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Spiritual Gifts Applicable Today

Are all the Spiritual Gifts listed in 1 Corinthians 12-14 applicable today? If so, what is their purpose and place?

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 ---lee1538 on 11/4/11
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question: what does jesus have to do with salvation, if we are already chosen for salvation/damnation?
---aka on 11/28/11

Those previously damned by law and death now have a mediator.
Have you ever had a lifestyle that was of death? I have. Yet you/i chose.....
Was this not known of GOD from Genesis?
Romans 7:4
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ, that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
---Trav on 11/29/11


Aka, you said,
"question: what does jesus have to do with salvation, if we are already chosen for salvation/damnation?"
Being chosen and being saved or two different things. God in His divine plan chose certain individuals to be saved. And through His plan He chose to use His Son as a sacrifice for our sins to accomplish what He purposed from all eternity. He not only used His Son, but also the Holy Spirit. All three were involve not only in creation, but in the salvation of the elect. He started with the elect within Israel and now the elect from all mankind. We are taught in (2 Peter 1:10) to be diligent, to make our calling and election sure, for if we do these things we will never stumble"
---Mark_V. on 11/29/11


Aka, as to your first comment. you are partially right. Here is where we stand. All genuine believers are born of the Spirit. All believer are partially there, but not fully there. Now, as believers, we enjoy the communion with God. We are born of the Spirit, we communion with God through prayer, by talking to Him and bringing our request to Him, we communion with Him through the breaking of bread. But we still live in this body that will die. When we receive our new bodies, we will be completely free from sin. Because God will do away with sin, so we will be fully in union with the Lord. No more temptations. Because we will be one with Christ forever. We are there, but not fully there yet.
---Mark_V. on 11/29/11


markv, if indeed the Holy Spirit (who is part of Godliness) dwell within us and Godliness has freewill, then so do we. Godliness is being perfected in us.** however, since there is an endless battle inside of us, it will not be totally perfected until our spirit is delivered from this flesh body that we have.

question: what does jesus have to do with salvation, if we are already chosen for salvation/damnation?
---aka on 11/28/11


Aka, Jesus brought us liberty, but liberty from sin, and the snare of the enemy ( 2 Tim. 2:25,26). The fact is that He liberates us from the bondage of sin, "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousnes" (Rom. 6:16), but we still do not have free will, because now as believers we are slaves to God. "But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end everlasting life" (Rom. 6:22).
---Mark_V. on 11/28/11




//Gal. 5:1, speaks only about the liberty that Christ has brought to us believers.//

exactly. by your own admission, //[Adam] was not a slave to sin before the fall. His will was free from sin. // free will...sinless. Adam lost it..through Jesus Christ, we can get it back. //Gal. 5:1, speaks only about the liberty that Christ has brought to us believers.// those who choose the conciliation. without the bridge (Jesus) whether we choose or not (not to be mistaken with free wiil), there is no salvation. because God provided the Way, we can choose or not choose.
---aka on 11/27/11


Aka, in the image doesn't mean exactly like Him in character, nature. No one is. Gal. 5:1, speaks only about the liberty that Christ has brought to us believers. And 1 John 4:16 "We have known and believed the love that God has for us." Here John is speaking of the characteristics of a believer and a none believer. Becoming a Christian is a resurrection from death to life, and turning of hate to love (Gal. 5:6,22). A lack of love indicates that one is spiritually dead. Love is the sure test of whether someone has experience the new birth or is still in the darkness of spiritual death (2:9,11). We know that Adam was sinless, because not only was he the first person, but he had not falllen in sin. Had no sin nature.
---Mark_V. on 11/26/11


//Image here is that man was made like God because he was good and sinless.// markv

Now, how did you arrive at that limited version of God's image 'scripturally' speaking. Fof God is love of which "goodness" is just a subset.

Herein lies God's image from the beginning (just to point out just a few verses): 1Jn_4:16, Gal_5:1

//[Adam] was not a slave to sin before the fall. His will was free from sin. // markv

in other words...free will.

Adam chose to sin, therefore... (to be contd)
---aka on 11/25/11


Aka, thanks for understanding that part. Now for what you said,
"Gen_1:26 And God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness..." God has free will and we were made in His image"
Image here is that man was made like God because he was good and sinless. That is why I ask Poppa Bear why he thought Adam and Eve sinned? He was not a slave to sin before the fall. His will was free from sin. Yet he sinned. After the fall no one is sinless. They are all under the curse. Their will is enslaved to sin, and their father is the devil. Their motives are to do the desires of their father the devil. They are children of wrath and don't even realize it.
---Mark_V. on 11/25/11


markv, finally, i can see now what you mean (and do not mean) by free will. you do not equate f.w. to choice. however, i can still point out scripture where man was given free will (as you explained it).

Gen_1:26 And God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness..." God has free will and we were made in His image. when adam fell, we were no longer in the image of God. God knew what He would have to do in order to make reparations.

now, to be in God's presence, we must take on the image of Christ. so, yes, we were predestined, lost it, and if we choose, we are destined in Christ.
---aka on 11/24/11




//The question hasn't been answered. Does that include John Wesley?

Wesley like many others have contributed much to the church, howbeit, his contribution was largely in the hymns he wrote. This apparently was his spiritual gift.

As to spiritual gifts, God gives them to imperfect man for His glory.

Granted that there are some who look upon the sin that is in all man, declare that God cannot use them but that is not what the Scripture teaches.

God's will will be carried out, no matter who or what we are. If we are obedient Christians He will manifest Himself more in us, then in those who feed their carnal nature.
---lee1538 on 11/24/11


The question hasn't been answered. Does that include John Wesley?

//Did the revoluntionists have the scripture right to rebell against British rule? Or was this God's will for them to establish their own government?//

Great question. Interesting how most protestants still use "submitting to authorities," which happens to includes themselves, to rule the laity.
---Rod4Him on 11/23/11


Yes one can dismiss what a long time minister teaches no matter their age or denomination for if what they teach doewsn't line up with the Bible it is false doctrine. That goes for denominational teaching which is contray to the Bible too. We must always seek God's truth and never be a respecter of persons just because of the position they hold in a church. We are told we need no man to teach us for the Spirit of Truth/Holy Ghost will lead us into all truth. Doctrines can change as quickly as the wind but the Word of God never changes.
---Darlene_1 on 11/23/11


Rod4Him//Does that include John Wesley? I don't think John Wesley was responsible for anyone's murder.
---
One notes the tremendous hymns that Wesley wrote that continues to glorify God and His church.

On the other hand, Wesley opposed the revolution in the 13 colonies that resulted in the creation of the U.S. of A. And in his sermons he pointed out the Scripture that one needed to submit to governing authorities. Romans 13.

Did the revoluntionists have the scripture right to rebell against British rule? Or was this God's will for them to establish their own government?
---lee1538 on 11/23/11


//One cannot simply dismiss a teaching from those who have spent nearly all their lives as a minister of the Gospel, and have made tremendous contributions to the theology of the church and that may include theologians that are Roman Catholic.//

Does that include John Wesley? I don't think John Wesley was responsible for anyone's murder.
---Rod4Him on 11/23/11


//That guy (Calvin)was not an ignoramus but a highly educated and respected theologian whose works has endured the test of time...//

If that's the criteria, the RCC/Orthodox must be right.
---
One cannot simply dismiss a teaching from those who have spent nearly all their lives as a minister of the Gospel, and have made tremendous contributions to the theology of the church and that may include theologians that are Roman Catholic.

Calvin drew much from his predecessors despite the fact some were Roman Catholics, especially Augustine of Hippo.
---lee1538 on 11/23/11


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Craig, you say,
" Be careful of whom you follow. Look at the fruit of this man! Was Christ a murderer"
I follow no man, but Christ, hoping you were too. What you accuse me of you do. You follow the teachings of the RCC, the Witnesess, Mormons, Islam, with works for salvation. Earning your way into the kingdom of God. let me say the RCC were murders. That is who you follow, their teachings. The Reformers faught against the teachings of the RCC with the Calvin doctrines, which are teachings from Scripture and many were murdered, burned or beheaded. Some died in prison for opposing their teachings. The Church from the beginning left the Truth of God. So before you condemn me, remove the stake from your eye.
---Mark_V. on 11/22/11


Aka, I too believe everyone has a choice.
But no one's actions (choices) are spontaneous. If we have no reason (free) for our choices, if our choices are utterly spontaneous, then our choices have no moral significance. If a choice just happens-it pop's out, with no reason for it-then it connot be judged good or bad by God. When God evaluates our choices, He is concerned about our motives. For the will to be free it must act from a posture of neutrality, with absolutely no bias. But all our choices are bias. That is why our will is not free. Only God has free will. God mentions choices, but never free will. Because He knows everyone has motives. You had a choice to answer me, but you had a motive or you would have never answered.
---Mark_V. on 11/22/11


//I was raised So. Baptist and afraid to question anything taught from the pulpit for fear I would go to hell for questioning the teachings of Gods annointed.//

It seems the Baptist types protested the RCC and became like them.

//That guy was not an ignoramus but a highly educated and respected theologian whose works has endured the test of time...//

If that's the criteria, the RCC/Orthodox must be right.
---Rod4Him on 11/21/11


CraigA //are you willing to risk your soul on following the teachings of men? If you are wrong on judgment day, "Well Calvin taught us this..." will not be an excuse.

It is really stupid and indefensible to beleive one must have all the right beliefs and correct doctrine to qualify for eternal life.

But such is the case with those Arminians who believe one can lose his or her salvaiton.

As for Calvin, virtually everything he believed in can be supported entirely by scripture. That guy was not an ignoramus but a highly educated and respected theologian whose works has endured the test of time, not that everyone agrees with everything he believed in.
---lee1538 on 11/21/11


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Mark, are you willing to risk your soul on following the teachings of men? If you are wrong on judgment day, "Well Calvin taught us this..." will not be an excuse.

I was raised So. Baptist and afraid to question anything taught from the pulpit for fear I would go to hell for questioning the teachings of Gods annointed. As I grow older in Christ and study the scripture, I find that many of the things I was taught as a child are simply not scriptural.

If the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch. Be careful of whom you follow. Look at the fruit of this man! Was Christ a murderer?
---CraigA on 11/21/11


Mat 25:3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: [choice]
Mat 25:4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. [choice]...

the scripture does not say that there was already oil in five and not in the others. otherwise, why would you label the virgins wise or foolish? a better word might be fortunate and unfortunate if there were no choice.

it's not that there are not verses, there is rather a choice to ignore them because it does not fit the doctrine.

(markv, you do not need to create an issue that is not there with me.)
---aka on 11/21/11


Craig, if it didn't offend them that God was the one that did the saving, why do they get so upset? Sometimes to the point that they change the meaning of passages to just defend a lie? Because that is what they are doing. They cannot show where God gave man free will, not one passage mentiong free will, yet they are given passages over and over of God's Word where He Himself states He chose them from the foundation of the world. That He elected them. And If they hear me mention it again, again they get angry. But one thing I can tell you Craig, I forgive you too for getting angry at me. Not because I have to, but because I want to. How you feel is your choice.
---Mark_V. on 11/21/11


---Predestination does hurt many who speak for man. They feel insulted to be told God did the saving---Mark_V

I dont recall a single person ever saying that.

Are you sure it isnt YOU are offended that God wouldnt give you eternal life without requiring you to obey a single command of the One who died for you?
---CraigA on 11/21/11


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Aka, I hope you are able to get over it. Something you can easly take care of spiritually yourself. You don't have to ask me for forgiveness, I understand and forgive all my brothers and sisters, no matter how they feel. I leave you with peace.
---Mark_V. on 11/21/11


whatever, markv

btw...it is gripe.
---aka on 11/20/11


Aka, I don't know how much you love the Lord or where you are at in your studies, one thing is certain, you have a grip and it's bothering you. Whatever it is, I had no clue there was. When a brother has something against another brother, and that other brother doesn't know, the only one effected is the one with the grip. He spiritually is bothered. And it will continue until they let it out. This way they can get rid of it from their spiritual life. It will eat you up spiritually if you keep it to yourself. I knew a youth pastor who had a grip with me for five years, I didn't even know. He came to me and ask me for forgiveness for what he felt. I forgave him because it didn't effect me but him. I hope you let it go Aka.
---Mark_V. on 11/18/11


ok, markv. whatever.

//I have no clue what you believe,//

that is true. you never stop to consider another pov before you post again. selah.
---aka on 11/17/11


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Aka, I didn't answer you. Second, I never said you didn't believe in predestintion, for I never addressed you. I have no clue what you believe, but there was no need to mention predestination to Mark E. If you wanted to make a comment concerning predestination as a Christian you should ask. Maybe someone will answer you. There was no need to answer Mark the way you did. I don't agree with everything he says, but I have respect for him. He doesn't answer many blogs but when he does, he does with respect for others.
It was you who threw a back hand slap. You have a grip with me, just get it out of your way. I will be kind enough to answer you if I can, this way you will feel better.
---Mark_V. on 11/17/11


andy3996 - while it may be true that there are more narrow-minded idiots and anti-intellectuals in your country, that does not say I called you an idiot.

You really need to be more careful in reading these posts as all too often what you read between the lines is not alway there.

I suggest we both could benefit more if we stuck to the forum thread.
---lee1538 on 11/16/11


LEE, your answers:< in your country there are more narrow minded idiots that are anti-intellectual and refuse to learn the truth. it is in your kind of country where freedom of expression is more so suppressed. We always will remember NAZI Germany
...blab blab blab...Perhaps what you need is a good mental laxative.

Pr 17:28 Even a fool who keeps silent is considered wise, when he closes his lips, he is deemed intelligent The Lord gave you 2 ears and 2 eyes but only one mouth. Therefore you should spend twice as much time in listening and seeing than in using your mouth.
---lee1538 on 11/10/11
now you'll tell me i'm lying?
---andy3996 on 11/16/11


//still in being glad that i "admit my unlearned state" you have not asked God to forgive you to call a brother idiot?

You need to review the posts, I do not see where I called you an idiot. However, one this forum one needs to be very careful with his words as there is a limit in what one can post.

Peace and have a good day and stay with us, everyone has something to offer and something to learn.
---lee1538 on 11/16/11


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Mark_Eaton, yes it was just a matter of using the same terms in different ways.

mark_v, i am convinced now that you have some kind of limitation(s) when it comes to reading and responding to the posts of others.

i believe in predestination. but, it is not as you do. i also believe that we have done/do nothing as far as salvation and the revelation of Jesus Christ goes. but again, it is not as you do.

(btw - there are other Calvinists here. if your going to deliver a back hand slap, make sure that you have the right target, that you can land the slap, and that you do not slap yourself when you miss.)
---aka on 11/16/11


Mark E you are correct, even though you didn't speak of predestination, and I'm sure you are not a Judaizer. Your answer was correct because it does depend how you interpret the actions of Jesus, as condemning, judging, or just bringing conviction to them.
I believe Aka, was speaking concerning me not you. Predestination does hurt many who speak for man. They feel insulted to be told God did the saving.
---Mark_V. on 11/16/11


i cannot find many parts of the Gospels that Jesus was speaking where he was not condemning someone directly or indirectly.
---aka on 11/11/11

I guess we see things differently or use the same words in different ways.

Was Jesus condemning people when He pointed out their sin? Was Jesus condemning the Pharisees when He pointed out their hypocracy? Or when Jesus pointed out their lack of faith?

Perhaps. I do not use the word condemn for those passages since judgment is involved in the word. Judgment has not taken place yet. Rather, Jesus exposed the truth in all men and will judge and condemn when He comes again.
---Mark_Eaton on 11/14/11


Lee, still in being glad that i "admit my unlearned state" you have not asked God to forgive you to call a brother idiot? i hope you did. that was totally uncalled for from your part. as of me, as a non-anglophonian i tend to use english words in a broader sense then anglophonians so indeed maybe narrowminded could have been wrongly interpreted by you. still looking up idiot really...
unless your to proud to admit guilt but that i donot think.
---andy3996 on 11/14/11


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//Seldom did Jesus condemn even though He could. //

i cannot find many parts of the Gospels that Jesus was speaking where he was not condemning someone directly or indirectly.

nevertheless, those who askew predestination and those who are Judaizers (in one way or another) never seem to have a shortage of words.
---aka on 11/11/11


//lee, quoted Pr 17:28.
as for me, i know I'm an unlearned that needs God's Spirit for instruction.

GOOD! and in realizing that there is yet hope for you.

There is always much to learn and even as I have read many books over the years, there is always more to learn that is useful.

Howbeit, it is those with a simple childless faith that God cherishes the most.
---lee1538 on 11/11/11


The Lord gave you 2 ears and 2 eyes but only one mouth. Therefore you should spend twice as much time in listening and seeing than in using your mouth.
---lee1538 on 11/10/11

Could say the same to you.

You seem to be at no loss for words, words that harm and do not uplift. Seldom did Jesus condemn even though He could. Rather, He sought to bring healing and reconciliation. Your words do neither.

I try to examine my motives in everything I do. Is it self-seeking, is it done out of anger, resentment, fear, or dishonesty? Self-will is only good when it aligns with God's will. It is never God's will for me to speak harshly or cruely to another person, especially a brother/sister in Christ.
---Mark_Eaton on 11/11/11


lee, quoted Pr 17:28.
as for me, i know I'm an unlearned that needs God's Spirit for instruction.
Nevertheless, idiot is only bad STILL, narrowminded is not nessecarely bad. you cannot think outside your pre conceivedbox. as the apostles where narrowminded at one time, yet Christ healed them. when i said you are, i was not trying to insult, i was trying to help. In not accepting your story has nothing to do with being a Charismatic, its only a fact that when i hear a story in five different forms from three different sources i doubt its origin. many (not all) highly educated have narrowmindism, thats why theology has become stagnant water instead, but it shouldn't
---andy3996 on 11/11/11


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andy3993//now a word has sprung to my mind about you, but unlike you i'm too much a christian to say it,//

i am less of a christian than any of you, so tell me the word and i will say it.
---aka on 11/11/11


I believe the gifts of the spirit are in operation today. Further, I believe every man is subject to the Word of God, but the Word of God is not subject to man. I believe the bible says what it says and their is not variance. However, when men are challenged by the Word of God they rememidy disobedience with new doctrine...their own!
---Leslie on 11/11/11


andy3993/now a word has sprung to my mind about you, but unlike you i'm too much a christian to say it, ...blab blab blab...

Perhaps what you need is a good mental laxative.

Pr 17:28 Even a fool who keeps silent is considered wise, when he closes his lips, he is deemed intelligent.

The Lord gave you 2 ears and 2 eyes but only one mouth. Therefore you should spend twice as much time in listening and seeing than in using your mouth.
---lee1538 on 11/10/11


lee, now a word has sprung to my mind about you, but unlike you i'm too much a christian to say it, by the way the neonazi's have more US then German adherents, so be carefull who you call a nazi down there, for we will meet in heaven.
---andy3996 on 11/10/11


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//lee, as they say in my country the bigger the degree the narrower the mind.

That is because in your country there are more narrow minded idiots that are anti-intellectual and refuse to learn the truth.

And it is in your kind of country where freedom of expression is more so suppressed. We always will remember NAZI Germany.
---lee1538 on 11/10/11


hello,Family..ICor.14:5.a. ...unless he interprets,so the church may be edified.vs6.Now, brothers If I come toyou and speak in tongues,what good will I be to you,unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction? vs.9....Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue,how will anyone know what you are saying? NIV.In short,only one time 'remember a person interpret across the room what the other was saying in tongues..
---ELENA on 11/10/11


Steven, I really don't know of any gift you might have which were greater then Christ. Not one. Can you do greater things then Christ? You have to remember He is God. He restored limbs, brought people back to life who were dead for four days. He died on the Cross and saves the lost, Can you do greater works then His? How about just one, like dying on the Cross? If you were laying down on a cross and the nail was over your hand, you would be crying and begging for Christ to save you hide. You have taken a passage and gave it your stamp of approval for everything. Sorry Steven, you are too far to the left.
---Mark_V. on 11/10/11


andy3996//, i still find it surprising that the narrowminded Catholics by now have accepted this kind of working of the Holy Spirit...

Yes, I have a few Roman Catholics as relatives and I can say that the charismatic Roman Catholics will tell you that the experience of speaking in tongues has enabled them to praise the Virgin Mary even more than before. As posted previously, most charismatics / Pentecostals know very little of the Bible and practically nothing of its doctrine.

No, I think you reject the story as you simply do not like the fact that there are problems with the charismatics, many of whom really live immoral lifestyle (re: the Bakkkers, Swaggarts, etc. etc.etc.etc.)
---lee1538 on 11/10/11


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hello! God bless bro.Mark V. have to say bro.Mark teaches well and makes it easier to understand. my grandmother she take me that churchand God get the praise and the glory,believe the brother speaks a truth.We need the word.Stand firm & Trust God! There are good points made & I believe bro.Mark has no malice at heart. May the Lord bless all.
---ELENA on 11/10/11


lee, as they say in my country the bigger the degree the narrower the mind.

again i can not accept this story because i have allready heard three versions of it. as for you having an open mind, i still find it surprising that the narrowminded Catholics by now have accepted this kind of working of the Holy Spirit. 'the renewed Catholic church' is a majority stream in Africa these days and a large minority in both the US and Europe.

your using the story of a dissident to maintain a position
---andy3996 on 11/10/11


Cluny - agree with you howbeit, I believe Pentecostals / charismatics place far more emphasis on living in the Spirit than they do on the Word of God. The fact is that the Spirit and the Word cannot be separated.

Martin Luther and the other reformers has this issue to deal with. "Scripture is the school of the Holy Spirit. Just as nothing is omitted that is both necessary and useful to know, so nothing is taught except what is expedient to know" Calvin Institutes of the Christian religion, 3.21.3
---lee1538 on 11/9/11


Mark V: "But not genuine Christians."

What about Job? He was a very godly and upright man. What about when God says he punishes whom he loves?
---Steveng on 11/9/11


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Every christian living today has the power to do the will of God. Anyone that is baptised with the Holy Spirit can perform miracles greater than Jesus and perform the gifts given. With the spirit of God, anything is possible.

Just because you don't see spiritual gifts being performed on TV that does not mean they are not being performed.

For those of you who believe that Jesus was the last prophet or are not needed anymore then you will be the one exchanging gifts for the last two prophets revealed in Revelation.
---Steveng on 11/9/11


//And, as posted before, stop insulting me and other Pentecostals by referring to us as uneducated imbeciles in doctrinal matters.

I have found very few Pentecostals that really know much about the Bible and even less about doctrine. That much can easily be seen in the leadership of nearly all Pennycostal denominations.
---lee1538 on 11/9/11


\\And, as posted before, stop insulting me and other Pentecostals by referring to us as uneducated imbeciles in doctrinal matters. \\

In my experience, MANY Pentecostals and charismatics are totally ignorant about basic B-flat Christian doctrine.

But they are VERY schooled in the latest spiritual fad.

**One of my Greek professors wandered into a charismatic tongue speaking/prophesying groups, rattled off one of the Psalm in Greek, and got an interpretation that was not even close to what he spoke. The meeting ended in complete chaos.**

I've heard a similar story about the Lord's Prayer in Greek.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/9/11


As posted before most Pentecostals / charismatics while they may know a little about the Bible, generally are totally ignorant of doctrine.
---lee1538 on 11/8/11

And, as posted before, stop insulting me and other Pentecostals by referring to us as uneducated imbeciles in doctrinal matters.

You show your love one for another not by insulting one another. If you must refer to someone other than yourself, refer to "them" and do no include proper names.

Your overgeneralizations show just how deep your cognitive thinking errors are. How can you know what "most" of any group does or does not do?
---Mark_Eaton on 11/9/11


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Andy, God has ordained all that will come to pass. Even the end is written already. Nothing changes. It is all in the plan of God. I believe the question is about the gifts of the Spirit. First, we are never commanded to go after demons or satan. We have the full armor of God to protect us when we ourselves are spiritually attacked. We could also say we have Christ to protect us. What do the lost have? No Christ. What do they need? Christ. Who can protect us? Christ. Can the gift of a tongue, singular help us? No. The fact is the gift of a tongue can only cause us more harm, sense it brings only pride in the person who claims to have it, and pride is sin. Tongues plural is for the use of preaching the gospel for the glory of Christ.
---Mark_V. on 11/9/11


.andy3996 //lee I truly doubt its a true story your narrating here, but then again, you only heard it second hand

The story was from a Greek professor Averitt college Virginia who came into my class while I was taking a course in Greek, Falls Church Virginia (1991). The charismatic group he invaded was at Arlington Assembly of God, a church that I had gone to on occasion with friends.

So the story is not a handed down one.

As for your conception that I lack an open mind, I try hard to be as informed as anyone can be as I study a variety of different subjects - 8 years formal education with major in Mathematics & Physics.
---lee1538 on 11/9/11


markV. it seems to me that God allows about everything going on, and yes he does that to form and mature us, nevertheless noone should say that evil is from God
---andy3996 on 11/9/11


I can only speak for my spiritual gifts which are discerning of spirits, faith and giving.

The gift of discerning of spirits is for the purpose of prayer. The Lord will show you something about a person and you "discern" it and then begin to pray for that person.

The gifts of faith is when you pray and ask God for something you know that you know He's going to work it out for you. It may not be the way you think, but in your knower, you know He'll work it out no matter what the circumstances look like.

The gift of giving is a fault with me. I give too much money and "stuff" away very easily. It's actually a fault with me.

I can't speak for the other gifts, I don't have them.
---anon on 11/9/11


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Andy, the devil does know what he is doing. But he does only what God allows or permits him to do, no further. God is in control not the devil. God might allow him to torment someone, but he can only go as far as God permits him. He is the god of this world, because the world is under his spell. They do the desires of their father the devil. But not genuine Christians. Their Father is God. And they do the desires of their Father God.
There is evil spirits out there alright, and they are at work speaking for their father. Many people are possess because they don't know God as their Lord. They need to be saved. That's why we are called to preach the gospel.
---Mark_V. on 11/8/11


Brother Leej, I also believe their is tongues, plural. Not many have them. I'm sure if the conditions were right, and someone found himself in a country where he didn't know the language, and God wanted to use him to bring the gospel to someone God wanted to save, that person would be granted the ability to speak in the other persons language to accomplish the purpose of God. I'm sure it's happened many times. But I believe most of those times it does happen we never hear of them. Not like they did during Jesus time because at that time they were to bring the gospel message before we had the New Testament.
---Mark_V. on 11/8/11


lee i truly doubt its a true story your narating here, but then again, you only heard it second hand so thats not your fault. on the other hand reading many of your posts it is very astounding that indeed you seem a man that has some familiarity beyond the base as most of us, yet you lack one thing, an open mind. (not refering to the bible) i pray that God may grant you new discoveries beyond that what you've studied in books, and as Jesus said to a priest your not far away from eternal life.
---andy3996 on 11/8/11


//MarkV- For gibberish is not another language. No way of knowing what they are saying, and by what spirit are they doing what they are do.

While I believe most of what we heard in the Pentecostal churches or charismatic groups is gibberish, but there have been times when what I heard sounded like one of the known languages.

One of my Greek professors wandered into a charismatic tongue speaking/prophesying groups, rattled off one of the Psalm in Greek, and got an interpretation that was not even close to what he spoke. The meeting ended in complete chaos.

As posted before most Pentecostals / charismatics while they may know a little about the Bible, generally are totally ignorant of doctrine.
---lee1538 on 11/8/11


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Deffenately yes, and deffenately many false prophets and "ministers" are disturbing the true body by which billions good faithfull Christians are now affraid to use the gifts from God just in case they serve the devil.

who said the devil doesnt' know what he's doing?
---andy3996 on 11/7/11


I myself am more scared when people begin speaking in a tongue. Plural. For gibberish is not another language. No way of knowing what they are saying, and by what spirit are they doing what they are do.
If someone does possess a gibberish and that makes him study harder, then the question is, why are they studying harder? What is their motive? Are they doing it for the glory of God or to justify why they speak in a tongue? The RCC has many traditions not found in Scripture, and they study hard to justify their traditions by studying picking passages out of context to support their traditions. They have a motive, but not for the glory of Christ. How does speaking in a tongue edify anyone other then the person who speaks it.
---Mark_V. on 11/7/11


Rob //Lee, you have given a perfect discription of the people you see on TBN, and Daystar, who claim to be people of God, but they are not, 2 Corinthians Chapter Eleven.

Yes, and like those that have fallen - the Bakkers & the Swaggarts, they claim to be people of God because of their speaking in tongues experience. But we must beware of these kinds of people as it is apparently sooner or later that they know little of Biblical doctrines. Their main goals is really money money money. Yes, I also am frighten of the people that fall into their nets.
---lee1538 on 11/6/11


Lee, you have given a perfect discription of the people you see on TBN, and Daystar, who claim to be people of God, but they are not, 2 Corinthians Chapter Eleven.

They also claim to be sharing the Gospel, but what they are sharing is not the GOSPEL OF CHRIST JESUS, Galatians Chapter One.

What is so very sad is so many people, including people from my own family will listen to, believe what these people say, and fall for that mess, yet you can never get them open a Bible and study for themselves.
---Rob on 11/6/11


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Since there are many false prophets gone into the world, we must be very careful and hold scripture to be our main guide. All too often they bring into the church doctrines not found in the early church.

For instance, false prophets are often puffed up by what they claim to be visions from God, that they have the gift of prophecy. However they are often found to be contrary to the truth as taught by the church since its conception.

Such was the case of one who claimed that Christ would come again in October 1844 and that the door was shut on those who did not accept her visions.
---lee1538 on 11/6/11


Our Apostle Peter says, "As each one has received a gift, minister it to one another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God." (1 Peter 4:10) So, a gift is not only an outward ability to show. But, deeper, each operating gift is the Holy Spirit spreading God's own grace to make us more and more like Jesus. So, any gift that God desires is essential. A true gift is not about status and practical ability, then, but is deeper the Holy Spirit working to build us up in Jesus as His body.
---Bill_willa6989 on 11/6/11


I think that many of the gifts are manifested in different parts of the world according to the needs of that particular people weather to testify to Gods grace, or testify to His judgment. One gift I do not feel is still active is the office of Apostle. From what I understand, a true apostle was a person who actually had direct communication from Jesus, or saw our Lord during His ministry, or in resurrection form. Also, the Apostolic authority and gifting was needed before we had the written testimony/revelation of the Gospel, but the fact that we have that precious testimony now is miraculous, and the written testimony has with stood more persecution than even the Apostles did.
---Poppa_Bear on 11/6/11


Cluny //I heard a man "ministering in prophecy" in an independent charismatic church who not 10 minutes before had denied the physical Resurrection of Jesus Christ--and people were swallowing his garbage.

Yes, it has been my experience also that so many charismatics are lacking in knowledge of the Bible.

My older church lost its head deacon when he experienced speaking in tongues. While the minister in his sermon stated he believed all the spiritual gifts were for believers today, he simply did not want that in his church.

On the other hand, I have seen many being driven into deeper study of the Bible as a result of that experience.
---lee1538 on 11/5/11


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Christan - yes the ultimate objective of the Christian life is to demonstrate love towards others as law of neighbor fulfills the law Romans 13:10.

Cluny, If you dig around in your church manuals you will find that the Eastern Church has regulations regarding speaking in tongues as it was in past times something that was practiced by many in that church, mostly by those in monasteries.

I believe all the spiritual gifts are applicable today howbeit, order must be maintained within the church so there is little room for most of the sign gifts.
---lee1538 on 11/5/11


"Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail, whether there be tongues, they shall cease, whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away." 1 Corinthians 13:8

"Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe." 1 Corinthians 14:22

"For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith." Romans 1:17

Does one living by faith need to see a miracle before his eyes? One in this present time did not see Jesus raising Lazarus, but by faith he believe. That's faith.
---christan on 11/4/11


There are demonic manifestations of speaking in tongues such as with Hindus. Some pagan cults handle snakes. And demons can help fortune tellers.

The real question is what DOCTRINE comes with this or that sign?

I heard a man "ministering in prophecy" in an independent charismatic church who not 10 minutes before had denied the physical Resurrection of Jesus Christ--and people were swallowing his garbage.

An related question is what is the fruit of this or that sign in the lives of the people involved.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/4/11


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