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Commandments Of Jesus

What are the commands that Jesus gave to the Church in the Gospels?

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 ---Blogmeister on 8/16/11
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// have a challenge for you. Read the 10 Commandments and tell me which of them a Christian is free to willingly disobey.

Only nine of the 10 commandments of the Old Mosiac Covenant are found within the New Testament Covenant. Only observance of the Sabbath is not a command in the New Covenant.

The answer to your question is whatever is not in the New Covenant is NOT applicable to the Christian life.

There would be little sense if God wrote laws onto the hearts of believers that pertained only to the Jewish nation.

Why do you elevate the 10 commandments to a higher importance to whatever God has commanded?
---leej on 8/25/11


I am curious what yardstick the Adventists uses to determine if he or she has observe the Jewish Sabbath.

It is unfortunate that Adventists view obedience to the 10 commandments as necessary to merit their salvation.

According to White, one is 'pardoned' of sin at justification, but not forgiven as the believers must strive to secure his justification by obedience to the 10 commandments. He must await the Investigative judgment to see if he has become holy enough to merit eternal life.
---leej on 8/25/11


Warwick, if your not promoting Saturday Sabbath, why do you stick the law at believers? I don't believe they need to know they should not sin, they know they shouldn't. No one has said they had a license to sin. So what is your purpose? We have the New Testament full of warnings for a believer conduct. Because they are already free from the burdens of the Law. No one has said they want to be disobedient. No one has said they love to break the commandments. So what is the purpose of you continuing to promote the law? You even want to know what laws are in our heart. Why don't you tell us what laws are in your heart. Just the Ten, or all of them? And why some and not all? And do you keep all of them? Do you want to murder? Do you want to steal?
---Mark_V. on 8/25/11


Haz, I have explained my position very carefully and will not do so again.

I have a challenge for you. Read the 10 Commandments and tell me which of them a Christian is free to willingly disobey. It is not about being saved by law or being under law but lifestyle. Jeremiah 31:33 says "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time," declares the LORD. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts...." This is reflected in Romans 2:15.

I ask you a question: What is this law which is written upon our hearts? Does it contradict the 10 Commandments?
---Warwick on 8/25/11


Francis, read James 2:10 again.
"whosoever shall keep the whole law (speaking to those UNDER THE LAW), and yet offend in ONE [point], he is guilty of all.

ALL SDA's transgressed the law at least once therefore rejected by God, according to you.

But God says:
Rom10:4 Christ is END of the law.
Rom3:19 whatever the law says, it says to those UNDER IT
Rom 7:6 NOW we are DELIVERED from the law.
Rom 6:6 our old man was crucified
Rom 8:3 condemned sin in the flesh
Rom 8:10 if Christ be in you the body is dead.

The old man is dead. Why do you judge as if its alive and under the law?

Remember Gal 3:12 "The law is NOT of faith: The man that doeth them shall live by them"

---Haz27 on 8/25/11




James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

I am 100% sure that HE also said remember the sabbath day to keep it holy in the SAME LAW in whcih he said do not kill or commit adultery

Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth.., it shall come to pass, that from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

If you are unwilling to observe it NOW, why should God allow you into His new earth where ALL will be observing it?
---Francis on 8/24/11


Warwick:
I see you don't seem to like the wording of my question.

My question was:
If we neglect/disobey the Sabbath commandment are you saying we "cannot be Christians" (using YOUR own words)or did you perhaps use the wrong words to describe your point about lifestyle?

I can only conclude that you believe we are NOT Christians if we neglect/disobey Sabbath commandment, but for some reason you don't want to say this directly.

You asked how shall we live as believers?
Answer: 1John3:23 believe on Jesus and love one another.
---Haz27 on 8/24/11


Lee of many names you wrote "One has to bear in mind that Warwick is an SDA convert in embryonic stage. They will reel him in when he gets done swallowing all the line, hook & sinker."

There is not one iota of truth in this. But what would we expect from a Bibliosceptic who hides behind changing names?
---Warwick on 8/24/11


Mark, you have missunderstood my point. I do not have a Saturday Sabbath. I set aside Sunday as a day of rest and worship. I get great benefit from it.

My point is that we are not under the 10 Commandments, nor can we be saved by them. And further I have not seen anyone here who says we can be saved by obeying the Commandments.

The point is: though we are not saved by them can we as faithful followers of Christ willingly have a lifestyle in which we willingly murder, committ adultery, lie, steal or live contrary to all or any of them?

If an attractive woman propositions me can I enter into an adulterous affair. If not why?
---Warwick on 8/24/11


Haz, I cannot see why you are confused, but you are, I accept that. Let me start again:

1) No nonBeliever can be saved by adherence to the law or any other work. The nonBeliever can only be saved through faith in what Jesus has done.

2) However after being saved, now faithful followers of Jesus, how shall we live? Can faithful Christians worship gods, make idols, misuse God's name, dishonour parents, murder, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness or covet?

Can Christians (those already saved and following Jesus) willingly continue to commit the above sins and still claim to be faithful followers of Jesus?

If we cannot commit the above 9 sins why can we reject God's command regarding the Sabbath?
---Warwick on 8/24/11




JIM is correct. Christ is the end of the law Rom 10:4

Also note Rom 7:14 "the law is SPIRITUAL".
The physical cant keep them perfectly. Even the legalists fail.
Hence why Paul asked in Rom 7:24 "Who will deliver me from the body of this death".

Rom 8:3 says "sin was condemned in the flesh" and verse 10 "if Christ be in you , the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is alive because of righteousness".

Remember Gal 2:20 it is no longer I that lives, but Christ lives in me.
We're a new creation. Our old man is dead.

The criminal on cross next to Jesus was a criminal to the day he died and yet was saved.
We are saved by grace, not grace + works of the law.
---Haz27 on 8/24/11


//I see a lot of people on here that do not fully understand and appreciate the freedom we have in Christ.

1 Cor. 6:12 All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be enslaved by anything.

It is no wonder that many accused the Apostle Paul of antinomianism. He certainly would never had made a good SDA as they believed one is bound by law.
---leej on 8/24/11


I see alot of people on here that do not fully understand and appreciate the freedom we have in Christ. Gods grace is the biggest motivator for Godly living.
Rhonda....the Apostle Paul fought the false teachers of his day that were trying to add that you who have faith must also be circumcised. Or you who have faith must also follow the law.
Jesus Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. Romans 10:4
---JIM on 8/24/11


//Warwick, I love how you stand for the eternal Son ship of God and other doctrines but when it comes to the law, you stick the law on all those who are in Christ, knowing full well there is no salvation through the law.

One has to bear in mind that Warwick is an SDA convert in embryonic stage. They will reel him in when he gets done swallowing all the line, hook & sinker.
---leej on 8/24/11


What laws to follow? ... we should walk by faith looking to God's Spirit to guide us.
****

reject "olde" Apostles droning on about obeying Gods Holy LAWS

TRUTH is one establishes GODS LAW through FAITH Rom 3:31 and THROUGH faith True Christians obey without faith laws are works

Holy Scripture does not say those who walk by faith have Gods Holy Spirit it STATES those who KEEP THE LAW are loved by HIM (John 14:15, 21, 15:10, 1John 5:3) ONLY those keeping GODS LAWS have HIS Holy Spirit (1John 2:3, 3:24 16:13) guiding to truth in HIS LAWS (John 16:13, Rom 2:20)

those teaching to REJECT Gods LAWS and "walk in faith" are per Holy Scripture LIARS without Gods Holy Spirit (1 John 2:4)
---Rhonda on 8/24/11


Need we follow the law? Only if the law is applicable.
---leej on 8/22/11

I do not know why this discussion is so difficult.

If Jeremiah 31 describes the new covenant that was initiated with the blood of Jesus, what Law did God write in our hearts? His Law.

In whatever manner of law you describe, there is at minimum one commandment that must be followed. You must accept Christ as your Lord and Savior to get written into the Lamb's Book of Life.

Having accepted the first commandment, why won't you accept the rest?

They can certainly be summarized into a smaller number, but the Law is still with us.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/24/11


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Jerry //And just WHO determines which laws are applicable?

In Adventism, it is olde Ellen White who has no theological education and little else. As to being a divine prophet appointed by God, there was no Aaron rod she could point to nor did she perform any miracles. Sorry but she is on the same shelf with Mormon founder Joseph Smith.

What laws to follow? That is your problem as clearly we should walk by faith looking to God's Spirit to guide us.
---leej on 8/24/11


Warwich, I love how you stand for the eternal Sonship of God and other doctrines but when it comes to the law, you stick the law on all those who are in Christ, knowing full well there is no salvation through the law. You suddenly become legalistic and change sides only because we observe the Sabbath on a different day even though we are in Christ. You want everyone to do Saturday or else a person is not saved because they break the law as if none of you did. As if none of you were sinners. You forget all the other laws altogether to get your point across. Why is your sin not sin? Can you keep all the laws? I doubt that very much. Don't you know how rediculous your arguments sound? You would do wise for Christ glory to stay away from the law.
---Mark_V. on 8/24/11


Warwick:
Unfortunately forums are difficult places to get messages across. I'm sure you understand this. Please bear with me.

You said:
"Can we claim to be a follower of Christ..." if we break the commandments.
And
"We cannot be Christian and willingly break..." the commandments.

You say you speak of "post-salvation lifestyle" but your statements above suggest a judgement of being a NON-Christian if we break commandments.

To help me understand you please answer this question. If we neglect/disobey the Sabbath commandment are you saying we "cannot be Christians" (using YOUR own words)or did you perhaps use the wrong words to describe your point about lifestyle?
---Haz27 on 8/24/11


Lee of many names: "Only if the law is applicable."

And just WHO determines which laws are applicable? Is everyone accorded that privelege, or just you? My Bible tells me (in the OT as well as the NT) that it is God who writes HIS LAW in our hearts in the New Covenant. Nowhere does the NT define which of these laws are written and which are "not applicable".

If everyone can cherry pick which laws he likes and which he doesn't, the result is anarchy, confusion, and no LAW at all! Do you think that heaven is run that way? Satan thought that way and was kicked out of heaven. Perhaps you should examine whose lead you are following.
---jerry6593 on 8/24/11


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Romans 2:7-11 "To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile,
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
For there is no respect of persons with God."

Matthew 19:17 "And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments."
---Nana on 8/24/11


You shall love God with all your heart,mind,soul and strength........this covers the commandments 1-4.
You shall love your neighbor as yourself......this covers commandments 5-10.
---JIM on 8/24/11


Haz I do not know how I can make my position any clearer but I will have another go.

We are not saved by adherence to the 10 Commandments, or by any works, but only by God's grace through the finished work of Jesus Christ upon the cross. Agreed?

In the 10 Commandments God says: we are not to: have any Gods but Him, make idols, misuse His name, murder, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness, covet or dishonour our parents.

Can we claim to be a follower of Christ and at the same time break these 9 of His 10 commandments? You know the answer is no. So I ask you why can we therefore reject the Sabbath Commandment?

May I repeat: I am not talking of our salvation but our post-salvation lifestyle.
---Warwick on 8/23/11


Lee, you write "Both our salvation and walk is from Jesus not what we do."

As I have very carefully and patiently explained what I mean you are therefore saying that we can willingly commit adultery, lie, idols, and murder and still do the Christian walk. Nonsense!

"ever read Eph. 2:8-10?" Quite a few times Lee, and it is about our salvation not our "walk" afterwards.

That you would give this reference means you cannot comprehend what I have written. Or have not read it. Or are endeavouring to be evasive. Maybe a combination of all three.

Isn't it time for a name change?
---Warwick on 8/23/11


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Warwick:
I wasn't assuming you were referring to salvation in your earlier post.

But in your post 8/23/11 speaking on 10 commandments you said: " We cannot be Christian and willingly break these...."

Please clarify this as your claim above contradicts your other claim that we are saved by grace alone.

Are you really saying that willingly breaking 10 commandments (e.g neglecting Sabbath continually) means you are NOT a Christian ?
---Haz27 on 8/23/11


//"I do NOT teach others to disobey the 10 commandments"

To observe the Jewish Sabbath is totally an optional thing - up to the individual's convictions. Try reading Romans 14:4f So I do not teach others to disobey their convictions.

//Need we follow the law? Only if the law is applicable.

If you follow the law, then clearly you believe you are your own savior and yet under the law to become righteous. Scripture does not support your viewpoint.
---leej on 8/23/11


Warwick //Jesus therefore commands we obey all 10 Commandments.

You really lack any significant understanding of the Gospel.

Joh 1:17 For the law was given through Moses, grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Both our salvation and walk is from Jesus not what we do. In fact, ever read Eph. 2:8-10?

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

God is not finished with us yet as we all need to grow spiritually.
---leej on 8/23/11


Haz, I thought I had made my point very clear but obviously not so.

What I am saying is: We are saved only by God's grace, through Jesus' finished work upon the cross. However as Christians can we commit adultery, murder, steal, lie, misuse the Lord's name, worship other Gods, covet, have idols, dishonour our parents? You know the answer is no. We cannot be Christian and willingly break these 9 commandments. So why can we break the Sabbath Commandment?

I say it again this has NOTHING to do with salvation but how we should live our lives once saved.
---Warwick on 8/23/11


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Jesus said-Love the Lord your God with all your heart soul and mind-the first and greatest commandment..the second is like it Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two-Matthew 22:37-40.

This, some say, means Christians can break the 10 Commandments but this is not what Jesus says. He says these 2 commandments encapsulate all 10.

If we love God totally we will have no other gods, nor make idols, misuse God's name, nor reject the Sabbath for God "blessed the sabbath day and made it holy" Exodus 20:11.

And if we truly love our fellow man we will not murder, commit adultery, steal, give false witness, or covet.

Jesus therefore commands we obey all 10 Commandments.
---Warwick on 8/23/11


Lee of many names: We all know that you are good at tap dancing, but lousy at answering direct questions. Your attempt at obfuscation causes you to contradict yourself, as these two quotes will show:

"I do NOT teach others to disobey the 10 commandments"

"Need we follow the law? Only if the law is applicable."

Now you claim that "Galatians 4:4-5 states Christ redeemed us from the law." It does not! It states that Christ redeemed US. Christ came to save us from our SINS (Mat 1:21) - not from the LAW!

You are still called "least" by those in heaven for teaching Commandment breaking (Mat 5:19).
---jerry6593 on 8/23/11


//What are the commands that Jesus gave to the Church in the Gospels?

Jesus was STILL UNDER THE OLD COVENANT in the Gospels! Gal. 4:4-5

What commands did Jesus give to His Church in the Epistles.

Romans 13:9-10 The commandments, Do not commit adultery, not murder,not steal,not covet, and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: Love your neighbour as yourself. Love does no harm to its neighbour. Therefore love is the fulfilment of the law.

1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Sorry Legalist, but the truth is always against you.
---leej on 8/23/11


What are the commands that Jesus gave to the Church in the Gospels?

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
Matthew 12:12 Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.
Matthew 4:10 Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
John 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth. (NO IDOLS OR GRAVEN IMAGES)

ALL TEN COMMANDMENTS
---Francis on 8/22/11


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Mark_Eaton //Do we still need to follow the Law? We follow it gladly to please Jesus and the Father. We follow it by loving God and loving all mankind as we love ourselves.

Need we follow the law? Only if the law is applicable.

There are many laws in the Old Testament / Old Covevant that do not pertain to us as Christians.

Moral law? yes we are to follow that since it involves interaction with others.

Jewish Sabbath, dietary laws, etc. have little if anything to do with love of neighbor and are nowhere commanded of Christians in the New Covenant.

Haz77 comment is also a good one. Glad to see that there are others on this forum that have little use for the legalists.
---leej on 8/22/11


Warwick:
Sorry mate, but leej is correct here.
Consider the scriptures below

Rom 8:2 We are SET FREE from the law of sin and death.
Rom 3:19 Whatever the law says it says to those UNDER IT.
1 Tim 1:9 The law is NOT made for the righteous (i.e Christians) but for....sinners.

But, what are Jesus's commandments?
1John 3:23 Believe on Jesus and love one another.

And he that love's another has fulfilled the law Rom 13:8.

Your question about breaking 10 commandments is better asked is it ok to harm others? No. And God disciplines us if we do.
But under the law the penalty is death for transgressions.


---Haz27 on 8/22/11


Lee of many names. As you attempt deception by using many names you attempt evasion by refusing to answer the question.

The unanswered question remains: Can Christisns willingly break the 10 Commandments?

Are you going after Atheists record of refusing to answer questions?
---Warwick on 8/22/11


One redeemed from the law is no longer subject to it.
---leej on 8/22/11

Let me wade in here with a word that may help.

I envision the law as the sea and before Christ, we are attempting to swim in it. Of course we fail and ultimately drown. But, Christ comes along in a boat and picks us out of the sea.

Now, will the sea still kill? Yes, of course. Is the Law still in effect? Yes, but we are safely in the boat of Christ and as long as we are in Christ, we are released from the pain and death that the Law required.

Do we still need to follow the Law? Yes, but it cannot make us righteous. We follow it gladly to please Jesus and the Father. We follow it by loving God and loving all mankind as we love ourselves.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/22/11


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Not everyone is going to heaven. Those who continue in thier sin, will be destroyed by the lake of fire.
1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey, whether of transgression of the law unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of transgression of the law, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Romans 6:18 Being then made free from your transgressions of the law, ye became the servants of righteousness.
---Francis on 8/22/11


Warwick - You ignored my advise to read Eph. 2, Romans 7.

Again, Galatians 4:4-5 states Christ redeemed us from the law.

Perhaps you need to find out what 'redeem' means?

One redeemed from the law is no longer subject to it.

Romans 7 says the same thing. In dying to the law, one is no longer subject to it, much the same as a widow would no longer be subject to the laws concerning her husband. She is free to marry another in the same sense we are no longer bound by law but free to follow Christ.

You lack understanding!

Peter stated there are some things in Paul's letters hard to understand which the ignorant and unstable do the same with the rest of scripture to their own destruction. 2 Peter 3:16
---leej on 8/22/11


Do you NOW claim you teach others to OBEY the Ten Commandments? ROFL!

I have never nor will I ever teach the false doctrine one must observe the 10 commandments to be saved or to gain favor with God. The righteous live by faith - Romans 1:17, Galatians 3:11.

Romans 13:10 is very plain that love of neighbor fulfills the law.

As to the specific commandment to observe the Jewish Sabbath, Romans 14:5-6 is very clear that the keeping of any day is totally an optional thing.

Neither the Bible nor the Apostles and their immediate successors taught Sabbath observance.

Your confusion is due to the fact you believe you are following Christ via your religion.

Hopefully someday you will come to realize that.
---leej on 8/22/11


Can one keep the the 2 Royal Laws of Liberty, love God and love your neighbor, and not keep the Ten Commandments?
If not, why are we concerned with the Ten Commandments when Jesus Himself says the the two are sufficient?
Why preach the Law when Paul exhorts us to preach Christ?
Romans 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law,
James 4:12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?
---micha9344 on 8/22/11


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Lee of many names: "I do NOT teach others to disobey the 10 commandments but I do contend that obedience to law does not make one a righteous person, nor do I promote your view one merits favor in God's eyes by obedience to selected OT laws."

Do you NOW claim that you teach others to OBEY the Ten Commandments? ROFL!

I have NEVER stated that Commandment keeping makes one righteous, or that it curries favor with God. Can you show where I have?
---jerry6593 on 8/22/11


Lee, are you claiming Paul is saying that Jesus, by His death, did away with the very days He kept during His whole life? Surely not!

Is Paul saying "God considers one day more sacred than another" and "God considers every day alike?" Not so! These verses do not mention the Sabbath but tell us what men were doing and teaching, not what God teaches.

The unanswered question remains: Can Christisns willingly break the 10 Commandments?

Why do you avoid a straight answer to a straight question? We can make an educated guess.
---Warwick on 8/21/11


Jerry //Why do you continue to teach disobedience to God's Ten Commandments?

I do NOT teach others to disobey the 10 commandments but I do contend that obedience to law does not make one a righteous person, nor do I promote your view one merits favor in God's eyes by obedience to selected OT laws.

The major problem with Adventists, is that Christ is not the focus of what they teach but simply obedience to ordinances of their man-made religion.

Adventists miss the essence of the gospel much like the Pharisees did when Christ was on earth.

They were good commandment keepers, even believed as you do that the most important commandment was the Jewish Sabbath - not taught by the Apostles or their successors.
---leej on 8/20/11


Jerry //Don't you know that Jesus never changes.

It is doubtful if anyone disagrees with that. Hebrews 13:8

But that fact does not mean Jesus did not usher in a new covenant - a covenant that did not include many of the laws that were distinctively Jewish. Hebrews 8:8, 8:13, 12:24

Take for instance, physically circumcision was mandatory under the Old Covenant, but totally optional under the New.

In fact, you will not find any hint of a command in the New Covenant to observe the OT sabbath, or the dietary laws.

Are you going to tell me that the Lord's Apostles made a mistake at the Jerusalem council in not mandating Jewish laws to Gentile believers? Acts 15.
---leej on 8/20/11


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Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

This tells me that Jesus taught ALL the commandments and that a believer also teaches ALL the commandments and obey ALL the commandments.

Jesus made it 100% clear that those who would break the least of the commandments and teach men to do so are THE LOWEEST FORM OF LIFE ( the least)
---Francis on 8/20/11


Lee of many names: Jesus has something to say to you, so listen up:

Mat 5:17-19 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

If you think that Paul has the athority to overturn Jesus' own words, you need to reevaluate your relationship with Jesus.
---jerry6593 on 8/21/11


Warwick - Romans 14:5-6 One man considers one day more sacred than another, another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God, and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God.

But there is an OT commandment that says one must observe the Sabbath, however, it has been the interpretation of the church that Christians can have their own convictions regarding what day they wish to observe if any, and what they may or may not eat.

Of course, those that believed Christ would come again on 22 October 1844, held a much different viewpoint.
---leej on 8/21/11


Lee, again and again you duck the question.

The question is: Can we as Christians live a life in which we willingly break the 10 Commandments?

Galatians 4:4-7 does not say we can.

Interestingly Stalin had a relevant comment:

"Reading Darwin had an enormous impact upon me. It corroborated my defiance of God and inspired me to systematically break all the Ten Commandments, which I now realized were only chains. Thought I had stolen and lied before, I now stole and lied with a higher purpose-freedom of self." Richard Lourie, 1999 the autobiography of Joseph Stalin. Counterpoint , Washington D.C., page 36.

Can we also break them Lee?
---Warwick on 8/21/11


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Warwick - //... 'please explain how Galatians 4:4-7 says Christians can disobey the 10 Commandments?'

Galatians 4 simply says that the law (in view here is the Mosaic law) is not applicable to those in Christ.

The Christian is JUSTIFIED (declared righteous) by faith, not by works of the law, nor is ones salvation dependence upon obedience to law. Try reading slowly and prayerfully Eph. 2:8f and Romans 7.

Of course, 'the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned'. 1Co 2:14

It is all too often the 'religious' that are incapable of any spiritual discernment.
---leej on 8/20/11


francis //The promise of the new covenant does not promise new laws, but rather to put the same laws ...in our fleshy hearts and minds.

Suggest you google Judaism 101, and view the list of the 613 Mitzvot (commandments) found in the Old Testament.

Under the OT laws, you cannot sleep with your wife during menstration, must observe ALL the sabbaths including the weekly Sabbath, cannot wear clothiing made of 2 materials, must release all debtors during the Jubilee year, cannot sow 2 different kinds of seeds in a field, cannot eat from a fruit tree until the 3rd year, fast on Yom Kipper, not eat meat with blood in it, marry your dead brother's wife if childless, etc.

you have to be either a very foolish or ignorant person.
---leej on 8/20/11


John //Jesus gave us two commandments

1) To love one another
2) To believe He is the Son of G-d.

Very true as the fulfillment of the law is love of neighbor (Romans 13:9f), BUT the religionist being essential misled and spiritual blind, demand obedience to laws.

They are little different from the Pharisees of Jesus' day. What the Lord wants is not a religion but a relationship.
---leej on 8/20/11


The promise of the new covenant does not promise us new laws, but rather to put the same laws of God which he wrote on tablets of stone, now written into our fleshy hearts and minds. Jeremiah 31:33

What makes this covenant new is NOT THE LAWS
but three essencial elements
1: In the old covenant Israel declared that they will ( by their own efforts) obey God. The new covenant promises the Holy Spirit to help us obey Gods laws
2: The Old covenant was ratified by blood of calves and goats, the New covenant is made with the blood of Jesus
3: the Old covent used the earthly sanctuary and letites as priests, the New covenant uses the heavenly sanctuary and Jesus as High priest
---Francis on 8/20/11


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Lee, the question you have not answered is "please explain how Galatians 4:4-7 says Christians can disobey the 10 Commandments?"

If we have been told we can disobey the 10 Commandments it should be easy for you to provide an answer. But you don't provide such an answer, because you can't.



---Warwick on 8/20/11


Lee of many names: Why do you continue to teach disobedience to God's Ten Commandments? Your twisting of Paul's writings to justify your life of sin is in clear contradiction to Jesus' words condemning that very act (Mat 5:18,19).

Don't you know that it was Jesus who etched those Commandments in stone with His own finger?

Don't you know that Jesus never changes.

Don't you know that Jesus kept all Ten Commandments as an example for us to follow.

Whose side are you on?
---jerry6593 on 8/20/11


Jesus gave us two commandments

1) To love one another
2) To believe He is the Son of G-d.
---John on 8/19/11


The New covenant has the same laws as he old covenant. God did not promise to CHANGE or DO AWAY with the laws. He promised to put them in THEIR HEARTS

Jeremiah 31:33 I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts,
Ezekiel 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you, and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

the old covenant was ratifoed by blood of animals, the new ratified by lood fo jesus SAME LAWS THOUGH
---francis on 8/20/11


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Jeremiah 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:...


Francis you fail to read the Jeremiah 31:31 in its context. What you apparently believe is that the New Covenant is simply a rehash of the Old with the same laws and regulations.

I may not be the smartest person in the world or the most knowledgeable but I do use what brains I have which is something I doubt you can do.

You are a follower of Ellen White and her garbage, but we follow Christ and have the indwelling Holy Spirit to guide us - the Word is in our hearts.
---leej on 8/19/11


---leej on 8/19/11
You are not a 1/4 smart as you think. The new covenant was NOT AMDE with any Gentiles, and it was made with THE LAW OF GOD.

Jeremiah 31:33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of israel, I will put MY LAW in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and will be their God, and they shall be my people.


Hebrews 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of ISRAEL after those days, saith the Lord, I will put MY LAWS ( SAME LAWS GOD GAVE IN THE OLD COVENANT)into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
---francis on 8/19/11


Galatians 4:4-5 But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons.

//please explain how Galatians 4:4-7 says Christians can disobey the 10 Commandments? //

The verse simply states that the believer has been redeemed or free from the law. It is much liken to the law that states you must have a reflector on your horse buggy howbeit, if you do not drive a horse buggy then the law is NOT applicable to you.

Notice that the Sabbath was given ONLY to the Jewish nation under the Covenant He made with them alone.

It was NOT imposed on Gentile believers.
---leej on 8/19/11


Warwick //please explain how Galatians 4:4-7 says Christians can disobey the 10 Commandments?

Perhaps a modern translation would help you understand what is being stated in this verse.

But when the right time came, God sent His Son, born of a woman, subject to the law. God sent Him to buy freedom for us who were slaves to the law, so that he could adopt us as his very own children.

Galatians 4:4-5 states effectively what Paul also stated in Gal. 3:24-25 that the law was but a temporary injunction to us until we could be justified by faith.

Yes, we are free from the law but bound by that new nature we acquired upon salvation.
---leej on 8/19/11


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jerry jerry you are still blind to the truth!

1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

And WHAT ARE HIS COMMANDMENTS. In context of 1 John there are just 2 -

That we believe in the Name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another as he gave commandment. (1 John 3:22)

Jerry, the Jesus I follow is the one who had the Bible penned while me thinks the one you follow is the same one Ellen White followed, but that one probably had horns.
---leej on 8/19/11


francis //Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven

You may find this very difficult to believe but the audience Jesus was addressing in this event were ALL Jewish and Jesus was under the OLD COVENANT, under the Old Mosaic laws.

Jesus instituted a New Covenant in His blood for all believerws in which there was NO NO NO NO requirement to observe laws strictly Jewish in nature such as circumcision, Sabbath observance, dietary laws, etc - things that would be a burdern to Gentile believers.
---leej on 8/19/11


do you want them summed up? if you do the sum perfectly...you do all perfectly. reminder: if you hated another even for one nano-second...one nano-second was all it took to murder him.
---aka on 8/18/11


Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven

Jesus makes it 100% clear that we are not to break any of the commandments nor are we to teach men to break any of them.

This would mean that christ gave to the church ALL the commandments
---Francis on 8/18/11


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Lee, Leej,Leeonia, please explain how Galatians 4:4-7 says Christians can disobey the 10 Commandments?

You wrote "Jesus NEVER commanded His followers to observe the Jewish Sabbath?" He did not have to as it was the norm for them!

Francis quotes Jesus saying "Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days." Matthew 12:12

Jesus said "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath." Mark 2:27

Jesus asked them, '"Which is lawful on the Sabbath: to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?..." Mark 3:4

It is clear from these verses the Sabbath is a reality. However the question is: are we saved by observing the Sabbath? No, and no one has said so.
---Warwick on 8/19/11


lee, leej, leonia, maryg: I see that you're still preaching your anti-biblical doctrine of disobedience and lawlessness. Too bad that you refuse to follow Jesus.

1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Whose side are you on, anyway?
---jerry6593 on 8/19/11


Matthew 7:12 "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets."
Matthew 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, ..., but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

Generalizing as 'love God and love man' or this 'summed up as LOVE....', would be valid if Christ did such. But besides describing in general the
SUM of all a man is to do, with God and with man, He went on to innumerable specific and detailed commands. (Only Lords issue commands,
not lowly serfs. Interesting that those who avidly defend (as if it needed it) God's Sovereignty are the ones to first refuse His commands!!!)
---Nana on 8/19/11


What are the commands that Jesus gave to the Church in the Gospels?

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

Jesus did speak of all ten commandments:

Matthew 12:12 Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.
Matthew 4:10 Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
John 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth. (NO IDOLS OR GRAVEN IMAGES)
---francis on 8/18/11


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Francis, do you keep all of the commandments?
---Rob on 8/17/11
YES I DO. Should i fall short I have forgiveness in Jesus!!
Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Which one of them do you choose not to obey?
---Francis on 8/18/11


francis //IF you believe Jesus, then you also must believe that we are to keep all the commandments, that he did not come to destroy the law, and that it is easier for heaven and earth tio pass away that for one commar to be taken out of the law.

Have you ever read Galatians 4:4-7?????????

But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law,
to redeem (to free) those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons. Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba, Father." So you are no longer a slave (to sin and the law), but a son, and since you are a son, God has made you also an heir.
---leej on 8/18/11


Jerry - do you not find it interesting that Jesus NEVER commanded His followers to observe the Jewish Sabbath?

Those terrible Apostles of His even refuse to command Gentile converts to become circumcised AND obey the law of Moses (Acts 15:5)!!!!!!

Olde Ellen White had to correct them on that didn't she?
---leej on 8/18/11


Matthew: Get right with your brother, before offering your gift at the altar. When praying, do not show off, nor use vain repetitions. Wise teachers use both testaments for distinctive teaching. Go out into the highways and biways and invite people to come into the marriage communion. Follow what the ministers and teachers say, but not what they do. He whoever father, call not yours upon earth: for one is your Papa which is in heaven. Do not require tithes, but instead regard mercy and faith. Stay anointed. Minister to them in need. Go all you and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to follow all things that I have commanded you.
---Eloy on 8/18/11


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Jesus did not give a new commandment to the churches,he gave it to the apostles.Churches is a later development that arose from the teachings of Paul.
In relation to any new commandments as Jesus taught there is Deut.4.2 and 12.32 do not add to his(God's) commandments.Adding a commandment for God's people by someone other than God carries a warning from God.
Jesus introduced ((only one)) additionalcommandment .Jo.13.34-35.---to love one another as I(Jesus) have loved you.And he states why in v.35.
The OT writer states as God's word not to add any commandment to God's word but Jesus did.
This new commandment added fuel to the fire in Jewish opposition to the teachings of Jesus when this commandment was later written on paper.
---earl on 8/17/11


Francis, do you keep all of the commandments?
---Rob on 8/17/11


IF you believe Jesus, then you also must believe that we are to keep all the commandments, that he did not come to destroy the law, and that it is easier for heaven and earth tio pass away that for one commar to be taken out of the law.

Luke 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail. >Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus came to do the will of His father, and it was never the will of God to do away with the Law
---Francis on 8/17/11


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