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Back Slidden Heaven Bound

If you claim to be a Christian, and break the ten commandments daily, and on your death bed ask for forgiveness, will Jesus forgive?

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 ---Lou_lou on 9/6/11
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Ezekiel 3:18 "When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die, and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life, the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at thine hand."

Apparently some of these self called 'elect' may find themselves serving time with those who "will get their just reward in hell."
Matthew 18:11 "For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost." Did he not instruct his disciples to do the same?
Why do Christan and MarkV waste so much time just talking about the lost and discounting them?
---Nana on 9/20/11


No ones names were written in the Book of Life BEFORE the foundation of the world, but scripture says FROM the foundation of the world. So from Adam and Eve to Abel to today names are written in the Lambs Book of Life, those who have placed their faith in Jesus Christ.
It will be said, For God so loved the world( sinners) that He gave His only begotten Son, that who so ever believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.
The ONLY sin is rejecting the gift of Eternal LIFE through Jesus Christ, and thats why their names arent written in the Lambs book of Life.
MarkV, you can growl and snarl like an animal all you want!
---kathr4453 on 9/20/11


Trav, To redeem THEM that WERE UNDER LAW would certainly EXCLUDE YOU wouldn't it?

Are you saying only Jews, teh physical descendents of Jacob were purchased with the Blood of Jesus Christ?

Well according to Ephesians Gentiles TOO were brought near by the Blood of Jesus Christ.

And God made out of the two, IN CHRIST ONE NEW MAN. So I believe we can dispense with the idea that only Israel will be saved trav.
---kathr4453 on 9/20/11


Kathr, your own twisting of words only gives prove of your lack of Truth. Because "the reason it makes you ill is because you said those words," none of us did. You get ill by your own words. You know why? because you know you speak heretical views, yet continue without remorse. all heretics do, the reason they are called heretics. Here is what you said,
"So Christan and MarkV are saying at the great white throne Judgement Jesus is going to say to the lost, I NEVER LOVED YOU?"
What He will say at the Great White Throne of Judgment, I do not know. All I know is that the books will be opened, and they will get their just reward in hell.
---Mark_V. on 9/20/11


MarkV, Bless you, just seeking fuller understanding, and that primarily of Him. In past, I've had trouble reconciling Rom 3:11 with Deut 4:29, prov 8:17, Jer 29:13. Also Acts 17:26-27 "From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth, and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us."
We don't know who will be saved as God does, and I believe we ought to be ready to share the gospel, the love of God with all, thus my concern. I've written lots more, but not done. I often write a lot that I don't post,ends up beneificial for my own use/study.
---chria9396 on 9/20/11




The same thing could apply to someone who puts it off, and then gets hit by a truck and never regains consciousness.
---StrongAxe on 9/19/11

Esau tried it.

Heb 12:16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.

17.. when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.
Luke 10:22
All things are delivered to me of my Father:no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father, and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.
John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: I will raise him up at the last day.
---Trav on 9/20/11


Sorry trav, This is the pudding!
---kathr4453 on 9/19/11


No need to be sorry, puddykat, you understand reconcile now anyway...through provocation.
Ms teacher what about Redeem:
Gal 4:5
To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Luke 1:68
Blessed be the Lord God of Israel, for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
Isaiah 62:12
And they shall call them, The holy people, The redeemed of the LORD: and thou shalt be called, Sought out, A city not forsaken.
Zechariah 10:8
I will hiss for them, and gather them, for I have redeemed them: and they shall increase as they have increased.
---Trav on 9/19/11


THIS is the message of the Cross.

Sorry trav, This is the pudding!

2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them, and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Romans 5:10
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
---kathr4453 on 9/19/11


Lou_lou:

This is less a matter of "will Jesus forgive", and more of one "will the dying person repent?"

I once read a story about a man who was on his deathbed and in great distress. When he was younger, he said that he could live the fun life and then repent on his deathbed, and go to heaven. But when that time came, he wanted to repent but couldn't. He ended up dying in agony.

The same thing could apply to someone who puts it off, and then gets hit by a truck and never regains consciousness.
---StrongAxe on 9/19/11


Reconciled, means to be made ready before hand, to put together in advance.
The PROOF is in the Pudding.
---kathr4453 on 9/19/11

Reconcile:1. To reestablish a close relationship between. 2. To settle or resolve.

The term is relative with GOD and Israel...both Houses. As is redeem,everlasting,for-ever.
Ezekiel 45:20
And so thou shalt do the seventh day of the month for every one that erreth, and for him that is simple: so shall ye reconcile the house.

20And so thou shalt do the seventh day of the month for every one that erreth, and for him that is simple: so shall ye reconcile the house.


Your pudding.
Isaiah 45:4
For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, ...
---Trav on 9/19/11




Reconciled, means to be made ready before hand, to put together in advance.
It does not mean Justified.
God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself.
IT does NOT say, God was in Christ Justifying the Elect to Himself.
And He has Given is the word of Reconciliation. He never gave us the power of Justification.
We are to be witnesses in this world that God beforehand put together in advance a way back to God through Christ.
And those who do not preach this are not Gods elect but Satans puppets!
The PROOF is in the Pudding. Anyone can claim they are the Elect, but WHAT PROOF do they have? BRAGGING? Telling you the opposite of what scripture tells you?
---kathr4453 on 9/19/11


"For it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure" Phil. 2:13markV//


MarkV markV markV, WHY always the cart before the horse?

That is a promise to those WHO have received Jesus Christ and KNOW Him and have surrendered their life to Him.

And you say YOU did this before you were ever born.

Talking about TWISTING scripture.
---kathr4453 on 9/19/11


Lou-lou... seven times seventy.

That means his forgiveness never stops. What you have to ask yourself is "Am I really committed to following Christ?" If youre abusing his grace by purposely sinning because you know he'll forgive you later on, thats called mocking God! That is dangerous ground.

Jesus never withholds forgiveness from a repentant heart. What you have to determine is if you are truly repentant. We can't judge that for you (though many here will try).
---CraigA on 9/19/11


dowanor:
But Luke 23:42,43 we see a deathbed talk with Jesus where criminal on the cross next to Jesus said:

"Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.
And Jesus said to him, Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise."

Did you note that criminal called Jesus "Lord"?

But the demons referred to in James2:19 don't.
Yet they "believe there is one God".

Our works (John 6:29) is to believe on Jesus.

Regarding your concerns about people's wrong behaviors in life, consider that neither King David (with his adultery/murder) nor the criminal on the cross next to Jesus, profited from their wrong.
But it did not affect their salvation either.
---Haz27 on 9/19/11


So Christan and MarkV are saying at the great white throne Judgement Jesus is going to say to the lost, I NEVER LOVED YOU?

Oh my. This kind of talk on here makes me ill. For GOD so loved the world GOD GAVE His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Himm will not perish but have eternall life.

I never KNEW you does not mean I never loved you. How horrible.

KNOW here is that of a Husband KNOWING His Wife intimitely. Jesus didn't KNOW anyone before they were born. Folks that is mormon teaching.

If you don't open your heart and receive Him in, there is no consumation of any relationship. And believe me, it isn't done via rape!
---kathr4453 on 9/19/11


Chria, the passage " I never knew you" God knows His elect only as His from the foundation of the world.
"For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son.....Moreoever whom He predestined, these He also called: whom He called, these He also justified, and whom He justified, these He also glorified" (Rom. 8:29-30). Knew, predestined, called, justified, glorified Paul uses the past tense for a future event to stress it certainty (v. 18,21: 2 Tim. 2:10).
You said:
" .... especially those seeking"
Romans 3:11 tells us,
".... There is none who seeks after God"
If they seek God, it is because God has already changed their hearts.
---Mark_V. on 9/19/11


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Kathr I don't know how you can twist what you say so easy. The fact that they were granted faith is what counts. Whether they are gentiles at the time or Jews. Without Him granting faith they would not believe. So it is God who grants the faith to believe. And every single believer through history suffers for Christ.
"For it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure" Phil. 2:13.
It is all of God, while you want to give credit to man. Christ is the Author and finisher of anyone genuine saving faith.
---Mark_V. on 9/19/11


MarkV, Christan equated knew with love in the statement The declaration of "I never knew you" would simply mean "I never loved you". This is a situation in which I would like to know more of the Hebrew or Greek origins of both love and knew. In my mind, to know is equated with a certain intimacy, and thus might also be a certain type love. Your words God loved the world He created, but He doesn't love every individual the same. , seem to say much the same as what I have been trying to say, The same being key. Christans statement may be true when speaking of one type of love but not another many may not differentiate. I believe it critical that people know that God loves them, especially those seeking,
---chria9396 on 9/17/11


"For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ "you should not only believe in Him" but also suffer for His sake" ( Philippians 1:29).

Yes and Paul contnues in Philippians about that suffering.

This is where Dee-Dee in another blog question got it wrong. And this too is where MarkV gets it wrong.
Paul was talking to Gentiles, who were GRANTED the Gospel to Believe. As Paul was an Apostle to the Gentiles, they TOO had to suffer, just like the Christian Jews who were also suffering and being persecuted.

The Church earth, made up of both Jew and Gentile is the SUFFERING CHURCH. Those who SUFFER with Him will be Glorified together with Him.
---kathr4453 on 9/17/11


John 3:20_21 "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."

Do those 'specimens" you call 'born again' or 'saved' stop doing THE TRUTH, ie, good deeds? The Word said:
"Learn to do well, seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow."
To whom is that said? Yes, even to you who were 'chosen from eternity'. If you now KNOW TO DO good, what
do ye then?
---Nana on 9/17/11


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Chria, I agree that John3:16 shows God loves everyone. Nothing in Rom8:35-39, Rom5:8, Gal4:37, or Matt7:23 says otherwise. I can tell person A that I love them, but it does not mean I dont love person B. When a friend turns out to be evil, I might say "I never knew you", but I still love them, and am commanded to love them. I dont think God would command us to love everyone if He did not likewise love all, or that Jesus would say if you did it not for the least of them you did it not for Me if God does not love everyone. Matt5:48: Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
---Rocky on 9/17/11


"Our works are to believe on Jesus" (John6:29).Haz27 on 9/15/11
James 2:19 tells us that the demons believe. Is That enough?
"One does not know when they will die. They could die suddenly without enough time to repent. ...GOD knows if you're taking advantage of Him and playing games with Him". ---Gordon on 9/10/11
Good comment Gordon . I hoped someone would make this point
---dowanor on 9/17/11


Mark_V
Thanks for your point. I don't always explain things well enough.
The WORKS God asks of ALL (regardless of whether they are already Christian or not) is to believe on Jesus.

Remember this is the sin the world will be convicted of (John 16:9)

Heb 3:3:6-14
"Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.....
Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God....
we have become partakers of Christ IF we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,"
---Haz27 on 9/17/11


Haz27, I don't deny quotes from the Scriptures, but I have a problem with your commentary of them. MarkV correctly pointed out when you said, "A Christian's WORKS are to believe on Jesus" using John 6:29 as a justification of your claim is not what Christ meant. This is what Christ declared:

"Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."

What it simply mean is this: when a Christian believe in Christ - it is because he's already born of the Spirit, which is the sole work of God only, ie. the Holy Spirit who's working in the man, and not the other way round (which is rooted in the "free-will" - which does not exist at all).
---christan on 9/17/11


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So essentially what Christan is saying is that she believes that those born of the Spirit of Christ are capable of loving everyone who seeks mercy but God does not. Yeah makes perfect sense. NOT!

And Christan, there are far more verses than John 3:16.... and you know it!

Pull your nose down out of the clouds. Hate to break it to ya but God doesnt love you any more than He does anyone else. Theres no room for snobs in Gods kingdom. The pharisees had to find out the hard way. Will you?
---CraigA on 9/17/11


\\. Jesus was speaking to a Pharisee called Nicodemus, who like all Jews then and now, thinks that God was only going to save the Jews and no one else.\\

And you seem to be saying that God is only going to save Christians--and not all of them, at that.

What's the difference?

(BTW--Jews did NOT and still do not look at being saved the same way Christians do, but that's a subject for another blog.)

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/18/11


Chria9396, just like you, I believe and know that God is indeed love. But I also believe that His love is particular, ie only to those whom He has chosen/elect. Many, like you simply use John 3:16 to claim that His love is for everyone. As with every verse we quote, we MUST first read in context of John 3, starting from verse one. Jesus was speaking to a Pharisee called Nicodemus, who like all Jews then and now, thinks that God was only going to save the Jews and no one else. How wrong he was when Jesus declared in verse 16.

And if God truly loves everyone, then no one should be going to hell. That's how almighty His love is. And Paul elaborated this in Romans 8:35-39.
---christan on 9/16/11


Haz, I believe that your interpretation of "believe" or "faith" is wrong when you said,
"A Christian's WORKS are to believe on Jesus John 6:29."
The passage is not speaking of works of a Christian, He was speaking to those people who followed Him around who did not have faith. They needed to believe. And that comes from God,
"For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ "you should not only believe in Him" but also suffer for His sake" ( Philippians 1:29).
---Mark_V. on 9/17/11


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Chria, you always ask questions and give reasons why you disagree, that's great. I believe so far Christan's answers are always correct. I have not found one to be wrong. I know when he writes something he does not have the space to explain everything he writes because of space. So it does make it difficult to understand why he says what he does with Scripture, since many things cannot be explain by giving only Scripture without a full explanation. You gave John 3:16 which is true, God loved the world He created, but He doesn't love every individual the same. In fact you put the a good passage after, Romans 5:8. If you notice it says "His love toward us" the "Us" here is the believers. Those He saves (Gal. 4:3-7).
---Mark_V. on 9/16/11


christan:
Regarding Matt 7, "by their fruits you shall know them".

Christ is our firstfruits (1Cor 15:20) this is how we shall know them.
We believe on Jesus, our old man is crucified and I no longer live but Christ lives in me.

Those rejected in Matt 7:22 claim to follow God but Jesus said verse 23 "depart from me , ye that WORK INIQUITY".

A Christian's WORKS are to believe on Jesus John 6:29.
BUT, those claiming to be Christian but are rejected are like the Galatians. Having begun in the Spirit and tying to be made perfect by the flesh Gal 3:3.
See Gal 3:5 "doeth he it by WORKS of the LAW OR by the hearing of FAITH?"

My post to Nana 9/12/11 explains it further.
---Haz27 on 9/16/11


Christan, "The declaration of "I never knew you" would simply mean "I never loved you". " I have a bit of a problem with that. God IS love, and we know John 3:16, For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." and Rom 5:8
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." While we were enemies...never knew, as in the intimacy only a true believer can have with Him,and in that sense, also a 'type' of love reserved for His own.
---Chria9396 on 9/16/11


"Those in Matt 7:21 who are refused entry to heaven in spite of saying "Lord, Lord" are those who turn back to works of the law. They are lukewarm, mixing law and grace." - Haz27

May I ask, where in Scripture did you get this very explanation from?

Jesus followed-up in verse 23 declaring, "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." The declaration of "I never knew you" would simply mean "I never loved you".

And this is confirmed by Paul Ephesians 1:4, "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love".
---christan on 9/16/11


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Nana:
Our works are to believe on Jesus (John6:29).

It's the sin of unbelief in Jesus that the world is convicted of John16:9

Rom11:20 we see the Israelites were broken off because of unbelief.

Heb3:12 "Take heed..lest there be in any of you an EVIL HEART of UNBELIEF, in departing from the living God"

Heb10:23 "If we hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering.."

Believe on God's promise. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever should believe on him should not perish but have everlasting life John3:16
---Haz27 on 9/15/11


Nana...when the heathens say, "Lord when saw we thee"...His response will simply be "And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these My brethren, ye have done [it] unto Me." (Matthew 25:40)

His brethren are the Jews. He is a Jew by birth.
---Rickey on 9/15/11


Nana, while your right, your application is wrong:
"You are stumbling at the word 'believe'. It is accepting, trusting and doing (living) the WORD."

I believe your application at the words "living" the Word is wrong. It's not speaking of our own righteous deeds, but done because of the Spirit who lives in us, for everything good comes from above. Without the Spirit our works are sinful, anything without faith is sin. Your second passage reveals that Truth,
"It is the spirit that quickeneth, the flesh profiteth nothing"
The flesh gets no glory, the Spirit does. So when someone who is saved does good works it is because of Christ who lives in him, the reason He gets the glory.
---Mark_V. on 9/15/11


nana...i know exactly what it means when it says to "believe" and i'm sure Haz27 knows this also.
We put or trust and faith alone in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
---JIM on 9/15/11


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---Mark_V. on 9/13/11, great answer, I especially like "The reason faith in Jesus Christ the eternal Son of God is so important and different then just following the laws is that faith in Christ brings glory to God" So true. Bless you.
---Chris9396 on 9/15/11


MarkV, Well said. Good Works are to be done, but, so that YAHUSHUA (JESUSCHRIST) is recognized and believed. So many Bible leaders are on man-made pedestals that will only collapse underneath them from their heavy weight of spiritual pride.
---Gordon on 9/15/11


Jim,
You are stumbling at the word 'believe'. It is accepting, trusting and doing (living) the WORD.
It was in John 6 that Jesus said: "It is the spirit that quickeneth, the flesh profiteth nothing:
the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."
Words of life, a living way,
John 7:17: "If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God,
or whether I speak of myself."


>>>>Romans 2:6_11<<<<

Rickey, not us? Both sheep and goats will say "Lord, when saw we thee". Think you the heathen
will call him Lord?
---Nana on 9/14/11


Nana the sheeps and goats that Jesus was talking about were not us, christians. He was referring to the judgment of the nations.
The "sheep" are the righteous who helped the Jews during the tribulation. The "goats" are those who won't help the Jews. They will be judged for that at the "Valley of Jehosephat". (Joel 3:1-2, Matthew 25:31-46)
---Rickey on 9/13/11


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The reason faith in Jesus Christ the eternal Son of God is so important and different then just following the laws is that faith in Christ brings glory to God. All the good works we do mean nothing if Christ does not get glory and honor. Anything without faith is sin. You do a good deed without Christ, who gets the glory? You do. All good things come from above, we cannot take credit for any of it. But those without Christ do. They will not give a cup of water to a disciple in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. They will give it, but not in His name.
---Mark_V. on 9/13/11


Nana:
Gal 3:1-3 "O foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you....having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

James3:10,11 "out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing (Grace) and cursing (Law)...These things ought not be so. Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water (Grace) and bitter (Law)?"

Rev3:15,16 "I know thy WORKS, that thou art neither cold nor hot:....because thou art lukewarm....I will spew thee out..."

Our WORKS are to BELIEVE on Jesus John6:29.

But lukewarm are similar those spoken of in Rom10:3 "seeking to establish their own righteousness". The Galatians begun in the Spirit and also sought to be "made perfect by the flesh"
---Haz27 on 9/12/11


nana said:"You and Haz27 have been the ones saying that the will of God is just 'believe'.
Sorry?

Sorry nana, but i don,t believe i said it. Jesus Christ said it in John 6:40.
I was only pointing it out to you. If you have something against that you should take it up with the Lord.
---JIM on 9/12/11


"Those in Matt 7:21 who are refused entry to heaven in spite of saying "Lord, Lord" are those who turn back to works of the law. They are lukewarm, mixing law and grace.
As you said "only those who are of faith are sons""
---Haz27 on 9/10/11

Can you provide an example of that you say "lukewarm" and "mixing law and grace"?


"Not to abuse Gods awesome Grace, but to live a Godly life and follow Jesus."
---JIM on 9/10/11
When have I said any different than that? That has been my stance all along. You and Haz27 have been the ones saying that the will of God is just 'believe'.
Sorry?
I am not the one changing my tune...
---Nana on 9/12/11


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If God the father picked you prior to creation yes, if he did not no that is the only determination factor about any ones salvation, nothing else counts.
---Blogger9211 on 9/12/11


Rhonda said:
"one cannot be righteous unless they obey! ..... deliberately BREAKING commandments they are not part of Christ"

BUT, consider what God says:
******

ABSOLUTELY HAVE considered OBEYING my LORD knowing those who DO NOT love Christ REJECT his laws John 14:24

Exodus 20:6
And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. ...John 14:15, 21, 23

Jude 1:21
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

impossible to keep oneself in the LOVE of God when they REJECT HIS commandments ...counterfeit christianity teaches the big lie they have a license to sin IN CHRIST
---Rhonda on 9/11/11


nana...I am so sorry that you do not fully understand what Christ has done for you.
How hard it must be to live your life each day without the assurance of knowing that your debt was paid if full...I couldn't live that way. So i will live as Paul says in Galations. In the freedom that Christ has provided. Not to abuse Gods awesome Grace, but to live a Godly life and follow Jesus.
---JIM on 9/10/11


Rhonda said:
"one cannot be righteous unless they obey! ..... deliberately BREAKING commandments they are not part of Christ"

BUT, consider what God says:

Rom4:4.5 "Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,"

Rom 10:10 "For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

And what did Paul think of his former righteousness in keeping the law?
Phil 3:8 "DUNG"

Jesus said to the man who kept the law but yet lacked something (Matt19:21), to be PERFECT, FOLLOW HIM.
---Haz27 on 9/10/11


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Nana:
1Cor6:11 describes how some BEFORE salvation were chargeable with those examples of sin, as they formerly were under law.

BUT note verse 11 and their new state. Washed/Sanctified/Justified.
"Blessed is the man whom the Lord will not impute sin"
Rom4:8

And 1Cor6:18 "flee fornication", God's word is spiritual. It's spiritually discerned. It's about spiritual fornication i.e judging by works of the law.

If you judge salvation is determined by keeping the law, even YOU would fail as to OFFEND in ONE point you're GUILTY of ALL James2:10.

Regarding Rom12:2 be not conformed to this world, but be transformed..." This is the old man crucified. I no longer live but Christ lives in me.
---Haz27 on 9/10/11


The law is not made for the righteous, but for sinners. 1Tim1:9
****

except one cannot be righteous unless they obey! ...choosing to be a sinner IN Christ disobeying daily deliberately BREAKING commandments they are not part of Christ

Christ said he will tell those who do wicked things in HIS NAME to depart from HIM that HE NEVER KNEW THEM

seems many believe they can be a HOLLOW "christian" live like the sinner USING 1Tim 1:9 in vain as their excuse to BREAK Gods Holy Laws then be "saved" on their deathbed after knowingly living as a sinner ...many will never KNOW the "day or hour" of their death to have that last minute hollow repentance plea
---Rhonda on 9/10/11


"Such WERE some of you: but ye are washed..sanctified..justified"
Haz27 on 9/9/11

Here is liberty: "Such were SOME OF YOU: "
Paul here recognizes that not all were such that lived in iniquity.
and neither have to now.

Isaiah prophesied the Christ and also the means by which men are cleansed: Isaiah 1:16_20.
Do you believe in God or just in yourself?

Finally, if YOU are washed, why is Paul thereafter telling you to flee fornication?
Why he tells YOU, "brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service."
(Rom. 12)???
---Nana on 9/10/11


One does not know when they will die. They could die suddenly without enough time to repent. Then they'd be up the creek in Hell. GOD knows if you're taking advantage of Him and playing games with Him. He knows the secret intentions of your heart. If a person can think they can "be saved", and live like the Devil most of their Christian life, then "repent on their Death Beds", then, think again. You can fool others and your own self, but, you cannot fool GOD. He sees right through us. And, He will not tolerate game-playing. Too much is at stake for the soul! It's not just about getting through the Pearly Gates. It's about getting rid of the sin out of your life and walking in daily Holiness, Truth and Love before GOD and man.
---Gordon on 9/10/11


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First He called them "Brood of vipers" who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?".//

Yhis is so great, even the snakes and vipers can be warned and FLEE the wrath to come.Did John turn them away? Will Jesus turn YOU away?

This is why is is so vitally important to witness to the lost, the snakes and vipers of the world, and warn them of the wrath to come.

Legalism is so judgemental in deciding who is and isn't worthy to hear the Gospel.

Legalism takes on more forms than one realizes. Those who have prejudged anyone unworthy of salvation are snakes and vipers. Just like the Pharisees who prejudged the woman taken in adultry.
---kathr4453 on 9/10/11


Mark_V, good scriptures you gave us.

And Jim showed us God's will in John 6:40
"This is the WILL of Him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Those in Matt 7:21 who are refused entry to heaven in spite of saying "Lord, Lord" are those who turn back to works of the law. They are lukewarm, mixing law and grace.
As you said "only those who are of faith are sons"
---Haz27 on 9/10/11


Nana:
Read 1Cor 5:9 to 11.
It speaks of the "unrighteous", which is WITHOUT Christ.

Verse 11 "Such WERE some of you: but ye are washed..sanctified..justified

WASHED us from our sins
Rev 1:5
SANCTIFIED through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ Heb 10:10
JUSTIFIED by his grace. Tit3:7

In the flesh we still stumble and do wrong, but we are righteous in Christ. Our old man is dead (by faith) and we are a new creation.
There is NO condemnation to those in Christ Rom 8:1

Whereas you judge by works of law. And, as James 2:10 shows, even YOU would be guilty of breaking ALL the 10 commandments, including Sabbath.

The law is not made for the righteous, but for sinners. 1Tim1:9
---Haz27 on 9/9/11


Haz, I agree with your answers very much. Matt. 7:20 really begins in Matt. 3:8-10, which John said to the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to His baptisms. First He called them "Brood of vipers" who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?".
This Pharisees and Sudducees believed that race, made them spiritually secure. But Abraham's real descendants are those who share His faith (Rom. 4:16) not his works. And only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham' (Gal. 3:7,29) The Pharisees were known as "separated ones" who were known for their rigid adherence to the ceremonial fine points of the law. But inside they were full of venom. All their works meant nothing. They were lacking real Faith.
---Mark_V. on 9/9/11


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When he comes, then will some say Lord, Lord. Matthew 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

1 Corinthians 6:9_10.
"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, ... shall inherit the kingdom of God."
Of course God makes an exception with Haz27 and JIM?

Jim,
Matthew 25:32_33 "And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:..."
Only 2 set of people, divided according to what they had done. Sorry, but the option of you 2 is not covered in the plan!
---Nana on 9/9/11


nana:
"I don't know you" based on what? Your fruit of course as he stated to us, Matthew 7:20 "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."

nana...we will be known by our fruits not to Christ, but to the world.
The will of the Father is in John 6:40: Everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life.
---JIM on 9/9/11


Nana:
Matt 7:20 "By their fruits you shall know them".

Consider that Christians will be at different stages of their growth which will determine what we might see. I know some will judge "fruits" wrongly this way.

Importantly though it's the "Firstfruit" that we should look for.

1Cor 15:20 "CHRIST is risen from the dead, and become the FIRSTFRUIT of them that slept"
And Rom 11:16:
"If the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy..."

By their fruit (Christ in us) you shall know them.

As for "virtuous lifestyle" getting you to heaven, the criminal on cross next to Jesus failed on this YET he went to paradise.
---Haz27 on 9/9/11


"BUT our salvation is determined by knowing Christ (not how good a lifestyle we live)."
---Haz27 on 9/8/11

Strongly disagree with that. Rather it seems that Salvation is determined by Christ knowing us. He may say, "I don't know you" based on what? Your fruit of course as he stated to us, Matthew 7:20 "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."
Christ said, "he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.", he "shall enter into the kingdom of heaven" (Matt. 7:21).

"(not how good a lifestyle we live)"
The "will of God" mentioned in Romans 12, a virtuous lifestyle as well.

Been getting much rain in La-La-Land...?
---Nana on 9/8/11


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The ten commandments were given to the Pre-Christians, not to the Christians. Christ Almighty came down to earth in person, and he gave us his New Commandments which supercede his old commandments. Please Read- Matthew 5:20-48+ John 13:34,35+ 14:15+ 15:12-14,17.
---Eloy on 9/8/11


Spurgeon was quoted saying:
"Don't think that one prayer on your deathbed will save you. Deathbed prayer is a deathbed farce generally, and passes for nothing,..."
C. H. Spurgeon

But Luke 23:42,43 we see a deathbed talk with Jesus where the criminal on the cross next to Jesus said:

"Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.
And Jesus said to him, Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise."

When we do wrong we won't profit from it, as King David found when he committed adultery and murder.
BUT our salvation is determined by knowing Christ (not how good a lifestyle we live).
---Haz27 on 9/8/11


In Matthew 15:21-28, Jesus wouldn't talk to or heal the woman because she was a Gentile. He was sent to preach to the Jew, lost house of Israel. In Romans 11:19-23 & 32, it shows that they, the Jews, rejected Christ & that made a way for non-Jews, us, to enter in.

On your deathbed He will forgive you because He has obligated Himself to do so.
He has bound Himself to His word. (1John 1:9, Micah 7:19, Isaiah 55:11, Jeremiah 1:12)

Also James 5:14-16 shows deathbed folks can be forgiven.
---Rickey on 9/8/11


Part 1:
Matthew 7:22_26, what's important is, to not live in iniquity by living the words of life given by Jesus.

Part 2:
"break the ten commandments daily"
A life of iniquity is a sure guarantee of getting, "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
1 Corinthians 6:9_10.

Finally: "on your death bed ask for forgiveness, will Jesus forgive?"

"Don't think that one prayer on your deathbed will save you. Deathbed prayer is a deathbed farce generally, and passes for nothing, it is a coin that will not ring in heaven, but is stamped by hypocrisy, and made of base metal." ,
C. H. Spurgeon
---Nana on 9/8/11


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The 10-commandments have never applied to us. The 10-commandments were for the Jews, God's chosen people, under the Old Covenant.

On another note, the 10-commandments were given to show folks that they needed a Savior & couldn't make themselves righteous.
Romans 8:3 says, "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:"

The law couldn't make a person righteous. According to 2nd Corinthians 5:21, we are righteous through Christ.
Jesus gave 2-instructions, love God & love others.(Mark 12:30-31)
---Rickey on 9/8/11


Part 1: "If you claim to be a Christian" - "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matthew 6:22,23, what's important is, are we in God's covenant of grace, which He has chosen before the foundations of the world.

Part 2: "break the ten commandments daily" - "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin." Romans 3:20, fulfilling the ten commandments is not going to save you.
---christan on 9/8/11


Finally: "on your death bed ask for forgiveness, will Jesus forgive?" - "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." John 6:37, "I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me, and they have kept thy word." John17:6,

"For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth" Romans9:11, "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world..." Ephesians1:4

... the Covenant of Grace.
---christan on 9/8/11


//If you claim to be a Christian,//
Big difference in being christian and claiming to be a christian.
---michael_e on 9/8/11


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Well . . . if we are talking about a Christian who has been growing in Jesus, the person does better and better at living in God's love, instead of sinning > 1 John 4:17, Hebrews 12:4-11. So, all along, this person would care about being forgiven and getting God's correction to do better.

But if someone keeps sinning, on purpose and does not seek forgiveness and correction, this person's character may not have the person able to honestly ask forgiveness, at the end. So, I would not put off a thing like this, but turn to God now and get correction and curing in God's love.
---Bill_willa6989 on 9/7/11


If you claim to be a Christian, and break the ten commandments daily, and on your death bed ask for forgiveness, will Jesus forgive?

YES Isaiah 63:7 I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the LORD, [and] the praises of the LORD, according to all that the LORD hath bestowed on us, and the great goodness toward the house of Israel, which he hath bestowed on them according to his mercies, and according to the multitude of his lovingkindnesses.
---Francis on 9/7/11


Of course.

However, forgiveness does not change a wasted past into a record of achievement.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/7/11


Lou_Lou:
How many times are we to forgive one another?
7x70.
God likewise forgives 7x70.

Regarding the 10 commandments read
Rom7:14. The law is SPIRITUAL.

And Rom8:3 "what the law could NOT do in that it was WEAK through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh".

Rom8:10 If Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
---Haz27 on 9/7/11


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\\...on your death bed ask for forgiveness, will Jesus forgive?\\

That depends on what you mean by forgive. There are two kinds of forgiveness in scripture - judicial (eternal) and relational (temporal).

Forgiven, as in not going to hell, the answer is NO !!!

There is no judicial forgiveness by saying a prayer, confessing anything, "turning" from sin or anything else besides FAITH in Jesus Christ as the One who took our sins upon Himself and paid the penalty in our place.


Forgiven, as in
'favor' with God? YES !!!

For relational forgiveness, AFTER you have faith in Christ, 1John 1:9 says if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
---James_L on 9/6/11


GOD knows -- without a doubt -- that we just CAN'T save ourselves. Even if we "Think We Can" and "Try Extra Hard". Ephesians 2:8-9.

Many people in the world would just laugh at that statement, but it is 100% TRUE. That is why GOD sent his own son Jesus Christ to save us. John 3:16.

All that a person needs to do -- while living or on their death bed -- is to personally ASK Jesus Christ into their life. Repent of SIN and be saved.

Jesus Christ will relay your request for forgiveness to GOD, who will forgive you.

GOD doesn't want ANYONE to go to Hell. 2 Peter 3:9. HE wants everyone to come to repentance, be forgiven, and join HIM in Heaven.
---Sag on 9/6/11


lets take one law
bless your enemy, bless and do not curse
how many amongst us posting on Cnet are not guilty of cursing instead of blessing? so to me , we need to work on our salvation, knowing that Christ has accomplished. for the rest of your question only God knows the answer who's saved and who's not
---andy3996 on 9/6/11


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