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Bush Or Obama The Bad Guys

Who is more at fault, our current government which overspends, or our last one which cut taxes without thinking who'd pay for its expenses?

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 ---James on 9/11/11
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You seem to have this mentality that people bear no responsibility for where they are in life, that everyone is just a victim of circumstance. That is what irresponsible people say.
--Jed on 9/21/11
Wow. I never said that. Again you totally distort what I wrote then accuse me of being irresponsible. I challenge you to show where I wrote that or said anything even close to that. Saying that A should help B does not say that B has no responsibility. You are the one being irresponsible in what you say. You are guilty of that which you falsely accuse me. It is unbelievable how you distort so many things.
---Rocky on 9/21/11


Rocky, shame on you for lying. StrongAxe did say that it was the democrats that are for giving to the poor and needy while republicans just want to support killing and breaking things. So that is saying that republicans are not for giving to the poor.
---Jed on 9/21/11
No it is not. StrongAxe was talking about government programs, YOU applied it to personal giving, two totally different things, To argue they are the same is stupid. To reprove me for lying when I stated the truth and it is you that is wrong is pathetic, more so when your error is so obvious from your own words. You need to make sure you have your facts right before reproving someone.
---Rocky on 9/21/11


Also, it is not a sin to have a big house and be rich. I am not wealthy by any means, but I don't blame others because I don't have some things that others do.
---Jed on 9/21/11
I never said it was a sin to be rich, but that it is wrong to spend money on indulging oneself in luxury while people go hungry and otherwise are in need. Why don't you respond to the points I actually raise instead of distorting my words then disagreeing with the words you put in my mouth?
---Rocky on 9/21/11


Churches should handle social dutys....
Trav 9/21/11
That part I agree with. But since they are not, better to use government than to not help the needy. Why arent churches doing more? Why do rich waste so much on big houses and rich living? Where does it come from? ---Rocky on 9/21/11

Since Churches are not?? Let a befouled Anti-Christian government handle what I work so hard for? I pay, it's a bitter pill.

It is my earning. It is my heart and judgement to do right.
GODly government could operate this way...but, men promote amalgamation of all peoples/religions. You've agreed. Theirs and ours doesn't mesh. Neva will. There is only one way, one GOD. Not many ways, many GODs. Elder said it best. Tolerance....
---Trav on 9/21/11


Rocky, shame on you for lying. StrongAxe did say that it was the democrats that are for giving to the poor and needy while republicans just want to support killing and breaking things. So that is saying that republicans are not for giving to the poor. Also, it is not a sin to have a big house and be rich. I am not wealthy by any means, but I don't blame others because I don't have some things that others do. You seem to have this mentality that people bear no responsibility for where they are in life, that everyone is just a victim of circumstance. That is what irresponsible people say. People that live in reality accept responsibility for their own actions and the life that they've created.
---Jed on 9/21/11




Churches should handle social dutys....
Trav 9/21/11
That part I agree with. But since they are not, better to use government than to not help the needy. Why arent churches doing more? Why do rich waste so much on big houses and rich living? Why arent the churches condemning this more? Some say it is their money and they have a right to keep it. Where does it come from? Who made the Sun that provides power, the Earth that provides all resources, the air they choose to foul, the rain for the crops and food? Who says the top employees should be paid millions while the lowest a meager wage that in many cases won't support a family?
---Rocky on 9/21/11


Democrats are big on spending for social programs Republicans are big on military spending.
Which of these two philosophies more closely matches that of Jesus's sheep, which matches that of his goats?
---StrongAxe on 9/20/11

Think they are approaching equality in error.

demo's for promoting,passing bills and legislation killing embryo infants and abomination practices.
Repub's for not being against openly.
Democrat is modified socialism. Take forcefully from those who have and give to those who don't, or won't.
Churches should handle social dutys....they know who is in need or should. Churches are foul to core now too. Or of an unknown religion opposite the Only GOD. Or a confused mixture like hendoorocksus.
---Trav on 9/21/11


James, what things do you do to improve or to participate in your government? Do you voice any of your suggestions or concerns to your President or your congressmen? You could write them a letter including your phone number and a S.A.S.E.
---Eloy on 9/21/11


What on earth would make you think that just because republicans opose this kind of program that they are not giving to families in their own communities?
--Jed to StrongAxw on 9/20
StrongAxe never said that. Shame on you for implying he thinks that. This tactic of distortion is not proper discussion. But I will respond to the concept. The rich should give more to families in need, and as you give unto the least of them you give to Jesus. How do we know they are not giving enough look to the parable of the Pharisee and look around at the many mansions, expensive cars, and private jets of the rich. And the class composition of party affiliation is known.
---Rocky on 9/21/11


Jed:

I agree some lazy people take advantage of public assistance but many need it.

Jesus said we would have poor with us always - he did not use that as an excuse to not give, because some might abuse it.

I know quite many people on disability or food stamps or other public assistance, even some in their twenties/early thirties, but are either unable to work due to medical conditions, or try to find work but nobody will hire them.

I have one friend who donates blood twice a week just to bring in a few extra dollars so his kids are decently fed (meanwhile, he often went days without eating, so as not to deprive them of food).

These are people I would not classify as "lazy bums".
---StrongAxe on 9/21/11




StrongAxe, now your posts are all making sense to me. You really do believe that social programs like welfare actually help the naked, cold, and hungry. That's so sweet, but so naive. As a social worker, I have seen first hand how impossible it is for the truly needy and elderly to get the help they need when can physically no longer work because all the money is being sucked up by young 25 yr olds that are just plain lazy. What on earth would make you think that just because republicans opose this kind of program that they are not giving to families in their own communities? I think most republicans would fully back a program that actually helped people who truly can't help themselves rather that enableing and catering to young lazy bums.
---Jed on 9/20/11


Trav:

Good that you brought up Jesus's final judgment separating sheep from goats. Note particularly what his criterion is for separating them. His judgment was not based on theology or belief - only on action.

The good sheep fed the hungry, clothed the naked, etc. while the wicked goats did not.

Now look at the agendas of the political parties. Democrats are big on spending for social programs like welfare (that feed the hungry and clothe the naked), while Republicans are big on military spending (i.e. "breaking things and killing people" as Rush Limbaugh puts it) and cutting social programs.

Which of these two philosophies more closely matches that of Jesus's sheep, and which matches that of his goats?
---StrongAxe on 9/20/11


Eloy, like Trav says, your spiritual blindness is causing the country great political errors. ---Rocky on 9/19/11
--Trav quoting on 9/20/11

Trav is taking the quote out of context and distorting it for his own purposes. Please see the entire contents in my post of 9/19 that starts with "Your spiritual blindness is one of the continuing reasons this and these political errors increase."
---Rocky on 9/20/11


Eloy, like Trav says, your spiritual blindness is causing the country great political errors. ---Rocky on 9/19/11

Ha. Collectively you,him and the like. His vote + your vote + the rest of who call evil good and good evil....make up his worshippers.
Christians that discern him and girlie boy types acting as leaders, could/should vote em out.
But, alas there is no such thing as aggressive sheep. Just sheep. Some lost, some found. The goats have climbed and bleat on the hill.

Matthew 25:32
And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
---Trav on 9/20/11


Trav, "You generation of vipers, how can you all speak good things, when you are evil? ....---Eloy on 9/20/11

Exactly. Know a viper and his offspring the by hissing. Perfect scripture, by the way.
Heres another.
Eze36:2 Thus saith the Lord GOD, Because the enemy hath said against you, Aha, even the ancient high places are ours in possession:
9 For, behold, I am for you, and I will turn unto you, and ye shall be tilled and sown:
12 Yea, I will cause men to walk upon you, even my people Israel,they shall possess thee, thou shalt be their inheritance, thou shalt no more henceforth bereave them of men.
37 Thus saith the Lord GOD, I will yet for this be enquired of by the house of Israel, to do it for them...
---Trav on 9/20/11


The real bad guys (and gals) are the voters that keep choosing bad leaders. Polls show that for decades voters gave a very poor rating to Congress yet thought highly of their own Congressmen. If the Congressmen were all as good as their own electors thought, we should have had good laws. The backgrounds of both Bush and Obama lacked the experience and record of performance we should expect of the most important position in the world. Wouldn't you think we could find one of those among our millions of citizens?
---Rocky on 9/20/11


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Two years is a short time to fix a big problem though.
---shirley on 9/19/11

It seems to have been enough time to make it several times worse though.
---Jed on 9/19/11


Jed, Please do your homework. It costs millions of dollars to clean up devastation and mess and to pay for recovery, and he is spending necessary money to clean up the foregoing presidents nonpayments. Why do you think he turned over the military maneuvers over in the Middle East to NATO? Because we cannot afford it.
---Eloy on 9/19/11


Trav, "You generation of vipers, how can you all speak good things, when you are evil? For the mouth speaks from the fulness of the heart: A good person brings forward good things out of good treasure. And an evil person brings forward evil things out of evil treasure. Blessed be you all when that malign you, and will persecute and say all evil word against you, lying falsely, on account of me. Rejoice and raise high, that the bonus plenteous yours in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets, them be fore you."
---Eloy on 9/20/11


I would say both of them.One primarily caused it and the other didn't correct the problem.Two years is a short time to fix a big problem though.
---shirley on 9/19/11


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Rocky, I do not listen to conservative propoganda, I speak from experience. As a mental health professional, I see first hand how people on welfare and disability who do not work have flat screen TVs, nice stereo systems, eat the best food, have it better than my own family. I also see how many people are on disability for bogus mental health disorders that are more able minded and bodied than most people I know that have jobs.

Eloy, you keep saying that Obama inherited a mess he did not create. I guess that's why he has increased our debt to several times what it was when he took office. Already having spent more in less that 3 years than Bush did in 8.
---Jed on 9/19/11


shira3877:

Bush didn't "attack our enemies when they attacked us". He wanted to finish his dad's war. Al Qaeda attacked on 9/11. They were Saudi-trained operatives hiding in Afghanistan. So why did he invade IRAQ? He kept claiming they had WMD - based on intelligence HE KNEW BEFOREHAND was false, but he chose to follow them anyway, because it gave him the excuse he needed to prosecute a war that he would otherwise have had no legal or moral right to do.

As I had mentioned in another Obama-related post years ago: what is more important, the flag, or the truths it stands for? Would you rather follow a man who ignores the flag but upholds the constitution? or a man who wraps himself in the flag but spits on the constitution?
---StrongAxe on 9/19/11


he dealt with the enemy when they attack us One mistake Bush made was to trust Barney Frank.
--shira 9/19
Iraq never attacked us, did nothing to support those terrorists, and did not have weapons of mass destruction. Attacking them has now cost thousands of American lives, hundreds of thousands of Iraq lives, and hundreds of billions of dollars. Bushs trust was more misplaced with Cheney, Rumsfield, Rice, and Paulson, and not listening to those warning of the need for increased control of financial markets, particularly derivatives. But we should not have expected him to regulate the bankers that contributed so heavily to his campaign and provided his financial advisors.
---Rocky on 9/19/11


You're spiritual blindness is one of the continuing reasons this and these political errors increase.
--Trav to Eloy on 9/19
Eloy, like Trav says, your spiritual blindness is causing the country great political errors. You single-handedly are confounding Pres. Obama and Congress, preventing them from doing the right thing. If only you would learn to be more spiritually correct, like Trav, unemployment and poverty in this country might vanish and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq might be won You are personally stealing jobs from the economy and making millions of people miserable. Eloy, please repent and save America.
---Rocky on 9/19/11


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Elder, you are right. It is MY money, I earned it, I don't overspend and I am also on a budget. I was born in America and I am full bloom American who loves her country and military. Unlike some, I am proud of my country but not the present government. For anyone to suggest I be deported because of my view is so far down on the stupid ladder. My husband died for my freedoms as many other Americans have died. Pres Bush wasn't perfect but he dealt with the enemy when they attack us. He didn't bow to muslims leaders, disrespect our flag or our country. One mistake Bush made was to trust Barney Frank.
---shira3877 on 9/19/11


Jed, I was addressing the people who diss the good President.
---Eloy on 9/19/11

You're spiritual blindness is one of the continuing reasons this and these political errors increase.

Discerning Christians that do not call on GOD in alarm is the other.

Isaiah 5:20
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil, that put darkness for light, and light for darkness, that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Psalm 52:3
Thou lovest evil more than good, and lying rather than to speak righteousness. Selah.
---Trav on 9/19/11


"Obama but he also has been blocked by a conservative Congress which cares more making Obama look bad than helping the country."
Rocky
Oh yea? Where have you been for the last 3 years?
---Elder on 9/19/11


Jed, I was addressing the people who diss the good President. Barack Obama walked into a humongous mess: gigantic debt that he did not create, economic crisis where busineeses and banks and large were bankrupting, and large unemployment rate, and recovery from terrorist attacks murdering thousands of Amercans, large oil spills off the coast, hurricanes and flooding displacing people in Louisiana and the East Coast. In the face of all these mountains of problems, bad-mouthers criticizing him and disrespecting him because they dislike the color of his skin. I say, Give honor where honor is due, and if you don't like it here, then please leave our country because we do not need you here nor do we need your unappreciative disrespect.
---Eloy on 9/19/11


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...not taking money from someone to give to others. That is socialism.
--Jed 9/19
How many times do I need to tell you what "socialism" is. It is NOT what you say. Please go read a dictionary. And a "flat tax" refers to a flat or same tax rate. So you want to start taxing the poor about 25% of their income now? How abusrd.
---Rocky on 9/19/11


\\If I were President I would have all seditious bad-mouthers deported out of this country, and sent into the countries that hate Americans.\\

Criticizing the President, any elected official, or any public policy in general is NOT sedition.

in fact, under the First Amendment, it's protected speech.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/19/11


Majority of [people on welfare] are folks who have figured out they can have a more luxurious life living off other people then actually working a job.
--Jed
Another lie. People on welfare skrimp by on very little. Many are disabled and can't work or have several kids with no support from deadbeat dads and day care would cost as much as they can earn. You need to do little more reading from objective sites and not parrot back conservative propaganda and lies. I too am unhappy with Obama - he has not taken the right steps to deal with the crisis he INHERITED, but he also has been blocked by a conservative Congress which cares more making Obama look bad than helping the country.
---Rocky on 9/19/11


jeb

what about the exploitation of the workers. many work hard doing 3 or 4 jobs but they are paid the same.
then the CEOs get bonuses for the work they did not do. that is ALSO SOCIALISM.
is that what you call success for those CEOs?

I agree that there are lazy people who are on welfare but they are healthy.
---mike on 9/19/11


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Eloy, I don't hate this country, I love it. It's the current administration I hate. Obama does not define what America is, the people do. And the majority of people are agaist Obama and his ideals, not for him. I never said I'm unhappy here. I'm very happy with my life, thank you very much. I don't, however, have to sit around and act like everything is okay when it's not. You don't want to call it socialism, that's fine, call it what you want. Getting money from the government (taxpayers) for doing nothing at all is plain wrong, whatever you want to call it. That's what Obama has encouraged and enabled. Not just Obama, many democrats, but he's the ring leader of this circus right now.
---Jed on 9/19/11


Jed:

It is not Obama who is destroying this country. He's just trying to pick up the pieces of what Bush left us with, and leaving us with a long recession - RATHER than a 1929-style Great Depression which is what we would have had, if he hadn't taken severe steps.

Remember, Bush started his term with a surplus, and in 8 short years turned it into the biggest deficit in this nation's history. Plus he started two wars in the middle east that we're STILL suffering the fallout from, dumping billions on billions of dollars into them, while letting things at home (i.e. the economy) and abroad (i.e. US good will everywhere else) suffer for it. Also remember that the stimulus package was started under Bush.
---StrongAxe on 9/19/11


Eloy:

I agree that Obama is not the bad guy. However, no president has the right to deport people based on thier opinions. 9 years ago, anyone who merely criticized Bush or his ruinous war plans in Iraq or Afghanistan was called a traitor (or worse - some were detained indefinitely thanks to The "Patriot" Act).

The very same First Amendment that gives you the right to freely worship your God in them manner of your own choosing and to state your own opinions, also grants others the right to worship their gods, and to speak their minds, no matter how offensive you may personally find their speech.
---StrongAxe on 9/19/11


Eloy, you don't know what you're talking about. I help the needy more than you know. If you really think the majority of wel-fare recipients are needy, unable to help themselves then you are plain naive. The majority of them are folks who have figured out they can have a more luxurious life living off other people then actually working a job. And get one thing straight. Obama did not take down Bin-Laden, soldiers did, soldiers that were placed there by Bush. Giving credit to Obama is a disgrace to the soldiers that are actually fighting for this country, not trying to destroy it like Obama.
---Jed on 9/19/11


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The ungrateful american whom lifts no finger to assist the needy. And instead of praising the good President of the U.S.A. for distributing stimulus moneies to the people and taking down the infamous Bin Laden whom murdered over 3,000 Americans in 9/11/2001, he would rather sinfully make faults and bad mouth him. If your unhappy here, the door is open, and your free to leave. If I were President I would have all seditious bad-mouthers deported out of this country, and sent into the countries that hate Americans.
---Eloy on 9/19/11


Rocky, I was not suggesting a flat tax, but rather an equal percentage of income would be fair I think. And then taxes should be used for things that benefit everyone like roads, national security, etc, not taking money from someone to give to others. That is socialism, and it simply doesn't work, as proved in this country right now. What does work is holding each individual responsible for providing for their own family, rather than the government paying your bills with other people's money. That would lower the unemployment rate rather quickly. I see help wanted signs out at McDonalds everyday. Having only some people working while others don't and get the money, is slavery, is it not?
---Jed on 9/19/11


Jed, when you say Obama must really mean "HAVE a fair share" when he says "pay their fair share" is another gross distortion and bogus attack. Your definition that "pay fair share" means pay the same tax rate is just your interpretation. We have had a graduated income tax since the early 1900s. I am not aware of even a single Republican leader or candidate that supports the flat tax you use for comparison. And taking money from those that have and giving to those that do not again is not socialism. Why do you choose to exaggerate and distort Obama's position before attacking him, and use loaded words like "socialism"? That is dishonest.
---Rocky on 9/18/11


Obama's big thing, by his own declaration, has always been "shared sacrafice". That very concept is socialistic in itself.
--Jed 9/17
No it's not. When Obama uses the term "shared sacrifice" he is talking about paying for government, which has absolutely nothing to do with socialism which, again by definition, is government ownership of production. That was pointed out before, why keep repeating the error? The notions you state "that everyone deserves the same thing" or to that "the rich should keep giving till everyone is on the same level" likewise are not related to socialism and have never been espoused by Obama. Grossly distorting his statements then attacking him for your words is dishonest.
---Rocky on 9/18/11


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Obama's big thing, by his own declaration, has always been "shared sacrafice". That very concept is socialistic in itself. In capitolism, each individual is responsible for making his own way through hard work and good choices. This notion that the rich should keep giving to the poor until they are on the same level financially, or that everyone deserves the same things no matter what they have done in life, is simply socialistic, hands down.
---Jed on 9/17/11


Obama always says everyone should pay their "fair share". What he must really mean is that everyone should HAVE a fair share, which is completely different. If everyone paid their fair share, then the poor would be taxed at the same rates as the rich, which they are not. In fact, nearly 50% of American's pay no taxes at all, while the top 20% of wage earners pay 80% of all taxes collected. So if you can do math you'll see that many have to be paying MORE than their fair share already because 50% aren't paying at all. Taking money from someone and giving it to someone else who doesn't even work, through social programs, is plain socialism.
---Jed on 9/17/11


The difference is when I blow my money it is mine not someone elses. Plus, my household doesn't over spend. We have to live on a budget. Is it strange that I want my government to do the same?
Saying, "everyone does it" solves nothing.
---Elder on 9/16/11

Your the hammer Elder on that question.
Nice analogy.
Hey, remember this one speaking of hammers?
Judges 4:21
Then Jael Heber's wife took a nail of the tent, and took an hammer in her hand, and went softly unto him, and smote the nail into his temples, and fastened it into the ground: for he was fast asleep and weary. So he died.
---Trav on 9/16/11


"as Americans many of us have overspent with credit card purchases and wild speculations."
Scott1
The difference is when I blow my money it is mine not someone elses. Plus, my household doesn't over spend. We have to live on a budget. Is it strange that I want my government to do the same?
Saying, "everyone does it" solves nothing.
---Elder on 9/16/11


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jeb

that's what people say against him. I heard 1 christian say he is
anti military
anti american
anti everything.
---mike on 9/15/11


Rocky:

Don't forget that "a debtor losing his property to pay his debts to the debtee" is a very capitalist thing. You see big corporations dumping money into failing companies (either by loans or hostile buy-outs) and then taking them over all the time, and this is considered the epitome of capitalism. So how is it any different when the government does it?

This isn't the government coming in and socialistically saying "OK, we're taking you over for the Public Good" - they're doing it by purely capitalist means.
---StrongAxe on 9/15/11


Jed: First you dont responded to legitimate questions about your earlier post but instead you launch into a gross generalization that is a lie on the face most people do not call someone rascist, violent, or hater just for taking stand against Obamas policies. But when you mischaracterize his policies you are a liar. By definition, socialism is government ownership of the means of production. Please explain where Obama espoused not just socialism but radical socialism. The government did take over General Motors, to save the company which otherwise was bankrupt, not as a policy of taking over production. I will not condemn you for opposing Obama, but will say you are in grave error when you lie like you do.
---Rocky on 9/14/11


Jed: I agree with a lot of that, but I'm not sure about the rest. I don't see that the nation has gone against either democracy or God in the past year - it's a nation slowly turning away from God, yes, but the last three years are not something special, they are just a continuation.

My comment about Obama is almost anyone, in his position, would end up making mostly wrong decisions, as the decisions are so hard. He made wrong decisions, yes - but could we do any better?
---Peter on 9/14/11


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Mike, now the problem IS when you take a stand against Obama and his radical socialism, you are labeled as racist, violent, and a hater.
---Jed on 9/14/11


the problem WAS when you disagree with bush & his war you are labeled Weak, unpatriotic, unamerican, america hating citizen.
---mike on 9/14/11


Jed: What are the extreme evil turns taken against capitalism and Christianity over the last 3 years of which you speak? What specifically are you talking about when you say respect for God has decreased and what is the evidence? What specifically has Obama done to steer the loss of respect for God?
---Rocky on 9/14/11


Trav:

Please explain your comment: "We allowed these perversions in office." And especially the word "perversions".

And then please read:
Daniel 2:21 which says, "He (God) changes times and seasons, he sets up kings and deposes them. He gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to the discerning."

And then Romans 13:1 "Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God."

---Allan on 9/13/11


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Jed. Obama inherited the problems from the conservatives and they blocked his efforts to respond to the crisis. Bush stood idle while free trade exported of millions of jobs. Instead he championed Bushs wars, including one fostered by lies from his administration, that have cost over a $1 billion with much more to come for GI health care and benefits, while passing a large tax cut for the rich that further exacerbated the deficit. He ignored calls for increased regulation of the financial markets, the immediate cause of the financial crisis and recession further adding to the deficit. The recession requires increased government spending to boost demand but conservatives in Congress have prevented him from the providing the support required.
---Rocky on 9/13/11


Jed:

I suspect that you think that you are being very fair with your comments with regards to the President, but just humor me, and point out a few examples of how "..respect for God..." has declined since January 20, 2009 and how the president has caused the decline.
---Allan on 9/13/11


Peter, Obama has taken the worst crisis we've had in 70 years and escalated it to the worst crisis we've ever had in history. I can't believe the extreme turn our country has taken against democracy, capitolism, and christianity over the last 3 years. No matter how bad our fincancial situation has been in the past, at least we still had a respect for God overall, nothing like we see today, much to Obama's stearing.
---Jed on 9/13/11


//We are in a bit of a mess here!//

Thank God! If not, we would need no Savior.
---aka on 9/12/11

We are at fault. Christians. We are the government. We allowed these perversions in office. We say nothing. Stupid sheep. A judas goat leader.
Leadership weaker every election. We allow it. We say nothing collectively because of lukewarm P.C. girlie preachers who do not know scripture. We allow these too. Hosea 8:4
They have set up kings, but not by me: they have made princes, and I knew it not: of their silver and their gold have they made them idols, that they may be cut off.
Micah 3:1
And I said, Hear, I pray you, O heads of Jacob, and ye princes of the house of Israel, Is it not for you to know judgment?
---Trav on 9/13/11


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A cursory look at the prideful patterns of greed and obscenities of the last six decades should provide some hints to today's and tomorrow's woes.
---Allan on 9/13/11


We, Americans, have made the republicans vs democratic parties, liberal vs tea party, Obama vs Rep. challenger, higher taxes vs lower taxes, and other comparisons as the answer to all of our problems. When the true answer is God. So pray for Obama and other gov't officials because we are commanded to. Hopefully and with great confidence God will impart great wisdom on gov't officials.
---Scott1 on 9/13/11


//We are in a bit of a mess here!//

Thank God! If not, we would need no Savior.
---aka on 9/12/11


Both are at fault, certainly

I feel some sadness for Obama, though, as he got into office at an absolutely terrrible time

That doesn't meen he's been a good president, I just mean he's had a very hard job to do - get the country out of its biggest crisis in 70 years
---Peter on 9/12/11


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Rocky, I agree with you. It's easy to put the blame on the devil. Believers don't realize he is one person? He is not omnipresent, Omniscient, Omnipotent, he can only be in one place at a time. Imagine him going to billions of people? The Bible tells us sin is our responsibilty. I also heard that when people sin, they do it unwillingly. How can they commit sin unwillingly? Unless someone puts a gun to their heads. Eve said, "it was the devils fault" and Adam said it was "Eve's fault" I didn't hear what the devil said. I'm sure he blamed God. There is many evil spirits, but we sin because we want to sin at the moment we do, and later regret it. Unbelievers don't regret they sinned until the consequences of that sin comes.
---Mark_V. on 9/12/11


massive tax cuts & war spending from 2000-2008

plus bailout of banks

ENRON was the precurser
---mike on 9/12/11


Donna: I agree that greed is the root of many evils, although much of it comes from human nature and does not require the devil's active intervention. And I agree that our society is much too materialistc. But the greed of politicians, particularly with respect to their own careers, and their lack of true love and compassion for others, results in much bad legislation to the detriment of our country and citizens.
---Rocky on 9/12/11


It's the devil's fault and let me tell you why before you throw stones at me.

People don't want to believe and OBEY God's word. The bible tells us to owe no man anything. To pay our taxes which people in my family don't (except me and my one cousin).

It's the spirit of greed that is on this earth that tempts people to buy, buy and buy this and that and put it on credit cards and have no money to pay those cards off each month.

It's the devil's GREED that has got us into this mess. If you don't agree, then you must think it's God's greed and God is a GIVER, not a TAKER, and certainly not greedy with His blessings upon our lives (to those that Obey His word). Thanks for letting me vent about this subject...lol.
---Donna5535 on 9/12/11


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Bill - discussing public policy issues and what caused problems is not only accepted but required in a democracy, as is discussing who is responsible so as to remove the malfactors from office. The biggest problem our country has is with the voter who keeps returning poorly performing policitians to office. For years polls have shown people have a low opinion of Congress but a high opinion of their legislator, clearly a dichotomy only possible if most people are overestimating the abilities of their own elected representatives. Your recommendation is only appropriate when living under a Kingship as in times of old.
---Rocky on 9/11/11


and bushes was to blame Clinton, and Clinton blamed father bush who blamed... i think this is part of the political game, they have to blame, because nobody can win with a slogan "the other one did a hell of a job, i can't do better"
really in general Obama isn't worse then the former ones, if he'll be better History will tell, surely he will be remembered in history at least for one thing.
---andy3996 on 9/12/11


It is easy to blame the government about overspending and not being responsible with their money but as Americans many of us have overspent with credit card purchases and wild speculations.
---Scott1 on 9/12/11


The Bush (and previous) administrations overspent, too.
---Cluny on 9/11/11


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Really? Do you even have to ask? It's pretty obviously Obama hands down. You know his favorite thing to do is blame Bush.
---Jed on 9/11/11


The start of our decade long downfall was caused by conservatives and business interests that pushed through free trade laws that sapped our industrial strength and jobs and dismantled banking regulations protecting the economy. The primary blame goes to Bush who pushed through an unjust war while cutting taxes on the rich, plunging the budget into a huge deficit and overheating the economy. On his watch banking regulations were further weakened and no action taken to stem the tide of bad mortgages issued nor regulate the derivatives to resell them. Warnings were ignored. Further the focus on the war and deficient prevented the country from adequately addressing the real issues of education, health care, and poverty. (continued)
---Rocky on 9/11/11


Paul: Of course you are right, but the question was 'more at fault' not 'who IS at fault'
---James on 9/11/11


Truly both are at fault, and truly we need to find a way out - in a country with 'a government of the people for the people' we, the people, must help

But how do we help? Spend less government money, pay more, and in both cases, how?

We are in a bit of a mess here!
---Peter on 9/11/11


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Jude 8-9 > "Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries. Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, 'The Lord rebuke you!'"

"Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence." (1 Timothy 2:1-2)

So, most at fault could be us who have been just criticizing, instead of praying with hope "for".
---Bill_willa6989 on 9/11/11


Both Bush and Obama raised the national debt. Obama just raised it to a higher order of magnitude in a much shorter period.
---Blogger9211 on 9/11/11


According to your question both are at fault.

Paul
---paul on 9/11/11


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