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Repeated New Testament

Is it true that the ONLY doctrines of the Old Testament that are applicable to Christians are those repeated in the New Testament?

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 ---jerry6593 on 9/9/11
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//Is it true that the ONLY doctrines of the Old Testament that are applicable to Christians are those repeated in the New Testament?
YES, since a covenant is an agreement much like a last will and testament. Older versions are considered obsolete.
--lee1538 11/7/11
So it is ok to lie, steal, kill, worship graven images, commit adultery, or covet my neighbor's wife or house? It seemed to me that in the Sermon on the Mount Jesus made the rules tougher rather than doing away awy with them. Do we forget all the other stories about faith, obedience, and charity?
I think it is very wrong to say the doctrines were obsolete, void. Rather it was made clear they were not sufficient.
---Rocky on 11/7/11


No. No where is the law against sleeping with your Father's wife repeated yet Paul says it is a sin.
I Cor. 5:1 All the Moral laws of the Old Testament are still in effect.

In Galatians 3 Paul reminds us that the New Covenant is based on the Covenant with Abraham. Not by law but by faith are we saved. Yet the law has a purpose to tell us what is a sin.

So the law condemns us all still today as sinners. That is it's current job still. It is established by faith. Romans 3,31

Paul also writes all scripture is for doctrine. Not just parts. I Tim 3:16
---Samuel on 11/7/11


//Is it true that the ONLY doctrines of the Old Testament that are applicable to Christians are those repeated in the New Testament?

YES, since a covenant is an agreement much like a last will and testament. Older versions are considered obsolete.

Hebrew 8:13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

And vanish away it did with the destruction of the Jerusalem temple.

2Co 3:6 who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Those still in the Old Covenant are still waiting for the Spirit.
---lee1538 on 11/7/11


Ignats: "You been disrespectful the moment you got here." (This is just too easy.) I was here long before you, so how would you know?

"Being a hypocrite isn't from God Jerry6538." My name is jerry6593. Now I'm real upset that you got my name wrong! Just playing with you, Iggy. Cluny's name is fake, he said it's his cat's name. I explained to SrtongAxe that I couldn't call him that because he was WEAK in the scriptures. Perhaps I could call him WeakHatchet. As for Ignatius, well .....

Why don't you answer any of my questions? Like the one at the head of this blog?
---jerry6593 on 10/1/11


Uhh, that's a double negative, Iggy. You have been too busy with personal attacks to address the blog question.
---jerry6593 on 9/29/11

"uhh" is not a word. You been disrespectful the moment you got here. You changed Cluny's name to "Clueless". You changed my name to "iggy". You changed StrongAxe name to "Axey". Why don't you address people with the names they chosen on this blog?

You keep ignoring my (and others here) questions toward you.

You love to criticize others here, but, like I and others have shown, you don't keep all the OT Laws. But you like to parade like you do, just like the Pharisees.

Being a hypocrite isn't from God Jerry6538. Repent.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 9/30/11




//Is it true that the ONLY doctrines of the Old Testament that are applicable to Christians are those repeated in the New Testament?

If you pick up any good book on Christian doctrine, you will find that ALL Christian doctrine is based on the New Covenant, not the Old. The Old Mosaic Covenant was given ONLY to the Jewish nation and did not include Gentiles except for proselytes.

Those denominations that based their belief system on OT (Sabbath observance, dietary laws, etc)find that they are in conflict with the more biblically oriented denominations.
---lee1538 on 9/30/11


Ignats: "You didn't answer none of my questions."

Uhh, that's a double negative, Iggy. You have been too busy with personal attacks to address the blog question.
---jerry6593 on 9/29/11


Cluny why bring up man made laws of moses aka mosaic laws Christ ABOLISHED? Eph 2:15 Col 2:14 the dead works of Pharisees by doing so essentially crucifying Christ to Gods LAWS - how wicked!

deception of rcc those christian-pharisee's - the MOTHER of babylon lies Rev 17

Holy Scripture states Christ ABOLISHED mosaic laws (ordinances traditions rituals of men done for show impossible to keep)

Christ ONLY LOVES those who OBEY HIM righteously by keeping the 10 commandments the Spirit of the Law

teaching deception and rejection of Holy Scripture MIXING mosaic laws (letter of the law) INTO GODS Holy LAWS (spirit of the law) embracing lying false ministers who preach salvation is a license to sin in Christ
---Rhonda on 9/29/11


Iggy & Clueless: You guys crack me up. You've gone from a theology of "salvation by religious affiliation" to "salvation by Bible ownership" and now to "salvation by hymnal selection". Good luck with all that in the final judgement. Perhaps if you spent more time learning to obey God rather than looking for ways to disobey Him with impugnity you might fare better.
---jerry6593 on 9/28/11

You didn't answer none of my questions.

Bye Jerry. I knew you wouldn't last long in this blog.

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 9/29/11


\\No. I was just trying to ascertain whether you obey the OT laws about monthly separation of women (which is largely not practiced today).\\

Orthodox Jews still do.

And a week or so after the period ceases (I don't know the full rules on the subject), the woman must undergo a ritual bath in the Mikveh--which involves triple immersion naked.

Hmmmmmm..... where have we heard of this before, Ignatius?

In any case, jerry has made it clear that he does NOT obey all the OT commandments. He just wants to make sure that WE do so he can glory in our flesh.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/27/11




Bingo, Ignatius!
---Cluny on 9/27/11
Cluny, is there a church bingo game going on around here you did not tell me about? Where is it?
---Rocky on 9/27/11


Iggy & Clueless: You guys crack me up. You've gone from a theology of "salvation by religious affiliation" to "salvation by Bible ownership" and now to "salvation by hymnal selection". Good luck with all that in the final judgement. Perhaps if you spent more time learning to obey God rather than looking for ways to disobey Him with impugnity you might fare better.
---jerry6593 on 9/28/11


\\Cluny is correct on both terms. In an SDA hymnal YE WATCHERS AND YE HOLY ONES (text by Athelstan Riley, I believe.) there is a stanza that goes like this:\\

Bingo, Ignatius!

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/27/11


Cluny is correct on both terms. In an SDA hymnal YE WATCHERS AND YE HOLY ONES (text by Athelstan Riley, I believe.) there is a stanza that goes like this:

O higher than the Cherubim,
More glorious than the Seraphim,
Lead their praises, Alleluia.
Thou bearer of the Eternal Word,
Most gracious. magnify the Lord. Alleluia, alleluia, alleulia.

It's a Catholic hymn too. This is a pure invocation of the Virgin Mary, the Theotokos (compare this to our Orthodox hymn sung in our services: "More honorable than the cerubim, and more glorious beyond compare than the seraphim, who without corruption gave birth to the Word of God, and are truly Theotokos [she-who-gave-birth-to God], we magnify you."

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 9/26/11


**I have never seen anywhere that the SDA church teaches that Jesus is not God incarnate. Please correct that
OR BETTER YET show me where your read that.**

I have seen with my own eyes in the SDA REVELATION SEMINAR of the 80's that Jesus is the Archangel Michael.

I have also seen direct invocation of the Virgin Mary in the SDA hymnal.

Now, it COULD be that the SDA has changed its teaching on this matter.

But I prefer to go to the Church that gets things right the first time, and need not change her teachings.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/26/11


jerry6593:

Why call me "Axey"? I call you by the name you choose, can't you do the same?

You asked: Now try to focus. We are talking about YOUR keeping of the NT commands, such as those in Acts 15:20 and Mat 15,17,18.

YOU first brought them up. I just challenged the appropriateness of the question by first asking YOU kept all the OT commandments (which you seem to insist on).

What evidence do you have that I don't keep those?

And just how is my marital sleeping arrangement of interest to you? Are you some kind of pervert or something?

No. I was just trying to ascertain whether you obey the OT laws about monthly separation of women (which is largely not practiced today).
---StrongAxe on 9/26/11


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"Andd just how is my marital sleeping arrangement of interest to you? Are you some kind of pervert or something?
---jerry6593 on 9/24/11

In others words, you don't follow the laws of marital arrangements in the Old Testament. Thus, you are a law breaker, and if you break one Law, you break them all.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 9/25/11


Axey: Now try to focus. We are talking about YOUR keeping of the NT commands, such as those in Acts 15:20 and Mat 15,17,18. You don't keep them, do you? Don't you think it is hypocritical to use the NT repeat ruse to avoid the 4th Commandment, and yet ignore the NT repeat against eating blood?

And just how is my marital sleeping arrangement of interest to you? Are you some kind of pervert or something?
---jerry6593 on 9/24/11


Jerry6539,

I will answer your question as soon as you answered mine.

Do you have a Bible with the entire Old Testament (49 books) or a Bible that has been altered? BTW, I have a original 1611 King James Bible, not a Catholic Bible.

Do you follow all the laws in the Torah? Do you follow all the laws in the Book of Leviticus, commanded by God or are you "selective" in which laws of God in the Old Testament you follow?

Answer me these questions and I will answer yours.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 9/25/11


jerry6593:

Are you married? If so, do you make your wife live in the garage (or in some other place outside the house) once a month? If not, then you are ignoring some parts of the Torah too, and if you violate even one of the 613 laws there, you are guilty of them all, and have no right to nit-pick whether or not other people obey every law either.
---StrongAxe on 9/24/11


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Iggy: "We Orthodox have the entire 27 books of the NT." Big deal. You don't obey them. For example:

Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

Do YOU eat meat with the blood still in it, or is it prepared in a kosher manner?

Do YOU believe Jesus' following words?

Mat 5:17,18 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
---jerry6593 on 9/24/11


The real question, Ignatius, is why does the Orthodox not accept ALL the NT.

Glory to the REAL Jesus Christ!
---jerry6593 on 9/23/11

We Orthodox have the entire 27 books of the NT.. In matter fact, you wouldn't have know what books belong in the NT if weren't for the Ancient Church (in the voice of the Ancient Fathers, those whom you hate) who canonized the Scriptures, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit (your own Scholars/Historians say so).

Do you accept the entire Old Testament (49 books) or do you have later Protestant altered Bible, with books missing?

Since you DO NOT follow all the laws contain in the Torah, you are a Jewish law breaker.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 9/23/11


If you believe what the SDA teaches on this matter, namely that Jesus is Michael the Archangel incarnate and not God Incarnate, then you do NOT believe in the real Jesus Christ.

Slava Iisusu Khristu!
---Cluny on 9/23/11
I have never seen anywhere that the SDA church teaches that Jesus is not God incarnate. Please correct that
OR BETTER YET show me where your read that.

Or be labeled a false witness
---Francis on 9/23/11


\\Jerry6538 and Francis have both told us that they are some Old Testament Laws from God that can be ignore. \\

I asked jerry if he followed the marital laws in the OT, and he apparently does not.

\\The real question, Ignatius, is why does the Orthodox not accept ALL the NT.\\

Who do you think wrote the NT to start with, jerry?

\\Glory to the REAL Jesus Christ!\\

If you believe what the SDA teaches on this matter, namely that Jesus is Michael the Archangel incarnate and not God Incarnate, then you do NOT believe in the real Jesus Christ.

Slava Iisusu Khristu!
---Cluny on 9/23/11


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jerry6593:

Just which parts of the New Testament do you think the Orthodox don't accept?
---StrongAxe on 9/23/11


The real question, Ignatius, is why does the Orthodox not accept ALL the NT.

Glory to the REAL Jesus Christ!
---jerry6593 on 9/23/11


"The real question, Ignatius, is why does the SDA not accept ALL the OT.
****

Although I'm not "sda" whatever that is I follow Christ and EVERY WORD ...Christ and Apostles obeyed Gods Holy Laws

Christ magnified these laws ...lying false ministers teach magnified has a NEW meaning for "spiritual purposes" and ITS meaning is to diminish ...even thought the ACTUAL meaning is to increase as Christ Himself CLEARLY understood and outlined in His examples

Christ abolished the 613 mosaic laws aka laws of moses Col 2:14

if one buys the lie Christ abolished the ten commandments it is easy to REJECT Holy Scripture that contradicts this lie
---Rhonda on 9/23/11


"The real question, Ignatius, is why does the SDA not accept ALL the OT.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/22/11

Amen!

Jerry6538 and Francis have both told us that they are some Old Testament Laws from God that can be ignore. They DO NOT follow all laws contained in the Old Testament, otherwise they will be following the 600+ laws found in them, as do Jews today. For example, they both point to Leviticus 11 for Christians to observe these laws, but ignore the other Laws in the same book.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 9/22/11


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Rocky,

I believe in the entire Old Testament of the Bible (49 books), as they point to Christ and to the Church. The Orthodox Church cherish the Old Testament (the LXX, or the Septuagint) texts as much as we cherish the NT Scriptures. However, like Jerry6538, I also believe that not every law found in these pages are obligated to be followed by Christians under the New Covenant (read Hebrews), such as the laws you mention (Jerry6538 do not believe these laws are to be followed by NT Christians either).

Christians are under a New Covenant, and the Old Testament was a foreshadowing of the revelation in the New Testament.

In IC.XC.,
---IGnatius on 9/22/11


"Ignatius: Do YOU believe ALL of the Old Testament?" (Jerry6538)
Yes.
--Ignatius 9/22/11
Do you follow all Bible commandments? Should we put to death everyone that works on Sabbath (Ex35:2)? Is it OK to sell one's daughter as a slave (Ex21:7)? How can we confine women that are menstruating for 7 days or ensure we have no contact with them (Lev15:19)? Should all young working women be required to take that week off every month? Or for two weeks when a woman bares a female child (Lev12:5)? Do you still give burnt and sin offerings to your priest? How can we stone people for cursing (Lev24:14) and not be sentenced to death ourselves Have you ever stoned anyone for it?
---Rocky on 9/22/11


The real question, Ignatius, is why does the SDA not accept ALL the OT.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/22/11


"Ignatius: Do YOU believe ALL of the Old Testament? " (Jerry6538)

Yes. Both my Orthodox Study Bible and King James Bible (with the deutercanonicals) have the Old Testament in it.

Do you have a Bible with the entire Old Testament (49 books) or a Bible that has been altered?

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 9/22/11


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Ignatius: Do YOU believe ALL of the Old Testament? The Creation account? The universal flood account? The Sabbath Commandment? etc.
---jerry6593 on 9/22/11


"TRUTH seekers should believe EVERY WORD of God HIS WORD the Bible states" (Rhonda)

Then why don't you believe what the Bible states? By your own testimony, you are NOT a Truth Seeker.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 9/21/11


only those who REJECT Holy Scripture would choose to believe that - TRUTH seekers should believe EVERY WORD of God HIS WORD
---Rhonda on 9/21/11

Jesus did it in Matt. 26:44. Jesus prayed a third time in the garden of Gethsemane, saying the exact same words again. In Rom. 1:9, Saint Paul says that he always mentions the Romans in his prayers without ceasing. The Angels in heaven do it, according to Revelation 4:8.

Believe the word of God, and not your man-made teachings and interpretations. The Bible condemns "vain" repetitious.

Stick to the Bible. Believe the Bible Rhonda. Believe in Jesus.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 9/21/11


I never said that! I said that the Bereans checked the NT DOCTRINES (ie, teachings) by the OT. So should we!

"But it was LUKE who wrote Acts, not Paul, as you claimed.
*****

Amen few understand how many verses Christ quoted because many FAIL to comprehend Christ was the GOD of the Israel 1Corin 10:1-4 that is why he is god in the flesh



The Bible condemn "vain" repetitions, not repetitions in prayer.
*****

only those who REJECT Holy Scripture would choose to believe that - TRUTH seekers should believe EVERY WORD of God HIS WORD the Bible states: Matt 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
---Rhonda on 9/21/11


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Cluny: This is the 4th time I've tried to respond to you.

"Then why did you say that they Bereans checked the NT by the Old when the NT had not been written yet?"

I never said that! I said that the Bereans checked the NT DOCTRINES (ie, teachings) by the OT. So should we!

"But it was LUKE who wrote Acts, not Paul, as you claimed.

I never claimed that either. I said that Paul was the chief NT writer. Perhaps you should brush up on your reading skills.

BTW, why don't you open a blog on "all hymns are prayer."? I'm still waiting for an answer to this blog question.
---jerry6593 on 9/18/11


Cluny,
"I don't know how you were able to use my name"

Anyone can use any name they care to in the "Name" field. The "wrong" name has been used in the past when someone (maliciously) used someone else's name to make it seem like the other person was speaking.

Also since the "name" goes in first when posting a reply, in the heat of the moment, so to speak, when someone is more focused on what they have to say than what they are doing, it is easy to think of it as the salutation rather than the personal identifier by mistake.
---Bruce5656 on 9/16/11


Cuny, I apologize for accidentally signing your name to my post. I agree that when I read aloud from Psalms those can be called repetitions, but as I said many times before I am not praying when I do it. And the stricture about "vain repetitions" is about prayer. But I use no prayer book when I pray, I pray from my heart. So I am not doing anything that Jesus said not to do. I thought I had made this all clear many posts ago. I have no idea why you can't understand that I can sing and praise God without praying.
---Rocky on 9/15/11


The Bible condemn "vain" repetitions, not repetitions in prayer.

By the way, the Holy Psalter is the prayer book of the Church, a Holy Gem.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 9/16/11


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\\I can read and repeat many of the praises from Pslams, and have my heart and spirit lifted by them, without praying to Him
---Cluny on 9/15/11
\\

I don't know how you were able to use my name, but since the Psalter is the basic prayer book of Israel and the Church, then what you are doing is PRECISELY what Jesus meant by vain repetitions.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/15/11


Cluny, I can tell you that God is good, Good is great, He has created a marvelous world, all glory to God, He fills my life with love. In that I am praising him but not praying to him. I can read and repeat many of the praises from Pslams, and have my heart and spirit lifted by them, without praying to Him
---Cluny on 9/15/11


I will never understand how praising God is NOT a prayer.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/15/11


Cluny - you said that I have a narrower view of what prayer means than you. That I will agree with. I know that I can sing a hymn and that I can praise God without either being a prayer or either being an attempt to communicate with him like I do in prayer. One other item I agree with you - Glory to Jesus Christ.
---Rocky on 9/14/11


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\\When you praise God, what are you trying to communicate with him? \\

Love, among other things.

You seem to have a narrower view of what prayer means than do I.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/14/11


So when you sing hymns or are praising God, you've not trying to communicate with Him?
-Cuny

No. When you praise God, what are you trying to communicate with him? He already knows the facts of what you are praising Him about and that He is good. He also already knows your heart and what you think of Him. What are you trying to communicate? If intended as communication to Him, sounds to me more like sucking-up. When I praise Him it as my acknowledgement to myself, and sometimes to others, about His wonders and love, a time to let my heart, mind, and mouth to be all be engaged in simultaneous feeling, thought, and expression of my devotion and thankfulness.
---Rocky on 9/14/11


\\ To me, prayer is when I try to communicate directly with God, pretty much like the dictionary says.\\

So when you sing hymns or are praising God, you've not trying to communicate with Him?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/14/11


Cluny, you are the one telling me my hymns are prayers and therefore you need to provide the proof that shows they are or should be. I am only saying when I sing I am not praying and I very well know what I am doing. Like I said before, I can sing without praying and pray without singing. And I can praise God to myself and others without praying. To me, prayer is when I try to communicate directly with God, pretty much like the dictionary says. What is prayer to you? And I can praise God without it being repetition vain or otherwise although there is no commandment against repetition praise, just vain repetition in prayers.
---Rocky on 9/13/11


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Cunny, whether or not an action is a prayer is determined by an individuals intention and actions, not by words on a page or the words coming out of his mouth. I can use the same words to pray, sing, or praise God, and which I do is not determined by the words coming from my mouth but by my intent and which I choose to do.
---Rocky on 9/13/11


\\ If so does that not violate Matthew 6:6 which says we should pray in secret? Are all group hymns at church violating this commandment?\\

And where does Jesus say that ALL prayer should be done in secret? Obviously, one's private devotions should not be done in public.

But there were always public prayers--fixed and liturgical, let me point out--in the synagogues and the Temple, and Jesus NEVER condemned these. In fact, He took leading roles in the synagogue services.

Furthermore, if you read Acts 4:24-30, you will read what is clearly a composed prayer, because the Bible says all the congregation recited it together.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/14/11


\\Cluny: Please cite your authority for stating all singing of hymn are prayers. ... \\

Et reliqua.

Hymns are clearly prayers. If you don't believe me, sit down and read a few of them. What's you're authority to say that hymns are NOT prayers? (Though I admit that some are pretty poor one way or the other.)

Praise to God is a prayer. If you don't realize this, then you clearly were poorly instructed in the Christian spiritual life.

And if you think that praising God is directly for the benefit of yourself or other people, then this, again, is VAIN REPETITION, as you do not have God prinicipally in your mind.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/13/11


Cluny: Please cite your authority for stating all singing of hymn are prayers. As to the second part, since I am not praying, what is wrong with singing hymns for the benefit of uplifting hearts (my own as well as other singers or an audience) or to praise God? I cant believe you say that all hymns should be prayers or they are vain repetitions. Do you sing in church with others and is that a prayer? If so does that not violate Matthew 6:6 which says we should pray in secret? Are all group hymns at church violating this commandment?
---Rocky on 9/13/11


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\\How do you presume to tell me I am praying when I am not?
---Rocky on 9/12/11\\

If you're singing a hymn, you're singing a prayer.

if you're singing it heedlessly, you are indulging in vain repetition.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/13/11


Cluny: I can pray and I can sing and I can choose to do them at different times, which I do. When I sing it is not a prayer. How do you presume to tell me I am praying when I am not?
---Rocky on 9/12/11


It seems to me that Jesus was not forbiding repetition in prayer, rather he was speaking against the belief that God hears one because of repetition. In a similar way the Psalmist seems to decry the use of sacrifices when in fact what God was looking for was sacrifices performed within the correct relationship with God. Psm 51, 16,17

Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
---Bruce5656 on 9/12/11


\\ I do sing songs and they are repetitions, but I do not sing them as a prayer.\\

That's PRECISELY what is meant by "vain repetitions." And that's PRECISELY what you are doing.

Hyms are indeed prayers, or are supposed to be. Haven't you ever sat down with a hymnal and looked through it?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/12/11


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John: Yes, I agree the Lords Prayer was given as a template, along with the direction not to simply repeat it. Prayers, communication with God, should be from the heart not a simple recitation.

Cluny: or only OTHER PEOPLES repetitions? This assumes I sometimes pray this way, which I do not. I do sometimes recite the Lords Prayer to myself, not as a prayer to God but to inspire myself. I do sing songs and they are repetitions, but I do not sing them as a prayer.

Andy: Thank you for your response about the filters.
---Rocky on 9/12/11


\\Cluny: Are you as devoid of reason as you are of common decency? The scriptures studied by th Bereans were the OT - not the New.\\

Then why did you say that they Bereans checked the NT by the Old when the NT had not been written yet?

\\ And yes, it was Paul (together with Silas) who brought word of the Bereans and their adherance to the OT (Acts 17:10,11).\\

But it was LUKE who wrote Acts, not Paul, as you claimed.

And you say **I** am devoid of reason and decency when it's YOU who call names?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/12/11


Rocky, What is Dubbed "The Lord's Prayer" is not a prayer persay , but a template on how to pray.
Jesus saids Pray "LIKE" this. You can use the exact words as a prayer. But it is a template on how to pray.

HERE'S WHAT HE'S SAYING...

ALL PRAYER IN SCRIPTURE(i.e.Psalms) FOLLOW THE SAME TEMPLATE....

1)GIVE PRAISE AND GLORY TO THE KING(Hallow be thine name..)

2)ATTEND TO THE KINGS BUSINESS(Thy will be done...)

3)THEN YOUR PETITION(Give us our daily bread...)

4)REPENTANCE/MERCY/PROTECTION(Forgive us our sins and deliver us....)

Thats the Template of Prayer.
---John on 9/12/11


\\ is prefaced by the warning not to pray with vain repetitions (Matthew 6:7), which is exactly what the reciters are doing\\

Are all repetitions automatically vain, Rocky--or only OTHER PEOPLE'S repetitions?

Do you sing the same hymn--especially one with a refrain--more than once? Why is THIS not vain repetition?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/12/11


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responce from another blog, Rocky, the moderator has a filter to cancel all "bad blogs" but as you see there are technical problems with his system, we should pray that moderator can find finances for proper technical support
---andy3996 on 9/12/11


John: Big deal! Again I ask:

Are you suggesting that we believe you rather than scripture?



Cluny: Are you as devoid of reason as you are of common decency? The scriptures studied by th Bereans were the OT - not the New. And yes, it was Paul (together with Silas) who brought word of the Bereans and their adherance to the OT (Acts 17:10,11).

[Glory to the REAL Jesus Christ - the one who read, taught, and quoted from the OT.]
---jerry6593 on 9/12/11


John - why do you say "for thine is the kingdon" was a scribal addition. I assume you are referring to Matthew 6:13. What I find disconerting is that the Lord's Prayer, which is often recited by many, is prefaced by the warning not to pray with vain repetitions (Matthew 6:7), which is exactly what the reciters are doing.
---Rocky on 9/11/11


John, for what it's worth, the common doxology of the Lord's Prayer, "For thine is the kingdom....." is used in some form by all the pre-Reformation Eastern Churches of Apostolic foundation.

Whether it was actually uttered by Jesus, it probably would have been used as these or similar words were a usual conclusion to most Jewish prayers.

And you're still not okay.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/11/11


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Thanks Cluny, I need to take a look at that. Could be interesting.
---John on 9/11/11


\\It would also be nice for the NT part to begin with John's Gospel and then the 3 Synoptic Gospels ending with Luke. So Luke and Acts become a continuem.\\

This order is followed in Russian Bibles, especially the Synodal edition, but not for the reason you gave.

It's because the Lectionary for the Divine Liturgy starts with John 1 for Pascha.

The usual order is no more than convention. Deal with it.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/11/11


\\Strange, isn't it, that Paul, the chief NT writer, called the Bereans more noble ...\\

Wrong for three reasons:

1. Not ONE WORD of the NT had been written at that point.

2. The cardinal principle in Christian biblical exegesis is to read the OT in light of the New. You've taken this and inverted it.

3. St. Paul did not write Acts.

||Cluny: You just can't resist dragging down an open biblical discussion into a personal attack, can you? Why are you interested in my and my wife's sleeping arrangement? ||

In other words, jerry, you pick and choose which of the OT commandments you observe--yet you have NEVER hesitated to attack me personally.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/11/11


Jerry6593, These are know facts concerning the bible. I am a Pastor, Rabbi, and a Theologian. So naturally over the years, these and other issues come up for discussion.

I have posted many blogs on this and other issues of The Bible.

I listed the major issues that are not debatable in that post.

There are many other issues that need to be addresed. Some of these are debatable.

(i.e. The 5 letters to the Corinthians. We only have 2nd(listed as 1st) and 4th(listed as 2nd Corinthians)

If we find the other letters will they be Canonical?
---John on 9/11/11


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John: You seem to speak with such athority as though you were actually there in Bible times. What is the source of your knowledge of those scriptural errors? Are you suggesting that we believe you rather than scripture?


Cluny: You just can't resist dragging down an open biblical discussion into a personal attack, can you? Why are you interested in my and my wife's sleeping arrangement? Should I ask you if you are enjoying your freedom to break the OT injunction mentioned by Francis below? I doubt seriously that your actions glorify Christ in the slightest, so why don't you stop dragging His holy name through the mud?
---jerry6593 on 9/11/11


1st of all... OT and NT are just an illusion nothing else!

I would like to see a Bible published without this false separation.

It should be one continous book.

WHILE I'M AT IT...

It would also be nice for the NT part to begin with John's Gospel and then the 3 Synoptic Gospels ending with Luke. So Luke and Acts become a continuem.

Also they need to remove the name James and replace it with Jacob. Since James does not exist in scripture.

ALSO...

Change Esphesians- back to Laodiceans

Remove all Scribal additions (i.e. Lords Prayer..."For thine is the glory and Kingdom.....).
Not in the prayer never spoken by Christ.
---John on 9/10/11


Assuming that you are married, jerry, do you and your wife sleep in separate beds during her period?

If you have children, where did she offer the accustomed sacrifice for her purification after childbirth?

These are doctrines of the OT.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/10/11


Strange, isn't it, that Paul, the chief NT writer, called the Bereans more noble than the Thessolonicans for judging the NT concepts by the OT, rather than the other way around.

Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
---jerry6593 on 9/10/11


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Is it true that the ONLY doctrines of the Old Testament that are applicable to Christians are those repeated in the New Testament?

NO The NT was writen mainly to correct errors in the church, things that were not issues of error are not repeated as they were the accepted norm in the church.

here is one that is in OT and NOT in NT because it was not an issue:

Leviticus 20:15 And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast.

Leviticus 18:23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it [is] confusion.
---Francis on 9/9/11


Jesus says to live "by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." (in Matthew 4:4) So, I can see that every word of the early scriptures can feed us, somehow, to live how God desires. Jesus does also say, "'You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life, and these are they which testify of Me.' (John 5:39) So, the earlier scriptures testify of Jesus. But this comes with how the Holy Spirit has us understanding.
---Bill_willa6989 on 9/9/11


I would say yes. But the old testament is a good example of following and not following the doctrine. However this question is said to find a way around doing something that God has in the OT but also says in the NT using different language. For example tithes and offerings.
---Scott1 on 9/9/11


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