ChristiaNet MallWorld's Largest Christian MallChristian BlogsFree Bible QuizzesFree Ecards and Free Greeting CardsLoans, Debt, Business and Insurance Articles

Does The Old Covenant Apply

Is the Old Covenant laws applicable to Christians? If not, why not?

Join Our Free Penpals and Take The Ten Commandments Bible Quiz
 ---lee1538 on 10/21/11
     Helpful Blog Vote (2)

Post a New Blog



Lee you are correct, the moral law involves relationships, as every one of the 10 Commandments does.

Withdrawing from our everyday lives, relaxing in a day of rest, focussing upon our Creator is about ultimate relationship with He who made us. He who went to extraordinary lengths to save us from ourselves.

In the busyness of the working week we often have little time to contemplate God. However on our day of rest we have time aplenty. You should try it.
---Warwick on 10/26/11


Francis, it seems like you continue to avoid answering if those who break (don't keep) the Sabbath, are they sinning, and according to the LAW, what is to be done to these people?

Francis, why do you continue to avoid answering these questions?
---Rob on 10/26/11


One can believe the Genesis account of creation and not even consider the Sabbath commandment. -lee1538 on 10/25/
IMPOSIBLE
The genesis account of creation includes the sabbath.

Genesis 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
---Francis on 10/26/11


Warwick, your response confirmed my suspicion that you don't observe the Sabbath as your supposed to. And you may have even got the day wrong.
Therefore you are "wilfully", "habitually", breaking the 10 commandments and guilty of all in fact and your salvation is very doubtlful.

This is what I understand you claim in your doctrine.
---Haz27 on 10/25/11


Francis //ONLY the sabbath commmandment tells us who God is: He is THE CREATOR of Heaven and earth and all that is in them.

One can believe the Genesis account of creation and not even consider the Sabbath commandment. "In the beginning God created...."

The FACT remains there is virtually NOTHING that commands or even recommends the Christian has to observe the Sabbath or any day of the week.

While Gordon would suggest the early church erred in not observing the Sabbath, he fails to realize the early Gentile church was established by the Apostles and their immediate successor who did NOT teach Sabbath observance.

Suggest you go back and study your Bible again and see if I am not correct on this issue.
---lee1538 on 10/25/11




Haz, you fail to to discern the difference between Christians who sin and repent (most of us) and those who willingly, persistently, habitually, live contrary to God's will. Read 1 John 2:1.

God commands we honour our parents, not only if they are perfect, but to do so, full stop. Has this been done away with in your law-free theology Haz?

I did not always honour my parents and have repented of it.

But what of the Christian who persistently, willingly, as a habit, fails to honour his parents?

To which of these Christians was 1 John 2:1 written?
---Warwick on 10/25/11


Lee, so as to descend to the particular let us look at Revelation 14:12 "Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus."

Do I have it right that you claim "the commandments of God" do not include the 10 Commandments? Maybe it should be rendered "those who keep some of the commandments of God."

If this is what you claim you must be saying I am free to commit adultery, for example. It is a popular adult sport. Do you say that I, a Christian, am free to take part?

If not what are you saying?
---Warwick on 10/25/11


Haz, I set Sunday aside from my usual working day, to worship God, and to rest. If this is or is not acceptable to God has nothing to do with your approval.

I acknowledge that we, as to our flesh, are sinful creatures. We know what we should do and don't do it. And know what we shouldn't do but do it.

However as John says "My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous."

God knows the heart, as no one else does, knowing if we aim to live as He commands, but fail. Apparently you don't fail but the rest of us do!

But we have advocate with the Father!
---Warwick on 10/25/11


ONLY the sabbath commmandment tells us who God is:
He is THE CREATOR of Heaven and earth and all that is n them.

It is the ONLY commandment that establishes THE relationshiop between God and MAN

THE SABBATH establishes that God is OUR CREATOR and WE are his creation. That is the PRIMARY RELATIOSHIP and REASON FOR WORSHIP!!!

Jonah 1:9 I fear the LORD, the God of heaven, which hath made the sea and the dry [land].
Romans 1:25 THEY worshipped and served the creature more than the CREATOR,

Psalms 124:8 Our help is in the name of the LORD, who made heaven and earth.

Revelation 14:7 Fear God, and give glory to him, and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
---Francis on 10/25/11


Warwick -People accused me of being puffed up before, howbeit, as a profession systems analyst I examine everything.

Those verses in 1 John 2:3, Rev. 12:17 & 14:12 do NOT have the Decalogue in view.

"While Luke used the Greek word commandment (entole) to refer to the Sabbath commandment, John always uses the word Law (nomos) when referring to OC law. When he uses the word commandment (entole) it NEVER refers to the OC law and usually refers to the NC law of love." P. 374-5, Sabbath in Christ, by Dale Ratzlaff.

Suggest you review your Greek on this.

Yes, I would challenge the legalist/cultist on these issues as I have seen far too many good Christian people having the spirit sucked right out of them.
---lee1538 on 10/25/11




Warwick: You have so far avoided my numerous attempts to get you to explain what you do to keep the Sabbath holy.
Are you hiding your own failure at keeping the Sabbath holy as described in scripture?

Then why do you push your doctrine of keeping the 10 commandments when you don't keep them and are guilty of all of them?
---Haz27 on 10/25/11


Lee we don't disagree about the church being under a new covenant. I earlier stated that the old covenant is found in Exodus 19 where God agreed to be their God and they agreed to be his people and do all that God said. That is the Old covenant.
You think that under the new covenant that there are no laws, and I know that under the new covenant God will but his LAWS inour hearts and minds

Hebrews 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

and ALL TEN COMMANDMENTS are commanded in the books of the New testement
---Francis on 10/25/11


Warwick:
Francis said "When anyone chooses not to keep the sabbath and to make another day his sabbath, he is living IN SIN and not worshiping God"

It would seem that according to legalistic doctrine you are living in sin in 2 ways just regarding the Sabbath alone.
1: You keep the wrong day Sabbath according the Francis
2: Your avoidance of telling us what you do to keep the Sabbath holy suggests you don't observe the Sabbath in the manner scriptures states you should.

So we see you're living a lifestyle of sin just on the Sabbath alone. Hence you stand condemned by your doctrine. This is frustraing the grace of God, Gal 2:21
---Haz27 on 10/25/11


Lee, you are puffed up with your own self-importance considering yourself a Bible scholar, a man of super intellect. I make no such claims. And Mark likewise.

I quoted 1 John 2:3, and Revelation 12:17 and 14:12 which say "keep the commandments of God..."

You would have us believe that these 'commandments' do not include the 10 Commandments and are therefore some unexplaind commanndments of God which the saved are to "Keep."

You seem to be paranoid about keeping the Sabbath. Would doing so hinder your worldly lifestyle maybe?
---Warwick on 10/25/11


Warwick //Why then do people say we can disobey God's moral law?

And what exactly is moral law? Law that involves relationships! All other types of the Law (singular) are either ceremonial, or civic.

But we find in the Decalogue a law that does not involve relationships, namely the Sabbath commandment.

Do you suppose that is why God did not require it of Christians saying in Romans 14:5-6 that in regarding any day "Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind."
---lee1538 on 10/25/11


Lee, you wrote:

"Christians follow Christ for their eternal salvation and walk" as though this somehow contradicts what I have written! If we follow Jesus we must know He said the law would stand, as is, until "heaven and earth disappear" Matthew 5:18.
Lee, what is this "law" of which He speaks?

Does having "the Spirit working within us" mean we can disregard this law? .

Our "righteousness is in Christ", indeed, but does that give us freedom to willingly, continually, as a habit, reject God's law? Or should we, when saved, in gratitude follow Jesus who followed the law?

Maybe you should consider Acts 26:24?
---Warwick on 10/25/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Accounting


Francis - our disagreement is in the fact the church is under the New Covenant and not the Old, the New not being a re-hash of Old. If it were then we would certainly see that taught in the early church by the Apostles and their immediate successor but we do not.

If you truly believe that the New Covenant reflects the Old Covenant law THEN you should observe all of God's laws found in the Old Covenant, not just a selected few that serve no purpose except to cause dissention among Christians.

In other words you should "You observe days and months and seasons and years" (Gal.4.10) as well as "turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more" (4:9)
---lee1538 on 10/25/11


Exodus 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, NOR THY STRANGER that is within thy gates:

1 Kings 8:41 Moreover concerning a STRANGER, that is NOT OF THY PEOPLE Israel, but cometh out of a far country for thy name's sake, when he shall come and pray toward this house, Hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place, and do according to all that the stranger calleth to thee for:
Isaiah 56:6 Also the sons of the STRANGER, that join themselves to the LORD, EVERY ONE that keepeth the sabbath and taketh hold of my covenant, ..for mine house shall be called an HOUSE OF PRAYER FOR ALL PEOPLE.

NOPTHING SPIRITUAL IN THE BIBLE IS FOR JEWS ONLY
---Francis on 10/25/11


Mark, I have explained it over and over again but you do not comprehend the difference between saved by grace, by faith, by the finished work of Jesus upon the cross and how we should live after receiving God's gift.

Step 1) Saved by faith, not works. 2) But how do we then live, do we live as the world does, as we did before we were saved?

By whose standards do we live? Where do we turn to find these standards?

In Matthew 2236-40 Jesus says all the law and prophets is summed up in loving God wholeheartedly, and loving our fellow man.

In Matthew 5:18 Jesus says absolutely nothing will change in the law until "heaven and earth disappear."

Why then do people say we can disobey God's moral law?
---Warwick on 10/25/11


Gordon //It doesn't matter if the whole Church disregarded the Sabbath. They'd've been wrong for doing so.

That is ALSO the contention of Joseph Smith & Company, namely that the Holy Spirit was unable or unwilling to keep the church from becoming corrupt and that they were the ones sent by God to reform His church.

In Joe's case, the Book of Mormon, et al become scripture along with the Bible and for the SDA, the writings of the divine Ellen White were put on the same shelf as the Bible.

Yes, Let all men be liars, but, GOD remains True. And He has and will perserve His saints.
---lee1538 on 10/25/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Fundraisers


Warwick //Now over to you who say God's commandments are not to be followed. What do you say to these Scriptures?

Christians follow Christ for their eternal salvation and walk. Scripture is very clear our salvation is by faith alone (Eph. 2:8), works we do are really the Spirit working within us. (2:10)

While we are to walk by faith (Romans 1:17, Gal. 3,11) believing our righteousness is in Christ (1 Cor. 1:30,Romans 3,21), that new nature God imparts to us at our spiritual birth will not tolerate anything in our lives that displeases God.

It amazes me since you say you are educated in the scripture you really do not have any understanding of its basic doctrines. But that is often the case with those steeped in legalism.
---lee1538 on 10/25/11


Gordon//Where, in the Holy Scriptures, does GOD say that the 7th Day Sabbath is no longer valid for the Church?

Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

The Jewish Sabbath is of the Old Covenant God made ONLY with Israel. It was not mandated to Gentile believers.

The Jerusalem council Acts 15 made it abundantly clear that we do not have to convert to Judaism to be legitimate.

Romans 14:5-6 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord.
---lee1538 on 10/25/11


LEE, You did not answer my question. Where, in the Holy Scriptures, does GOD say that the 7th Day Sabbath is no longer valid for the Church? The Book of ACTS mentions ONE TIME when the Saints gathered on a Sunday. The REST OF THE TIMES that ACTS mentions the Church gathering were on Sabbath Days. The early Church comprised of BOTH Jewish and Gentile Christians. They both gathered together ON THE SABBATH DAY. Will you answer my initial question? Where does GOD say, HIMSELF, that of the Ten Commandments, the Sabbath Law has been eliminated? It doesn't matter if the whole Church disregarded the Sabbath. They'd've been wrong for doing so. That's why the Scriptures say Let all men be liars, but, GOD remains True.
---Gordon on 10/25/11


No, we follow the New Laws commanded by Christ Jesus.
---Eloy on 10/25/11


Send a Free Funny Ecard


A Christian keeps the commandments of God not by doing the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ. For it was Jesus Christ who came to fulfilled the law on behalf of His people. The imputation of Christ's righteousness is only applied through faith in Jesus Christ and no other way. And we know that "faith is a gift from God", which means faith is not from within but from without. And only God's elect will receive His precious gift of faith.
---christan on 10/25/11


Warwick:
IF the scriptures being discussed refer to the 10 commandments, as you claim, then note how they say "KEEP the commandments".
It does not say keep the commandments MOST of the time (allowing for occasional slip-ups) as you and Francis claim.

And James 2:10 "to offend in ONE point you are guilty of ALL" also contradicts your doctrine of keeping the commandments MOST of the time.

So how can you claim to be within the group who "KEEP the commandments" when you fail to keep them perfectly?

And can you please answer my question about what YOU do to keep the Sabbath holy?

---Haz27 on 10/25/11


Warwick, you confessed to us and to me that you were saved by grace through faith. Why do you insist on works to be save when you have been saved by grace through faith already? Don't you know how silly that sounds. I can understand others who have not said they were saved by Grace through faith, but you have. I'm not very educated, and didn't need the Holy Spirit to reveal that to me, but understand that part. I know you do also so why do you persist? To introduce Saturday Sabbath right? There is no other reason I can see. Not one. Saved by Grace, how much clear can that be. Notice is has "ed"
---Mark_V. on 10/25/11


Warwick//Now over to you who say God's commandments are not to be followed. What do you say to these Scriptures?

If you were to check any respectable commentary on those verses, you would see that the word 'commandments' are not the Ten Commamdments in these verses.

Nowhere have I ever stated we should not observe the commandments. What is in focus on this forum is whether the Christian have to observe the Jewish Sabbath - the 4th commandment.
---lee1538 on 10/25/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Ecommerce


Lee, I wrote: Francis has a strong argument:

Revelation 14:12 "Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus."

Consider also 1 John 2:3 "And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments."

And

Revelation 12:17 "Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus..."

Now over to you who say God's commandments are not to be followed. What do you say to these Scriptures?

I notice you ducked this!
---Warwick on 10/24/11


The Bible NOWHERE makes any distinction as to types of law. When it speaks of LAW, it means all the law not just part of it.
---lee1538 on 10/24/11
sure it does
Hebrews 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and CARNAL ORDINANCES, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

Romans 7:12 Wherefore the law [is] holy, and the COMMANDMENTS HOLY, and just, and good.

HOLY AND CARNAL ARE VERY DIFFERENT

Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

a difference again between laws of moses and commandments of God
---Francis on 10/24/11


anon //It's all God's word. God is the same yesterday, today and forever.

The mistake people make is to mandate obedience to commands or laws made only to individuals or to the nation of Israel alone to the church which is under a different covenant.

//Jesus came to fulfill the law.

According to Mt. 5:17-18 that is what He said He came to accomplish. However, Did Jesus fulfill all the law, or just the part that is typically ceremonial in nature? Does heaven & earth need pass away before its completion? Is the law spoken of here the Decalogue or the Law of Moses or both?

The Bible NOWHERE makes any distinction as to types of law. When it speaks of LAW, it means all the law not just part of it.
---lee1538 on 10/24/11


The people did not keep the covenant in that they did not obey Gods laws. That covenant breing broken by The people a new covenant had to be made:
Hebrews 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

In this new covenant God offers HELP which was not asked for in the old covenant in keeping his laws

Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you:

A hew heart and a new spirit is promised for those who want to covenant with God
God promises to but HIS LAWS in our hearts
---Francis on 10/24/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Jewelry


No. We serve the New Covenant written with Christ's blood.
---Eloy on 10/24/11


The law is law and not a covenant. God's covenant were revealed in stages through Noah, Abraham, Moses, King David, all pointing to grace in Jesus Christ. These are known as Covenant of Grace, that salvation is a promise from God to save His people from their sins.

"Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many, but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise." Galatians 3:16-18
---christan on 10/24/11


This is the old covenant:

Exodus 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him. And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

The people agreed to obey God and God agreed to be their God.

Then God gave them his Laws which they did not obey
---francis on 10/24/11


Well of course, Francis, if you want to flat out call Moses a liar. The Bible calls him a prophet, whom the likes of which has never been seen to this day, who spoke face to face with God. By your reasoning even the Ten Commandments could not be validated as no witnesses were present when God gave them to Moses. Everyone else was waiting at the foot of the mountain. If Moses lied about God giving other commandments to him, then he could have also lied about God writing on the tablets, he could have just written them himself. You're gonig to have to choose whether or not your going to believe the Bible, which says Moses was a prophet who spoke face to face with God.
---Jed on 10/24/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Furniture


Gordon//lee1538, The Gentile Converts were observing the 7th Day Sabbath as it's read in the Book of ACTS. Show us all, lee, where GOD HIMSELF, in HIS Written Word, that the Sabbath is no longer valid. SHOW US ALL. please. Thank you.
---
While I would grant you that the early church which was all Jewish continued in the Mosaic tradition and observe the OT Sabbath, such laws that were strictly Jewish were NOT commanded of Gentile converts. We can easily see that in Acts 15.

Did the Gentile church met on sundays? Yes, we can conclude that from Acts 20:7 and 1 Cor. 16:2. And anyone knowledgeable of early church history can easily see that the Gentile church in the majority did NOT observe the Jewish Sabbath. Your welcome,
---lee1538 on 10/24/11


It's all God's word. God is the same yesterday, today and forever.

Jesus came to fulfill the law.
---anon on 10/24/11


Gordon //The Gentile Converts were observing the 7th Day Sabbath as read in the Book of ACTS. Show us all, lee, where GOD HIMSELF, in HIS Written Word, that the Sabbath is no longer valid.

Since you have asked me a question, may I ask of you one also?

Where in the New Testament does it command Christians under the New Covenant to observe the Sabbath?

There is not so much as a hint of a command in either the Epistles or in the teachings of the early church.

So sorry, but your position is a minority position because it has the least support either from the Bible or church history. All you really have is a command given ONLY to Israel as a sign of a covenant (Exodus 31:13,17) that has been declared OBSOLETE (Hebr. 8:13)
---lee1538 on 10/24/11


Francis //It really does not matter how many blogs are written about THE LAW OF GOD to get people not to keep the law of God. the new Covenant promise clearly states " I will put my laws in their hearts and in their minds."

Yes, there are those whose hearts are really harden to the point they shut out anything that would make them change their beliefs.
But you also have those that would stick to the more supportable interpretations.

Those of us who have studied these issues believe 'my laws' (Hebr. 8:10) really refers to moral laws as such deal with human relationships, whereas the Sabbath has nothing to do with moral law.

Romans 13:9-10 states that whatever the commandment, love of neighbor FULFILLS the law.
---lee1538 on 10/24/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Laptops


lee1538, The Gentile Converts were observing the 7th Day Sabbath as it's read in the Book of ACTS. Show us all, lee, where GOD HIMSELF, in HIS Written Word, that the Sabbath is no longer valid. SHOW US ALL. please. Thank you.
---Gordon on 10/24/11


Francis It is clear if God had desired Christians to obey all the 10 commandments, His Spirit would have commanded it when it was decided whether Gentile converts needed to be circumcised and to obey the law (Acts 15:5).

But we read "Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, "You must be circumcised and keep the law" to whom we gave no such commandment..." (Acts 15:24)

The law here being that one law without distinction we see in the Bible.

Since there was no command made to Gentile converts to observe the Jewish Sabbath, do you believe that the Apostles and their successor erred in not mandating observance of the OT sabbath?
---lee1538 on 10/24/11


Francis -Is the Law of God limited to the Decalogue?

Luke 2:22f And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord, (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord,) And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.

This would indicate that the law of the Lord (or law of God, same thing) would not necessarily have to be the Decalogue since these verses speak of offering of sacrifices as required by the Law of the Lord.
---lee1538 on 10/24/11


Cluny, The rite of Circumcision is not one of the Ten Commandments. It is not a "Moral" Law. It was a Law of Distinction that GOD used as a symbolic way of setting the Jews/Hebrews apart from the Gentile nations. It is NOT A SIN to be uncircumcised! But, it IS a Sin to break one of the Ten Commandments! The Ten Commandments were not the Law of Moses. They are REALLY GOD's Commands. But, that doesn't really make any difference even if the Ten WERE "the Laws of Moses", OKAY? Because, the point IS, is that the "law" of Circumcision is not one of the Ten Commandments. It's not a sin to be uncircumcised. But, it's a SIN to violate any of the Ten Commandments. PERIOD.
---Gordon on 10/24/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Lawyer


It really does not matter how many blogs are wrtten about THE LAW OF GOD in an effort to get people not to keep the law of God. the new Covenant promise clearly states " I will put my laws in their hearts and in their minds."

Which means that the Law of God is part fo the New Covenant

Deuteronomy 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect:
2 Samuel 22:31 As for God, his way is perfect,
Psalms 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul:

The Laws of God does not need to change, it is WE WHO NEED a change of heart. If we allow god by His spirit to put His Laws in our hearts and mins, we would be praising God, nnot trying to find reasons to violate his perfect law of Liberty
---Francis on 10/24/11


The Old Covenant is not applicable to the new believer in Christ. He is not under the law, he has come out of the bondage of the Law through Christ.
He is now in bondage to Christ. The Covenant of works for obedience is condemning all those who are not in Christ for breaking the law. Until they receive faith, they will remain condemned.
"He who believes in Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten So of God. And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil" John 3:
---Mark_V. on 10/24/11


Mat_12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

Joh_13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another, as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
Joh_13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

Joh_15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
Joh_15:17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.

Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat_22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

All the law and the prophets.
Is it so?
---TheSeg on 10/24/11


Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/21/11
Josef on 10/22/11 In its entirety,
Amen!

"The law written on our hearts is that which would promote love of God and our neighbor, as that fulfills the law does it NOT?" Romans 13:9f lee1538 on 10/23/11

"AMEN"
---Haz27 on 10/23/11

And amen!
---Chria9396 on 10/24/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Dedicated Hosting


Josef correctly said:
"Is the Old Covenant laws applicable to Christians?" NO.

"If not, why not?" "On the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness, for the law made nothing perfect, on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God." Hbr 7:18,19

"Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made." This covenant was "confirmed of God in Christ". Therefore " the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot annul, [cancel, or invalidate it], that it should make the promise of none effect." Gal. 3:16,17

AMEN
---Haz27 on 10/23/11


The ten commandments are the only commandments that can be varified as being spoken and written by God (Deuteronomy 4:12 and 13) -Francis

This is absolutely incorrect.
---Jed on 10/23/11

ok show me the other commandments that has been heard by more than one person.

Remember at the mouth of two or three witnesses...The things which God told to Moses, ONLY MOSES heard them, no one could varify what Moses heard


If you say
Matthew 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased, hear ye him.

I would say i stand corrected, on the ssumption that the voice was the voice of God
---Francis on 10/23/11


Francis //the Bible defines two laws,...

The Bible does not make any distinction between laws whether they be the law of Moses, the law of God, moral or ceremonial law, etc.

Easton's revised Bible Dictionary -

Law of Moses =

Is the whole body of the Mosaic legislation #1Ki 2:3 2Ki 23:25 #Ezr 3:2 It is called by way of eminence simply "the Law" (Heb. Torah,) #De 1:5 4:8,44 17:18,19 27:3,8 As a written code it is called the "book of the law of Moses" #2Ki 14:6 Isa 8:20 the "book of the law of God" #Jos 24:26 The great leading principle of the Mosaic law is that it is essentially theocratic, i.e., it refers at once to the commandment of God as the foundation of all human duty.
---lee1538 on 10/23/11


Hard to believe, right in front of your eyes!

Act 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

So, not misspeaking!
It seemed good unto us, (and The Holy Ghost) being assembled with one accord!
To send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul!

Act 15:26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Hazarded their lives, for The Lord! So youll know who to believe!

Act 15:27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.

For sure!
---TheSeg on 10/23/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Online Marketing


The ten commandments are the only commandments that can be varified as being spoken and written by God (Deuteronomy 4:12 and 13) -Francis

This is absolutely incorrect.
---Jed on 10/23/11


The ten commandments are the only commandments that can be varified as being spoken and written by God (Deuteronomy 4:12 and 13)

2: Bible defines two laws, LAW of moses as that which was given to moses by God, and then taught to Israel by Moses( Deuteronomy 4:14 Malachi 4:4), and LAW of God as that which was soken directly to Israel by God and written by God himself (Deuteronomy 4:12-13 and Jeremiah 7:22-23:

3: The Ten commandments, covers all others laws. Example: When God commanded Adam not to eat from the tree, and satan causes Adam and eve to eat from the tree, that is a violation ot the first commandments, Eve now made Satan her god, and Adam made eve his God. They now had another god besides Jehovah
---Francis on 10/23/11


---TheSeg on 10/23/11
was not asking anyone
Just saying that God himself said that it was not a Joke,

Is it unlike Peter to missspeak?
What part of the law was a Yoke?
It cannot be circuncision, since most circumcision were performed on infants who did not even remember it, and people still perform circumcision today.
It cannot be the sanctuary since it was concidered the center and glory of israel?

So just what was the yoke?
---Francis on 10/23/11


Is the Old Covenant laws applicable to Christians? If not, why not?

The Christian lives under the New Covenant alone because the Old covenant did not include any Gentile believers except the proselytes - converts to Judaism.

Dt. 5:2-3 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. Not with our fathers did the LORD make this covenant, but with us, who are all of us here alive today.

The New Covenant included all who would believe from all nationalities.

The Jerusalem council Acts 15 decreed that one did not have to convert to Judaism to be a legitimate Christian.

Howbeit, the legalists, the fault finders who want to measure themselves against others, try adhere to laws found only in the Old Covenant.
---lee1538 on 10/23/11


Read These Insightful Articles About VoIP Service


--lee Here is what you are missing
Hebrews 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put MY LAWS IN THIER HEARTS, and in their minds will I write them,

The New Covenant includes "MY LAWS IN THIER HEARTS."

In the OLD TESTEMENT BOOKS we have a summary of the ten:
Deuteronomy 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Leviticus 19:18 thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

and in the NT we have ALL TEN COMMANDMENTS

So the NEW COVENNAT includes ALL TEN COMMANDMENTS in detail or in summary if you prefer. " MY LAWS IN THIER HEARTS."
---Francis on 10/23/11


Hebrews 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put MY LAWS IN THIER HEARTS, and in their minds will I write them,

The New Covenant includes "MY LAWS IN THIER HEARTS."

In the OLD TESTEMENT BOOKS we have a summary of the ten:
Deuteronomy 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Leviticus 19:18 thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

and in the NT we have ALL TEN COMMANDMENTS

So the NEW COVENNAT includes ALL TEN COMMANDMENTS in detail or in summary if you prefer. " MY LAWS IN THIER HEARTS."
---Francis on 10/23/11


This one, "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."
James 2:8 "If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:"

Here is where that looney Haz27 goes wrong, saying those who fulfill the royal law are serving the law, while the
rest of modern Christianity asserts that this one and the love of God is what is written in the believer's heart.
However, James declares that whom follows that rule, if he make exception of persons, or fault that equality in love
by any means, that they have violated the full of God's councel. Is not that written also in Ezekiel 18?
---Nana on 10/23/11


There are numerous covenants between God the Father and man and most are still in full force but may have nothing to do with salvation. Christ just provides an alternative covenant then following the 613 laws of Judaism. But neither alternative is worth anything if God the Father did not select you to be an adopted child to start with and give you his irresistible Grace. You cannot exercise Free Will and be a child of God the Father. Satin was the first to exercise Free Will, he thought he had a better idea and was YHWH's equal and refused to follow God's Plan. If you advocate Free Will you follow Satin plan not God the Father's.
---Blogger9211 on 10/23/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Settlements


Francis, are asking me?
Was the law really a yoke?
I believe so and I dont stand alone!

Youll have to take it up with:
God because Judas and Silas are his prophets!
Christ because he was the one who picked the apostles.
The apostles because they picked the disciples!
The elders because the apostles and elders came together to consider of this matter
These are the ones who made it know or said it!

Remember!
They didnt just blur it out.
They consider this matter.

Oh, and just so were clear! There is one more, The Holy Ghost of God!
For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost!

But of course, if dont like it.
You have a free will, to change it!
Peace!
---TheSeg on 10/23/11


//THE LAWS OF GOD ARE HIS TEN COMMANDMENTS SPOKEN AND WROTEN BY GOD.
---Francis
Why do you limit the 'laws of God' to the 10 commandments?

Certainly, most certainly if God wrote the Sabbath commandment onto the hearts of believers then we would see something about that in the Epistles as well as in the writings of the early church.

Also all the evidences points to the fact that the Gentile churches did NOT observe the Jewish Sabbath.

When they asked Jesus what was the most important of all the commandments (Mark 12:28f), He did not even respond with any of the 10 commandments. The law written on our hearts is that which would promote love of God and our neighbor, as that fulfills the law does it NOT?Romans 13:9f
---lee1538 on 10/23/11


Hebrews 8:13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete (the Old one here being the Mosaic covenant). And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

If the Old Covenant became obsolete then can we truly say that those who think the Old Covenant laws are applicable to the Christian walk are basing their views on something that has been declared to be OBSOLETE?
---lee1538 on 10/23/11


Acts 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Was the law really a yoke:
1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are NOT GRIEVOUS

Hebrews 8:8 For FINDING FAULT WITH THEM, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
---Francis on 10/23/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Internet Services


Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost,
and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things,

That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

they delivered the epistle
And Judas and Silas, being prophets!
---TheSeg on 10/23/11


the Old Covenant laws are applicable to those who are without Christ. They stay condemn until they come to Christ if they ever will. believers are not under that penalty.
---Adam on 10/23/11


"He has changed the agreements He made with His creation, otherwise there would be no need for a New Covenant.
You may note that some of the laws that were distinctively Jewish were not required of believers, such as physical circumcision, observance of any day as the Sabbath, nor were the Levitical dietary laws applicable (read Acts 15, Romans 14)."
---lee1538 on 10/22/11

Personally, I do not observe the "distinctively Jewish" observances. However, I would not fill my mouth with presumming that what applies to me applies to all 'His creation' or a generic 'believer'. There are Christians of Jewish descent (like the first Christians?). Ever hear of the Rechabites? Read Jeremiah 35.
---Nana on 10/22/11


Hebrews 10:16 This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put MY LAWS into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them,

Clearly the New Covenant does include THE LAWS OF GOD

WHat ARE the LAWS OF GOD:

Deuteronomy 4:12 And the LORD spake unto you out of the midst of the fire: ye heard the voice of the words, but saw no similitude, only ye heard a voice. Deuteronomy 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even TEN COMMANDMENTS, and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

THE LAWS OF GOD ARE HIS TEN COMMANDMENTS SPOKEN AND WROTEN BY GOD
---Francis on 10/22/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Online Stores


Nana /./That one, He never changes..., we on the other hand have had to always comform to Him. His requirements of us have always been the same:

Agree that God does not change as He is the Holy and eternal god. However, He has changed the agreements He made with His creation, otherwise there would be no need for a New Covenant.

None of the laws governing the priesthood are applicable today since that priesthood became the priesthood of believers.

You may note that some of the laws that were distinctively Jewish were not required of believers, such as physical circumcision, observance of any day as the Sabbath, nor were the Levitical dietary laws applicable (read Acts 15, Romans 14).
---lee1538 on 10/22/11


Lets see..., covenant?
Matthew 22:32 "I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living."
Are we talking about that same God, of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?
That one, He never changes..., we on the other hand have had to always comform to Him. His requirements of us have always been the same:

Genesis 4:7 "If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted?"
Isaiah 1:17 "Learn to do well, seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow."
Colossians 3:12 "Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering,"
---Nana on 10/22/11


\\Cluny, The ACTS 15 reference to "the law" was concerning the law of Circumcision. \\

Wrong.

"Circumcision" is used in the NT for the whole corpus of Jewish practices, as can be seen.

And in Acts 15 "Circumcision" is linked with "keeping the law of Moses."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/22/11


The "Ten Commandments" apply to the Church today. But, the 613+ Levtical laws are what do not apply. If one truly loves GOD and are living uprightly before HIM, they will automatically be obeying and living out the Ten Commandments, that is, the Ten Moral Laws of Love.
---Gordon on 10/21/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Business Training


If one wants to try and follow the Old Covenant, that's between him and God. Just don't sass your parents, or you'll have to be put to death. :)
---God.is.everywhere on 10/21/11


Cluny, The ACTS 15 reference to "the law" was concerning the law of Circumcision. Male circumcision is not a requirement of GOD today. It's the Ten Moral/Love Commandments of GOD that are applicable to the true Church. There are different and separate sets of Laws. One simply must know WHICH Laws are being referred to when spoken of in the New Testament. That requires some Study and Discernment. YAHUSHUA came to "fulfill the Law". Not so that, "since He lived out the Law perfectly, He did it FOR US, so we don't have to, since, we can't do it anyway!" NO. YAHUSHUA fulfilled the Law to BE OUR EXAMPLE that we can do it. But, ONLY by the Power of the HOLY SPIRIT. So that, HE gets the Glory and not us.
---Gordon on 10/22/11


"Is the Old Covenant laws applicable to Christians?" No.
"If not, why not?" "On the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness, for the law made nothing perfect, on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God." Hbr 7:18,19
"Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made." This covenant was "confirmed of God in Christ". Therefore " the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot annul, [cancel, or invalidate it], that it should make the promise of none effect." Gal. 3:16,17
---Josef on 10/22/11


Copyright© 1996-2015 ChristiaNet®. All Rights Reserved.