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Right Here Part 3 October 2011

Finish It Here October 2011 (PART 3)
Another continuation of the blog for posting on topics of closed blogs.

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Young's Concordance- Marc

Your argument is with the respected Trinitarian scholar, not me. Gnash your teeth all you want, they're his words, not mine.

"Initially didn't quote all of Young"- Marc

Did you quote all of the LDS Bible Dictionary, Spencer Kimball and Bruce McConkie on the "Mormon" thread? 'How do you look in a mirror'? WInk, wink.

The entire section (#65) is one paragraph. (#64= 'Brother and Sister', #66='Spirit').

#65 begins: "God- is used of any one (professedly) mighty, whether truly so or not, and is applied not only to the true God, but to false gods, magistrates, judges, angels, prophets..." Then he lists every reference posted below.

Period.
---scott on 10/24/11


"You would have us believe that Young a Trinitarian, who believes Jesus is God, considered 'ho Theos' 'The God' in John 20:28 did not mean The God!" Warwick

Apparently so.

If you had a copy, or took the time to find it online, you would see that Young's comments (including the reference to John 20:28) are in the section at the very end of his Concordance (pg. 1092) entitled "Hints and Helps to Bible Interpretation." There he discusses 71 different topics including the one that you and Marc would like to see vanish.

If you ever get a copy make sure to remove page 1092 so that you can pretend that biblical scholar Robert Young agrees with you regarding Thomas' words at John 20:28.
---scott on 10/24/11


Jed 10/23 (Part 1/4)
Rocky, you are the one who said it and so you accuse yourself. You can't change what you said so stop trying to.
Wow. A new strategy. I proved you wrong on all your lies, distortions, and bogus attacks so now you just don't tell me, or anyone, what you are talking about so I can't respond. Ingenious. Said what? Change what? Of course all your other attacks were just as empty as these, now it is just more obvious you are attacking me about nothing. You amaze me. You keep finding new ways to prove how foolish you can be.
---Rocky on 10/23/11


Jed 10/23 (Part 2/4)
I think everyone on this site has caught on to your lies and twisting of scriptures, others posts, and even your own posts.
Oh you do do you? Amazing you now think you know what everyone on this site thinks and think you can speak for them all. But you continue with the vague general attacks as I pointed out repeatedly before. Nothing specific, or I could prove you wrong. But I am sure you are wrong again and most see it as a continuation of your lies and deceit.
---Rocky on 10/24/11


Rocky, of course what you say is never a distortion. That's why I said you were proclaiming to be the standard of Truth. You are the barometer by which all Christians should go by. Everyone distorts the Truth but you. You are the only honest Christian, and everyone else who believes the Word of God by faith are wrong, but you who questions the Word of God is right, because you never distort the Word of God, you just tell us which parts are true and which parts are not because the Holy Spirit reveals what is truth and what is not in the inspired Word of God that He Himself inspired. You speak of inerrant yet know nothing of what you are talking about. You are speaking of revise versions of the Bible and I am speaking of the Word of God.
---Mark_V. on 10/24/11




Perhaps if all the books of the Bible are equally inspired and inerrant, then it will be okay to pattern our behavior on the jihad morality found in Joshua or First Samuel. :)
---God.is.everywhere on 10/23/11


Rocky, you are the one who said it and so you accuse yourself. You can't change what you said so stop trying to. I think everyone on this site has caught on to your lies and twisting of scriptures, others posts, and even your own posts. I am curious about one thing. Since you don't hold the scriptures to be accurate, how can you use them to try to argue with other people? Even though you interpret them incorrectly and intentionally use them out of context, it seems odd that you would reference something that you yourself consider to be flawed.
---Jed on 10/23/11


Rob 10/23/11 (Part 1/2)
Because Rocky rejects the Bible is the true and accurate Word of God, this also means Rocky rejects CHRIST.
And the distortions continue. I never said I rejected the whole Bible or even a large part of it, which is what you statement implies. But to jump from your distorted statement to that means I reject Chirst is a marvel in bad logic, stupidity, and absurdity. There is absolutely no cause and effect there as you alleg. You only prove again how you distort and make false and vicious personal attacks to your own condemnation.
(continued)
---Rocky on 10/23/11


Rob 10/23/11 (Part 2/2)
Rocky also wrote that people are spreading lies about him...when in reality people are sharing the truth, .
No, you just proved in Part 1 again how gross are your distortions and lie. Pretty stupid to raise this issue after proving me right.
Also, you will notice that Rocky continues to avoid most of the questions I have asked him concerning Mormons, who they are, and what they believe
That is another lie. I answered most of the questions you asked and didnt answer only the few I didnt know. Wow, you attack me now for not knowing more about Mormonism. Just another sad example of the pathetic attacks I have been subjected too.
---Rocky on 10/23/11


Jed 10/23/11 (2/2)
Sounds to me that if you believe the Book of Mormon to be an acurate Word of God but not the Bible
I am not surprised it sounds that way to you. On post after post you have displayed a deep lack of ability for critical thinking and a great skill at lying and distorting. Part 1 of this post proves that again. There is no way a rational person would draw the faulty inference you made, nor would an honest one lie about it like you did. PLEASE STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH THEN ATTACKING ME FOR YOUR WORDS. In post after post you lie and distort. Wheres your honesty and honor, not to mention Christianity?
---Rocky on 10/23/11




Jed, you have made an excellent observation concerning Rocky.

Because Rocky rejects the Bible is the true and accurate Word of God, this also means Rocky rejects CHRIST, and who CHRIST IS, John 1:1-18.

Rocky also wrote that people are spreading lies about him and what he believes, when in reality people are sharing the truth, which Rocky hates, because it exposes him for who he truly is.

Also, you will notice that Rocky continues to avoid most of the questions I have asked him concerning Mormons, who they are, and what they believe.
---Rob on 10/23/11


Scot, you wrote "trinitarian Young states:

"65. God-is used of any one (professedly) mighty, whether truly so or not, and is applied not only to the true God, but to ... magistrates, judges, angels, prophets, etc., e.g. Exod. 7:1...John 1:1, 10:33, 34, 35, 20:28...2 Thess. 2:4..."

You would have us believe that Young a Trinitarian, who believes Jesus is God, considered 'ho Theos' 'The God' in John 20:28 did not mean The God!

Interestingly Bullingers Lexicon and Concordance says in NT times the Greek 'Theos' had lost its meaning of the one God, "Hence it became necessary to distinguish it by the article 'Ho Theos.,'" Just as it is used directly of Jesus in John 20:28.
---Warwick on 10/23/11


Scott,

You exhibit an inveterate dishonesty: initially you didn't quote all of Young. And you still continue to pass off that Young was saying ALL those verses don't refer to God, my original point. Warwick makes that criticism much clearer than I. I even listed some of Young's verses which clearly MUST refer to God, but you chose to ignore them.

Some of Young's verses in fact can ONLY apply to God, as your New World [Mis]Translation states. So to write, as you do, that Young was saying that John 20:28 was NOT saying Jesus is God, is to beg that question. That is, prove that Young was saying that Thomas' ''The God of me'' wasn't about Jesus!
---Marc on 10/23/11


MarkV 10/23/11 (1/3)
You support prophets for today on other blogs because of the Mormon prophets.
That is wrong in many ways. First, I don't know if there are any prophets today or who they are. All I said was John's statement in Revelations does not prove there are no more after him and Ephesians clearly states that the early church had them after Jesus departed. Second, my beliefs on this issue are based on the Bible, not the Mormon religion. Third, I don't believe Mormon prophets were true prophets. PLEASE STOP MAKING UP WORDS AND PUTTING THEM IN MY MOUTH THEN ATTACKING ME FOR YOUR WORDS.. YOU AND OTHERS HAVE DONE IT REPEATEDLY.
(continued)
---Rocky on 10/23/11


MarkV 10/23/11 (2/3)
You believe there is lies in the Word of God because the Morman's have another book that they say reveals the Truth.
That's another bold-faced lie. First, as I have also pointed out MANY times, it is VERY misleading to say someone does not believe the Word of God because they recognize the Bible is not inerrant, but you persist in this bogus attack. Second, that belief has nothing to do with the Book of Mormon but the internal inconsistencies and ambiguities in the Bible and known issues associated with the process of translating and compiling it.
PLEASE STOP MAKING UP WORDS AND PUTTING THEM IN MY MOUTH THEN ATTACKING ME FOR YOUR WORDS.
(continued)
---Rocky on 10/23/11


MarkV 10/23/11 (3/3)
So that the Bible is true only when it agrees with the Book of Mormon.
I never said that and don't believe it. I don't believe in the Book of Mormon as Mormons do and never said otherwise..
PLEASE STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH THEN ATTACKING ME FOR YOUR WORDS.
Another thing about Mormonism, they brain-wash peoples minds.
That is a very childish, foolish, and unChristian attack with absolutely no evidence or support. Again you prove how low you can go and that you are not worthy of any respect.
All you have done this entire post is lie, put words in my mouth to attack me for, and post vicious lies about another Christian religion.
---Rocky on 10/23/11


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Jed 10/23/11 (1/2)
Do Mormons believe the Book of Mormon is the accurate Word of God?
An accurate word of God.
---Rocky on 10/22/11
So Rocky, you have said repeatedly on this site that the Bible is not an inerrant or acurate Word of God. But now you say that the Book of Mormon is.

Unbelievable? Are you really that stupid? You correctly quoted me saying that Mormons believe the Book of Mormon is true. Then apparently based on that you state "But now you say the Book of Mormon is [true]. No, I never said that. AGAIN You lie and distort. I CHALLENGE YOU TO SHOW ANYPLACE I SAID THAT.
(continued)
---Rocky on 10/23/11


Yet you avoid and won't amswer the questions I asked about Mormons and what they believe.
I ask you once again, why won't you answer those questions?
--Rob 10/23/11
I tried to answer the questions I could and left the ones I could not or was not sure of. I don't want to provide bad information like so many others have here. Its been about 40 years since I left the Mormon church so my memory is a bit hazy even on some of the things I used to know. I am shocked to find so many on this site so full of bad information about Mormons and so anxious to distort things about and attack them. Not Christian behavior at all.
---Rocky on 10/23/11


I will not be responding to anything else you post.
Jed on 10/20/21
Why did you ever say you were not going to respond to my posts when you prove again that too is an obvious lie?
--Rocky 10/22/11
Jed, you never answered the question and I am still curious. You have made 6 responses just on the Government Controlling Churches thread and now one this thread since you said you would not respond to my posts. Why did you ever make such a statement when you obviously had little intent to follow it?
---Rocky on 10/23/11


You might be interested to know that the Community of Christ (RLDS) no longer requires its members to recognize the Book of Mormon as inspired scripture.
---God.is.everywhere on 10/23/11


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Do Mormons believe the Book of Mormon is the accurate Word of God?
An accurate word of God.
---Rocky on 10/22/11

So Rocky, you have said repeatedly on this site that the Bible is not an inerrant or acurate Word of God. But now you say that the Book of Mormon is. Yet you claim to no longer be a mormon? Sounds to me that if you believe the Book of Mormon to be an acurate Word of God but not the Bible, then you are still a mormon rather than a Christian.
---Jed on 10/23/11


"Scott SELECTIVELY misquote...SELECTIVELY cites verses from Young...""

Obviously Marc doesn't have or hasn't taken two seconds to find a free, online version of Young's Analytical Concordance.

Please explain how I have been "selective" when I have posted the entire quote from "Hints and Helps of Bible Interpretation", under "God" (#65, pg 1092.)

Every single word, letter, comma and period.

Anyone, anyone?
---scott on 10/23/11


"Shame!...Scott SELECTIVELY misquotes from trinitarian Young's Concordance:" Marc (2)



(Pg 1092, #65, under "God") - Continued...

"Psa. 8. 5 , 45. 6 , 82. 1, 6 , 97. 7, 9 , 136. 2 , Matt. 1. 23, John 1. 1, 10. 33, 34, 35, 20. 28, Acts 7. 40, 43, 59, 12. 22, 14. n , 17. 18, 23 , 19. 26 , 20. 28 , 28. 6 , Rom. 9. 5 , 1 Co. 8. 5 , Phil. 3. 19 , 2 Th. 2. 4 , 1 Ti. 3. 16 , Titus 2. 13 , Heb. 1. 8 , 2 Pe. 1. 1 , 1 Jo. 3. 16 , 5. 20.

I patiently await Marc's (and Warwick's) apology.
---scott on 10/23/11


Scott SELECTIVELY misquotes from trinitarian Young's Concordance: '''God' is used of any one (professedly) mighty, whether truly so or not, and is applied not only to the true God, but to ... magistrates, judges, angels, prophets, etc.''

Scott SELECTIVELY cites verses from Young, including Thomas' declaration to Jesus ''The God of me''. With the help of ellipses, cut-and-paste master Scott dishonestly implies ALL the omitted verses are not referring to God. However, even in the NW[mis]T, Young's omitted, by Scott, 1John 5:20, Acts 20:28, Rom 9:5, 2Peter 1:1 definitely refer to God.

In any case Young was a trinitarian.
---Marc on 10/23/11


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Rocky, those doctrinal differences are major. They include the message of Christ, who He is. You support prophets for today on other blogs because of the Mormon prophets. You believe there is lies in the Word of God because the Morman's have another book that they say reveals the Truth. So that the Bible is true only when it agrees with the Book of Mormon. So you really haven't left the Mormons, you are just hiding as if you did, this way you can mingle with everyone as if you were not one. I believe everyone caught on to that since you have, "as you say" people distort everything, but not you. Another thing about Mormonism, they brain-wash peoples minds.
---Mark_V. on 10/23/11


Rocky, several times you stated others won't answer your questions.

Yet you avoid and won't amswer the questions I asked about Mormons and what they believe.

I ask you once again, why won't you answer those questions?
---Rob on 10/23/11


--Elder 10/21/11 (Part 3/3) Friendship With A Married Man
Or, were you just trying to be helpful. I hope you were because that would appear to be one in a row for you.
And despite all or your prior bogus attacks on the poster and myself, you choose to throw in a parting shot. It is clear who is the one here not trying to be helpful, but making repeated bogus attacks. Again, I merely wrote one line showing your condemnation of the poster was out of line and you respond with a long paragraph falsely attacking me. I can't believe how many posters on this Christian site engage in gross distortions and wrongful attacks on others like yours.
---Rocky on 10/23/11


1)All people of faith - Christians, Jews, Muslims, animists, everyone knows the same God. -Rocky on 10/14/11
2)Rocky, I guess you are going to say the "place" you were referring to is not heaven?
Jim on 10/21/11
1)I don't recall the context of that comment. What thread was that one on?
2)As I said on another thread, I was referring to a path to salvation through Jesus.
---Rocky on 10/23/11


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--Elder 10/21/11 (Part 1/3)
Rocky, that is quite a condemnation you gave me since I did say it "appears."
I did not say this was sinful but that it appears sinful.

Let's honestly quote the full sentence from your prior post:
"This blogger appears to be up to no good and is seeking approval for her sinful actions."
Clearly "appears" only applies to your accusation she's "up to no good". The "and" connects two phrases each of which begins with a verb - "appears" and "is" so "appears" does not apply to the second phrase, else it would be like saying "The blogger appears is seeking approval" which makes no sense.
(continued)
---Rocky on 10/23/11


--Elder 10/21/11 (Part 2/3)Friendship With Married Man
Thus you wrote she "is seeking approval for her sinful actions" not "she appears is seeking", and that despite her statement "the friendship is genuine and pure".
Regardless, using the weasel word "appears" doesn't justify making an accusation out of nothing, nor absolve you for it.
But, then again you appear sinful with your quick "condemnation" of me.
I condemned you? Where? I merely wrote one line showing your condemnation of the poster was out-of-line You said she sinned, where did I say anything like that about you? You're guilty of gross exaggeration to make a wrongful attack on me. Shame on you not me.(continued)
---Rocky on 10/23/11


"Shame!...Scott SELECTIVELY misquotes from trinitarian Young's Concordance:" Marc (1)

Young's Concordance is available as a pdf, free, online.

Decide for yourselves who is 'shamefully' misrepresenting the truth. The quote in it's entirety (pg 1092, #65, under "God"), says (punctuation in context):

"God- is used of any one (professedly) mighty, whether truly so
or not, and is applied not only to the true God, but to false gods, magistrates,
judges, augels, prophets, & c, e.g.- Exod. 7. 1 , 15. n , 21. 6, 22. 8, 9 , 32. 8, 22, 31 , Deut. 10. 17 , Judg. 8. 33 , 9. 9, 13 , 13. 21, 22 , 16. 23 , 1 Sa. 2. 25 , 28. 13, 1 Ki. 11. 33 , 2 Ki. 1. 2, 3, 19. 37,

...

Continued
---scott on 10/22/11


MarkV 10/22/11 (Part 3 of 3)
If they were so right, you would have never left.
Finally you get one thing right. I left because I didn't believe in everything they do.
But I will defend them, like I'd defend anyone, from people who lie about them and their beliefs. Every good Christian would likewise defend others from false witness. Some, like in the parable of the Good Samaritan, go further and extend themselves to help aid others, even others from different groups that their own group reviles.
It's sad that you don't realize that what you have in common, faith in Jesus, his message, and salvation through him, is much more important than doctrinal differences.
---Rocky on 10/22/11


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Scott,

Someone has been using my name accidently or purposely. I didn't write anything about John 8.
---Marc on 10/22/11


The washing, put away, cease, learn, seek, relieve, judge, plead, come and reason, et al, God so made man that capable. Why would he ask? To show that we are incapable?
To whom?
christan would have christ and god in a room to teach them proper comunication! How foolish and sad!
Go off on this christan:
Isaiah 1:19 "If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it."
Don't it just kill you: "If ye be willing and obedient" and " if ye refuse and rebel" that God speaks unlike you?
---nana on 10/22/11


Rob 10/21/11 Part 2 of 2
Why do Mormons call themselves Mormons and not CHRISTIANS?
They call themselves Christians and "saints", the latter referring to the name applied to followers of Jesus after his death in the NT. They usually add "latter-day" to saints to distinguish from those in the NT. Most often they call themselves "LDS", short for "Latter-day saints". "Mormons" is a name applied by others which Mormons sometimes use because of its common usage.
---Rocky on 10/22/11


MarkV 10/22/11 (Part 2 of 3)
Their faith is in another Jesus, not the One from Scripture.
That is a lie.
Mormons are not Christian's because they are a cult.
First that statement is stupid and faulty reasoning. Being a cult does not make or prove one is not a Christian. There have been numerous Christian cults throughout history. Second, as I have explained many times, Mormons meet the definition of being Christians.
(continued)
---Rocky on 10/22/11


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MarkV 10/22/11 (Part 1 of 3)
No one here is telling the truth as far as you are concern, only you tell the truth.
That is an obvious exaggeration that PROVES you have little interest in truth but distort truth in order to attack me. It casts a cloud over your credibility and everything else written in your post.
you just don't believe that the word of God is really truth, but what you say is.
That is a lie. I have said many times, including in responses to your post, that I believe the word of God, and never contradicted that. I clearly pointed out that I do not believe the Bible is inerrant, but many Christians share that belief.
(continued)
---Rocky on 10/22/11


"I AM is what is translated here [Jn 8:58] as 'Jehovah'" Marc

Really? Exactly what translation is Marc using?

The divine name does not appear at Jn 8:58.

Additionally it is trinitarian special pleading to connect Jn 8:58 with Ex 3:14.

The JPS Tanakh, Jewish Study Bible, Oxford Edition says:

"God's proper name, disclosed in the next verse [15], is YHVH...

...here [vs 14] God first tells Moses its meaning, ehyeh-asher-ehyeh, probably best translated as "I will be what I will be" meaning: "My nature will become evident from my actions." JPS Tanakh, Jewish Study Bible, Oxford Edition.

NOT "I am".
---scott on 10/22/11


"Eg, when God commanded man, "Be ye holy, for I am holy." Please then explain to us how do you make yourself Holy when you are dead in the state of sin?"
christan on 10/16/11
Isaiah 1:16_18 "Wash you, make you clean, put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes, cease to do evil,
Learn to do well, seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow, though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool."
---Nana on 10/22/11


Sorry, I will endeavor to keep Jim and JIM separate and to use the correct capitalization. How silly of me not to make the distinction.
--Rocky 10/21/11
You're trying to make it sound like I'm saying things that JIM said. Just admit you made a mistake.
--Jim 10/21/11
OK I already apologized once below but I will apologize again. And No, I am not intentionally make it sound like you said what JIM really said. Sorry for the HUGE error in mixing up JIM and Jim. What a heinous crime. How could anyone make such a HUGE mistake.
---Rocky on 10/22/11


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Rob 10/21/11 Part 1 of 2
believe with all my heart, mind, and soul what is written in Galatians 2:19-21. Once again you have proven you don't believe and reject this passage of scripture.
No I have not. And you have shown no such thing.
Do Mormons believe the Book of Mormon is the accurate Word of God?
An accurate word of God.
(continued)
---Rocky on 10/22/11


Marc, thanks for that information on Clement. Scott is quite deceitful.

Recently Scott posted a quote from Young's Concordance regarding John 20:28 which says 'God' "is applied not only to the true God, but to ... magistrates, judges, angels, prophets, etc., e.g. Exod. 7:1 ... John 1:1, 10:33, 34, 35, 20:28 ..." Scott claims Young gives ".John 20:28 as an example of God (or god) being applied to someone other than the true God." Nonsense! Young gives examples of different uses of 'god/God' which in context have different meanings. Young does not say John 20:28 is an instance where it does not mean The God. The fact the Greek of 20:28 is 'Ho Theos' means Thomas called Jesus-The God.

Incompetence or deceit!
---Warwick on 10/22/11


Rocky, why is everyone distorting the truth against you? No one here is telling the truth as far as you are concern, only you tell the truth. And even when Scripture is given to you, you find that truth wrong also. I believe this happens because you just don't believe that the word of God is really truth, but what you say is. Mormons are not Christian's because they are a cult. Their faith is in another Jesus, not the One from Scripture. If they were so right, you would have never left.
---Mark_V. on 10/22/11


Rocky..// The word "substance" means to have confidence. An assurance.
In 1 John 5, Johns says he writes these things to we who believe in the Son of God so that we will know that we have eternal life.
I know i do.
---JIM on 10/21/11


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Rocky, I am a CHRISTIAN!

I believe with all my heart, mind, and soul what is written in Galatians 2:19-21. Once again you have proven you don't believe and reject this passage of scripture.

Also, why do you avoid answering the questions I asked earlier regarding Mormons not believing Christ is God, who humbled Himself and took on the form of humanity.

Do Mormons believe the Book of Mormon is the accurate Word of God?

Do Mormons believe there are Spirits floating around, waiting to posses a human body?

Why do Mormons call themselve Mormons and not CHRISTIANS?
---Rob on 10/21/11


Rocky, stop purposely editing JIM's name to Jim when you quote him in your posts just because I corrected your error. You're trying to make it sound like I'm saying things that JIM said. Just admit you made a mistake.
---Jim on 10/21/11


I believe that there are many paths to the same place. -Rocky on 10/13/11

All people of faith -Christians, Jews, Muslims, animists, everyone knows the same God. -Rocky on 10/14/11

Rocky, I guess you are going to say the "place" you were referring to is not heaven?
---Jim on 10/21/11


Dishonest cut-and-paste master Scott tries to pass off the early Church fathers as earliest Watchtower salesmen. Scott misrepresents Clement by omitting 99% of what Clement wrote in this section. Eg, from the same chapter of 'The Instructor': ''But our Instructor is the holy God Jesus, the Word, who is the guide of all humanity. The loving God Himself is our Instructor...''I am the Lord thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt. According to Clement, Jesus is Jehovah.

Beware: Scott is rewriting history. Clement was no Arian but a fully paid-up Trinitarian.

Scott: Shame, shame, shame!!

As for your Irenaeus quotes, can't find it using your reference. Is that because you cut and paste without checking sources?
---Marc on 10/21/11


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I can't imagine going through life hoping to find salvation. That just proves you are lacking faith.
--Jim on 10/21/11
All it proves is that you are just blowing one word way out of proportion to try to justify an attack on me. And doing a terrible job of it.
Heb_11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
So I guess you cant imagine anyone believing Heb 11:1.
---Rocky on 10/21/11


Rocky...you said:"I think Christians believe Jesus is the Messiah prophesied in the OT through whom we hope to find salvation."

I can't imagine going through life hoping to find salvation. That just proves you are lacking faith.
The writer of Hebrews says without faith it is impossible to please God.
Rocky...God will give you more faith...just ask Him.
---JIM on 10/21/11


Rocky...you can not show me where i said someones salvation is predestined.
--Jim 10/21/11
No I can't, which is why in my post I wrote "(It assumes you believe salvation is predestined, if you don't, just say so.)". And now you have. I only asked you because many that believe in salvation by grace only also believe in predestination.
---Rocky on 10/21/11


Rocky...you can not show me where i said someones salvation is predestined. To a point you are predestined...you will go to heaven or hell. You are predestined to go to one or the other.
---JIM on 10/21/11


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Marc, Too bad we ran out of space, but you cited Jn.8.58
where Jesus said "Before Abraham was I am...I am translated as Jehovah" Wrong Marc the word is "EIMI " used throughout the NT to simply state "I am, I was, I existed etc..
God said (EX 6.3)"hayah" part of the meaning of His name (YHVH) "I am that I am,I will be whatsoever I will be,I shall become whatsoever I become..."
Trinitarians try this smoke screen!About as shakey as Thomas' exclamation "My Lord and My God" I hear it constantly everywhere when someone is taken aback or surprised "Oh my god"!
Grasping at straws?
---1st_cliff on 10/21/11


So please provide the definitive criteria for determining who or what is Christian.
---Rocky on 10/21/11
Rocky...I find that christians believe in the Jesus Christ who is God. Who has always existed. For all things where created by Him and For Him.
--JIM 10/21/11
I think Christians believe Jesus is the Messiah prophesied in the OT through whom we hope to find salvation through love and faith in his message and his atoning death on the cross. I think those criteria are much more important in defining what a Christian is than the ones you listed. And Mormons qualify as Christians.
---Rocky on 10/21/11


--JIM 10/21/11 (Part 1 of 4)
After reading them i realized that you do not seem to have Faith that Jesus paid in full the price for your sins.Otherwise you would not say the ridiculous comment" all commandments cease for you and you can do what you want".
THAT IS A GROSS DISTORTION. I have asked questions before of those believing in salvation by grace only to better define exactly what that person meant. Getting only a vague response, I presented you three alternatives and asking if one of these was the intent. Now you pick one of them and quote it as my belief. Unbelievable.
(continued)
---Rocky on 10/21/11


--JIM 10/21/11 (Part 4 of 4)
Also you still never responded to another question in the same post that goes to the question of salvations and predestination. (It assumes you believe salvation is predestined, if you dont just say so.) "Why did God even bother to create an Earth and bring you here if you were saved already?"
---Rocky on 10/21/11


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Rocky...I find that christians believe in the Jesus Christ who is God. Who has always existed. For all things where created by Him and For Him.
---JIM on 10/21/11


I did so much copy, pasting then deleting to fit the 125 limit... things get a bit jumbled some times.
---chria9396 on 10/21/11
Yes I have the same problem, very often. It is very difficult to have a real discussion about complex subjects with the 125 word limit. Makes this more a board of sound bites than real discussion. And then you have to waste time trying to edit a comment down to fit into the limit. I sure wish they would increase the limit, at least to 200 words.
---Rocky on 10/21/11


We could go on, but hopefully you get the picture.
--JIM on 10/21/11
No, I don't get the picture. You can't say who is not a Christian until you define what a Christian is. So please provide the definitive criteria for determining who or what is Christian.
---Rocky on 10/21/11


Sorry, I will endeavor to keep Jim and JIM separate and to use the correct capitalization. How silly of me not to make the distinction.
---Rocky on 10/21/11


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Sorry Rocky, I'm a little slow. I saw your questions. After reading them i realized that you do not seem to have Faith that Jesus paid in full the price for your sins.Otherwise you would not say the ridiculous comment" all commandments cease for you and you can do what you want".
Rocky...are you aware that if you put your faith in Jesus you receive forgiveness of all sin?
It doesn't give you a license to sin, but what you do not seem to get is that God remembers our sin no more. When He sees us He sees Jesus' righteousness.
---JIM on 10/21/11


Jim// I am Jim, with only the first letter capitalized, which is the correct way to type your name.\\

Sorry Jim that i did not type it correctly.
You must be a educated man.

And Rocky...I would probably say a morman is not a christian. Why????
1) christians do not believe that God was once a man
2) christians do not believe that they can become like God
or become god.
We could go on, but hopefully you get the picture.
---JIM on 10/21/11


The righteous living is because of our salvation not something that you have to do to receive salvation.
Jim 10/21/11
And for the fourth time you evade answering the simple questions I asked of you on 10/17 on "Is Salvation A Gift".
---Rocky on 10/21/11


Haz27: "And its the sin of UNBELIEF in Jesus that the world will be convicted of, John16:9

And Jesus's comandment to us 1John3:23 "we should BELIEVE on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment."

As for our own works at "living a righteous life", even Paul rejected this saying in Phil 3:9 "not having my own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith"."
Amen!
---chria9396 on 10/21/11


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Rocky, "I think you meant John 6:28-29 rather than Matthew" You're right, glad you caught that. I did so much copy, pasting then deleting to fit the 125 limit... things get a bit jumbled some times.
---chria9396 on 10/21/11


Rocky//that one must lead a righteous life for salvation.\\

Rocky...so you still think you yourself can add something to merit your salvation. Nothing you could ever do would be good enough.
The righteous living is because of our salvation not something that you have to do to receive salvation.

Besides....if you are of the morman faith than everything is clear. You use the same lingo, but you believe in a created jesus.
I believe in the Jesus Christ who has always existed.There was never a time when He was not. Scripture clearly says"that all things were created by Him and for Him".
---JIM on 10/21/11


From reading other posts from Rocky he sounds as if he is of the morman faith.
---Jim 10/12/11
Wrong.. If you read all my posts regarding Mormons you would have read that I was a member but am not now, to which I will add that I have not been for 40 years. Why do you assume I am one just because I know about them and correct the many mistakes posted on this board about them? To the contrary, it would be wrong to let the errors go uncorrected.
---Rocky on 10/21/11


I can only assume you're upset because in another series of posts I proved you were wrong to say Mormons are not Christians. Instead of responding to those facts, and because I proved your slander about Mormons wrong, you chose to slander me here. What despicable, UNCHRISTIAN behavior. You only proved you're not a good Christian.
---Rocky on 10/21/11

I've never posted a single word about mormons not being christian. In fact, I've never posted anything about mormons. Please Don't confuse me with JIM (in all caps). I am Jim, with only the first letter capitalized, which is the correct way to type your name. I was here before JIM was.
---Jim on 10/21/11


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From reading other posts from Rocky he sounds as if he is of the morman faith.
Which I find to be a false faith. There is something terribly wrong with a faith that believes you can become a god.
---JIM on 10/21/11


chria9396, yes, our works are to BELIEVE on Jesus (John6:28,29), as you said.

And its the sin of UNBELIEF in Jesus that the world will be convicted of, John16:9

And Jesus's comandment to us 1John3:23 "we should BELIEVE on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment."

As for our own works at "living a righteous life", even Paul rejected this saying in Phil 3:9 "not having my own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith".
---Haz27 on 10/21/11


Mat 6: 28-29 "Then they asked him, What must we do to do the works God requires? Jesus answered, The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."
---chria9396 10/20/11
I think you meant John 6:28-29 rather than Matthew. This might also be a place where translation differences are important. KJV has:
Joh 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
(continued)
---Rocky on 10/21/11


Rocky has already posted on other threads that he believes there are many paths to heaven, not just those who believe in Jesus. I don't think Rocky believes strictly in christianity.
---Jim 10/20/11
That is a DESPICABLE LIE and you know it. I posted that there are many paths to Jesus not to heaven, I've repeatedly confirmed my faith in Jesus and NEVER said otherwise. I can only assume you're upset because in another series of posts I proved you were wrong to say Mormons are not Christians. Instead of responding to those facts, and because I proved your slander about Mormons wrong, you chose to slander me here. What despicable, UNCHRISTIAN behavior. You only proved you're not a good Christian.
---Rocky on 10/21/11


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Rob 10/20/11 - continued 3
Mormons believe the Book of Mormon, which was written by Joseph Smith, is the only accurate word of God, because they reject the Bible as being the true Word of God. .
That is a lie. Mormons do not reject the Bible. Many Christians, including Mormons, believe that the Bible is the word of God in so far as it is translated correctly and do not hold that it is inerrant.
(Parts 1,2 & 4 on previous thread)
---Rocky on 10/21/11


Jim,
I made an error in my earlier response to your post, confusing you with Rob. I did not have an issue with you about the Mormons, but we engaged in several posts about whether or not works are required for salvation. Despite several requests you never responded to the simple questions I asked on 10/17 on the other thread.
I apologize for my error in confusing you with Rob, but still your previous accusation is a despicable lie and a sad response to my position that one must lead a righteous life for salvation. Apparently you can't show that wrong so you attack me instead. Unfortunately, that is a pretty common behavior on this site.
---Rocky on 10/21/11


Rocky has already posted on other threads that he believes there are many paths to heaven, not just those who believe in Jesus. I don't think Rocky believes strictly in christianity. On other threads he has encouraged Christians to learn Islam, Hinduism, and Mormonism.
---Jim on 10/20/11


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