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Immortal Soul Biblical

Is the belief in the immortality of the soul biblical or pagan?

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 ---jerry6593 on 9/9/11
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\\Iggy: "Get yourself a real Bible." Do you mean a Catholic Bible like yours? No thanks.
---jerry6593 on 9/24/11\\

The book of Wisdom, Tobit, and the like ARE in the complete KJV, which is hardly a Catholic version.

Anyway, I use the ORTHODOX Bible--that is, the real one.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/25/11


//How could Stephen say "receive my spirit" and then "fall asleep" if the spirit falls asleep with the body?

One needs to recognize that the soul sleep thing is an invention of olde Ellen White and always has been a minority view.

Even Jesus on the Cross cried out "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit!

Adventists often mistranslate 'spirit' as 'breath' but that would make ridiculous what Jesus stated on the Cross.

If there was only the body and not a spirit then He would not have stated that.
---leej on 9/24/11


James L: It amazes me how you try to force a scripture to say the opposite of what it actually says, and then accuse those of us who disagree of "embrac[ing] the pagan tactic of dodging scriptural arguments in favor of smart-alec rhetoric and philospohical arguments".

I'll bet you knew that the typical outcome of stoning was death, and that Stephen died after giving up the pneuma (breath of life). He was not still alive - he was dead. If he were still conscious, why was he said to be asleep? Don't you think that if people remained alive in death as spooks that the Bible would have mentioned it even once?

Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth, in that very day his thoughts perish.
---jerry6593 on 9/24/11


Rhonda & Ignatious, Lazarus' resurrection from the dead was not a parable. It was an actual event that happened in which Lazarus was raised from the dead at Jesus' command. There is a separate parable in the Bible about a man named Lazarus, in which a rich man in hell begged him to touch his finger in water and place it on his tongue. But the story of Lazarus being raised from the dead was not a parable, it was an actual miracle performed by Jesus.
---Jed on 9/24/11


"the story of Lazarus is a PARABLE - the BIG LIE about this parable is the false teaching that ADDS heaven and hell because those ideas must be implied the parable makes no mention of EITHER!
---Rhonda on 9/24/11"

Who said anything about "heaven or hell" in Luke 16:19-31, but you alone?

Jesus taught a parable about a man who went to Abraham's Bosom after his death and another man who went into torment, based on their works. Are you saying Jesus was wrong in using the "afterlife" in one of his parable?

The REAL Jesus believe in the afterlife and the immortality of the soul, otherwise he wouldn't used such doctrines in his ministry.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 9/25/11




Iggy: "Get yourself a real Bible." Do you mean a Catholic Bible like yours? No thanks.
---jerry6593 on 9/24/11

I said I had a original 1611 King James Bible. Catholic Bible? Where did you get that idea?

Get yourself a genuine Bible Jerry6539. A original King James Bible with the deutercanonicals books in them. Not a Catholic one, but a King James Bible, the original.

In IC.XC.,
---IGnatius on 9/25/11


"For the living know they will die, but the dead do not know anything, nor have they any longer a reward, for their memory is forgotten." Eccl 9:5 NASB

"Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do [it] with thy might, for [there is] no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest." Eccl 9:10 NASB
---scott on 9/25/11


Jerry,

What about Stephen in Acts 7?

Have you embraced the pagan tactic of dodging scriptural arguments in favor of smart-alec rhetoric and philospohical arguments?

Col 2:8
"Beware lest any man spoil you through vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."

How could Stephen say "receive my spirit" and then "fall asleep" if the spirit falls asleep with the body?

If the spirit is inextricably joined to the body, where is the spirit when the body has rotted away? Does the spirit rot with the body?

You need to stop the nonsense and start answering some quesions. From scripture, and not your bias
---James_L on 9/24/11


"Glory to the REAL Jesus Christ - the one who calls death an unconscious "sleep" and performs resurrections from it.
---jerry6593 on 9/23/11"

You lie. Jesus did not say "unconscious sleep". He said Lazarus was in "sleep",
****

Jerry understands GODS TRUTH the POWER of the resurrection of ALL in Him 1Corin 15 - the BIG LIE is to DENY the resurrection of those who are DEAD

the story of Lazarus is a PARABLE - the BIG LIE about this parable is the false teaching that ADDS heaven and hell because those ideas must be implied the parable makes no mention of EITHER!
---Rhonda on 9/24/11


"Glory to the REAL Jesus Christ - the one who calls death an unconscious "sleep" and performs resurrections from it.
---jerry6593 on 9/23/11"

You lie. Jesus did not say "unconscious sleep". He said Lazarus was in "sleep", and Biblical scholars and Historians tell us that the word "sleep" was a common Euphemism in those days.

Glory to the REAL Jesus who used the afterlife in the one of his parable (Luke 16:19-31). Remember, a parable always illustrate a story that was "possible" (read his other parables).

So Jerry, you do not have a real Bible nor do you believe in the REAL Jesus. Wow!

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 9/24/11




Francis,

wait a minute. On one hand, you are arguing that the spirit and the body are one inseperable unit. That's why Mark V made the comment that "you guys" must not believe in the present reality of being born again.


But on the other hand you are trying to make a distinction between physical and spiritual. you can't have it both ways.

You are taking both sides of the debate, but only when each is convenient
---James_L on 9/24/11


Francis, you just don't get it. My answer to you was not whether you were dead in trespasses and sin, but that when He save you by grace he made us alive together with Christ, by raising us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places, not in the physical, but in the spiritual. So how can the spirit be in the grave asleep with a dead body separated from Christ unless Christ is asleep with us in the grave?
Dead in trespasses means spiritually dead and need to be made alive by God. Salvation brings spiritual life to the dead. The power that raises believers out of death and makes them alive (Rom. 6:1) is the same power that energizes every aspect of Christian living (Rom. 6:11-13).
---Mark_V. on 9/24/11


Iggy: "Get yourself a real Bible." Do you mean a Catholic Bible like yours? No thanks.
---jerry6593 on 9/24/11


" But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even WHEN WE WERE DEAAD IN TRESPASSES, made us alive together with Christ by grace you have beens saved, and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus"
Seems to me you do not agree.
---Mark_V. on 9/23/11

You have taken this WAY WAY out of context.
This is not talking about being physically dead, it is talking about SPIRITUAL death IE living is SIN.

DId you net get the part that said: "
WHEN WE WERE DEAD IN TRESPASSES" not dead and buried in the grave DEAD IN SIN

what does DEAD IN TRESPASSES mean to you?
---Francis on 9/24/11


The Book of Wisdom is part of the original 1611 KJV and all of its 5 recensions (the last two being in 1769 and 1905).

Glorhy to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/23/11

In 2006, another King James Bible was published with this book (and the other books such Tobit, Judith) called "KJV New Cambridge Paragraph Bible". I have it, but it is very heavy so I stick with the original 1611 King James Bible.

Tradition of men later omitted these books from the KJB and other Bibles (although a increasing number of modern day translations are included these books in their Bible versions).

In IC.XC.,
---IGnatius on 9/24/11


Francis, I don't have a problem you guys have a problem.
If the body is dead, buried, the Spirit you say is asleep in the grave when a person dies, doesn't that say He is not together with Christ in the heavenly places? Hello.
" But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ by grace you have beens saved, and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus"
Seems to me you do not agree.
---Mark_V. on 9/23/11


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\\Why didn't Lazarus tell of his trip to heaven and his disappointment at being dragged back (into a mortal body)?\\
---jerry6593 on 9/22/11

Just as a matter of information, my mother did something similar. She was in the hospital, going into total syatem failure. she looks up and says "one more step". My brother asked what she meant. She said "I see it. Oh, it is so beautiful"

about that time, she an immediate recovery.

I will never forget how upset she was. She started crying and said "Why, why did He make me come back to this God-forsaken place?"

She lived another year after that
---James_L on 9/23/11


"my KJV does not have a book of "Wisdom" (jerry6538)

That's because you do not a real Bible, but a version created by men. I have the original 1611 KJB with the Book of Wisdom of Solomon in it. Get yourself a real Bible.

"The Bible clearly states that only God is immortal"

Only God has immortality by nature, but our souls are by grace.

"yet you contend (like the pagan Greeks)...."

Saint Paul contended when the pagan Greeks with it suited his purpose. Saint Peter called the body "a tent" or a "house/Tabernacle" just like the pagans did. Saint Paul said it was possible for one be awake outside the Body (2 Cor 12:1-5)

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 9/23/11


. What all of you suggest is that there is no Spiritual rebirth while you live. That somehow you are reborn after you die. How is that even possible? ---Mark_V. on 9/23/11

man you have a real problem, where did you see any of that stuff. You are either just making up stuff AGAIN,
or you have a comprehension problem
---Francis on 9/23/11


\\Funny, my KJV does not have a book of "Wisdom".\\

That's because you don't have the whole Bible, but a Bible full of holes, jerry.

The Book of Wisdom is part of the original 1611 KJV and all of its 5 recensions (the last two being in 1769 and 1905).

Glorhy to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/23/11


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---James_L on 9/23/11
It is nice to agree
---francis on 9/23/11


Francis, you just agreed with me. read my post.

resurrection

But we are born again in spirit now (1Pet 1:3)
---James_L on 9/23/11


Not when we die, but at the last trump.
So even at death we do not have immortality, that is given at the last trump.
---francis on 9/22/11

You right. Our bodies do not contain immortality. We are not immortal, like our first Parents were. Because humanity suffers the effects of our first Parents' Fall, physical death (i.e., the separation of the body from the soul) occurs. However, at the Second Coming of Christ and the Resurrection, those who part of the Body of Christ (the Church) will no longer suffer physical or spiritual death.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 9/23/11


IGGY: "My King James Bible in Wisdom 3:1-4 illustrates the immortality of the soul."

Funny, my KJV does not have a book of "Wisdom". You go to great lengths to explain how the Bible says what it does not say and does not say what it clearly says. The Bible clearly states that only God is immortal, yet you contend (like the pagan Greeks) that we have an immortal spook trapped within. Why?

Glory to the REAL Jesus Christ - the one who calls death an unconscious "sleep" and performs resurrections from it.
---jerry6593 on 9/23/11


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Francis, the body does not have immortality when it dies, you should know that, it turns to dust. At the Second Coming every single believer who has turned to dust will rise with a glorified body. I always though SDA's who are saved by grace through faith believed in been born again of the Spirit. Baptized into One body in Christ in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus. What all of you suggest is that there is no Spiritual rebirth while you live. That somehow you are reborn after you die. How is that even possible? You would have to get rid of most of the New Testament. How can you be with Christ in One body, and in the dirt asleep? Just rediculous.
---Mark_V. on 9/23/11


2 Corinthians 5:4 For we that are in [this] tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

When does mortality wallowed up of life?

1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality

Not when we die, but at the last trump.
So even at death we do not have immortality, that is given at the last trump.
---francis on 9/22/11


Francis,

2Cor 5:6 & 8
...knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord - I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.

Francis, what did I misquote?

And how are people misusing this passage?

Read the whole passage. Our body is a tent. We will take off our tent. We don't want to be unclothed (without a body). But we must take off this mortal body and put on an immortal body at the resurrection.

\\If the soul went to heaven when one dies...Would they not have been better off in heaven than on earth?\\

No human was in heaven until Christ died. As for why, that's nothing more than vain philosophy trying to usurp the word of God
---James_L on 9/22/11


\\To take them from the presence of the lord and return them back to this earth to live in the painful, disease infested world led by the prince of this world
---Francis on 9/22/11\\

I don't know anyone who believes this.

Sounds to me like you're using a straw man argument.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/22/11


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Some people think that when you die you go to heaven to be with God. the even miss use " absent from the body present with the lord.." to mean once you die you then go to be in the presence of the lord. If that were true, what a great injustice, what a great misdeed has been doen to those who have died in christ: To take them from the presence of the lord and return them back to this earth to live in the painful, disease infested world led by the prince of this world
---Francis on 9/22/11


If the soul went to heaven when one dies, why then did the apostles and even jesus resurrect the dead?
Would they not have been better off in heaven than on earth?

Ecclesiastes 9:4 For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
---Francis on 9/22/11


the point is not created(by Paul's comment)that the soul is immotal. The point is Paul leaves his spacesuit and the is present with the Kyrie.Then that is better.
---marlowe_frantz on 9/22/11


Paul said that He would rather be absent from the body and present with the Lord. What does he mean by that?
---James_L on 9/22/11

missquote
---Francis on 9/22/11


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Biblical:
"And many of them who sleep in the ground of dust will awake: some to life everlasting, and some to shame, to horror everlasting." Daniel 12:2
"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand in front of God, and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which being the Life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works." Revelation 20:12.
---Eloy on 9/22/11


"Why didn't Lazarus tell of his trip to heaven and his disappointment at being dragged back (into a mortal body)?" (jerry6538)

What makes you sure this never happen, as the Gospel writers did not tell us all that occurred in the life of Christ and His Ministry (i.e., case in point, only one story of his childhood is persevered in the canonical Gospels)?

Christ and Lazarus (and maybe even the disciples) may have had this discussion. Who knows. Either way, you can't prove they didn't.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 9/22/11


Jerry,

the story of Lazarus and the rich man does teach that we leave the bodyas a conscience being.

Paul said that He would rather be absent from the body and present with the Lord. What does he mean by that?

Lazarus was "sleeping" because a body looks asleep when it dies.

Acts 7:59-60
When Stephen was stoned, he said "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." Then he fell asleep.
---James_L on 9/22/11


"Why did Jesus say that He was going to heaven to prepare a place for us" (Jerry6538)

Our bodies will be resurrected. Read your Bible.

"Why did He speak of Lazarus' death as a sleep?"

Biblical scholars and Historians tell us that it was a common Euphemism.

"Why didn't Lazarus tell of his trip to heaven and his disappointment at being dragged back (into a mortal body)?"

What makes you so sure he didn't? Read John 21:25.

"Why does the NT say that David has not yet ascended to heaven?"

The Greek Text has it past tense (I verified this from a Protestant Greek Professor), as the NKJV (and other versions) has rightfully translated it.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 9/22/11


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In Acts 2:25-35, we are told about David's prophecy concerning Christ. Verse 34 is render in the NKJV (and other translations) as "For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself [Psalm 110:1 is quoted afterwards).

The context of the Scripture is not about David's after death state (or lack thereof), but rather his prophecy concerning Christ. The Prophet David did not need to go to heaven (whether in the body or out of the body, as Saint Paul wrote) to deliver what he saw. He spoke, as moved by the Holy Ghost (1 Peter 1:21).

The Seventh Day Adventist heretical sect twisted this Scripture to fit with their dogma.

In IC.XC.,
---IGnatius on 9/22/11


Jerry, you said that Lazurus was asleep, while not breathing, talking, eating, thinking, even dreaming, for had been dead four days, and you say no, he was asleep.
Your theology is wrong. you believed just as the disciples did who heard Jesus say he was asleep.
Jesus said to them plainly, "Lazurus is dead. And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, that you may believe" But you don't Jerry, you believe just like the disciples who were wrong.
He said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life, he who believes in Me though he may die, he shall live and never die. Do your believe this?"
You sure don't.
---Mark_V. on 9/22/11


"This is pagan Greek philosophy"
---jerry6593 on 9/20/11"

Well, if Saint quoted from pagan poet and writers (1 Corinthians 15:33, Acts 17:28), why can't some other elements of Greek philosophy be true? Saint Paul was a former pharisee after-all, and they believed in the immorality of soul. No wonder he still believes it in the NT, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit (2 Cor 5:1-8) and so did Saint Peter (2 Peter 1:13-15). Look even Saint Peter used Greek Philosophy (calling the body a "tent") to illustrate godly truth.

Christ believed it too, otherwise he would not have used a parable about it--->Luke 16:19-31.

You need to deal with the facts.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 9/22/11


Any knowledgeable student of the Bible, and Ancient Babylonian and Greek Philosophy, theology, myths, legends, etc, will you tell that many concepts of the Old Testament (incenses, sacrifices, bells, holy objects, priesthood clothing, images, special days [holidays], etc) was also part of nearby pagan religions/cultures. In fact, praying is a "pagan" tradition. Going to temples (or churches) is what the pagans did too. Stories similar to Gen 6:5-22 are documented as history or legend in almost every region on earth.

Either Jerry do not know this fact or he just think we are dumb and will fall into his "pagan" tactic.

My King James Bible in Wisdom 3:1-4 illustrates the immortality of the soul.

In IC.XC.,
---IGnatius on 9/22/11


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James L: I understand your theory, but it does not agree with scripture. No scripture states that the spook (soul, spirit, non-corporeal entity) leaves the body at death as a conscious being and zooms through space to heaven, there to await transport back to earth for a new body. Why couldn't God make a new body in heaven?

Why did Jesus say that He was going to heaven to prepare a place for us and would RETURN FOR US if we were already with him. Why did He speak of Lazarus' death as a sleep? Why didn't Lazarus tell of his trip to heaven and his disappointment at being dragged back (into a mortal body)? Why does the NT say that David has not yet ascended to heaven?
---jerry6593 on 9/22/11


Jerry,

I tend to get a little fired up when people accuse a scriptural teaching of having pagan origins.

That KJV uses "tabernacle" at 2Cor 5 and 2Pet 1. Like Mark V said, The OT tabernacle was a tent.

Which bible version I use, several. For general use, mostly NASB.

For NT studies, I use United Bible Societies' third edition.

As for why we can't just leave our bodies at our whim, God didn't design us to be without a body.

But sin cannot enter heaven. When we are regenerated, only our spirit is fit for heaven, because it is without sin. But our flesh has not been regenerated yet.

We must leave it behind, and wait for the resurrection to be clothed in [bodily] immortality
---James_L on 9/21/11


To anyone who does not believe in eternal life, get a strongs concordance and look up "eternal life", "forever and ever", "everlasting". We who are truly born again do have eternal life.
---shira3877 on 9/21/11


James L, it's funny how Jerry found it funny that you would use the word "Tent" in your answer. Boy he must not read Scripture for him to make a joke about it. Paul's and Peter's metaphor was for the physical body. The imaginary was quite natural for that time because many people were nomadic tent dwellers, and Paul as a tentmaker (Acts 18:3) knew much about tents characteristics. Also the Jewish tabernacle had symbolized God's presence among the people as they left Egypt and became a nation. Pauls point is that like a temporary tent, man's earthly existence is fragile, insecure, and lowly ( 1 Peter 2:11).
---Mark_V. on 9/21/11


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James L: C'mon, lighten up. "Tent spooks" is funny stuff. What Bible version are you using? I use the KJV and Strong's Concordance, and neither one mentions "tents".

I have some questions for you. If YOU can indeed exist as a non-corporeal entity (a spook), then why must your tent be destroyed in order for you to leave it? Why not just come and go as you please? And just how tight a weave must the tent fabric be in order to hermetically seal the spook inside?
---jerry6593 on 9/21/11


Jerry,

Psalm 146:3-4
Do not trust in princes, in mortal man, in whom there is no salvation. His Spirit Departs, He Returns To The Earth, In That Very Day His Thoughts Perish

James 2:26
...the body without the spirit is dead...

Matt 10:28
Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul


Chalk up a few more biblical writers who were influenced by pagan Greek philosophy

Let's see who made your list:

David, Solomon, Matthew, Paul, Peter, James were all duped by pagan Greek philosophy, huh? And I guess since they were all inspired by the Holy Spirit, then God Himself must have developed His Word from the pagans, too.

Nice, Jerry. Nice.
---James_L on 9/20/11


Rhonda, first of all I'm not stalking you. I run into your weird remarks or answers so I question what you say. You made an accusation about others concerning Rom. 6:23, and no one had mentioned Rom. 6:23 but you.
If you want to speak about Rom. 6:23 and present a case for it go ahead. Maybe then you will find what others have to say about those passages. Otherwise don't accuse others of twisting those passages since no one has brough them up but you.
---Mark_V. on 9/21/11


You don't believe in been born of the Spirit, which is forever, because you don't believe Jesus is God
****

Rom 6:23 is very clear ...this verse is one of many that REJECTS the philosophical pagan teaching of an immortal soul ...as I STATED used as an example

however if I were you I would be more concerned with your NEED to stalk me AGAIN and spread false statements about my beliefs rather than how I interpret BY EXAMPLE how pagan philosophies must be understood when applied to Holy Scripture

no surprise you had no Scripture to share - not one verse implies pagan immortality of the human soul

as I STATED there would be NO GIFT to receive in Rom 6:23 if one already possessed immortality
---Rhonda on 9/20/11


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Jerry6593,

it's nice to know you ROFL at scripture.

What is your take on those scriptures in which it says the Word of God pitched His tent in our midst, Paul wrote that he would put off his tent, Peter wrote that he would put off his tent?

John 1:14, 2Cor 5:1-9, 2Pet 1:13-15

I guess you believe Jesus taught the apostles a bunch of pagan Greek philosophy.

Nice to know what you think of Him.

Maybe Solomon had some pagan thoughts, too.

Eccl 12:7
"Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.

How about you quote one of your pagan references admitting that he influenced Solomon, Paul, Peter and even the Holy Spirit
---James_L on 9/20/11


Rhonda, why don't you just speak truth and let everyone answer to it. Why do you say,
"so much must be REJECTED than ADDED back to Rom 6:23 to MAKE the pagan immortality philosophy lie "true"
Not one person has quoted Romans 6:23. Or added to it or took away from it. You build words not found in any of us. The Bible does not speak of "Aka soul" only soul. You don't believe in been born of the Spirit, which is forever, because you don't believe Jesus is God. And as long as you don't, how can you speak of spiritual matters. The natural mind cannot discern spiritual matters.
---Mark_V on 9/20/11


This is pagan Greek philosophy - a good spirit "trapped" in a bad body.
****

AMEN Jerry

Zech 12:1 GOD forms the spirit of man within him ...aka SOUL

Ecc 12:7 the spirit returns to GOD because HE gave it (refer to Zech 12:1)

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

there would be NO GIFT if one already POSSESSED immortality

so much must be REJECTED than ADDED back to Rom 6:23 to MAKE the pagan immortality philosophy lie "true"

Rom 6:23 (read through pagan lie)"for the wages of sin is death by body but the gift of God is eternal life by body ...to then live eternally with your immortal soul"
---Rhonda on 9/20/11


"Has anyone else noticed that the word immortal or immortality is never used in the O.T.?" I had not noticed, nor was I aware that motal and immortal are used so seldom, however, the concepts of mortality as well as immortality are a lot more common.
---Chria9396 on 9/19/11


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Rhonda: Please address your blog response to the person you're addressing so I don't have to look it up. I found that you were talking to James L, and that he believes that the essence of us human beings is a bunch of spooks living in tents. ROFL! I guess the tent has no doors, so that it must be destroyed in order for us to escape. This is pagan Greek philosophy - a good spirit "trapped" in a bad body.
---jerry6593 on 9/20/11


Jerry, of course I said the spirit of a genuine believer is immortal, it will never die. The physical body is not yet immortal. At the Second Coming it will become immortal when it will be change with a body prepared for eternity. The spirit of the believer does not go to sleep or take naps. It is never again separated from Christ. For He will never leave you. It is spiritually baptized into one body. It is one body part in the body of Christ, for the body has many parts. It does not take naps while in the body of Christ. The spirit is spirit, needs no sleep.
---Mark_V. on 9/20/11


\\you claim immortality is JUST your body???\\
---Rhonda on 9/11/11

Put in quotes whatever I wrote that gave you such a retarded idea.
****

here we go AGAIN another love professing hollow christian SLAMMING with the name calling and labeling!!!

angry because the TRUTH was shared and you choose to REJECT

I choose EVERY WORD from Holy Scripture Luke 4:4

seems you determine what to believe and when people don't agree you lash out like an angry teenager

you look foolish because the "RETARDED IDEA" is from Holy Scripture so in reality you choose to dismiss Holy Scripture

there is no immortality of the SOUL that idea is VOID in Holy Scripture
---Rhonda on 9/19/11


Has anyone else noticed that the word immortal or immortality is never used in the O.T.? The Hebrew word "enowsh" defines mortal man in his entirety, male or female. The word "mortal" is specifically and clearly applied in Job 4:17. Although I will have to admit that in the N.T. the word mortal is applied twice to the body, (Rom 6:12>8:11), and only once to "flesh", as in the carnal nature of man. (2 Cor.4:11) It identifies the soul of man apart from the divine influence of the Father as mortal, although the life of Christ can be revealed through it. The word immortal is only used once in scripture, referencing the Father, and of course is now applicable to the risen Jesus. 1Ti 1:17
---Josef on 9/18/11


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MarkV: I quoted your own words back to you. I just reread it, per your request. It still says that the spirit is IMMORTAL. If you NOW believe that man does not have an immortal spirit within him, then say so. But don't say that you didn't say what you clearly said!
---jerry6593 on 9/16/11


.
---jerry6593 on 9/15/11


Yes Jerry, I do believe we now have the life of the Resurrected Christ within us. Paul teaches those whom He has Justified He has also Glorified. I am Promised a Glorified Body at the reuurrection. We don't know what we will be, but we know we will be like Him.

So the New Creature NOW is a New Creature NOW waiting for our Glorified bodies.


Romans 6 state we are raised now a New Creature In Christ.

The question was immortal soul. Jesus came to save my SOUL, of which NOW it is saved and Hidden with God in Christ, just waiting for my Glorified body. And when Christ who is our life appears we will appear with Him.
---kathr4453 on 9/16/11


Jerry, no, no, no to you. You read my answer wrong.
I said man is mortal. Go back and read it. I did not say,

"No, no, no! The Bible nowhere mentions that man has an inherent, immortal, self-existent spook within him" that transcends death."

Get your facts right before you answer. Don't put words in my answers.
---Mark_V. on 9/15/11


MarkV: "Which indicates that the Spirit is already immortal"

No, no, no! The Bible nowhere mentions that man has an inherent, immortal, self-existent spook within him that transcends death. It DOES say that only God has immortality (that leaves us out), that the dead are unconscious (asleep), and that they live not again until the resurrection (either the first or the second).

You seem to be in agreement with kathr, although she only sees the resurrection as a spiritual exercise that happens separately to each believer.
---jerry6593 on 9/15/11


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2 Tim. 1:10 - "Christ Jesus abolished death, and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel"
Immortality in man is derived from God in Christ by His grace
John 11:26 - "everyone who lives and believes in Me shall never die"
John 14:19 - "because I live, you shall live also"
Rom. 2:7 - "those who seek immortality, find eternal life"
Immortality and eternal life are received in regeneration Jn. 3:7 - "you must be born again" Jn. 3:16 - "whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life" I Pet. 1:3 - "born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead"
---kathr4453 on 9/12/11


Kathr, I believe you got confused with mortal and immortal. Or maybe you didn't. But Jerry is correct, the flesh right now is mortal and it will be changed to immortal at the Second Coming. Which indicates that the Spirit is already immortal, but the body is not until the Second Coming. It will be change to immortality. The Spirit is already alive to Christ forever, now the body will be change. It will be and immortal body prepared for eternity. And Rhonda is wrong, and so are many others, the Spirit is not asleep somewhere in the grave, and it is not dead. When a person dies, the spirit is alive to Christ in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus our Lord.
---Mark_V. on 9/12/11


kathr: If your not immortal to begin with then how can you put on immortality in the first place.

What? You don't make sense. Why would an immortal person need to "put on" immortality when they already have it? And why would Jesus need to return to get us and take us to where He is if we were already with Him in heaven?

Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself, that where I am, there ye may be also.
---jerry6593 on 9/12/11


\\you claim immortality is JUST your body???\\
---Rhonda on 9/11/11

Put in quotes whatever I wrote that gave you such a retarded idea.

The resurrection spoken of in 1Cor 15 is for the TENT that Paul and Peter spoke of "putting off" (2Cor 5:1-4, 2Pet 1:13-14)

"For While We Are IN THIS TENT, We Groan Under Our Burden, Because We Wish Not To Be Unclothed But To Be Further Clothed, SO THAT WHAT IS MORTAL MAY BE SWALLOWED UP BY LIFE.

It is abundantly clear that we are CLOTHED in a PHYSICAL BODY.

CONTEXT, Rhonda. Comparing scripture with scripture.

Superficial reading of words, that's all you're doing. Try studying next time, ok?
---James_L on 9/11/11


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1Cor 15 is talking about PHYSICAL immortality. This blog is about immortality of the soul.
*****

the context of pagan immortality? 1Corin 15 is about eternal LIFE aka immortality is LIFE ...you claim immortality is JUST your body???

When you have a GROSS misunderstanding of Holy Scripture it has nothing to do with context seeing CONTEXT is what allows false lying ministers to REJECT distort and contextually SPIN Holy Word of God and insert pagan immortality

Spiritual understanding to understand Gods Truth or contextually DIVIDING Word of God? ...the context lesson is simply reasoning to REJECT the plain truth of 1Corin 15 resurrection to ETERNAL LIFE hence the soul lives eternally at Christ return
---Rhonda on 9/11/11


Rhonda,

I don't reject the scipture, I just pointed out that you used it out of context. It's not my fault that you don't understand context, that's your fault.

1Cor 15 is talking about PHYSICAL immortality. This blog is about immortality of the soul. Get them straight before you start hurling "pagan" accusations

Where does the bible say that the soul does not live?

Rom 6:11
Consider yourselves to be DEAD to SIN, but ALIVE to GOD

Romans 7:24-25
Who will rescue me from this BODY of death?
Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with my MIND (soul) I am a slave to the law of GOD,
but with my FLESH I am a slave to the law of SIN.
---James_L on 9/11/11


One must PUT ON Christ NOW, that is what putting on immortality is
****

"PUT ON Christ" is NOT the same as immortality ...seeing the MORTAL (aka one who will die Heb 9:27, 1Corin 15:53) puts on immortality

TRUTH is no mortal human has immortality NOW seeing Holy Scripture STATES ONLY GOD has immortality ...which is why one puts on immortality when they are resurrected hence the resurrection chapter explains in detail it is an event that happens WHEN Christ RETURNS 1Corin 15

to believe one has immortality now is to DENY Christ, deny HE died and, REJECT the power of Christ in the resurrection of all 1Corin 15
---Rhonda on 9/11/11


no humans are currently immortal. Paul states that we "put on" immortality at the last trump (Jesus 2nd coming) (1 Cor 15:51-54) - indicating that we were not immortal beforehand.///

If your not immortal to begin with then how can you put on immortality in the first place.

One must PUT ON Christ NOW, that is what putting on immortality is, putting one Christ. How can someone who doesn't even exist put on Christ in the end?

Those who have put on Christ will be raised In Christ. Jesus said , I am the Resurretion..
---kathr4453 on 9/11/11


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James L The reason I believe as I do concerning this, in addition to that which I have already stated, is this. The way I understand it, Man, as a being, a living soul, mind and body, seeks immortality, eternal life. Rom 2:7
"For the wages of sin [is] death, but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Rom 6:23
"And this is the promise that he hath promised us, [even] eternal life." 1Jo 2:2 I understand a promise to be an announcement of something one intends to do, rather than something one has already done. Although it is true that the Father has given to us eternal life, (1John 5:11) and we have receive it by faith, that life is not a presently experienced reality.
---Josef on 9/10/11


Rhonda, you first said you use the Bible when you answered, and then said,
"GOD stated the soul does not live and the CONDITIONS are outlined in salvation"
Since you did not provide any Scripture to that quote, can you provide for us where God shows that the soul will die and does not live?
And those conditions you mentioned that are outlined in salvation?
Just talk is not good enough, you said,
"Yes? really? I provided the ONLY TRUTH using Holy Scripture"
Yet you didn't. What's up with that comment?
---Mark_V. on 9/10/11


Rhonda: Don't sugar coat it, just come straight out with it.

While it is true that we may receive immortality in the future, with a few exceptions, no humans are currently immortal. Paul states that we "put on" immortality at the last trump (Jesus 2nd coming) (1 Cor 15:51-54) - indicating that we were not immortal beforehand. He even states in v. 51 that the dead are "asleep" - not floating about heaven as spooks. He echoes this same concept of the living and the dead (those wo are asleep) receiving eternal life at the same time in 1 Th 4:13-18.
---jerry6593 on 9/10/11


Immortal, as in pre-existent? absolutely not. But immortal as in never stop existing? yes.
*****

Yes? really? I provided the ONLY TRUTH using Holy Scripture ...the Apostles were not confused with "blending idea's" seeing false ministers TEACH this LIE yet REJECT the very scripture I shared

GOD stated the soul does not live and the CONDITIONS are outlined in salvation

you just stated "yes" no scripture no proof just your misguided "yes"

I prefer every word from Holy Scripture Luke 4:4 not mens perverted ideas about Gods Holy Word

pagan immortality is still a lie no matter what is implied through "yes"
---Rhonda on 9/9/11


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Matthew 10:28 "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul:
but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
The soul then is immortal till the day God says it is not.
---Nana on 9/9/11
KEY WORD HERE are IN HELL, and even so the soul still dies
---Francis on 9/9/11


Rhonda and Josef,

As usual, there is much confusion concerning the body, soul and spirit.

Jesus and the apostles made it VERY clear that there is a distinction between spirit and body, stop trying to blend them.

The immortality spoken of in 1Corinthians 15 is PHYSICAL immortality. We do not have that yet. We must put it on. But He has breathed the breath of life into us.

Immortal, as in pre-existent? absolutely not. But immortal as in never stop existing? yes.

I agree with Blogger9211 that soul and spirit are not interchangeable.
---James_L on 9/9/11


"I the soul die it is NOT IMMORTAL"
---Francis on 9/9/11
Matthew 10:28 "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul:
but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
The soul then is immortal till the day God says it is not.
---Nana on 9/9/11


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