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Belief In Evolution Offends God

Does the belief in Evolution by Christians offend God?

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 ---jerry6593 on 11/18/11
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I agree Mark V, Warwick's argument is flawed completely.

No where in scripture does it say the 6 creative days were each 24 hours long. Warwick assumes they were based on his understanding of Exodus 20:8-11 which doesn't discuss the length of a human day or God's.

Warwick is blinkered in his arrogance, focusing entirely on his understanding of Exodus 20:8-11 without considering Moses words at Psalms 90:4 which specifically states regarding creation that a day with God is as a 1000 years.

Warwick's teaching that God's 7th 'day of rest' was 24 hours long is kindergarten theology, shallow and wthout substance. It is also Pharisaical and dangerous as it is contrary to Christ's and Paul's teachings- Mt.23:13, Heb.4:10.
---David8318 on 11/24/11


Warwick, I believe you are tackling the topic wrong. Just because someone's interpretation is different has nothing whatsoever to do with faith. New believers have saving faith from the beginning yet are just beginning to learn. If they have a passion to learn the Bible and its meanings, it takes work. Some passages are explicitly stated, others are implicitly stated. It is our duty as believers to find the true meaning of what God wanted to convey to us. What you might conclude might be a whole lot different then someone else. What we should first conclude before we start is to have faith that the Word of God is Truth. Once that's done, then a believer by faith can begin to look for the true meaning God wants to convey to us in each passage.
---Mark_V. on 11/24/11


Warwick, I did quote 2 Peter 3:8 correctly, read my previous post again.

I know Peter is not discussing creation, but neither does Numbers chapter 7 and all the other verses you quote which mention 'day' outside the Genesis account to attempt to prove God's 24 hour time scale.

Peter may have had Moses words in mind at Psalms 90:4 where Moses was discussing creation, and here at Psalms 90:4 Moses does compare a day with God to be as a thousand years.

None of Peter's readers including us have experienced livng 1000yrs. A 'day' with God is beyond our understanding.

You say 'God does not live in days of any length and does not tire out'. Then why do you insist God's 'day' is 24hours and He needed 24 hours rest!?
---David8318 on 11/24/11


Warwick, The "we" and "our" were He and fellow Christians!
They quoted from or alluded to Genesis because the scrolls were right there in the synagogue, where Jesus got up and read from!
Still does not address the question of where Moses got his information
---1st_cliff on 11/23/11


Mark, Lee (and others) reject any Scripture which contradicts long-ages/evolutionary views. Their views are not scriptural, or an alternative interpretation of Scripture, but come from antiBiblical human theories. This demonstrates faith?

That God created in 6 24hr days is not an interpretation but what Scripture says. Genesis 1, where God accompanies 'day' with a number, defines 24hr day. 'day' is used with a number 410 times outside Genesis 1, and it always means an ordinary day."

As you may have seen Professor Barr, Hebrew expert (a non believer) says the writer(s) of Genesis 1 meant us to take the days as being 24hr days. If a non-believer expert says 6 24hr days why do socalled Christians here reject this?
---Warwick on 11/23/11




David, Exodus 20:8-11 shows God who does not tire created in 6-days and rested the 7th, to set a pattern for the 7-24hr day week.

God is not man, but eternal spirit. He therefore by definition does not live in days of any length.

Again you misquote 2 Peter 3:8, "..With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day."

Peter could only compare a 'day' and a 'thousand years' is his readers already knew what a 'day' and a 'thousand years' meant. This does not say a 'day' for God is any length, and has nothing to do with creation day-length but concerns His slowness in returning as some said.
---Warwick on 11/23/11


Warwick, if you agree God is not man (only when you argue for the trinity doctrine) and does not tire out, why do you insist God's creative days must be 24 hours, and needed 24 hours rest!?

Six day's with God are not the same length in time as six day's with man.

'God's ways are not mans'- Is.55:8.

God is spoken of as having hands, ears, a nose etc... but I don't believe he literally has these characteristics. Neither do I believe God's 'day' is the same as ours.

Human 'day' is 24 hours.

God's 'day' is like, or is as 'a thousand years'- Moses at Psalms 90:4, Peter at 2 Peter 3:8.

God's count of time is vastly different to man. Israel was told at Ex.20 to structure their week on God's 'creative' week.
---David8318 on 11/23/11


//Jesus told YOU exactly how long He took to create, and how long a week is in Exo 20:11. But you don't like His answer, so you make up your own offensive counterfeit religion.
---jerry6593

Your viewpoint does indeed limit God to the creation activity only of the earth. There is no reason not to believe God created many things in the universe long before He created the earth and man on it. The stars being among that ageless creation.

Your god is a little and powerless god. You really need to study the Bible and follow it instead of olde Ellen White who as half crazy.
---lee1538 on 11/23/11


Lee1538- I agree there is no reason to believe God had to wait 24 hours between each event.

I also believe that each six creative day's and God's 'seventh day of rest' are all equal in length. When God's seventh day ends, it will be the same length as the previous six.

God will declare the end of His 7th day of rest when it arrives in the same way He declared the end of each of the previous 6 'days'.

I believe God's 7th 'day of rest' began at the end of the 'sixth', and will conclude when the 'Lord of the Sabbath'- Jesus Christ has brought everything on earth back into harmony with God at the end of his 1000year reign. Thus the period of the 7th day is from Genesis 2:1 through to the end of Christ's 1000yr reign.
---David8318 on 11/23/11


David, God is not man and does not tire, so why did He create over 6 days and rest the 7th?

"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter,........"

Why were they to structure their week this way David?

"For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day.
Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy."

God created in 6 days and rested the 7th, to set a pattern for the Israelites week.

If all else fails read Scripture!
---Warwick on 11/23/11




Lee, God created time for man as Genesis 1 and Exodus 20:8-11 show. He is not bound by it, we are.

Professor James Barr (then regious professor of Hebrew at Oxford University) said "...so far as I know, the is no professor of Hebrew or Old Testament at any world-class university who does not believe that the writer(s) of Genesis 1-11 intended to convey to their readers the ideas that

a) creation took place in a series of six days which were the same as the days of 24hrs we now experience."

Barr (even more learned than you Lee) is a hostile witness as he does not believe the Bible is revealed truth, but says the days were intended to be taken as 24 hours.
---Warwick on 11/23/11


David318 //Scriptures fundamentalist trinitarians use to 'support' their erroneous view that God is somehow bound by mans count of time speak only of mans understanding of time not God's- eg. Numbers chapter 7.

God spoke His creation into existence, and there is no reason to believe that He had to wait 24 hours between each event.

The literalists do not take into account what the Scripture says or does not say. For one thing, the Gentile creation account nowhere states that the first 3 days were of 24 hour duration.
---lee1538 on 11/23/11


Fundamentalist trinitarians, here represented by Warwick would have everyone believe Almighty God, who is eternal in both directions, who possesses an abundance of dynamic energy needed a 24 hour rest break!

Insisting God's day must be 24 hours and thus the 7th day ended 24 hours after the sixth is Pharisaical because fundamentalist trinitarians fail to discern the purpose of God's seventh 'day of rest'.

Paul told Christians to 'enter God's rest' with Him- Heb.4:9,10. Teaching God's 'day of rest' has already ended, fundamentalists are in the same league as the Pharisee's of Jesus' day who 'shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to'- Mt.23:13 (NIV).
---David8318 on 11/23/11


Proof that 'a day' or 'one day' with God is not a 24 hour period is supported by scripture.

Moses the writer of the creation account wrote regarding creation- 'For a thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by...'- Ps.90:4 (NIV).

Peter also wrote regarding God's count of time- 'a thousand years as one day'- 2 Peter 3:8 (KJV).

Scriptures fundamentalist trinitarians use to 'support' their erroneous view that God is somehow bound by mans count of time speak only of mans understanding of time not God's- eg. Numbers chapter 7.

Exodus 20:8-11 doesn't discuss God's or mans count of time- only how man should structure their working week.

'God's way is not mans'- Is.55:8.
---David8318 on 11/23/11


Warwick 2: When I first saw your answers two years ago, I was proud of how you answered. You got to detail. Since then your answers have changed. Here you say to Lee, that his lack of faith is why he doesn't agree with you. It's never a lack of faith on the Word of God, it is his interpretations that are different then yours. The whole Word of God is Truth, we believe it by faith, not because we understand it all, but because it comes from God. Milton Terry, believed the flood was local. That doesn't mean he lacked faith. Only that his interpretation was different, He believed it was from what the writer saw, phenomenologically. I was hoping the answers would open a dialogue for more truth but if someone disagrees now, they lack faith.
---Mark_V. on 11/23/11


Cliff, if Genesis wasn't to be treated as truth and historical reality do you think Jesus and the apostles would have quoted from or alluded to the first 11 chapters alone, 107 times and always as truth and historical reality?

Do you imagine Jesus knew the truth was different or uncertain, and didn't make one comment about this?

Jesus said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you do not receive our testimony. If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things?" John 3:11,12.

How indeed Cliff?

BTW who is "we" and "our" in the above Scripture?
---Warwick on 11/23/11


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Lee, once again you testify to your lack of faith in God and His word. He says He created light by which He lit the earth before He created the sun. But you contradict Him saying He is not able to do this!

I am convinced these events of Genesis are the foundation of the gospel. Just as the NT says. From research I know that Jesus and the apostles disagree with you. Your argument is with them, not me.

As regards distant starlight read physicist Dr John Hartnetts's book Starlight, Time and the New Physics. And then let us discuss this.

Ye of little faith indeed.
---Warwick on 11/23/11


Recognising his failed, pathetic argument, Warwick is forced to put words in my mouth.

Warwick does not know seven follows six, and can't understand the difference between ordinal and cardinal numbers.

Yes a day for the Israelites and any huuman is a 24hour period.

But that's not being discussed at Exodus 20:8-11. Neither is a length of God's 'day'. 'Man's ways are not God's, and God's ways are not man's'- Isaiah 55:8,9.

Warwick's use of Numbers 7 highlights his inability to see God in any way other than a man, bound by a 24 hour period. Numbers 7 applies to man, not God!

'One day' with man- 24hours. 'One day' with God- 'is like a 1000 years'- Psalms 90:4, 1 Pe.3:8.
---David8318 on 11/23/11


Lee: "Furthermore light from the stars (recorded on 4th period of creation [that's DAY, Lee]) may have taken years to reach the earth, so we can easily conclude that the stars were something God may have created long before he created the earth."

Do you also believe that Adam was created long before the sixth day because he was fully grown? Why can't starlight, like a man, be created with the "appearance" of age?

Jesus told YOU exactly how long He took to create, and how long a week is in Exo 20:11. But you don't like His answer, so you make up your own offensive counterfeit religion.
---jerry6593 on 11/23/11


Warwick - we can agree the days after creation were normal 24 hour days, howbeit, it is too easy to see it is an assumption that the first 3 days were normal 24 hour days as the sun was not created until the 3rd day.

Furthermore light from the stars (recorded on 4th period of creation) may have taken years to reach the earth, so we can easily conclude that the stars were something God may have created long before he created the earth. God did not create the stars on the 4th period.

The Genesis record of creation is far too brief to conclude decisively what the periods of creation were. Any belief you have on this issue is an assumption.

In any case, I do not see this issue as essential for us in our Christain faith and walk.
---lee1538 on 11/23/11


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Warwick, By saying when you add 1st,2nd or 3rd to day it means a 24 hr. day!
This is "rule-of-thumb" not fact!
You (or anyone) cannot say for sure the original language in which this was written, you are surmising Hebrew, Languages were confused at Babel!
So Moses set up this "rule-of-thumb"? He was not there on day 1,2or 3 to hear this conversation!
You don't know how God communicated this information to the Genesis writers!
Dogmatism doesn't cut it!
---1st_cliff on 11/22/11


Lee, as David says when 'day' is accompanied by a number people know it is 24hr day. In Exodus God accompanies both the days of creation and rest, and the Israelites days of work and rest, with a number, as He does in Genesis ch.1, where day-length is defined.

I defend the truth of Genesis by quoting Exodus 20:8-11 as confirmation that the 6 days of creation and 7th of rest are by definition the same 24hr length as the 6 days of work and 7th of rest, of the Israelites week.

Rejecting this renders language meaningless.

Your comment regarding Christians and the Sabbath is a red herring.

I believe early Christians did not observe Sunday as the Sabbath, but met for prayers before going to work.
---Warwick on 11/22/11


David you are correct, when we add 1, 2,3 etc or 1st, 2nd, third to 'day' it always means a 24hr day. Therefore when God told the Israelites to work 6 days He meant 6 24hr days. He told them to work 6 days because He created in 6 days. God therefore, in the terms you have explained has shown the days of creation are 24hr days as are the days of the working week, for the Israelites.

Read Numbers 7:11-78 are each of the 12 days mentioned here 24hr days? If yes, why? If no, why?

Please do not evade the point.
---Warwick on 11/22/11


Warwick, you again fail to understand the reason why ordinal numbers are used both in the Genesis account and in Exodus at Ex.20:8-11.

The use of ordinal numbers denotes order and rank.

You ask, 'If so how did they know when this "day" was so as to avoid execution?'

Is this the most ridiculous question ever, or are you just playing dumb? The seventh day followed the sixth Warwick! Can't you see that's why the ordinal use of numbers is used! God identified the seventh day as sacred, as a Sabbath. Strangely enough Warwick, the Israelites knew how to count, and knew when the seventh day occurred! It followed the sixth day.

God is instructing Israel not how long His 'day' was, but how to structure their week.
---David8318 on 11/22/11


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//If so how did they know when this "day" was so as to avoid execution?
---Warwick on 11/22/11

The Jewish calendar started with Moses and they then counted each seventh day to be the Sabbath.

Exodus 12:2 This month shall be for you the beginning of months. It shall be the first month of the year for you.

In any case, there is not so much as a hint of a command in the New Covenant for Christians to observe any day as holy.

The Christian Sabbath (Sunday) is the day Christians gather together for communal worship and that was a tradition started by the Apostles & their immediate successors way back in the first century.
---lee1538 on 11/22/11


David, Exodus 20:8-11:

"Remember the Sabbath day, ...Six days you shall labor, ....but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, ....... For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

31:15 says anyone who works on "the Sabbath day shall be put to death."

And you say "Ex. 20: has nothing to do with length of mans day."

If so how did they know when this "day" was so as to avoid execution?
---Warwick on 11/22/11


\\Did you get the point that Jesus was ruling out long-ages by saying man was created at the beginning of the creation (not creation week) that in which He and we live?\\

Did you get the point that Genesis says that man was created at the END of Creation?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/22/11


Does the belief in Evolution by Christians offend God?


Only if you believe it happened without Gods hand behind it.

Just because we think we know how something was made doesnt mean it wasnt Gods power behind it.
---JackB on 11/22/11


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Sorry Rocky-

it's Romans 1:20, not Acts.
---David8318 on 11/22/11


Cluny, as God is the creator of sexual reproduction I suppose he is definitely involved in it.

Did you get the point that Jesus was ruling out long-ages by saying man was created at the beginning of the creation (not creation week) that in which He and we live? The creation, as per Romans 8:22 "For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now."

Obviously if the long-ages of evolutionary belief are true then man appeared not at the beginning of the creation but by comparison almost at its end. However Jesus the Creator obviously knows the truth as no man does.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Warwick on 11/22/11


Christians do not believe in evolution, only NonChristians do.
---Eloy on 11/22/11


\\ The genetic information and this process were not happenstance, but created by God.\\

But that's what I've been saying.

\\ Babies are not created by purely natural means, but by the result of supernatural design-the opposite of that proposed by evolutionists.\\

Are you saying that God is involved in the sexual act? Just asking.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/21/11


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Cluny the proces by which Adam was created bear little if any similarity to the way babies are formed today. Didn't your mother tell you?

The unfolding of the genetic information, in the womb, is called entelechy, the unfolding of the genetic information supplied by the father and mother. The genetic information and this process were not happenstance, but created by God. Babies are not created by purely natural means, but by the result of supernatural design-the opposite of that proposed by evolutionists.

It is darkly humorous that any man would challenge what Jesus, an eye-witness, has said.He did not say man was made at the beginning of creation week but at the beginning of this creation in which we live.
---Warwick on 11/21/11


--David8318 11/21/11
Yes it does offend God, such that Acts 1:20 states those who do not believe creation despite the evidence are 'inexusable'.
Huh?
Act 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.
---Rocky on 11/21/11


Cliff, we live a 7 day week, where did we get that from?

Read Exodus 20:8-11 and tell me what word or phrase suggests the days (both God's 6+1 days and man's 6+1 days) are anything other that 7 ordinary 24hr days. If you claim they are not as written tell us why.

While you are at it read Numbers 7:11-78 and tell me if these are ordinary 24hr days or not. If yes, why? If not why?
---Warwick on 11/21/11


Shira, you are welcome.

I do not worry about sceptics, etc because I know they are wrong. However there are Scriptures which say we must be active in defending His Truth.

"For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds. We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God,...

"..always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you," 1 Peter 3:15.

There are wolves who would lead people away from God's word into heresies, and worldly compromises. They don't bother me however there are those who are at risk of being lead astray.

Thanks you for your concern.
---Warwick on 11/21/11


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Rocky, I agree with your answer to Anon, when she said,
"if you created something and weren't given the credit for it, would that upset you? Of course it offends God
--anon 11/18/11
How can you think that anything we do is capable of offending God?"

You are correct, God is in need of nothing, for He lacks nothing, for God exists forever. He is always the same. His life does not wax or wane. He does not gain new powers nor lose those He has always had. He does not mature or develop. He does not get stronger, or weaker, or wiser, as time goes by. He cannot change for the better. For He is already perfect: and being perfect, He cannot change for the worse. "Nothing can alter the character of God."
---Mark_V. on 11/21/11


Yes it does offend God, such that Acts 1:20 states those who do not believe creation despite the evidence are 'inexusable'. Creation deniers are 'inexcusable' as they turn the glory of God into 'four-footed creatures and creeping things.'

It is also wrong to squeeze God into mans count of time. They are vastly different as shown by the creation writer Moses at Psalms 90:4. Moses believed a day with God to be as 'a thousand years'. As no human has lived a 1000yrs, 'a day' with God cannot be measured in human terms.

However, God used his creative week to determine mans working week. Israelites knew how long a day was- but Ex.20:8-11 told them how to structure their working week. Ex.20 has nothing to do with length of mans day.
---David8318 on 11/21/11


Genesis 1, God moved upon the face of the waters and brought forth dry land.

The waters were in one place, the dry land in the other. The Bible supports pangaea, a super continent. The Bible also supports a great earthquake where the earth was divided. This was at the time of the building of the tower of Babylon.
Absolutely possible the continents did not break apart until man filled the earth.

Genesis 10:25 And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of
one was Peleg, for in his days was the earth divided, and his brother's name was Joktan.

The name, Peleg, actually means "earthquake".
The Hebrew word for earth means ground, or land, and divided means, to split or to divide.
---kathr4453 on 11/21/11


\\Why would God who created nature need to work through it to achieve His creative ends?\\

Is not every baby born just as human as Adam? Does God specially create their bodies from scratch, or does He allow them to be formed through the natural means He set up for the purpose? (The origin of the soul is a different issue, and irrelevant to this particular matter.)

\\Why Did Jesus, the Creator, say man was made at the beginning of this creation if he sort of semi-evolved after eons of God working through nature?\\

Good question, as Genesis 1 makes it clear that mankind was NOT created first thing. Why DID Jesus say something that disagreed with the Bible?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/21/11


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Part 2: God doesn't mention specifics of how He does things, only that they are done. From man's point of view we believe what He says by faith. The same for the trees "whose seed is in itself" The principle of reproduction that marks all life. God set in motion a providential process, where by the vegetable kingdom could reproduce through seeds, which would maintain each one's unique characteristics. Yet we are told that in one day there was trees. He doesn't tell us it took years to grow. Of course this is not possible from man's point of view. They cannot comprehend how that was done so they build a case for time. Just like they do with the stars and planets. My own impute. Take it or leave it. I'm on no ones side on this.
---Mark_V. on 11/21/11


Rocky: "And all out of nothing. There you see nothing. There you have a universe. What logic or reason explains how he did that?"

Psa 33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made, and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.

Psa 33:9 For he spake, and it was done, he commanded, and it stood fast.

Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Now, what were you saying? Speaking of magic tricks, explain the appearance of matter for the Big Bang, and the sudden appearance of life in the Cambrian layer.
---jerry6593 on 11/21/11


Rocky, Copperfield and Houdini worked illusions whereas God carefully designed each creature from the smallest gnat to dinosaurs,grass to oak trees etc.. no magic here!
---1st_cliff on 11/21/11


Lee, Psalm 104:6 "You covered it with the deep the waters stood above the mountains. At your rebuke they fled,.They flowed over the mountains, they went down into the valleys, to the place you assigned for them. You set a boundary that they may not pass, so that they might not again cover the earth." This brings to mind Genesis 9:11 "I establish my covenant with you, that never again shall all flesh be cut off by the waters of the flood, and never again shall there be a flood to destroy the earth."
Where did the flood waters go when they subsided? Back into the oceans from whence they came! (Genesis 7:11 the fountains of the great deep broke open).
---Warwick on 11/21/11


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Warwick, **having defined a day** is your interpretation.
I believe there were 6 days (yoms) as periods of time that God used as a "model" to illustrate His creating in 6 periods of time.
So weekly they demonstrated His working 6 days and resting the seventh!
Much more logical than jamming the whole creation into 144 hours for no good reason!
The 6th day alone says "not enough time" Adam was not superman!
If God zapped everything in seconds, why did he bother putting Adam to sleep when creating Eve?
---1st_cliff on 11/21/11


Lee, conversely I believe your antiBiblical long-ages evolutionary views forbid you accept what Genesis or the NT says. You are ignoring what is written.

According to Biblical Hebrew experts the Hebrew for 'all' 'kol' can mean less than all the earth, in context. However regarding Genesis 7:19 "And the waters prevailed so mightily on the earth that all (Hebrew 'kol') the high mountains under the whole (Hebrew 'kol') heaven were covered. The double use of 'kol' in this verse can only mean the whole world was covered by the flood, as 2 Peter 3:5,6. agrees. Leupold also agrees.
---Warwick on 11/21/11


Warwick, don't worry about the skeptics, just believe God. God said He created all, and that means everything. God knows how He did it and He knows everything that man thinks he knows. Scientist don't know anything in relation to God. Thanks for your reply.
---shira_4368 on 11/21/11


Cluny, sorry, some times I become a little confused as to what the different BiblioSceptics here believe.

Why would God who created nature need to work through it to achieve His creative ends? If He in fact did this, working over obviously long-ages, why did He tell us He did it all in 6-days, confirming them as ordinary 24hr days? Is He embarassed to admit He isn't truly Almighty, and couldn't do it in 6-days, so fibbed?

Why Did Jesus, the Creator, say man was made at the beginning of this creation if he sort of semi-evolved after eons of God working through nature? Did He fib here also?
---Warwick on 11/20/11


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--1stcliff 11/20/11
allows for the time needed to develop each event without jamming them into hours for no good reason!
As opposed to jamming them into days for no good reason? Or months? Or minutes? Why is any time period more reasonable than another for creation?
Our Creator is a God of "order" logic and reason, He doesn't do magic tricks!
Hey his creation of the world sure has David Copperfield and Houdini beat for magical acts. And all out of nothing. There you see nothing. There you have a universe. What logic or reason explains how he did that? Add a couple of days and you have mankind created and many other things. Voila!
---Rocky on 11/20/11


Cliff, why did God say He created in 6 days, having defined what a day is (just as it is today) and then confirmed they are ordinary 24hr days in Exodus 20:8-11 if they aren't?

Did He lie?
---Warwick on 11/20/11


I absolutely believe the 6 days of creation in the order stated in Gen. Days as periods of time (perhaps equal in length) allows for the time needed to develop each event without jamming them into hours for no good reason!
Our Creator is a God of "order" logic and reason,He doesn't do magic tricks!
---1st_cliff on 11/20/11


As a person well grounded in the scientific method I know of no proveable scientific fact which disproves 6-day crration or the world-wide flood.
--Warwick 11/20/11
From Wikipedia "Flood geology"
in the contemporary literature, the term "flood geology" is often taken to be synonymous with young Earth creationism or creation science. "Flood geology" CONTRADICTS the scientific consensus in geology, physics, chemistry, molecular genetics, evolutionary biology, archaeology, and paleontology, and the scientific community considers the subject to be PSEUDOSCIENCE.
You have admitted parts of the Bible are not intended to be taken literally, this is just another of those parts.
---Rocky on 11/20/11


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Warwick //Lee, how uncouth you are to crudely ridicule of Ellen White who is not able to defend herself

yes, we can all see that you are really a pseudo-Adventist as they are really bed-fellows of yours.

But what is keeping you back from formally joining them, can't stop sipping on the wine vinegar?
Or is it that other rot gut juice you drink?

Not everything Ellen taught is wrong since she borrowed heavily from other authors, howbeit, she was booted out of a church when they refused to believe her visions that Christ would come in October 1844.
---lee1538 on 11/20/11


if you created something and weren't given the credit for it, would that upset you? Of course it offends God
--anon 11/18/11
How can you think that anything we do is capable of offending God? He is above it all. To think that you or anyone else can affect God that way is ridiculous. Moreover, Jesus' message was clearly about changing our minds so we have only love and no negative emotions, not letting the actions of others control our thinking. It would be foolish for him to be teaching that if God did not already have that quality.
---Rocky on 11/20/11


Cluny, maybe mathematics are different here in the southern hemisphere but Ellen Gould White adds up to 555 here! Isn't 555 the fake phone number prefix used in US movies and TV?

You haven't been sippin' the vintage altar wine again have you?
---Warwick on 11/19/11


Cluny, read Job 40:15-24 carefully and tell me what creature is being described here. Please don't tell me it is an elephant or hippopaotamus. "He makes his tail stiff like a cedar" would you liken the tail of an elephant or hippo. to a cedar? A twig maybe! "the first of the works of God.....Can one take him by his eyes, or pierce his nose with a snare?" If he was an elephant or hippo. or any animal alive today, certainly. But a dinosaur, no way?

BTW if you are interested I can refer you to scientific research upon T-Rex bone which was found unpermineralized, with blood cells and elastic fleshy parts inside. How could this be 60+ million years old?
---Warwick on 11/19/11


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Lee, how uncouth you are to crudely riducule of Ellen White who is not able to defend herself. I would prefer your vomit your scorn upon me as it is water off a ducks back.

That you are evasive and deceitful is shown by the many names under which you have written here over time.

BTW regarding distant starlight read Starlight, Time and the New Physics by Dr John Hartnett. John ( a friend and one time work-mate) is a tenured research professor at the University of Western Australia. He believes in 6-day creation and the world-wide flood.

As a person well grounded in the scientific method I know of no proveable scientific fact which disproves 6-day crration or the world-wide flood.
---Warwick on 11/20/11


\\Long-ages, and what is supposed to have occured before life sprang miraculously from the earth under its own steam cannot be separated from microbe to man evolution\\

But I don't believe that life sprang up "by its own steam," and have never said so.

i HAVE said that I believe God works through natural processes that He Himself set into motion.

But so many people here can't tell the difference between my two statements.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/20/11


What about God's point of view? Not from what should be possible from man's point of view.
When God spoke something into creation, it was done. There is nothing in God's Word to tells us the specifics of how He did that. What we do know is that when He said in His Word, "God created the heavens and the earth" They came into existence. The stars and planets did not start from something but started from nothing. So it didn't take them millions of years to be what they were when God created them. Man by his knowledge knows it takes millions of years for something to be what it is, but not with God. When God created man, He does not tell us He created an embryo, He created man already at an age He wanted him to be.
---Mark_V. on 11/20/11


Lee: "Intelligent questions on this forum are usually answered with slanderous remarks as apparently some really have no ability to think rationally."

How true! You and Cluny have just demonstrated your inability stay on topic and have a rational discourse by your slanderous and classless attacks against a woman who died nearly 100 years ago. You know that you have no biblical justification for your UN-orthodox adherance to the atheist's creation story, so you attack a poor old dead woman. Good grief!
---jerry6593 on 11/20/11


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Cluny, I have spent a few decades intimately involved with the creation/evolution issue, including many discussions with Scientists who accepted either Biblical creation or evolution.

The evolutionsts always hold to long-ages because such imagined ages are necessary for naturalistic evolution. Long-ages, and what is supposed to have occured before life sprang miraculously from the earth under its own steam cannot be separated from microbe to man evolution. They are both part of the one fairy-story.

The list I gave for Lee is an accurate if somewhat necessarily brief summary which shows the evolutionary order of things is opposite the Biblical order of things. And I give it to God that He knows better than man.
---Warwick on 11/19/11


\\Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a MAN, and HIS number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Apparently, you are gender confused.\\

Wrong again, as in everything else you say, jerry.

In the original Greek, the word is ANTHROPOU, which is generic (as opposed to ANIR, which is always male) and can mean either a man or a woman.

And do you DENY that Ellen Gould White adds up to 666?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/19/11


Romans 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working that which is unseemly,

But God will have his vengence on those who place the creation above the creator and are gender confused
---francis on 11/19/11


Warwick, I'd like to see that scripture that says dinosaurs and man lived together!
Strong reason for believing that the 6th day was longer than 24 hrs.
There's no evidence that men and dinosaurs co-existed!
(except in the Jurassic Park movie)or the "Flintstones"!
---1st_cliff on 11/19/11


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//Apparently, you are gender confused.
---
Why jerry that would be easy enough mistake to make after all, olde Ellen looked much like a man anyhow and had few feminine attributes. She probably even smelled like a man and as to confusion, just look at those who follow her.
---lee1538 on 11/19/11


Warwick //Bible: Earth before sun/stars. Evolution: Stars/sun before earth.

I suppose your god is one that was born at creation, that He really did not have much to do prior to the creation of this particular planet.

If Adam and his successors actually saw stars in the night, they probably had no concept at all that it took years for the light from those stars to reach earth. How then could the stars be created during a 7 literal creation days?

Intelligent questions on this forum are usually answered with slanderous remarks as apparently some really have no ability to think rationally.

But what can be said of those who goose-step behind some religious idiot that has an axe to grind with science or critical thought?
---lee1538 on 11/19/11


Cluny: "Ellen G. White (whose name adds up to 666) DOES offend God."

Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a MAN, and HIS number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Apparently, you are gender confused.
---jerry6593 on 11/19/11


Lee: "Cannot one believe in God and at the same time believe God used evolutionary means to create life as we see it today?"

Absolutely not! The two concepts are diametrically opposed to each other. If Evolution - in any form - is true, then the Bible is false and God is a liar. God wrote with His own finger that He created the heaven and the earth in six days, and He did it by speaking matter instantly into existence. Evolution, at its core, requires long ages for the impossible to become possible.

1Ki 18:21 .... How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if [Darwin], then follow him.
---jerry6593 on 11/19/11


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I would think that God would be rather grieved that a christian ( one who professes christ) would deny that God created everything out of nothing.

That would be a lack of faith

Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
---francis on 11/19/11


\\Bible: Earth before sun/stars. Evolution: Stars/sun before earth.\\

Warwick, can you tell the difference between evolution, which applies to the development of living things, and the origin of the universe?

Apparently not.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/19/11


If something offends you, it offends your god too, because you become like the gods you worship.
---John.usa on 11/18/11


Lee, God says He didn't use evolution, and the order is opposite to Scripture.

Bible: Earth before sun/stars. Evolution: Stars/sun before earth.

Bible: Earth covered in water initially. Evolution: Earth molten blob initially

Bible: Oceans first then dry land. Evolution: Dry land then oceans

Bible:Life first created on land. Evolution:Life started in oceans.

Bible: Plants created before the sun. Evolution: Plants came long after sun.

Bible: Fish and birds created together. Evolution: Fish formed long before birds.

Bible: Land animals created after birds. Evolution: land animals before whales.

Bible: Man and dinosaurs lived together. Evolution: Dinosaurs extinct long before man appeared.
---Warwick on 11/18/11


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Of course, the topic here is really evolution between the species not within the species. In other words, man did not evolve from a lower mammal such as a monkey or an ape. However, various animals have evolved over the centuries in order to better adapt to their environment.
---lee1538 on 11/18/11


Cannot one believe in God and at the same time believe God used evolutionary means to create life as we see it today?
---lee1538 on 11/18/11


Jerry, if you created something and weren't given the credit for it, would that upset you? Of course it offends God. It's a lie from the pit of hell.

Christians should NOT be believing in Evolution. Here is the definition of Evolution: In the beginning GOD, God created, God spoke and it was day, etc.,
---anon on 11/18/11


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