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Where Do Fake Christians Go

What if a person believes upon Jesus, quotes scripture yet lives a life of fornication and sin...did they lose their salvation or will they go to heaven since they DO believe in Jesus? Is it enough to just believe in Him?

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 ---Donna5535 on 9/26/11
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Jerry //Now you know full well that SDAs are among the very few who believe that people from all denominations will be in heaven, ... blab blab blab...

unconvincing!!!!!

One characteristic of Sabbaterian cults is that their literature is often contradictory. It is simply too easy to see that from what has been posted on this forum.
---lee1538 on 9/30/11


Rhonda //seeing how you reject Holy Scripture and GODS TRUTH by twisting spinning most of Gods Word I can now clearly see why spreading LIES with simpleton generalizations about those who simply OBEY GOD ...

Obviously you are very limited in your understanding of God's word as not everything in Scripture is applicable to our Christian walk.

Would you insist that I marry my deceased brothers wife to bear children on his behalf (see Matthew 22:24f)?

You Old Testament freaks have yet to understand that the Christian is under the New Covenant and not the Old.

Hebrews 8:13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
---lee1538 on 9/30/11


\\Romans 8:17 says we are heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ.\\
Paul

No it doesn't, Paul. It says we are heirs "IF" we suffer with Him. Both you and Mark V left out that conditional element that is in scripture

\\You cant teach that people can do any of theses acts of the flesh mentioned in the passage and still be eligible to be an heir when scripture plainly says you cant.\\
Paul

I agree, Paul. The inheritance is conditional.

But your mistake is when you believe the inheritance is synonymous with going to heaven.

We are assured of heaven if we believe the gospel, regardless of how we act.

We stand eligible for the inheritance only if we persevere in Godliness.
---James_L on 9/30/11


//The idea that christians are doomed to commit sin is not biblical.

Unconvincing!!!!!

Romans 7:14-15 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin. I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate.

The major problem with Adventism as well as other sabbaterian groups is their faulty belief one can achieve a state of sinlessness while in the flesh and thus merit salvation.

And they believe they can do that by obedience to the law, even laws that are not even applicable to the Christain walk.

Such is the plight of the children of Hagar from Mt. Sinai where God gave Israel the ten commandments.
---lee1538 on 9/30/11


In the long run, it will be up to the Lord to make the final judgement as to rather this person is a Christian or not. Personally, if I was a friend of this person I would talk with them in a very NON-judgemental way about this matter and see why they are doing this. It could be it's just a matter of spiritual ignorance that what they are doing is a sin. Just make sure you have scripture, in the proper context, to back you up. If you don't it's just your opinion verses their opinion.
---wivv on 9/30/11




No one says Christians have licence to do wrong. But nor do we see anyone able to PERFECTLY keep the law in the flesh.
---Haz27 on 9/30
Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name [was] Job, and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
Job 1:22 In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.

The idea that christians are doomed to commit sin is not biblical
We are called to be OVERCOMERS

1 Peter 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation,

1 Peter 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy, for I am holy.

you assume that others sin
---FRANCIS on 9/30/11


Haz 2: Here Paul in (v.24-27) is speaking of his personal self-control.
It has nothing whatsoever to do with inheritance or gifts given to believers after they die.
---Mark_V. on 9/30/11

I think James was pointing out a scripture to me. Whether he was or wasn't...it caught my attention.
It's not enough to exercise.... Make sure you are not shadow boxing... Trav.

Sharpen my dull ole sword James anytime. With Blessings on ya.

Proverbs 27:17
Iron sharpeneth iron, so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.
---Trav on 9/30/11


Rhonda, Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them:
for this is the law and the prophets.

Thou shalt love the Lord thy God
This is the first and great commandment.

The second, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
"On these two commandments"
Hang all the law and the prophets.

Now Rhonda this may sound stupid.
For us to love each other is one thing.
But, for us to love each other, as he has loved us!

This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
Rhonda, would I give my life for you?
I believe, I have! Peace!
---TheSeg on 9/30/11


Rhonda:
No one says Christians have licence to do wrong. But nor do we see anyone able to PERFECTLY keep the law in the flesh.
King David's adultery/murder is an example of how we don't profit from doing wrong.

James 2:10 says, if under the law, to offend in ONE point, you're guilty of ALL.
Hence the cross that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us Rom 8:4.

As 1John5:5 says "Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who BELIEVES that Jesus is the Son of God"

Our own efforts at keeping the law CANT add/improve on this.

My concern is you're thinking Christians can PERFECTLY keep the law in the flesh or there's some minimum standard of law keeping for our salvation.
---Haz27 on 9/30/11


lee1538 (aka leej, maryg, leeonia, et al): "All possess the basic faulty doctrinal system with the dominant belief that they alone are in God's favor and that obedience to commandments are prerequisite to eternal salvation. In general, they are very judgmental (hateful and intolerant) of other Christians."

Now you know full well that SDAs are among the very few who believe that people from all denominations will be in heaven, and that the majority of its inhabitants will NOT be SDAs. It is the Holy Scriptures that condemn you - not SDAs.

And, for the record, it is you who are hateful and intolerant of other Christians, as your blog proves.
---jerry6593 on 9/30/11




It says that there will be no inheritance IN the Kingdom. Going to heaven is not an inheritance.
---James_L on 9/28/11

James

Romans 8:17 says we are heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ.

An heir is someone who stands to or is eligible for an inheritance.

You cant teach that people can do any of theses acts of the flesh mentioned in the passage and still be eligible to be an heir when scripture plainly says you cant.

Paul
---Paul on 9/30/11


Haz, I also agree with you about our inheritance. The passages that James gave do not say we lost our inheritance if we are born of the Spirit.
1 Romans 8:17 goes with the rest of the context.
"The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, "and if children, then heirs-heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ."
2. Eph 5:5, also goes with the context,
"But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints." If they are fitting for a person then the person is not saved.
3. 1 Cor. 9:26-29 is speaking of Paul disqualified as a preacher of the gospel and leading the Church.
---Mark_V. on 9/30/11


Haz 2: Here Paul in (v.24-27) is speaking of his personal self-control. And since the Greeks enjoyed two great athletic events, the Olympic games and the Isthmain games, and because the Isthmain events were held in Corinth, he gave a metaphor concerning discipline from the athletic games. A contestant who failed to meet basic training requirements could not particpate at all, much less have an opportunity to win. Paul through the metaphor was referring to such fleshly sins that disqualify a man from preaching and leading the Church. It has nothing whatsoever to do with inheritance or gifts given to believers after they die.
---Mark_V. on 9/30/11


1Cor 9:26-27
Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim, I box in such a way, as not beating the air, but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.
---James_L on 9/29/11


Good one James. Just caught a self delivered left to the head. Ha.
Back to the bag....jab,jab...right. Jab, jab spinning back fist.
Wow, one back spin....gotta rest....outta shape.
Sheep Fighting ....who ever heard of such?
Psalm 44:22
Yea, for thy sake are we killed all the day long, we are counted as sheep for the slaughter.
---Trav on 9/30/11


All possess the basic faulty doctrinal system with the dominant belief that they alone are in God's favor
*****

as a Sabbath keeper never claimed, alluded to, or even IMPLIED because I keep Gods Holy Sabbath I am "in Gods favor" and everyone else is not HOWEVER GOD DOES!

seeing how you reject Holy Scripture and GODS TRUTH by twisting spinning most of Gods Word I can now clearly see why spreading LIES with simpleton generalizations about those who simply OBEY GOD ...if one can compromise on GODS TRUTH they can sure make-up lies about anyone or anything else

should ask yourself why you HATE Gods Holy Laws and those who keep them? Christ said HE ONLY LOVES THOSE who KEEP Gods Holy Laws
---Rhonda on 9/30/11


\\There will be people in heaven with no inheritance.
---James_L on 9/28/11\\

\\Really? Show the scripture/s.\\
---Trav on 9/29/11

Rom 8:17
We are joint heirs with Christ IF we suffer with Him

Eph 5:5
For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

1Cor 9:26-27
Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim, I box in such a way, as not beating the air, but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.
---James_L on 9/29/11


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Most people do not realize that while the majority of Sabbaterians belong to the Seventh Day Adventist denomination, there are some Sabbaterians groups that are smaller (thank God!) but far more radical in their doctrinal beliefs than the SDAs.

Foremost in these minority groups are the Church of God (7th Day)-Salem conference, the Seventh Day Baptists, the United Church of God, and a few other splinter groups broken off from other Sabbaterians groups.

All possess the basic faulty doctrinal system with the dominant belief that they alone are in God's favor and that obedience to commandments are prerequisite to eternal salvation. In general, they are very judgmental (hateful and intolerant) of other Christians.
---lee1538 on 9/29/11


//What if a person believes upon Jesus, quotes scripture yet lives a life of fornication and sin...did they lose their salvation or will they go to heaven since they DO believe in Jesus? Is it enough to just believe in Him?

I would fear that a true born again Christian who continues in a life of sinful behavior, would find God's discipline very hard on him, even maybe to the point of death.

The one who was sleeping with his mother (1 Cor. 5:1) was to be excommunicated and delivered unto satan for the destruction of his body that 'he himself will be saved on the day the Lord returns.'

I believe the Scripture tells us that we are saved eternally not by our own efforts but by Christ, our Savior, that we do not to be sinless.
---lee1538 on 9/29/11


Is anyone here saying Christ gave them license to sin? No right!
But, what is Christ trying to give you? It should be a clear conscience.
I hear so many say "I try not to sin" to which I say "good." But, I dont say "luck.'
I get kind of tired, of hearing it. You and everyone on this planet are going to sin again!
If you don't have a clear conscience, can you say you know him?
What this should make clear to you, is you don't!
Am I going to sin again? I think again and again, are you? Yes!

So you may not like it, but I have a clear conscience of sinning!
Does did mean, I have a license? Well maybe!
---TheSeg on 9/29/11


Rhonda:
I would have to disagree with your SDA doctrine.
****

no idea what an "sda doctrine" is OR what it is about and I sure don't care because I don't follow counterfeit christianities LIES ....maybe that is why you choose to reject GODS TRUTH and worship and serve the lies of men that teach a license to sin in Christ?

I choose EVERY Word Luke 4:4 from Holy Scripture not mans ideas about Holy Scripture

GODS Truth always prevails sadly many cling to and serve their "christian doctrines" deceived by false ministers who REJECT Gods plain truth
---Rhonda on 9/29/11


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Haz27 //And who are they that "overcome"?

1 John5:4,5 "For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who BELIEVES that Jesus is the Son of God?"

Very good!!!!

But there are always those that will erect standards by which they can compare themselves to others. -the 'we are the remnant' of God people.
---lee1538 on 9/29/11


Rhonda//only those who keep Gods 10 commandments HIS Spiritual LawsOVERCOME will be resurrected to eternal life Rev 2:26 3:21 21:7

No one will ever be resurrected to eternal life by obedience to laws as salvation is wholly of God granted as a free gift to whomever will believe.

Ro 3:28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.

6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the FREE GIFT of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Of course, the children of Hagar from Mt. Sinai where God gave the 10 commandmemnts will always have a differences with the children of the promise given to Abraham. Gal. 4:29
---lee1538 on 9/29/11


Rhonda:
I would have to disagree with your SDA doctrine.

Believeing on Jesus is whats required. Sadly some professing Christians fail on this.

Thanks for referring to Rev2:26 3:21 21:7.
Did you note it speaks about them that "overcome"?

And who are they that "overcome"?

1John5:4,5 "For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who BELIEVES that Jesus is the Son of God?"
---Haz27 on 9/29/11


BUT if we miss or forget to confess some so called "SIN", what then?
Damnation?
***

rcc teaches that bogus lie with her pergatory and other hell-fire stories adapted from non-other than Dante

True Believers understand PAST sins are forgiven at conversion ...future sins will happen because it is a process of OVERCOMING

unlike counterfeit christianity that teaches to say Christs name on your lips click heels 3 times and poof your "saved" then TEACHING one has a license to sin IN Christ

only those who keep Gods 10 commandments HIS Spiritual LawsOVERCOME will be resurrected to eternal life Rev 2:26 3:21 21:7
---Rhonda on 9/29/11


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There will be people in heaven with no inheritance.
---James_L on 9/28/11


Really? Show the scripture/s.

Eze 47:21 So shall ye divide this land unto you according to the tribes of Israel.

22And it shall come to pass, that ye shall divide it by lot for an inheritance unto you, and to the strangers that sojourn among you, which shall beget children among you: and they shall be unto you as born in the country among the children of Israel, they shall have inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel.

Acts 20:32 now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.
---Trav on 9/29/11


///Jesus said, "If you love me, you'll obey me." donna5535

what verse is that?
---aka on 9/28/11///

aka, Jesus said that in John Chapter 14 verse 15: If ye love me, keep my commandments.

New American Standard says: If you love me, you'll obey me.

aka, have you read your bible through and through? It's right there in John Chapter 14.
---Donna5535 on 9/29/11


no,scripture clearly tells us even demons believe
---tom2 on 9/29/11


Paul, you are making a very common mistake with Eph 5.

It says that there will be no inheritance IN the Kingdom. Going to heaven is not an inheritance.

An inheritance is a possession. Imagine if you get to go to an amusement park, you can have a good time. But what if you inherit that amusement park? Now it belongs to you.

Or imagine if you inherit a house from your parents. If you have a wife and kids who go live there with you, who owns the house? All of you, or only the one who inherited it?

There will be people in heaven with no inheritance.
---James_L on 9/28/11


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Sag said: "We all need to be constantly searching ourselves for any Hidden, Denied, Unrecognized, etc. SIN. Immediately confess, and turn, and receive God's forgivenenss from such SIN."

BUT if we miss or forget to confess some so called "SIN", what then?
Damnation?

Sag, you got it right when you said "Fortunately, we are BLAMELESS because of the shed blood of Jesus Christ."

So Christians are the righteous, in Christ only. We are no longer sinners. (1Peter4:18).
Yes, it is enough just to believe on Him.
Sadly many struggle with this and, like the foolish Galatians, they try to become perfect by the flesh in spite of having begun in the Spirit.




---Haz27 on 9/28/11


//Jesus said, "If you love me, you'll obey me." // donna5535

what verse is that?
---aka on 9/28/11


How perfect is your life? You may not fornicate, but what other types of wrong do you do?

And what about the many remarried divorcees in church. They are in adultery (Mark 10:11)?
---Haz27 on 9/27/11

It is pretty obvious -- to ME at least -- that every living person falls short of being 100% perfect.

As GOOD a person we might be, we still fall short of the mark. There is some BAD in all of us.

Fortunately, we are BLAMELESS because of the shed blood of Jesus Christ.

My answer to your question is this:

We all need to be constantly searching ourselves for any Hidden, Denied, Unrecognized, etc. SIN. Immediately confess, and turn, and receive God's forgivenenss from such SIN.
---Sag on 9/28/11


David mockingly comments: ''Warwick believes Thomas did not know who Jesus was during the whole 3 1/2 years of his association with Jesus as one of the 12 disciples''

David obviously thinks Thomas and the other disciples KNEW who Jesus was all the time they were with him. Yet God's Word says they ran from him, doubted him,and didn't have a clue that ''he was the image of the invisible God, that all things were created by him...and that in him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead''.

Some knowledge they had David!
---Marc on 9/28/11


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In response to my comment that if Thomas' comment ''The God of me'' wasn't directed to Jesus, as God's Word says it was, but was an exclamatory surprise outburst directed at no one in particular, then this would be an instance of Thomas taking God's name in vain, Scott facetiously responds, ''So now God's name is God (Theos)?''

So, Scott, you welcome and approve of your children wandering around exclaiming ''Ohhhh, myyyyy Godddddd!'' every time they are surprised? And you chuckle with joy every time one of your work colleagues exclaims the same way? And what about those self-absorbed teenagers on public transport? You join in with them, chanting in unison,''OhhhhmyyyyyGoooodddddd!''?
---marc on 9/28/11


Paul:
I suspect you meant to refer to Gal 5 but accidently said Eph 5.

Gal 5:19-21 is speaking of the works of the flesh.
But if your a Christian then your a new creature. HENCEFORTH WE REGARD NO MAN AFTER THE FLESH 2Cor 5:16.

Why judge others salvation based on their lifestyle. A Christian's righteousness is in Christ, not in our own efforts.

---Haz27 on 9/28/11


Our response for all Christ did for us, Dying for us while we were still sinners. Should be obedience born out of admiration/thankfulness/love/humility/faith. It is excepting His Lordship over our lives with a passionate desire to gratify our Beloved Redeemer who gave all for us. If obedience comes from other motives that are not out of love for Christ and His work on the Cross and us trying to worship/adore/exult Him, we may just be trying to escape from judgment/hell by mingling our works with His gift of salvation/grace/love/forgiveness. There is nothing we can add to justification or His redeeming love, it is for His Glory alone, apart from our prideful rhetoric and shallow works.
In His loving grip
---Poppa_Bear on 9/28/11


Wouldnt one of the principle beliefs of satan and his peeps, BE!
To make you believe God, is not going too and will not forgive you.
Basically putting a wedge between you and God? And isnt the bible clear enough?
There is no one and nothing that can come between you and God!

Im telling you. Most of you have no idea, who or what youre talking about.
Some of you talk, like you are forgiven. If this was so, you would have no sin.
Think, Im lying to you. When I say you are yet in your sin.
I dont want to see them. But, you parade them around like a peacock!
God please forgive me. More to the point is Mat_5:13, Heb_10:29.
Wow!
---TheSeg on 9/28/11


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Cluny, leave it up to you to twist the meaning of my words. I never said I don't sin, I said I choose not to sin, but I am a sinner saved by Grace.

I sin, yes I do, but not on purpose and not intentionally. While my friends are living with men in fornication, divorcing their husbands and remarrying and saying it's the Lord, I choose not to do that.

Jesus said, "If you love me, you'll obey me." Stop twisting people's words Cluny. You pick on people's responses instead of ansering the question that is posted.
---Donna5535 on 9/28/11


Believing in Jesus is not criteria for salvation. Satan believes in Jesus, does quote scripture and will find himself in the lake of fire.
In the situation described in the question we have a person trying to work out their salvation. They have attained a knowledge of Christ but haven't completely submitted.
If a true Christian sees a person in this state, don't pass judgement lest you condemn yourself. Instead pray earnestly for this person and as often as you can, entreat the person to pray with you. Seek to teach, first by the example of your own life and by secondly by sharing scripture that applies to their live meekly, gently and with Christian love.
---mikes on 9/27/11


\\I choose not to fornicate. The person who chooses to do that "practices" sin.\\

I'm sure you have other sins.

\\ I choose to forgive those who have deeply betrayed me, thus I'm not "in sin."\\

If you say you have no sin, you deceive yourself, and the Truth, Jesus, is NOT IN YOU!

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/27/11


markv, You have no respect in order for you to repectfully answer rightly.
---Eloy on 9/27/11


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James

You would do well to study Ephesians 5:19-21.

This would apply to pre and post beliefe in Christ.

You can not teach people that they can commit forbiden acts and still be eligabile to enter the kingdom of God.

Do you feel God is desperate for souls to allow such things to be permitted when He has destroyed entire cities for such as the like?

Paul
---Paul on 9/28/11


james_l...you are right. it does not say hell. it says that non-belief does not lead to salvation and it is a well established theme that those that are unfruitful are eventually burned up.

Luk 8:12 The ones along the path are those who have heard, then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved.
Luk 8:13 And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root, they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away.
Luk 8:14 And as for what fell among the thorns, they are those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by the cares and riches and pleasures of life, and their fruit does not mature.
---aka on 9/28/11


And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

If only you could see mercy!
Every time I hear people say, THE SINNERS!
Arent the sinners the ones that dont believe?
Well, why dont they believe, because to them it is not given!
Even the bible says you only believe, because to you. It is given!
Given! You did nothing.

You think hes looking at them, when he knows were sinners!
Wouldnt a sinner be someone who denies the gifts and calling of God?

For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
---TheSeg on 9/28/11


Cluny, they do teach salvation by works. You just don't believe it does because your church teaches the same. Without the Holy Spirit, because no one taught been born of the Spirit, I believed I lived a blameless life. I conformed to what the RCC Church required in the belief that I was doing the will of God. I went to confession, received Holy Communion, observed the regualations of Lent, believed all the teachings of the Church. I believe that I was right with God because I was faithfully doing my religious duty. Religious duty is the standard by which faithfulness to God is measured in the RCC. Jesus said:
"These people honor Me with their lips, but their hearts are far from Me"
---Mark_V. on 9/28/11


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Cluny 2: Without going through all the catechisms, we know that works to salvation are required from the members.
1. A catholic by his own works gets baptized and believes he is regenerated.
2. Observing Mass
3. Eating Christ on Sundays.
4. Believing the Church is the only one with the Truth.
The Bible teaches examples of people who sincerely thought they were right with God when, in fact, they were not. Sacrements can't make us right with God, and the RCC Church can't make us right with God. And individual can only be right with God if they are born of the Spirit, by the Holy Spirit. A person is not born again by his own works.
---Mark_V. on 9/28/11


Donna55 you/said, Remember, truth is revealed, not studied and not taught The illumination/comprehension of truth is a revelation from God to those who believe, but we are still called to study and the body has been blessed with gifted teachers to help us grow in the word/Christ/love/Christian duties. I hope you see this point in the scriptures, I am trying to be gentle and not condescending. Also, we are all sinful until we become glorified beings, escaping this body of sin. If even the Holiest person alive was to look at God in his glory/Holiness while in his earthly/body he/she would say like the prophet Isaiah, Woe is me, I am undone! Because no matter how morally obedient we are, we commit sins of omission that we dont even know constently.
---Poppa_Bear on 9/27/11


Donna5535,

your friend could very well be saved and fornicate regularly. Or lie, or steal, or ever-eat, or gossip, etc.

Unfortunately, most assume that going to heaven is determined by our behavior.

In the parable of the sower, the first soil is the only one that didn't receive the seed (gospel). The other three all received the seed, yet only the last one bore fruit.

Almost everyone will say that the 2nd and 3rd are people who end up in hell.

But Jesus never said that. People read that into the text. Those unfruitful believers will be there too.

I'd love to discuss it further. Will you write me?

Jamea3384
---James_L on 9/27/11


\\You are teaching salvation by works of the law and still under the bondage of the RCC.\\

The Roman Catholic Church doesn't teach salvation by works of the law, either.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/27/11


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The faithful christians will hear the voice of Jesus upon his soon to come return when the dead in Christ will rise and those that are living will be caught up with them. This is the first resurrection.

The second resurrection will come after the thousand year reign of Christ when all the other dead shall rise and be judged from the Book of Life according to their works. Some to everlasting life and some to everlasting death.

Blessed are those that rise in the first resurrection.

God is not only a God of love, but also a just God.
---Steveng on 9/27/11


Eloy, I respectfully answer no to your request. If you speak false doctrine, I will answer you. You are no different then anyone else. You are not untouchable.
For the docrine of Christ has no works. He is sufficient to cover anyone's sins. It does not need your help one bit. You are teaching salvation by works of the law and still under the bondage of the RCC. We are justified by faith. Saved by the grace of God through faith, which is not even others but is given to us. No one deserves salvation, that God saves some is the miracle. He could have chosen to save none.
---Mark_V. on 9/27/11


Give ye them to eat.
Whence shall we buy bread, that these may eat?
How many loaves have ye? Go and see!

Bring them hither to me.
Make the men sit down.
Mat 14:20 And they did all eat, and were filled:
(Gather up the fragments that remain, that nothing be lost.)
and they took up of the fragments that remained twelve baskets full.
(Way more to start with. Think!)
(On second thought dont think)

And it came to pass, as he was alone praying, his disciples were with him: and he asked them, saying, Whom say the people that I am?

Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:
Believe ye that I am able to do this?
Peace
---TheSeg on 9/27/11


As for your OT saints going to Hades - it smells of the RC doctrine of purgatory.
---christan on 9/27/11

so, where do you say that they went?
---aka on 9/27/11


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Donna 5535 I agree the word practice doesn't always mean to do it over and over until you learn how and gain a skill. It means the same in that verse in 1st John as it does to say a Doctor practices medicine. The person is engaged in or occupied with either their profession daily,or in this case,they sin repeatedly. A Doctors profession,or any profession is a big part of the persons life and when applied to sin it is also a big part of the persons life.
---Darlene_1 on 9/27/11


Donna:
How perfect is your life? You may not fornicate, but what other types of wrong do you do?
And what about the many remarried divorcees in church. They are in adultery (Mark 10:11) so have they lost their salvation?

The gospel is to believe on Jesus and be saved. It's not based on how good a life we live.

Christians who do wrong will not profit by it similar to King David with his adultery/murder. But if they continue to believe on Jesus they will be saved.

God is working individually in each of our lives.
We shouldn't judge each other's salvation based on lifestyle.
---Haz27 on 9/27/11


Cluny, this is why you need the Baptism of the Holy Spirit to illuminate the truth of God's word to you.

Remember, truth is revealed, not studied and not taught.

You missed First John's point between those who "practice" sin and those of us who choose NOT to practice sin, but sin but not on purpose.

I choose not to fornicate. The person who chooses to do that "practices" sin. I choose to forgive those who have deeply betrayed me, thus I'm not "in sin." I repent quickly, do people who continually sin and not repent, what do you call those kinds of people?
---Donna5535 on 9/27/11


JamesL,

According to Scripture, one cannot be justified if he is not "regenerated" (born of the Spirit). There's a clear order in the salvation of a saint, be it in the OT or the NT. And this is the order according to Paul in Romans 8:30,

"Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."

That is to say, those who are elected will be regenerated and then justified and finally glorified.

As for your OT saints going to Hades - it smells of the RC doctrine of purgatory.
---christan on 9/27/11


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\\First John talks about those who "Practice" sin and people who say they know Jesus but "practice sin on a daily/weekly basis" are not of the faith, right?\\

Donna, none of us have to practice sin.

ALL of us are quite accomplished at it.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/27/11


JamesL, I understand what you're saying.

First John talks about those who "Practice" sin and people who say they know Jesus but "practice sin on a daily/weekly basis" are not of the faith, right?

Those of us who Obey His Word, Forgive, turn the other cheek, abstain from every form of lust, and by the Spirit we are putting to death the deeds of the flesh, this is a regenerated person and isn't it this person who makes it to heaven?

I'm just trying to clear up confusion for her. She says she knows Jesus and is going to heaven and I say to her, "then how can you live in fornication with a man for almost 7 years?" This cannot be if she is saved. Right?
---Donna5535 on 9/27/11


markV, I asked you politely not to address me until that time that you are ready to accept the truth which I post. Please respect this, as others have done.
---Eloy on 9/27/11


Christan,

I misworded my post. I meant to say that OT saints did not go to heaven until Jesus died. They were justified, but the Spirit had not been poured out on all flesh.

OT Testament saints went to Hades, or Sheol - the place of the dead. Jesus went to preach victory there. He told the thief on the the cross "this day...with Me in Paradise" He did not say heaven

Regeneration does not happen before justifaciation, and you can't even come close to proving that one fromm scripture. You can argue that one from your logic and rhetoric all you want to, but it is empty.

I'll get some scripture references in my next reply to refute your "logic" you try to throw at me next
---James_L on 9/27/11


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Eloy, You should not teach Scripture anywhere. You said,
"satan believes in Jesus, but he does not follow him: and inspite of his belief he will not enter the kingdom of heaven, but instead be thrown down into hell. Belief without action is vain, and faith without works is 100% dead"
Believers are saved by grace through faith, the devil did not receive faith from God,
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God, Not of works" lest anyone should boast"
Your boasting in your works. You are in denial, thinking your works will get you into the kingdom of heaven. You need a third rebirth, the two you had did not cut it.
---Mark_V. on 9/27/11


"That's why OT saints didn't go there. They were not regenerated." JamesL

JamesL, where did you get this idea from? Definitely not from the Scripture but from your own demented understanding. I would suggest you read Hebrews 11 thoroughly before you make such a claim.

According to the writer of Hebrews 11, all saints are saved in the same manner, whether they be OT or NT or the present or the future that's to come. And that's what Paul calls Justification by Faith. And this Paul teaches in detail in Romans and Galatians 3 & 4.

You will notice that he mentions the OT saints in his teachings. One cannot be Justified by Faith if he is not regenerated by the Holy Spirit.
---christan on 9/27/11


satan believes in Jesus, but he does not follow him: and inspite of his belief he will not enter the kingdom of heaven, but instead be thrown down into hell. Belief without action is vain, and faith without works is 100% dead.
---Eloy on 9/27/11


To believe in Jesus is to rely on, adhere to, depend upon, and trust in Him, as the Spirit of Truth, The One sent. Believing in the One sent is the "work of God" in the believers life. He that started that good work within you, shall bring that work to completion, by His Grace. By His grace, His word abides within. By His grace the chosen abide in His Word. By doing so, they will know the truth, and that truth will set them free of sin, doubt, unbelief. They are sealed "and given the earnest of the Spirit," and has been redeemed spiritually, and will be redeemed physically. Jhn 6:29>Phl 1:6>Jhn 8:31,32>2Cr 1:20-22>Gal 3:13>Eph 1:7>Rom 8:23
---Josef on 9/27/11


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Cluny, so you'l finally admit your as fake as i am? LOL...
We are justified, indeedso we are MADE JUST
we are sancified, MADE SANCTUM. and indeed sin canot enter heaven, Thank God, but the repentant sinner will, because Christ is our Holyness.
ON THE other hand once we "are a new Creation", we "have the power to BECOME sons of God" (compilation of two scriptures) so our present state might be sinner, yet we work out our salvation, because it is through grace we are saved which is a gift of God not by works so no man might boast. (another compilation of two scriptures). otherwise said
Works do not save us but they are nessecary to keep our salvation. GOD IS GREAT
---andy3996 on 9/27/11


Who know for sure? I just believe the Word of God. Trust Jesus. Live the best life I can through Christ Jesus by the leading of the Holy Spirit. I cannot do anything without Jesus. I acknowledge that and live in a state of dependence on Him(Jesus) everyday. We should desire God's will,above all, for our lives. It is more than just believing. It is a lifestyle with much giving up and sacrifice. A lot of pain,tears,suffering mixed with a lot of joy,peace,happiness in Jesus. Hills and valleys. Ups and downs. Blessings and misfortunes. But we still hang on to God's unchanging hands.
---Robyn on 9/26/11


Clunny, that is the most funny, yet true and sad post I have read on here.
---Jed on 9/26/11


Cluny, you gave life to the small thought that was bubbling up in the not so spiritual part of my brain, LOL. Hard for me to keep in mind all the time that even the fake/unsaved are in need of so much mercy and love if they have'nt placed their trust in the message of the Cross/Gospel/Christ. Its easy to become trite/irritated/condescending/hardened some days as we encounter a world of ruthless scoffers, manipulators and those who take life and pray on children and the weak. Being humble and loving is sometimes the biggest Cross to carry.
In His loving grip
---Poppa_Bear on 9/26/11


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Where do fake Christians go?

Mostly to these blogs.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/26/11


Matt. 15:8-9a, This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, & honoureth me with their lips,but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me.
Mark 7:6-7a,...Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.Howbeit in vain do they worship me.
Isa. 29:13,Wherefore the Lord saith, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, & their lips do honour me, but have removed their hearts far from me,...
Rev. 3:15-16,I know thy works, that thou art neither cold or hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, & neither cold or hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
---Reba on 9/26/11


Peter, every human sins. The only way to heaven is thru Jesus Christ. He is the Door. No one can get there any other way. You are either saved or lost. There is no in between. Read what happens to christians when they willfully sin. 1 Corinthians 5. To deliver such an one to satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. Christians cannot sin and get by with it.
---shira3877 on 9/26/11


Donna5535,
You are trying to measure the validity of a believer by the flesh, and trying to relate to God through rules instead of by the Spirit.

aspects of saving grace which ought to be studied in order to get a better grasp:

NO SIN will enter heaven. If you think sinning less will help, you are mistaken. We cannot go to heaven if we are only "considered" sinless. That's why OT saints didn't go there. They were not regenerated.

Regeneration - born again. A present reality by which God has re-created the believer's spirit into a sinless being.

Resurrection - when the body (flesh) is re-created sinless.

If you don't understand these, you will always be asking of you have done enough.
---James_L on 9/26/11


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A good question, yet one that we realy cannot answer in the abstract.

We are not to 'live in sin', that is true. And yet there IS some sin in each person's life, and so I took it to be not the sin we 'commit' but whether we fight that sin.

Not a good answer, I know. Yet I find, when I look back over each week (sometimes even each day!) that there was some sin, even some sin that 'I should have know it was a sin' hidden somewhere in there!
---Peter on 9/26/11


James faith without works is dead,
Jesus said if you love me you'll obey my teachings. the rest of the question you fill in for yourself.
---andy3996 on 9/26/11


That's not believing on the Jesus who died so we would stop living for sinful pleasure. Paul warns of false Jesus Christs > "For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted---you may well put up with it!" (2 Corinthians 11:4) "But she who lives in pleasure is dead while she lives." (1 Timothy 5:6) By living for immoral pleasure, or food pleasure etc., this keeps someone out of God's love so the person can be weak enough to be in an emotional hell, now, never mind later!
---Bill_willa6989 on 9/26/11


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