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Can God Break A Promise

Does God keep ALL of His unconditional Promises? Can God break an unconditional promise. If yes, why? If no, why?

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 ---kathr4453 on 9/1/11
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Kathr, again you speak heretical views and a good reason you do is because you do not like me correcting you. You state that the Only Begotten Son of God died. His Begotten Son never died. The man called Jesus in His humanity died for your sins.
"I will tell you a decree: Jehovah said unto Me, Thou art My Son, this day have I begotten Thee" ( Ps. 2:7)
According to this passage, Christ is declared to be the Son of God and begotten in the day of the eternal decree. This is, in effect, a statement that Christ is eternally the Son of God as the decree itself is eternal. His Godly Spirit never died. What you suggest is that Jesus Christ was never God, because God can never die.
---Mark_V. on 9/8/11


Craig, He is the Eternal Son of God, He is the Word, He is the Angel of God or the Angel of the Lord in His Divine nature. His human nature was not Divine. The Old Testament before He had a human body, He was declared as Jehovah, as Elohim, as Adonai, as the Son of God. The Second person is the visible God of the New Testament. Neither the Father nor the Spirit is characteristically revealed in bodily and visible form. While the Father's voice is heard from heaven, and the Holy Spirit is seen descending in the form of a dove, Christ, the Second Person, is the full manifestion of God in visible form.
---Mark_V. on 9/8/11


Off topic but the other one was full....

If Jesus is the eternal Son and not the Word of God like the Bible says, then why does Isaiah call him the eternal Father?

Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
---CraigA on 9/8/11


paul what is your members name?, i canot find you in the friends and penpals
---andy on 9/8/11


Eloy, Covenants are not of equal partners. Contracts on earth are. When a contract is made both are equal parties. But are free to sign it and bargin through the contract.
A Biblical Covenant is not and equal contract, it is a Covenant that God makes with the people. It is not equal parties, how can they be since God is God and man only a vassel? God sets the rules and man has no say in the Covenant. Check the Covenant in Exo. 20. It always begans "I am the Lord you God" God is the Suzerain, and controller of the Covenant. The Second thing in the Covenant is what God has done already for them and so list what He will require of those He rules.
---Mark_V. on 9/8/11




We as believers by faith, are in the Covenant as lawkeepers, for Christ kept the whole law for us. "US" is the elect. Mark_V. on 9/7/11

For the fruit of the spirit is
LOVE, JOY PEACE, Longsuffering, gentelness, kindness ,patience, AGAINST SUCH THERE IS NO LAW and those who are Christ's have CRUCIFIED the flesh with the affections and lusts.

I live by the faith of Christ in me. Is living by the faith of Christ in me the being LAWKEEPERS?? Or does the Law of Liberty fulfill all the law. I live By Grace. I'm KEPT by Grace. Ke's KEEPING ME!

He is able to keep you from falling.

MarkV's LAW is an eye for an Eye..STONE THEM bears false witness against others.
---kathr4453 on 9/8/11


The reason MarkV does NOT believe in the Word who was made Flesh John 1:1-18 is because it states the LAW came by, but Jesus was filled with GRACE AND TRUTH.

The LAW was not made Flesh. The NEW MAN IN CHRIST and the NEW CREATION is not under the Law of Moses, or are we LAWKEEPERS or lords over anyone. However when we walk in the Spirit we don't give way to the flesh or need a schoolmaster over our flesh. THE CROSS puts away our flesh. The Holy Spirit is mortifying our flesh.

MarkV must believe growing up into the fillness and stature of Jesus Christ is growing up into keeping the LAW just a little better than the day before. So each day he is suppose to lie just a little less than the day before?. Hummmm.
---kathr4453 on 9/8/11


Right on Gordon.

Paul
---paul on 9/7/11


MarkV, GOD is a Free-Will BEING. GOD made mankind in HIS Image, with free-will! GOD offers sinful mankind Salvation through HIS Son. Mankind is given the ability and Grace to see his own sinfulness. To choose to repent of sin, and to accept GOD's Gift of Redemption. Then, GOD grants the person Faith, according to the person's willingness to repent and be saved. GOD crams nothing down anyone's throat. The BIBLE is clear, MARK, that GOD is willing that NONE PERISH. HE's not just talking about the "Elect", HE's referring to EVERYONE! Remember! Hell was only originally designed for the Devil and his angels, NOT mankind! GOD planned for no man to go to Hell. Man only goes by his own choice.
---Gordon on 9/7/11


No God cannot break his promises. He is love and truth. It is simply not possible for him to break a promise - conditional or unconditional. It is against his nature. Can water not be wet?
---Rocky on 9/7/11




No, God cannot break a promise - conditional or unconditional. He is truth and love. It simply would be against his nature. Can water not be wet?
---Rocky on 9/7/11


Eloy 2: The third thing God mentions is the blessings and curses that come from that Covenant. The Lord list the benefits that He will bestow upon His vassels if they follow the stipulations of the Covenant. God will deliver His promise if they obey. The Covenant also presents curses should the people fail in their responsibilities. God warned Israel He will not hold them guiltless if they fail to honor His name. God sets the conditions. Man has broken His Covenant as we know that all of the Lost are in a Covenant of works as lawbreakers. We as believers by faith, are in the Covenant as lawkeepers, for Christ kept the whole law for us. "US" is the elect. All those saved already and all who will come to Christ at a later time.
---Mark_V. on 9/7/11


God only establishes covenants with his people, Moses doesn't.
---Luke on 9/7/11


MarkV, As one who is fully God and Fully man, as the only BEGOTTEN, being OPPOSITE from CREATED, I certainly can. MarkV again it is YOU who denies the Christ of Scripture.

YOU don't believe in the ONLY BEGOTTEN Son who died for our sin. The PERFECT Lamb of God.

That's only the beginning of a long list of things you don't believe in.

Shall I post all those things you don't believe?

You don't believe Jesus was made SIN for us. You don't believe sanctification comes through suffering, and you don't believe in our identification with Jesus in death and resurrection life. It's YOU who fail to see the difference between His Divine and Human nature.I just showed you here the differences YOU DENY by your own testimony.
---kathr4453 on 9/7/11


Moses ESTABLISHED this Covenant in the Old,
through Jesus Death and Resurrection Partially fulfilled this EXACT same Covenant in NEW...Heb 13:20-21.
Final Fulfillment is exactly as you say in Heb 8, Romans 11.
---kathr4453 on 9/7/11

Partially?? Would think in Whole. Christianity has been a blessing-light to every nation.
Psa105:10
He confirmed it to Jacob as a decree, to Israel as an everlasting covenant:
Isa 54:8
In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment, but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer.
Jer31:36
If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
---Trav on 9/7/11


Kathr, you can laugh all you want and make up stories about the Lord Jesus Christ but that does not change you from been a heretic. You are not of the Christian faith. No matter how holy you want to sound. You cannot tell the difference between the Divine nature and the human nature of Jesus Christ. You pervert your answers intentionally, mixing both natures to prove your point. But people like you have been around for centuries and when you are gone someone will take your place. That I do know. People might think I'm been mean to you, but you teach a created Son. And as long as you do, you are an enemy to the Christian faith.
It be great if you did not understand it, but that is not good enough, you teach against the Son of the Living God.
---Mark_V. on 9/7/11


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Eloy, God raised Jesus from the dead through the BLOOD of teh EVERLASTING COVENANT and I'm really sorry Eloy, but YOU had no part in that whatsoever.

Hebrews 13:20-21.

And God promises those who receive Jesus Christ through teh BLOOD of THIS Covenant that HE will save to teh UTMOST those who put their faith in Him.

He is the SURETY of the Covenant and GUARANTEER of this Covenant!

That's why we are called Children of PROMISE. God gave this to Abraham BY PROMISE, not CONDITION!
---kathr4453 on 9/7/11


markv, I care not for your opposition. The covenant between God and man is indeed 100% a contract, and when man chooses to break the contract then the other party, namely God, is no longer bound by that covenant. Unless both walk in agreement there is zero covenant, and zero fellowship. Yet noncompliant man delusionally thinks, God promised "unconditionally" to be my benefactor or my blesser and my Father, when in truth he made no such unqualified promise. He sets before us blessing AND CURSING, life AND DEATH, heaven AND HELL, and according to what we chooses determines our current and future state. And we know them by their fruits that they bear: I will say Yes, and the sinner will say No, and when I say No, the sinner will say Yes.
---Eloy on 9/7/11


kathr4453, God makes every command to man conditional. Covenant means Contract, a Contract between two "Consenting" parties. Every single word that my God speaks is qualified. Even nature teaches us that there is "cause and effect". Therefore when God says, Obey me then I will bless you, that is Conditional: likewise, when he says, them who disobey me I will condemn, that also is Conditional, always and at all times. God Does Not Honor evil people, nor will he welcome them into his holiness and blessings. First you must Do, that is Repent from sin and Obey God, until then the Condition is that you will remain condemned and eventually you will be cast into hell fire for your NonCovenanting or Covenant-breaking with God.
---Eloy on 9/7/11


[W]hom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God (Romans 3:25).

Wherefore it behooved him in all things to be made like unto his brethren, that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people (Hebrews 2:17).

And he is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world (1 John 2:2).

Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins (1 John 4:10).
---kathr4453 on 9/7/11


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Trav, I put that question out there to make one THINK, as You did here.

Jesus came throught the Line of JUDAH, therefore JUDAH was not divorced.

Now, as some still don't understand the initial question, is Genesis 3:15 conditional?

God ANNOUNCED in Genesis 3:15 His Everlasting Covenant
to Abraham REVEALED more of this SAME Covenant,
Through Moses ESTABLISHED this Covenant in the Old,
and through Jesus Death and Resurrection Partially fulfilled this EXACT same Covenant in the NEW...Hebrews 13:20-21.

The Final Fulfillment is exactly as you say in Hebrews 8, Romans 11.
---kathr4453 on 9/7/11


If God truly divorced Israel before Jesus was born, wouldn't that make His Son, born of a Virgin, also scripture says, teh son of David, born OUTSIDE of that Covenant Promise?
---kathr4453 on 9/7/11

Interesting point. Two reasons. You presume Judah/Benjamin = All Israel. Judah/Benjamin were not divorced. Northern house of ten was.

When Christ died... Judah/Benjamin not married anymore. Nth House were freed, Virgins...Ten.

Judah didn't accept.

New Covenant reads:
Heb 8:8.....House of Israel "and" with the house of Judah....
Heb 8:10 laws in heart.... Seems to exclude Judah...notably seen by the marks/signs we know.

Didn't you say you were Judean one time?
---Trav on 9/7/11


The word 'propitiation' means 'an expiation, a means whereby sin is covered and remitted' (Vine's Dictionary). What then is the means by which our sins are remitted? At the Last Supper Jesus said, 'For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins' (Matthew 26:28). Jesus accomplished the remitting of our sins by shedding His blood for us. Therefore, He is the propitiation for our sins--the means by which our sins are remitted.


WOW MarkV, propitiation does not mean Jesus kept the Law.
---kathr4453 on 9/7/11


If God truly divorced Israel before Jesus was born, wouldn't that make His Son, born of a Virgin, also scripture says, teh son of David, born OUTSIDE of that Covenant Promise? Would that make teh Promises to Abraham totally null and void?
---kathr4453 on 9/7/11


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A covenant is not an equal Contract. God is the "suzerain" the people are the vassels. The Covenant of works ask for total obedience. In all the other Covenants obedience is still required. Even though God required total obedience under the Covenant of works, obey, have life, disobey get death, no one could keep the law. They brake one, they brake them all, that's why there is no salvation by works of the law. Every descendant of Adam in found guilty. They need a Redeemer. Only through(Jesus Christ) who kept the whole law, can save them. He is the propitiation for our sins. For those who place their faith in Jesus Christ works. All those who do, are the Elect. Who were chosen from the foundation of the world. Eph. 1:4-6.
---Mark_V. on 9/7/11


Trav, I am not female and I belong to a denomination that forbids women to be pastors, elders and even deacons.
---leej on 9/6/11

Forgive me old mind. My confusion, from some old posting with another Lee.

Sounds like your church is legalistic on this. They should be. Men should be men, leaders protectors in their GOD given duties.

I've never found a place where it said women were not mentally able to do these duties. It's not GOD's order.
Your Church and Francis's have more in common that you know.
What is your denom flavor?
---Trav on 9/7/11


//Israel...broke it. Divorce opened her eyes/ears.// trav

correct. and as pointed out, God did certainly divorced Israel or better yet the people of Israel.

divorce is very personal. to say that he divorced a nation and not the people of a nation is equivocation born from the halo effect. in the body of Christ, who makes up the body? in the nation of Israel, who makes up the nation?

To answer the question. Yes, God does keep all of His Covenants and if a covenant and its by-laws are enforced by God, it is because of man, who broke the covenant.
---aka on 9/7/11


Or a Leej, when she honors the prophets eventually.
Leej has wasted a lot of time on studying SDA's. Someone has wasted a lot of time on her denom...disecting it i'm sure.

Trav, I am not female and I belong to a denomination that forbids women to be pastors, elders and even deacons.
---leej on 9/6/11


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Doesn't Jeremiah clearly say that God divorced Israel? Yes, AS A NATION, but not as His people. This Scripture must be reconciled with Hosea's refusal to divorce Gomer and the Scriptures in Romans 11:1-5. God divorced the NATION of Israel (as termination of a business agreement) but NOT His children (saved Jews). God never forsakes His own (Hebrews 13:5). Because of Israel's rebellion, God instead decided to turn to the Gentiles to do His business of preaching the Gospel (and they did) but God never divorced His own.
---kathr4453 on 9/6/11


Isa 48:11 For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will "not" give my glory unto another.

12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called, I am he, I am the first, I also am the last.

Isa50:1
Thus saith the LORD, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, for your transgressions is your mother put away.

Jer 3:8
I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, given her a bill of "divorce", yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not.....
---Trav on 9/6/11


Jer. 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce, yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
---Nana on 9/6/11


AKA, Oh what a great question. And what I love too is, are you saying Jacob IS Israel, or is Jacob here just plain ol individual Jacob? Because to really get to the bottom of your statemennt, we have to ask, did God chose Jacob for salvation or SERVICE, and is Jacob who God divorced, or did God Divorce Israel.

I know SOME of the branches were broken off, but are ALL the branches broken off? Romans 11?
---kathr4453 on 9/6/11


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God divorced Israel.
Did God break an unconditional covenant or is marriage conditional?
---aka on 9/5/11

Israel...broke it. Divorce opened her eyes/ears.
Gen 17:7
I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
Psalm 105:10
confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant:
Isa 45:17But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
Isa 54:8In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment, but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer.
---Trav on 9/6/11


There are many people who foolishly teach that God divorced Israel, but He certainly did not. In Isaiah 50:1, God is asking Israel if He has ever been unfaithful? God reminds the Jews that He has never divorced Israel, but Israel did abandon God. There was NO bill of divorce because God never gave it to them. God never divorced Israel. God was hurt and angry because Israel had abandoned Him.

Romans 11 clearly teach that God did NOT divorce Israel...


ALA, do you have a right to your X wife's bed? Would any children then be conceived in sin?
---kathr4453 on 9/6/11


God divorced Israel.

Did God break an unconditional covenant or is marriage conditional?
---aka on 9/5/11


If God can break a PROMISE then it wouldn't be called a PROMISE in the first place.

But we do see so much divorce today, those who PROMISE to love until death do we part, really have not made such a promise at all. They've only given lip service to their FELINGS of that moment.

However God never changes, and is not driven by emotions, but by His Sovereign will, revealed through His Covenants through the Word.

Thank you all for your answers.

I see Christan, who is a Calvinist does ALSO believe that God cannot break his unconditional promises. AMEN!
---kathr4453 on 9/5/11


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A final queston for MarkV. You state you are the elect as Jacob, where God chose, neither having done any good or evil, but based solely on God's election, God's sovereign right to do as He wills. Can you tell us what Covenannt then is so unconditional that YOU got Chosen before you were even born while othres were chosen for Hell. OR was it a conditional covenant that you were chosen, or were you chosen outside of any covenent at all?

However you answer brings up many problems and issues of your previous statements concerning election.

Is Election then conditional or unconditional?

What Conditions exactly did Jacob have to do in order to be chosen?

Or what conditions did he have to do to STAY Chosen?
---kathr4453 on 9/5/11


Aka, thank you for your response. I love hearing from you. I believe you and I believe that defending the Eternal Son of God is one, if not, the most important doctrine a Christian believer should believe in. For it is one of the ESSENTAIL'S of the Christian faith. This subject has been faught for centuries against heretics who teach against His Deity. Many doctrines are important, but if someone does not teach the Truth it should be defended. I can understand many not knowing the subject, but to teach against the Eternal Sonship of Christ, makes someone an antichrist. And people should know that. Because they have a purpose not against what I say, but what the Word of God says.
---Mark_V. on 9/5/11


To everyone here who likes to use up discussion space to argue with each other, do your arguing in private e-mails and leave the 75 post limit open to those who have something constructive to add. God cannot break ANY of His promises because to do so would make Him a liar.
---tommy3007 on 9/5/11


Genesis 15 is an unconditional covenent with Abraham. The only time both parties of a covenant would pass between the pieces of animals was when the fulfillment of the covenant was dependent upon both parties keeping commitments. The significance of God alone moving between the halves of the animals is a smoking furnace and a flaming torch, representing God, not Abraham, which passed between the pieces. A conditional covenent would be shared by both parties, but in this case therre is no doubt this covenant is an unconditional sovereign promise by God. He is the one who binds Himself. God caused a sleep to fall on Abraham so that he would not be able to pass between the two halves. Fulfillment of the covenant fell to God alone. Heb 6:13-18
---kathr4453 on 9/5/11


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Conditional Covenants are based upon the free will of man. IF YOU WILL THEN I WILL

However Unconditional covenants are not based upon man or man's free will. In these Unconditional Sovereign promises of God TO MAN He will do what he promises to do, in spite of man, nothing or no one can twart His Purposes.

17Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:

18That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

Faith is not works, FAITH is Believing what God Promised.
---kathr4453 on 9/5/11


MarkV, who's lying now. My Faith is in teh ONLY BEGOTTENN SON, not a created one, or one that was begotten twice or generated from God from THE beginning. Isaiah 43:10-11.

Generated meaning that of procreated.

I believe the only ones who died were murdered because thy did not believe in the reformed definition of the Trinity. Yet we see no such thing with all of Acts or anywhere in scripture YOUR definition of a generated preexisting begotten son.

The only ones who have been BEGOTTEN AGAIN, TWICE, are those frist born of man, and Born Again of God through Jesus Christ.
---kathr4453 on 9/5/11


//Kathr, you sure know how to lie about me. // MarkV

Kathr and MarkV arguin' in a tree...





get it over with...invite me to the wedding...let the baby come after that.
---aka on 9/4/11


Kathr 2: There comes a time when you will have to decide before you die, who you will put your faith in. You either put your faith in the eternal Son of God whom the Father send in order to be a Christian, or you will decide to put your faith in a created son. It's your choice not mine.
As I said before this might not be important to you now, yet it will save your soul. Thousands have died to make sure you got that Truth. You do have a choice. Come to the real Christ and you will never regret it.
---Mark_V. on 9/4/11


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Here is another, Romans 8..

Neither life or death powers or principalities etc etc can separate us from the LOVE of God in Christ.
---kathr4453 on 9/4/11

How does that reconcile with Is 59:1-2 or Eze 18:24 or Jer 3:8 their are many other indicators.

Nothing can separate you from the Love God has for you, it is an everlasting love.

But love is not salvation, God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked for if they are His creation He loves them, He is no respecter of persons.

He made a way through His love for their redemption but they chose to reject it and His LOVE.

Paul
---paul on 9/4/11


Kathr, you sure know how to lie about me. Lose salvation, what nonesense, that goes against my believes. You want to speak very religious as if you believed in the eternal Son of God but you don't. You deny He was ever eternal. And your denial is proof of who you are. You can go on and on with your religious talk but it is only talk. Sounding religious does not make you a believer in the eternal Son of God. To you He was created a Son and you cannot change that fact until the Father reveals to you the Truth. You also mentioned that John MacArthur did not believe in the eternal Son of God but that was over twenty years ago. He does now, and you know why? Because the Father revealed it to him.
---Mark_V. on 9/4/11


For those who place their faith in Jesus Christ works.
---Mark_V. on 9/4/11

MarkV, I don't put my faith in Jesus works of keep the Law to be saved. I placed my faith in the Finished works of the CROSS where He fulfilled the Law that required DEATH ( the wages of sin is death) ( and in Adam all die) who paid the penalty for my sin, who took God's wrath for me. Jesus didn't have to die to keep the Law of Moses.He Died because the Law of Moses/ADAM required death.

He was raised again BECAUSE God accepted the Perfect sacrifice of Himself. And His Risen life is that eternal life given to all who believe in Him, QUICKENED together with Him and Raised a New Creature forever forgiven, forever given eternal life IN HIM.HEBREWS 2 and 10
---kathr4453 on 9/4/11


Here is another, Romans 8..

Neither life or death powers or principalities etc etc can separate us from the LOVE of God in Christ.

Kind of like a Covenant of Marriage wouldn't you say.

OR is the Covenant of Marriage conditional, based on obedience.

When many today want a COVENANT Marriage, because of so much divorce, what exactly are they saying...

I believe it means NO MATTER WHAT, I will love you with an everlasting Love and NOTHING can change that Love or committment to you.

The Everlasting Covenant is a Covenant of EVERLASTING LOVE, that nothing we can ever do can separate us from the love of God that ALONE IS IN CHRIST.

I stand IN CHRIST in His Righteousness, not my own!
---kathr4453 on 9/4/11


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One such Covenant promise is " Il will never leave you or forsake you. YET Markv, in agreement here with Eloy that one can lose their salvation and that Jesus will leave you if you disobey is very interesting. On what condition will He Leave you? OH but you say, He cannot. Is that based on YOU or HIM?

So not only did you WORK for your salvation by begging for it, but continue to WORK by relying on yourself to keep it.

I believe MarkV and Eloy have more in common then even they realize.

So MarkV on what condition will Jesus leave and Forsake one who has placed their faith in Him????
---kathr4453 on 9/4/11


Kathr, Eloy explained it very well with the exception of when he said it was an equal contract. It's not an equal Contract. God is the "suzerain" the people are the vassels. In the Covenant of works was total obedience. In all the other Covenants obedience is still required as Eloy said. Even though He required total obedience under the Covenant of works, obey, have life, disobey get death, no one can keep the law. They brake one, they brake them all, that's why there is no salvation by works of the law. Every descendant of Adam in found guilty. They need a Redeemer. Someone who could keep the whole law for them since they could not. He is the propitiation for our sins. For those who place their faith in Jesus Christ works.
---Mark_V. on 9/4/11


All human beings since Adam are inescapably members of this Covenant. People may refuse to believe or obey such a Covenant, but they can never escape it.
---Mark_V. on 9/3/11

All menbers of humanity are members of Adam's BROKEN Covenant and cannot escape it.

NOW God established after that a Covenant which Abel obeyed. A BLOOD sacrifice to COVER man's sin until the LAMB of God shed His own Blood once and for all for tHE sin of all man who died with Adam.
no man CAN today keep and obey teh Covenant God made with Adam. Where's the Garden, where are the trees. Are you saying all men are born individually SINLESS?.
---kathr4453 on 9/4/11


kathr4453, God makes every command to man conditional. Covenant means Contract, a Contract between two "Consenting" parties. Every single word that my God speaks is qualified. Even nature teaches us that there is "cause and effect". Therefore when God says, Obey me then I will bless you, that is Conditional: likewise, when he says, them who disobey me I will condemn, that also is Conditional, always and at all times. God Does Not Honor evil people, nor will he welcome them into his holiness and blessings. First you must Do, that is Repent from sin and Obey God, until then the Condition is that you will remain condemned and eventually you will be cast into hell fire for your NonCovenanting or Covenant-breaking with God.
---Eloy on 9/3/11


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Kathr 2: Every human being is in a Covenant relationship to God, either as Covenant breakers or Covenant keepers. The Covenant of works is the basis for our need of redemption. One single sin is enough to violate the covenant of works.
Because Adam fell into sin, God, in His mercy, added a new Covenant of Grace by which salvation became possible and actual. Only One Human Being has ever kept the Covenant of works, that person was Jesus. His work as the second Adam fulfilled all the terms of our original covenant with God. His merit in achieving this is available to all who put their trust in Him.
---Mark_V. on 9/4/11


Josef, AMEN. MarkV, if man is still under a covenant God made with Adam & Eve, then man is still under a covenant of WORKS...is that what you are saying? So Jesus Christ has become of no effect to you at all, is that what you are saying?

If ALL covenants are conditional markv, please show first WHAT condition was given to Noah.

And I believe the EVERLASTING Covenant was made before the foundation of the world between God, the Word and the Holy Spirit, who knew man would disobey and sin. And we also know MarkV, man cannot save themselves. And we both agree OSAS. Is OSAS then a conditional covenant promise based on YOUR obedience or God's PROMISES?
---kathr4453 on 9/4/11


MarkV, I also believe once I am in Christ, and have identified with Jesus Christ in death and resurrection life, I am judicially DEAD to anything in Adam1. I'm a NEW CREATURE In Christ. My OLD MAN who was once in adam1 is dead and gone. Romans 5-6. Galatians 6, Colossians 3:1-4, and I'm also crucified to the world and the world to me.

Whether God promised Adam & Eve ETERNAL LIFE is questionable, since they did not eat the fruit of the tree of eternal life, we know THAT eternal life was never promised to be with God IN CHRIST a Joint heir, seated ABOVE teh Angels. But one who would always be below the angels. Hebrews 2.
---kathr4453 on 9/4/11


Kathr, All Covenants are conditional. When Adam and Eve were created they stood in a moral relationship with God, their Creator. They possessed a duty of obedience to Him without any claim to reward. In His love, He entered into a Covenant with Adam and Eve by which He added a promise of blessing to His law, eternal life for obedience, death for disobedience. This was not a Covenant of equal partners, but one that rested on God's initiative and His divine authority. In this Covenant God required perfect and total obedience, but threatened mankind with death for disobeying God's law. All human beings since Adam are inescapably members of this Covenant. People may refuse to believe or obey such a Covenant, but they can never escape it.
---Mark_V. on 9/3/11


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"Does God keep ALL of His unconditional Promises?" Yes.
Why? "All the promises of God in him [are] 'yea', assured, and in him 'Amen', firm, unto the glory of God by us." 2Cr 1:20
And in Him "there is no variation or shadow of turning." Jam 1:17
"God is not a man, so he does not lie. He is not human, so he does not change his mind. Has he ever spoken and failed to act? Has he ever promised and not carried it through?" Num 23:19 NLT
---josef on 9/3/11


Eloy, God's Promises to man are through Covenants. His Promise to Noah, was called as He stated, This is my Covenant with you. Genesis 9:12-16 clearly state a COVENANTpromise that is totally UNCONDITIONAL.

All God's Promises are within a Covenant. And God only deals with man through Covenants. Some Covenants are conditional, and some are UNconditional.
---kathr4453 on 9/3/11


I'd first ask you, why God would have to break a promise?

Think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

If God can make children from stones, why ask?

But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness, and all these things shall be added unto you.
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

Believe ye that I am able to do this? They said unto him, Yea, Lord.
And
Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
---TheSeg on 9/2/11


kathr4453, Declaring the end from the beginning is not an unconditional promise, but rather it is God prophesying that he will return to rapture the innocent from the hands of the nonChristians. The Salvation of the New Covenant is participatorial, a contract between God and man: God gives the commandment and if you obey then you are saved, and if you disobey then you are damned. So man's part in the covenant or contract is obedience, else there is no covenant for man but only damnation. God's New Covenant is Christ- Obey him and you have Salvation, but Reject him then he rejects you and you remain condemned. God does not force any perishing soul to grab hold of his Life Preserver, that's your free choice to do, to be saved or to be condmened.
---Eloy on 9/2/11


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God's Word if true. God keeps all HIS promises. He does not have to keep the promises that people think HE made.
---KarenD on 9/2/11


TRAV I said:"trav i can see indeed that your starting to improve, For it is by grace we are saved through faith".

upon which you replied Ha. Your arrogance is only superceded by your purposeful ignorance.
I AM SO GLAD THAT AT LEAST YOU LIVE OUT WHAT GOD'S WORD tells US
Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you,
Luke 6:28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

I CAN SEE NOW that indeed you live by Christ's rules.
BUT DON'T Worry I am praying the Lord's prayer on the cross for you.
---andy3996 on 9/2/11


ALL God's promises to man are conditional. IF we continue to live as HE expects, ALL His promises for us will stand. IF we change in our godly conduct to bad/evils things, we should not expect God's good promises to come to us(Prophet Eli's example). But HIS promises concerning the earth & its end & judgement stands sure.
---Adetunji on 9/2/11


trav i can see indeed that your starting to improve,
For it is by grace we are saved through faith.
---andy3996 on 9/1/11

Ha. Your arrogance is only superceded by your purposeful ignorance.

What you see is me dusting my feet of your bogus ministry of andy.
Amen.
Psalm 119:104
Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.
Psalm 144:11
Rid me, and deliver me from the hand of strange children, whose mouth speaketh vanity, their right hand is a right hand of falsehood:
Jeremiah 7:19
Do they provoke me to anger? saith the LORD: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces?
---Trav on 9/2/11


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Eloy, I believe an UNCONDITIONAL Promise is based on God's Promises having nothing to do with man.

Jesus is coming back one day whether man lkes it or not. And there is nothing man can do to STOP it, or make it happen any faster than planned.

The New Covenant again is based on not what man does or doesn't, but what Jesus Christ did for us we could never do for ourselves. When I read Exekiel 36, I see all of what God said I WILL DO, in spite of man.

Read Ex 36, and tell me how many times I WILL is stated and how many times "IF" is stated.
---kathr4453 on 9/2/11


Kathr, Please elaborate or detail on what you think are unconditional promises from God.
---Eloy on 9/2/11


Right off the top of my head I can think of many unconditional promises:

Genesis 3:15 is not conditioned on anything you do.

God's promise to Noah that He will never destroy the earth again with water/flood. No Condition there on man's part.

God promised Abraham and Sarah a son of their own. And althouth Abraham and Sarah faltered, God still fulfilled His Promise.

God promised to send a redeemer/savior and it did not depend on man's faithfulness or obedience.

ok, that's just a few.
---kathr4453 on 9/1/11


NO but every prommise is conditional
example For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son that so tha ................ but have eternal life

What is the condition for us to be saved?
Cor 8:9 for you know the grace ...... talking about prosperity (in every facet of life not just money)
condition GIVE TO GOD etcetera etcetera

MANY want the prommise but dont want the condition

GRACE ABOUNDS (shouting like a prophet)
---andy3996 on 9/1/11


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I FORGOT TO FINISH:::

Therfore we should rather ask ARE THERE ANY unconditional promisses in the bible. now a condition does not equal law

can anyone give an example of any uncoditional prommise of GOD?
remember faith is the condition for salvation,
repentance is the condition for God's acceptance...
to forgive is the condition of receiving forgiveness... etcetera.
I know that i only said 1% of what should have been said so please BARE my briefness and do not be offended by it
(shouting as if i was a prophet)
---andy3996 on 9/1/11


God is not a man that He should lie, nor the Son of Man that He should repent....has He not said it? and will He not do it?

The problem lies in what we think or believe God is saying to us or our own interpretation of scriptures...the error is us, not Him.
---Donna5535 on 9/1/11


If He were gonna break it,
He never would'a stated it.
---Elder on 9/1/11


What He promises works with how He has us obeying Him, so He can lead us to all that His promises mean > "The LORD will guide you continually," we have in Isaiah 58:11. There are people who claim that God won't guide them in every detail, and so they keep clear of how He could be "continually" guiding them to all He means by His promises. "For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind." (2 Timothy 1:7) Ones do not first trust God to give us "a sound mind." And so we can miss out on His guarantee of "rest for your souls." (in Matthew 11:29)
---Bill_willa6989 on 9/1/11


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God's covenants are real, unbreakable and eternal, period!

"God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord." 1 Cor 1:19, "Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it." 1 Thess 5:24, "But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil." 2 Thess 3:3, "If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself." 2 Tim 2:13

Only the fallen creature, called mankind is unfaithful and breaks all the laws of God. Doubt your own unfaithfulness but never ever doubt God's faithfulness.
---christan on 9/1/11


No!! Almighty God can not break a promise. Understanding this truth will give you great peace and patience are faith. Both the physical and spiritual worlds rest on this truth. Here is a statement made three times in the Bible." Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved!" Based on God's unchangeable word by calling on the name of the Lord you can be saved.
---mima on 9/1/11


God is TRUTH,

If He speaks something we perceive to be an untruth through our understanding, that does not compute as the truth to us, what He spoke becomes the truth or should to us.

Gods promises are ya and amen and they are always followed through.

Paul
---paul on 9/1/11


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