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Can Christians Eat All Food

Does Romans 14 allow for Christians to eat any kind of food and to reject any day as holy including the Sabbath?

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 ---lee1538 on 11/17/11
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jerry6593 //Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

If Jesus had wanted us to have ANOTHER day (i.e. Sunday), would He not have spoken of it????????
---
If you were to read my post instead of reacting emotionally, you would see that I stated that 'another day' is the day we came to believe in Christ, not Sunday.

Yes, I can easily see that Adventist fight against Christ and the truth of Scripture as they had to create a new set of scripture by Ellen white in order to promote their Judaizing doctrines.

Ever read Galatians? It speaks of the children of Hagar from Mt. Sinai.
---lee1538 on 11/25/11


---JackB on 11/24/11
John 13:12 So after he had washed their feet, and had taken his garments, and was set down again, he said unto them, Know ye what I have done to you? JJohn 13:14 If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet, ye also ought to wash one another's feet. For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.

The ordinance of foot weashing was given BEFORE Jesus died, and in force AFTER Jesus died.

And again. Jesus did not put the 1st day in his new covenant, nor did he remove the 7th day.

Luke 23:54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on...And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments, and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
---francis on 11/25/11


---JackB on 11/24/11
The covenant is of force AFTER men are dead, but they must be written BEFORE the man is dead. Biblical example:

Luke 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup [is] the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

The lord's supper was given BEFORE Jesus died and of force AFTER he died.

If Sunday was to be the lord's day, it would have been stated BEFORE jesus died and of force AFTER he died.

Jesus said nothing about 1st day and nothing about removing sabbath from his new covenant
---francis on 11/25/11


Lee: You really should stop fighting against the truth of Scripture.

You have an amazing aptitude for trying to make the plainest scriptures mean the opposite of what they say. If you would use the KJV, you would find:

Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

If Jesus had wanted us to have ANOTHER day (i.e. Sunday), would He not have spoken of it????????
---jerry6593 on 11/25/11


he would have done it in the very same manner he gave the lord's supper and foot washing BEFORE HE DIED. Once he died he could no longer amend the testament.
---francis on 11/24/11


Heb 9
For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Jesus lived by the old covenant. We live by the new one he paid for with his blood.
---JackB on 11/24/11




Of course, I am just a stupid man. And I really dont know anything by myself.
But I have the law of god! So I look at it. Again, for it is all I have!
And I really do! So I ask myself, does anyone really keep the law?

All I hear from you is, since I try to keep it, so must you!
But, I know you dont, not think! But, know you dont!

For if there had been a law given which could have given life.
Then righteousness should have been by the law!

Do you think because you try to keep the law, you are righteous?
I remember telling God, I can explain it!
He said, they will not believe you.
Amen!
---TheSeg on 11/24/11


jerry6593//If God wanted us to keep another day, he certainly would have told us so when he was here.
---
He did just that in Hebrews 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on.

And what is that "another day"? It is the day we who have believed have entered into His rest as depicted by the Sabbath.

Heb 4:3 For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said, As I swore in my wrath, They shall not enter my rest, although his works were finished from the foundation of the world. (note have believed is past tense)

You really should stop fighting against the truth of Scripture.
---lee1538 on 11/24/11


Hebrews 9:16 For where a testament [is], there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

Hebrews 9:17 For a testament [is] of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Just as God gave us the Lord's supper when he was here so too he would have given another day. he would have done it in the very same manner he gave the lord's supper and foot washing BEFORE HE DIED. Once he died he could no longer amend the testament.
---francis on 11/24/11


JackB: "I mean if God wants us to still do it he certainly would have told us so when he was here."

He did. He wrote it with His own finger in stone. He declared Himself "Lord" of the Sabbath day. He customarily kept the Sabbath day as an example to us. He was concerned about His people keeping the Sabbath in the future distruction of Jerusalem.

If God wanted us to keep another day, he certainly would have told us so when he was here.
---jerry6593 on 11/24/11


If Christ already fulfilled the law perfectly for each and every one of us, why do we struggle to attain our own righteousness by following the law perfectly as though He failed at his task?-JackB on 11/23/11

Paul answered this question many times:
Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid.

Galatians 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
---francis on 11/24/11




JackB on 11/23/11
1 John 3:4 sin is the transgression of the law.

This Law which defines sin is the ten commandments:

Romans 7:7 I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except THE LAW HAD SAID, Thou shalt not covet.

Now James uses two different commandments from the same law:
James 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

It really does not matter which of the TEN ( NOT NINE) commandments you break, it is equaly SIN

So to trangress the sabbath, is a sin just as murder or worshiping false gods.

SAME LAW / same LAW GIVER that says one says all Ten
---francis on 11/24/11


Even with everything each of us believes?

These words are written:
There is none righteous, no, not one:
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable, there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Their throat is an open sepulchre, with their tongues they have used deceit, the poison of asps is under their lips:
Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
Their feet are swift to shed blood:
Destruction and misery are in their ways:
And the way of peace have they not known:
There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Yet says he: For behold, the kingdom of God is within you!
---TheSeg on 11/23/11


So basically if YOU, Francis, look at something that belongs to another person and wish YOU had it instead you are just as guilty as a Sabbath breaker? Yeah thats what I thought.

Seems like this would be a good place for that plank and beam parable.

Do you honestly think honoring the Sabbath makes all your other lil sins go away?

I can see it now. God: "I know you worshipped me and loved me with all your heart and loved others as yourself but.......(sigh) Im sorry. I didnt like the day you picked to worship me. Away with you!"
---JackB on 11/23/11


do you have any NEW covenant/testament scripture that directs us to honor the Sabbath?
---JackB on 11/23/11
YES
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

James could have used any of the ten commandments and he would be 100% correct.
Example James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not covet , said also, do not steal. Now if thou do not covet, yet if thou steal, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
---francis on 11/23/11


Francis while it is evident that some laws from the old covenant have been transferred into the new covenant, do you have any NEW covenant/testament scripture that directs us to honor the Sabbath?

I mean if God wants us to still do it he certainly would have told us so when he was here.
---JackB on 11/23/11


Col 2:14
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us,... ---JackB on 11/23/11

This verse referrs to the earthly/ worldy sanctuary and it handwriting of ordnances

Hebrews 9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both GIFTS AND SACRIFICES, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience, Which stood only in MEAT OFFERINGS AND DRINK OFFERINGS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

It stood against the faithful in that death and condemnation was a present theme. Christ took away that death. REFERENCE LEVITICUS 23
---francis on 11/23/11


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Some of you are asking them questions, about them keeping the law?
Is it that you believe they are keeping it?
Or are you trying to prove them wrong?

If a man says I love God and love not his brother.
Why would a son of God hold up the law to his brother?
And not hold up The Son Of God to his brother?

Which is greater the gold, or the temple that sanctified the gold?
I see the altar! But you keep showing me the gift upon it. (From God)
Believe me, I see him!

I say leave there the gift before the altar. Go to your brother and offer him the gift of life.
That he may do the same.
God Peace
---TheSeg on 11/23/11


Jesus Christ never did anything contrary to the written law otherwise he was not a lamb without blemish. WHY did the lamb of God have to be spotless/sinless? It was for OUR benefit, not his own. We receive his "spotlessness" although we sin daily and he receives our "spots" though he was sinless.

If Christ already fulfilled the law perfectly for each and every one of us, why do we struggle to attain our own righteousness by following the law perfectly as though He failed at his task?

What you have to ask yourself is are you following the law of Christ out of love or to attain your own righteousness?
This is why the Jews stumble over Christ. Too much pride to admit they have failed.
---JackB on 11/23/11


JackB: Is there any evidence that the Lord Jesus Christ, Apostle Peter or Paul ate what God commanded not to eat? "Judge not in meat" to me means do not condemn to hell he/she that eats unclean food, God can save him/her.
---Adetunji on 11/23/11


So Im curious. What do you think of this passages? (Theres another that Im looking for right now. It also shows that the laws for Jews that separated us from Gods "people" were taken away)

Col 2:14
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross,

And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
---JackB on 11/23/11


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francis:

You practice separation of women? Do you make your wife (and/or teenage daughters, etc.) leave the house during her time of the month?
---StrongAxe on 11/22/11


HAPPY THANKGIVING EVERYONE

YES you may eat the turkey
NO you cannot eat the swine Leviticus 11:7 the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud, he is unclean to you.

Remember every thing we do is worship. When we choose to eat as God commands we are worshiping God by making him LORD of our bodies
1 Corinthians 10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
---francis on 11/22/11


Do you cut your hair and beard according to how God declared in scripture? (if you are a man)
---JackB on 11/22/11

If you are referring to this passage:
Leviticus 21:5 They shall not make baldness upon their head, neither shall they shave off the corner of their beard, nor make any cuttings in their flesh.

Yes I follow this law. This is one of the biblical laws not requiring a blood sacrifice. Some laws do require a blood sacrifice, while some are a blood sacrifice themself.

Example: Law of seperation of a woman does require blood sacrifice Leviticus 15:29-30, while Circumcision is a blood sacrifice Exodus 4:25-26.
We accept the blood sarifice made by Jesus in place of all blood sacrifices.
---francis on 11/22/11


Francis, do you wear a garment to cover your head? (if you are a woman)

Do you cut your hair and beard according to how God declared in scripture? (if you are a man)
---JackB on 11/22/11


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1 Timothy 4:4 every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by THE WORD OF GOD and prayer.

2 Timothy 3:15 from a child thou hast known THE HOLY SCRIPTURES,...

In his letters to Timothy, the phrases "word of God" and "Holy Scriptures" refer exclusively to the writings of the OT. So when Paul says that it is sanctified by the word of God, he is referring to what God sanctified / set aside for food in the OT books. Thus, the passage cannot be saying saying to eat what is unclean, since " word of God" as Timothy understood never sanctifed anything unclean
---francis on 11/22/11


Jack notice the phrase sanctifed by the word? That means that the Bible has apporved of eating it.

In Texas we used to have a saying that the best present to give your enmies is oysters. Either he will love them and be fine. Or they will give him Cholera and you will not have to deal with him for many days.
---Samuel on 11/22/11


truth. For every creature of God is good, and NOTHING to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer
---JackB on 11/22/11
Can you show where God ever sanctified anthing whcih he calls unclean to eat?

Isaiah 66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one [tree] in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

People see the prayer part, forget THE SANCTIFIED BY THE WORD OF GOD part.
The word of God NEVER sanctifies anything unclean to be used as food.
---francis on 11/22/11


You tell me.
We are in the jungle or somewhere walking for a week or weeks whatever
Tired, weak, hungry! We come across some people shaking bones at some idol.
They offer us some pig, roasted on a stick over a fire. Clearly being offer to some idol.
You see me instantly dig in!

As you can see, right here is where you will decide.
However, I am sure some of you will die, as I am sure some will live.
Mind you, I am no longer talking about the pig.
God bless you and have a wonderful holiday.
---TheSeg on 11/22/11


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1 Tim 4

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils, Speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their conscience seared with a hot iron, Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and NOTHING to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer

This is why we say a prayer to bless our food before we eat it.

Next...
---JackB on 11/22/11


So you really believe being hungry can defile a man.
---TheSeg on 11/22/11

Do not do that. I never said being hungry can defile

Romans14 and 1 corithians 10 same doctrine. Not about clean and uncelan in itself, but clean or unclean based on sacrifice to idols
---francis on 11/22/11


Selling meats offered to idols was a comon occurance in that time. Romans 14 speaks to that, just as 1 Corinthians 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol [is] nothing in the world, and that [there is] none other God but one.

Also deals with the same issues of CONSCIENCE

1 Corinthians 8:7 Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol, and their conscience being weak is defiled.

So please stop taking one or verse out of context to say that God has changes his laws and JUDGMENTS Psalms 119:75 I know, O LORD, that thy judgments are right,
---francis on 11/22/11


I am 100% sure, francis on 11/21/11?
This should be clear enough, even for you!
Are you for real?

Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
This clear enough? francis, who is weak? See if you can reason why is he weak?

Luk_17:6 And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea, and it should obey you.

So you really believe being hungry can defile a man.
No! its that which come out of the mouth.
For out of the mouth the heart speaks!
How great is that darkness!
---TheSeg on 11/22/11


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Romans 14 are pretty simple. Concering the Law of Love,
"I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself, but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean" (v. 14).
We are told nothing is unclean of itself. Plain statement. But to him who is convinced anything is unclean, it is unclean to him. But that doesn't make anything unclean of itself from God's point of view, only to him from his point of view. If your conscience tells you it is bad, do not do it.
"Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love"
We should not condemn others for what they feel is unclean, that is not showing love to our brother.
---Mark_V. on 11/22/11


And Romans 14?

Taken out of context as well?
---JackB on 11/22/11


Kashuroth also include things that are IN the Bible.
---Cluny on 11/21/11
You said "ALSO INCLUDE" Let me give you time to think about that.

---lee1538 on 11/21/11
The NT phrases "it is written" and "according to the scriptures" refer ONLY to the OT. think anout that

---JackB on 11/21/11
Read it again. If you see ONE word about clean and unclean I MUST change my mind. I am 100% sure the passage is about: Matthew 15:20 EATING with UNWASHEN HANDS defileth not a man

How about Genesis, where God initially gave man the right to eat vegetables, but after the flood, he also let man eat animals?
---StrongAxe on 11/21/11
Did God ever change his mind about people eating vegetables?
---francis on 11/21/11


//Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man, but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.//

This verse and context probably has more to do with a distinction in Judaism about whether hands needed to be washed than with eating forbidden foods. And even IF they did not wash their hands, did that make someone MORALLY unclean verses ceremonially unclean. It was not required in the law for someone to wash their hands before eating. The Pharisees seemed to have taught that eating with unwashed hands made one MORALLY unclean. Neither was true.

Looking at the culture, language, and literature of the times, this context does not appear to condone eating forbidden foods described in the law.
---Rod4Him on 11/22/11


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I am Christianed and I don't eat dirty sneakers, and we thank Jesus for every day of every week of every year, which all are made by him for us, and therefore all days are holy.
---Eloy on 11/22/11


Francis, Lee is correct. you gave the Nature, character and attributes of God and those never change because He never changes. But His works through history change with every Covenant He made. His whole plan does not change either. What He planned is complete already before Him. Nothing will happen that is not already seen by Him. God knew Israel was going to reject Christ, and had already included the Gentiles at a specific time to also be included in the Atonement. To say He didn't know is to create a god in your mind who lives in time and is not all knowing. And a god who learns through time is not our Sovereign Lord.
---Mark_V. on 11/22/11


\\As well intended as it may be, kashuroth law includes things not found in the bible.\\

The Kashuroth also include things that are IN the Bible.

Try again.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/21/11


Instead of asking mere humans for their thoughts, why don't you ask God. Scripture says He gives us the Holy Spirit to be a Counselor. He also says that He gives us wisdom.

What did the people in the early Church do to understand the Holy Scripture? I believe they prayed and sought God's divine guidance in understanding his Word.
---Trish on 11/21/11


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Francis //In this passage, it is THE DOCTRINES which do not change.

In case you do not know this, all Christian doctrine is derived from the New Testament, not the Old. Otherwise you would still be practicing circumcision, eating non-Levitical foods, as well as observing the olde Jewish Sabbath.
---lee1538 on 11/21/11


Matt15:11
Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man, but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.


Romans 14:14,15
I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
---JackB on 11/21/11


---Cluny on 11/21/11
LOL Law kashuroth law includes such thing as not eating milk with meat, and not setting the table with milk and meat at the same time. The bible states that we should not cook an animal in it's mothers milk. As well intended as it may be, kashuroth law includes things not found in the bible.
---francis on 11/21/11


francis:

You said: to say that God changed his laws, His commands or his teachings, is to make God out to be a liar

How about Genesis, where God initially gave man the right to eat vegetables, but after the flood, he also let man eat animals? That was a change, and not a lie.

In the Old Testament, the Jews were permitted to divorce, but Jesus said that was not right. That was a change. (If God had not wanted people to ever divorce in the first place, it was pretty strange that he laid out elaborate rules for just how they were supposed to do it.)
---StrongAxe on 11/21/11


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I believe that GOD gave rules of what is healthy to eat and do. Like wash your hands before you eat. I understand thar GOD designed us and knows what is best for us.

So when he says it is bad to eat with unwashed hands and that pork. cats, dogs and animals lying dead on the road are bad to eat. No matter when we choose to eat unhealthy food does not make a difference.
---Samuel on 11/21/11


\\There is no such thing as kashuroth in the Bible\\

What do you think the distinction between "clean" and "unclean" food in the OT is, francis? These are KASHUROTH!

\\And what you are talking about is a strange and divers doctrine, which show God to be
variable, unstable, and a liar.\\

No, francis. Just you.

\\Clearly we have differents God\\

It's taking you THIS long to notice it?

I worship the God of the Bible, and YOU worship the god of "touch not, taste not, handle not."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/21/11


I kind of like the wording of Romans_14:3!

Now, can I eat anything I want? Yes, I know I can!
But, can I do it in front of you? I'm sure, I can't!
Now, can you do it in front of me? You all already do!
God Bless you!

I know you try to uphold the law, and rightly so! For Christ even said Mat_5:18!
Now if the fact that Christ before that said Mat_5:17, only adds to your convictions.
Well maybe that's because you havent been found Guilty yet.
Just keep hiking up that mountain.
I'll just move it, with Christ!

Mat_10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
God Peace
---TheSeg on 11/21/11


francis, you don't actually think the kashuroth of the OT were obligatory on Gentiles, do you?
---Cluny on 11/21/11
There is no such thing as kashuroth in the Bible

What I believe is this:
James 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
Malachi 3:6I am the LORD, I change not,
James 1:17 the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines

And what you are talking about is a strange and divers doctrine, which show God to be
variable, unstable, and a liar.

Clearly we have differents God
---francis on 11/21/11


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francis, y ou don't actually think the kashuroth of the OT were obligatory on Gentiles, do you?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/21/11


Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines

In this passage, it is THE DOCTRINES which do not change. Thus those in christ should not be carried about ( FOOLED, TAKEN IN) by STRANGE and divers doctrines. Like eating what God said not to eat. That would be divers / different from what God had already established
---francis on 11/21/11


//to say that God changed his laws, His commands or his teachings, is to make God out to be a liar.

Heb 7:12 For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well.

Under your criteria God IS A LIAR!

You should try thinking about these issues before you demonstrate how dumb one can be.
---lee1538 on 11/21/11


francis //Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines
---
The verse really reflects on the nature or attributes of God, not on the tenets of any covenant. For instance, God commanded physical circumcision in the Old Covenant, but in the New, it was not required. Did God change? Not in His attributes but only in the tenets of the covenant He made with Israel.

I wish you could understand that as I really hate to see anyone be so determined to be that stupid (or willfully ignorant as Kathy keeps slamming others that disagree with her).
---lee1538 on 11/20/11


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If any teaching comes from Jehovah, any instructons, any laws, then He will not change them.

to say that God changed his laws, His commands or his teachings, is to make God out to be a liar.

This is what God says about himself:

Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not,
James 1:17 the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning
Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie, neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Romans 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar,
---francis on 11/20/11


Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not, therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
James 1:17 the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning

How then has someone convinced you that God has changed his mind to accept what He calls an abomination?

How can anyone convince you that the death of christ now allows believers in God/ Christ to perform what God considers an abomination?

Christianity is for those who seek, and have wisdom.

Proverbs 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing, therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines
---francis on 11/20/11


---micha9344 on 11/19/11
The word of God did not come to us by the inspiration of men, but by the holy spirit.

2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake by the Holy Ghost.

THE DOCTRINES OF GOD must be the same yesterday today and forever.
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines.

THUS: you MUST find the same doctrine in ALL books of the bible.
Acts 17:11 they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures(OT) daily, whether those things were so.
---francis on 11/19/11


Romans 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

It is not unclean of itself. It is only unclean if GOD declares it unclean. Therefore the meats sold in the market, which may have been ofered to idols is not unclean of itself, because an idol is nothing in the world.

1 Corinthians 10:28 But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:

Paul is not teaching people to eat contrary to the word of God.
---francis on 11/19/11


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Read this passage prayfully. It is not an event which took place under the Old ovenant or in OT times.
It is an event yet to come under NT times.

Isaiah 66:15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
Isaiah 66:16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
Isaiah 66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

Meaning even in NT times, before the Lord comes we are not to eat swine
---francis on 11/19/11


1 Timothy 4:4 For every creature of God [is] good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1 Timothy 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

At first glance this passage seems to suggest that every animal is good to eat.
But careful reading will show that only that which is SANCTIFIED BY THE WORD OF GOD is good to eat.

You may search the entire bible, you will never find swine SANCTIFIED BY THE WORX OF GOD to be used for food.

Here are some words which God uses to describe these:

Leviticus 11:7 unclean
Leviticus 11:13 abomination
Leviticus 18:22 ABOMINATION

Under what circumstances does God allow His people to perform ABOMINATIONS?
---francis on 11/19/11


Read this passage prayfully. It is not an event which took place under the Old ovenant or in OT times.
It is an event yet to come under NT times.

Isaiah 66:15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
Isaiah 66:16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
Isaiah 66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

Meaning even in NT times, before the Lord comes we are not to eat swine
---francis on 11/19/11


Let's ask Peter (You know, the guy who had the unclean critters in a sheet vision.) what kind of diet he had many years after the cross & resurrection.

Act 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord, for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.


And let's ask Paul about his church attendance habits many years after the cross & resurrection.

Act 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures


Now, Lee could be right, but that would make Peter and Paul liars, or at least hypocrites.
---jerry6593 on 11/19/11


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"Romans it is not clean verses unclean, but CLEAN MEAT verses HERBS..."-francis on 11/18/11
--Really?
Romans 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that [there is] nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him [it is] unclean.
--Adam only had herbs(Gen1:29), Noah had all things(Gen9:3), Israel was limited (Lev 11:2).
--Francis' interpretation of these verses is wrong as well as his application of Heb 13:8, which Paul wrote.
--Maybe someone is not considering themselves (Mat 7:3, Gal 6:1) concerning 2Pet 3:16.
May God give us all understanding and free us from the bonds of indoctrination (John 8:32).
---micha9344 on 11/19/11


Francis -
2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable TWIST, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
---
The overwhelming view is that this is one of the problem with Adventism (as well as some others), that they misinterpret the writings of the Spirit thru Paul. And in doing so, they ignore (or must re-interpret)the plain meaning other scripture.

I think the problem arose when Adventism chose not to let scripture define their belief system but instead use scripture to promote their errant views.
---lee1538 on 11/19/11


2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they d also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Romans 14 like 1 corinthians 10 IS NOT about clean and unclean, It is about meat sold in the market that MAY or MAY NOT be offered to idols.

Romans it is not clean verses unclean, but CLEAN MEAT verses HERBS
People ate herbs not chancing that what was sold in the market may have been offered to idols

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today, and for ever. Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines.
Does eating unclean meats saound like Jesus is the SAME today?
---francis on 11/18/11


Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and for ever. Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines.

When someone tells you to eat pork or anything which God calls unclean, does that sound like Jesus is the same yesterday today and forever, or does it sound to you like like a strange and divers doctrine from what the Bible teaches? Does it not sound as if they are twisting Paul's words to their own destruction?

2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable TWIST, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
---francis on 11/19/11


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//"'The children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant." Exd 31:16

That is probably why the Messianic Jews - Jews that have become Christians, still observe the Sabbath.

However, we can all agree that it is a matter of individual conviction and that we are not to judge others on what they eat or what day they wish to set aside for communal worship & rest. (14:4)

Why should one even care, however, I would rather identify with Christ and the Lord's day than with those that kept the Sabbath and were the chief enemies of our Lord.
---lee1538 on 11/18/11


In Leviticus 11 we have a listiing of foods God forbidden to be eaten by the people of Israel.

Were these forbidden foods for the health benefits or were they like the Sabbath & the Festivals designed to keep the people of Israel separate from other peoples?

And then we have Jesus in Mt. 15 & Mk. 7 telling us that foods do not defile us.
---lee1538 on 11/18/11


I eat Pork!!! LOL

And if it were up to me, I'd make TWO to THREE days the Sabbath. I love to sit at Jesus's feet and Worship Him and read His word.

Yes, Christians can eat any kind of food. We are sanctified through the Blood of Our Lord Jesus Christ.
---anon on 11/18/11


"Does Romans 14 allow for Christians to eat any kind of food and to reject any day as holy..?" Allow, yes.
However "'The children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant." Exd 31:16
For the LORD Himself has commanded His chosen to "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy." Exd 20:8
As far as food is concerned, Man is free to consume any food that the Father "created to be received." 1Ti 4:3 Which would not include scavengers. Lev, chapter 11>Deu. chapter 14
As to whether or not any of this is applicable to "Christians"."Let each [individual] be fully convinced in his own mind." Rom 14:23
---joseph on 11/17/11


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Romans 14:2,5 One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables.... One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.

Yes, Mike the Jewish Sabbath is and always has been Saturday, however, no one has ever find any support in Scripture that commands Christians to observe it. And that is the problem, is it not with those who have made an idol of the Old Covenant 10 commandments?
---lee1538 on 11/18/11


Sure! We are free to eat whatever we want and to commit whatever sin we want.....Of course, there are consequences.
---jerry6593 on 11/18/11


\\God gave us the animals to eat.\\

According to Genesis 2, Adam, Eve, and their descendants were allowed to eat only plants.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/18/11


The sabbath was created for man. Mark 2:27. So sabbath can be for any day of the week. Sunday is not a good day for me because I do media at church for 8 hours or more and it is not restful.
---Scott1 on 11/18/11


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sabbath is ALWAYS HOLY & sabbath is Saturday not sunday
---mike on 11/17/11


Not only may Christians eat any food they choose, but most nonchristians as well may eat any food they choose.
---John.usa on 11/17/11


God gave us the animals to eat. the only thing I suggest is how it is properly drained.Why eat blood mixed in?yuck! but no God doesn't give us restrictions on which animals to eat.
---candice on 11/17/11


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