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USA Under God's Judgment

How did God discipline Israel and is he doing the same thing with the United States today with fires and earthquakes and hurricanes? Is this God's discipline, his wrath or judgement?

Moderator - It's the same stuff that has been happening since the beginning of time. Nothing new under the sun.

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 ---Donna5535 on 9/14/11
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Kathr, lies continue to come out of your mouth each day. Your purpose is evil because lies do not come from the Spirit.
You should study before you open your mouth. Because what comes out of your mouth you cannot take back. A lie will always be a lie. And you are fill with them concerning doctrines, and what people never say or believe.
What you are suggesting is that all Israel will be saved, including those who don't have Christ. That somehow they have another way into the Kingdom of God.
Calvinism does not teach replacement theology, they teach Historism. If you had studied you would know. If someone who is a Calvinist believes in replacement theology it is because they believe it themselves but is not taught in Calvinism.
---Mark_V. on 9/22/11

aka, Don't confuse women today who stand up to their abusers as "vice versa".

CN has already lost membership over this issue.
---James on 9/22/11

Rocky, With your declaration of how much you research and study, you did not do such with The Watchman's Cry Web-site. Because Brother Leal most certainly does teach about GOD's Love as well as "the end times". You just have not reviewed all that he has said and reported. Foolishness to disregard GOD's true Prophets and Watchmen. Because it keeps one from truly preparing themselves before the LORD. And, Rocky, we ARE to fear GOD. It's not just "fear" in the sense of "honour and respect". It's also a real fear and DREAD of GOD's Might and Power to destroy both body and soul in HELL and in the LAKE OF FIRE that help's keep one, both, from sin and to repent of sin. The fear of GOD is the beginning of Knowledge.
---Gordon on 9/22/11

//And all men who verbaly abuse any women is depraved.//

boing fwip...and vice versa.

//Or please find 3 scriptures that say God will chose a Gentile Nation to help Him. //

still waiting on that.
---aka on 9/22/11

Gordon, THEN I want to apologize to you. I do want to say though that scripture has already told us this. I thought you were talking about NEW Prophesy concerning America.

Yes Gordon, it would appear many who profess Christianity today have gone the New Age route, mixing Christianity with all sorts of this and that.

THere's a great book called The Seduction of Christianity that deals with this very issue. I highly recomment it.
---kathr4453 on 9/22/11

What is the New Age Movement?
The New Age (NAM) movement has many sub-divisions, but it is generally a collection of Eastern-influenced metaphysical thought systems, a conglomeration of theologies, hopes, and expectations held together with an eclectic teaching of salvation.

Unfortunately for the NAM, the fear from which they want to be released might very well be the fear of damnation, and the conviction of sin.

Though the NAM is tolerant of almost any theological position, it is opposed to the "narrow-mindedness" of Christianity that teaches Jesus is the only way .

Rocky has already stated this is what he believes on another blog, and railes against me for saying Jesus is the ONLY WAY.
---kathr4453 on 9/22/11

Ephesians 5:6
Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

So YES, we are to WARN of God's WRATH TO COME.

You bet we are!
---kathr4453 on 9/22/11

Kathr4453, And there's part of the problem with your response to my comment(s). You treated (me) as if I was "singling out" America for GOD's Judgment, as if the rest of the World was not targeted. I never said that the rest of the World would not be judged. I EMPHASIZED that America will be judged, and I focused on that fact in my comment simply because, it WILL happen, and because it is being both IGNORED and DENIED by way too many people (that includes the Church who claims to follow GOD). So, your last comment only REITERATES what I said in the first place.
---Gordon on 9/22/11

we both know Rocky promotes Hunduism
kathr443 9/12/11
Please be clear kathr, I support the reading and understanding of Hinduism. And Buddhism (and other religions in general) and other areas of philosophy like ethics and epistemology, psychology and sociology, history, economics and political science, biology (including evolution) chemistry, physics, and other sciences, and many other things. So have fun and attack whatever other areas of learning you wish. The Christian church has a long, sad history of banning thought it does not agree with and burning books and heretics to control it. Your attack on learning is but a remnant of that and the fear of thinking. God gave us a brain and I think he meant us to use it.
---Rocky on 9/21/11

I believe we all can agree here that these disasters all around the world are more frequent and more severe than anything any of us have ever known in our life time.

I believe the whole world needs to wake up and smell the coffee, including America. Are we being singled out? NO!But I do believe we need to be very careful in thinking nothing really really bad can happen to us.

Once the rapture takes place, THEN Gods wrath will come. Remember, we His Church are saved from the wrath to come.

Do we need to warn the wicked? YES.

Jesus came to save souls, not nations.
---kathr4453 on 9/21/11

Rocky, Are the warnings about Hell and the Lake of Fire from false prophets or from GOD?
Godon 9/12/11
Believe what you wish. I merely pointed out the that "People who preach fear and the end of times like Nathan Leal RATHER than the love of God are not prophets and receive no word from God." And reported the FACT that for over a thousand years false prophets have been teaching that the end of times was IMMINENT. Since it did not come, they obviously were false. How do you differentiate the ones you espouse from those false prophets of the past? They have the same message. After all the Bible teaches there will be many false prophets.
---Rocky on 9/21/11

Well first MarkV, we both know Rocky promotes Hunduism, of which now you agree with? Are you defending TRUTH here or just playing games markV.

You always attack the Gospel message of salvation markv, NOT ME...God is watching and others are taking notes.

Oh but MarkV doesn't believe in a gospel message one can receive Chirist from does he, and it appears Rocky doesn't either.

OH so you both do have much in common.
---kathr4453 on 9/21/11

You said depravity was not possible, you are a good example of one who is depraved. It is possible. you are a witness to that.
---Mark_V. on 9/21/11

Is TOTAL Depravity possible? Yes I am a witness to total depravity:

Anyone who denies the Only Begotten son did not die and rise again is depraved.
Anyone who states the Holy Spirit and Jesus do not REALLY live in a believer is depraved.
Anyone who claims they are born again FIRST before salvation is depraved.
Anyone who bullies their wife into believing calvinism is depraved.

And all men who verbaly abuse any women is depraved.

The shoe fits your foot!
---kathr4453 on 9/21/11

For MarkV to go off on this wild tangent is rediculous. EVERYONE who has studied Calvinism KNOWS they teach replacement theology and openly admit they do. They do not believe in the fulfillment of the Promises God made with the Nation Israel, or the 1000 year reign. WHY? Because they believe in REPLACEMENT Theology, that the Church replaced the promiss to Israel.

And MarkV you have declared this openly over umpteen times here on CN, and now you want to deny it.

I honestly think you are either evil, retarded, or just plan ignorant.
---kathr4453 on 9/21/11

Kathr, you continue with your sin, and it will not go away. Now you accuse Rocky of,

" Gotta get those crystals out of your eyes, ears, and nose."

That is said because he didn't agree with you. You need to open your eyes and ears Kathr. And that can only come by the Father. You said depravity was not possible, you are a good example of one who is depraved. It is possible. you are a witness to that.
Is anyone forcing you to reject the Truth? Not one of us.
---Mark_V. on 9/21/11

Rocky, Are the warnings about Hell and the Lake of Fire from false prophets or from GOD? Do you really insist that it's not like GOD to send out Prophets to warn of Judgments to come? Have you not read the story of NOAH? Do you remember what happened in that story?? How GOD had Noah preach and warn everyday for 120 years about the coming Flood! GOD sent Noah to warn the people of the future great Flood that GOD HIMSELF would send to DESTROY THE SINFUL PEOPLE. What do you think HELL is?? A horrid place where SINFUL PEOPLE will go. The Lake of Fire is an even more horrendous place that the wicked will inhabit for ETERNITY. It is LIKE GOD to send Warnings and Judgments and people, like Prophets, to warn of coming Judgments. It's GOD's Mercy.
---Gordon on 9/21/11

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We know America stands behind Israel TODAY, but do we know for a fact we always will?
Where are we in scripture or end times?
---kathr4453 on 9/19/11

America stands,supports an Anti-Christ people that may not even be Judean. Hmmmm.

Scripturally ignorant leaders in Churches...assume they themselves know.

Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
Luke 19:27
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
---Trav on 9/21/11

MarkV, You, the heretic on line here deny that Jesus, God's only begotten son died for our sin. You deny John 3:16 in more ways than not. You also deny God raised up His only begotten Son.

Rocky, you ask WHY? What on earth do you believe one is saved from? And thosse who reject Jesus Christ, what do you believe will happen to them?

Jesus cam to save sinners, not spread a New Age, peace love dove message. Gotta get those crystals out of your eyes, ears, and nose.
---kathr4453 on 9/21/11

Rocky, you are right, no one knows when Christ will return, or even if we're living in the end times. It's pretty irrelevant too if you think about it. I always tell people, I have no idea when the world is going to end, but I know that one day within this century, YOUR world will end, and when it does, you better not be caught dead without Jesus Christ.
---Jed on 9/21/11

John 12:31
Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

And "replacement theology" has always been the teaching of Christianity--not just of the Roman Catholic Church or Calvinism--until the human novelty of dispensationalism.

Dispensationalists, btw, are actually a small minority of Christians. It's an aberrant teaching.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/21/11

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Rocky, who are you talking to?
--Jed on 9/21/11
Jed. My apologies. Gordon, I meant to address you with my post on 9/19/11. Please see that post.
---Rocky on 9/21/11

Well, we do need to make it clear that preaching God's love would mean nothing if we don't also preach God's wrath to come.
---Rocky on 9/21/11

Kathr4453, Read EPHESIANS 4:11-12. GOD has, indeed, set up Prophets in the Church today to help minister to the Church. GOD is going to bring Judgment and HE forwarns of said Judgments through HIS holy Prophets. The Book of DANIEL speaks of Visions of the Last Days given to Daniel. He was told to seal up part of these Visions until the time of the End. At that time will the Visions and Revelations be given and revealed. They weren't put in the Scriptures because those Visions did not pertain to any generation except the END-Time generation. Believe the BIBLE that says GOD has Prophets in the Church. It's HIS Written Word, Kathr, not mine, nor of HIS Prophet Elisabeth Elijah. It's HIS Word!
---Gordon on 9/21/11

Kathr, why do you have to continue to speak lies about others? Did you hear me say what you said I am?

"Donna, Markv believes in Replacement Theology just as the RCC and Reformed Theology(Calvinism) does."

Where did you hear me say such things? You, a heretic, who does not believe in the Eternal Son of God, judging others of things they do not say. When God reveals the Truth to you who is the Eternal Son of God, then maybe some of your words will have some value. For nothing you say, is coming from the Holy Spirit. Because the Spirit does not lie like you do. You always speak from the flesh, and flesh and blood cannot reveal the Truth to you, only the Father in Heaven.
---Mark_V. on 9/21/11

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Donna5535, there is no special judgment for the the United States then in any other country. We are lucky that something much greater hasn't happen here. God is not judging countries as a whole, but what individuals do in their lives in those countries. And to be honest, the whole world is in sin. It is nothing new under the sun as the moderator said. Nations rise and nations fall. In the Old Testament God judged the whole nations, woman and children died at the order of God. All with a holy purpose.
---Mark_V. on 9/21/11

Rocky, what are you talking about? Why are you adressing me on this thread? I have not even posted on this thread or talked about the end-times on this blog site at all. Who are you talking to?
---Jed on 9/21/11

Well, we do need to make it clear that preaching God's love would mean nothing if we don't also preach God's wrath to come.

For God so loved the world He gave His only Begotten Son, that who so ever believes in Him will not perish ( go to hell or face God's wrath to come) but will be saved from the wrath to come through Jesus Christ and have eternal life being part of teh first resurrection.

We all know too the earth is going to melt away and New Heaven/ Earth is going to be. But the 1000 years prior the 1000 year kindom reign will be set up in Jerusalem, not Washington or Utah.
---kathr4453 on 9/21/11

It is prophesied in detail in Matthew 24 that because of sin, all these things will increase upon the earth, up to the climax of that great and dreadful day of the Lord, when Christ Almighty returns.
---Eloy on 9/20/11

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\\Other nations, too, have exalted themselves and fallen (Rome, ancient China, Britain, Germany, etc).\\

I don't know where you got this idea about China. She's existed for hundreds, if not thousands, of years.

In case you've not noticed, she seems to be doing quite well for herself financially.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/20/11

Jed, I looked at the "Wathcman's Cry" website. Peole who preach fear and the end of times like Nathan Leal rather than the love of God are not prophets and receive no word from God. No man knows when the end of times will come. Read your scripture instead of false prophets, and read about false prophets. False prophets have been teaching that it's the end of times for over 1,000 years.
---Rocky on 9/19/11

Gordon, I know you listen to teh false prophet Elisabeth Elijah Nikomia, correct?

Gordon there are no prophets today giving any NEW prophesy. WE re-iterate what has already been spoken in scripture. It's a done deal. Go to Revelation and read all about it.

Or please find 3 scriptures that say God will chose a Gentile Nation to help Him.
---kathr4453 on 9/19/11

Kathr4453, GOD playing the hypocrite with America? America's SIN is why HE's bringing Judgment! GOD set America up to be a BLESSING unto Himself and to Israel, firstly. HE set up America as a Nation with Religious Freedom, where HE, the ONE and True GOD, could be worshipped and served in Freedom. For, in England, it was not so. Our forefathers got away from the oppressive British Monarchy, and was lead by GOD to this New World continent to live in Freedom. But, NOW....America has turned her back on the GOD Who birthed her, and has prostituted herself with the gods of money, illicit sex, material gain and more lusts. With the whorish Babylonian churches leading the way. With no collective repentence in sight. Therefore is Judgment come.
---Gordon on 9/19/11

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God always works for good. sometimes we have to go through the valley to grow. Israel was punished by being sent to Bablyon but God also worked there to get rid of many false practices.
---Scott1 on 9/19/11

Rocky and Kathr4453, GOD's Judgments on America is being revealed by HIS modern Prophets. GOD does nothing of this nature without sending HIS Prophets beforehand to warn the people. EPHESIANS 4:11-12 and AMOS 3:7 speak of GOD's Prophets and that, in HIS Church. People, both inside and outside the Church, can scoff, mock and be skeptical all they want. I'm not losing sleep over that, for each and every one of us will be held accountable to deal with the Information we have been given. Elisabeth Elijah Nikomia, Jonathan Hansen, Mr. Nathan Leal are a few who have been given Messages of Warning sent directly from GOD concerning this Issue. And, GOD delt with Israel in a similar fashion. The USA is not above Judgment.
---Gordon on 9/19/11

kathr4453, America was set up by GOD as a great Nation for Religious Freedom ---Gordon on 9/17/11

The Irony in that statement is this. Because Solomon married so many women from other nations and they brought their gods in to worship in Israel, THAT is why God divided the Kingdom. He told Solomon He would not do it until after he died, but it was SOLOMONS SIN that the nation of Israel was divided and scattered.

And now God is playing the hypocrite with America?

Was Paul/Peter etc and the original church looking for religious freedom?
---kathr4453 on 9/19/11

Gordon, I know people hate hearing the facts, but not all came here for religious freedom. And religious freedom is the separation of Church and state.

And when Mass. was set up as a Theocracy with the Puriitans it was most horrible. They murdered one another, and it appears many suffered the same horrible persecution they did before, except at their own hands. The Elect murdering the Elect.

We know America stands behind Israel TODAY, but do we know for a fact we always will?
Where are we in scripture or end times?
---kathr4453 on 9/19/11

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God punished and disciplined the Jews, perfectly, in the wilderness, and still the parent generation died in the wilderness, "Except for Caleb the son of Jephunneh and Joshua the son of Nun" (Numbers 14:26-38). They even cried for forgiveness, got their lives spared, then still got themselves killed for sinning.

So . . . punishment and threats and warnings can't work, by themselves. We need how God changes our character, first, so then we do obey Him.

So . . . even if things against "America" are from God, they can't work just because people want to save their selfish lives. "'He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.'" (John 12:25)
---Bill_willa6989 on 9/17/11

Aka, thank you for correcting that statement. I'm glad you wanted to delete it. I go over my answers a few times and have sent some things that were wrong and after i sent them, I regretted it. Love you brother, Peace to you.
---Mark_V. on 9/17/11

Gordon, let me ask you, WHEN exactly did America partner with Israel? Certainly not in the 1600's. The Puritans believed themselves/America to be the New Israel and God's NEW Chosen people. Maybe that in itself is the SIN of the arrogance of America.

I don't see anywhere in our Constitution about Israel one bit.

The arrogance of America is this, MY LIBERTY is not in the Constituton, but Christ Himself. My Forefathers are not George, John ane Thomas, but Araham Isaac and Jacob. AND my freedon is in Christ death and resurrection, not in the red white and blue.

The Revised Standard version:

We have a cross revised and New,
Redressed in Red White and Blue,
Sigmund FRAUD hangs on there too!

---kathr4453 on 9/17/11

Gordon, when asked for the for your beliefs about Gods special considerations for America, by myself and again by kathi, all you do is provide more of your own logic and words while adding to the list of Gods action and your own judgments. Was the source of your beliefs about Gods actions, that America was set up and is being judged and warned by God? You cite no scripture, is this personal revelation?
---Rocky on 9/17/11

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Gordon: I agree with you.

Other nations, too, have exalted themselves and fallen (Rome, ancient China, Britain, Germany, etc).

Looks like it's America's time now....... hopefully, it's discipline and not simply wrath!
---Peter on 9/17/11

kathr4453, America was set up by GOD as a great Nation for Religious Freedom ---Gordon on 9/17/11

Gordon, if thats the case, why are so many "Americans" against other religions, or no religion at all?

Starting back with Plymoth colony there was religious discrimination in this country (try being Catholic or other than a "Puritan" in 1650 Plymoth Bay).

I think the founding fathers heartfelt belief was that Americans should be able to worship as they see fit, however, there were people then, just as now, that would like to control that.
---NurseRobert on 9/17/11

//"There can be no doubt that Hurricanes, Floods and Tornadoes are occurring more frequently." More frequently than when?//

More frequently than I was a kid...a lot in strange patterns.

various kinds of animals are just ending up dead, and there always is some lame explanation to accompany. could it be those crazy clouds that we have never seen before 2000. How do they get so straight and long?
---aka on 9/17/11

Gordon #2, in reading the OT, you will see God sets up kings and brings them down for His own purposes. However those Nations He exalted to destroy one nation, He then destroyed them as well.

We also must realize all this is working together for end times. AMERICA teh Great Globelization of teh world,, one world ecomony, etc, started in NY in the 1600. What do you think the twin towers stood for? And speaking of these Towers, if you look at the history of NY, it was this continual competition of building higher and taller than the next.

You really must watch Rick Burns New York , and then decide. Power and economical wealth in America was never of God.
---kathr4453 on 9/18/11

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kathr4453, America was set up by GOD as a great Nation for Religious Freedom and to be an ally to Israel. America has been a PROSPEROUS and POWERFUL Nation. Other countries emulate America, for better or for worse. As the old saying goes: The bigger they are the harder they fall. Those who humble themselves shall be exalted, and those who exalt themselves shall be brought down low. America has exalted herself in sinful lust and greed. She is being brought to the dust in Judgment. As great as America has been ("great" as in "VALUABLE"), she has NOW become "great" in her own eyes, in ARROGANCE and PRIDE, as she wallows in putrid, sinful filth. Being an example and influence of filth to the watching World.
---Gordon on 9/17/11

//Aka, I believe what you said about God is a big mistake,
" God will not go where He is not welcome"//

I knew I would draw some criticism for this statement. it is certainly not central to what i was really trying to say. i just forgot to delete it.

//And HAARP? Would you like to explain why you believe the conspiracy theorists about this? // I would. The first recorded conspiracy was in the Garden of Eden and it has not ended on Satan's end.
---aka on 9/17/11

Rocky, You have Internet access, look up HAARP for yourself. The Anti-Christ's kingdom will be the established New World Order. When the stage is finally set, then the Anti-Christ will step onto center stage. GOD has set up America to be a Torch on a Hill. An Ally to Israel. A Refuge for GOD's Saints. As a Country where there is real Religious Freedom to worship, to testify of, and to serve the ONE and True GOD, without being imprisoned and tortured. (But that will soon happen here, for we are losing our Freedoms). Because of her vile SINS of pride, murder, lust, greed and rebellion against GOD, HE will bring America down to her knees in shame before the World. For she has ceased to be a Light. But is, instead a bad influence to the World.
---Gordon on 9/17/11

okay I think I see what's happening here...somehow my responses got turned into an arguement over a piece of land...that's NOT what I am implying at all.

LAND has NOTHING to do with what I'm trying to get across.

So never mind because there isn't enough space to type in my response. Forget it, I know what I mean, but it's too hard to sum it up in 85 words or less....thanks anyway.
---Donna5535 on 9/16/11

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So are you asking me if those who preach another Gospel as Paul rebuked those in Galatia when the Judiazers came in and taught that the church today is the New Israel and the promises to Israel are now transferred to the Church called Replacement /Dominion Theology, if they are Christians? (You did know this is where this teaching originally came from). No, Paul said any other Gospel was accursed. He said they were enemies of the Cross. Oh yea, they all may wear crosses around their neck, and Confess Jesus, but that doesnt prove anything. Again Phil 3 states clearly AGAIN, they are enemies of the Cross.
Can an enemy of the cross be a Christian in the true sense?
---kathr4453 on 9/16/11

kathr the vast majority of proffesing is
Catholic and the 10% calvinists added to this makes at a great majority, unless you donot believe these two denominations confess Christ? (not a calvinist neither a Roman Catholic)
---andy3996 on 9/16/11

Be it Judgment or Blessing. And, America is being judged and WARNED at the same time by GOD, and will continue to be for a time. All for the whole on-looking World to see.
---Gordon on 9/16/11

Gordon why would the whole wide world be looking to America? Who exalted America above any other?

Isaiah 51:6
Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be for ever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished.
---kathr4453 on 9/16/11

Donna, Markv believes in Replacement Theology just as the RCC and Reformed Theology(Calvinism) does. However teh vast Majority of Professing Christians believe teh Church is distinct from the Nation Israel, and the Promises to teh Church are being blessed in Heavenly Places IN CHRIST. That the Church is seated now with Christ in Heavenly Places waiting for teh return of Christ to bring us home. That Heaven os our Home.

Paul tells us in Phil 3, those who mind earthly things are enemies of the Cross, and that we wait for Christ from above.

I believe in the 2nd here, as I do not believe in Replacement Theology.

It would be good for you to study both and then make a spiritual decision, based on what God REVEALS to you.
---kathr4453 on 9/16/11

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Gordon wrote:"There can be no doubt that Hurricanes, Floods and Tornadoes are occurring more frequently." More frequently than when? Please provide authoritative support for your statement. And HAARP? Would you like to explain why you believe the conspiracy theorists about this? And your statement "America is being judged and WARNED" would you please explain your support for implying that America is being singled out by God for special consideration.
---Rocky on 9/16/11

Sorry Moderator, but, your comment was way off. GOD is in Control. That means that HE either directly initiates an action, causes it Himself. Or, HE allows it to happen for His Purpose. That Purpose definitely includes Judgments. There can be no doubt that Hurricanes, Floods and Tornadoes are occurring more frequently. We can argue that they are a direct result of a bad ecology, for Nature is taking it's toll. And, also the HAARP (man-made weather control system) is being utilized. No matter, all of the above is used by GOD for HIS Purpose. Be it Judgment or Blessing. And, America is being judged and WARNED at the same time by GOD, and will continue to be for a time. All for the whole on-looking World to see.
---Gordon on 9/16/11

Only those who are found in God's covenant of Grace will be saved, and these are "For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth" - unconditional election.

However Paul did mentioned, "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits, that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in." Romans 11:25

There will come a time according to God's will, when the last Gentile is saved, that He will turn His mercy to the nation of Israel and multitudes of Jews will be saved.
---christan on 9/16/11

Aka, I believe what you said about God is a big mistake,
" God will not go where He is not welcome"
It is a comment many make but I didn't think you would.
How can that be possible? It is opposite of what God says about Himself in the Word of God. No creature has power to preserve itself. That is why God is called the Preserver of "Man and beast" (Ps.36:6). He "Upholdeth all things by the word of His power" (Heb. 1:3). Truly He "holdeth our soul in life" (Psa. 66:9). As some others you identified God as yielding to man, what he wants and want he doesn't want. None want God. We would still be lost if He did not welcomed Himself into our lives when we didn't want Him.
---Mark_V. on 9/16/11

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God disciplined Israel as an example for mankind - lessons especially for Spiritual Israel the True Believers of Christ Jesus

Christ stated the times of sorrow would begin like birth ...slow pains increasing until the final day ...Christ also stated all these things (wars, natural disasters etc) would happen in MANY places ...lest we forget Japan's disaster this year

God's discipline will come upon the WHOLE WORLD not just USA as it is now

majority of prophecy has still not happened - whether mankind has few or a dozen years when prophecy begins to unfold (last Roman Empire 10 countries in europe uniting as one) then the end will be much closer as prophecy will rapidly unfold from that point on
---Rhonda on 9/16/11

//I think God is the one shaking the earth, not the devil.// i think neither. if you drop two big bombs on non-strategic cities that sit on a major fault line, guess what will happen sooner or later. Pearl Harbor was the 9/11 of the 40s...a reason to shake the world. Lookup HAARP.

Notice Jesus did not say 'God' or 'Satan', He said "God" or "money". There are a few that directly worship Satan, there are more who serve Satan unknowingly thru false religion, and there are most that have no clue that they are serving Satan by serving money. There is profit in disaster, wars, and disarray. God will not go where He is not welcome, Satan will influence those, who like to shake the world. reference Garden of Eden.
---aka on 9/15/11

Moderator: "It's the same stuff that has been happening since the beginning of time. Nothing new under the sun."

Sure, earthquakes have always happened. So do other natural disasters, but it is written that these things will happen in intensity and in frequency.

It is also written that people in the end times will scoff.
---Steveng on 9/15/11

Donna5535: "...he tests the hearts of those whom he loves."

And all men's hearts will be tested as we journey through the tribulation causing many, even christians, to fall away from the faith. So put on the full armor of Gad so that you will not be swayed to the tribulations around you.
---Steveng on 9/15/11

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Donna5535, I am so proud of you. You gave a great answer. I remember when you first started, and you said you just wanted to learn, and so far you have learned a lot. You are right, everyone is under a covenant, either as law breakers or law keepers, we believers are keepers through Christ. All that stuff about Israel is past, they rejected the Lord, and the covenants towards all people are binding no matter what country you live in. The very reason the lost are not saved, whether they are from Israel or from any other country. They need faith in Christ on His Works on the Cross to substitute for their inability to keep the covenant of works. Right now they are law breakers, and so condemn for not keeping the law. Very good answer you gave.
---Mark_V. on 9/15/11

I think that perhaps (please note the "perhaps") after God created the universe, world and man he put it mostly on autopilot. In his wisdom, he created the natural laws that would bring about the all the events needed to provide an environment for us to grow and be tested. He does not need to tinker with every little thing, or with anything. It makes more sense to me than that he spends his time micro-managing the lives of billions of people and how their actions, and actions of the Earth and climate and various accidents, affect one another. Maybe he occasionally sends a little Earthquake here and a little blessing there, or some inspiration for a key discovery. Or maybe he doesn't.
---Rocky on 9/15/11

Donna, what exactly are the borders and boundaries of the specific piece of land given to Israel and where is this found?
---Rocky on 9/15/11

Israel was a people in a covenant relationship with God.
---Cluny on 9/15/11

Believe like you a little Cluny. And believe GOD a lot more.

Tares will be gathered with wheat.

Sun and Moon are still ordinances. Israel is 12 more than just Judah and scattered or you call GOD a liar. Which you wouldn't do....knowingly.
Jer 31:36
If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
Malachi 3:7
Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?
---Trav on 9/15/11

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Donna5535, God gave a SPECIFIC piece of land to Israel. He has let us know exactly where those borders and boundries are. And it wasn't in the USA. That Land still belongs to God, and one day ISRAEL will be back on the Land and be blessed. Isaiah 14 assures us of this. Just because there are Christians in China, England, Germany etc, doesn't mean any covenant was made via any Land. THE CHURCH was never promised Land through the Covenant made with Abraham. We have inherited the Promise of ETERNAL LIFE.
---kathr4453 on 9/15/11

ah, but God DOES have a covenant with us, a Gentile who accepts and believes upon Jesus His Son and is Baptized with his Holy Spirit...I am a Gentile, but I am of the seed of Abraham since I believed upon Jesus and accepted the sacrifice He made for my sins and live a life under God's laws, rule, and according to HIS will for my life, not my own will.

So don't you consider Gentile Christians living in the USA a part of Abraham's covenant now? Haven't we been grafted in?
---Donna5535 on 9/15/11

That's exactly correct Francis, God never made a covenant with a Gentile Nation. And America is a Democracy, not Theocracy. When God pronounced Judgement upon Israel as a NATION, it was because the whole Nation Israel was God's.

As their punishment He drove them off the Land, He didn't destroy them in the land or even destroy the land. The punishment was having their Promised land taken away.

God never promised anyone here any LAND. We stole it remember!
---kathr4453 on 9/15/11

There is NO COVENANT between USA and GOD
---Francis on 9/15/11

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God's judgement is always on the wicked. We have had many "1st" this year. America, pay attention....why take a chance? One thing for sure, America has turned her back on God but you will always have skeptics who don't believe God is judgeing America's sin.
---shira3877 on 9/15/11

All nations and persons are under God's judgement still. I cannot say specifically that the natural disasters happening in the USA are a result of God's judgement. I think that region of the earth had been prone to such natural occurences before immigrants scrambled into the place.
---Adetunji on 9/15/11

Cluny, I really don't know the answer to that because the bible tells us: He disciplines those whom he loves. But then there's Job..he was righteous and was being tested.

We live in a corrupted world and are subject to hurricanes, earthquakes and God said in Jeremiah and Isaiah that he will shake EVERYTHING that can be shaken including individual's faith...he tests the hearts of those whom he loves. have a great point. But I think God is the one shaking the earth, not the devil. I think God is in control of the weather, the earth, etc., I don't think He's allowing the devil to do the shaking. Just my measley thoughts.
---Donna5535 on 9/15/11

Donna it is interesting how some believe prosperity is God's Blessing. Just recall the Letter written to teh Laeodecians who were prosperious, however wretched in God's eyes.

Some were taught through false teachers that material blesings mean you are in favor with God. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

People here have put their trust in their wealth, and we do see through these natural disasters many are losing all they have. I HOPE what they have In Christ is far more important. And many just may learn from this, where and who really was their God. It's called being TESTED, not cursed.

But NO we are not Israel and no did we inherit Her blessings or her curses.
---kathr4453 on 9/15/11

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Israel was a people in a covenant relationship with God.

The USA is NOT! God's present people in a covenant relationship with Him is the Church (howsoever one defines "church"), not any nation. Remember Jesus said, "My Kingdom is NOT of this world."

People frequently confuse the USA with old Israel.

Furthermore, remember what Jesus said on this matter in Luke 13, opening verses.

To put it another way, Donna, were your house destroyed in a fire, earthquake, or hurricane, would God be judging you?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/15/11

Donna5535, what's happening in the States is nothing to what's happening all over the world. People dying by the hundreds or thousands of lack of food or water. We are blessed here.
Scripture tells us that all events have a divinely appointed place and purpose, that God's providence is universal and thus secures the fulfillment of His plan. Many reject this providence of God but nevertheless He controls nature, animals, nations, and the acts of individual men. Nothing can happen without Him knowing, or allowing it to happen. This is the God of Scripture. If one things happened without Him knowing it or permitting it, God would not be God, and that thing that happen would have more power then God.
---Mark_V. on 9/15/11

did you ever notice that in the OT, the prophets said, "Thus saith Lord..."?

did you ever notice that Jesus did not say, said "Thus saith the Lord..."? He said, "There will be..." there will be.

Couldn't the originator of turbulence be attributed elsewhere? Couldn't the Lord be allowing instead of originating?
---aka on 9/14/11

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