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Development Species Bible

Does the Bible anywhere hint of multi-million year development of the species?

Moderator - One day creation per species.

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 ---jerry6593 on 11/10/11
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Miltons Paradise Lost seems to give a glimpse as best as I imagine human words can ever do into a life before sin tainted the world and poisoned the well spring of all life. But after the fall Can you picture Adam looking down at his dirty scratched up hands feeling pain, seeing blisters, back aching as he finished plowing a field for the first time? Can you hear the horrifying screams as Eve cried in fear, giving birth through waves of fierce ripping pain clawing her entire body? Their morning must have been deep indeed, no recorded communion with God, death of not only plants and animals, but their own son Able all because of sinful disobedience.
In His loving grip
---Poppa_Bear on 11/16/11


Poppa: I agree. I think that everything changed when sin came in. I believe that Adam must have wept when he saw the first leaf turn color and fall, knowing that his own sin caused it all.
---jerry6593 on 11/16/11


That is interesting, but I wonder what plant biology was like prefall? Paul says that the earth groans as it waits for its new garments, maybe pre fall, photo synthesis, nutrient uptake and so on were different, perhaps a super efficient vegetation differant than what we've ever scene, with life existing under a perfect atmosphere that we cant even imagine? Death came into the world through Adam, was that just to human species or to all living matter? Did animals experience sickness, was Gods light before the sun unable to maintain photo synthesis, did plant genetics change when God cursed the earth and Adam would have to toil to eat from the ground by the sweat of his brow?Faith is a beautiful thing!
---Poppa_Bear on 11/15/11


Cluny: "Are you saying that a single-celled organism, like a euglena, is as complex as a woodpecker?"

I am saying that even micro organisms are mind boggling in their complexity. Your inference that big animals came from smaller animals is a silly darwinian notion that gave us such laughable "science" as the Marsh Horse Series.



Micha: "The plants were made before the sun came into our solar system"

You raise an interesting point. If the plants were created on day 3 of Creation, and the earth took millions of years to rotate on this day (with God as the light source), then half of the plants would be frozen and the other half burned up in just a relatively short time.
---jerry6593 on 11/15/11


The plants were made before the sun came into our solar system so that we could revolve around it?
Only dirt and plants were here when the birds came along..speaking of the woodpecker...made on the fifth day.
How long was this day that the sun was appearing an disappearing just once?
an evening and a morning...the fifth day.
---micha9344 on 11/14/11




\\That's because you are looking for it. Now, why would that be? You need to understand that there is NO SUCH THING as a SIMPLE living organism.\\

Are you saying that a single-celled organism, like a euglena, is as complex as a woodpecker (which someone here mentioned already)?

Of course, you don't see patterns in Scripture that contradict your own view because you refuse to recognize them.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/14/11


Thank you Jerry.
In His loving grip
---Poppa_Bear on 11/14/11


Cluny: "This is the pattern I see in Genesis 1."

That's because you are looking for it. Now, why would that be? You need to understand that there is NO SUCH THING as a SIMPLE living organism.


Peter: "The genetic idea is that a change occurs, and may cause either benefit (very rare) or damage (usually)."

If mutations were indeed creative, then we should have seen hundreds of superhumans emerge from Hiroshima.


Poppa Bear: Your "argument" is spot on.
---jerry6593 on 11/14/11


Here is an argument to chew on Cluny. Gods creation was good, complete and not susceptible to death and sickness. Therefore random mutations which are genetic disturbances in the DNA, a DNA that is susceptible to destructive changes could not be part of His initial creation until sin entered into the world and all living species/DNA via the fall. How does my argument and premise sound? I dont expect them to sound perfect, LOL. I would say that Genetic/bio evolution could only take place after the fall, IE after sin was introduced into the world and all flesh/DNA became vulnerable to random mutations for better or worse.
125 words can be so limmeting, GRIN!
In His grip
---Poppa_Bear on 11/13/11


Cluny: 'evolution is the orderly and progressive development from simpler to more complex forms.'

Only in 'popular evolution'. Genetic theory ONLY. The genetic idea is that a change occurs, and may cause either benefit (very rare) or damage (usually).

It's not an idea I'd trust for a moment to produce ME!
---Peter on 11/13/11




OTOH, as I was taught in college, evolution is the orderly and progressive development from simpler to more complex forms. Is this on a micro level, or macro level? Meaning were the mutations slow gradual changes that were based on environmental circumstances? Or a super natural mutation on a macro scale, God developing species in a rapid accelerated biological rate that superseded time and environmental factors? Where in Genesis do you get your conclusions? I would like to study the context when I have some extra time on my hands.
In His grip
---Poppa_Bear on 11/13/11


\\evolution isnt based on theories of random development from what I understand.\\

I thought the present understanding WAS based on theories of random mutations.

OTOH, as I was taught in college, evolution is the orderly and progressive development from simpler to more complex forms.

This is the pattern I see in Genesis 1.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/13/11


No. "For a thousand years in your sight that yesterday when it is past, and a watch in the night. Now upon this let not be hidden from you, beloved, that one day of Lord that a thousand years, and a thousand years that day one." Ps.90:4+ II Pt.3:8. Jesus made the water species and the flying species on the fifth day, and Jesus made the land species and the human species on the sixth day. Gn.1:20-31.
---Eloy on 11/13/11


If you believe that the changes are NOT random, and God is in control, then what? Cluny evolution isnt based on theories of random development from what I understand. Perhaps you are referring to a theistic evolution? You need to give me more to work with to know what youre asking. Are you saying that it evolved quicker than a trillion because God did it? Is it still Inteligent design within a 5billion year timeline? That God didnt create species according to the accounts given in Genesis? Again, not sure what you are asking. I believe the 6 day account found in the Bible myself.
70x7
---Poppa_Bear on 11/12/11


Nurse Roberts, the answer is found in the interesting makeup of the woodpecker and the proposed theories of evolution that would have to fall into place in order for such a development to take place. The time Ive spent reading on just this aspect of creation/intelligent design cant be condensed into 125 words, but the information is readily at your finger tips and you can do the research on your time if youre really interested and then refute my assertion, or conclude that what I said is in fact a reliable statement. Maybe give it a try and get back to us.
In His loving grip
---Poppa_Bear on 11/12/11


This might be so, Poppa_Bear, if you believe that the changes are random.

But if you believe that the changes are NOT random, and God is in control, then what?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/12/11


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The mathematical/statistical probability for even the formation of something as small as a woodpecker, according to evolution would have taken wellllll over a trillion years to develop.....
---Poppa_Bear on 11/11/11

And your basing this statement on what???
---NurseRobert on 11/11/11


The mathematical/statistical probability for even the formation of something as small as a woodpecker, according to evolution would have taken wellllll over a trillion years to develop, let alone the complexities of the human eye, DNA, the galaxies, solar systems and earths atmospheres. Now most modern evolutionist only think the world is 5-billion years old. This is not a new idea, look at the deck of cards argument. Even, Ilya Prigogine, chemist-physicist, recipient of two Nobel Prizes in chemistry, wrote: The statistical probability that organic structures and the most precisely harmonized reactions that typify living organisms would be generated by accident is zero. Is this Creation VS evolution or a Theistic evolution question?
---Poppa_Bear on 11/11/11


\\Does the Bible anywhere hint of multi-million year development of the species\\

Right after it gives permission to use computers and printing presses.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/11/11


Jerry, you changed subjects? i see you'r talking for once about anything else but evolution.

to answer your question, everything that has been said before.
---andy3996 on 11/11/11


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by posing this question over and over in different forms, you have convinced me that there is no development of the species.
---aka on 11/11/11


Cluny: "You seem to ask this same question in various forms every two weeks or so."

Yes. Isn't it great? Actually, the record for filling up the 75 entry limit and reposting is 3 days. And as usual, you are the first respondant with your usual complaint. I would think that you would look forward to these blogs as an opportunity to give

"Glory to Charles Darwin!"
---jerry6593 on 11/11/11


Oh, are you talking about evolution for a change, jerry?

You seem to ask this same question in various forms every two weeks or so.

You asked it last just the first of this month.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/10/11


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