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Jesus Always God

Did Jesus Christ even for a moment cease to be God?

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 ---kathr4453 on 9/16/11
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"Phil 2:6 & 7- I think that says it all." CraigA (1)

"He did not think to snatch at [harpagmos] equality with God". NEB.

"He did not think that by force [harpagmos] he should try to become equal with God". TEV and GNB.

Harpagmos means "plunder". It comes from the source word harpazo which means "to seize ... catch away, pluck, take (by force)." Strong's Exhaustive Concordance: #725 & 726, Abingdon Press, 1974

"Harpagmos, from [harpazo], the act of seizing or the thing seized." "Harpazo ... to seize, catch up, snatch away." The New American Standard Concordance of the Bible #725 & #726, Holman Bible Publ., 1981.
---scott on 9/26/11


"Phil 2:6 & 7- I think that says it all." CraigA (2)

The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, 1986, Zondervan:

"Although the Son of God in his pre-existent being was in the form of God, he resisted the temptation to be equal with God (Phil. 2:6). In his earthly existence he was obedient to God, even unto death on the cross (Phil. 2:8)...

...After the completion of his work on earth he has indeed been raised to the right hand of God (Eph. 1:20, 1 Pet. 3:22) .... But he is still not made equal to God. Although completely co-ordinated with God, he remains subordinate to him (cf. 1 Cor. 15:28)." - p. 80, vol. 2.
---scott on 9/26/11


"Sounds like Jesus is God just as the Father is God. (John 17:10, 21)" Mark_Eaton on 9/23/11

The obvious flaw in this conclusion is that Christ (in prayer to himself?) compares this Father and Son 'oneness' with the 'oneness' that his disciples would/should have. If this identifies the Father and the Son as two persons of the same God then the disciples are (or could be) God as well.

Additionally (in vs 3) Jesus refers to His Father as "the only true God", excluding himself from the classification of 'God'. This is no small dilemma for Trinitarians.

Even after his death and resurrection Jesus continued to refer to his Father as his God. (John 20:17, Rev 3:12).
---scott on 9/25/11


"I have never in my life seen a translation that says "The Word was a god." Jed

"And a God (i.e. a Divine Being) was the Word".
Concise Commentary On The Holy Bible, Robert Young.

"And the Word was a god".
The NT of Our Lord Jesus Christ, Reijnier Rooleeuw.

"And the Word was a god".
The NT in an Improved Version.

"The Word was a God".
The NT In Greek and English, Abner Kneeland.

"And was a god".
Zeitschrift fur die Newtestameutlich Wissencraft, , J.N. Jannaris.

"And (a) God was the word".
The Coptic Version of the New Testament, George William Horner.
---scott on 9/25/11


JED promotes a polytheist understanding of God in his trinitarian rendering of John 1:1.

JED is taught to believe John 1:1 says, 'In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, and the Word was God.'

There are 2 'God's' according to JED. The 'God with whom the Word was with' AND 'the Word was God'.

So not only does JED believe 'the Word was God', but also 'the Word was with God'. Two God's- JED (and trinitarianism) promote polytheism.
---David8318 on 9/23/11

Christians believe there is only one 'God' but three divine Persons, JW's bible reads "a god"? Wouldn't that mean also two God's?
---Ruben on 9/23/11




Cliff, your problem arises because you try to apply man-created mathematics to God who is eternal spirit, who has no mass.

Maybe I can use an analogy. Take a computer chip and weigh it on a micro balance before any information has been placed on it. Then add the information and reweigh and you will find the weight has not changed, no matter how sophisticated the micro balance is.

It does not matter how large the chip is or how much information is upon it there is absolutely no change in weight. It could now have 1000 terabytes of information but the weight is exactly the same.

But a massive amount of real information is there, isn't it? How would you explain that to someone who has never seen a computer?
---Warwick on 9/23/11


Warwick,, Your math is as bad as Leon's
If I'm filled with spirit I'm now ?% flesh and ?%spirit making me a 100% person!!
You can't dazzle me with your fancy foot work!
50% God and 50% man is a "Hybrid"
A Hybrid died as a ransom for man????
Paul says Jesus "emptied" Himself (in heaven) before being born human ,if He empied himself He was not a spirit!
---1st_cliff on 9/23/11


David, I have check every translation I can find, NIV, KJV, NKJV, American KJV, New Living, English Standard, American Standard, New American Standard, International Standard, God's Word, Bible in Basic English, Douay-Rheims Bible, Darby, English Revised, Websters Translation, and Young's Literal Translation.

They all say "The Word was God". I have never in my life seen a translation that says "The Word was a god." What translation do you use? And why do you assume that it is the correct translation when all others are consistent with each other?
---Jed on 9/23/11


JED- I wasn't telling you what you believe. Neither was I attacking you. Where did you get this idea from?

I was simply highlighting the fact that the rendering of John 1:1 you use promotes polytheism. Why do you assume I attack you for telling the truth? It's not the author of the Bible who is in error, rather the translator of the translation you use is.

The rendering of John 1:1 you use as I pointed out in my previous post has 2 'God's'. The God whom 'the Word was with' AND 'the Word was God'.

A correct non-polytheist/trinitarian rendering will read, 'the Word was with God, and the Word was a god'. The correct non-polytheist rendering only has one 'God'.
---David8318 on 9/23/11


The pagan trinity is not from the Bible. It originated from pagan ancient Egypt. Donna- you are being duped by a false spirit.
---David8318 on 9/23/11

Please look with me at these verses:

John 17:10 "and all things that are Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I have been glorified in them."

John 17:21 "that they may all be one, even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me"

Let me understand these verses with you.

The Father is IN Jesus, and Jesus is IN the Father. ALL that is Jesus' is the Father's and ALL that is the Father's is Jesus'.

Sounds like Jesus is God just as the Father is God.
---Mark_Eaton on 9/23/11




David, where do you get off telling people what I believe? I added no comentary to the Holy scriptures I posted. All I did is quoted the Bible verbatim, not my rendition. If you disagree agree with the scripture then I suggest you take it up with the author, not me. I choose to believe the scriptures. Why do you show hostility and attack me for sharing 3 verses from the Bible and gospel? If you disagree with the scripture then it is obviously you who are in error, not me.
---Jed on 9/23/11


"Great verse...Jesus prayed in John 17..." kathr4453

Agreed. And in verse 3 of chapter 17 Jesus prayed to his father:

"Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent."
---scott on 9/23/11


James: My analysis is you're a fella who loves to pick fights. Find a mirror. Your battle is with the person you'll encounter there.

I meant what I said & Scripture supports it whether you believe it or not. Unwind James! :)
---Leon on 9/22/11


Donna5535- so where is 'trinity' found in the Bible? You're so adamant it's there- show me and everyone else. You use the same old trinitarian tactics of misquoting and twisting scriptures out of context.

'I and the Father are one'- Jo.10:30. Non-pagan trinity understanding is Jesus is at 'one' with his Father in purpose, as he discusses in John chapter 10. And where is the HolySpirit spoken of in John 10:30? You preach a binity or trinity?

Jesus said, 'the Father is greater than I am'- John 14:28.

Paul also said the resurrected Jesus is 'subject' to God- 1 Cor.15:28.

The pagan trinity is not from the Bible. It originated from pagan ancient Egypt. Donna- you are being duped by a false spirit.
---David8318 on 9/23/11


JED promotes a polytheist understanding of God in his trinitarian rendering of John 1:1.

JED is taught to believe John 1:1 says, 'In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, and the Word was God.'

There are 2 'God's' according to JED. The 'God with whom the Word was with' AND 'the Word was God'.

So not only does JED believe 'the Word was God', but also 'the Word was with God'. Two God's- JED (and trinitarianism) promote polytheism.
---David8318 on 9/23/11


1st_cliff: I would like to remind you that God/Jesus Christ/Holy Spirit are far above our human level (reasoning, comprehension). How much can an ANT talk correctly about human beings? Only what God has revealed of Himself do we know of Him [Deut.29:29]. We cannot say that God cannot do that which He foretold Israel that He will do & has done in Jesus Christ.
---Adetunji on 9/23/11


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In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He existed in the beginning with God. Through him all things were made, without him nothing was made that has been made. -John 1:1-3
---Jed on 9/22/11


Leon,

scripture never says the "Son" became flesh. John 1:1 says the WORD became flesh.

This entire debate stems from a misunderstanding of what it meant to be a son.

Also, what do you mean by "100% God and 100% man simulatneously" ? Could you clarify so that there is no ambiguity?

Is Jesus' spirit human? Is His flesh God? What do you mean, exactly?
---James_L on 9/22/11


Isaiah 42:8
I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.


Here is a great verse.

Jesus prayed in John 17, Glorify me with the Glory I had with you before the world was.
---kathr4453 on 9/22/11


Enjoy the journey Cliff & I hope you wind up where you really want to be.
---Leon on 9/22/11


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Cliff, those who trust God's word know He is not man, (flesh), but spirit-John 4:24.

When Christ (God therefore spirit) came into the world, he said: ".....a body (of flesh) you prepared for me," Hebrews 10:5.

Hebrews ch. 1 and 2 tell us Jesus is both fully God (spirit) and "made like his brothers in every way" vs. 17, fully man.

Acts 2:4 "All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit."

In your thinking they must have become more than 100% because they were 100% before the Holy Spirit "filled" them!

However trusting God's word we know He is 100% spirit which can fill a man so that he is now 100% flesh, and 100% spirit, who has no flesh. Too easy for God!
---Warwick on 9/22/11


Even a 5th grader knows that nothing can be greater than 100% of itself!

not even 200% of itself?
---Francis on 9/22/11


Leon, I like "your"math!
Even a 5th grader knows that nothing can be greater than 100% of itself!
Now you're going to say "I'm 100%father,100% grandfather,100% son"etc.. Problem with that is when the son dies so does the father and grandfather!!!
That's as bad as saying our immortal God died (for us)???
Either He died or He's not immortal...take your pick!
Of course, in mythology there are no rules!
---1st_cliff on 9/22/11


Well, if we have already gotten connected with wrong people who are putting others down, it is impossible to admit this unless God shows us.

John clearly does say, "Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God." (1 John 4:15) And Jesus is very clear > "'For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will. For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father.'" (in John 5:21-23)

So, God wants us to honor Jesus, just as we honor our Father. Also, ones say that only God judges. But "the Father judges no one," Jesus says.
---Bill_willa6989 on 9/22/11


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//It is the pagan trinity doctrine ---David8318 on 9/21/11//

David8318 this "pagan trinity doctrine" that you speak of is blasphemy on your part and you are in SERIOUS error. Why? Glad you asked!

Because the TRINITY is NOT a PAGAN belief at all, it's in the bible.

Jesus said, "I and the Father are one." "If you've seen me, you've seen the Father."

If it weren't for this Trinity doctrine (notice I'm not saying it's pagan) I wouldn't have gotten saved and spirit-filled. I was raised believing in the Trinity and Thank God I was. It made me believe that God, Jesus and Holy Spirit are one in three. All are God, but not all are the Son of God. See my point?
---Donna5535 on 9/22/11


StrongAxe: I think you did not grasp the point in my comment from the amended quotation of the Bible by David8318. You quoted 2 Bible passages, you did well by not changing ..Jesus..IS TO " Jesus ..WAS". David quoted John20:31 but changed the "is" in it to "was".
---Adetunji on 9/22/11


If you really understood Scripture Cliff you would know the Son of God (the Word) became flesh (Jesus, Emmanuel) & lived amongst us. He was 100% God & 100% man simultaneously.

God does what He wills to do. He (Jesus, God's Son) chose to die for our sins. In other words, GOD DIED FOR US. The Son of God is God Cliff!

It hasn't a thing to do with soulish human logic of which you foolishly trust. But, it has everything to do with the Logos (second person in the GODhead Trinity).

Do the math! Sorry, it's obvious you can't, i.e., choose not to do it right. :/
---Leon on 9/21/11


Phil 2

6)Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7)But made himself of no
reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men
:

8)And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9)Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name

I think that says it all. Jesus Christ is God in the flesh.
---CraigA on 9/21/11


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Mark V, Please don't tell me what I believe (your statement is not true)
Answer me this, for the 30 years that Jesus was learning the carpenter trade from Joseph, Who was minding the store????
---1st_cliff on 9/21/11


Did Jesus Christ even for a moment cease to be God?----Blog question

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not, for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren,say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, your Father, to my God, your God.
21Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
22When he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them, whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God,that believing ye might have life.........through his name.

(Ext for Mars)Mark.
---Trav on 9/21/11


David8318 said,The teaching that Jesus Christ was not 'flesh' is antichrist (1 John 4:2). Jesus Christ said 'God is a Spirit' (Jo.4:24). But trinitarians teach 'Christ never ceased to be God', who is 'a Spirit'. Thus, the pagan trinity doctrine is antichrist

David..i guess that ice floating in a glass of water couldn't be water because it is a solid.

There was never a time when He was not.
---JIM on 9/21/11


Almighty God has never been without His HolySpirit. Therefore, God could not have been the 'Anointed One'.

Jesus was/is 'the Christ', the 'Anointed One' of God, anointed with HS, seen coming down 'like a dove' from Jehovah God his Father at his baptism.

The teaching that Jesus Christ was not 'flesh' is antichrist (1 John 4:2). Jesus Christ said 'God is a Spirit' (Jo.4:24). But trinitarians teach 'Christ never ceased to be God', who is 'a Spirit'. Thus, the pagan trinity doctrine is antichrist.

Jesus did exist 'in God's form' BEFORE he came to earth (Ph.2:6). This doesn't mean Jesus was God anymore than a human son existing in his father's form (as a human) makes the son and the father the same person and both the same age.
---David8318 on 9/21/11


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Are you saying that Jesus is NOT God?

What are you saying?
---Mark_Eaton on 9/21/11


I posted Christ's words.

Matt 5:48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Matt 10:32
Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 11:27
All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father, neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
Matthew 26:42
He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.
---Trav on 9/21/11


GOD is all powerful. Faith was Christ's lesson.
---Trav on 9/20/11

Are you saying that Jesus is NOT God?

Are you saying that the powers demonstrated by Jesus were not His, but given to Him by God only for the time needed?

Are you saying that the power Jesus had is equivalent to the power demonstrated by David, Moses, Ezekiel?

Are you saying that if we pray to God, that He will give us these powers and allow us to walk on water? Did Peter pray to God to walk on water, or did Peter ask Jesus?

What are you saying?
---Mark_Eaton on 9/21/11


Adetunji:

If Jesus IS the Christ and the Son of God, it is also true that he WAS the Christ and the Son of God. Using WAS here is a weaker statement (since it says nothing about the present) but it is still, nevertheless, true.

This is not "anti-Christ". The Bible has two definitions of antichrist:
1 John 2:22: a liar who denies Jesus is the Christ
1 John 4:3 and 2 John 1:7: a spirit that confesses not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh
(In Greek, I believe that "not" can apply either to what goes before or what goes after, so these could also mean "...that confesses hat Jesus Christ is not come in the flesh")

I don't see either of these here.
---StrongAxe on 9/21/11


Adetunji- If you read carefully, I quote the part that reads 'the Christ, the Son of God' precisely for the reasons you are critical of.

The blog question (Did Jesus Christ even for a moment cease to be God?) is in the past tense- "did". Thus my post and my question is also past tense- 'Who was Jesus Christ?'

The Bible doesn't say 'Jesus was the Christ'. I never said it did say this. Please try to be a more accurate in your reading of posts before rushing to judgment.

It is the pagan trinity doctrine that is antichrist because to teach God is Christ negates 'Christ' or 'Anointed One'. God cannot be 'Anointed' (or a 'Christ') because God is Almighty and has never been without HolySpirit.
---David8318 on 9/21/11


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David8318: Examine the doctrines that your sect has taught you very well. You wrote, "Jesus was 'the Christ, the Son of God'- John 20:31"-9/19/11. They are anti-christ doctrines. The passage you quoted reads, "...Jesus IS the Christ, the Son of God..." AKJV. Which Bible did you quote from?
---Adetunji on 9/21/11


1Cliff, you do not believe that the Son of God came from God. You believe He didn't come but that He was born a Son.
"This is My beloved Son" for "if we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater, for this is the witness of God, which He has testified of His Son, He that thus believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself" ( 1 John 5:9,10).
If Jesus Christ was just a men, His witness of God would not be greater, but God says His Son's witness is greater then men's.
And if you do not have this inward witness, and for want to listen to carnal reason, need we wonder that you make God a liar?
---Mark_V. on 9/21/11


God in His Divine nature cannot be tempted. Nor does He tempt anyone. Jesus in His human nature was tempted yet without sin. His humanity had to be like all of our with the exception that His human nature was without sin. All descendants of Adam have inherited the fall of Adam. Original sin. Jesus never did. All who argue against Christ been God do so by attacking His human nature that had been promised to come and did come in the person of Jesus.
---Mark_V. on 9/20/11


Leon, **God loved us that much to die for us** God is immortal and can't die! What kind of logic is that Leon???

If you read the scriptires you'll see that it was "His Son" that died, not Him!
Even on the cross He called to the Father!
In my bible 1+1=2
You got some new kind of math??
---1st_cliff on 9/20/11


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Is Jesus God?

'Then God said, "Let us make man in our image.."'

Some claim God uses "us" the plural of majesty. Not so, such plural did not exist until late in OT times.

"Did not one God create us?" Malachi 2:10.

"For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities, all things were created by him and for him" Colossians 1:16

Does this verse say only Jesus is Creator? Not at all as He is eternal (vs. 17) an inseparable part of the "us" of Genesis I:26.

Jesus says He is one with the Father (John 10:30) which He is by eternal right not adoption.
---Warwick on 9/20/11


Did Jesus not calm the wind and the waves? He was all-powerful.
---Mark_Eaton on 9/19/11


GOD is all powerful. Faith was Christ's lesson.
Did he pray? Did he ask GOD's permission? He demostrated with ultimate faith. His predecessors had some too. Abraham,Moses,Jacob,David,Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, etc,etc have faith?

Luke 18:42
.... thy faith hath saved thee.
Luke 17:19
.... thy faith hath made thee whole.
Luke 8:48
.... thy faith hath made thee whole, go in peace.
Matthew 26:53
Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
---Trav on 9/20/11


Paul,
You never did answer my question (re Hypostatic Union). Is there a reason for that?
---Bruce5656 on 9/20/11


The Word says God CAN NOT BE TEMPTED with evil.
Paul
---paul on 9/19/11

yes agree but God/Jesus did not succome to temptation which is sin. Jesus was tempted in the desert. The orginial argument was that because Jesus was tempted Jesus could not be God. Which is of course false.
Jesus was tempted with flesh (jump off building) tempted with power (rule all of the nations) tempted with self-reliance (turn rocks into bread)
---Scott1 on 9/20/11


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Only God (Jesus the perfect, spotless, sinless sacrifice) could've died for our sins. That's the whole point (Genesis-Revelation). There was no other way. Yes, God loved us that much to die for us! God never stops being God!!!
---Leon on 9/20/11


Mark_Eaton on 9/19/11 Your disagreement is noted. Thank you for taking the time to read my post and to share your views concerning it. I will take your words into consideration as I continue my studies.
---josef on 9/20/11


There was never a moment in eternity that God was without His Word, Wisdom, Power, Life, Truth, or Way, nor was there ever a time that God was not the Father.
Mat 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Mal 3:6 For I [am] the LORD, I change not, therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
---micha9344 on 9/19/11


Scott
The Word says God CAN NOT BE TEMPTED with evil.
Paul
---paul on 9/19/11


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Also, if this is merely a temporal power of discipline, rather than a divine power of forgiveness, then what did he mean when he said Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven?
*****

Apostles worshiped in TRUTH and SPIRIT

bind by truth - Gods Truth is His Holy Word and the WORD IS Christ Jesus

binding has nothing to do with sin that is VERY easily understood because SIN is BREAKING Gods Holy Laws

"temporal power of discipline" is unsupported by Holy Scripture and seems to have a philosophical babbling ring to it ...no mortal man can "forgive" another mortals sins
---Rhonda on 9/19/11


"God" as omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent, , yes.
"God" as the DIvine tangible expression of YHVH, no.
---josef on 9/18/11

I must disagree with the first part of your post if you are saying Jesus stopped having these attributes.

How did Jesus know that peter was going to betray Him? How did Jesus know Lazarus had died when it was only reported he was sick? He was all-knowing.

Was Jesus not speaking with both Moses and Elijah and the disciples on the mount when He was transfigured? He was all-present.

Did Jesus not walk on the water? Did not Jesus make the loaves and fishes feed 5000? Did Jesus not calm the wind and the waves? He was all-powerful.
---Mark_Eaton on 9/19/11


Did Jesus Christ even for a moment cease to be God?

This question can be asked- Did the 'Anointed One' (Christ) cease to be God?

Did God begin to be the 'Anointed One'?

Was God the 'Anointed One'? If yes- Who anointed God? Why was it necessary for God to be anointed with Holy Spirit? Many trinitarians struggle with this conundrum- even on this site.

Does the Bible say God was the anointed one? Does the Bible say Christ was God? Does the Bible say Jesus is God? The belief 'Christ never ceased being God' is only in the minds of trinitarians.

Who was Jesus? ANS: Jesus was 'the Christ, the Son of God'- John 20:31.
---David8318 on 9/19/11


StrongAxe on 9/19/11
bind on earth bind in heaven same as who sin you remit...

When a church takes a stance to discipline a member for sins commited, that stance is also honoured by God in heaevn, and when a church takes a stance to return that member to fellowship that is also honoured in heaven ( bound in heaven/ bound in earth, loosed in earth loosed in heaven)

So when a member is discipled for his / her sin, that church stance is also honoured in heaven.

But the church or apostle cannot forgive sin, it is hoped that during that time of discipline that the member repents and seeks God's forgiveness

Again best example 1 corithians 5, 2 coninthians 2
---Francis on 9/19/11


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Francis:

You said: God never gave them the ability to forgive sin

Perhaps there is some part of Jesus's very plain words from John 20:23 that is unclear? By saying that this is merely the power to discipline, you are reading between the lines, also, in all societies and social groups, superiors have the power and authority to discipline their subordinates. Jesus would not have needed to tell them this.

Also, if this is merely a temporal power of discipline, rather than a divine power of forgiveness, then what did he mean when he said Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven?
---StrongAxe on 9/19/11


---StrongAxe on 9/17/11
God never gave them the ability to forgive sin

See 1 corithians 5 and 2 corithians 2

This is a God given right to discipline people for sins commited not to forgive sins

also see Acts 8:20-23
It is the ability to hold people responsible for their sins not to forgive sins

1 Timothy 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

Matthew 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
---Francis on 9/19/11


Nope, not at all.
---Eloy on 9/19/11


1st cliff: Your feelings cannot change what God has done for us in Jesus Christ. God is the greatest in humility & meekness. Your feeling that HE cannot stand Mary changing His diapers has being injected into your mind from the antichrist. The Lord Jesus told the Jews listening to Him then (John 3:13) that as HE was talking to them HE is equally in Heaven.
---Adetunji on 9/19/11


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Rhonda
//HE could not have been tempted to sin.//

Jesus as God was tempted. Temptation is not a sin. We are tempted daily but we choose not to sin though we fail sometimes.
---Scott1 on 9/19/11


The problem with that scenario is trying to imagine Mary changing "baby God's diapers" teaching Him to talk and walk etc..let's get real!
Would the Almighty Creator allow mere humans to spit on Him whip Him and any way humiliate the God of the universe...NOT on your life!!!! Jesus ,His Son, volunteered ,much kike the security who would take a bullet for the President!
---1st_cliff on 9/18/11


Francis:

Jesus told his apostles in John 20:23
"Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them, and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained."

Since the Apostles now had the authority to forgive sins, does that mean they were God too?

"ability to forgive sins equals divinity" is a can of worms you probably don't want to open.

Besides, this was a theological argument made by the Pharisees, and as we know, using their theology as a basis for Christian theology is probably not a terribly sound idea.
---StrongAxe on 9/17/11


Christ was GOD in the flesh

Christ was not "a god" in the flesh otherwise HE could not have been tempted to sin and salvation IN Christ would be a LIE

If Satan was successful in tempting Christ many FAIL to realize that Christ would have DIED and NEVER been resurrected to ETERNAL LIFE

Christ cried out on the cross to GOD asking why he had forsaken Him because Christ was going to experience DEATH and be separated from The Father IN DEATH

sadly counterfeit christianity teaches Christ never "really" died and reject HIS resurrection from the dead and the AWESOME POWER OF GOD essentially rejecting their own

If Christ were a "god" in the flesh mankind has no savior
---Rhonda on 9/17/11


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To say that Jesus ever ceased to be God (or was ever not God) is to say that God is mutable.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/18/11


"Did Jesus Christ even for a moment cease to be God?"
"God" as omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent, , yes.
"God" as the DIvine tangible expression of YHVH, no.
---josef on 9/18/11


YAHUSHUA (JESUS) never did cease to be God. He did set aside His Throne temporarily to humble Himself to be as a Man. And, to obey the Father's every Direction. This all done by the filling of the Holy Spirit of WISDOM. Once He completed His Mission, in Victory, He returned to His Throne at the Right Hand of His Father YAHUVEH.
---Gordon on 9/17/11


PROOF THAT JESUS IS/ WAS GOD:
Mark 2:5 Jesus said unto the sick of the palsy thy sins be forgiven thee.
Mark 2:7 who can forgive sins but God only?

John 10:33 because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God

John 8:58 Before Abraham was, I am. Then took they up stones to cast at him:

Matthew 4:10 Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him ONLY shalt thou serve.

Matthew 8:2 there came a leper and worshipped him,

SUMMARY:
1: Jesus forgave sins which only God can do.
2: He made himself equal to God in the eyes of ALL THE PEOPLE: it was not basphemy!
3: He established his existance as THE I AM even before Abraham was born.
4: He receiced WORSHIP which is reserved for GOD only
---Francis on 9/17/11


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"Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God." (1 John 4:15) It does not say whoever confesses that Jesus is God, but that "Jesus is the Son of God". So, I confess that "Jesus is the Son of God". God bless you!
---Bill_willa6989 on 9/17/11


No.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/16/11


Candice I thought you had got away from the JW cult but you haven't.
It is time that you threw away those little liar books and study the Bible. You have been in one cult after another and you are still confused as to what Scripture teaches and who Jesus is.
You must reject 1/2 of the Bible to say Jesus is not God.
God the Father called Him God. If you can't see that then you had better ask yourself who forgave your sin!
---Elder on 9/16/11


Scott,

Evasive again.

According to Scott's theological masters, The Watchtower, Revelation 5:13 actually means this: Blessing and honour and glory and power be to grandfather God who sits on the throne, and to father god, the Lamb, for ever and ever.

So, everyone, when you read Father in the Scriptures, think Grandfather, and when reading Son, think Father. Got that?!!
---Marc on 9/16/11


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How can God be Father from eternity if there was no other eternal Being to relate to?

The Watchtower has to have God BECOME Father only when he made the angel Michael (aka Jesus)? This is totally pagan!

The Watchtower's pseudo-solution: ''The second Adam has become a life-giving spirit. In this capacity he can fulfil Isaiah's prophecy and become the 'Eternal Father'. In such a way the heavenly Father of Jesus will become the heavenly GRANDFATHER of the restored human family.'' (Worldwide Security Under the 'Prince of Peace', 1986, p. 169.)

Grandfather? Maybe we can expect a great-great-grandfather God, just like the Mormons, one day?

Jesus must be God and Son from eternity.
---Marc on 9/16/11


The eternal Word became a man to save men (Jn 1,3). He did not give up his Godly nature but laid it aside (Phil 2). He was born, lived and died a man. (I Tim. 3:16) A perfect man that could die for the sins of the world. (I John 2:2)
As for his ministry, Jesus did what he did, knew what he knew and taught what he taught as a man empowered by the Holy Spirit. (Luke 4:18, Acts 1:2, Luke 4:1 etc) That is the only way he could be truly representative of the human race - the second Adam.

1 Timothy 3:16, "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."
---Bruce5656 on 9/16/11


Candice,
"Jesus is NOT God"

Who is it that was:

Manifest in the flesh,
justified in the Spirit
seen of angels
preached unto the Gentiles
believed on in the world
received up into glory?

Mystery though it might be, the answer is GOD.

1 Timothy 3:16
"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh,
justified in the Spirit
seen of angels
preached unto the Gentiles
believed on in the world
received up into glory."
---Bruce5656 on 9/16/11


How many ways can it be asked?

Mt 9:6 "But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins" --then He said to the paralytic, "Arise, take up your bed, and go to your house."
7 And he arose and departed to his house.
8 Now when the multitudes saw it, they marveled and glorified God, who had given such power to men.

And yes He was the Son from the beginning.
Matt 8:29 declares the demons knew Him as Son who were once in Heaven with Him before.

Paul
---paul on 9/16/11


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I think this is a trick question, but I'll take a shot at answering it anyway.

Jesus said of Himself, before Abraham was, I AM. Jesus always existed.

Jesus is God. Jesus Himself said if you've seen me you've seen the Father...Jesus and God are one (that's per Jesus in the Gospel of John).

Jesus NEVER for a moment ceased to be God. Unless this is a trick question and you're the only one who has the right answer? Could that be?
---Donna5535 on 9/16/11


Candice......Who can forgive sins but God.
---JIM on 9/16/11


Jesus never stopped being God.

Accroding to Phil 2,
He emptied himself or laid down some of His Godly attributes, most likely His "glory".

However, He did not lay them all down.

Jesus still had the "all knowing" attribute when He knew that Lazarus had passed away before He journeyed to them. He also knew about all the men in the life of the woman at the well.

Jesus still had the "all powerful" attribute when He healed the Centurion servant from afar. And dont forget that Jesus walked on water.

Jesus had the "all present" attribute when He was transfigured on the mount. Jesus also had the ability to disappear within a crowd even though it did not seem possible.
---Mark_Eaton on 9/16/11


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