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Purpose Of God's Grace

What is the purpose of God's grace?

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 ---lee1538 on 9/28/11
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David I am not sure of your point. Please explain in a little more detail.

We are indeed saved by faith (gift of God) by His grace (also a gift) and not by works- Ephesians 2:8,9. However we should take into account that vs. 10 continues "For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Therefore we are not saved by works but God has appointed post-salvation works for us to do. See James ch. 2 for more detail.
---Warwick on 10/3/11


kathr i don't really know what your trying to achieve, but apparently and however God wants all to be saved also God did predistened some to be lost, why does he do that? I have no idea (Rom 9)
---andy3996 on 10/3/11


Francis:
I see you judge Warwick as being overcome by the world in his continual breaking of Sabbath by observing it on Sunday instead of Saturday.

What a distorted and complicated gospel the SDA's preach. Which is why I say "according to SDA's".

Contrary to SDA doctrine the true gospel is clear, "believe on Jesus". The criminal on the cross did this without having to prove/confirm it through lifestyle or footwashing etc.

Again, I direct you to Rom 8:4 "sin was condemned in the flesh that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us".

"Christ is the END of the law for righteousness to everyone that believes" Rom 10:4
---Haz27 on 10/3/11


The sad thing MarkV is that religious people only have head knowledge. No real personal experience in GRACE, or evidence of this Grace you claim you are saved by.

When the Gospel of Jesus Christ shines into you Markv, your eyes and ears will be opened to the truth.

GRACE is your identification with Jesus death and resurrection life. THAT is what SAVES you and that is the GIFT He gives, LIFE from the dead. The Spirit of the LIFE of Christ IN YOU...His risen life.

This is HOW one is saved.



But this life from the dead is about the fellowship of His suffering being made conformablle to His death, AKA Predestined to be comformed to His Image.

You do plan to be Glorified together with Him don't you? Romans 8
---kathr4453 on 10/3/11


//The evidence one is saved is SUFFERING...

Maybe if we as Christians do not suffer, we should re-establish the practice of flogging ourselves much like the ascetics did during the first few centuries after the church was established.

What other means is there to get the flesh to behave and do what is right?

Frankly we all suffer to some degree as seldom does everything go right for us.
---lee1538 on 10/3/11




Kathr, you continue to write your own scripture. More religious talk when you said'
"JamesL, James is talking about SANCTIFICATION, just as Paul was talking about SANCTIFICATION in Galatians. The evidence one is saved is SUFFERING. And the works of this GRACE LIFE in and through us is SUFFERING. Again Paul addresses in Phil 3...SUFFERING. Being conformed to His Image. No Suffering, no evidence of teh life of Christ in you working through you."
Everything you said is out of context. Just because the word suffering maybe found in the passage the messages are different in every passage you gave. More religious talk to sound like you know what you are saying. You have no clue what Grace is.
---Mark_V. on 10/3/11


---"(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth,) It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." Romans 9:11-13.

As for your denial of predestination, you deny the prophesy/predestination plan of Jesus Christ in Isaiah 53. And yes, you have been predestined to reject this very doctrine.
---christan on 10/3/11

That's called DOUBLE Predestination, that God predestined people to Hell.

Please back that up with scripture!

We are predestined to be conformed to His image. But that is AFTER one is saved.
---kathr4453 on 10/3/11


Kathr 2: You also say,
"Christan and Andy, Does this make sense to you?
Shall we continue to sin that predestination may abound."

Predestination does not abound in sin, it is an act of God. Only those chosen from the foundation of the world will be saved. You don't like for God to have that power over you. That's the reason you argue. You want to save yourself whenever you want if you want to. But God said:
"Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love" ( Eph. 1:4) Nothing could be more clear then that. Who is he talking to? To the believers "the saints." You don't like it, so you argue.
---Mark_V. on 10/3/11


1Co_6:5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

1Ti_1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. (You think because you say, "I try to keep it," you're keeping?)
1Ti_1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully,
1Ti_1:9-10!

Rom_3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God,
This is speaking especially to you! Who say, you try!
Because, Mat_5:8!

You think God is looking for the Good.
He said: There is none good but one, that is, God!
You're still afraid of God!
Peace
---TheSeg on 10/3/11


according to SDA's you are practicing sin in observing Sunday Sabbath. ---Haz27 on 10/3/11
Why would you say according to SDA?
Does not the word of God say:
1 John 3:4 sin is the transgression of the law.

Does not the word of God point to the ten commandments as the law which defines sin

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? [Is] the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

So why say SDA says... when clearly it is THE WORD OF GOD which says?
---Francis on 10/3/11




Christan and Andy, Does this make sense to you?
Shall we continue to sin that predestination may abound.

You have fallen from Predestination.

I do not make void the predestination of God, for if righteousness comes by the law, Christ died in vain.

Vengeance on those who insult the spirit of predestination.

Jesus came full of predestination and truth.

Predestination for Predestination.

But unto every one of us is given predestination according to the measure of the gift of Christ

Predestination be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ

For the Predestination of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
---kathr4453 on 10/3/11


David, A-men.
---Eloy on 10/3/11


Warwick:
You misunderstand 2Pet2:20
You judge whether someone is overcome by the world based on how well they obey the commandments.

But God says in 1John5:4,5 "Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who BELIEVES that Jesus is the Son of God?"

But according to SDA's you are practicing sin in observing Sunday Sabbath. You are overcome.

And perhaps you judge Christian divorcees who re-marry as adulterers (Mark 10:11), and therefore are overcome.

Regarding our works, Jesus was asked what works we should do and he answered "believe on him whom he hath sent"
John 6:9.
Unbelief in Jesus is the sin the world is convicted of John 16:9.
---Haz27 on 10/3/11


"God only gives you HIS faith when you exercise YOUR faith in his Son!" CraigA

CraigA, you make no sense with your statement. If you can exercise "YOUR faith", why does God need to give you "HIS faith", since by your own faith you already believe in Jesus???? What gospel is this?

"God for ordained that everyone would be saved and He forordained that everyone that was saved would have good works." shira4368

Shira, like CraigA, you too make no sense with your claim. If God did "foreordained that everyone would be saved", why would souls be damned in Hell? Shouldn't everyone be in Heaven according to your claim? Again what kind of gospel is this?
---christan on 10/3/11


"The Purpose of God's Grace is not God picking and choosing who will and who will not be saved THIS IS denying predestination." andy3996"

Then kindly explain what Paul was teaching when he declared, "(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth,) It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." Romans 9:11-13.

As for your denial of predestination, you deny the prophesy/predestination plan of Jesus Christ in Isaiah 53. And yes, you have been predestined to reject this very doctrine.
---christan on 10/3/11


Paul is generally referring to mans justification before God through faith in the saving work of our Lord. James is talking about our justification before man/others, testifying to a saved and transformed life through faith in our Lord. Paul talks about our position in Christ through faith while James talks about our position before others as people who live out what they believe. James context is not referring to salvation as much as it is our call to live out our faith. They do not conflict, or contradict, the Bible does not argue with its self, EVER. I hope this can help with some peoples interpretations.
In His loving grip 70x7
---Poppa_Bear on 10/3/11


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David, Do you think Paul contradicts himself?

Warwick
We are saved by Grace through Faith, and if that faith is without deeds, then my answer has to be... Yes!
(Romans 2:6-7)
God will repay each person according to what they have done. To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
---David on 10/3/11


JamesL, James is talking about SANCTIFICATION, just as Paul was talking about SANCTIFICATION in Galatians.

Paul states in Gal 3...have ye SUFFERED so much in Vain...James, ch 1, the testing we endure...SUFFERING.

The evidence one is saved is SUFFERING. And the works of this GRACE LIFE in and through us is SUFFERING. Again Paul addresses in Phil 3...SUFFERING. Being conformed to His Image.

No Suffering, no evidence of teh life of Christ in you working through you.

Gal 2:20-21

Suffering is not a choice, it is the only thing that brings FRUIT. Gal 5...Those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh...OUCH...suffering.

Only those who really suffer KNOW and Understand the book of James.
---kathr4453 on 10/3/11


JamesL, another way of looking at it too is James is addressing the Jews the way Paul addressed the Corinthians. Of coarse Paul wouldn't address them in the same language, however, Paul said, Sew to the flesh or Spirit. To the flesh destruction, the Spirit LIFE.

Peter James and Paul all preached LIBERTY.

It appears that Jesus came to set at LIBERTY, FREE, GRACE through the Cross.

Just read all verses that have LIBERTY in them.
---kathr4453 on 10/3/11


JamesL, LIBERTY and GRACE go together as well, that is if you really understood what Liberty is. Being set FREE from sin and death. It also includes being set free from our old adam nature. That's way Paul asked, shall we continue to sin that Grace may abound GOD FORBID...and goes on to EXPLAIN in Romans 6 what GRACE IS...He asked Don't you KNOW....

If you don't know, then you should know. Grace is being identified with Christ in death and resurrection life.

The whole Idea of Abraham sacrificing Isaac was a type of Christ death and resurrection. God revealed this to Abraham. Heb 11. James is re-iterating.
---kathr4453 on 10/3/11


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Haz you wrote "What I have been trying to determine from you is HOW MUCH works are necessary to prove our salvation?"

Do you imagine God cannot tell who is living the life He commands we do?

And do you imagine God is not aware of those who claim to be Christians but have no good works, but live lives of continual rebellion?

"If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning." 2 Peter 2:20

You foolishly imagine good works are measured in man-hours when we are dealing with God who know the heart of man. Consider how God described King David.
---Warwick on 10/2/11


David, Paul wrote "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-not by works, so that no one can boast." Ephesians 2:8,9

Paul also wrote "What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness" Romans 4:3.

Do you think Paul contradicts himself?

Isn't everything in Christianity acheived by faith, and that itself a gift given by the grace of God? Romans 12:3?

Muscles grow from use as does faith. The whole chapter of Hebrews 11 is written in praise of those who stepped out in faith.
---Warwick on 10/2/11


James I am confident I have the correct context of James. He says that for the Christian faith with without works is useless. He writes of Abraham whose faith was coupled with works making his faith complete. The Christian who claims he has faith but has no deeds is therefore incomplete.
---Warwick on 10/2/11


Kathr,
I agree that James and Paul are not in conflict. BUT, the "evidence" view of James 2 definitely puts them in conflict. James is not talking about a dead MAN, he's talking about dead FAITH.

He's also in the context of the BEMA, where we will be judged by the law of liberty (2:12) and warns that teachers will be judged stricter (3:1)

Do you think James couldn't stay on track with his thoughts? Or maybe it's possible that he was still talking about the Bema when he asked if faith by itself could "save" a man? That is, after all, between his two statements about a believer's judgment.

The apostles were a little more focused than to be bouncing around, in and out of topics with no aim.
---James_L on 10/2/11


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Eloy, stop ducking the issue: if I am incorrect show me where, from Scripture.

And while you are at it answer the question. "If we can gain our salvation by works what was the purpose of Jesus atoning sacrifice upon the cross?"

If you are correct it should be easy for you.
---Warwick on 10/2/11


James, concerning your answer on Rom. 4:4-6 in the context Paul here makes it clear that the forensic act of declaring a man righteous is completely apart from any kind of human work. If salvation were on the basis of one's own effort, God would owe salvation as a debt. But salvation is always a sovereign given gift of God's grace ( Rom. 3:24: Eph. 2:8,9) to those who believe ( 1:16). Since faith is contrasted with work, faith must mean the end of any attempt to earn God's favor through personal merit. You get nothing for good works unless you are saved already by grace because you were chosen unto good works, that was also a sovereign act.
---Mark_V. on 10/1/11


JamesL , James was not contradicting Paul when James uses the word works. James uses the word WORKS and Paul uses the word OBEDIENCE. They are ssaying the exact same thing. Faith without obedience is dead.

Paul tells us in Romans 6, OBEY. So ONLY those works that come from a Christian are the works of the New Creature who has Risen with Christ and has the life of Christ in them.

This is the evidence we are saved, No dead man can work his way to God. And the one already dead and risen with Christ is already saved( we are saved by His Risen life, not works)

***Galatians 2:20-21
***Hebrews 13:20-21****
---kathr4453 on 10/1/11


The Purpose of God's Grace is not God picking and choosing who will and who will not be saved THIS IS denying predestination.

Mt 11:25,26 20:16,23 22:14 24:22,40,41 25:34 26:24 Mr 13:20,22 14:21 Lu 4:25-27 8:10 10:20 17:34-36 18:7 #Lu 22:22 Joh 6:37,39,44,45 15:16,19 17:2,6,9 21:23 Ac 1:7 #Ac 2:23,39,47 3:18 4:28 13:48 17:26 22:14 Ro 1:6 Ro 8:28-30,33 9:7-33 11:5,7,8 1Co 1:26-29 2:7 Ga 1:15 Eph 1:4,5,9-11 2:10 3:11 Col 3:12 1Th 1:4 2:12 2Th 2:13 2Ti 1:9 Tit 1:1,2 Jas 1:18 1Pe 1:2,20 2Pe 1:10 Jude 1:4 Re 13:8.
---andy3996 on 10/1/11


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Faith without works is surely dead faith:

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.James 2:26

Faith alone will not save a person. Without faith it is impossible to please him so how do we please him? By helping the poor and unfortunate. Unlike many worldly denominations where they must work to be saved, our works as christians is a labor of love for God the Father.


Read the entire chapter of James Chapter 2
---Steveng on 10/1/11


warwick, First get a Holy Biblefor yourself, then you look it up.
---Eloy on 10/1/11


Maybe it's so you can better see the light in you. So you can see how it shines in you. Why it shines in you, if indeed it shines in you. I think some of us see this light, and say look I'm shining. What they dont see, is where the light is coming from. It's not you shining, but the light of your father shining in you. You should be a reflection of this light!

Gen_1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him, male and female created he them.

So when you see people, without this light.
Do you pity them, like so many do?
I pity you, for having not understood this light!
Peace
---TheSeg on 10/1/11


Warwick said:
"for the Christian works are necessary, and proof someone is already saved"

What I have been trying to determine from you is HOW MUCH works are necessary to prove our salvation?

The criminal on the cross did no law keeping to prove his salvation.
But Christians who live for 10,20,or 40 years are going to break commandments at times.
Is there a yearly limit?

And what about the divorcees that churches marry?
Mark 10:11 says their in adultery so breaking a commandment as long as they stay married?

And what if you observe Sabbath on Sunday when it should be Saturday?

Please show scripture to answer this as it's important we know what these limits are (if they exist).
---Haz27 on 10/1/11


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Warwick forgot to mention 'dead works'.

Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ which through the eternal Spirit offered himself without fault to God, purge your conscience from dead works, to serve the living God?

And what are 'dead works' but religious type junko found in the more traditional catholic churches - bead rattling, kissing icons, kneeing before statues of saints, etc. things that make one feel good but of no benefit when it comes to other people or building up the church.
---lee1538 on 10/1/11


warwick, First pray to Christ to become a Christian. Then get a Holy Bible and begin reading the New Testament. Works Save: Matthew 5:16,20,42-44+ 7:12,19-21,24-27+ 16:27+ 25:21-30,34-46+ Mark 16:15,16+ Luke 10:25-28+ John 11:25+ 5:28,29+ 14:15+ II Corinthians 5:9,10+ Philippians 2,12+ James 1:22, 2:8,14-26+ Revelation 20:12,13+ 22:12-15.
---Eloy on 10/1/11


Grace is unmerited?

If Grace is unmerited, why did God wait 99 years before he made his covenant with Abraham?
If Grace is unmerited, why did Paul teach that Abrahams faith was credited as righteousness?
Why were Abraham's acts of Faith credited?
How does one grow in Gods Grace, if the favor of God is not merited?

Abram became Abraham, because he grew in the Grace of God.
---David on 10/2/11


christian, who are the elect? God for ordained that everyone would be saved and He forordained that everyone that was saved would have good works.
---shira4368 on 10/2/11


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\\unless a person has good works the very reality of their claim to faith is in question.\\
---Warwick on 10/1/11

that is a popular interpretation, but it ignores the context.

If you read James 2:12 and 3:1, it is clear that he is speaking to believers about OUR coming judgment at the Bema seat.

When a believer stands at the Bema, his works will have already been tested by fire (1Cor 3:10-15)

If his works have all been burned, he is standing with nothing but his faith.

Will faith alone be enough to "save" him from suffering loss?

Context, Warwick.

Also, avoid putting the apostles in direct conflict.
---James_L on 10/2/11


--What the Scripture declares is that when God dispenses His faith unto His elect--Christan

God only gives you HIS faith when you exercise YOUR faith in his Son! Thats even in scripture. Galatians 2:16. You call upon the Lord, He grants you His Spirit, which gives you the faith of Jesus Christ.

Our faith in Christ enables us to be saved by the faith OF Christ. His power in us daily helping us to overcome our sin. His blood paid the price for sin, his Spirit helps us rid it from our lives.

Thinking you can be justified without being sanctified is mocking God
---CraigA on 10/2/11


"Where in scriptre does it SAY that faith without works is false faith?" JamesL

What the Scripture declares is that when God dispenses His faith unto His elect, it is IMPOSSIBLE that good works will not follow. It's a promise and a guarantee, and this is how Paul declares, "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." Ephesians 2:10. According to Paul's teaching here, the good works done by the Christian has already been predestined for him by God after he is saved by grace through faith.

I ask you then, do you do good works because you are already saved or do you do good works hoping to be saved?
---christan on 10/1/11


Eloy if I am incorrect show me where, from Scripture.

And while you are at it answer the question. If you are correct it should be easy for you.
---Warwick on 10/1/11


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James,

Dead battery: no power, no life-therefore useless.

Dead faith: no power, no life-therefore useless.

Dead body: no power, no life-therefore useless.

What Paul writes in Romans 4:4,5 concerns Abraham being saved by faith. And that is the only way we can be saved. If it was possible by works, Jesus died in vain.

However, James (ch. 2) writes that for the Christian works are necessary, and proof someone is already saved.

Paul writes of the sinner being saved while James writes of the proper Christian life which should follow if a person really has been saved.

In fact James says that unless a person has good works the very reality of their claim to faith is in question.
---Warwick on 10/1/11


..a most pertinent question: If we can gain our salvation by works what was the purpose of Jesus atoning sacrifice upon the cross?

You must answer this question if you are to be taken seriously.
---Warwick on 9/30/11

You've never addressed ur own question, preacher. Not once.
Christ done work of the father.
Matt 15:24
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. SENT.
All prophets testify.

If one has faith, one does the work of.

Gal 4:5
To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Zech 10:8
I will hiss for them, and gather them, for I have redeemed them: they shall increase as they have increased.
---Trav on 10/1/11


warwick, your dissing of the truth is patent foolishness.
---Eloy on 9/30/11


\\Faith without works is a false faith.\\
---Mark_V. on 9/30/11

No it's not. Faith without works is what Paul said in Rom 4:4-5
Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due.

But To The One Who DOES NOT WORK, BUT BELIEVES IN HIM Who Justifies The Ungodly, His Faith I Credited As Righteousness


Where in scriptre does it SAY that faith without works is false faith?

NOWHERE

You are reading that into the text, for there is not one verse which says what you have claimed.

so if
dead faith = fake faith

then
dead battery = fake battery?
dead body = fake body?


Nonsense, Mark V. it doesn't add up. Dead rhetoric
---James_L on 9/30/11


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The Purpose of God's Grace is not God picking and choosing who will and who will not be saved. GRACE is only found in Jesus Christ, who came full of Grace and truth. The Spirit of Grace is the Gospel of Jesus Christ, death and resurrection, now based on living by the faith of Christ and not the LAW. We CONTINUE to Live in this GRACE and Grow in this Grace, by His life in us.

Those who fell from GRACE fell because they went back under the LAW.

We are saved by the Finished work of Christ on the Cross, and THAT is called GRACE. Grace is by Faith.

There is also "The Throne of GRACE", meaning it has been more than sprinkled by the blood of bulls and Goats, but by Christ's blood.


NO BLOOD... NO GRACE!
---kathr4453 on 9/30/11


Eloy, the Scriptures you give do not make a case for salvation by works. Most of them are akin to Philippians 2:12 where Paul gave advice to a particular church whose corporate life-practices needed reformation.

John 11:25 is about salvation by faith.

There is not room here to discuss every Scripture. I suggest you provide one or two Scriptures which you believe give the greatest support for your case, and let us discuss them.

Meanwhile I have a most pertinent question: If we can gain our salvation by works what was the purpose of Jesus atoning sacrifice upon the cross?

You must answer this question if you are to be taken seriously.
---Warwick on 9/30/11


Andy3996
"//Again, truly truly I say to you, The Lord God Commands you, Work, then you will have my grace// red letter edition Eloy? where did Jesus say this you failed to give the scripture reference."

Generaly, when Eloy uses the "red letter treatment" is is "supposed" to be God speaking directly through him to us.
---Bruce5656 on 9/30/11


warwick, First pray to Christ to become a Christian. Then get a Holy Bible and begin reading the New Testament. Works Save: Matthew 5:16,20,42-44+ 7:12,19-21,24-27+ 16:27+ 25:21-30,34-46+ Mark 16:15,16+ Luke 10:25-28+ John 11:25+ 5:28,29+ 14:15+ II Corinthians 5:9,10+ Philippians 2,12+ James 1:22, 2:8,14-26+ Revelation 20:12,13+ 22:12-15.
---Eloy on 9/30/11


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andy3996, A-men. The work of the O.T. Law has been done away with in Christ, nailed to the cross, and his New Law is written in his blood for all flesh to obey: Love Jesus first and completely, and love others as Jesus proved his love to us. This is the whole law and the prophets. Not only to love God, but equally to love others as God loves us. Many love God, or rather show their devotion and service to him, but they fail completely to love those whom he has made after his image. How can one say that they love God whom they do not see, when they do not love their brothers and sisters whom they do see? And this is the commandment, that we are to love one another even as he loves us.
---Eloy on 9/30/11


lee, A-men. Every Christian depends upon Christ, he is the Father and we are his children, and we are Doers of his Commandments because it is joy to please him. The damnable heresy of "do nothing" is not from God, but comes from the Adversary and the Great Deceiver in the pit.
---Eloy on 9/30/11


Jim, I not only get it, but I have it and I share it with others because I desire others to have it also.
---Eloy on 9/30/11


Bill_willa6989
"can grace be God's actual action in us . . . so "the heart is established by grace" (Hebrews 13:9)?" i think so!
---Chria9396 on 9/29/11


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At this blogg! I feel God's love so much! I don't think of my condition,I don't fear but,I love the Lord he give such grace and love the grace live each day by faith! Regardless,what doctor say to me..By faith I receive 'n believe God goin' to get the glory when I got my complete healing! others believe in God's grace! :) Love of Jesus
---ELENA on 9/30/11


Eloy I do not know of one scripture which says a sinner can be saved by works.

I do know James makes it clear believers must have their faith and actions working together (ch 2:22) or their faith is "useless." He uses the example of Abraham a man of great faith (Hebrews 11:8-12, 17,18) who in offering his son Isaac on the altar demonstrated faith and actions working together.

But good works are a proper result of salvation by faith not the source of salvation.

If we could have saved ourselves by works why did Jesus have to die and rise again?
---Warwick on 9/30/11


//Again, truly truly I say to you, The Lord God Commands you, Work, then you will have my grace// red letter edition Eloy? where did Jesus say this you failed to give the scripture reference.

i agree with YOU that faith without works is dead, (james2) but the difference between WORK OF FAITH and WORK OF LAW is nescecary to understand for salvation.

2 Corinthians 8:7 Therefore, as ye abound in every thing, in faith, and utterance, and knowledge, and in all diligence, and in your love to us, see that ye abound in this grace also.

noone should WORK the LAW to obtain salvation.

Galatians 6:2 Bear ye one anothers burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
---andy3996 on 9/30/11


Eloy has it backwards, He said,
"No Work, then No grace."
He must be reading an un-holy Bible. It's the other way around.
"No grace through faith, no works"
Faith without works is a false faith.
Why? Because the works a believer is obligated for, are now done because Christ Spirit lives in us. And the very reason He gets the glory, for all good things come from above and we acknowledge it so by faith.
Eloy wants to take the glory for himself to claim his reward.
"Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped. Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified" Rom. 3:19,20.
---Mark_V. on 9/30/11


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Eloy - I agree with you that God "it is God who produces in you the desires and actions that please him". (Php. 2:13 GWV)

It is doubtful that you can live a successful Christian life without the aid of His Spirit - much like lifting yourself by your own bootstraps.
---lee1538 on 9/30/11


Eloy..//"No Work, then No grace."

You don't get it do you Eloy.
If it is by works than it is something that you earned. It is not a gift. Rom.4:3-5

Please re-read ephesians 2:8-10.
The good things we do are an off shoot from the grace we receive from an awesome God, and we receive that grace by no other way except through our faith in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
---JIM on 9/30/11


"What is the purpose of God's grace" To quicken man together with Christ, that He might provide a place for man in HIm, and a condition within man for Him. Man is forgiven by His grace Eph 1:7 > Given to believe through His grace, Act 18:27 > Saved by His grace, Eph 2:8 > Build up by His grace, Act 20:32 > And justified by His grace. Rom 3:24 > May "The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. Rev 22:21
---joseph on 9/30/11


Eloy....you remind me of the false teachers that followed Paul around saying that you must add this or that to the Gospel of Christ.
---JIM on 9/30/11


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"No Work, then No grace." period. No matter what verses a sinner picks out of context to misapply in order to support their sin and blasphemy, it will not fly. "God's Commandment is, Work, Do my Works": and when a sinner lies to people saying the opposite of God's Command, saying, No Work because I am in grace. Then not only have they proven themself to have no grace and no fruit, but they have also sinned mightily by spreading this same blasphemy onto others. "Again, truly truly I say to you, The Lord God Commands you, Work, then you will have my grace."
---Eloy on 9/29/11


Grace can mean favor, meaning that God is pleased with you because you are living for Him > example > "But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD." (Genesis 6:8)

There is saving grace that we do not get by being pleasing to God > "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God," (Ephesians 2:8)

But is grace always just favor from a distance, or can grace be God's actual action in us . . . so "the heart is established by grace" (Hebrews 13:9)?
---Bill_willa6989 on 9/29/11


Lee, as I am sure you know there is no contradiction between Philippians 2:12 and Ephesians 2:8-9. If this were not so this would contradict the whole basis of salvation. In Ephesians Paul talks of individual sinners salvation. While in Philippians he writes to a Church encouraging them to be submissive to God's will, as they were submissive to him (God's messenger) when with them. He pleads that they, in his absence be obedient now to God in their church life, which needed reformation.

This is akin James ch. 2 "faith without deeds is useless."

Paul writes (Philippians 3:15) "I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus" encouraging them to do the same.
---Warwick on 9/29/11


Bruce5656, Absolutely. God has set down detailed Commands in the Covenant between himself and mankind. "The Lord God says, Be all you holy and do all that I command you, then I will bless your bread and your water and you will prosper in my grace: and the Lord God equally says, But if you go to serve sin and disobey my Commandments, then I will turn my back upon you and I give you up to a reprobate mind, and you will know my wrath and you will surely be condemned."
---Eloy on 9/29/11


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Eloy,
"To show His Merited favor upon our lives"

Do you mean to say we can earn (merit) God's favor?
---Bruce5656 on 9/29/11


//If we say we can work out our salvation we are calling God a liar and saying Jesus' death and resurrection was in vain.
------
Philippians 2:12 ESV Therefore my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

Salvation is a 3 step process- starts with ones spiritual birth, involves sanctification (discipline by a loving Father), and finally glorification when we became totally perfected in Him.

I would agree with those knowledgeable of the Bible that our salvation is secure in Christ and does not depend upon our own human efforts.
---lee1538 on 9/29/11


A common misconception about grace is that it is merely a provision given by God to the believer to enable one to obey the law and thus merit ones eternal salvation.

In other words, if the believer does everything in his power to obey God's laws, then God's grace may be sufficient to make up the difference to merit eternal life.

This concept makes God the big accountant in the sky, keeping score of our sins to see if we truly merit eternal life. Ps. 103:12

Jesus is the author as well as the finisher of our faith - Hebrews 12:2
---lee1538 on 9/29/11


The Holman Bible Dictionary defines grace in the specific Christian sense as speaking of the saving activity of God which is manifested in the gift of His Son to die in the place of sinners.

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-not by works, so that no one can boast" Ephesians 2:8,9 This plainly and incontrovertably proves we can do nothing to earn our salvation, need do nothing (except cry out to God for forgiveness) because it has all been done by the "gift of His Son to die in the place of sinners."

If we say we can work out our salvation we are calling God a liar and saying Jesus' death and resurrection was in vain.
---Warwick on 9/29/11


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To show His Merited favor upon our lives, for he is just.
---Eloy on 9/29/11


Lee, When God gives his grace and goodness to us, it is for us to take this grace and goodness and give it likewise to others.
---Eloy on 9/29/11


the purpose of God's grace is to demonstrate his love
---Francis on 9/29/11


To show His unmerited favor upon our lives.
---Donna5535 on 9/29/11


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God's grace is giving us something we don't deserve. God's grace is to love every person so matter if they love Him or not. God's grace is not destroying a country who has turned their backs on Him.
---shira4368 on 9/29/11


"What is the purpose of God's grace?"

To demonstrate the total inability of the sinful man to please Him. That's because, without the grace of God, the sinful man will never ever receive His precious gift that's called Faith. And without Faith, no one can please Him at all. And without Faith, no one will be justified in Jesus Christ.
---christan on 9/29/11


knowing that grace is an undeserved blessing tells us how much God loves us,so in part grace is merely a by product of Gods love,for God so loved the world that he gave his only son.
---tom2 on 9/29/11


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