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Personal Jesus Relationship

Is there such a thing as a "personal" relationship with God/Jesus? If so, what is the scripture support? What is it? What is it not? What happens in this relationship? How would one know if they have one?

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 ---Rod4Him on 9/6/11
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Leviticus 18:11

"'You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's wife's daughter, conceived/BEGOTTEN by your father, since she is your sister.

OK More excellent way, I was not aware we were discussing incest here. I don't get your point.
---kathr4453 on 9/14/11


Revelation 1:5
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,


How do you explain this MarkV.
---kathr4453 on 9/14/11


In scripture, basically, God is telling us HOW to be civilized (HOLY civilized, wholly as a whole and complete person).

Legalists are presented with a major problem of character because their legalist belief is contrary to genuinely civilized behavior/thought (a complete absence of peace and "harmony"). Legalism is very judicial, desiring to judge your fellow man and cause a penalty of wrath or shame/scorn,...therefore the conscience of the legalist is in chaos and it prevents clear thinking (poetic justice)...."live in such harmony with one another" (Romans 15:5).

Leviticus 18:11 "begotten by your father, since she is your sister".

You are not making sense, kathr.
---more_excellent_way on 9/14/11


Kathr, today on this day, you are still a heretic. Nothing has changed. Let me know when the Father reveals the Truth to you. Then I will know you have believed. I see you have company with you. The blind leading the blind. And know this, the more you say, the more of your heretical views come out. Let me give you some information, Jesus Christ was the begotten Son of God in the New Testament, and begotten in the Old Testament, and foreknown as a sacrifice for sin from the foundation of the world. I guess he became begotten when you say so, because you know what begotten means. Please don't give heretical lessons. We have enough of those around the site.
---Mark_V. on 9/14/11


---but God simply CREATES/begets.

All verses are from the RSV (as always).
---more_excellent_way on 9/13/11

Angels were CREATED not begotten, yet they too were called sons. But not begotten sons. God didn't PRO-create to bring them into existance.

Adam was created but Not Begotten. Adam was a son of God, but not a Begotten son of God. God did not PRO-create with the dust.

Create and begotten are not the same.

Create and PRO-Create are not the same either. Angels cannot procreate or create.

Procreation means this:

Birds do it, bees do it, even educated fleas do it...they procreate. They don't create.

There is only ONE Begotten Son, and He was only begotten ONCE!
---kathr4453 on 9/13/11




CraigA, I am so glas someone also saw the double talk in Marlv's statement.

If the body without the spirit is dead, then Markv seems to be saying Jesus was already dead while on the Cross, making any atonement for sin impossible. Plus he's saying everything Jesus did was in the flesh. SELF EFFORT.


If he only knew HOW to think through this false doctrine of his. All he knows how to do is repeat repeat repeat like a trained parrot.
---kathr4453 on 9/13/11


We can't be sure which words were distorted/altered in meaning by the scribes (even if reading the Greek). Each scribe wrote down the Greek words according to their own learning of the language, and modern translators also used their own words. Translators did not cross-reference these two verses and use exact words...Acts 13:33 "written in the second psalm...today I have begotten thee".

Psalm 2:7 "He said to me, "You are my son, today I have begotten you".

Greek translation is never exact (begotten "thee" and begotten "you"). Humans need to PROcreate in order to "beget", but God simply CREATES/begets.

All verses are from the RSV (as always).
---more_excellent_way on 9/13/11


--Kathr, you can post twenty post it will not change who you are and what you believe. God cannot die. And Jesus died on the Cross. The Jesus Christ you present is not of the Christian faith. ---MarkV

I think that wraps up why Mark is so deceived. He just denied that Jesus is God in the flesh.
---CraigA on 9/13/11


More excellent way, Question, are you saying the WORD was Created in the beginning. So the Word was a SHE too? So was SHE a created daughter and not a son?
---kathr4453 on 9/13/11


MarkV, oh how funny.

Let's Do go back and see what you said,

Kathr 2: what you have done is localized the Holy Spirit to one place, in the heart of believers, but the Holy Spirit is God and He is everywhere at all times, He is Omnipresent. He cannot be localized. But under the New ministry the Holy Spirit, He is said to be in the believer empowering them to do their ministry for the Lord. He is not really inside since He is Spirit. Jesus Christ is also said to be in the believer, but He is in a relationship, for He is at the right hand of the Father. -Mark_V. on 6/1/11
---kathr4453 on 9/13/11




Ya know Markv, if God only needed another HUMAN made sinless to die for our sin, He just would have created another Adam out of the Dust and placed him on a cross.You think all He needed was a body. WELL, if that were so, HE wouldn't have to come Himself. Jeuss did say, If there be any other way, and Gusess what, there was no other way.

And also remember markv, unless you too believe as SDA's, no one dies. Even our souls are immortal and never die. God has a soul too. God RAISED His soul from the Grave, not just His flesh.
---kathr4453 on 9/13/11


VERY OFTEN, statements are made on this forum and NO SCRIPTURAL REFERENCE is provided....(SATAN'S TACTIC).

Proverbs 8:22...read through vere 27...
"The LORD created me at the beginning of his work, the first of his acts of old. Ages ago I was set up, at the first, before the beginning of the earth".

verse 27 "When he established the heavens".


I can't even find the words you used in the NKJV (satan's version of scripture).

What are you using for devotion, the Reader's Guide commentary?...BOOKS, no wonder "Christianity" has embraced lies galore.
---mo9re_excellent_way on 9/13/11


Kathr, you can post twenty post it will not change who you are and what you believe. God cannot die. And Jesus died on the Cross. The Jesus Christ you present is not of the Christian faith. You can twist and turn and say all kinds of religious things as if you knew what you were talking about but when you are done, you will still be a heretic, for you present the same jesus Mormons, Jehovah witnesses, Unitarians, Islam present only a little different. A created son who died on the cross. Your are an opposer to the faith.
Until God gives you faith to believe in the eternal Son of God, you will continue your arguements. I cannot make you a believer, I can tell you what you are teaching is wrong.
---Mark_V. on 9/13/11


MarkV Lesson 2 Begotten vs Created.

When God created Adam, it clearly says, God CREATED Adam.

HOWEVER BEGOTTEN means PROCREATION. Just LOOK IT UP!

Genesis 5:4
And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

And we read the many hundreds of who begot who and so on, giving Generations of sons.

Jesus WAS NOT procreated or generated before the foundation of the world EITHER, nor was He created.

To be Begotten means one has to do the begetting, and there is always a female to give birth to the Begotten. Jesus was BEGOTTEN when God overshaddowed Mary.

This is what I will stand upon until the Day I see the Lord face to face.
---kathr4453 on 9/13/11


Kathr 2, two years ago or around there you made an error concerning Jesus Christ. I corrected you. You got angry at me and responded in the flesh, with pride. I told you, you could not say that. Instead of correcting your error, you did the opposite, you started with a vital error, no faith in the eternal Sonship of Christ, and from there you have build a mountain of errors, to denying the indwelling of the Spirit in the Old T., what a Covenant means, an man coming to Christ with no faith.
all because you did not like to be corrected. It is rare thing for any who have etertained the spirit of error to vomit up the sweet morsel which they have eaten in secret. Many do not willingly embrace error, but you did, you let the flesh take over.
---Mark_V. on 9/13/11


MarkV, here is a lesson in Created vs Begotten. God created the Angels, God CREATED Adam. Those are God's created sons.

Therefore Jesus not being CREATED, BUT BEGOTTEN since he was not created out of the dust of the earth, nor is He an Angel, but God's ONLY BEGOTTEN Son, MEANING HE WAS NOT CREATED. DAAAAAAH! Hello, anyone home? Knock-Knock?

So before you accuse me of saying Jesus was created, YOU are totally DAFT in definitions and the english language.
---kathr4453 on 9/13/11


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Did God die when Jesus died on the cross? The answer depends on how we understand the meaning of the word "die." To die does not mean an end of existence. Death is separation. Death is when the soul-spirit separates from the physical body. So, in that sense, yes, God died, because Jesus was God in human form, and Jesus' soul-spirit separated from His body. However, if by die we mean a cessation of existence, then no, God did not die. For God to die would mean that He ceased to exist, and neither the Father, nor the Son, nor the Holy Spirit will ever cease to exist. The essence of Jesus, the second Person of the Trinity, left the body He temporarily inhabited on Earth, but His essence did not die, nor could it.
---kathr4453 on 9/13/11


Kathr, I also get a magrine hearing you. You know why? because Calvin is in your mind all the time and I have never said "Calvin said this or that" I give you Scripture, you continue to reject it. markv//

MarkV, Calvin believed he was regenerated/born again at his infant WATER Baptism. He MURDERED the anabaptists who re-baptized again those who ACTUALLY did come into a Personal relationship with Jesus Christ through PERSONAL faith in Jesus Death and resurrection. The anabaptists EXPOSED His lie and proved Calvin NEVER really received true Salvation by FAITH.

YOU BET I believe calvinism is heresy.

WAKE UP! Your whole soul depends on either your faith in SCRIPTURE alone or Calvin's butchering of scripture.
---kathr4453 on 9/13/11


I do however believe their understanding of creation is Biblical whereas yours is not. Your authority on these matters is not God but the changing opinions of fallible sinful man.

I am not at all sure exactly what they believe concerning creation. I simply believe God by His word brought the creation into existence.

And I recognize that when it comes to the details of the creation, there are different viewpoints, some having more defense than others.

Do you like some Adventists believe God exulted Jesus and Satan became jealous? I read something of this in their Scripture called the Great Controversy.
---leej on 9/13/11


Kathr, let me put it to you clear so that you can understand,

"YOU ARE A HERETIC BECAUSE YOU TEACH THAT CHRIST IS A CREATED SON,"

Clear?
The Son of God is eternal. And any teaching contrary to that Truth, makes anyone a heretic of the Christian faith.
Second, I was not answering Leej and disagreeing with him, I was disagreeing to the lies you gave about what I said. Believing a person has two natures or not, does not make anyone a heretic, nor believing in a different end times. What makes someone a heretic is when that person is teaching false doctrines concerning the Deity of Christ. The most important essential of the Christian faith is believing Christ is eternal. That is why I called you a heretic.
---Mark_V. on 9/13/11


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John Calvin (1509-1564) was a heretic. Calvin taught infant baptism, and also that the Sacraments were EQUAL with the Word of God. Calvin and Luther BOTH taught baptismal regeneration.

Calvin even had people killed for disagreeing with his heresy on infant baptism. So many people today are naive of such men. Luther and John Calvin both endorsed the heretical sacraments and infant baptism. Sacraments are NOT taught in the Bible.

There is NO way that such men could have been saved because they ADDED works to faith, which is no faith at all.

And to have those who follow this heretic teaching have no right to call others NOT SAVED who disagree with Calvinism's heresy!
---kathr4453 on 9/13/11


leej, mmany thruth? Oh Please. Then MarkV tells us that the Only Begotten Son DIDN"T DIE! However John 3:16 says very clearly For God so loved theh wprld He Gave His Only Begotten Son...leej God gave Jesus as a GIFT , the Lamb of God who Died on a cross for our sin. God GAVE the Only Begotten Son to Die in a Cross for our sin. And this same Begotten Son was raised for our JUSTIFICTION.

There would be no IMPUTED Righteousness of Christ without the death and resurrection of the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON.

Beyond Migraine! Heresy does that to people when NO ONE else confronts these lies, but rather, like you, defends them!
---kathr4453 on 9/13/11


leej, I KNOW we have two natures, but have you not read all teh times MarkV had bucked and called me a heritic because I believe we have two natures.

MarkV, now let's hear you call leej a liar on this subject.

And leej, do you believe teh Only Begotten Son died and rose again? MarkV is waiting for that CORRCTION as well.

He believes he's here to CORRECT everyone else who confront his lies.
---kathr4453 on 9/13/11


Kathr, I also get a magrine hearing you. You know why? because Calvin is in your mind all the time and I have never said "Calvin said this or that" I give you Scripture, you continue to reject it.
You read what I said and you said:
"OK MarkV, So NOW you are saying you believe we have two natures,"
There is no two natures in my statement. You see two natures because you always make assumptions about what I say.
I said, one nature (fallen ) and a new creation. We are been sanctified, by the Spirit who now indwells us. That is the power I was talking about. You said,
" being so totally depraved" You are a good example of one. No matter how much Truth is given to you, you reject it.
---Mark_V. on 9/13/11


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Lee of many names, firstly there is what you believe and then there is the truth. I am not Adventist, have never attended an Adventist church, unless I was preaching there. I do agree with much they believe but not all. I do however believe their understanding of creation is Biblical whereas yours is not. Your authority on these matters is not God but the changing opinions of falible sinful man.

People in glass houses should not throw stones.
---Warwick on 9/12/11


kathr4453 //Oh I have a migraine!

Usually happens when you beat your head against the wall of truth.

1) While God foreordains or predestines one for whatever His purpose, that person is still accountable.

2) Salvation is strictly a gift received by faith, not something earned nor is it something that is lost.

The errant Christians merely gets God's discipline - we should welcome it!

3) Calvinism is really based upon the works of the church's earlier theologians. There is really nothing new in Calvinism, but it is often misunderstood as with the scripture that pertain to this subject.

4) yes, you have 2 natures. Read Ro 7:23

But as you grow in the faith, you will become more like Christ.
---leej on 9/12/11


Warwick //But I am not Adventist!

Probably true but much of your doctrine is the same as held by them. Never did forget your post when you stated that the SDA church is the one church that is closest to the Bible.

I would reckon that like birds of like feather, that if you hung out with them all the time, you will become like them and without even realizing it.
---leej on 9/12/11


Mark, I am not talking about legalism.

Paul wrote that we are saved by grace, through faith, not works-Ephesians 2:8,9. He wrote this in opposition to legalists who said works had to be added to grace.

I am talking about post salvation when believers have the Lords laws in their hearts, and on their minds-Hebrews 10:16.

Now this law, isn't totally different, in content, to the moral law which was written on tablets of stone, is it? Can we now live in opposition to this law?

Is it therefore legalism to say that believers who wilfully, persistently break this law (in our hearts and on our minds) are hypocrites who will face Gods righteous judgement? Or do you think grace will protect even them?
---Warwick on 9/12/11


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Kathr, if you have the Spirit of Christ living in you, you have the power to do as Christ commands you to do. It does not change your fallen nature, you are a new creation. You still sin, because the flesh is still with you. ---Mark_V. on 9/12/11

OK MarkV, So NOW you are saying you believe we have two natures, our old sin nature that will always be with us, and the New Nature, teh New Creature created In Christ.


But MarkV You keep saying we don't have two natures. SO then Who is doing the sinning? The NEW NATURE cannot sin.

You keep fighting the truth by scrambling it around every time you talk! AND becaause you are confronted by your confusion, your pride would rather assault another who sees it as confusion.
---kathr4453 on 9/12/11


Leej, what you said is very true. The legalist do continue to preach self-righteous works to condemn others of sin. ---Mark_V. on 9/12/11


And God forbid the Calvinists also condemn others of sin, being so totally depraved. YET teh Calvinist declares he was first Born Again=Regenerated, and THEN Justified, STILL SINNING, but they got their get out of jail free card, are STILL sinners, BEG for Mercy, after it all, declaring they are LAWKEEPERS, of all things, but NEVER identify with Jesus in death and Resurrection Life, never need testing, ( because they are the Elect) ...............
Oh I have a migraine!
---kathr4453 on 9/12/11


Kathr, if you have the Spirit of Christ living in you, you have the power to do as Christ commands you to do. It does not change your fallen nature, you are a new creation. You still sin, because the flesh is still with you. That's why you argue so much, because you argue from the flesh and not the Spirit. You are not defending Christ, you are defending your errors. You just don't want to be told your wrong. You want salvation at your request. In your error you will continue in many of your heretical views of the Son of the Living God. Voluntary error is when a person gives heed to seducing spirits and wrong dillusions by believing a lie. And it will get worse not better, later everything that is Truth they will reject. Don't be one of them.
---Mark_V. on 9/12/11


Jesus in John Chapter 17 prayed a personal prayer to the Father and He said this:

Father, that they may be ONE even as we are ONE. The natural mind cannot comprehend what Jesus meant by this, but the Holy Spirit gives revelation knowledge...ask Him to show you what Jesus meant.

When the Holy Spirit comes to dwell inside you(you are a temple of the HS)...then you have God's Spirit abiding inside of you...how much intimate can you get? You know you have HIM when you get the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus said "when the comforter comes, He will teach you of things to come." And He has and He continues to do so in my life and other's lives too. God Bless you!!!!
---Donna5535 on 9/12/11


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The same holds true for all believers. The imputed righteousness of Christ on believers does not change our fallen nature, it gives us, ( a get out of jail free) in the face of God. We are still sinners. ----
---Mark_V. on 9/11/11

2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

So there is no power in imputed Righteousnes to FREE you from the power of sin, so is that the excuse you keep giving as to WHY YOU still sin and make excuses for it?
Colossians 2:11
In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
---kathr4453 on 9/12/11


Isaiah 53


---the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.


10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him, he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, ----

11He shall see of the travail of his soul,
and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many, for he shall bear their iniquities.

12Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong, because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors, and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

This is what MarkV DOES NOT BELIEVE!
---kathr4453 on 9/12/11


Lee of many names, what I propose threatens you to the extent you resort to what you consider to be an ad hominem attack (directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining) by calling me (shock horror) an Adventist! Because of your intent this is a version of the crass 'poisoning the well' argument. But I am not Adventist!

Reality slowly but finally has dawned and you agree with me, writing "Yes scripture does state that one cannot persist in a life of sin and claim to be a Christian." Praise God for small mercies. And we only know what sin is because of God's moral law! And the Sabbath (not a work but a blessing) is part of this law but I am sure you irrationally reject this.
---Warwick on 9/12/11


Leej, what you said is very true. The legalist do continue to preach self-righteous works to condemn others of sin. And what they do forget is that all the good we do is because the Spirit of Christ is in us. So the legalist answer with,
"Oh, so you can sin all you want now that you are saved?"
Which is completely false of genuine believers. Where sin abounds grace abounded much more. They put the letter of the law ahead of the Spirit of the law. So they never leave their roots the Covenant of works. They talk as if the Spirit was not indwelling them.
---Mark_V. on 9/12/11


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Thanks MarkV. I most definitely agree that Jesus Christ is sinless. He is the perfect, unblemished, Lamb of God. Worthy is the Lamb! He is Holy, the Almighty, King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Who is like Him?
Some questions are to clarify what the poster believes. Understand about imputation vs becoming, I've heard various thoughts on this, some considering mark 15:34, Matt 27:46, "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" Hope to cont soon...
---chris9396 on 9/11/11


//...., but we must not be judicial nor should we set our hearts against our fellow man.

Totally agree but the legalists tell us we must reform the natural man - the nature we were born with.

My prayer is I may fully abide in Christ, walk in His Spirit, that the only righteousness others may see is of the Lord.

As to good works, the legalists ignore Eph. 2:10 that good works are really the work of God within us. The Lord should be given the credit for whatever goodness there is in our lives.

Unfortunately there are groups claiming the name of Christ that believe they have the right to judge others and bring others into conformity to their denominational beliefs - such as the 'we are the remnant of God' faction.
---leej on 9/11/11


Sister Chria, very good question. What you need to remember first is, that Jesus Christ was sinless, in His human nature and His divine nature. Because His natures cannot be made sin. So we know something is not interpreted correctly. Scripture does not contradict.
In 2 Cor 5:21 Paul summarized the heart of the gospel, resolving the mystery and paradox of (v.18,19), and explaining how sinners can be reconciled to God through Jesus Christ imputed righteousness. This 15 Greek words express the doctrine of imputation and substitution like no other single verse. "Who knew no sin" Jesus Christ, the sinless Son of God (Gal. 4:4: Luke 23:4,14, 22,47: John 8:46: Heb. 4:15: 7:26: 1 Peter 1:19 etc.)
---Mark_V. on 9/11/11


Chria 2: "to be sin for us" God the Father using the principle of imputation (v.19) treated Christ as if He were a sinner though He was not, and had Him die as a substitute to pay the penalty for the sins of those who believe Christ (Is. 53:4-6: Gal. 3:10-13: 1 Peter 2:24). On the Cross He did not become a sinner as some suggest, but remained as Holy as ever.
The same holds true for all believers. The imputed righteousness of Christ on believers does not change our fallen nature, it gives us, ( a get out of jail free) in the face of God. We are still sinners. In Christ case, He was imputed sin for our sins, but He never became sin, His natures didn't change. Imputing sin does not change who He was is and always will be.
---Mark_V. on 9/11/11


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Warwick //Francis and other Adventists have been very forthright in saying thay are saved by grace alone. And further that we cannot be saved by adherence to law.

Like most cults the definition of terms is a problem. Yes, while they say one is saved by grace, their Investigative Judgment doctrine says that one will be judged not on the merits of Christ, but on the merits of ones works. And by observing the 10 commandments, one can acquire the necessary level of holiness to qualify for life eternal.

Yes scripture does state that one cannot persist in a life of sin and claim to be a Christian. 1 John 3:4,9 Perhaps you make an effort to examine yourself?
---leej on 9/11/11


Psalms 139: 23-24 Search me, O God, and know my heart! Try me and know my thoughts!
And see if there be any grievous way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting!

Warwick - I rest on the merits of what our Lord & Savior Jesus Christ has done on my behalf. It is by His blood that I have the full forgiveness of sins.

Ro 5:9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.

I make no apologies for rejecting the legalism of yours and your Adventists bedfellows.
---leej on 9/11/11


MarkV, I know this was not addressed to me, but you wrote: "But you are wrong that Jesus was made sin. He was sinless. And died and rose again sinless." Just wondering how you explain "2 Cor
5:21 "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him"
---chris9396 on 9/11/11


Your relationship with God is personal, but never private.
Luke 11:33 No man, when he hath lighted a candle, putteth [it] in a secret place, neither under a bushel, but on a candlestick, that they which come in may see the light.
---micha9344 on 9/10/11


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Lee of many names, you are being deceitful, but what is new?

Francis and other Adventists have been very forthright in saying thay are saved by grace alone. And further that we cannot be saved by adherence to law.

What they have said is that it is not possible for a person who claims to be saved to live a life of persistent, intentional, rejection of Gods moral law. But you disagree with what they have written so I take it you believe we can live a life of sin (rejection of God's law)after salvation, with impunity. You are wrong.

In reality your continued misrepresentation of what they have written is sin, the sin of false witness. And God will judge you.
---Warwick on 9/10/11


Kathr, yes, one sacrifice. Should have known you were there. I'm sure you understood it is one sacrifice for all time.
But you are wrong that Jesus was made sin. He was sinless. And died and rose again sinless. He did put away sin by the sacrifice.
For Hebrews 9:28 says,
"so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many." To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation"
He bore our sins, in that He substituted Himself to die for our sins. Only believers by faith in the eternal Son of God. Not heretics. They don't believe in Him. The real Jesus Christ of Scripture is made known to us by the Father. For flesh and blood cannot reveal this to you.
---Mark_V. on 9/10/11


//By choosing to believe in "law over grace", we set our hearts harshly towards our fellow man....we "judge" them and become "JUDICIAL" in all of our ways/thoughts ("For fear has to do with punishment", 1 John 4:18).

And that is what the Adventists have done in that they reject God's grace and emphasize the law. And with their created Investigative Judgment they make a liar out of Jesus when He promised that whomseover beleives in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

To them an impossible height of perfection by the law is required to merit life in the world to come.
---leej on 9/9/11


Not everyone is the same. Some people are "JUDICIAL" and enjoy the ideas of "law", "judgement", "wrath", "punishment", fear, etc., but we must not be judicial nor should we set our hearts against our fellow man.

By choosing to believe in "law over grace", we set our hearts harshly towards our fellow man....we "judge" them and become "JUDICIAL" in all of our ways/thoughts ("For fear has to do with punishment", 1 John 4:18).

Our God is loving kind, NOT JUDICIAL.

Don't be like the bible, be like your Father in heaven who provided the sacrificial lamb for our redemption.
---more_excellent_way on 9/9/11


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Because His perfect sacrifice(s) substitutes for our inperfectness.
---Mark_V. on 9/9/11

Scripture tells us the sacrifice was only ONE SACRIFICE not Plural as sacrifice(s), and that sacrifice of Himself was to put away sin.
Jesus was made sin for is, and died in our place, taking our punishment.
Hebrews 9:26
For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Hebrews 10:12
But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God,
---kathr4453 on 9/9/11


God might never decide that YOU PERSONALLY need discipline.

---more_excellent_way on 9/9/11


Hebrews tells us of which ALL are partakers. And those without any discipline are not His true Children.

Don't be deceived, you cannot become partakers of HIS HOLINESS without it.
---kathr4453 on 9/9/11


God might never decide that YOU PERSONALLY need discipline.

Your relationship with your wife is different than with your relatives, etc.. The marriage relationship is PERSONAL between YOU BOTH. Likewise, the relationship between yourself and GOD is also a TWO WAY personal and PRIVATE relationship to nurture, cherish, AND COVET as YOUR OWN.

No matter what you have ever been taught, COVET your relationship to the 'loved one' and keep your worship/devotion intimate, personal and/private/secret.

Matthew 6:6
"when you pray, go into your room and shut the door".

However much "faith" you were given ("varied grace"),..."keep between yourself and God" (Romans 14:22).
---more_excellent_way on 9/9/11


It not that people won't sin. Everyone sins!
1Jn_1:10!
It that your sins are not held against you.
Rom_4:15!
But most people don't, can't, refuse to believe this. Because he said
Mat_5:18!
In your mind, you keep telling yourself, I must uphold the law!
So, you are actually trying to do it by yourself.
Gal_2:18!
You may not be able to see it this way, but you are!
So how can it be fulfilled in you, if you can't believe, he did it for you?

barb, "They failed to obey." Just as everyone has!
In Joh_15:10 he says keep my commandments! Then talks of his father's
Joh_15:12 is clear! But, even this can't be done.
Not because you can't, but because, man won't let you!
---TheSeg on 9/9/11


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Hi Rod!

I believe you KNOW you have a relationship with Him when you have a Testimony like Paul in Philippians 3, That I May KNOW HIm, and the fellowship of His Suffering and the Power of His resurrection...

This relationship comes only through His Only Begotten Son, the one who died and rose again. Our relationship is with the RISEN Christ.

Revelation 1:5
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

1 John 4:9
In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
---kathr4453 on 9/9/11


The most personal relationship a man can have with The Father and The Son is Their presence within. And "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live, yet not I, but Christ lives in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me." Gal 2:20
"Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear My voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with Me." Rev 3:20
"If a man loves Me, he will keep my word, and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him." Jhn 14:23
"God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him." 1Jo 4:16
---josef on 9/9/11


1 Peter 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Acts 13:33
God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again, as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

God fortold in the second psalms about the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
---kathr4453 on 9/9/11


JOHN 3:16, who so ever believes in the Only BEGOTTEN Son will have eternal life.

Interestingly enough Paul tells us in Romans 10:9-10, That if you believe in your heart God raised Jesus from the dead, thou shall be saved.

Putting all together Begotten means He who was raised from the dead.

We too, those who believe in the only Begotten Son have been Begotten again to a living hope through Jesus Christ.

This is exactly what Jesus said to Nichodemus, you must be begotten again, born again. Strongs 1080 SAME WORD!

Only in your identification with Christ in death and resurrection can YOU be begotten/Born Again.
---kathr4453 on 9/9/11


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Ruben, No, all come short of the glory of God, that means everyone. Our righteousness in the face of God is as filthy rags. No matter how many times we want to be perfect we can never be perfect in this life. But we can be saved in this life, by the perfect works of Christ on the Cross. Because His perfect sacrifices substitutes for our inperfectness. His righteousness is imputed to us because our righteousness is as filthy rags. But it takes faith to believe this. No amount of eating a piece of bread can bring that faith, no amount of works you do can create faith in your heart. Faith comes from hearing the Word of God, so faith come from God.
---Mark_V. on 9/9/11


Christianity is a relationship, Father and son or Father and daughter, with Christ being the Father and we being the child. II Cor.6:16-18+ Mt.18:1-4+ Jn.14:9+ Rm.8:14-17. Knowledge of Christ is not a Christian, religion is not a Christian, and attending a church is not a Christian. In the Christ/Christian relationship the soul is Christlike, because as he is, so are we in this world. You will know when the Everliving Christ is in you and he is your God, for your life will change. Please visit my websites for details at,
http colon forward-slash forward-slash eloy1 dot yolasite dot com
http colon forward-slash forward-slash eloy1 dot weebly dot com/
---Eloy on 9/8/11


No. God is not a designer God and neither is His Son. Israel was a group of individuals who were called out by God and were supposed to act as one in obedience to God. They failed to obey.

Jesus prayed that we would be one with Him and His Father. John 17:20-26.

When we learn to obey God and keep His Commandments and to hold to the testimony of Jesus then He takes care of our earthly needs and we start the process of becoming a part of God's family. We are to abide in Jesus and His words because without Him we can do nothing. John 15:1-10.
---barb on 9/8/11


The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

Mat 23:12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased, and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

Luk 3:5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low, and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth,

Mat 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
For ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men:
for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.


Luk 3:6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.
For this cause God shall send them strong delusion!
---TheSeg on 9/8/11


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Ruben, your statement surprises me a lot. Your example of a relationship with Christ falls very short. Just think about all those pedophiles who ate Christ every Sunday and during the week molested children, were they in a relationship with Christ? How about all those who behead so many who spoke against the Catholic Church, were they in a relationship with Christ?

Paul tells us what happens to them:

"Therefore whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord."(1 Cor 11:27)

Mark V* Only those who are born of the Spirit are in a relationship with Christ.

So those who are born of the Spirit do not sin at all, really!
---Ruben on 9/8/11


//This is why Catholics have the most intimate and personal relationship with Jesus Christ..
---Ruben on 9/7/11
It is not because of Food!

1Co 8:8 Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do.
---leej on 9/7/11

Those non-Catholic christian really go out of the way to 'Try' to find any scripture verse that mention eat, flesh and say see Jesus was wrong! Instead all they need to do is say "Many therefore of his disciples, hearing it, said: This saying is hard, and who can hear it?"(Jhn 6:61)
---Ruben on 9/8/11


Ruben, your statement surprises me a lot. Your example of a relationship with Christ falls very short. Just think about all those pedophiles who ate Christ every Sunday and during the week molested children, were they in a relationship with Christ? How about all those who behead so many who spoke against the Catholic Church, were they in a relationship with Christ? How about all those Catholics who persecuted the Jews to such great extremes, who ate Christ, were they in a relationship with Christ? And how about those who ate Christ and worship Mary, and the saints are they also in a relationship with Christ. I don't think so. Only those who are born of the Spirit are in a relationship with Christ.
---Mark_V. on 9/8/11


This is why Catholics have the most intimate and personal relationship with Jesus Christ.
---Ruben on 9/7/11
Then who? Please!
Rom_3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise!

For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
Yes, clearly you do!

For while one saith, I am of Paul, and another, I am of Apollos, are ye not carnal?
Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

But God gave the increase!
So then neither is he that planteth anything!
Neither he that watereth!
But God that giveth the increase!
Amen!
---TheSeg on 9/8/11


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Define " personal relationship."
---Francis on 9/8/11


What,s more personal then a love which would lay down His life, in our place, to die for us, while we were yet sinners, and unlovely? We, that know Him and know that love, love Him in return, We love because He first loved us. The more I see Him/His love (they are inseparable), the more I am moved to love Him in return. Yes it does have an emotional aspect to it, a passion if you will, but it is not only that. Such love chooses to obey even when the feelings are absent. there's the ever increasing desire to know and love Him more, to dwell in His presence.
---chris9396 on 9/7/11


//This is why Catholics have the most intimate and personal relationship with Jesus Christ..
---Ruben on 9/7/11
It is not because of Food!

1Co 8:8 Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do.
---leej on 9/7/11


Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
In many places he says keep my saying, words and commandments. The things that are from God, the thing he is giving us.

What's weird to me is the great difference between Mat_13:19 and Mat_13:23.
In one, you think you understand, but you don't! In the other, you don't think you understand, you do!

I believe if you can see the difference between these. Then you should understand. Basically, unto you it is given! So, when you see them all standing without, you should know why, not to glory!
---TheSeg on 9/7/11


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"But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him." (1 Corinthians 6:17) Being "one spirit with God" is very intimate. Also, "the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us." (in Romans 5:5) To have God sharing His own love with us in our hearts > very personal. And God's love has Heaven's quality of pleasant rest with almighty immunity against fear and dominating passions witch are dictatorial > "you will find rest for your souls." (in Matthew 11:29) And "for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13) This is very personal, how God is working right in each of our wills.
---Bill_willa6989 on 9/7/11


Is there such a thing as a "personal" relationship with God/Jesus? If so, what is the scripture support?

"If any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever, and the bread that I will give, is my flesh, for the life of the world."

"For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed."

"He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him."
(JHN 6:51-57)

This is why Catholics have the most intimate and personal relationship with Jesus Christ..
---Ruben on 9/7/11


Every child of God has a personal relationship with God. God tailors our walk with him based on our personility,how we relate to him and how we can hear as he leads. He desires fellowship from us,therefore to achive such we walk in truth,and obedience. We must line our lives up with the Word of God and we are then lined up with God. We must praise and worship him in adoration. Our life must be one which keeps us walking in the light of God. Read the Word,know the Word,live the Word,share the Word,walk in love if we want a closer personal relationship with God. 2 John 1:5,6 paraphrased,his command from the beginning,we love one another. And this is love that we walk in obedience to his commands.
---Darlene_1 on 9/7/11


God didn't put His deepest truths (1 Corin. 2:10) right out in the open so that EVERYONE could find them.

WE are the "TRUE worshipers" (John 4:23) that are supposed to worship according to the truth (the "doctrine of Christ"/gospel). Our worship/devotion is to be done SPIRITUALLY (in SPIRIT) and is not to be performed PHYSICALLY, but SPIRITUALLY from the heart. We are to know God closely like one of our close, personal love relationships (we are not to have a "book/text/doctrine" or intellectual relationship with Him, but one that is exclusive and unique to EACH ONE of us (with idiosyncrasies/quirks, Rom. 2:17, James 4:5). It should be YOUR OWN private relationship between you and The Lord.
---more_excellent_way on 9/7/11


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1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true, and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

1Co 7:24 Brethren, let every man, wherein he is called, therein abide with God.

Hebrew 12:7 Endure hardship as discipline, God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father?
---leej on 9/7/11


The answer to your question is found in the epistle of 2 Peter 1. And take your time to read the verses and may the Spirit of God open your heart and give you understanding.
---christan on 9/7/11


Eph 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit--just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call--
Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Eph 4:7 But grace was given to each one of us according to the measure of Christ's gift.

maybe both.

(Hello, again, Rod4Him.)
---aka on 9/7/11


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