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Christian Embrace Evolution

Is there any reason why a Christian should embrace Evolution in order to help explain Creation? If not, why do so many do it?

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 ---jerry6593 on 10/25/11
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So the point of God's command at Exodus 20:8-11 was nothing to do with the length of a day. The Israelites already knew how long a day was.

What was new however, was how they were to structure their working week. God told them to copy His creative week, and rest on the 7th.

The Israelites including Moses knew God doesn't count his time the same way man does- Psalms 90:4, Is.55:8,9.

Thus, believing the creative 'days' were longer than 24 hours doesn't mean one believes in evolution.

As God's rest day has not yet finished, rather than observing a literal Sabbath, Christians are encouraged to 'enter God's rest'- Heb.4:9,10.
---David8318 on 10/31/11


StrongAxe, in Genesis 1,2 God says He worked 6-days, rested the 7th. God is not man who tires, why did He rest?

Exodus 20:8-11:

"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates."

What is God's basis for this Commandment?


"For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy."

Not conjecture!
---Warwick on 10/31/11


Lee: "We can suspect that the Sabbath was simply counted off 7 days from when the month started, a truly artificial determination."

If you were familiar with the Bible, you would know that God, Himself reaffirmed the 7-day week and Sabbath observance in the lesson of the manna BEFORE the Hebrews reached Mt. Sinai. Not artificial at all, but direct from the highest authority.
---jerry6593 on 10/31/11


Rocky, in one blog you asked one question, and I have answered it. In another you asked 6 questions all about the same thing.

If you answer my one relevant question we can progress. If you are not prepared to do so we cannot. You can hide behind this if you like. It is up to you.

I have no intention of answering 6 questions at one time.

You said "Again this whole line of argument is silly..." But on my side it is not an argument, but a stating of what Scripture says. God says He created in 6 days. If you, or anyone else, say the days are not ordinary, earth-rotation, 24hr days it is up to you/them to prove they are not ordinary days, using Scripture.
---Warwick on 10/31/11


Rocky, the Creator said man was made at the beginning of the creation, not eons later

What does man know in relation to what God knows?

Trusting Jesus I understand the layers of sedimentary rock, (including fosilized remains of billions of creatures,including man) were laid down after Man's creation, and obviously after sin. Death followed after Adam's sin.

This is the foundation of the gospel.

Does Scripture explain how those billions of fosilized creatures came to be buried in sediment laid down by water? Yes, it says all air-breathing, land-dwelling creatures except those on the ark, died in the world-wide flood.

Either we trust what God says, or trust man's changing unproven stories.

Too easy!
---Warwick on 10/31/11




JIM 10/31/11
Rocky...I see you have a big problem with this statement.
In the beginning God created.

ANOTHER LIE. I've ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM with "In the beginning God created".
Why do you, Jed, and MarkV all LIE THAT WAY PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH AND ATTACKING ME FOR YOUR WORDS. Must be because you can't attack for what I do write so you make it up. And the three of you, and others, keep ignoring the simple questions I asked about the issues. Pathetic. You ignore the real questions about issues and instead choose to lie and make bogus attacks. Don't you realize how foolish you prove yourselves to be. And you keep breaking the commandment. Unbelievably bad behavior by all three.
---Rocky on 10/31/11


Rocky...I see you have a big problem with this statement.

In the beginning God created.
---JIM on 10/31/11


The Hebrew calendar started during the Exodus with Moses.

Exodus 2:12 This month shall be for you the beginning of months. It shall be the first month of the year for you.

We can suspect that the Sabbath was simply counted off 7 days from when the month started, a truly artificial determination.

Their calendar was based on the rotation of the moon and had to be adjusted from time to time.
---lee1538 on 10/31/11


Jerry, you ask- 'how long is YOUR week'? Why do you ask? The length of my week is not the issue. Your question highlights your problem.

The length of a week in human terms is not the same in God's terms. Why do you think they are? Why do you constantly confuse God's count of time with man's count of time? Is it because of your trinitarian indoctrination? (Is.55:8,9)

Is AlmightyGod the eternal God or not? Why do you believe God after existing for an eternity in the past, spends (in your view) 144 hours creating, and then needs a 24 hour 'rest'? You obviously do not understand what 'God's rest' means.

Understanding 'God's rest' is important because Christians are invited to 'enter into it' (Heb.4:9,10). It is yet to end.
---David8318 on 10/31/11


Jason1027:

Recapitulation theory, that popularized the phrase "ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny", has been largely discredited, so it is meaningless to argue whether or not used this mechanism to deceive anyone, as the mechanism does not, in fact, exist at all.


Warwick:

Assuming that God spread out his creation purely for man's benefit is also pure conjecture, since that is also not stated anywhere. That we should emulate him in no way implies that he did it purely for our benefit.
---StrongAxe on 10/31/11




1)Do you believe He took the time to create the world by laying down geologic strata?
2) Are you familiar with the phrase "ontogeny recapitulated phylogeny"? Was that also done to deceive?
---Rocky on 10/31/11

1) As has already been explained to you, the flood can easily account for the strata, but of course you believe that to be allegory as well.

2) So youre promoting Ernst Haekel's BIG LIE? He doctored drawings of dog and human embryos to look the same. He lied to prove evolution and was convicted of fraud in 1875. To quote your favorite source, Wiki "Modern biology rejects the literal and universal form of Haeckel's theory". You need to do better research, Rocky.
---Jason1072 on 10/31/11


--Warwick 10/31/11
This was my endeavour to get to the basis of your 6 questions. If you would be so kind as to answer this question then we can make some progress.
--Warwick 10/31/11
. I asked questions of you already in my post of 10/27 and 10/28. Why are you ignoring them? After you respond to the questions I already asked you, I will consider responding to your question.
You responded to my post of 10/27, I am still waiting for a more complete response on 10/28. My position has not changed.
---Rocky on 10/31/11


--PoppaBear 10/31/11
God can create without time or age being a factor,
Just because he can does not mean he did.
Do you believe He took the time to create the world by laying down geologic strata, with each progressive layer containing fossils of innumerable life forms projecting an evolutionary path? Did he do that by accident or just to deceive us?
Are you familiar with the phrase "ontogeny recapitulated phylogeny"? Was that also done to deceive?
Why would he also factor in some deceptions in radiographic dating? Why would he put in place such a deceptive package of facts?
---Rocky on 10/31/11


Rocky, on 28/1011 you asked 6 questions. I am not going to answer 6 questions but gave the language translation example to illustrate that Genesis was obviously translated into English in a way that English speakers will understand. If the underlying Hebrew said something else why would it be translated the way it is?

God says He created in 6 days and we know what 6 days means, don't we. That is why I asked if I said to you-I am going away for 6 days, would you wonder how long these days are? Would you?

This was my endeavour to get to the basis of your 6 questions. If you would be so kind as to answer this question then we can make some progress.
---Warwick on 10/31/11


StrongAxe God being unlimited in power, and outside of time, could have created it all instantaneously. But He didn't, why?"

Exodus 20:8-11 shows He did it as a template for the human week. He commands Israel to work 6 days, and rest the 7th "For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day.

"Gill's exposition of the Bible, in discussing day age theories, or unknown periods of time etc says "These are modern compromises to accomodate the alleged geological ages with the Biblical account of creation."

Who do we trust God or man? See Psalm 146:3-6.
---Warwick on 10/31/11


I believe that God created with age already factored into creation. Adam/Eve are given life at adulthood, but a scientist going back in time would've wrongly determined they were adults according to a quantifiable passage of physical/maturity, when they may still have been only 2 days old with physical features of middle age. Stars may take thousands of years to shine, but God can create without time or age being a factor, rather functionality of his creation being key. We may wrongly measure the method of creation according to laws of science that God really could've put in place to maintain creation, only after he rested from his work. We maybe putting the cart before the horse.
---Poppa_Bear on 10/31/11


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We do not know what evening and morning meant on days 1-3... neither the earth nor the sun were in existence at the beginning. ---StrongAxe on 10/29/11

Why would you assume days 1-3 would be any different than 4-6 when the same terminology is used, establishing the day and night cycle? You're making assumptions by saying it's different. And your wrong the earth was created at the beginning.

It could be the light in v.3 is coming from God. The bible says God is light. Rev 22:5 says "And there shall be no night there, and they need no candle, neither light of the sun, for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever."
---Jason1072 on 10/31/11


Lee: "How does one get to acknowledge the FACT that the Genesis creation account does not mention anything about the duration of those periods called 'days'?"

Your "facts" are nothing but fiction. Genesis defines a "day" as consisting of an evening and a morning. You could measure that time period today to see how long a day is, but you won't because your obdurate heart is at enmity with God. He gave you further explanation when He wrote with His own finger:

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day:

Why won't you even consider that God might be right and Lee wrong?
---jerry6593 on 10/31/11


Warwick //In your story the Israelites could not have known when day 7 was, with drastic consequences! Exodus 31:15 "Anyone who does any work on that day must be put to death."
---
There is virtually no reason not to beleive that the 7th day sabbath was not based on the 7 time periods of Creation, the periods being of different duration.

How does one get to acknowledge the FACT that the Genesis creation account does not mention anything about the duration of those periods called 'days'? Need a mental laxative?

---lee1538 on 10/30/11


Warwick:

The problem is not one of rejecting what the scriptures say about origins, because they say fairly little, condensing the creation of the entire universe into a few verses. The problem is one of accepting or rejecting much people think scripture says but doesn't - things they read between the lines.

For example, Genesis says God created this and that saying "Let there be this" etc., but doesn't go into details about just HOW those things came about.

These were not likely instantaneous. Otherwise, why would God need 6 days to do something we can read about in 6 minutes? Does God get tired? And, if they were not instantaneous, they would have involved some time-consuming processes that are not described.
---StrongAxe on 10/30/11


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Rocky let me answer your question from 27/11 first. The one about my dog analogy. I missed it at the time.

You asked "Exactly how does the analogy apply?"

This was aimed at those who objected to Jerry posting another evolution question. Why object, just ignore it. But the stone hit, and they 'yelped.

I believe the analogy regarding the dogs is relevant as they 'yelp' because they are not prepared to believe what Scripture says about origins. And to reply exposes their preference for nonBiblical man made views. The question makes them feel guilty, and exposed as people of little faith.

You could say Jerry is a thorn in their side!
---Warwick on 10/30/11


I would like an answer.
--Warwick on 10/28/11
So would I. I asked questions of you already in my post of 10/27 and 10/28. Why are you ignoring them? After you respond to the questions I already asked you, I will consider responding to your question.
---Rocky on 10/29/11


I used to believe in evolution. but this was only because I was like the majority. I was indoctrinated with that belief system through the education system and TV documentaries, etc.

I understand this is why some Christians believe in evolution and use it to explain Genesis.

The education system and mainstream media indoctrinate the young especially. Sadly we live in an era where the likes of Humanists dominate thought through schools/Univerities/ mainstream media etc.
---Haz27 on 10/29/11


Warwick: While I tend to feel that 24 hours is simpler, I also feel that lee1538's comment about no sun for the first three days is a good comment. We base our days on the time it takes the earth to rotate, because we have the sun. But God made evening and morning in a different way, as no sun was there.

It is simpler, I know, to take 24 hours. That I accept. But if I were pushed to explain why, I'd have to just say 'personally, I feel it's the best way', and not 'IT'S GOD'S TRUTH', for the second one I cannot say
---Peter on 10/29/11


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Warwick: I'd know it depends on what celestial body you were talking from..... on the moon, it's be a total of 708 hours for six days.

On the earth with no sun......

?????????????????????????

press CTRL/ALT/DEL to restart would be the answer to your question
---Jack on 10/29/11


Lee, says 1 day is a period of darkness (evening) followed by a period of light (morning)leading to evening the beginning of another day. This is easy to understand because this is exactly what 1 day is, today.Maybe not where you live!

Without any evidence you claim days 1-3 are of different length than days 4-6. God disagrees. Exodus 20:11 "For in 6 days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the 7th day..."

In your story the Israelites could not have known when day 7 was, with drastic consequences! Exodus 31:15 "Anyone who does any work on that day must be put to death."
---Warwick on 10/30/11


Rocky: " Those not believing in evolution should be presenting their case for believing in a literal Bible as the presumption should be things are not true until proven so. Otherwise I could write a book and claim it is the Word of God "

Says who? If this were an Evolution website, then it would be incumbent upon us Christians to "prove" the Bible. But this is a Christian website, so it is incumbent upon you Evolutionists to prove your non-biblical theories.

It seems as if you are writing your own Bible whenever you rip out those pages that you do not believe are true. What you have left is worthless - a book that always agrees with your distorted view of reality.
---jerry6593 on 10/30/11


David: "God has not yet declared the 7th day"

Ordinals and Cardinals aside, how could God expect us to count six days and rest the seventh - EVERY WEEK - if the days themselves were not of definable length? Just how long is YOUR week?
---jerry6593 on 10/30/11


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[Various] Legitimate questions....no sarcasm.
--Trav 10/27/11
No, I can't tell how the Genesis creation story meshes with geological periods, or if does at all. I am not sure if that part of the Bible is meant to be taken literally or allegorically.
---Rocky on 10/28/11

Me either as stated previously.
Probing to see if you had any evidences for your theory.
When I pick up my kids college textbooks, texts teach evolution as if it factual. Some kids accept it a factual. While my kids were asking these teachers questions they couldn't answer themselves....not all kids do.
Not having facts...we should at minimum have tying questions that put the onus on science. Scares the Warwickian's doctrines ....but, so what.
---Trav on 10/30/11


Rocky I am sure you agree the Bible was translated into English so English speakers can understand?

Translation is not done word for word but language 1 is translated into 2 using terminology understood by those reading language 2.

For example let us consider French into English. The principle is the same no matter what language is being translated. "Qu'est-ce que c'est cette maison?" translated word for word is "What is it that it is that house?" However when we translate the French into English we write "What is that house?"

A question, if I said to you-I am going away for 6 days, would you wonder how long these days are?

I would like an answer.
---Warwick on 10/28/11


Warwick - "evening and morning' designed a 'day' or simply a 'period' to time. However, the 'evening & morning', 'day' of the last periods of time took on a different meaning.

Obvious, anyone should be able to see that since the sun was not created until the 4th period or day, the earlier periods could have been of any duration. There was no sundown to sun rise during these 1st 3 periods.

What you are trying to do is to force an interpretation into the text that is not there.
---lee1538 on 10/28/11


Rocky once again says stuff and then say's people distort what he say's. Here is what he quoted,
that evolution is more accurate than the Genesis story of creation" Supporting evolution over the written Word of God by questioning the Book of Genesis. Questioning the message about the character of works of God found in (v.1-11). Questioning the pattern that emerges which reveal God's abundant grace as He responded to the willful disobedience of mankind. In other words he believes it's not Truth at all, but evolution is Truth to him. Since people support what they believe.
As he had declared before, the Spirit discerns what is Truth in the Bible and what is not.
---Mark_V. on 10/29/11


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Rocky, I feel bad for you if you can't read God's Word and know it is true. If God said it, I believe it. If he said the 4th day, He meant the 4th day. That is all I need to convince me. Leave the evolution to non believers.
---shira4368 on 10/29/11


Warwick:

Your argument about days 4-6 are all well and fine - relying on evening and morning which are traditionally tied to the relative positions of the earth and the sun.

However, such arguments break down when there WAS no sun to measure by, or when there was no earth to rotate. We do not know what evening and morning meant on days 1-3, but one thing we DO know is that they COULD NOT POSSIBLY HAVE MEANT rotation of the earth with respect to the sun, since neither the earth nor the sun were in existence at the beginning. You may assume that they were 24 hour days, but that is merely an assumption.
---StrongAxe on 10/29/11


Lee, you agree days 4-6 are c24hr days.

For example how do we know the 4th day is 4th day? Because God said "And there was evening, and there was morning-the fourth day"-"evening" and "morning" being the 2 components of 1 24hr day.

In the Middle East each day begins at "evening", ending at the next "evening."

To simplify it let us run the day descriptions together. "And there was evening, and there was morning,the third day, And there was evening and there was morning-the fourth day, And there was evening,...."

This is the normal description of one day following another in Middle East terms.

You need to step outside your blinkered Western thinking.
---Warwick on 10/28/11


To respond to the Blog topic:
There is no reason a Christian SHOULD embrace Evolution to help explain creation. He should, however, support evolution if he believes that it is true instead of a literal Bible. Or if he is not sure of either, he should state that. I strongly believe that the Bible is not inerrant. I think, less strongly, that evolution is more accurate than the Genesis story of creation. Frankly responding on this blog I have spent more time thinking about it than in years. I prefer to spend more time on less esoteric topics like trying to live a better life through service and self improvement.
---Rocky on 10/28/11


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Lee, I do not keep a "Jewish Sabbath" as the Commandment was given to Jews and non Jews.

I do not set aside a day to rest, recouperate and worship for any slavish salvation gaining Commandment observance. I am already saved.

In gratitude I rest, and honour God who saved me through the finished work of Jesus Christ, upon the cross.

In Exodus 20:8-11 God says He instituted the 7-day week of 6 days work and the 7th of rest. He links these days inextricably with His 6 creation days, and 7th of rest. He does not explain that the first 3 were of different length to the following 3 because they are not. Your belief is contradicted by God's word, grammar, and last, and least of all logic. It is irrational.
---Warwick on 10/28/11


Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens, God himself that formed the earth and made it, he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I [am] the LORD, and [there is] none else.
--This includes how days and years are measured.
Gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night, and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
--By our measurement or His?
--Or by His measurement for us?
Psalms 118:24 This [is] the day [which] the LORD hath made, we will rejoice and be glad in it.
--We can't claim this on the first seven days, any or all of them?
---micha9344 on 10/28/11


[Various] Legitimate questions....no sarcasm.
--Trav 10/27/11
No, I can't tell how the Genesis creation story meshes with geological periods, or if does at all. I am not sure if that part of the Bible is meant to be taken literally or allegorically. But I don't waste a lot of time worrying about it either way. It does not affect my faith that God created the universe or my faith in or love for Jesus or the plan of salvation.
---Rocky on 10/28/11


Warwick 10/26/11
In Genesis 1 and in Exodus 20:8-11 and the other 401 instances I referred to they are all 24hr days
How do you know? Was there some parenthetical note written by Moses stating that all were 24 hours? How long then was an hour? How do you know that? Who had watches to measure time? Trying to argue this one way or another is stupid.
BTW the length of 1 day is not governed by any light source but by the time the earth takes to rotate upon its axis.
Fine but how fast was the Earth rotating? Again this whole line of argument is silly for both sides.
---Rocky on 10/28/11


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At the end of each creative 'day' God said 'there was evening and there was morning...' This is given at the end of each of the creative days- hence said in the past tense.

This is further evidence to believe God's '7th day of rest' has not yet ended. God has yet to declare 'there was evening and morning... a 7th day'.

This appears to be difficult for fundamentalist trinitarians to grasp. They reason 'if the lack of 'evening and morning' means the day never ended, by the same logic it never began'. What logic do they refer to?

Not only do fundamentalist trinitarians fail to discern the difference between ordinal and cardinal numbers, they also do not understand past tense statements such as 'THERE WAS evening and morning'.
---David8318 on 10/28/11


No one here has talked about the real issue. Either you believe in a literal Bible or not. Evolution vs. the creation story is one example of this larger issue. Those not believing in evolution should be presenting their case for believing in a literal Bible as the presumption should be things are not true until proven so. Otherwise I could write a book and claim it is the Word of God until you prove it is not and how would you do that?
---Rocky on 10/28/11


At Exodus 20:8-11, God is not defining the length of a 'day'. The Israelites already knew how long a day was. God certainly does not define a length of HIS day, God said- 'Six days YOU shall labor and do all YOUR work' (NIV).

God has a time frame and man has a time frame. They are not the same. 6 days for God are not the same length as 6 days for man.

'I am God and not man'- Hosea 11:9.

'For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so my ways are higher than YOUR ways, and my thoughts than YOUR thoughts'. Is.55:9

Moses did not believe a 'day' with God was 24hours long- Ps.90:4.
---David8318 on 10/28/11


Warwick //Day 1 ends "And there was evening and there was morning-the first day."

Evening and morning occur with the setting and rising of the sun.

Since the sun was not created until the 4th periiod, there is no way one can conclude that these 'evenings & mornings' of the first 3 days were NOT of a different nature that those evenings & mornings that occured after the sun was created.

As others have stated, Moses was writting to a general audience of common people, not of those who were of an academic class.

I can appreciate your problem of keeping the Jewish Sabbath by forcing a view onto scripture that is really not there.
---lee1538 on 10/28/11


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The use of ordinal numbers in Genesis 1 is not there for us to determine the length of a creative 'day'. That's a fundamentalist trinitarian 'Red Herring'.

The ordinal numbering of the creative days highlights that God is a God of order (1 Cor.14:33), and that the Genesis account of creation is scientifically accurate. They were pre-planned so that what was created occurred in a designated order. One event could not have happened unless the previous event had occurred.

As each event took its course according to its order- 1st, 2nd, 3rd... etc, God's purposes unfolded. True Christians play a huge part in the outworking of God's purposes for His 7th 'day'. This is why Paul encouraged Christians to 'enter God's rest'- Heb.4:10.
---David8318 on 10/28/11


Jerry- whilst I don't deny the six creative 'days', I do however believe what Moses wrote regarding creation when he said- 'For a thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night'- Psalms 90:4 (NIV).

Genesis uses ordinal numbers with reference to each creative days, which has nothing to do with the length of a creative 'day' but rank and order- it's what happen that matters, not how long it took. Fundamentalists do not understand the difference between ordinal and cardinal numbers.

To correspond with the previous 6 'days', God has not yet declared the 7th day of His 'rest' as ending with 'there was evening and morning... a 7th day'. God's time is not man's- Ex.20:8-11, Is.55:8.
---David8318 on 10/28/11


StrongAxe-Genesis 1:3-5 'And God said, "Let there be light,".....and he separated the light from the darkness God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning-the first day."

God, here defines the length of day 1, the same description/length as the following 5 creation days.

God says 1 day comprises "evening" (beginning of "night") and "morning," (beginning of light) which God/we call/s "day." Then follows "evening"-beginning of next night/day cycle.

Just as today, which can only occur if the planet rotates.

Notice I defend my belief by Scripture, you don't! Telling!
---Warwick on 10/28/11


Lee, you wrote, "We can agree that all the days beyond the first 3 periods were approximately 24 hours..." Finally you admit this!

Day 1 ends "And there was evening and there was morning-the first day."

All the other 5 days end exactly the same.

God who makes no mistakes and does not lie describes all 6 days exactly the same. Evening and morning meant one 24hr day then, afterwards,and today!

Therefore By God's word, grammar, and logic, they are all the same length.

This is confirmed by Exodus 20:8-11. But you reject this as God's word is not your authority.

I shudder to think what antiBiblical nonsense you have forced into unknowing minds!
---Warwick on 10/28/11


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StrongAxe, you wrote "how could all of them be earth-rotation days, when a few of them happened before there even was an earth to rotate?" You must be reading a different book!

Genesis 1 begins "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth..."
---Warwick on 10/28/11


Lee: "It is amazing that you claim to have a degree in Physics and yet abhor established dictionary definitions."

I do not abhor dictionary definitions. You should read more carefully. In fact, I cited your definition in my response to Cluny, wherein I asked him to show, from this definition, just which life forms were the precursors to the Cambrian life forms.

Perhaps you'd like to take a stab at answering that question.
---jerry6593 on 10/28/11


For all you 6-day Creation deniers:

Is there anything in Scripture alone that would suggest a long-age (multi-million year) interpretation, or must that influence necessarily be extra-biblical, and hence, unorthodox?
---jerry6593 on 10/28/11


... The Ediacaran period had abundant organic-walled microfossils, megascopic algae, metazoan body fossils and ichnofossils.
Now what are we moving on to?
---Rocky on 10/27/11

Can you tell us approximately where you are in Genesis one? Where man and woman made.
In Genesis two Adam and Eve are created.
You guys have my attention on the first three "GOD days" of creation. Not saying you are correct....just can't prove either way. Yet.
Adams first line used to live close to a thousand years.
Tell us who Cain married while your in the area.
Legitimate questions....no sarcasm.
---Trav on 10/27/11


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if a lying false minister embraces any form of evolution these ministers of Satan REJECT The Father in Heaven
---Rhonda 10/25/11

Rhonda....heard no mention or support of Evolution so far from anyone here.

I have heard open minded discussion and closed mind discussion on how old the earth may be.
Evolution has no transition fossils.
But there are fossils of may life forms including dino's.

I see nothing taking Christ away.
What fear have you in searching for the unknowns? You kids are being bombarded in school. You better have some answers or questions that fit facts for them....if not yourself. My kids made it through the first phase....my grandbabies will have a harder row to hoe.
---Trav on 10/27/11


//Nothing in Scripture even hints that the first three days are not the same length as everyday since.

True, nor is there anything in Scripture that says the firs 3 days had to be of 24 hour duration.

nor is there any restriction on God as to how many rotations of the earth made during these first 3 periods the Bible calls 'days'.
---lee1538 on 10/27/11


Warwick:

Even though there is nothing in Genesis to suggest that the creation days were different than all the others, there is also nothing there that says they were the same. Genesis is silent on the subject.

You also mention that they are earth-rotation days. First, Genesis doesn't mention anything about earth rotation. Second, how could all of them be earth-rotation days, when a few of them happened before there even was an earth to rotate?
---StrongAxe on 10/27/11


if a lying false minister embraces any form of evolution these ministers of Satan REJECT The Father in Heaven
---Rhonda 10/25/11
You go girl! That's telling them. Just like when the Church and Christians used to persecute those Satan inspired scientists and others that falsely taught the earth was flat, not the center of the universe, and the sun revolved around it. Imagine believing such preposterous ideas. At least back then the Church could ban and burn books to slow the spread of heresy, and burn heretics at the stake. I bet if they burned a few of them evolutionists at the stake there would be a lot less ofem. Just no good burnings-at-the-stake like there used to be.
---Rocky on 10/27/11


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nor does it speak of ancient animals from which many of our current species evolved.
--lee1538
There were not any ancient animals. The Earth is only a few thousand years old. The Bible proves that. What you really mean is ancient fossils. God in is infinite and mysterious wisdom created an evolution of bones and other fossils according to a detailed development plan he created. When he created the world he did it stratum by stratum, carefully adding the "correct" artifacts in each layer (but all in one day of course). He even created domes and other rock formations then inserted oil into them. So the only evolution was of bones and fossils and God created it.
---Rocky on 10/27/11


please explain exactly from which earlier life forms the life forms of the Cambrian layer evolved. When you have completed this assignment, we can move on.
---Jerry6593 10/26/11
Me. Me. Me. Let me answer. They came from the younger Ediacaran Period, the last period of the Neoproterozoic Era of the Proterozoic Eon, immediately preceeding the Cambrian Period. The Ediacaran period had abundant organic-walled microfossils, megascopic algae, metazoan body fossils and ichnofossils.
Now what are we moving on to?
---Rocky on 10/27/11


one cannot "love" the TRUE CHRIST (who is the WORD) yet REJECT Gods Holy Word (the spoken Word of Christ)
--Rhonda 10/26/11
I love the true Christ and never would reject any holy words or any other words God speaks to me.
Or by "God's Holy Word" do you mean a Bible?
If so, do you believe it literally or that it is inerrant or infallible?
Why? Where does the Bible itself ever say that it is whichever you chose?
And where does it ever say you can only love Jesus if you believe the Bible is literal, inerrant, or infallible?
---Rocky on 10/27/11


There is a saying "when you throw a rock at a pack of dogs, the one that yelps is the one you hit,
Very relevant here methinks!
--Warwick 10/26/11
It's pretty sad if you base your faith on that kind of logic.
When you throw a rock at any group animals or people, the one that yelps is usually the one you hit. So what? Exactly how does the analogy apply?
---Rocky on 10/27/11


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Lee, you attempt word games.

Nothing in Scripture even hints that the first three days are not the same length as everyday since. The description of the first 6 days is identical. They are all evening and morning earth-rotation days. You would have us believe that the light source determines day-length. This is simply not so!

Your thinking is clouded by your compromise with nonBiblical beliefs regarding origins.

As one who has worked in the practical scientific field in research and development I know the difference between hard science and scientific philosophies. You confuse the two.
---Warwick on 10/27/11


Warwick //In Genesis 1 and in Exodus 20:8-11 and the other 401 instances I referred to they are all 24hr days.

Obviously you fail to read what I posted.

The point made is that there is NOTHING in the Genesis account that states that the first 3 days had to be of 24 hours length.

We can agree that all the days beyond the first 3 periods were approximately 24 hours however, one simply cannot with any reasonableness state anything about the length of the first 3 days.

Apparently you have a problem with those that are scientifically oriented - something your are not.
---lee1538 on 10/26/11


No one has yet answered the question. Another way to look at t he question, "Why do christians believe in evolution/science?"

The answer is that science has convinced people (throughout school and reading of articles) that they have an answer for everything. And with the abundance of scientific "evidence" concerning life, christians tend to believe in science. They find science a lot more logical and "proven" than their belief in God. This creates conflict within the christian who must ask the same question again and again until they get a logical spiritual response.
---Steveng on 10/26/11


Lee, God disagrees with you. How dare He?

In Genesis 1 and in Exodus 20:8-11 and the other 401 instances I referred to they are all 24hr days.

I had four days holiday recently. You would have us believe no one can know if they were all of the same length.

BTW the length of 1 day is not governed by any light source but by the time the earth takes to rotate upon its axis. The time taken for a specific geographical point to return to its previous position.
---Warwick on 10/26/11


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Lee, what you must accept the length of 1 day is controlled by earth's rate of rotation. This rate does not change even if there was no light, or God's light, or the sun.

If the length of 1 day, as defined in Genesis, confirmed in Exodus 20:8-11 cannot be known language has no meaning.

For example Luke 24:46 "He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day,"

What does that mean, the third month, the third year, third thousand years, or the third unknowable period of time? Ludicrous.

You harbour unbelief concerning any parts of God's word which conflict with your human philosophies regarding origins.

As Haz has pointed out unbelief is sin!
---Warwick on 10/26/11


Warwick //Genesis ch. 1 says the days of creation are earth-rotation 24hr days, confirmed by Exodus 20:8-11.

If ones reasoning is based on the definition of 'day' - a day being the "period of Earth's rotation about axis: a unit of time equal to the Earth's period of rotation about its axis, measured either relative to the Sun solar day or the stars sidereal day then there is very little choice but to believe the first 3 creation periods were days different from the rest of the periods of creation as the sun was not created until the 4th period.

Dont you just hate it that people stick to the established definitions instead of accepting your biased theological concepts?
---lee1538 on 10/26/11


Why do some of you whine so regarding Jerry's question?

He has every right to pose a question, just as you have the right to agree, disagree, or even refrain from answering.

Is it that Jerry's question exposes your man-made nonBiclical compromises?

There is a saying "when you throw a rock at a pack of dogs, the one that yelps is the one you hit,

Very relevant here methinks!
---Warwick on 10/26/11


Lee, Jerry doesn't "claim" to have a Doctorate in Physics, he has one.

Genesis ch. 1 says the days of creation are earth-rotation 24hr days, confirmed by Exodus 20:8-11.

Note "day" is used with a number in Genesis 1. It is used likewise 410 times outside of Genesis, always meaning an ordinary 24hr day.

Does Scripture use "24hrs?" No but neither does it use 'Trinity' which I am confident you believe is Scriptural reality.

Scripture does tell us God created animals "according to their kinds." Consider the dog kind, with its numerous varieties, still the descendants of the one original dog kind. How do we know all dogs are the 1 original kind? Because they can all interbreed.
---Warwick on 10/26/11


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"the theoretical process by which all species develop from earlier forms of life", please explain exactly from which earlier life forms the life forms of the Cambrian layer evolved.
****

the "earlier forms of life theory" is simply Satanism - Satan the god of this world 2Corin 4:4 wants people to believe this LIE ...simple deception 2Corin 11:3

if one does not believe GOD created everything and his WORD is TRUE they are simply ANTICHRIST Rom 1:20 Isa 45:18 John 17:17 1John 2:22

an antichrist REJECTS the written WORD of GOD ...true believers believe EVERY WORD of GOD knowing the Word is Christ Jesus
---Rhonda on 10/26/11


jerry //When you have completed this assignment, we can move on.
---
It is amazing that you claim to have a degree in Physics and yet abhor established dictionary definitions. But I guess that can be expected from those having a spiritual sickness we call legalism.

The problem with discussing the topic of evolution is that the Bible is so very summarized that we must read into it, things that cannot be verified one way or the other.

For instance, nowhere in the Creation story does it tell us that the periods of early creation were all 24 hours, nor does it speak of ancient animals from which many of our current species evolved.
---lee1538 on 10/26/11


jerry, Lee has already answered your question.

Obviously, you're expecting a different answer.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/26/11


What is the final end for people who love Jesus but have no objections to evolution?
****

many self-professing people claim christianity and "love a jesus" unaware of the deception to WHICH JESUS they truly love 2Corin 11:4

one cannot "love" the TRUE CHRIST (who is the WORD) yet REJECT Gods Holy Word (the spoken Word of Christ)

the contradiction is evident

there is ONLY ONE TRUTH

Matt 6:24 Luke 16:9 Matt 15:8 if your mammon is evolution you have followed your GOD with the LIE of loving Christ on your lips
---Rhonda on 10/26/11


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Cluny: "Still looking for different answers from what you have heretofore received?"

Yes. I'd like to see something credible this time. I'm afraid your house cats and worms aren't very convincing. Here's an assignment for you. Borrowing from Lee's textbook definition: "the theoretical process by which all species develop from earlier forms of life", please explain exactly from which earlier life forms the life forms of the Cambrian layer evolved.

When you have completed this assignment, we can move on.
---jerry6593 on 10/26/11


What is the final end for people who love Jesus but have no objections to evolution?
---God.is.everywhere on 10/25/11


Mark 9:40
For he that is not against us is on our part.

It's called the "theory" of Evolution. A theory is unproven. If one leans to a theory from an uncertain, unresolved platform ...then one needs more proof. So did the Bereans.
Find it. There may be a time when this modern "theory" leaning world will call upon you (your kids,grandkids)to stand or discard what you have no witnesses for.

Earth is made up of matter similar to all other planets in the universe. This matter being old ....while earths form we live on is young.
---Trav on 10/26/11


What is the final end for people who love Jesus but have no objections to evolution?
---God.is.everywhere on 10/25/11


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