ChristiaNet MallWorld's Largest Christian MallChristian BlogsFree Bible QuizzesFree Ecards and Free Greeting CardsLoans, Debt, Business and Insurance Articles

Made Holy By Our Faith

Do you believe that we are made holy by our faith in Christ Jesus and the action of the Holy Spirit in our lives?

Join Our Free Penpals and Take The Faith Bible Quiz
 ---Cluny on 8/14/11
     Helpful Blog Vote (4)

Post a New Blog



MarkV, if you care to re-read Romans 1 and 2 you will se long before the Law of Moses man had the moral law in their conscience. If you say it is teh Law of Moses in their conscience. show where all from Adam to Moses KEPT THE SABBATH on Saturday!

We also see people NOT CHRISTIANS who know it is wrong to steal, murder, etc.

MarkV would havve you all believe God created man to be no different than an animal. Animals have no conscience.

God created man ABOVE that of an animal.

God will judge those b/4 the Law of Moses by their conscience. If a man says, hay, you stole my horse...WALLA, He knows what stealing is.
---kathr4453 on 8/23/11


If they were not in sin for breaking the law, why would they need salvation? Just rediculous. MarkV///

Tell me MarkV, was Job under the LAW of Moses? NO! Yet He knew that his REDEEMER liveth correct. Was Adam or Eve or Abel under the LAW of Moses ? NO, yet they sacrificed didn't they? WHY?

Romans 7 is addressing those under the LAW. He already addressed SIN in Romans 6.
---kathr4453 on 8/23/11


It just amazes me that many Christians dont understand or know what sin is, much less what Christ did for all men.

The truth will set you free but seems very few find it.
---duane on 8/23/11


Kathr,

Romans 1

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against...men who suppress the truth

19 that which is known about God is evident within them,

20 His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood

21 they knew God, did not honor Him

22 they became fools,

23 exchanged the glory of...God for an image

24 God gave them over

25 exchanged the truth of God for a lie,

26 God gave them over to degrading passions

27 men abandoned the natural function

28 they did not...acknowledge God any longer

29 being filled with all unrighteousness


Is this referring to a believer, who can lose his salvation?
---James_L on 8/23/11


JamesL, the way I see it is to read Romans 5. From Adam to Moses God did not impute sin, because there was no law, HOWEVER, death still reigned from Adam to Moses. In Adam all DIE.

We know many infants are born sick, and some die the first week or month. That's due to SIN.

However when it comes to HOW God will deal with the soul of an infant I will leave to Him. I can't find the verse now, but I believe David made a statement that one day he would see his som the Lord took away from him and Bathsheba. But as far as being SINLESS, NO JamesL. The ONLY one born SINLESS was Jesus Christ. If you take away the doctrine of original sin, you take away the heart of the Gospel, and why Jesus died for us. Hebrews 2.
---kathr4453 on 8/23/11




Kathr, you cannot grasp the reveal Truth. It matters not that the Gentles were not under the law given to Israel, they were nevertheless sinners, in rebellion against God's law. If they were not in sin for breaking the law, why would they need salvation? Just rediculous. You said,
"the law is in our conscience" Yes, if you realize there is a law. Only Christians have the law in their conscience. For the Spirit speaks to our conscience. That's how we realize we are breaking the law. That's why God has to bring repentance by convicting us of sin. "God may perhaps grant that they will repent and come to know the Truth, and they may escape from the snare of the devil, after bing captured by him to do his will"
---Mark_V. on 8/23/11


Yes, there is some fancy dancing going on, even 'time warping'! Exodus 20:4_5 have been superceded
long time ago.

Ezekiel 18:20 "The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him."
Just as in Christ, the 'understanding' of adultery started to also include the lusting of the heart as the offence itself.
Ezekiel 18:20 compares alike to 1 John 3:7.
---Nana on 8/23/11


Kathr 2,
If babies are sinful, there are several ramifications.

Dead babies would go to hell.

If a sinful baby goes to heaven, then apparently there is another way besides faith in Christ.

Romans 1-2 show that man is without excuse. You nullify that if babies are hell-bound because of Adam.

God would be creating spiritually dead beings.

Jesus would be a sinner, being related to Adam.

You have to mysticize these difficulties to try to harmonize them.

Well, every person but Jesus was born sinful. Where is that in scripture?
Well, there is an age of accountability. Show it to me.
Well, we just have to leave it up to God's grace for babies. BCV, please?

Dancing.
---James_L on 8/22/11


Kathr,
yes, you do have to do some pretty fancy dancing around the issue.

First, you agree with scripture that there is a distinction between the spirit and the flesh.

But then you start to blur the distinction when you say we are spiritually dead because of Adam.

Adam was the only one directly formed out of dust. Everyone else has been procreated. Even Jesus, in His flesh.

If a spiritual condition is passed to us because of a physical relation to Adam, then Jesus would've been born spiritually dead - He is a physical descdendant of Adam.

Babies are born sinless in spirit. If not, then God makes sinful spirits because Each One is made from God (Eccl 12:7, Job 33:4)
---James_L on 8/22/11


Darlene is right. A soul is made holy by completely obeying God: for there is no bond nor covenant with holiness whenever the soul is in disobedience: either a soul is in Christ and Christ in the soul, or else a soul is without Christ and is none of his.
---Eloy on 8/22/11




MarkV, I'm not sure what you mean here 1st comment. Isn't that speculation? You don't know that for a fact. The Moral law is our conscience, and doesn't need to be made aware to anyone. However teh BLOOD of Christ has PURGED our conscience of dead works to serv the living God once we are saved.

But I agree with the rest of your statement. We do have a sin nature. When Christ comes in to indwell us we then have two natures at war with one another. Our flesh will always be at war with our spirit. Paul, after coming to Christ realized his flesh, regardless of how well he kept the law was sinful, and dwelleth no good thing, and can never please God. THAT's how you know someone is saved.
---kathr4453 on 8/22/11


MarkV, read Romans 7 from the beginning to really understand the whole of it and the conclusion of it. To read the conclusion alone takes it all out of context. Paul is talking about TWO issues here. 1) the LAW, and 2) Sin.

Those under th Law had to be delivered from TWO issues, 1) the Law, and 2 SIN. Since Gentiles were never under, or in bondage to the LAW to begin with, I beieve this is why so many have a hard time grasping what Paul is saying.

Paul is addressing those under the LAW in Romans 7.

You also see how many gentiles what to go and live under the LAW now that their saved...right. You can't live under the Law and GRACE at the same time. I believe this is what Paul is addressing, before going on to Romans 8.
---kathr4453 on 8/22/11


Kathr, the passage I presented of Paul was what he felt before the moral law was made aware to him. And what he found out after he knew the law. Read my responses. All descendants of Adam are fallen. He was our representative. When people are born, even though they have not sinned yet, they have a sinful nature. A fallen nature. They are in fact spiritually dead to the things of God. What the Bible calls born in sin, flesh, Carnal, the natural man. And as soon as he is born he can only react to his nature.
"Therefore as sin came into the world through one man (Adam) and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned" Rom. 5:12.
---Mark_V. on 8/22/11


You cannot reconcile your beliefs with these difficulties using scripture. You have to some pretty fancy dancing
---James_L on 8/22/11

Not at all.

Exod 20:4-5 describes that the father's iniquity is visited on the children, to the third and fourth generations.

This establishes a chain of transaction for iniquity, from father to child, and from Adam to us through our fathers.

As we know, Jesus had no earthly father. Therefore, he could be born sinless bypassing the chain of iniquity.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/22/11


JamesL, this is what I believe Paul meant, something like what Jesus said:

"If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sinIf I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father. John 15:22, 24

In other words the effect of Jesus coming, his words and his works, in effect exposed the depth of their sins, making them without excuse. Of course they were sinners all along,not realizing the depth of their sin.
This was Paul's state of mind as well. Paul was never apart from the LAW. No Jew was. He's not making a LITERAL statement, anymore than Jesus stating anyone was without sin.
---kathr4453 on 8/22/11


The Last Adam was not born sinful. Jesus is GOD IN THE FLESH, without sin.

You cannot compare Jesus to a newborn. Mark_Eaton understands this. And no one has to dance around it.

Jesus is the perfect spotless sinless lamb of God who alone takes away the sin of the world.

Jesus is also the first born of the NEW CREATION.


JAmesL. you don't believe babies are sinless do you?

David said "I was altogether born in iniquity". He was not saying his mother was a ho.
---kathr4453 on 8/22/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Online Marketing


Kathr,
Paul speaks of When The Commandment Came in Rom 7. Do you think Paul was killed centuries earlier at Mount Sinai when the tablets came to Moses?

I agree that Mark V is way off base when he says that Paul only REALIZED he was dead.

Questions for you:
If a baby is born sinful, was his spirit procreated, or did God make him sinful?

If a baby is born sinful, then do dead babies go to hell, or is there another way to God besides faith in Christ?

If babies are born sinful, then do you believe Jesus was born sinful?

You cannot reconcile your beliefs with these difficulties using scripture. You have to some pretty fancy dancing
---James_L on 8/22/11


James 3: All unbelievers are in the same boat. They do not see their sin.markV///

I totaly disagree here MarkV. Paul tells us in Phil 3 he saw himself BLAMELESS. That's because he felt he kept the LAW perfectly. Unbelievers do not see themselves as blameless. Paul is telling us in Romans 7 that once he came to know Christ/ the Cross/ etc, that we read his testiminy in Phil 3.


So both you and James L are taking Romans 7 out of context.

Nineveh KNEW they were sinners and repented. But by what LAW pointed them to their sin? The Law of Moses? NO, the Law of their CONSCIENCE.

You fail to realize God gave all mankind a conscience. All men were not born with a seered conscience.
---kathr4453 on 8/22/11


James 3: All unbelievers are in the same boat. They do not see their sin. When the law is understood by them they too will be aroused and find that they are spirituall dead also. They are under the law. Condemned already. No sentence yet has been given since many will be evangelized and will come to the knowledge of Jesus Christ and will be given a new heart to percieve, and know that they also are in sin, rebelling against God. Right now, like Paul, they don't see their sin. They love their sin. That is why when we preach the gospel, we need to tell them of their rebellion. And when they see the law, they will also like Paul repent if they have been given faith.
---Mark_V. on 8/22/11


If in fact a new born baby is sinless, then God didn't need to be made flesh. any new born baby would have been a pefect sinless sacrifice.
---kathr4453 on 8/21/11

Yes, Thank you.

I have been looking for a way to describe just what you have said.

You have no clue how many times I have argued this point to BELIEVERS. The Bible is clear, yet nobody wants to believe this. It goes against their thinking of a "loving" God. Yet Scripture is clear "There is None Righteous, Not one".

When I finally came to this understanding, I finally understood how important it was to witness to others.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/22/11


Read These Insightful Articles About VoIP Service


James L, I disagree that Paul was saying he was spirituall alive before he sinned.
(v. 7:8) of Romans "Opportunity by the commandment" here the word "opportunity" describes a starting point or base of operation for an expedition. Sin uses the specific requirements of the law as a base of operation from which to launch it's evil work. Confronted by God's law, the sinner's rebellious nature finds the forbidden thing more attrative, not because it is inherently attractive, but because it furnishes an opportunity to assert one's self-will. "Sin was dead" Not lifeless or nonexistent (v. 5:12,13) but dormant. When the law comes, sin becomes fully active and overwhelms the sinner.
---Mark_V. on 8/22/11


James 2: Paul did not recognized his sin until the law came. "When the commandment came" he began to understand the true requirements of God's moral law. "Sin revived" He realized his true condition as a desperately wicked sinner (1 Tim. 1:15). "I died" He realized his deadness, spiritually, that all his religious credentials and accomplishments were rubbish (Phil. 3:7,8). "Sin deceived me" By leading him to expect life from his keeping the law, when what he found was death (v.10), and by convincing him that he is acceptable to God because of his own merit and good works. The law reveals, arouses, and condemns sin, bringing death to the sinner.
---Mark_V. on 8/22/11


Blogmeister said "I am dead to sin, and the old man was buried in Baptism. What came up out of the water was that new creation.

And James_L said "But when we die, we put off our flesh, and the only thing left is a perfect, sinless spirit."

Both true.

And Rom 11:16 says "For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy, and if the root is holy, so are the branches."

It is Christ in us that makes us holy. Our old man is dead/crucified and we are now a new creation in Christ Jesus.
---Haz27 on 8/20/11


Do you believe that we are made holy by our faith in Christ Jesus and the action of the Holy Spirit in our lives?

Yes essential that is true even from the very beginning of our spiritual birth.

However if you have only religion you would probably beleive obedience to laws, especially selected OT laws or bead rattling, religious ordinaces or rituals, the Eucharist, kissing the feet of plastic statues, prayers to dead people, etc.is what makes one holy.
---leej on 8/20/11


Locate Education Jobs


StrongAxe,

I agree, but Adam was the only person to be directly created by God in both spirit and flesh.

We are only "in Adam" according to the flesh. Spirits are not pro-created, so we cannot be spiritually in Adam. God creates each spirit, and He does not create sinful spirits.

The reason we will all die physically is that we all share Adam's flesh.

The reason we all die spiritually is that we commit sin. Paul said in Rom 7:9 "I was once alive apart from the Law, but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died.

He didn't mean he died physically, right? Corpses don't write scipture. He said that he died spiritually when sin became alive. He was spiritually alive before that
---James_L on 8/20/11


I have to wonder if we are getting the whole of it.

I believe it all has to do with your understanding of original sin. If in fact a nrew born baby is sinless, then God didn't need to be made flesh. any new born baby would have been a pefect sinless sacrifice.

Q2: was Adam & Eve born with the capasity to sin?

Q3: Will anyone in the NEW Heaven and earth be able to sin? God said in the New Heven and eaarth no evil will be allowed in.

Q4: What will you be or have in the NEW heaven and earth. Will you be exactly as Adam & Eve b4 the fall, or a totally NEW CREATURE, given a position HIGHER than the Angels?

Hebrews 2
---kathr4453 on 8/21/11


The fact is, Adam & Eve were never made HOLY as He is Holy. They were made out of the dust of the earth. Creatures made below the angels. Even if they never sinned, they would always be lowly creatures positioned below the Angels.

However, as a New Creature IN CHRIST, a NEW MAN is made, This NEW MAN will not only be Glorified together with Christ, but Joint heirs with Christ. AND eternally positioned ABOVE the Angels IN CHRIST.

This was NEVER promised to Adam & Eve, or even earthly Israel.

This is the Mystery of the Church, the BODY of Christ.
---kathr4453 on 8/21/11


Cluny, we are been made holy through Sanctification by the Holy Spirit through faith in Jesus Christ. Regeneration is a transformation, metamorphsis. Rebirth is the beginning of the Christian life. To all believers,

"But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life" ( Titus 3:4-7 ).
---Mark_V. on 8/20/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Settlements


Matthew 19:17: "And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments."

Is not that about as old as mankind itself?

Genesis 4:7 "If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door..."

Personal understanding:

1) Adam was never inmortal (... and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:...)
2) Spiritual or physical death from Adam?

a) Ezek. 3
---Nana on 8/20/11


James_L:

Adam started with a perfect body capable of immortality. The reason his body became mortal and imperfect was NOT because of any defect in his flesh, but because of sin (which is a spiritual thing, and not a physical thing). THAT is what we inherited from Adam. We are all spiritually dead until Jesus gives us life.
---StrongAxe on 8/20/11


" What is your term for the fallen nature of man?"
I know that this question was not addressed to me, forgive my intrusion. This is not to answer for Cluny, but since I believe as Cluny does, as concerning the so called "sin nature" of man, I will answer.
The term I use "for the fallen nature of man" is 'carnal,' as in dictated to, led by, and dependent upon the senses, their perceptions, and the deceptive knowledge gain thereby. Paul referred to it as "carnal, 'sold under sin'."
The sin of man abides in the carnality of his thinking, as opposed to the flesh of his physical body. The body is not sinful, man is.
---joseph on 8/20/11


StrongAxe,

In reference to your question to Cluny,

When you say "fallen nature" are you talking about the flesh or the spirit, or the whole man?

Scipture says that we are guilty in Adam regarding our flesh, and that we will all die because of it.

Scipture also says that we die spiritually on our own, and there is no hint that we are spiritually guilty of Adam's sin.
---James_L on 8/19/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Internet Services


Cluny:

Protestants call it "sin nature". Catholics call it "original sin". What is your term for the fallen nature of man?
---StrongAxe on 8/19/11


Kathr,

I worded that comment wrong, as if it includes everyone. I meant "most" not "all".

I agree with your use of "sin nature" but you do not use it the way I've typically encountered.

Most confuse the spirit and the flesh.

you've heard people say "we're not perfect"

They see our righteousness as only imputed, and not an actuality. That's why the RCC doctrine of Purgatory. They believe that after we die, we still have sin.

But when we die, we put off our flesh, and the only thing left is a perfect, sinless spirit.

That's why absent from the body is present with the Lord.

That's why I don't say "sin nature" I say spirit and flseh
---James_L on 8/19/11


Those that use the term "sin nature" also reject the biblical concept of being sinless in spirit yet sinful in flesh.

---James_L on 8/18/11

JamesL i'm not sure I agree with that comment. Those who use SIN NATURE, understand that in our flesh dwells no good thing, and never will. Romans 7. Paul said: WHO will deliver me from teh BODY OF THIS DEATH? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Paul again states, I AM Crucified with Christ, it is no longer I but Christ who dwells in me, and teh Life that I NOW live in the Flesh, I live by faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me.



---kathr4453 on 8/19/11


\\So when someone talks about their sin nature they are referring to "the flesh", "the old man", and our history in Adam 1.\\
---kathr4453 on 8/18/11


Most who use the term "sin nature" say that we got our sin nature from Adam, but then they turn right around and say that we are all born SPIRITUALLY dead because of Adam.

They are clearly not using the term relating only to our flesh.

Those that use the term "sin nature" also reject the biblical concept of being sinless in spirit yet sinful in flesh.

The flesh and spirit are utterly confused by the term. Spiritual death and new birth are misunderstood, and the confused get further confused.
---James_L on 8/18/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Online Stores


"Sin nature" is an unbiblical term. Isn't that problem enough with it?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/18/11


Cluny, while 2nd Peter 1 tells us by faith we [artake of HIS DIVINE NATURE, it is completely within scripture to acknowledge our old adam flesh as SIN NATURE .

I really don't
know what the problem is here. Of coarse our natural inclination is to sin, and the inclination of Christ in us is NO SIN.
---kathr4453 on 8/18/11


2 Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature (strongs 5449) having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Ephesians 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature (strongs 5449)) the children of wrath, even as others
Rom 2:14
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature (strongs 54490 the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
---kathr4453 on 8/18/11


BLOGMESITER 8/14/11 -----
There no way God saves everybody, That would be nice God saves the world yes, but not the whole human race, If that was so why put the word Hell in the Bible at ALL?

MATTHEW 7,14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there find it.

( He does not even save all the people in the churches - Wheat and tares,The tares are burn,)

MATTHEW 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me LORD,LORD shall enter into the kingdom of heaven:but he that doeth the will of my father which is in heaven,

REVELATION 20:15 And whosever not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire,
---RICHARDC on 8/18/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Business Training


The Christian becomes holy only on the account of God's sovereign election of grace in Jesus Christ. This is because God already loved the sinner before the foundations of the world.

---christan on 8/17

That is absolute FALSE teaching. Unfortunately Calvin never led these poor creatures to Calvary. We, have been chosen to BE HOLY AMD BLAMELESS. The ONLY way that can happen is when one identifies with Jesus death and resurrection life VIA The Cross. We were Chosen to follow Jesus in death and resurrection.

Just as Israel misunderstood their "election", so do these who ALSO stumble at the Cross. This is what Israel stumbled at...
---kathr4453 on 8/18/11


"...for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin" Romans 3:9, "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" Romans 5:12

Even after Scripture declares that we are born in sin, only the fools will deny that the man is not born with a sinful nature after Adam and Eve disobedience toward God.

And if we are not born "dead in sin and trespasses", why does the Holy Spirit even bother to regenerate the sinner. Which then makes Christ's sacrifice at Calvary for the sins of His people nothing but a big joke.
---christan on 8/18/11


Christan, let's not forget TOO Acts tells us the Holy Spirit is given to THOSE WHO OBEY!!!

So, do you even KNOW what it is YOU have to OBEY to receive the Holy Spirit?

Oh that's right, YOU don't have to obey either right...that would be considered a WORK.
---kathr4453 on 8/18/11


\\Sin nature isn't found in scripture either, but we do see Flesh VS Spirit, Old man vs New Man.

So when someone talks about their sin nature they are referring to "the flesh", "the old man", and our history in Adam 1.\\

Then why not use the Biblical terms, as opposed to traditions and precepts of men, like "sin nature," which only confuse the issue?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/18/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Software


Cluny,

You have attempted to boil down the entire teaching of the Epistles into a single sentence.

While doing so will never satisy everyone, based upon what I know of Scripture, I think you have correctly captured the essence of entire message.

While your message is simple, I think this verse describes it correctly and simply:

2 Cor 5:21 "For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him"
---Mark_Eaton on 8/18/11


Sin nature isn't found in scripture either, but we do see Flesh VS Spirit, Old man vs New Man.

So when someone talks about their sin nature they are referring to "the flesh", "the old man", and our history in Adam 1.

That history ended at the Cross. We are now a NEW CREATURE in Christ. Jesus dosn't restore the old man or the flesh. Those who ARE Christs HAVE Crucified the Flesh.
Romans 8 says we are no longer in the flesh but in the Spirit if we are Christs. Being IN CHRIST only makes one Holy.

We (the Church/ AKA SAINTS are the HOLY Temple of God, sealed with the Holy Spirit.
---kathr4453 on 8/18/11


"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will" Ephesians 2:4,5

The Christian becomes holy only on the account of God's sovereign election of grace in Jesus Christ. This is because God already loved the sinner before the foundations of the world.

As he is born of the Holy Spirit, the spirit man is now Holy. And not everyone is born of the Holy Spirit. As he still is alive in the flesh (which is worthless before God), begins a great struggle of sin between the flesh and the spirit - the soul is sanctified.
---christan on 8/17/11


Blogmeiser,you said,"true we still have temptations, but we are called to overcome them". That's what I'm saying. If the old man is dead,as in DEAD, No longer a part of life, there's no temptation. Because the dead are not tempted in any way, shape or form. However, dead. as in--inactive, that's the difference. Because of Christ we have a choice. We are no longer a slave to the old ways. To say that the old man is dead in the sense that you are never tempted would be to say you are as sinless as Christ. To me dead means inactive. I no longer live in sin.
This is all I have to say about this subject.
---Reba on 8/17/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Advertising


Cluny, there's many words Christians use that were conjured up. Many mean good, but sometimes they just don't, when other passages speak against what they conjured up. To say, "personal Savior" really means to have a personal relationship with Christ, where before you never had, like a personal relationshipe with your wife, and the Bible does tell us we are now married to Him. To say, accept Christ" is to tell someone they have a choice, if they have faith then confess that faith towards Christ. If they don't, they shouldn't because if they do, their hearts were never turned towards Christ. The Trinity isn't found in the Bible but we know what it means because of the many passages that speak on the Deity of God.
---Mark_V. on 8/17/11


Reba said: "...The old man will remain-- meaning the sin nature is always going to be there... The old man is dead--meaning we have victory over death, hell & the grave..."

Reba, you can't have it both ways, either the old man is dead or he is alive. If he is dead, then we are a new man. True, we still have temptations, but we are called to overcome them.

However, if the old man is alive, and still with us, then we are lost, because we are called to be perfect, as our heavenly Father is perfect.

Which do you want? Personally, I am dead to sin, and the old man was buried in Baptism. What came up out of the water was that new creation.
---Blogmeister on 8/17/11


Reba...Sure i feel convicted when i sin. We have a built in sin alarm if we are belivers.I agree with you in that i also go to the Father and tell Him that i have sinned against Him, but i thank Him for the Gift of His Son who paid the price for that sin. Being justified means that God sees us as if we never sinned. Reba...we have been made Holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
---JIM on 8/17/11


Jim, I have faith. & I agree that my sins(past,present future) were all forgiven.HOWEVER,now that I'm a child of God, when I do sin,I feel such sadness & guilt that it comes natural for me to say I'm sorry for that sin & ask my Father for forgiveness. Do you not feel the same conviction over the sins you commit after receiving Christ as your saviour? Maybe you don't feel the need to ask for His forgiveness. But I always will feel the need to ask & it's not showing lack of faith by doing that. It's showing that I know I will receive Mercy from my Father when I admit my sin to Him.
---Reba on 8/17/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Eating Disorders


\\meaning the sin nature is always going to be there\\

"Sin nature", like "accept Christ" or "personal savior", is a formula that appears nowhere in the Bible.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/17/11


Cluny, the Bible no where teaches we have two natures. We only have one. The term 'Old Nature" or "New Nature" are not used in the Bible. One reason is that it make salvation "addition" In other words, when I get saved, nothing happen to my old nature, I just get something else. So salvation is not a transformation, its addition. "if a man be in Christ, he is a new creation" It's got to be metamorphosis. It has to be transformation. The problem people have is, that is sin in you in your flesh..in your humanness. Just call it what the Bible calls it, "sin that is in me, that is in my flesh" So as long as I have humnness, I have sin, but I am one new creation in Christ.
---Mark_V. on 8/17/11


Reba..I liked what you said except this...."We're not perfect but we have forgiveness if we ask for it & turn from it.
Romans 5:1 says that being justified(made righteous)through faith we have peace with God. When you receive Jesus your sins are forgiven. All of them. Let me ask you a question..How many of your sins were in the future when Jesus died? Your right, ALL of them. You can't keep asking for forgiveness when Jesus has already forgiven you of all your sins. Have faith.
---JIM on 8/17/11


Cluny, HOLY, Sanctified etc mean to be SEPARATE.
---kathr4453 on 8/17/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Travel Packages


Blogmeister,ROMANS 6--The old man will remain-- meaning the sin nature is always going to be there but when we accept Christ, the Holy Spirit is with us to guide us. Where before we were alone without hope. The old man is dead--meaning we have victory over death, hell & the grave. We are not controlled by the sin nature any more. We are not a slave to sin. That doesn't mean we wont be tempted or fall short. We're not perfect but we have forgiveness if we ask for it & turn from it.
---Reba on 8/16/11


Reba said: "The old man will remain until we die. The new man is Christ/Holy Spirit that comes to live within you. So the new man is not us but Christ.

You are proving my point! The old man, with all his vices is dead--just as dead as Jesus was on the Cross--now if the old man is dead, how can he be living? Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. That means that the old man is dead! How can the old man live with Christ?

Romans 6:4
We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

Are you saying that Christ does not live in me? Or in you?
---Blogmeister on 8/16/11


\\You do not have a new nature, you are a new creation in Christ. \\

If we are a new creation, then it would stand to reason we have a new nature.

We can't have one without the other.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/16/11


The old man will remain until we die. The new man is Christ/Holy Spirit that comes to live within you. So the new man is not us but Christ. Gal. 2:20-21- I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live, yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: & the life which I now live by the faith of the Son of God, who liveth in me, & gave himself for me.I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
---Reba on 8/16/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Credit Repair


Blogmeister, Reba is correct. Underneath that righteousness of Christ which was imputed to you, the flesh remains and will die because of sin. It has not died yet if you are breathing. You do not have a new nature, you are a new creation in Christ. Paul uses the anology of a runner in Phil. 3:12-14. and starts with'
"Not that I have already attained, or am already perfect, but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me. Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended, but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead. I press towards the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus"
---Mark_V. on 8/16/11


Blogmeister, what I'm saying about us, is what the Word of God says about us. If you have a problem with that, take it up with God.
---Reba on 8/16/11


"Jesus said be holy as I am holy. If by faith he wouldn't have to tell us to be holy,he would know we were already holy. Holiness comes by obedience to the Word of God."
---Darlene_1 on 8/14/11

I stand by your clear reasoning in complete agreement.
---Nana on 8/16/11


Paul says to the faithful:
Hebrews 12:14_16: "Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God, lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled,
Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright."

Peter says to the faithful:
2 Peter 1:1_21.

Then, this here is holiness:
1 John 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
---Nana on 8/15/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Christian Products


Reba said: "I believe the only thing that makes us Holy is the blood of Christ covering our sins. Without that even our righteous deeds would be filthy rags in God's sight.Isa.64:6. We can never hope to measure up without that. It's Christ covering that makes us acceptable. Nothing more."

Does that mean that the old sinful man is still there, just disguised by the Blood of Christ, like a child wearing a sheet and believing he is invisible?

What about the old sinful man being crucified with Christ and buried with Him?

Either I am a new creation or a pile of debris--which is it?
---Blogmeister on 8/15/11


We've already been "fed milk" and have learned the knowledge of the truth ("doctrine of Christ"). We must take care not to revert to once AGAIN having a repentance foundation instead of a"JESUS FOUNDATION" because we will be "DELIBERATELY" making ourselves transgressors under the old law.....(Hebrews 10:26).

Neither should we have a simple "faith TOWARD God".

Hebrews 6:1
"Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again...and of faith toward God".

No longer should our RELATIONSHIP DEVOTION be BASED on the "doctrine of Christ", but our relationship should be based on LOVE FOR GOD.
---more_excellent_way on 8/15/11


Ephesians 4:24 - And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
---Donna5535 on 8/15/11


Cluny, I believe truer words, cannot be spoken!
I also seem to believe, very strongly.
When Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, with men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.

So, then there is nothing that is impossible.
How can one believe this?

Blessed be God are savior.
---TheSeg on 8/15/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Christian Divorce


I have belief ("faith") in the laws of physics, but I don't trust that they are a loving kind 'rewarder'.

Hebrews 11:6 "faith that He exists".....AND faith that "He REWARDS"...those who will "DRAW NEAR" to Him (we're taught that He is a punisher, "perfect love casts out fear").

Romans 1:17 "the righteousness of God is revealed through FAITH FOR FAITH".

If we MOVE ON to a "solid food" devotion so that JESUS is our only foundation for spiritual cleanliness (instead of the old 'sin doctrine' REPENTANCE FOUNDATION of Moses), then we must no longer perform deeds of righteousness in order to gain cleanliness (JESUS did ALL the "works", John 6:28).
---more_excellent_way on 8/15/11


RichardC said: "GALATIANS 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, BUT BY THE FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST..."
Just look at this for a minute--If Jesus doesn't have faith WE don't get saved? He came to save the whole world, and His faith is perfect. Therefore, we are all saved, even the crazy that shot that Congresswomen in Arizona! Try rather faith IN Jesus Christ--an act of OUR faith. That is what saves us!
---Blogmeister on 8/14/11


I have always defined holy as being without fault-perfect.So yes, eventually through faith it shall be.
---earl on 8/14/11


Hebrews 10:10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Unfortunately too many preachers tell us that we are made holy by our obedience to Jesus such as observing the Sabbath, giving the tithe, being chariable to our neighbor, and dancing to their music.
---leej on 8/14/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Christian Marriage


GALATIANS 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, BUT BY THE FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST,even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justied by the faith of Christ, and not by works of the law, for by works of the law shall no flesh be justified,

( A person is save by the faith of Jesus Christ,Not our faith, OUR faith is a work. and no works of man can get you save, After a person been save they do good works like believing and having faith,)
---RICHARDC on 8/14/11


"Do you believe that we are made holy by our faith in Christ Jesus and the action of the Holy Spirit in our lives?" No.
We are made Holy by the faith of Jesus. We are considered Holy when we are "made partakers of the Holy Spirit--His Christ."
Declared Holy, just as He is Holy.
Refs. Hbr 6:4>Hbr 3:14> Lev. 20:26>Exd 19:6>Deu 14:2>1Pe 2:9
---josef on 8/14/11


Jesus said be holy as I am holy. If by faith he wouldn't have to tell us to be holy,he would know we were already holy. Holiness comes by obedience to the Word of God. By living a life above reproach.Romans 6:19 I put this in human terms,because you are weak in your natural selves. Just as you used to offer parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to everlasting wickedness,so now offer them to righteousness leading to holiness. Holiness isn't something we have but something we are by our behavior. Romans 7,1-let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit,perfecting holiness,out of reverence to God. 1John3:7--He who does what is right is righteous. Doing right brings holiness.
---Darlene_1 on 8/14/11


Copyright© 1996-2015 ChristiaNet®. All Rights Reserved.