. The "human" languages used to express what is in scripture can only be BASICALLY accurate as to God's desires/will. The overall MESSAGE of scripture is that our spirit should be one of peace, truth, and justice.

Jesus did not "void" the law (doctrine of commandment sin), He CONQUERED/DESTROYED it for all who spiritually live inside His body. "TRUSTING faith" is "REST IN JESUS".

That old law is still God's standard of "PERFECTION", but only for those NOT IN JESUS.

Spirit-filled people have no need to be 'ordered' to do 'right'. Our "walk" in love is our prayer offering (Ephes.5:2).
---more_excellent_way on 8/18/11


"Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin." Romans 3:20
---christan on 8/17/11

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, [is] therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.


Being justified by Faith in Jesus does NOT MEAN WE CAN TRANGRESS THE LAW
---Francis on 8/18/11


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Hebrews 10:16 "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them,"

The law does not kill, not using it kills.
James 4:17 "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin."
Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"
There are no excuses like, 'nobody told me', 'can't afford the book', 'never heard'. It is in the mind and in the heart.
In particular, Paul says
Ephesians 6:2 "Honour thy father and mother, (which is the first commandment with promise,)"
---Nana on 8/18/11


THE TEN COMMANDMENTS
1. Do not worship other gods. 2. Do not worship idols.
3. Do not misuse God's name. 4. Keep the Sabbath holy.
5. Honor your father & mother.
6. Do not murder.
7. Do not commit adultery.
8. Do not steal.
9. Do not lie.
10. Do not covet
We keep the law of God not as a means of salvation, But because Christ has paid the penalty for our sin with his life, thus we who are made free from the penalty of sin, desire not to continue in sin, simply because grace abounds. Christ having died for our trangressions of the law (sin), how can we continue to live in trangressions of the law?

Romans 6:2 How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
---Francis on 8/18/11


"Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin." Romans 3:20
---christan on 8/17/11

Christan
If Paul was teaching what you believe he was teaching in this passage, why would Paul say what he said in (Romans 2:6-7)?
God will repay each person according to what they have done. To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

You must admit, this is a strange thing for Paul to teach, if he was teaching what you say he was teaching,
A teaching which goes against the very thing that Jesus Christ taught in(Matthew 19:17).
---David on 8/18/11


Francis, what you teach is legalism. Do you not see that? What you want others to do, you yourself cannot stop doing, sinning. All of you have a purpose for introducing the law, and that purpose is "Saturday Sabbath." you cannot introduce that unless you speak about the law. So you guys go on about someones else's sin but not your own sins. You don't want to talk about that. You know the Truth but you insist that everyone who is saved to be under the Law. The Law is very much in effect right now, it condemns those who are not in Christ. The law kills. There is no salvation under the law. Jesus said, to remove the plank in your eye before you judge the speck in your brothers. If you were sinless you would have a right, but you are not.
---Mark_V. on 8/18/11


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Lakesha, do you even know the difference between "the law" and "the law of faith" as taught by Paul in Romans 3 & 4? Both you and Francis are trying to establish "the law" in the flesh by yourselves and not by "faith". Scripture clearly declares:

"Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin." Romans 3:20

"So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God." Romans 8:8

Comprehend? Clearly, something is missing in your doctrine of salvation. And I do hope you know what it is. Because it is very glaring from your own confessions.
---christan on 8/17/11


only example i can offer is," when the judge say's how do You plea?" Plea Jesus!!! when the judge say's " You cannot do that " say "i just did!!!!" regardless of what He say's next ( provided it is not AQUITTAL ) say," the Kingdom of Heaven has now conquered You! resistance is futile! submit and conform!!!!"
---kevin5443 on 8/17/11


It saddens me deeply when I see how far man has joined satan in twisting God's Holy Word.

Paul tells us himself that keeping the law of God is profitable and that the doers of the law will be the ones justified. Paul himself tells us that keeping God's commandments are all that matters. So why is it that we can't see this?

I think we all have to be clear on what biblical faith is.
---Lakesha on 8/17/11
AMEN I THINK I WILL STOP POSTING ON THIS BLOG SINCE Lakesha has done such a great job
---Francis on 8/17/11


Rhonda, do not take what what someone else writes and put it to YOUR interpretation. That is low and underhanded. No matter how you look at it, IT IS WRONG to do (unchristian, ungodly, etc.).

Do not "ride my coat tails". If the other person thinks I'm wrong, let them deal with it, if the other person thinks I'm right, let them deal with it. Only YOUR BUSINESS is your own....and other people's business is THEIRS to handle. Do not put words in my moth. We're not to "UNDERSTAND" love, we're to "WALK in love" (Ephesians 5:2).
---more_excellent_way on 8/17/11


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francis, 1 Cor. does not refute what I said at all.
(v. 5:9 ) concerned a previous letter that Paul had written the church at Corinth instructing them to disassociate with the immoral (v.11, 2 Thess. 3:6-15) But evidently the church had misunderstood the advice in that letter and had stopped having contact with the unsaved in the world, while continuing to tolerate the sin of those in the church, which was more dangerous to the fellowship. God intends for us to be in the world as witnesses. Paul carifies his intention. He expected them to dissociate with all who said they were brothers in the Church, but had a consistent pattern of sin. Not even to eat with them. The meal was a sign of acceptance and fellowship in those days.
---Mark_V. on 8/17/11


francis 2: The idea here was that God judges the unsave outside the Church but the leaders should judge those inside the Church to keep unity in the Spirit. It did mean that those who judge the adulterers were not sinners themselves in some way or another, but to allow those who committed adultery and everyone knew in the Church would be to say that God allowed it. God does not want anyone to sin. Especailly in the Church which has His name. The spirit of the law should guides us and transform us. The letter of the law kills. They were told not to keep company with any one called a brother and did all those sins. It even says, "Therefore, put away from yourselves the evil person" quote from Deut. 17:7.
---Mark_V. on 8/17/11


Romans 13:9
"are SUMMED UP in this sentence, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

****
Amen

understanding LOVE is Gods Holy just and perfect 10 Commandments

first 4 of Gods Holy just and perfect 10 Commandments are love to God and last 6 love to neighbor

Matt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
---Rhonda on 8/17/11


It saddens me deeply when I see how far man has joined satan in twisting God's Holy Word.

Paul tells us himself that keeping the law of God is profitable and that the doers of the law will be the ones justified. Paul himself tells us that keeping God's commandments are all that matters. So why is it that we can't see this?

I think we all have to be clear on what biblical faith is.
---Lakesha on 8/17/11


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The adherence to the letter of the law to the exclusion of the spirit of the law. ---Mark_V. on 8/16/11

Well then, tell me this:
If a man is commiting adultery, how do you invoke THE SPIRIT OF THE LAW?
If a man is worshiping buddah how do you invoke THE SPIRIT OF THE LAW

What you are suggesting has been refuted in the bible:
1 corithinas 5, a man thinks that he doe snot have ot follow THE LETTER of the law by sleeping with his fathers wife.
RESULT: 1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner, with such an one no not to eat.
---Francis on 8/16/11


"Show me a man of faith who commits adultery...", how about King David, King Solomon, ---christan on 8/16/11

All repeneted of their sins.
now we have people claiming to be christians, men sleeping with men, touching and eating what is unclean, profaning the sabbath of God and will not even acknowledge their sin much less confess. They claim that these acts are no longer sin. Well tell me, when did God ever find sin acceptable, after His Son died because of sin? 1 corithians chapter 5
1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner, with such an one no not to eat.
---francis on 8/16/11


Francis: obeying God's law is the creature's duty to Him (which ALL have and will fail) and it will not be rewarded with eternal life. Eternal life is FAITH in Jesus Christ, and when you are Justified by Faith in Christ by God, you are now not guilty anymore.

David: if your cross-reference to the Word of God is the Thesaurus or Wikipedia or anything outside the Holy Bible, good for you. My cross-reference is:

"For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons, for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons." Hebrews 12:6-8
---christan on 8/16/11


Your theology is not one of grace but one of works or as God declares, ---christan on 8/16/11
Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

the ONLY way not to sin, to to OBEY/ Keep the law.
And you are either doing one or the other.
1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
---Francis on 8/16/11


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God will chastise (not punish) the Christian when they sin against Him, that is because He loves them.- Christan

Christan
If you check a Thesaurus you will see that to Chasten, means to punish.
You also say that God loves a Christian who sins against him, but that is not what Jesus taught in (John 14:21)
Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father.
---David on 8/16/11


"Thus we keep the Law, and we who are justified by Christ establish the law by not falling into sin" francis

Your theology is not one of grace but one of works or as God declares, "filthy rags". The Christian establishes the law through FAITH in Jesus Christ and not by "not falling into sin" Your theology fits what Paul was rebuking the Galatians,

"Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?" Gal3:3

And to answer your "Show me a man of faith who commits adultery...", how about King David, King Solomon, Hosea to name a few. Through their lives, we now know that salvation is by GRACE, and GRACE alone!
---christan on 8/16/11


francis, I cannot show you a Christian adulterer, stealer or lier, because I do not see the heart of others to know they are genuine Christians, but I can show you a sinner. You, me and everyone else. Sin is sin, no matter how you call it. What you teach is legalism, a heresy. The adherence to the letter of the law to the exclusion of the spirit of the law. Legalism normally arises as an overreaction against antinomianism. When this occurs, legalism introduces a tyranny over the people of God. The law for the Christian highlights our weakness so that we might seek the strength found in Christ. Here the law acts as a severe schoolmaster who drives us to Christ each day. Legalism distorts the law of God in the opposite drection to antinomianism.
---Mark_V. on 8/16/11


Show me a man of faith who commits adultery, steals, lies, covets, worship false gods, make graven images to worship, blasphems Gods name, profanes the sabbath, dishonour his parents or murders, eats blood, eat what is strangled, being a man lays with another man, or woman being a woman lays with a beast or woman
---francis on 8/16/11


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---christan Let me do you one better:
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ,..for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, [is] therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

Although we are NOT justified by the law, while we seek to be justified by Jesus the Christ we are NEVER allowed to SIN. Do you know what sin is?
1 John 3:4 sin is the transgression of the law.

Thus we keep the Law, and we who are justified by Christ establish the law by not falling into sin
---francis on 8/15/11


"Why would God punish you for breaking his Law, if you are under no law?" David

For the Christian, the punishment already fell on Jesus Christ at Calvary, who died for their sins. However, God will chastise (not punish) the Christian when they sin against Him, that is because He loves them. The chastisement serves to remind the Christian the vileness of sin. Though he continues to sin while he is alive in the flesh, God will never be send to hell on the account Christ's death and resurrection.

The unbeliever, they are not God's children as God does not love them and never adopted them as His sons. The fruit of the unbeliever is unbelief in God, and in their unbelief God will send them to hell.
---christan on 8/15/11


The law is not voided by our faith but made perfect in faith in Christ.
---Harold on 8/15/11


I've always seen that Christianity's 'bookness' (partisanship) interferes with the believer's thinking, but I have also become aware that BEING TOLD WHAT TO BELIEVE interferes with the believer's ability to READ what is right before their eyes....

Romans 13:9
"are SUMMED UP in this sentence, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
---more_excellent_way on 8/15/11


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It is a practice for those who have works to salvation to insist we are under the letter of the law, but we are under the Spirit of the law.
---Mark_V. on 8/14/11

Mark
Tell me, "Why would God punish you for breaking his Law, if you are under no law?"
---David on 8/15/11


Francis,

Scripture declares: "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin." Romans 3:20

God is not going to save the man for obeying His law. The law serves only one purpose, to declare that we have sin against Him, period.

The difference:
- The Christian repents because he is already saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. He does not repent because he's trying to be saved.
- Sadly what you are demonstrating is someone trying to establish his own righteousness outside that of Christ's righteousness.
- If you think you will be save for obeying the 10 commandments, then Christ died in vain - which is impossible.
---christan on 8/15/11


"What is the law of Moses?
It's not Gods list of do's, it's Gods list of Don'ts.
And why doesn't God want us to do these things?"
--David on 8/14/11

I do not think that the law is a list of 'Don'ts'.
Are judgement, mercy and faith in your list?
Christ refered to them as "the weightier matters of the law"
which ought to be done (Matt 23,23).
---Nana on 8/15/11


Christan, I completely agree with you.

"The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming-not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. If it could, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins, because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins" ( Heb. 10:1-4 ).

It is a practice for those who have works to salvation to insist we are under the letter of the law, but we are under the Spirit of the law.
---Mark_V. on 8/14/11


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They establish the law "by the law of faith - repentance toward God, ---christan on 8/13/11
Do they ever have to repent from any of these?
1: Worshiping other gods
2: Making graven images to worship
3: Taking Gods, name in vain
4: profaning the Sabbath
5: Dishonouring parents
6: Killing
7: Stealing
8" Lying
9: Committing adultery
10: Coveting
---Francis on 8/13/11


What does it mean, "we establish the law"?

Nana
What is the law of Moses?
It's not Gods list of do's, it's Gods list of Don'ts.
And why doesn't God want us to do these things?
It's because they are seen as evil, and they do not please God when we do them.

Why does a man do those things which please them, but they do not please God?
It's because they love themselves, more.... than they love God.
When a man loves God more than they love themselves, they will do what pleases God, and this is how the Law is established.
---David on 8/14/11


"Or do they establish the law by not doing the above?" Francis

They establish the law "by the law of faith - repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."

You seem to be so obsess in trying to fulfill the law instead of concentrating on the "law of faith" . The law cannot save you!

According to Paul, "For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do." Does the Christian continue to sin willfully? God forbid! He struggles on, and "delight in the law of God after the inward man"
---christan on 8/13/11


big deception 10 commandments do not apply and it's "just love" ...gross contradiction of James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law (LOVE), and yet offend in one (LOVE) point, he is guilty of all (LOVE)

absurd and foolish to follow lying false ministers teachings that the whole law is "love" ...the impossibility the whole law is "love" yet OFFEND in "one love point" one would would be guilty of all loves

to read the law through the LIE makes it absurd ...idea of man is simply unsupported by Holy Scripture

KNOWING Gods holy just perfect spiritual law IS the 10 commandments to offend in one point (of the ten) one is guilty of breaking ALL TEN
---Rhonda on 8/13/11


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The "Ten Commandments" will always be in existence, but they do not apply to "JESUS WORSHIPERS" (they are not "VOID", but are ESTABLISHED/"written" in our hearts, Jeremiah 31:33, the "law within") and summed up as LOVE.
---more_excellent_way on 8/13/11

HHMM so jesus followrs are free to:
1: Worship other gods
2: Make graven images to worship
3: Take Gods, name in vain
4: profane the Sabbath
5: Dishonour parents
6: Kill
7: Steal
8" Lie
9: COmmit adultery
10: Covet

Or do they establish the law by not doing the above?
---francis on 8/13/11


Bible translators always used their own words.

God is very specific in the words that He uses.

Jesus did not come to earth for the SPECIFIC PURPOSE of abolishing the law. ONE thing done FOR US was..."abolishing the law", Ephes.2:15.

The ancient Jews had a law that "commandments" and rules/ordinances must be observed. For us, the 'JESUS worshiper', that law does not apply, the "law of liberty" does (James 1:25 and 2:12).

The "Ten Commandments" will always be in existence, but they do not apply to "JESUS WORSHIPERS" (they are not "VOID", but are ESTABLISHED/"written" in our hearts, Jeremiah 31:33, the "law within") and summed up as LOVE.
---more_excellent_way on 8/13/11


We are indeed dead to sin.
So, why do so many on here continue to use the sin in the law passed down to Israel, whom even God said was a hard hearted and gainsaying people?
But of His children, He says we have the righteousness of Christ.
So, how can we sin any longer who are indeed dead to sin?
Do we not have the His Spirit guiding us into all truth?
It is interesting to take note how those who push law, law, law rarely push Christ, Christ, Christ...
The ratio between commandment/law and Christ/grace in their posts is astounding.
---micha9344 on 8/13/11


MarkV, Josef, AMEN!!!

Rom 3:27 "Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith."
---Chria9396 on 8/13/11


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A Christian (who's saved by grace through faith in Christ), the law of God (His wrath) fell on Christ who died for the sins of His people. The law had only one demand from the sinner and it must be satisfied,

"For the wages of sin is death" Romans 6:23

"Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed." 1 Peter 2:24

"but by the law of faith", "we establish the law." Romans 3:27,31

"But without faith it is impossible to please him" Hebrews 11:6

Question: How then does one acquire this faith that pleases God?
---christan on 8/13/11


Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God,
Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? Romans 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Those of faith do not kill, steal, commit adultery, covet, lie, dishonour parents, worship false gods, make graven images, blasphem God's name, profane the sabbath. Thus, establishing the law.
---francis on 8/13/11


Josef, that was a great answer you gave. I completely agree with you. Salvation by grace through faith does not denigrate the law, but underscores its true importance.
1. It provides a payment for the penalty of death which the law required for failing to keep it.
2. by fulfilling the law's original purpose, which is to serve as a tutor to show mankinds utter inability to obey God's righteous demands and to drive people to Christ (Gal. 3:24).
---Mark_V. on 8/13/11


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