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What Is God Of Israel

What is meant by 'the Israel of God' mentioned only in Galatians 6:16?

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 ---lee1538 on 11/11/11
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kathr4453 //is truth based on a majority vote?

While truth is not always the majority position, it is usually the minority position that is rejected largely because it has the least defense either in scripture or in church history.

I pity the poor simpleton that believes the minority position always has to be the correct one.
---lee1538 on 11/17/11


Christan:
Salvation 101
Election need no faith. No one had to believe in the birth of Jacob to be imputed righteousness.
Abraham believe in the promise of a son, Just as we believe in the Promise of Gods Son.
Romans 4:24
But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead,
1. Romans 4:3
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Galatians 3:6
Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
James 2:23
And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
---kathr4453 on 11/17/11


kathr4453, what was spoken by Jeremiah is no different from anything that is said in the NT. christan.//

Christan, PRAISE GOD. Jeremiah 26 ( THE WHOLE CHAPTER))and all of Jeremiah, is that there are consequences of disobedience. God CAN remove your blessings and you can LOSE your inheritance. They LOST the Land God gave them. The Babylonians invaded and Rome ruled over israel, Even till this day, until 1948 Israel lst their inheritance.

God also promised...I will AGAIN CHOOSE JACOB AND BRING THEM BACK TO The LAND.ISAIAH 14.

So Christan, WHY are THOSE words any LESS true or important? God already told us He will do this. He again told us in Romans 11 He still will do this. THIS IS the Israel of God.
---kathr4453 on 11/17/11


You also cannot just say you are a child of God without even explaining how the sinner becomes a child of God - because it is explained in the epistles. That's the meaning of "diminish not a word."///

HOW one becomes a christan is NOT the SUBJECT of this blog.

Are you still on milk, or are we discussing the MEAT of the word among those who profess to be MATURE Christians. 1 Corinthians 2:6-16

I realize one cannot eat meat if they are wearing FALSE TEETH either, and need their meat cut up into tiny tiny pieces for them. THEN one must chew it for them first to soften it up and then put in in their mouth.

Which one are you? You seem to have many excuses for avoiding the subject matter.
---kathr4453 on 11/17/11


Christan, you are correct, the OC is being fulflled in the New Covenant. The New Covenant is in fact a NEW dispensation of How God deals with man.

However there is more of this NEW COVENANT that is yet to be fulfilled. Ezekiel 36 has yet to come to pass, also included in the New Covenant promises. THAT part of the New Covenant will be fulfilled at the second coming of Christ.

Paul too confirms this in Romans 11. and prays for teh Israel of God in Galatians.

Zechariah 12-14, Matthew 24-25 and many many more scriptures.
---kathr4453 on 11/17/11




LeeJ, is truth based on a majority vote?
Scripture teaches scripture, Majority votes don't!
The majority voted to have Jesus Crucified too!
---kathr4453 on 11/16/11

An astute question. Would think a majority would fit in the wide way rather than the narrow.
Yeah, you could make a long line in the narrow....but someone puffy will insist they are the preacher, and should head the line. Ha.

Follow christ rather than any poser.

Matt 7:13
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, many there be which go in thereat:

Matt 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
---Trav on 11/17/11


kathr4453, what was spoken by Jeremiah is no different from anything that is said in the NT. Basically, one cannot simply say that God loves everyone and wants to save everyone without even understanding that His love is an elective love, as demonstrated in the lives of the twins Jacob and Esau.

You also cannot just say you are a child of God without even explaining how the sinner becomes a child of God - because it is explained in the epistles. That's the meaning of "diminish not a word."

Judging from your tone, you have so much anger about Calvin's theory of election and predestination. But one must agree, he believes what he believes but it shouldn't upset you to a point of hating your enemy.
---christan on 11/16/11


The Church is no longer in the flesh. The CHURCH, Born Again Believer, a NEW CREATURE who's flesh has been crucified with Christ. We are a heavenly being now in Christ.Colossians 3:1-4

Israel the nation is however after the flesh.

Gentiles saved through the tribulation period, after the rapture are called the residue of men. Acts 15:16-18
16After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down, and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

17That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
---kathr4453 on 11/16/11


Conclusion: the majority of posters hold the view that the Israel of God refers to the body of Christian believers, both Jew & Gentile in the flesh, specifically the church.
---lee1538 on 11/16/11


LeeJ, is truth based on a majority vote?

Seeing the backgrounds of most You argue with all the time, funny how that matters now.

Scripture teaches scripture, Majority votes don't!

And I see the majority don't believe in dispensations either. THAT is really the bottom line on the issue.

THOSE who believe in the rapture of the Church, who do not believe in Replacement Theology are really not a majority either. I'll agree with Chafer on this one.

The majority voted to have Jesus Crucified too!
---kathr4453 on 11/16/11


Conclusion: majority of posters hold the view that Israel of God refers to the body of Christian believers, both Jew & Gentiles(Ethnos/Nations) in the flesh, specifically the church.
---lee1538 on 11/16/11

Conclusion: The minority establishing by scripture,state (Ruling with GOD) will be the same 12 Established since Jacob. In minority here being, all the Prophets of the Old Covenant and Apostles of the New.
Heb 9:15
For this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, by means of death, for redemption of transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Joel 3:16The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem,...
---Trav on 11/16/11




10 were given "the vessel" to see and be recognized. five were ready, five were not.
why?
choice
...to not get oil (oil in bible is usually reference to the holy spirit). the scripture says "be filled with the Spirit" [choice
---aka on 11/16/11

Interesting, this. If they had been "wise" they would have made the proper decision.
So if wisdom is something that can be attained...but is not for some excuse or another that is a choice also. Right?

The opposite of foolish is wise.....is what I'm saying. If I'd have been wiser...I'd avoided may troubles in my life personally.
See lamps/scripture refused many times here. But, what use is a lamp to the blind?
---Trav on 11/16/11


Conclusion: the majority of posters hold the view that the Israel of God refers to the body of Christian believers, both Jew & Gentile in the flesh, specifically the church.
---lee1538 on 11/16/11


Mat 25:3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: [choice]
Mat 25:4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. [choice]
Mat 25:5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. [choice]

10 were given "the vessel" to see and be recognized. five were ready, five were not.

why?

choice

...to not get oil (oil in bible is usually reference to the holy spirit). the scripture says "be filled with the Spirit" [choice]

and not "some of you are filled and some of you aren't...for those of you that aren't are foolish"
---aka on 11/16/11


Conclusion:

Why are we both "begotten" and "adopted"?
Here's the differences.

If we were only adopted and not begotten we would not have had a change in nature.

But because were begotten again of the incorruptible seed of His Word, we are partakers of His divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 2 Peter 1:4.

As John said, "Whosoever is begotten of God sinneth not, He keeps himself from the world, and the wicked one touches him not" 1 John 5:18.
---kathr4453 on 11/16/11


You know christan, God promised Israel Land, that was their inhetitance. BUT what happened to those who were promised the land who never entered in? Did God fail, or did man?

Paul stood on the steps of Rome and said,

THE INHERITANCE are to those who are sanctified by faith in Christ.

Sanctification requires OBEDIENCE on our part.

Oh how calvin cheated you all.
He lied, and cheated you all. That's why you are totally blind to anything stated here, and poke fun as well. Because you KNOW you don't really have it, and you don't want anyone else to have it either.

With our Salvation COMES RESPONSIBILITY!!!MAN"S PART!
---kathr4453 on 11/16/11


God sent Paul to Rome and said stand in the court and say this: He didn't ask him to quote Jeremiah...but this:

Acts 26:18
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.


I wonder christan, had you were born then, a Roman earing this spoken at that time by Paul, long before anyone was corrupted by calvins TULIP LIES that totally contradict Paul here, who would you be IN CHRIST THEN.

Same God, yesterday, today and tomorrow. THIS VERSE applies to TODAY as well as 66AD.

God sent Paul to OPEN THEIR EYES, by preaching the Gospel!!
---kathr4453 on 11/16/11


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The Gospel according to the mystery was HIDDEN in the OT and not revealed until Jesus rose from the dead.

Jeremiah wasn't teaching or referring to this Mystery. He was referring to Israel's DISOBEDIENCE at that time.Jeremiah WARNED Israel

Then the Babylonians took over, JUST AS GOD SAID, that they would be taken over by Babylon.

Jeremiah prophesied 18 years and no one listened....MAN"S RESPONSIBILITY!

Here is the verse:

Jeremiah 26:2
Thus saith the LORD, Stand in the court of the LORD's house, and speak unto all the cities of Judah, which come to worship in the LORD's house, all the words that I command thee to speak unto them, diminish not a word:

Little different than Paul's RIGHT!
---kathr4453 on 11/16/11


Christan, is that possible with 125 word limit?

I believe you are finding excuses because you have difficulty understanding any of God's word.
---James on 11/16/11


kathr4453, the one glaring problem with your sharing and testimony is that it comes across to one as totally man-god centered and not totally God-centered. Salvation is ALL 100% God's work and the sinner is the beneficiary of God's mercy and grace, period.

The whole will of God is ALL revealed to His people in the Holy Bible. You pick and choose to use verses to your convenience and not share everything that the apostles have taught. As God told Jeremiah, so we are to harken onto His Word,

"Thus saith the LORD, Stand in the court of the LORD's house, and speak unto all the cities of Judah, which come to worship in the LORD's house, all the words that I command thee to speak unto them, diminish not a word."
---christan on 11/15/11


You know, there are some who believe THEY are the Body of Christ all by themselves. That every Gift is given to them alone, also believing they are the head as well.
They have ZERO uneerstnding about spiritual gifts given to ALL who are baptized into Christ. They say..I have no need of you. So very arrogant.

But don't get discouraged Christian friends. even if you are a BABY, God NEEDS you in the body to HuMBLE those who say they have no nned of you, or are arrogant, or think they are all that.

When the eyes say I don't need the big toe, can they balance when they walk? Or walk with a limp?

Well, maybe some are the arce, who knows! Every body NEEDS an arce!
---kathr4453 on 11/15/11


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The god of the Old Testament is the same as who is called "the god of this world" in the New Testament.
---John.usa on 11/15/11


Adoption again is our LEGAL standing just as Justification is our legal standing.

Note that we are adopted "AS SONS".
And here in this passage we have one of the strongest arguments. The wording here is clearly masculine. The word is huiothesia. It means, literally, "to be placed as a son. And in Galatians 4:4 the word is translated "the adoption of sons. The word is clearly masculine. Not merely adoption as children, not as sons and daughters, but adoption as sons. Yes, God created us male and female. But as it concerns our inheritance, we who are in Christ, men and women and boys and girls alike, are adopted by God as sons, giving us that LEGAL right as Joint heirs.
---kathr4453 on 11/15/11


Christians are "legally" adopted as sons into Gods family. Paul uses the term adopted as sons to write to the believers in Rome, where they would have understood this in a specific context. Under Roman law, if you were an adopted son, you had identical legal rights to a son born naturally in the family. An adopted son had the right to the family name of the person who adopted him and the right to an inheritance of the fathers property.

The use of Adoption is our "Legal" standing as joint heirs with Christ, in our Inheritance...not in the context of your spiritual birth.
---kathr4453 on 11/15/11


LeeJ, I do know of teh DOCTRINE as I see you just haven't gotten it yet.

The ONLY time Scripture even uses ADOPTION is in reference to our inheritance, not our salvation.

It's really enough to be SAVED, however to be Joint Heirs WITH Christ is altogether another matter!
---kathr4453 on 11/15/11


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Colossians 3:24
since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving.

SO Does God REWARD YOU for just being saved.

Get real!
---kathr4453 on 11/15/11


christan - You need to forgive Kathryn as she is still on a learning curve as for doctrine.
---lee1538 on 11/15/11

Learning? Have seen some. Confused. Lonely. Bitter. Searching. No husband to control the driver.

Typing finger doctrines totally out of control.
Instruction....not even fear of GOD has an influence on her. Certainly not a Prophet or Apostle.
Forgive....yes.
Prayer....yes. As all need at some point of the afflictions above.
---Trav on 11/15/11


christan - You need to forgive Kathryn as she is still on a learning curve as for doctrine.

She once stated that all we need is Jesus, not doctrine.

Jesus stated in John 7:17 "If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself."

Doctrine is really a codification of teachings or instructions.

You are correct in what you posted about adoption. It simly means to be recognized by God as an adult son (or daughter) positionally at salvation.

All believers become adopted as sons (or daughters) at salvation.

Being in union with Christ, we are joint-heirs with Christ, and are therefore adopted at the moment of salvation, Gal 3:26.
---lee1538 on 11/15/11


We are member of HIS BODY? Whos Body? Christs.
Our son-ship is because we are IN HIM. In WHO? IN CHRIST.
Acts 17:28
For in him we live, and move, and have our being, as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
Because God has sent forth the Spirit of WHO? Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
We are NEVER apart from Christ.
Faith?? HELLO, does one need to lay the elementary foundation of FAITH EVERY TIME this is discussed?
TO AS many as receive HIMWHO? Jesus Christto them gave the power to become THE SONS OF GOD.
---kathr4453 on 11/15/11


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Because you obscure the true meaning of BORN AGAIN as just some spiritual enlightening to believe in Him, explains why understand what it is to be BORN AGAIN "of the Risen Christ". You wouldn't understand to be begotten again "by the resurrection of Jesus Christ".

YET, you claim to be Gods ELECT, but have no clue what you are ELECT FOR, or even the Hope of Your calling.

You know NOTHING about the fellowship of His Sufferings or WHY it's so important.

YOU poo poo everything I have shared with you, PROVING you are no more God's elect than the man in the moon.

You have been brainwashed with key words of scripture and don't even KNOW what it means.
---kathr4453 on 11/15/11


kathr4453, seems you have no knowledge about the doctrine of adoption, though you profess to be "fool" of it. One becomes a son of God ONLY through ADOPTION in Christ as taught by Paul. This only happens if you are found in the "covenant of Grace" prepared by God for Christ before the foundations of the world.

One receive the SON-SHIP through ADOPTION by FAITH, which you failed miserably to mention. You are not directly "begotten through Christ" but by FAITH! For if you were "begotten through Christ", He would have been your father and not your brother as Christ tells His disciples.

Basically, you are all over the place with your "sonship" and your own concept of election.
---christan on 11/15/11


BEGOTTEN BORN: Strongs 1080 gennao
Verses using 1080
Which were(( born1080Born of God, ))not born of the will of God, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God

-- Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man ((be born1080again )), he cannot see the kingdom of God.

That which is born1080of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born1080of the Spirit is spirit.

For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son , this day have (( begotten 1080)) thee? ---
1080 BORN BEGOTTEN:
a) of God making Christ his son
b) of God making men his sons through faith in Christ's work
---kathr4453 on 11/15/11


Jesus Christ is the Begotten Son of God and he is sitting on the throne of God on the right hand of God the Father. If we become Gods begotten sons/daughters, then we will be joint-heirs with Jesus Christ to sit on the throne of God with Jesus Christ to rule with him. **Rev 3:21

Are you begotten of God? "1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, ---

Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs, heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ, if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
---kathr4453 on 11/15/11


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Hebrews 2:10
For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

When you received Jesus Christ, you received MORE than just having your sins forgiven. You received SONSHIP THROUGH Jesus Christ.

You have been BORN of the Spirit of the LIFE of Christ, BORN/begotten of God THROUGH JESUS Christ.

I am really amazed at how little you all really know about your ELECTION.
---kathr4453 on 11/15/11


kathr4453, thank you so much for using 1 John 5:1 to contradict your understanding when you said, "I am a begotten son through Jesus Christ." What 1 John 5:1 clearly state is, Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God..." which means that it is by faith that one believes that Christ is God.

Let me use the NIV version for your benefit as the English is made simpler, "Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.

Verse 4 says, "For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world, it does not say "For whosoever is begotten of God". For ONLY Christ was the begotten Son of God...
---christan on 11/15/11


Kathr, you again make a mistake, you did build a wall again. The very wall that Jesus brought down with His blood. You said,
"The Israel of God is Israel, who belongs to God. The Bride however belongs to Christ."
You are building two groups. With Christ there is only one group. Christ is God. Galatians 6:16 speaks of the Israel of God made up of Jewish people and Gentiles who believe in the Messiah.
Second, Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God, there is no other. 1 Peter 1:3, tells us, "has begotten us again to a living hope" no where does it say we are begotten of God. By giving us a new birth we are begotten to a new hope.
---Mark_V. on 11/15/11


Ephesians 2:15
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances, for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace,

Ephesians 4:24
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Colossians 3:10
And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
---kathr4453 on 11/15/11


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//Jesus broke down the wall between Jew and Gentile.
Therefore remember at one time you GENTILES in the flesh, ..---lee1538 on 11/14/11

"Ethnos/Nations" = latin word gentiles.
Nth House of Israel, was scattered, separated,alienated,divorced,
put away....until gathered as one. All prophets testify, all Apostles.
"at that time separated from Christ,alienated from the commonwealth of Israel"
"you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ"
John 11:52 not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
Micah 4:7 .... her that was cast far off a strong nation:the LORD shall reign over them ....
---Trav on 11/15/11


//Jesus broke down the wall between Jew and Gentile.
TRUE!

Therefore remember at one time you GENTILES in the flesh, called the uncircumcision by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands-remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility...Eph. 2:12f
---lee1538 on 11/14/11


Sorry Trav, but the verse I'm talking about is in Ephesians 2..
THAT wall is between Jew and Gentile.
---kathr4453 on 11/14/11


Jesus broke down the wall between Jew and Gentile ...---kathr4453 on 11/14/11

Well you may not ever come to know then.
This wall was between the two houses of Israel. The Nth House of ten and Judah/Benjamin.
Although you may never see....A lost Sheep might.
Hebrews 8:8
For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Ez 37:1919Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
---Trav on 11/14/11


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1 John 5:1
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

1 John 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not, but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
---kathr4453 on 11/14/11


Christan, I have studied begotten and am totally within scripture. Peter tells us ,

1 Peter 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.

It is you my dear silly christan who doesn't understand the meaning of begotten.

Revelation 1:5
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Are there more after Christ who will be resurrected from teh Dead? Those IN CHRIST will. Jeuss said I AM the resurrection and life!
---kathr4453 on 11/14/11


The radical negation of distinctions within the body of Christ is described as a new creation Gal. 6:15.

While this contrast with the original creation has already been alluded to in Galatians 3:28 as well as in Eph. 2:15-16, 4:24, and Col. 3:10, it is in 2 Corinthians 5 that Paul explicitly identifies those in Christ with this new creation. This new creation does not refer to an alteration in the physical nature of believers, nor an inward individual change at the level of what it means to be human. Gods new creation is the body of Christ, which must no longer be perceived from a human point of view

2 Cor. 5:16-18.
---kathr4453 on 11/14/11


MarkV, Yes, A common mistake people make is that they attach a wrong definition to a verse or passage in order to substantiate lawlessness. This is one perfect example, for in Galatians 3:26-29 speaks only of God's grace and love being shed upon all flesh, irregardless of whether one is a Jew or a Gentile, or a man or a woman, or a servant or free: this passage in no way removes the reality that a Jew is still a Jew, and a Gentile is still a Gentile, and a man is still a man, and a woman is still a woman and a servant is still a servant, and a free person is still a free person, to both God and to mankind. Through any person accepting Christ, God's heart is large enough to accept them all whom put on Jesus, no matter who the person is.
---Eloy on 11/14/11


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Paul wrote, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neigther male or female, for you all are one in Christ"
---Mark_V. on 11/14/11

That correct Markv, that is EXACTLY what I stated.

You can read I see, yet still can't comprehend!
---kathr4453 on 11/14/11


...I am a begotten son through Jesus Christ. A NEW creature, no longer Jew or Gentile.-kathr

agreed.
....how can you minister reconciliation?
---aka on 11/14/11

It is interesting that if a man has a wife....no other man is too adulterate. Nor are adulterous women allowed.
A law.....unless it concerns Israel (ruling with EL) or scripture about.

Reconcile explains itself as does redeem (buy back something previously owned).
By expelling thousands of scriptures about GOD's own is seen the careful weeding in gardens of the worlds doctrines.
32This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Ephesians 5:30
For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
---Trav on 11/14/11


\\FALSE/LIE: God cannot and does not hate.\\

Then how do you know that you are not one of those poor people whom God created just to hate, Trav? ---Cluny on 11/11/11

(From closed Blog)
Answer: I don't. More mercy than deserve already.
Logic: What difference to truth?
GOD will do with Trav, Cluny, Esau exactly what he wants to do.
We are his clay/pots, not yours.
Heb 12:17
For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.
Psalm 39:12
Hear my prayer, O LORD, and give ear unto my cry, hold not thy peace at my tears: for I am a stranger with thee, and a sojourner, as all my fathers were.
---Trav on 11/14/11


"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools..." Romans 1:22, "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth." 2 Timothy 3:7
---christan on 11/14/11

One can disagree Christan and do without the insults taken out of context.

GROW UP!

Jesus broke down the wall between Jew and Gentile making "ONE NEW MAN". When we Died with Christ we died to all that is of the FLESH in this world, including any destinction of being Jew or Gentile. Jesus did not break down any wall between Jew and Gentile only to make a NEW and Different JEW!

Those who do not understand "THIS MYSTERY" are ever learning and NEVER able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
---kathr4453 on 11/14/11


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//AND here meaning in addition to. Paul doesn,t say "WHO IS" the Israel of God. AND NEVER in any other scripture will you ever see Paul refer the The Churhc as "The Israel of God". He refers to the CHURCH as the CHURCH!// kathr

agreed.

...I am a begotten son through Jesus Christ. A NEW creature, no longer Jew or Gentile.-kathr

agreed.

if you are still a jew in christ or gentile in christ, how can you minister reconciliation?

2Co 5:17-18
---aka on 11/14/11


"The Israel of God is Israel, who belongs to God. The Bride however belongs to Christ."

Revelation 21:3 "And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God."

God is One (the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit) and so too are His people to Him through His Son Jesus Christ. The body of Christ is never a separate entity from the Father, they are One.

"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools..." Romans 1:22, "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth." 2 Timothy 3:7
---christan on 11/14/11


"I am a begotten son through Jesus Christ. A NEW creature, no longer Jew or Gentile."

Seriously?

A sinner is born of the Holy Spirit and not "begotten" of the Son. To say "begotten through Christ" makes you God like Christ who was "the only begotten Son of God." Being born of the Spirit indeed makes one a "new creation".

A sinner becomes a Christian only through regeneration, making them children of God through adoption and that's because they were redeemed by Christ. "To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons." Galatians 4:5

Check the meaning of "begotten" before using it frivolously.
---christan on 11/14/11


Eloy, good answers. Jesus was a Jew. What Kathr is doing is building the brick wall that stood between the Jew and the Gentile that Jesus brought down. There is an Israel after the flesh (1 Cor. 10:18) and an "Israel of God" ( Galatians 6:16) made up of Jewish people and Gentiles who believe in the Messiah. They are all circumcize from the heart. Paul called this "Mystery of Christ" which is now being revealed "by the Spirit". This "mystery" is more important then a mystery movie you might watch on tv. Paul wrote, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neigther male or female, for you all are one in Christ"
---Mark_V. on 11/14/11


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---Bill_willa6989 on 11/13/11

Bill, Romans 2 starting at verse 17 begins, Now you who call yourself JEWS....and concludes with Jews. NOWHERE do any of those verses even remotely suggest a Gentile becomes a Jew.

Now if you care to read Colossians 2 regarding TRUE CIRCUMCISION after Jesus death and resurrection, it includes MORE than just the heart.TODAY it means identificatin with Jesus death and resurrection. CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST!

And to not know this will mean the difference between heaven and hell

Eloy I know who Jesus Christ is and His lineage.

It was the PRETENTIOUS lingo you used.
---kathr4453 on 11/14/11


Do you all also claim to be the 144,000 spoken of in Revelation? You must be then right. So what tribe are you assigned to?

OR are THEY the Israel of God. OR are you claiming to be them as well?

So, you all are JW's right!
---kathr4453 on 11/14/11


"But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God." (Galatians 6:16)

"And', here, is like in "my Lord and my God" > the two are the same > Those who "walk according to this rule" are "the Israel of God". Paul says, "he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit" (in Romans 2:29). So, the Israel of God is us who are circumcised in the heart.
---Bill_willa6989 on 11/13/11


kathr4453, Jesus is recorded to have been born from Jewish parents, both from the lineage of David. If you remove Jesus' Jewish heritage, you remove the truth and serve some spector of imagination rather than the reality. When scripture speaks of God's grace- that is Jewish grace, being to the Jew first and then onto the Gentile- it is poured out upon all flesh, this shows it is not reserved only for the Jew but to whomsoever will, Jew or Gentile, Man or woman or child. It is not speaking of Christ not being a Jew nor a Gentile, for The Christ is proven to be of the Jews, from the line of David, from Judah, whom is the fourth born son of Jacob surnamed Israel, whom is of Isaac the son of promise, whom is of Abraham, the friend of God.
---Eloy on 11/13/11


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//LeeJ, you can agree with Eloy, who I'll bet copied and pasted his answer straight from a Messianic Jewish website.

Maybe that is why I am starting to agree with what Eloy posts.

Yes, we can all agree that the Israel of God is the body of Christ, namely His church.
---lee1538 on 11/13/11


LeeJ, you can agree with Eloy, who I'll bet copied and pasted his answer straight from a Messianic Jewish website.

I believe Paul states the New Creation is NO LONGER Jew or Gentile. It would be a contradiction of truth to then end stating the complete opposite.

The Israel of God is Israel, who belongs to God. The Bride however belongs to Christ.

If you already KNEW what you believe, why ask the question? Is it because you wanted to start another argument with anyone who disagrees with you?

I'll pass. Since your motives here are not really honest.

AKA is correct. Shun silly arguments!

I know what I believe and WHY I believe it.
---kathr4453 on 11/13/11


I follow after Christ Crucified and Risen. I am a begotten son through Jesus Christ. A NEW creature, no longer Jew or Gentile.
---kathr4453 on 11/13/11
amen
---michael_e on 11/13/11


The Israel of God is the born-again Christian, whom follows Christ the true Jew: and the Israel of God is not the ethnic Jew whom has zero Christ and zero God in their life, and whom follows after sin onto death, rather than obedience to Christ the Holy One of Israel.
---Eloy on 11/13/11


Jesus the true JEW?? Since we no longer know Christ after the flesh, but know Jesus as the Son of God, God incarnate, I follow after the risen Christ.

Was Jesus a true Jew before being made flesh? Or was Jesus God who was made flesh?

I follow after Christ Crucified and Risen. I am a begotten son through Jesus Christ. A NEW creature, no longer Jew or Gentile.
---kathr4453 on 11/13/11


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LeeJ, this is what i'm talking about,

The Israel of God

The Israel of God is a Bible Study Class. Our purpose is to teach the uncut word of God according to the Prophets (Old Testament) and Apostles (New Testament). We observe the Lord's Sabbath Day, the Lord's Feast Days (as outlined in Leviticus 23rd chapter), and the Lord's Dietary Law (as outlined in Leviticus 11th chapter). We teach and observe the Royal Law, which is the Ten Commandments.

We also believe in the resurrection and that Jesus is the King of Israel who will rule over the House of Jacob forever. We believe that Jesus is the God of all people and that his house "shall be a house of prayer for all people."
(Isaiah 56:7)
---kathr4453 on 11/13/11


Kathr4453 //So you see LeeJ, Paul had the same ISSUES in Colosse as he had in Galatia, THOSE coming in and preaching the Kingdom restored to Israel, Paul confirms...

Yes, I also believe that there were many in the early church that believed Christianity should be just another sect of Judaism. And in promoting that they mandated to the Gentile churches observance of Jewish laws, circumcision, sabbath, etc.

However, we even see that today with those who believe the New Covenant is but a rehash of the Old, the only changes being the location of the law (in our hearts) and that Christ did fulfill what they veiw as the Mosaic law.

As for the Israel of God, I concur with Eloy.
---lee1538 on 11/13/11


Paul explained that the Israel of God is the people of God, the household of faith, which are indeed the born-again Christians. For in the chapter Paul shows the vast difference between the Jews whom have no Holy Spirit and teach that old testament ceremonies are required to please God, and those whom have the Holy Spirit from Christ and truly serve God knowing full-well that dead ceremonies save no one. The Israel of God is the born-again Christian, whom follows Christ the true Jew: and the Israel of God is not the ethnic Jew whom has zero Christ and zero God in their life, and whom follows after sin onto death, rather than obedience to Christ the Holy One of Israel.
---Eloy on 11/13/11


Galatians 6:15For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

16And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God..

AND here meaning in addition to. Paul doesn,t say "WHO IS" the Israel of God. AND NEVER in any other scripture will you ever see Paul refer the The Churhc as "The Israel of God". He refers to the CHURCH as the CHURCH!

17From henceforth let no man trouble me: for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus.

Christan needs to be careful caling long standing Bible scholors WICKED. I also KNOW you need atleast one or two other scriptures to CONFIRN a truth.
---kathr4453 on 11/13/11


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Colossians 2:16-18
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17Which are a shadow of things to come,

BUT the body is of Christ.


HERE again Paul confirms this distinction between the Church. Christ's Body, and what he KNOWS is to come....He understands Zechariah 12-14. THAT is what is to come. AND they will be under Kingdom LAW!

Some here just don't understand the MYSTERIES of God. IF they did, they would see the destinction.

---kathr4453 on 11/13/11


So you see LeeJ, Paul had the same ISSUES in Colosse as he had in Galatia, THOSE coming in and preaching the Kingdom restored to Israel, Paul confirms...these are a shaddow of things TO COME, and that the CHURCH, The Body of Christ is not and never will be under these Kingdom Laws.

He ends up in Galatians also praying for them, not cursing them, BECAUSE he Knows these are God's, but he too acknowledges in the Beginning of Galatians that it's NOT the Gospel according to the Mystery of CHRIST IN YOU.

Paul also prays in Ephesians that WE know the hope of "OUR CALLING".

These were confused Jews, and many Gentiles alike today who are teaching KINGDOM NOW Theology. That's where it all started.
---kathr4453 on 11/13/11


isn't there a warning about useless debate?

the context of that little phrase means Jacob and the descendents, who are of God. however, the phrase is in a paragraph about circumcision. it says, whether a man is or isn't doesn't matter. it is the new creature in Christ that does.
---aka on 11/12/11


There's nothing more wicked than saying "The Church is never called the Israel of God." So much for all the babbling of teaching the Scripture, as Paul says, "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."

It should be clear now that everything in the OT was a fore-shadow of the NT. The lamb sacrificed was pointing to Jesus Christ. The nation Israel was pointing to the coming Church (aka the Body of Christ). After all it was God who chose Israel to be His people and not the other way round. See the similarity to His elect?

And if the physical Israel was indeed God's children, Paul wouldn't have said, "For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel."
---christan on 11/12/11


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To put it another way, the CHURCH is not the JACOB of God.

In ISAAC will thy seed be called, and the seed is Christ.

Galatains totally compares Isaaac to Ishmael...not Jacob to Esau.

Romans 11, when God turns ungodliness FROM JACOB at His second coming, God is talking about Israel, not teh Body of Christ.

The CHURCH needs NO turning from UNGODLINESS, as we are not ungodly, those who are In CHRIST.

This too was the issue in ACTS. Those who just couldn't grasp the MYSTERY that was hidden but now revealed.
---kathr4453 on 11/12/11


//Abraham and Isaac were not JEWS.

A minor technicality -

They were viewed as being Hebrews who later made up the Jewish nation.

Gen. 14:13 One who had escaped came and reported this to Abraham the Hebrew. Now Abraham was living near the great trees of Mamre the Amorite, a brother of Eshcol and Aner, all of whom were allied with Abraham.
---lee1538 on 11/12/11


The Church is never called the Israel of God.

Paul opens up Galatains about anothe Gospel..YET he says..NOT ANOTHER BUT some are bothering you.

Those who were bothering the Galatians were those who, like many today, don't understand the destinction between the Gospel according the the Mystery, The Church, and the Gospel of the Kingdom.

These were Jews who actually believed in Jesus HOWEVER they believed Gentiles were in submission to Jews, because the Kingdom restored to Israel will be that way.

Paul ends praying for both, but makes a clear distinction betweeen the two, SINCE Galatians is really about the two.
---kathr4453 on 11/12/11


Galatians never mention Jacob. Paul compares the Church to "ISAAC", ABOVE and FREE,

Abraham and Isaac were not JEWS.

Jacob, was named Israel, and out of Israel came Judah came the word JEW.

The Church is ONE NEW MAN In Christ, no longer Jew of Gentile. So it would be a total contradiction of Scripture to NOW make the Church spiritual Israel. Or the Israel OF GOD.

The Church is the Body of CHRIST

And the Israel OF GOD the FATHER is exactly that, The Beloved of the FATHER, just as Romans 11 state.

God told the Apostles in Actss 1:6-7 that the Kingdom restored to Israel WOULD NOT be restored at the is time.

We see many today, yes even today who have fallen for that OTHER GOSPEL!
---kathr4453 on 11/12/11


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There is a worldly Israel and a spiritual Israel. The former is Jews of the flesh, while the latter is the church - the household of God.

Eph. 2:2"built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone,...Eph.2:20
---lee1538 on 11/12/11


israel of God means israel (adopted name of jacob and its descendants) of God.

in context of the verse before, if one is in christ, neither circumcision (those of jewish ceremony) nor uncircumcision (those outside of jewish law) matter...what matters is the new creature. Peace to those who get it...even the people (israel) of God.
---aka on 11/12/11


The Church.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/11/11


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