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Does God Want Losers

Does God's involvement in Old Testament wars mean he wants competition? ALL living is competition, for higher score cradle to grave in school, professional ball leagues, dressing, church membership numbers, we create losers everywhere. Could we have Democracy without "lower class?"

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 ---Geraldine on 8/18/11
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Hello,our best for God'finest! I think like this, daily as I pray, delve study His word, meditate on His mercy,grace, have forgiven me for all my past,etc.. I want to serve Him better and better, I have realized NO greater love in this world,for me.. No matter through heartache hurt from just ups,downs,in life,loneliness,my own mistakes, He is worthy!

Rev.12:11 2Tim.10-121Pet.5:8,9,10

good example how far we will have to go, for our Master & Saviour Jesus!
---Lidia4796 on 8/21/13


Craig, you are wrong. If you were right then no one would be saved. When the Holy Spirit brings someone alive to Christ, He not only makes him spiritually alive but gives him faith to believe, grants him repentance by convicting him, and most of all puts the love of Christ in his heart. That's why He repents, and believes before he confesses Christ as his Lord and Savior.
If you were right, then the Spirit has no power over lost man, who without a changed heart would always reject Christ.
But God the Spirit makes everthing possible for him, that he cannot but love Christ.
"We love Him because He first loved us"
---Mark_V. on 9/10/11


Trav,
Bible shows that I am more than likely to be from one of the twelve ....
wall of partition was broken down, ...
...
cos only people who identify with the description in Deut are my descendent's.
---Carla on 9/5/11

Incredibly,ironically,markedly "your" descendents race is race special now.

Wall of partition was between Judah and the Northern House tribes of Israel.

Eph 2:17came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

Jer 31:10Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations, declare it in the isles afar off, say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock.
Matthew 15:24
But he answered and said, I am not..
---Trav on 9/6/11


Rhonda, I have not changed my position at all. As I said in the beginning, many people are in bad situations that they created. Perhaps they have an illegitimate child, or perhaps they got divorced, or perhaps they can't maintain a job because they are lazy or they don't get along with co-workers, or perhaps they are in jail because they commited crimes, or in debt because they bought things they couldn't afford. All of these things God's Word tells us not to do. By simply living a Godly lifestyle, we can avoid becoming "losers". It is noones fault but their own.
---Jed on 9/5/11


Noone disagrees with that Mark, but youre leaving out the part where the man can reject what the Holy Spirit is trying to bring about in Him: repentance and faith.

Cherry picking verses leads to bad doctrine. You cant deny the ones that dont fit with your churches teachings. They all matter or else the HS wouldnt have put them in ther!
---CraigA on 9/5/11




Craig, the point was that only God can save them. And a person will not call on the name of the Lord if he doesn't have faith. Faith has to be granted by the Father. "God may perhaps grant that they will repent and come to know the Truth, and they may escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will" ( 2 Tim. 2:25,26).
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing, it is a gift of God-not because of works, lest any man should boast" (Eph. 2:8,9).
"So it depends not upon man's will or exertion, but upon God's mercy" Romans 9:16). A person can call all he wants but if God doesn't exercise mercy, there is no salvation.
---MarK_V. on 9/5/11


The only loser is the devil his host and followers.

All other is under The Almighty Gods mercy and Grace, through Jesus Christ.

The sooner people learn to stop judging who is a loser and who is a winner the sooner they recognise, their argument is lost, based on whomsoever God will have Mercy, meaning you yourself could lose out to the loser you judged.

Just my humble based on scripture OPINION...

PEACE Xxxx
---Carla on 9/5/11


The last argument has a problem to it: If the 'loss' is due t our decision, we can say we are losers. What about those due to things outside our choice: bad health not due to our actions, due to our parents being killed by a drunken driver, etc

A person can lose a lot from the actions of others, or just due to health
---Peter on 9/4/11


--Rhonda, you said usless, then show me how that person could save himself with his free will? I bet you cannot.--MarkV

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

The free will doesnt save. The free will calls upon the One who does the saving.
---CraigA on 9/4/11


There will always be losers in the world because there will always be people that do not want to live by God's rules. ...blame everyone else for the fact that they are now losers.
---Jed on 8/19/11
****

either you have deliberately taken a new position to spin your reasoning or simply ARGUE your point to further you misunderstanding or you FORGOT the previous position you once had and now evade and dodge

the blog topic states "we create losers everywhere" YOU affirmed misstating Holy Scripture

if you took the time to actually READ my post I never claimed people could be irresponsible however I now see the spin you use to play your wordsmith game effectively and MISUSE Holy Scripture in the process
---Rhonda on 9/4/11




Jed, you are so right. We are responsible for our choices. All born after Adam's fall are responsible because the minute they break one law of God, they have broken them all. And everyone who is born breaks the law. If they could keep themselves from never sinning, they would not be condemn. That is why they need a Redeemer, Christ. Everyone, whether they believe it or not is under a Covenant of Works as a law breaker or a law keeper. Believers are law keepers not because we could keep the whole law, but because Christ kept the whole law for us. When we put our faith in Christ, by Grace, He is the propiation for our sins. He died once for all times for those who place their faith on Him. There is no condemnation to those who are in Christ.
---Mark_V. on 9/4/11


Rhonda, this blog is not about salvation. The origional question was about lower class in this physical life. The only point I have tried to make throughout this blog is that many people who are in rather undesirable circumstances blame others instead of accepting the responsibility for their own choices that belongs to them and them alone. Since you have continually argued with this concept, I can only assume that you do not agree that people are wholey responsible for thier own choices, and therefor their own situation.
---Jed on 9/3/11


Rhonda, you said usless, then show me how that person could save himself with his free will? I bet you cannot.
Of course man has a choice, so do those in the middle of the desert. Do you not know that the unregenerate man can, through grace, love his family and he may be a good citizen. But he cannot give a cup of cold water to a disciple in the name of Jesus. He can give all his money to build hospitals but he cannot do it out of love for God. All his common virtues or good works have a fatal defect in that the motives which prompt him are not to glorify God. It matters not how good his works may be in themselves, for as long as the doer of them is out of harmony with God, none of his works are spiritually acceptable.
---Mark_V. on 9/3/11


Rhonda 2: you answer with opinon not Scripture. You said,
"if one dies because they make a poor physical choice they LOST NOTHING ...if they did not HEAR GODS saving TRUTH they were simply not called to salvation in their physical life."
You answered your own arguement when you said,
If they do not hear Gods saving truth they were simply not called to salvation in their physical life"
Who does the calling? God does the calling. And if He doesn't call them they remain lost. You can only get saved in this physical life, once you are dead there is no more chances. There is only one way into the Kingdom of God, you have to be born of the Spirit. You cannot make youself reborn, that is the works of the Spirit.
---Mark_V. on 9/3/11


No. You can have all the free will you want but if someone does not come to save you, you will die. What good was your free will? it meant nothing.
*****

another useless analogy

comparing one's physical choices to one's SPIRITUAL choices

many people make poor physical choices - it is still free-will

many people make poor spiritual choices - AGAIN free-will

if one dies because they make a poor physical choice they LOST NOTHING ...if they did not HEAR GODS saving TRUTH they were simply not called to salvation in their physical life

mankind was GIVEN free-will by The Father in Heaven ...mankind are not puppets acting out a movie script of a predetermined role by a sadistic god
---Rhonda on 9/3/11


Alan, I did not hear from you for a while and suddenly, you could not help yourself, so you question the lost, or why I call them lost.
I will explain to you as if you were a child. If you Alan, were in the middle of the desert, on foot with no water, the sun bitting down on you, and you didn't know which way to go, you in fact would be lost, condemn to die unless someone comes to save you, right?
Now, lets also say, you shout out loud and say, "I have free will" I can do what I want"could you save yourself without help? No. You can have all the free will you want but if someone does not come to save you, you will die. What good was your free will? it meant nothing.
---Mark_V. on 9/3/11


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All people are responsible for where they are in life, a concept you also apparently do not believe.
****

Well you KNOW what they say about assumptions!!

salvation is NOT for those who are successful ONLY

salvation is not "closed" to those who did not/could not/ or were not AWARE they COULD BE more successful aka responsibility for more success in their lives

lack of success in ANYONE's life could be ASSIGNED FAULT however it would NEVER determine salvation ...and many unsuccessful people HAVE salvation

poor choice of words or the elitist view that those who are not successful are still viewed as "losers" because they are deemed unworthy because they "rejected" GOD??
---Rhonda on 9/2/11


Mark .. Why call them the "lost"?

Lost by whom?

Does the term not imply that they should not be lost?

But that does not fit in with your predestination doctrine that God selects ... for being saved and thus also for being rejected.

If God refuses to save them, they are not lost, but deliberately rejected by Him.
---alan8566_of_uk on 9/2/11


Craig, I totally agree. If someone is condemn already as all the lost are, they are losers. What they need is to stop been losers, and that only comes by grace through faith in the works of the Lord Jesus Christ. Otherwise they remain losers.
---Mark_V. on 9/2/11


Hate to break it to ya, but we're all losers. We've all failed.

So, yes, God does want losers. At least those who can admit it. He doesnt seem to like arrogance and pride too much.
---CraigA on 9/2/11


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never mind well all make mistakes Every Single last One of US....lol
---Carla on 9/1/11


God wants us to be free. when babies are born they know how to cry, smile, laugh, be joy full. Naturally
I think we should have been learning from the animals, insects, birds.

Words aint Real
Feelings Are.
---philip on 9/1/11


Rhonda, once again, I was not the one who chose to use the word loser. I agree it is a poor term to use. I was only using it for lack of a better term because it was already being used in this blog to describe "lower classes". I guess a better term could be "less successful". The point I am making, which you apparently don't agree with, is that God wants us to be successful and has given us a perfect recipe for a succesful life, if we will only read and follow it. All people are responsible for where they are in life, a concept you also apparently do not believe.
---Jed on 8/26/11


Some, actually most, reject God and therefore they have made themselves losers.
*****

WHERE is the term loser in Gods Holy Word?

NEVER does Christ or Apostles tell anyone they were "losers" only a bigot would make this inference perverting Holy Scripture to SERVE themselves as being "better than others" because they put on a christian label or are part of a "better" class system

TRUTH is the The Father in Heaven wants ALL to receive salvation ...calling some people who reject God as a "loser" demonstrates the hollow love many self-professing christians share
---Rhonda on 8/26/11


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Jed:

Actually, Geraldine (who posted this topic) did not mention the word "loser". That is the blog topic, which is not chosen by the poster, but rather is chosen by the moderators. There are many blogs whose topics may seem misleading compared to the actual question, since they imply things that the original poster never said.
---StrongAxe on 8/26/11


Geraldine, God's works are always just, because everything He has decreed will happen. It all leads to the final outcome. Prophesy proves that. Everything with a purpose. And His whole plan is before Him for He is outside of time and knows all. Every war had a reason. Every single event which happens, is allowed or permitted to happen, all towards a goal. Whatever competition we have in sports is all man's. Man is always looking for honor and glory. But that too was in the plan of God. Nothing entered His plan without Him been aware of it from the foundation of the world. That is why we call Him God, Omnipotent. There is no One like Him.
---Mark_V. on 8/26/11


Rhonda, I am not the one who chose to use the word "loser". The person who posted this question did, and they were referring to "lower classes" created by democracy. I was simply pointing out that people are where they are in life because of the choices they have made. If people would accept the wisdom of God's word, they may be in a better situation than they are. And to answer your other comment: Yes, God does desire all to know him and be saved. But sadly, not all will. Some, actually most, reject God and therefore they have made themselves losers. "Narrow is the way that leads to life, and few there be that find it." Do you not agree? Do you think you can reject God's ways and be a winner?
---Jed on 8/25/11


...different outcome for those that served God and those who served Satan. You are serving one, and if you think that you can live like hell and get to heaven your sadly mistaken.
*****

living a righteous life following GODS Holy Laws is NOT about being "better" than others

live like "hell" another new-age christian term??

get to heaven??

the REWARD for those who OBEY is to live and rule with Christ on EARTH at HIS return when HE restores Gods Kingdom on earth ruling from Jerusalem

maybe that's why you cannot discern the worlds LABEL of loser from GODS righteous way of living

God wants ALL to receive salvation hence "loser" is still an ignorant term
---Rhonda on 8/25/11


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Absolutes and specifics:
1Cor.10
[7] Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them, as it is written, ...
[8] Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
[9] Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
[10] Neither murmur ye, ...

1Cor. 6
[9] Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
[10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Paul saw the need to teach very specific principles!
---Nana on 8/25/11


Mark_V.:

Parents teach children absolutes. Brush your teeth after every meal. Eat all your vegetables. Don't plug forks into wall sockets. Don't cross in the middle of a street. Don't turn on a light with wet hands. They don't give them explanations, merely absolute commands.

But as adults, as we learn the reasons for these rules, and truly understand the principles behind them, we can discern when such rules apply and when they don't.

The Old Testament was all "thou shalt this" and "thou shalt not that". But in the New Testament, we know the reason for most of these laws was love God and love your neighbor, and with these in mind, hundreds of specific rules are no longer necessary.
---StrongAxe on 8/24/11


Strongaxe, your answer to Jed on 8/22 was very good. You explained clearly. We have an option, to teach the gospel of Christ, or teach the law. We can teach the law so long as it is to bring conviction to an unbeliever, of his rebellion against God. Hebrews 5:12-6:6. This are the first principles of the "oracles of God" which is only the milk, and those who take only the milk are unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. They need to go to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God. People in the O.T. were trying to fulfill the letter of the law as evidence of his repentance, yet the inner man was still dead. Such repentance did not bring salvation.
---Mark_V. on 8/24/11


Jed:

It is impossible to follow all 613 of the laws in the Old Testament. Do a web search for: letter to Dr. Laura. Just one small part of it:

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Lev. 25:44 states that I may buy slaves from the nations that are around us. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans but not Canadians. Can you clarify?

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
---StrongAxe on 8/23/11


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Elena, All glory to God, "so,happy to be alive n share with you here.."
I thank God too, and thank Him for you and your tender and transparent heart. Believe me, you bless others here. it is the heart given to God, much more so then the many words and intellect that the world idolizes, and God sees the heart
---chria9396 on 8/23/11


I want to address the question, (Does God want losers)? Surely he does or else why would he have died for us all.
---mima on 8/23/11


StrongAxe, Yes, we are to follow ALL of God's word. Of course, we are all imperfect and commit sins and will never fully obey God all the time, that's why Jesus died, when we make mistakes. But that doesn't mean we ignore his laws and teachings because we already know we are going to sin! Jesus death did not free us from his law, it freed us from the CURSE of the law, which is death, because he paid the penalty already. That doesn't mean that we can expect God's blessings in life when we are knowingly living outside his will for us.
---Jed on 8/23/11


Chria, yes! the Lord been very good to me... even tho'I don't think about illness, I weep such "joy n peace" n my heart when I be at church! I feel so relieved..There were people always look down on me..so,happy to be alive n share with you here.. Love of Jesus.. ELENA
---ELENA on 8/23/11


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Jed:

The question is, which of "God's Laws" are we supposed to follow? All 613 of the Laws of Moses? Paul wrote specifically about that - nobody is righteous enough to keep the whole law, and anyone who breaks even the smallest point is guilty of all. In contrast, Jesus died to free us from bondage to the law.

Of course, this doesn't give us licence to do what we please. However, if we obey the two commandments Jesus said were most important (love God, and love your neigbor), we will naturally end up behaving the way the Law would want anyway - we would not kill, steal, lie, etc. But note that under Jesus, we do these things we WANT to, not because there's a sword dangling over our heads that will smite us if we don't.
---StrongAxe on 8/22/11


Rhonday, It's sad to be on a Christian blog and see "christians" saying you don't have to follow God's laws and that you can receive the fullness of God's blessings without honoring his ways. Nobody is perfect, but people who try to follow God's laws will receive his blessings. All will find out someday that there is a different outcome for those that served God and those who served Satan. You are serving one, and if you think that you can live like hell and get to heaven your sadly mistaken.
---Jed on 8/22/11


Ckuny "There will also be devout, God-fearing people to whom unfortunate things happen." So true

"Read what Jesus said about such matters in the opening verses of Luke 13."" Amen.
Unfortunately, a spirit of accusation and condemnation, give no light, offer no hope. No one is a loser in Gods eyes. In need of light, light hope, salvation, yes, but he makes all things beautiful, beauty for ashes
---Chria9396 on 8/20/11


There will always be losers in the world because there will always be people that do not want to live by God's rules.
****

wow there goes that pious EMPTY "christian love" again!!!

a loser is simply a label from the world - it is suggestive and dehumanizing ...those who CARELESSLY call others losers demonstrate their ignorance and their I'm better than you attitude

people who do not follow Gods Holy LAWS are not "losers" - Apostles and Christ NEVER implied this

class systems were created by MAN ...seeing GOD wants all to receive salvation one would be antichrist to Holy Scripture claiming some are "losers"
---Rhonda on 8/20/11


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MATTHEW 8,20 And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nest, but the Son of man has no where to lay his head,
---RICHARDC on 8/20/11


Cluny:

Yes, Jesus had some rich and influential friends, but spent MOST of his time with the poor, sick, and destitute, who needed his help, as opposed to the rich and healthy who didn't.
---StrongAxe on 8/20/11


**There will always be losers in the world because there will always be people that do not want to live by God's rules.**

There will also be devout, God-fearing people to whom unfortunate things happen.

Read what Jesus said about such matters in the opening verses of Luke 13.

\\He didn't spend most of his time with religious leaders, rich merchants, and powerful and influential people.\\

Jesus also had rich and influential friends, too. Joseph and Nicodemus were among them.

Men rich enough to own fishing fleets were well off, indeed.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/19/11


WE would have Democracy however! WE have a economic CASTE/CLASS system....
---kevin5443 on 8/19/11


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There will always be losers in the world because there will always be people that do not want to live by God's rules. God gave us commandments because he knows exactly what is best for us and following his laws will keeps us safe, healthy, and successful, each of these things God wants for us. If people will head the bibles teachings about work ethic, marriage, family, and even resting, they will be much better off. But people think they know what is best for themselves and do their own thing and so things don't work out for them the way God wants it to and they blame everyone else for the fact that they are now losers.
---Jed on 8/19/11


If you look at the people Jesus hung out with, they were mostly people we would call "losers". He didn't spend most of his time with religious leaders, rich merchants, and powerful and influential people. He hung out with lepers, prostitutes, tax collectors (i.e. extortionists) and the common folk. He also said that the last would be first, and the first last. He very frequently turned the "established order" on its head.
---StrongAxe on 8/19/11


//There are indeed classes in communism. Party officials are the upper class.//

yep. that is why it will never work. that is why we are being forced there. communism - the polar opposite of communion.
---aka on 8/18/11


Yes Elena, " God takes the simple,the "worst", "the low" transforms to people of God! Royal priesthood,chosen for the master's use to win souls for kingdom of God! Such were many of us before we got saved..." makes me think of 1 Cor 1:27-30. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised thingsand the things that are notto nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him. 30 It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from Godthat is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption."
---Chria9396 on 8/18/11


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\\Democracy without "lower class" is called communism.\\

There are indeed classes in communism. Party officials are the upper class.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/18/11


Well, I completely agree with Cluny on this one.Respect Moderator the title does not fit & all I can say God takes the simple,the "worst", "the low" transforms to people of God! Royal priesthood,chosen for the master's use to win souls for kingdom of God! Such were many of us before we got saved... Love of Jesus
---ELENA on 8/18/11


Democracy without "lower class" is called communism.

i look forward to communion in a theocracy.
---aka on 8/18/11


Being in the "lower class" doesn't mean you are a loser. Lots of "higher class" people are real losers!!!!!
---KarenD on 8/18/11


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1 JOHN 2,16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, AND THE PRIDE OF LIFE, IS NOT OF THE FATHER, but is of the world,
---RICHARDC on 8/18/11


I'm not at all sure just what this question is talking about, and the title the moderator gave it doesn't help.

However, remember that God doesn't think the way we do. Remember how Jesus pointed out that the widow who gave her two mites was the most generous donor to the Temple.

He also said that the last shall be first and the first shall be last.

Glory to Jesus Christ.
---Cluny on 8/18/11


"And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?" Daniel 4:35

"All nations before him are as nothing, and they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity." Isaiah 40:17

"Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?" Romans 9:21

"But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased." Psalm 115:3
---christan on 8/18/11


FEW believers will ever understand the ULTIMATE devotion.

Is your ambition to become the 'BIBLE PERSONIFIED' and conform to TEXT or will you let God's Spirit make you a "living, breathing soul" that is soverign and has conformed to the "image of His son"?

Sports players have a team spirit and they run their race to overcome the competition, but they do it in unity and peace as God meant human fellowship/togetherness to be (we are to enjoy PEACEFUL competition).

The "ultimate" worship ("worship", "devotion", and "relationship" should all be the same thing, integral) is not "obeying orders/commands", it is a "living water" heart of flesh of PEACE.
---more_excellent_way on 8/18/11


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Did you miss the verse that says "God is NOT a respecter of persons"? Did you also miss the teaching that we are not to compare ourselves to each other but only compare ourselves to Christ?

Your only competition is with yourself. Be the best follower of Christ that you can be with the talents and opportunities God has give to YOU.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/18/11


God's involvement in the OT wars was to discipline Israel when they had left God or to show his faithfulness when they remained in Him. Before the Bablyon invasion it says that God's servant Nebuchadnezzer would punish Israel. Meaning that God was still in control even though they were going to be conquered.
As far as competition goes that is just human ego saying "I am better than you."
---Scott1 on 8/18/11


When God directed the Jews to have war and the Jews obeyed God, they creamed the enemy quickly and efficiently. And there was no nonsense, afterward, about how to keep the peace. So, what we see now in most wars and competition is nothing compared to what happens when God chooses who will win and they obey Him.

I think our main problem is our independence which makes us unable to share in close relating with others. We need to deny ourselves (Luke 9:23-24), forgetting about "space" and letting others help us, in order that we can share love which we value more than our own independence > Ephesians 5:21, 1 Peter 5:3.
---Bill_willa6989 on 8/18/11


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