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Fear As Salvation Motive

Is fear a good weapon to use to get people to repent of their sins?

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 ---lee1538 on 10/26/11
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I believe you all who do not believe in free will also believe a created being has more power than God.

We are creatures of the dirt folks. so even our GREATEST of free will, cannot outdo or our-smart God.
---kathr4453 on 11/2/11


Question, Does MAN still have dominion over the earth?

Dominion:
Ruling power, authority or control.

Genesis 1:26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Who art man that thou are midnful of? Robots? NO!
---kathr4453 on 11/2/11


JackB - if God has the attribute of being omniscience - all knowing, then did He not know when He created Lucifer that He would have problems with Him?

Agree that God is not the origin of evil, however, like the Bible states He does create (or perhaps permit)what we view as evil, calamity or create disasters we have to deal with. Explain Isaiah 45:7 if you have a different interpretation.

In any case, I still disagree with Kathy view that God has permitted His creation free will that would prevent His will being done. He is the potter we are the clay (Romans 9).
---lee1538 on 11/2/11


You will not find a single place in scripture that says God created sin or our evil desire to disobey him. God hates sin. Even Satan was created in perfection until inquity was found in him. In other words, he used his God-given free will to turn against God just as all of mankind has.
---JackB on 11/2/11


"Anyone who believes God creates evil must also believe that God is both good and evil at the same time."

JackB, no one is saying God is both good and evil! GOD IS HOLY, and if you can understand that, you will have to say He indeed has the knowledge of both good and evil, that includes creating them as declared in Proverbs 16:4 and Isaiah 45:7.

You're just like CraigA and kathr, screaming and shouting they know who God is and yet have no answer or knowledge of where evil comes from since they deny that God created evil, even after God says so.

John declared, "All things were made by Him, and without Him was not any thing made that was made." John 1:3 and this is without exception.
---christan on 11/2/11




Leej, again God CREATED Lucifer, and Lucifer was created perfect, like everything else God created. It was ALL GOOD.

And this is the very nuts and bolts of free will vs no free will.

YOU say God created Lucifer Evil, or Cain evil,?

I SAY scripture teaches no such thing.

God did not create SIN. God HATES sin.

How do you CREATE a hole in a donught? YOU REMOVE, in the center of the dough, dough.

LeeJ, and I thought you read and were very intelligent.
---kathr4453 on 11/2/11


Fear should not really be the main reason but the auxiliary reason. The main reason should be the attraction of being in a joyful, peaceful, glorious place (paradise) eternally. I know for Americans there's a prestige of being honourably invited to the White-House, which is desirable than the shame of being taken to jail.
---Adetunji on 11/2/11


I really don't know what Bible most of you are reading or what religion you guys are from, but wasn't it God who created "The tree of the knowledge of good and evil" and set it in the middle of the garden? Answer, it was God who not only created the tree but put it in the middle of the garden. If God had not created that tree, with a purpose, then Eve would not have been able to sin. Disobey God. God used the tree as an instrument for His own purposes. He knew Eve would sin, for Christ was foreknown before the creation of the world as a sacrifice for sin, before man was even created. The tree of knowledge of good and evil was created by God for all things were created by Him. Please read the Bible.
---Mark_V. on 11/2/11


If one repents, they turn from sin/that which brings condemnation, but must turn TO something/GOD. I believe they turn to God who is full of mercy, and love for them, who offers hope,grace, redemption, deliverance from fear and sin, Who's paid the price. The gospel is referred to as the good news for a reason. A few on the good news: Prov 15:30, Is 40:9, Is 40, all, Is 52:7, Is 61:1, Matt 4:23, Mat 9:35, Mat 11:5, Mark 1:15, Luke 4:43, Luke 9:6, Luke 16:16, Acts 5:19,20, 29-32, 42, Acts 11, Acts 14:15,
Jesus denounced those who did not repent Mt 11:20-24. Contrast to Matt 11:25-30.("Come to me" would be to turn)
---chria9396 on 11/1/11


Anyone who believes God creates evil must also believe that God is both good and evil at the same time. That seems like dangerous ground to be treading on. Blaspheming the holy nature of God isnt something I would imagine that He takes lightly.
---JackB on 11/1/11




kathr4453//NOWHERE are we told God Created Evil, for EVIL is the opposite of GOOD.

What does scripture say?

Isa 45:7(AV, Geneva) I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

of course, we realize that God is holy and is not the origin of evil, thro He created the devil.

If you do not like the King James version or the Geneva Bible then perhaps the ESV or NIV is more suitable to your theology.

Isa 45:7ESV I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the LORD, who does all these things.

Isa 45:7 NIV I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster, I, the LORD, do all these things.
---lee1538 on 11/1/11


Evil is not a "THING" like a rock or electricitythat can be created. You can't have a jar of evil. Evil has no existence of its own, it is really the absence of good. Holes are real but they only exist in something else. We call the absence of dirt a hole, but it can't be separated from the dirt. One of the good things God made was creatures who have the freedom to choose good. In order to have a real choice, God had to allow there to be something besides good to choose. So, God allowes freedom to choose good or reject good (evil).

God is LIGHT and In Him is NO DARKNESS.

There is no such thing as darkness, because Darkness is ONLY the absence of Light.

Hate is the absense of Love.
---kathr4453 on 11/1/11


Genesis 1:31
And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.


Everything God CREATED was in teh first 6 days of creation. NOWHERE are we told God Created Evil, for EVIL is the opposite of GOOD.

Everything God made was GOOD.

So then, it's the absence of GOOD that we see evil. It's teh absense of God that we see evil.

When Adam and Eve sinned, they left GOOD and EVIL took root.

God did not CREATE Adam & Eve Evil.

If everyone OBEYED GOD, it would be IMPOSSIBLE for any EVIL.
---kathr4453 on 11/1/11


John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life.

He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
---lee1538 on 11/1/11

Let me explain this to you S L O W L Y

The people spoken of in John 5:24 have no need to fear judgment, THEY HAVE HEARD THEY BELIEVE

What did they hear: Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

they were MOTIVATED by fear of perishing, the beleived and repented

fear is not a motivation for those who beleive L O V E IS.

Fear is a motivating factor for those who DO NOT BELIEVE
---Francis on 11/1/11


Jude 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

Here's a very interesting verse.

Now Jude was saved, and one certainly not under the Law, but Grace, who also talks about the perseverence of the Saints.
---kathr4453 on 11/1/11

the previous verse speaks of mockers, not believers whom God perserves in faith.

Jude 1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

Don't you just hate the thought that TULIP is fully backed up by scripture alone?

Of course, you curse the messenger Calvin instead of the message.
---lee1538 on 11/1/11


my oh my it's possible to start another 17 topics just from the round-about non-answers to this topic

if anyone is interested in getting back to THIS TOPIC....

Holy Scripture does not support using "fear" for ANYONE to "get" someone else to repent of their sins

There is not ONE Scripture implying idea any mortal man can "get someone else to repent"



no examples of Christ "getting" anyone to repent

when one uses FEAR to motivate other adults they are simply manipulative and they entertain EVIL - THAT is logical seeing Holy Scripture is VOID of the idea of "getting" others to repent

work out YOUR OWN salvation with FEAR Phil 2:12
---Rhonda on 11/1/11


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Christan,

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace and create evil: I the LORD do all these things

Evil is that passage is "ra" and it means calamity, affliction or distress

"Evil" in that passage doesnt mean INIQUITY!! God hates sin! Does He hate the work of his own hand now?

Yes - God created distress, calamity and affliction. He uses it to PUNISH DISOBEDIENCE!
---CraigA on 11/1/11


CraigA, do you realize you'rein unbelief of God's Word even after He declares in the Scriptures:

"The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil." Proverbs 16:4, "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." Isaiah 45:7

You obviously have a problem with evil being created by God, too bad, King David simply says, "But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased." Psalm 115:3

God glories in all His creation, including the evil He created to serve His Holy purpose. And don't for once think Satan is not a creation of God or Proverbs 16:4 would be a lie.
---christan on 11/1/11


Jude 1:23
And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.


Here's a very interesting verse.

Now Jude was saved, and one certainly not under the Law, but Grace, who also talks about the perseverence of the Saints.
---kathr4453 on 11/1/11


---Francis on 10/31/11
MORE MOTIVATION:
John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

Notice that 'has' is present tense, not future tense dependence upon whether you obey the OT commandments.

In fact, you even do not have to worry about any judgment regarding your eternal life for scripture is very clear.

John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

And the way to eternal life is thru Jesus, not thru the law.
---lee1538 on 11/1/11


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lee1538 on 10/31/11
MORE MOTIVATION:
Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Revelation 2:16 Repent, or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
---Francis on 10/31/11


Christan, I never said he wasnt the creator of all things, but he doesnt create us EVIL. Our own lusts make us evil.

We were created perfect in our ways (just as the annointed cherub in Ezekiel 28 was) until iniquity is found in us.

God makes things perfect (James 1:17) and does not tempt us with evil (James 1:13, Luke 11:4)

We make ourselves that way by going after our own desires instead of God's!

That alone is evidence that He created us with the ability to decide for ourselves what we want to do.

Did God create Lucifer to rebel against him?
---CraigA on 10/31/11


//So you do agree that death is used as a motivator. good for you,
---francis on 10/31/11

And you may also truthfully say that fear is the main motivator used by most cults including Adventism to get people to obey their teachings. And that is the main ingredient in their Investigative Judgment theory.

Think of it, to Adventism Jesus alone would never be enough for our salvation despite the fact scripture states "he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them". Hebrews 7:25
---lee1538 on 10/31/11


CraigA, if you claim to know Him well and that His Spirit dwells in you, why can't you even acknowledge that He is the creator of ALL things, including evil and that He has control of ALL His creations, including you and I? And mind you, these are not even my words or that I am concocting this theory of the very being of God.

Scriptures after Scriptures have been presented to you and you still deny. I too know that God is love but not the way you think of Him and His love. This is how Paul summed it up:

"Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful, but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened." Romans 1:21
---christan on 10/31/11


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Craig, it was a poor answer you gave. You were looking to find the lack of power of God and all you got was the power of God. Of course many don't do what God wants, that is pretty obvious. You don't either. You are a good example. You are here to argue against God. And He doesn't stop you does He? You want to speak for man and His rights and you have that right. In the end it will be what was in your heart. You will be responsible for it. But even though you are responsible He already knows where you are going to end up. You cannot change that with your free will. For He is all knowing. And you would have to change His nature in order to be right. That's why you are not.
---Mark_V. on 10/31/11


"Are you sure you will recognize Jesus Christ when he comes back?" CraigA

Did Jesus say to His sheep to recognize Him when He comes?

"And when He putteth forth His own sheep, He goeth before them, and the sheep follow Him: for they know His voice. And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice, and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."


You can't even get Scripture right, it's "THEY SHALL HEAR MY VOICE", not recognize.
---christan on 10/31/11


While death may be one motivator for one to accept the Gospel message and be saved,...
---lee1538 on 10/31/11
So you do agree that death is used as a motivator. good for you,
---francis on 10/31/11


Christan, I know Him very well. His Spirit lives in me since the day I accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior.

If you think your are right about what true love is (1 Cor 13), then TEST THE SPIRITS and try this simple task: FORCE one of your children to do something you know is evil and then punish them for it and tell us how you feel in your heart.

I know when MarkV is asked to try something he typically makes an excuse as to why he couldnt or wouldnt do it. God is too busy to answer that etc, etc. Hopefully you are different.
---CraigA on 10/31/11


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CraigA, you quote James and 1 Kings 22 without even knowing and understanding who God is. Here's why. Tempting is a sin and God cannot sin and that's because He is Holy. The lying spirit in 1 Kings 22 proves that even the evil spirit is under the control of God, just like Satan was when He attacked Job but could not take Job's life as commanded by God. And these two creatures of evil were created by God - yes, to serve His Holy purpose.

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." Isaiah 45:7, "O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!" Romans 11:33
---christan on 10/31/11


--CraigA, you define God like how you would define yourself, a fallen creature who has no control over His creations. --


Actually no. I define as He says in his word. I dont take 20 verses so far out of context that they disagree with 1000s of others.

When God says he has no pleasure in the death of the wicked but would rather them turn and live, I dont make the claim he withholds repentance and salvation from people. I take him at his word.

I dont change his truth just so I am lifted up as his chosen one.

You are making the same grave mistake that the Pharisees made. When God showed up in the flesh, they called him the devil.

Are you sure you will recognize Jesus Christ when he comes back?
---CraigA on 10/31/11


Francis //how many times death is used to motivate?

While death may be one motivator for one to accept the Gospel message and be saved, Adventism really targets those who have already been saved and rarely led anyone to a saving faith in Christ.

Those of us who have been born spiritually in Christ really have no need to fear death for we have a Savior who has conquered death. John 11:25f

Adventism otoh, preaches a doctrine of works. While they say one is saved by grace, grace to Adventism is simply a provision that enables one to obey the law and thus merit eternal salvation.

If you base your salvation on works, you have every reason to fear death as if you die with unconfessed sin, you will burn in hell.
---lee1538 on 10/31/11


CraigA, you define God like how you would define yourself, a fallen creature who has no control over His creations. Far be from it! You are so void of the truth that even when truth stares you right before your eyes, you continue to deny.

"For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done." Acts 4:27,28

The death of His Son was purposed by the Father. He created Pilate, Herod and all those Jews and people on that day to fulfill His Holy purpose.
---christan on 10/31/11


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"We give scripture and when we do you rip it to pieces and say it doesnt mean what it plainly says, changing the meanings of words, often times the same word used in the exact same verse!"
---CraigA on 10/31/11

Definitely the work of the mentaly disoriented. I've seen it so many times and many times over confirmed as here. Good observation CraigA.
---Nana on 10/31/11


--Craig, that is a very poor meaning you gave God in Exodus 4:10-17--

I didnt give it any meaning other than what it reads. A child could read this passage and see that God became angry and Moses because he refused to do Gods sovereign will and even though God could have made Moses speak directly to pharoah he picked Aaron instead. God didnt lose the fight, we accomplished his will thru people that were willing to obey.

This is why likely why most dont waste their time with scripture for you "two" (ill play along). We give scripture and when we do you rip it to pieces and say it doesnt mean what it plainly says, changing the meanings of words, often times the same word used in the exact same verse!
---CraigA on 10/31/11


Christan, if it was Gods plan all along to send Aaron, then why did He become angry at Moses when Moses refused to go?

You guys make God sound like He suffers from a multiple personality disorder. One personality predestines people to disobedience and death, and His other personality gets angry at them when they follow right along with his plan? Cmon now. Youre smarter than this. Think!

God does not TEMPT us into sin (James 1:13), He ALLOWS evil to occur. This is evident from 1 Kings 22, where God is seeking someone to entice Ahab to attack Ramoth Gilead. An evil spirit comes up with an idea and God allows it! Did God make the plan? NO - the spirit did.


Does God's right hand get mad at what his left hand is doing?
---CraigA on 10/31/11


---lee1538 on 10/29/11
how many times death is used to motivate?
Ezekiel 3:18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die,
Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
John 5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.
Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Exodus 20:5 for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me,
---Francis on 10/31/11


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"God surely could have MADE Moses go couldnt he? Did you ever stop to think why he didnt? Why did He give in to Moses' whining and change his mind?" CraigA

Simple! Because it was not in His Almighty plan that Moses was going to do the talking. Whereas God predestinated Aaron to be His mouthpiece. BTW, God does not give in to man's will but rather the other way round. And Scripture contradicts your very thoughts -

"Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass, I have purposed it, I will also do it." Isaiah 46:11

Hope you stop and think through this declaration by God.
---christan on 10/31/11


Craig, that is a very poor meaning you gave God in Exodus 4:10-17 the fact is those passages speak of the Power of Almighty God, not the lack of it.
Of course Moses was whinning. So the Lord said to him,
"Who has made man's mouth?" God creates us the way He wants. "Or who makes the mute?" It is by the will of God people are born mute. "the deaf, the seeing, or the blind/" God is in control of everything and everyone even how you are going to be born. God had arranged that Aaron was to be his helper. And God was going to speak through both of their mouths. Aaron to the people, and Moses was to be to him as God.
---Mark_V. on 10/31/11


---O poor God, He didn't get what He wanted so He has to come up with another plan, just like a Hollywood movie.
---Christan

Nah, not a movie. Scripture.
Exodus 4:10-15

God told Moses to do something. Moses made excuses why he couldnt (his bad speech). God became angry at Moses....but He chose Aaron instead to speak for Moses.

God surely could have MADE Moses go couldnt he? Did you ever stop to think why he didnt? Why did He give in to Moses' whining and change his mind?
---CraigA on 10/29/11


Francis //FEAR IS A FACTOR
---
yes, indeed especially for Adventists as their salvation is basically one solely of works. That is what their Investigative Judgment is all about - a judgment of works only.

Sorry Francis you will always have your sin.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

The verse will always hold true even up to the day of your demise.

Howbeit, we Christians believe that with God all things are possible but not with man.

Mt. 19:25-26 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.
---lee1538 on 10/29/11


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It seems to me its possible to fear consequences such as hell or punishment but have no fear of the Lord.
More on repentance:
2 Cor 7:9
"Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing."
2 Cor 7:10
"For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death"
does fear bring about godly sorrow? Or convict?
---chria9396 on 10/29/11


CraigA, you flatter yourself. I don't see anyone here shoving "Calvinism" down anybody's throat. What I see is Scripture being used to contradict your very believe in "free-will". You see, conversion from a sinner to a saint is the very sole work of God the Holy Spirit. A man (who's sinner) cannot convert another man (who's also sinner).

So, once again, don't flatter yourself. I'm sure no Calvinist here is trying to convert you. And if God never elected you in Christ, the Holy Spirit ain't coming for you.
---christan on 10/30/11


Craig, for your information it is impossible to go through life without mentioning the Sovereignty of God. You want to go through life without it. But all genuine Christians cannot do what you do. Not because they are forced but because they just don't want to answer any questions and keep God out of them. After all He is our Lord and our Savior. Anything without faith is sin. Get use to it. After all He saved you, you didn't save yourself. At some point in time you will have to give Him the credit and then you will give Him the glory. Jesus Said, "without Me you can do nothing" Nothing means Zero. Nada in spanish.
---Mark_V. on 10/30/11


//2 Timothy 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear, but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
---micha9344 on 10/28/11///------Amen.

Nice.
Revering God makes me afraid to be a false witness for him and bare false witness of Him-check and balance is vital. I like this scripture, I believe God wants us to know Him and not be afraid to ask Him about-Him.

I notice You always post the scripture(s) that are to the point working well with the check and balance.


Thanks.
Blessings

Praise God for repentance unto remission.
---char on 10/28/11


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You didnt honestly think a single thread was gonna occur without Calvinism being shoved down your throat did ya?
---CraigA on 10/28/11


Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Jonah 3:4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown. Jonah 3:5 So the people of Nineveh believed God,

Ezekiel 33:8 When I say unto the wicked, O wicked [man], thou shalt surely die, if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked [man] shall die in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at thine hand.

FEAR IS A FACTOR
---Francis on 10/28/11


Isn't it fear that creates obedience in a little child?
A small child does not obey their parents out of Love, but out of fear.
But as that child gets older, if they have been raised with lots of Love, it will be the love for their parents and not the fear, that keeps them obedient.
(1 Corinthians 13:11)
When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child.
When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me.
---David on 10/29/11


"God tried to use fear in the OT but did not work." Scott1

O poor God, He didn't get what He wanted so He has to come up with another plan, just like a Hollywood movie.

Have you ever considered that those who "resisted" Him were actually created to rebel against Him? Created to be vessels of dishonor? There's no greater sin than that of rebellion or unbelief in God's Words - go ask Adam and Eve.

Even then, this rebellion has a purpose as Paul declared, "For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all." Romans 11:32 and yet God declared that He will only show mercy to those whom He love from eternity.
---christan on 10/28/11


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--The fear is that a person is not a child of God.
Heb 10:30-31 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance [belongeth] unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. [It is] a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
--What about the believer?
2 Timothy 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear, but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
--If you haven't accepted Christ, where are you going to be for eternity? Doesn't that make you at least a little fearful?
---micha9344 on 10/28/11


Pierre //I repeat what I said before.When the BIBLE refers to FEARING GOD it is talking about being RESPECTFUL + REVERENT toward the Lord.
It does not mean TO BE AFRAID of Him.

Agree and being respectful can only reflect the fact that God can do whatever He wishes with His creation.

Fear is often the means employed primarily by Holiness Movement pastors to control people especially their obedience to the pastor and their church as well as their other resources. They spend all their time preaching about fallen from grace, losing salvation and sin, seldom anything about being saved by grace and being nurtured by the Spirit of God.
---lee1538 on 10/28/11


As for the text you mentioned, Christ is talking about being afraid of those
who kill the body and soul not those who by using FEAR as a weapon try to lead others to repent of their sins.
I still believe it is bad to
use force to lead others to
Christ!
---Pierre on 10/28/11


Christian:
I fear/respect God because he designed a wondeful plan of Salvation for me not because He threatens to zap me if I don't fear/love Him.
---Pierre on 10/28/11


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God tried to use fear in the OT but did not work. Many times it says [paraphase] "If you obey these commands I (God) will remain in you but if you ignore them I will cast you out like the people you drove out of this land and I will give you over to the surrounding nations." This verse is in Deut. in Moses address.
---Scott1 on 10/28/11


Pierre, please read and meditate on this verse spoken of by Christ, "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Matthew 10:28

Does this admonishment by Christ sound like "talking about being RESPECTFUL + REVERENT toward the Lord."? Doesn't sound like it. Did you repent toward God because you feared that He can destroy and send you to hell? Or did you repent because you respected/reverent Him?
---christan on 10/28/11


Lee and Christian,
I repeat what I said before.
When the BIBLE refers to FEARING GOD it is talking about being RESPECTFUL + REVERENT toward the Lord.
It does not mean TO BE AFRAID of Him.
Read: 2 TIM 1:7
spirit of fear vs spirit of
love. ROM 8:15 spirit of bondage to fear vs the spirit of adoption. 1 JOHN 4:18 no fear in love fear has torment, he that feareth is not pefect in love (and Godd is love). ETC ETC!
---Pierre on 10/27/11


About Jesus, Peter has written >

"when He suffered, He did not threaten, but committed Himself to Him who judges righteously" (in 1 Peter 2:23) This feeds me to understand that Jesus does not use threats.

Also, we have "nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3) So, I need to reach people by means of good example, not trying to lord myself over anyone, including not using fear.

So, no fear is not God's way, unless you mean the fear of God, meaning reverence and worshipful appreciation of love for Him.
---Bill_willa6989 on 10/27/11


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Christian //And if Pierre is right, we should all throw away the Bible because Paul admonished the Christians,

"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with FEAR and trembling." Philippians 2:12
---
We, like that from our parents, need to fear (as well as welcome )the discipline of God our Father as it can be very harsh, even unto death.
---lee1538 on 10/27/11


well FEAR is always used in christianity.

all christianity does is point to sin. that everything is SIN. that is why many say that chrisitanity is a religion & performance not relationship.

ask about self - it is a sin
ask about money - it is the root of all evil
ask about suffering - it is sin
talk about women - it is lust / sin
like pat robertson everything is sin & god will punish the US. be sure to give your 10% to the 0700 club
---mike on 10/27/11


//Prov 9:10 "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding"---
Chria9396 on 10/26/11//
Amen.

Reverence for His truth-only.
Check and Balance is vital...God forbid His truth is not what comes out of our mouths.

We will be judge.
Prasie God for repentance unot remission.
---char on 10/27/11


I agree that fear of the Lord is important. However, I grew up believing in a punitive God with no balance of teaching and understanding of His mercy and grace. I was unable to REALLY see His goodness and His love. The verse I quoted below (Ro 2:4) helped open my eyes to see more clearly. As we are drawn to Him, His light reveals our natural state, our wretchedness, so we see ourselves, and sin, in light of who He is. Then it is possible to have true repentance and remission of sin.
With only the fear I learned, Id confess a list of sins, say my penance, and thought I was okbut that was not TRUE repentance, at least for me
---Chria9396 on 10/27/11


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\\St Anthony was a foolish man\\

Then so is the Bible when it says, "Perfect love casts out fear."
****

LOL I guess when you use perfect love to cast out the fear of GOD rather than how Holy Scripture uses it - TO CAST OUT the fear of this world, Satan, and mortal men

seeing St Anthony is found nowhere in Holy Scripture I'll choose to follow EVERY WORD from Holy Scripture and the verses I posted SUPPORT how foolish St Anthony was

those who worship and follow st anthony would be foolish to cast out there fear of GOD

I serve and worship The Father in Heaven and dozens of verses SUPPORT the truth of having the proper FEAR OF GOD
---Rhonda on 10/27/11


People have a tendency to fear what they do not understand. To counter fear one needs correct information, diligence to study and comprehension and God gave mankind the resources to accomplish this, failure is due to individual slothfulness [with the exception of the mentally impaired]. God chose who he wanted and rejected those that he did not want for His own reasons. So the more appropriate word for the non-elect is Regret as opposed to fear as there is no way they can ever change their fate. For that determination was made prior to their birth and God knew all, every action and inaction individual will ever take billions of years prior to the creation of the universe.
---Blogger9211 on 10/27/11


Christan is correct. Fear of God's judgment is very important for those who are lost. If they didn't fear God, then they would never have to repent, what would they fear?. But if there is Judgment, they will fear how they will be judge.
Since they are condmned already for rebelling against God. Scripture tells us believers not to fear others, but to fear God. God is love and perfect love drive out fear of others. "Fear God and give Him glory".
---Mark_V. on 10/27/11


Cluny, we are continuously reminded by the Holy Spirit to fear the Lord. But the promise from God that follows is "knowledge, wisdom and instruction", which is found in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Chria9396, Romans 2:4 speaks mainly of God's mercy, that's what "the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering" means. When God shows mercy it will "leadeth thee to repentance", by His grace through His gift of faith, because, without faith it is impossible to please Him"

Does He show mercy to "everyone"? No. "...I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion." Romans 9:15
---christan on 10/27/11


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"It's only with Godly fear that one can and will repent of his sins toward God." Fear (of the Lord) has it's place. Prov 9:10 "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding" I believe this is balanced by

Rom2:4
"Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that Gods kindness is intended to lead you to repentance? NIV
"Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?" KJV
---Chria9396 on 10/26/11


\\God does not use "fear as a weapon" as the blogger suggested in this blog posting. Maybe one should do a better job in telling us what they are trying to imply with this blog question.\\


Good point. I'm glad you emphasized it.

Proverbs says, "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom"--but we are not supposed to stay at step one, are we?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/26/11


And if Pierre is right, we should all throw away the Bible because Paul admonished the Christians,

"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with FEAR and trembling." Philippians 2:12

and Solomon in Proverbs 1:7, "The FEAR of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction."

God does not use "fear as a weapon" as the blogger suggested in this blog posting. Maybe one should do a better job in telling us what they are trying to imply with this blog question.
---christan on 10/26/11


So far I am inclinded to beleive Pierre has the closest to the right answer.

While we come to realize that God is all powerful and can do whatever He wishes with His creation including ourselves, the love He gives to us really drives out all fear.
---lee1538 on 10/26/11


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\\St Anthony was a foolish man\\

Then so is the Bible when it says, "Perfect love casts out fear."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/26/11


"Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed, and hid, that shall not be known. What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father."
Matthew 10:26-29

It's only with Godly fear that one can and will repent of his sins toward God. This comes only when the sinful is born of His Spirit, when He removes the heart of stone giving one a heart of flesh.
---christan on 10/26/11


where is it written that mortal man will "get" any other mortal man to repent of their sins?

problem with GET mentality of counterfeit christianity is false teaching to believe fear

that is why rcc created purgatory and Dante created an imaginary place called "hell"

Christ NEVER "got" anyone to repent of their sins ...not once to the Apostles "get" people to salvation

otherwise Gods Holy Word is lying instructing true believers to WORK OUT their own salvation

no mortal man can get anyone to repent no more than they can work out someone elses salvation

fear is the weapon of Satan and false religion - Christ said MANY would come in HIS name to DECEIVE - not a few
---Rhonda on 10/26/11


NO! Fear is not a good weapon to use to turn people around, unless it is Fear =
Respect.
The Lord would rather we serve Him out of LOVE, love for his wonderful gift of salvaion which He secured for us on Calvary.
---Pierre on 10/26/11


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Echoing these words, St. Anthony the Great said, "I no longer fear God, but I love Him."
****

St Anthony was a foolish man

True Believers FEAR GOD Matt 10:28 Acts 10:2, 13:16 Eph 5:21 Col 3:22 1Pet 2:17

without FEAR of GOD one cannot have HIS MERCY Luke 1:50

only the vain and proud and LIARS are taught to not fear GOD to DECEIVE MANY and follow foolish men like St Anthony those unbelievers who have NO FEAR of GOD (Rom 3)
---Rhonda on 10/26/11


It might be a first step for some people, but the Apostle John said, "Perfect love casts out fear."

Echoing these words, St. Anthony the Great said, "I no longer fear God, but I love Him."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/26/11


Jesus used the "Woe unto you" line to the Pharasies and in the Sermon on the Mount. In the Sermon on the Mount in particular, the "Woe unto you" is followed up with instruction to do right.

John the Baptist preached repentence from sin with the implied warning that if you do not repent you will have no part of the kingdom. (John 3:2)

See a similar warning in Rev 2:5 & 16.

While these could be percived as a "Repent or else" message, they are the minority compared to the "Taste and see the Lord is good." messages
---Bruce5656 on 10/26/11


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