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Upon This Rock

In Matthew 16:18 Jesus said "UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH". Was Jesus saying this "ROCK" is Peter, or is this "ROCK" the answer Peter gave in Matthew 16:16?

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Trav:
The fact that Peter was commanded to go to the lost sheep of Israel does not automatically mean that he never went to Rome.
---StrongAxe on 11/29/11

The command of Christ that Apostles surely would not disobey implies that he fulfilled his mission.
Whether he was in Rome or not is secondary. What Rome claims is seldom supported in scripture. The word "gen-tile" was coined by Rome meaning, one not of Rome. What is a latin word doing in a Greek Translation? It's purest meaning is ethnos/nation. Implying by contextand OT prophet, Israel. They were the lost sheep. Lambs are of sheep. Christ's special directives to Peter.
---Trav on 11/29/11


Trav:

The fact that Peter was commanded to go to the lost sheep of Israel does not automatically mean that he never went to Rome. After all, there were also Jews in Rome, and all over the mediterranean, After all, Paul was preaching in synagogues in various Greek cities, and those weren't Greek synagogues. Besides, Jesus's ministry was ALSO to the lost sheep of Israel, yet on several occasions he minisered to gentiles.
---StrongAxe on 11/29/11


\\when the blind lead the blind, then both fall into the ditch.\\

That's why I don't listen to anything youm say, because youm do not know what youm are talking about.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/28/11


Ruben, you still won't answer my questions. Why is that?

Could it be because you know there is absolutely no Biblical support for the Pagan practices of the Catholic Church?
---Rob on 11/28/11


4074. Petros pet'-ros apparently a primary word, a (piece of) rock (larger than 3037), as a name, Petrus, an apostle:--Peter, rock. Compare 2786. Ruben

I did compare. 2786 is Aramaic for stone. 3037 is Lithos. neither of which are used in the passage. The words are Petros 4074 for peter and Petra 4073 for rock. Two different words with two different connotations. Why do you bring in other words not used here?
---Samuel on 11/28/11




It is a misdefining or a misnomer to metaphorically address them working in the same comission. For example, Jesus did Not address Peter thusly: "Rock, this night, before the rooster crow, you will deny me three times", Neither did he address Paul: "Small, I make you a minister and a witness to the Gentiles", Nor did he address John: "God Given, what you see write in a book", et cetera. Neither does he estrangely address any of us metaphorically whom are his.
---Eloy on 11/28/11


Ruben, being baptized by religion is not being baptized into Christ. Religion and idolatry is not Christianity: and when the blind lead the blind, then both fall into the ditch. Lord Jesus, please persuade Ruben to leave his catholic religion which is bondage, and lead him to become a real born-again Christian which is living, in you Lord Jesus I pray. A-men.
---Eloy on 11/28/11


Rhonda * Yes Apostles inspired by GOD state True Believers FAITH is based on the WORD ///

And the Apostles insired by God states also in scripture:

"But there are also many other things which Jesus did,.. written every one, the world itself, I think, would not be able to contain the books that should be written .(JHN 21:25)

Rhonda* there is no HUMAN ROCK

"look unto the rock whence ye are hewn,...Look unto Abraham your father,"(Isaiah 51"12)

" Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is interpreted Peter."(Jhn 1:42)

2786. Kephas kay-fas' of Chaldee origin (compare 3710), the Rock, Cephas (i.e. Kepha), a surname of Peter:--Cephas.
---Ruben on 11/28/11


Isaiah 26:4 Trust in the Lord forever,for the Lord,the Lord,is the Rock eternal. God is the eternal Rock,Christ would never call Peter that when it is one of his Fathers names. Simon answered Jesus when asked who Christ was "You are the Christ the son of the living God". Jesus was telling Simon "on this rock,I will build my church",meaning his church would be built upon God,the Rock,and the fact Christ is the son of the living God,the giver of the gospel message. God is a jealous God and he alone gave us the sacrifice for sins,his son,Christ and he would never share that glory with any mere mortal who didn't pay the ultimate price for our redeemption from sin. Peter's name meaning rock means nothing.
---Darlene_1 on 11/28/11


Rhonda:
You said: Peter was NEVER in Rome his ministery was to the JEWISH people

Do you have any proof to back this up?
---StrongAxe on 11/27/11

They all were commanded to look for the Lost Sheep of Israel. While not Judah, it is Israel.

Peter was commanded to "feed the Lambs",and sheep. Israel.
John 21:15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord, thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
John 21:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? .... Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

Matt10:6
But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
---Trav on 11/28/11




Rhonda:

You said: Peter was NEVER in Rome his ministery was to the JEWISH people

Do you have any proof to back this up?

Church tradition records that in his later years, Peter journeyed to Rome, ministered there, and was later crucified under Nero. He said he was not worthy of being dying in the same manner as his lord, so he was crucified upside down instead.
---StrongAxe on 11/27/11


Actually the New Testament is in Greek and it says "You are Petros often translated as stone and on this Petra which can be translated Cliff or Ledge I will build my church.
---Samuel on 11/25/11

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4074. Petros pet'-ros apparently a primary word, a (piece of) rock (larger than 3037), as a name, Petrus, an apostle:--Peter, rock. Compare 2786.
---Ruben on 11/27/11


aka * But instead he said " You are Kephas and upon this Kephas I will built my Church"
---Ruben on 11/25/11

Please tell us where?///

Jhn 1:42 "Now when Jesus looked at him, He said, You are Simon the son of Jonah. You shall be called Cephas

2786. Kephas kay-fas' of Chaldee origin (compare 3710), the Rock, Cephas (i.e. Kepha), a surname of Peter:--Cephas.

aka* in context, it is what Peter said about Jesus and not about Peter himself.///

But what did Jesus say about Peter:

"And I say to thee: That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church"

"And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven"
---Ruben on 11/27/11


People around here accuse various churches of being 'pagan.' What exactly is meant by 'pagan'? I thought pagan meant nature worship. Which Christian churches worship nature anyway?
---John.usa on 11/26/11


The apostles tell future generations that our Christian faith will be based soley on a book?
****

Yes Apostles inspired by GOD state True Believers FAITH is based on the WORD Luke 4:4

seeing Holy Scripture WARNS about men coming along teaching CONTRARY to Christ and Apostles

there is no HUMAN ROCK

Peter was NEVER in Rome his ministery was to the JEWISH people

Peter taught Christ was the rock 1Pet2:6

Paul taught Christ was the rock

Eph1:22, Col 1:18, 1 Cor 11

RCC teaches CONTRARY to Christ and Apostles and rcc's "Peter" (NOT Apostle Peter) was their rock

rcc has her church and traditions ABOUT Holy Scripture

Christ who is THE WORD is the only ROCK of salvation
---Rhonda on 11/26/11


Actually the New Testament is in Greek and it says "You are Petros often translated as stone and on this Petra which can be translated Cliff or Ledge I will build my church.
---Samuel on 11/25/11


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Ruben, I have answered your questions with what is clearly written in scripture. Why do you continue to avoid answering the questions I have asked you with scripture?

Another point I have to prove you are in a FALSE and PAGAN RELIGION is the fact the Pope, Cardinals, Bishops, and Priest are forbidden to marry. We are warned about those who teach thse very things in 1 Timothy 4:1-3.
---Rob on 11/25/11


But instead he said " You are Kephas and upon this Kephas I will built my Church"
---Ruben on 11/25/11

Please tell us where?

i believe why the bible is written the way it is so we are constantly compelled to ask, seek, and knock.

in context, it is what Peter said about Jesus and not about Peter himself.

if shifting sand is your rock, then so be it.
---aka on 11/25/11


ruben, I will be very frank with you. Ruben, you really need to give up your catholicism, and replace it with Christianity. You need to become born-again in order to be accepted by God.
---Eloy on 11/24/11


Eloy,

I was born again in the waters of Baptism(JHN 3:5) which saved my soul ( 1 Peter 3:21, Titus 3:5) through the power of Jesus Christ my Savior and Lord. I pray that you come out of your false christianity from 1600 and begin studying whar the early christian(Church) believed!
---Ruben on 11/25/11


Bill* If God wanted us to clearly understand that "this rock" meant Peter, He could have had Jesus say, "upon you, Peter, I will build My church."

And if Jesus wanted us to clearly understand he was the rock, he should had said 'upon me the rock'. But instead he said " You are Kephas and upon this Kephas I will built my Church"
---Ruben on 11/25/11


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But Paul corrected them > Galatians 2:11-21. He was not a very solid rock to build on!!!
---Bill_willa6989 on 11/24/11

good post and conclusion.

Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

we are all limited. the body of christ (church) is not.
---aka on 11/24/11


If God wanted us to clearly understand that "this rock" meant Peter, He could have had Jesus say, "upon you, Peter, I will build My church."

Well, Peter was the first to minister the Holy Spirit to Gentiles > Acts chapter 10. But Acts chapter 9 shows that Paul was in the church with his gift of apostleship to the Gentiles (see Galatians 2:8 (c: ), just before Peter ministered to Gentiles. Then Peter and other Jews "played the hypocrite" against Gentile believers, betraying the Holy Spirit whom he had ministered to Gentiles. But Paul corrected them > Galatians 2:11-21. He was not a very solid rock to build on!!!
---Bill_willa6989 on 11/24/11


Our job IN RESPONSE to God's CALLING:
IDENTIFY ourselves and AGREE mentally, vocally and demonstratively
with the CALLING He gives us.
Matt16/ Peter agreed with Jesus' God-given IDENTIFICATION/CALLING(Thou art Messiah, Son of God).
This agreement with the WORD OF GOD made Peter a rock(foundation).
2 or 3 verses later, Peter disagreed with the CALLING of Jesus and actually rebuked Jesus.
Immediately, Jesus IDENTIFIED Peter as satan(THE adversary).

IF Jesus identified Peter as Pope based on the early portion of this passage, then Jesus identified him as SATAN based on the latter.
Rather, Jesus is teaching us, agreement with THE WORD makes leaders firm. Disagreement makes THOSE SAME LEADERS enemies of God's will.
---Legends on 11/24/11


Ruben, it is typical for those who are caught up in PAGAN RELIGIONS, to avoid answering questions, by not answering the questions they are asked through asking questions.

The answers to your questions, are indeed found is scripture.

We are to study and know scripture, Acts 17:11, 2 Timothy 2:14-19, Hebrews 4:12, etc.

God is the Father, John Chapter Eight

God is the Son, Genesis 1:1, John 1:1-19, Matthew 1:16-32, Ephesians 3:7-10.

God is Spirit, Genesis 1:2, Matthew 28:19, John 4:21-24.

Ruben, I have answered your questions with scripture.

Let's see if you will answer the questions I asked you on 11/22/11 concerning your FALSE and PAGAN RELIGION, or if you will continue to avoid answering them.
---Rob on 11/24/11


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ruben, My credentials is my manifested transformed Christianed life, and the recorded witnessed exploits worked by me from the Holy Spirit. I am born-again, transformed into a holy creation, translated into the Kingdom not of this world, consecrated, sanctified, endued with the most Holy Spirit and discerning mind from Christ Almighty, and I am ordained and commanded and sent by my Lord himself, and there is absolutely no other higher authority upon this earth nor in the heaven. Why do you ask?
---Eloy on 11/24/11


ruben, I will be very frank with you. Ruben, you really need to give up your catholicism, and replace it with Christianity. You need to become born-again in order to be accepted by God.
---Eloy on 11/24/11


Eloy* ruben, We Christians are commanded to go share the gospel with others,

Who gave you authorithy on interpretation of scripture?



Eloy* "Receive all you the Holy Ghost: whose soever sins you all disregard, they are disregarded onto them: whose soever you all regard they are bound.

Jesus was speaking to the Apostles only,Christ breathed upon the Apostles and gave them this authorithy. I had no idea you were there:)


Eloy* And how will they hear without a preacher?

And the preacher has to teach what the Apostles and their successors taught, Eurcharist, infant baptism, Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition. Which a preacher from 1600 forward do not do!
---Ruben on 11/23/11


Golly, I would be happy to see our Roman Catholic .
---lee1538 on 11/23/11


"And what about the 'keys of the kingdom' ? The keys of a royal or noble establishment were entrusted to the chief steward or majordomo, he carried them on his shoulder in earlier times, and there they served as a badge of the authority entrusted to him. About 700 B.C. an oracle from God announced that this authority in the royal palace in Jerusalem was to be conferred on a man called Eliakim ....(Isaiah 22:22). So in the new community which Jesus was about to build, Peter would be, so to speak, chief steward." (Bruce, The Hard Sayings of Jesus [Intervarsity Press, 1983], 143-144, as cited in Butler/Dahlgren/Hess, page 41)

F.F. Bruce
---Ruben on 11/23/11


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Ruben//if you read the Bible every day as you claim, please show me where I can find the following things which Catholics believe/practice.

Golly, I would be happy to see our Roman Catholic friends to be able to show up where the keys Christ gave to Peter were passed downward to the bishops of Rome. It seems that history has no verification that this was done.
---lee1538 on 11/23/11

And I've yet to see non-catholic's prove it wrong:)
---Ruben on 11/23/11


Ruben//if you read the Bible every day as you claim, please show me where I can find the following things which Catholics believe/practice.

Golly, I would be happy to see our Roman Catholic friends to be able to show up where the keys Christ gave to Peter were passed downward to the bishops of Rome. It seems that history has no verification that this was done.
---lee1538 on 11/23/11


Poppa Bear, what you said is very true. Both of your comments were right on. I believe that some will never see the Truth no matter how much Truth is given. If you present a Bible passage, they then say, who said the Bible was the only Truth? So then the Bible comes into question. All to support a denomination. No matter the denomination. If our hearts were on the right motive, we would be open to receive the Truth. But there is always a motive. Even if they compromise the real Truth, to protect or defend their denomination. They close their eyes to the real Truth, and receive a lie instead.
---Mark_V. on 11/23/11


ruben, We Christians are commanded to go share the gospel with others, so that they too may be unlocked from their bondages of sin, and become saved and enter into the kingdom of heaven. lit.Gk: "Receive all you the Holy Ghost: whose soever sins you all disregard, they are disregarded onto them: whose soever you all regard they are bound. Go all you into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature, whom obeys and is baptized will be saved, but whom not obeys will be condemned. For whosoever will call upon the name of the Lord will be saved. And how will they hear without a preacher? Therefore faith from hearing, and the hearing through a word of God." Jn.20:22,23+ Mk.16:15,16+ Rom.10:13,14,17.
---Eloy on 11/22/11


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Thank you John, that is rare around here.
In His grip
---Poppa_Bear on 11/22/11


Ruben, if you read the Bible every day as you claim, please show me where I can find the following things which Catholics believe/practice.

The Pope is the Holy Father and also infalable.

The Pope, and not CHRIST is the head of the CHURCH.

Paying to the DEAD.

I have been studying the Bible for over 40 years, and yet to find any of these things!
---Rob on 11/22/11

Rob, if you claim to be 'studying' the bible for over 40 years, please show in scripture where:

The apostles tell future generations that our Christian faith will be based soley on a book?

It provide a list of the canonical books of the OT & NT?

Explain the doctrine of the Trinity, or even use the word 'Trinity?
---Ruben on 11/22/11


PoppaBear, nicely stated. Thanks.
---John.usa on 11/22/11


True the RCC does not activatily hunt down and murder hertics that is anyone who disagrees with them today. But they approve of the fact it was done. After all the recent apologies for their actions against so many. They still have others they have not said they were sorry about.
---Samuel on 11/22/11


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Maybe the Church knew that this was going to happen and try to stop it." That is what the religious leaders tried to do to Jesus, stop him from speaking eternal truths to common people outside of their established hierarchy. Same with the Apostles. They didnt want uneducated fishermen presuming to know the mind of God. The reason we have the term dark ages is because the Catholic Church suppressed science, education, philosophy and reading. They smothered mans God given abilities for industry, learning, progress and reason. They suppressed by force, excommunication, fear and death and did it in the name of Jesus. The reformation broke that yoke upon Europe and Gods word has ben able to be placed in over 10000 different tongues to date.
---Poppa_Bear on 11/22/11


Part II
Many Denominations tried to follow the Catholic early pattern of tyranny and none succeeded, it is diametrically opposed to the life of our Lord. I do understand that fallible men have been in every aspect of religion from the Holy Temple in Jerusalem, to the Popes palaces, down to the local Baptist Church, it is the nature of sin. Now needing to protect people from Gods word, Paul said what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. (Phil 1-18P) There will never be a time in this world when people wont use religion for selfish gain, but Gods truth is Spirit, and His truth is His word, so put it in as many hands as possible.
---Poppa_Bear on 11/22/11


Ruben, if you read the Bible every day as you claim, please show me where I can find the following things which Catholics believe/practice.

The Pope is the Holy Father and also infalable.

The Pope, and not CHRIST is the head of the CHURCH.

Arch Bishops, and Cardinals.

Saying HAIL MARY'S and praying to Mary.

Praying the ROSARY.

Paying to the DEAD.

I have been studying the Bible for over 40 years, and yet to find any of these things!
---Rob on 11/22/11


Before the reformation and for about two hundred years after, it was illegal to read and translate the Bible into the common language. 1215 Pope Innocent III issued law, that they shall be seized for trial and penalties, WHO ENGAGE IN THE TRANSLATION OF THE SACRED VOLUMES. The Council of Toulouse (1229) FORBADE THE LAITY TO POSSESS OR READ THE VERNACULAR TRANSLATIONS OF THE BIBLE Council of Trent 1546, German, Spanish, and English Bible's , were prohibited books.
---Poppa_Bear on 11/22/11

It was about he 1500's when the false doctrine of Sola Scriptura was invented. Now look at it now, everyone has there own interpretation of scripture, maybe the Church knew that this was going to happen and try to stop it..
---Ruben on 11/22/11


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PoppaBear, that is all past history. I know that Catholics there days encourage Bible study and conduct Bible studies. And scripture is read in the vernacular at every mass. Luther wrote that Jews should all be killed, but that doesn't make today's Lutherans antisemitic. That was also past history.
---John.usa on 11/22/11


Eloy* ruben, All of us are given Christ's Holy Spirit, and the keys to the kingdom.

Show me in scripture where we all received the 'Key' to the kingdom of Heaven?

Eloy * And not just deceased peter, whom has proven to be very weak in his faith, denying Christ three times,

God always chooses the weak to make them strong!

In fact this weak person Jesus himself said 'Feed my sheep'. Peter was the one who made a doctrinal decision on circumcision at the first counal of Jerusalem, scripture says "All kept silent"(Acts 15:12) Cornelius is told by an Angel to call upon Peter, let's not forget Angels are messengers of God.(Acts 10:5) Peter is call a Rock by Jesus (JHN 1:42) which by the way you have not answer!
---Ruben on 11/22/11


John usa, I have been to a Catholic Mass. No one, except for myself, had a Bible including the so called Catholic Priest.

Also, while going to my place of Worship, I see people going to Catholic Mass. Not one of them have a Bible with them.
---Rob on 11/22/11

Rob,

We are going to Mass to worship our Lord, not to have a Bible class...I read the Bible everyday:)
---Ruben on 11/22/11


John usa, I have been to a Catholic Mass. No one, except for myself, had a Bible including the so called Catholic Priest.

Also, while going to my place of Worship, I see people going to Catholic Mass. Not one of them have a Bible with them.
---Rob on 11/22/11


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Before the reformation and for about two hundred years after, it was illegal to read and translate the Bible into the common language. History is full of people who did at the cost of their lives. 1215 Pope Innocent III issued law, that they shall be seized for trial and penalties, WHO ENGAGE IN THE TRANSLATION OF THE SACRED VOLUMES. The Council of Toulouse (1229) FORBADE THE LAITY TO POSSESS OR READ THE VERNACULAR TRANSLATIONS OF THE BIBLE Council of Trent 1546, German, Spanish, and English Bible's , were prohibited books. People were forbidden to read the Bible without license from a bishop or inquisitor. It wasnt until the 1800s that the Bible could be read by common folk, so for about 1500 years it was forbidden, sounds silly to some.
---Poppa_Bear on 11/22/11


ruben, You are under great delusion, and unless you repent you will surely persih in your sin. For the truth is: "Christ the Creator is in charge, and he has never relinquished his command to any one: and of His Kingdom there is no end, Christ's Holy Spirit is fulfilling this final dispensation around his earth, and very very soon Christ Almighty will come in the clouds and judge every sinner and cast them into hell for their disobedience and blasphemy. Now will you accept Christ, or will you remain separate from him and continue to embrace your idolatry?
---Eloy on 11/22/11


ruben, All of us saints are given Christ's Holy Spirit, and the keys to the kingdom. And he has commnded us to go into the world and feed the sheep, clothe the naked, heal the sick, raise the dead, visit the infirmed and them in prison. And not just deceased peter, whom has proven to be very weak in his faith, denying Christ three times, and because of his insufficient faith he was sinking and needed to be saved from drowning. But my place is not to judge dead peter, but to exalt the everliving and ruling Christ Almighty: for in Christ alone will you be saved, and never in peter nor mary nor paul nor any other creature. Please Read- I Corinthians 1:12,13 + I Corinthians 3:6,7,11.
---Eloy on 11/22/11


That is SO funny - Catholics are forbidden to read the Bible. Where do people come up with these silly ideas? :)
---John.usa on 11/21/11


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Ruben, if you want the answer to your question all you need to do is read Matthew Chapter 23.

But then again, Catholics are forbidden to read the Bible.
---Rob on 11/21/11


Eloy* ruben, you have embraced the lie that Christ Jesus the Only head of His own church has been replaced by someone else.

And you embrace the lie that Jesus did not leave a earthly person in charge of his Church!
---Ruben on 11/21/11


ruben, Here is a test.
---Eloy on 11/21/11

Where is a test for you?

Did Jesus change Simon name to Cephas, which means Rock?

Did Jesus give Peter and only Peter the keys to the kingdom of Heaven?

Did Jesus tell Peter to
Feed my sheep?
---Ruben on 11/21/11


ruben, you have embraced the lie that Christ Jesus the Only head of His own church has been replaced by someone else. Christ was, Christ is, and Christ always will be the chief leader of his Christian church, always and at all times. The Christian worships Christ, the Christian prays to Christ, the Christian follows Christ, the Christian obeys Christ, the Christian is in Christ and Christ in his Christian. There is no other creature that will ever take the place of Christ Almighty. And when you replace Christ the Only Salvation and Commander of his creation with any other idol, you are lost and antiChrist. You might as well embrace a tree or pray to dirt, for it is just as foolish to try to replace the One living God with futile idols.
---Eloy on 11/21/11


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All idolaters call Jesus a liar, because they refuse to accept Christ as the Only proven Redeemer and God for them. And in vain they try to replace the only one that God has established in the face of all the world to be the Most High Word, which is proven by his holy and sinless life, and his works that only God can do, and his own recorded resurrection from death and his manifested ascension in the face of his creation. Now peter's bones are still in his grave, mary's bones are still in her grave: but the Lord Christ Almighty's grave is empty for he has raised his body back up from the dead, and he has shown himself alive, his body can be touched, and he talks to us and commands us, and he ascends bodily back up into heaven.
---Eloy on 11/21/11


ruben, Here is a test. Since you have coinfidence in Peter, I challenge you as Elijah had challenged those whom trusted in idols, call upon Peter to do some supernatural thing like cast out a demon which is infesting a person. And try earnestly, even fast for a few days before hand, and then invoke the name of Peter to cleanse the person. Afterward, as I know full-well you will fail miserably. Now, do the samething again, but instead try casting the demon out by the name of Jesus Christ, and I promise you that you will have positive results and the demon will be cast out. Why? because proof is in the putting, when you put truth out then truth happens, but when you put futility out then futility will happen.
---Eloy on 11/21/11


Ruben, why does the Catholic Religion do the very things that Christ Himself rebuked the Scribes and Pharisees of doing?
---Rob on 11/21/11


Which is?
---Ruben on 11/21/11


And the Father only reveals this to His people when He gives them spiritual life in their once dead spirit. Afterall, "FAITH is a gift from God." It is not from within but from without.
---christan on 11/18/11


Jesus does not built his Church on 'Faith' nor 'Confession' but on people (Eph 2:20_
---Ruben on 11/21/11


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If Peter was the head of the church, then why was James in charge at the Jerusalem council?
---jerry6593 on 11/19/11

Peter is the head of the church, he decided the issue about circumcision! In fact after Peter spoke it reads "All kept silent"...And if you see Acts 15 disproves Sola Scriptura,'if' Peter going by scripture only would had all(Gentiles) circumcised, since all Patriarchs, prophets were, the Apostles and even Jesus himself!
---Ruben on 11/21/11


And I thereupon to you say, being you Peter, that yet on this Rock I will build me the commanded, and gates of hell will not have prevailing power against this." See how my Lord says to peter that the Rock is "this" and not "you" when replying to peter?

Notice Jesus said " And Upon This Rock not but upon this Rock, also after calling Peter rock he goes on and tell Peter I will give you(Peter) the 'Keys' to the kingdom of Heaven. I also notice you did not touch his name change from Simon to Cephhas which means 'Rock', why?

Eloy * If Jesus was calling peter The Rock, then Jesus would be a blasphemous liar

The only ones calling Jesus a liar are those who refuse to believe Jesus!
---Ruben on 11/21/11


ruben, I corrected you for idolatry before. lit.Gk: "Simon Peter answered and said, You are the Christ, the Son from God live. And I thereupon to you say, being you Peter, that yet on this Rock I will build me the commanded, and gates of hell will not have prevailing power against this." See how my Lord says to peter that the Rock is "this" and not "you" when replying to peter? If Jesus was calling peter The Rock, then Jesus would be a blasphemous liar like sinners are, but he was not referring to peter but "this" which "this" clearly refers to Jesus' identity, which peter identified Jesus' Godhead clearly, which Godhead the onslaughts of hell have zero power against.
---Eloy on 11/21/11


Ruben, why does the Catholic Religion do the very things that Christ Himself rebuked the Scribes and Pharisees of doing?
---Rob on 11/21/11


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I think Augustine recognized alternate interpretations existed.
---lee1538 on 11/18/11

"For, if the order of the succession of bishops is to be considered, how much more surely, truly, and safely do we number them from Peter, to whom the Lord said: 'Upon this Rock I will build my Church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." For to Peter succeeded Linus, to Linus Clement ... To Julius Liberius, to Liberius Damasus, to Damasus Sircius, to Sircius Anastasius." (St. Augustine, Epistle 53)
---Ruben on 11/20/11


Jesus alone is The Rock,
---Eloy on 11/19/11


But he name Peter Rock:

And he brought him to Jesus.
Now when Jesus looked at him, He said, You are Simon the son of Jonah.You shall be called Cephas

2786. Kephas kay-fas' of Chaldee origin (compare 3710), the Rock, Cephas (i.e. Kepha), a surname of Peter:--Cephas.

And he does it again in Matthew 16:16-18 " Peter(Kephas), and on this Rock(Kephas) I will build My church"
---Ruben on 11/20/11


Why did Jesus rename Simon bar Jona "Rocky"?
---John.usa on 11/19/11


not Peter, but that Jesus is The Messiah

Here is the rock:
Matthew 16:16 Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
---francis on 11/19/11


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Jerry //If Peter was the head of the church, then why was James in charge at the Jerusalem council?
---
Maybe he did not like administrative duties.

Acts 6:2 And the twelve summoned the full number of the disciples and said, It is not right we should give up preaching the word of God to serve tables.

It was Peter that stood up and "God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke (things like Sabbath keeping, dietary laws, etc.) that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear?
---lee1538 on 11/19/11


If Peter was the head of the church, then why was James in charge at the Jerusalem council?
---jerry6593 on 11/19/11


Peter was no pope. you can bank on that one. Christ built his church on THE ROCK. The Rock is God.
---shira4368 on 11/19/11


J. U.S.A. NOT so.

Jesus made Apostle Peter The First Salvation messenger, Acts 2 v 38 to the Jewish people First on the day of Pentecost.

The trinity apostates with the first pope came yr's later. Aft nero, & other roman leaders went to kill off the Acts 2 v 38 Early Church saints.

They didn't get us all. The Acts 2 v 38 Church of The Living God Is Still Alive & well today, until the rapture takes place.
---Lawrence_Nemeth on 11/19/11


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The answer is Matt. 16:16, Christ is the Rock.
---michael_e on 11/19/11


Jesus alone is The Rock, all else is sinking sand. Jesus alone is the precious cornerstone to the Christian Church, and Jesus is the Rock of offense to sinners. To foolishly try to replace peter whom denied Christ three times and Christ saved him from drowning becasue of his lack of faith is no rock at all, but Christ is The Rock, The Only Rock for all mankind to cleave to, he is worthy of all worship and acceptation, a sure foundation, but peter is proven not to be Christ but a weak-faithed man in need of the Rock, in need of Salvation. Little children, Christ alone is God, and keep yourselves from idols.
---Eloy on 11/19/11


I was told that's when Jesus made Peter the first pope.
---John.usa on 11/18/11


For men who wished to be built upon men, said, "I am of Paul, I of Apollos, I of Cephas." who is Peter. But others who did not wish to build upon Peter, but upon the Rock , said, "But I am of Christ." And when the Apostle Paul ascetained that he was chosen and Christ despised, he said, "Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?" And as not in the name of Paul, so neither in the name of Peter, but in the name of Christ, that Peter might be built upon the Rock, not the Rock upon Peter" St Augustine, Sermons on NT Lessons, 26.1-2

I think Augustine recognized alternate interpretations existed.
---lee1538 on 11/18/11


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In verses 15-18 it shows that the "Rock" was the revelation of Jesus as the Christ.
Rock in the Greek is "petra" and it means "big stone, large rock".

Peter in the Greek means "small rock". Jesus revealed Himself as the Christ to Peter to present to people after His ascention into heaven.
---Rickey on 11/18/11


Matt 7:24 Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock
Luke 6:47-48 As for everyone who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice, I will show you what they are like. They are like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock.
Jesus, Word of God, is the rock, man lives by every word which proceeds out of the mouth of God, puts all Jesus words into practice
---Chria9396 on 11/18/11


If you're a RC, that Rock to you is Peter - which obviously is not what Jesus was proclaiming.

The Rock according to the Holy Bible is Jesus Christ and only FAITH in Him are you considered part of His church. Verse 17 of the same chapter tells us, "And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven."

And the Father only reveals this to His people when He gives them spiritual life in their once dead spirit. Afterall, "FAITH is a gift from God." It is not from within but from without.
---christan on 11/18/11


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