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Early Church Observe Sabbath

Did the early church observe the Old Testament Sabbath?

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 ---lee1538 on 11/18/11
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//Genesis 2:2 And on the 7th day God ended his work which he made, and he rested on the 7th day from all his work which he had made.

Since there is NO 'evening and the morning were the seventh day', does that mean God is still resting?

Seriously, we see NOTHING in the Bible that any other people observed the Sabbath except the nation of Israel. And that is ONLY reflected in the covenant He made with them at Mt. Sinai.

If Christians were to observe a Sabbath would we not see it commanded in the New Covenant?
All we see is Romans 14:5

"One person esteems one day above another, another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind."

(11:13) Now I am speaking to you Gentiles.
---lee1538 on 11/30/11


Francis 11/30: 'Show FROM THE BIBLE where sunday is the lord's day?'

Rev 1:10 'I was in the spirit on the Lord's day.....'

The word for 'Lord's day' IS THE WORD FOR SUNDAY (in Greek, in which Revelation is written)
---Peter on 11/30/11


But the SDA does NOT do things God's way.
--Cluny on 11/30/11

YADI YADI YA where is your proof?
ALl you do is make very very vain pointless unbiblical accusations. You belive what you say is true. That and that alone is the problem here.

Show FROM THE BIBLE where sunday is the lord's day?
---francis on 11/30/11


\\Avtually SDA just INSIST on being ORTHODOX and doing things RIGHT. That is doing things GOD's way.\\

But the SDA does NOT do things God's way.

You're not so confused as to think they do, are you?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/30/11


Let me say here and now that the SDA's insistence on the Saturday Sabbath. --Cluny on 11/30/11
Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Exodus 16:26 Six days ye shall gather it, but on the seventh day, [which is] the sabbath, in it there shall be none.

Acts 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Avtually SDA just INSIST on being ORTHODOX and doing things RIGHT. That is doing things GOD's way.
---francis on 11/30/11




Let me say here and now that the SDA's insistence on the Saturday Sabbath are the LEAST of their problems.

Among other things, they have a strange doctrine of salvation that makes Satan the sin bearer who takes away the sins of the world.

And when an SDA wishes to become a real Orthodox Christian, he is received through canonical Orthodox baptism by triple immersion and emersion.

Most other non-Orthodox are merely Chrismated.

Glory to Jesus Christ.
---Cluny on 11/30/11


Cluny: "But the Church that Jesus founded--the Orthodox--NEVER descended into apostasy."

True. The REAL Orthodox, by your own definition, are those that kept and taught the teachings, beliefs, etc. of Jesus and the apostles. Since we now all agree that Jesus and the apostles kept the Seventh-day Sabbath exclusively, the REAL Orthodox are those that keep the Sabbath - such as the SDAs. So it seems that you contradict yourself when you claim that you are Orthodox and SDAs are apostate "by definition".

You also should address how your non-biblical belief in theistic Evolution squares with Orthodox teaching.
---jerry6593 on 11/30/11


So a church that participated and endoresed muder torture and war never decended into apostacy.

I do not see how a non apostate church will work from hate when JESUS said his church will be known by love.

Seventh day Adventist preach the Gospel that Paul endorsed and follows in the footsteps of Wesley. Read his sermons about Sabbath breakers. Google them.

We are saved by Grace alone. But as Wesley points out Grace leads to love which leads to keeping the commandments. Read I john
---Samuel on 11/29/11


Francis //As i have often said before, even in the lifetime of the apostles apostacy had already started.

True, however much of what Adventism teaches reflects much of those apostasies.

It is just too easy to see that Adventism has doctrines not taught by the Apostles and certainly does NOT reflect that faith ONCE AND FOR ALL delivered to the Saints.

Jude 3 Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.

You really rid yourself of that demon within you that tells you Adventists have been given a special recognition. The started with error and they continued to keep it.
---lee1538 on 11/29/11


\\All Lee (and Bachiocchi) ARE arguing over is how long it took for the Church to descend into apostasy\\

But the Church that Jesus founded--the Orthodox--NEVER descended into apostasy. Otherwise, Christ's promise that the gates of hell would not prevail against the Church was broken.

OTOH, SDA is apostate by definition.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/29/11




exclusively. All Lee (and Bachiocchi) ARE arguing over is how long it took for the Church to descend into apostasy. ---jerry6593 on 11/29/11

i AGREE 100%
As i have often said before, even in the lifetime of the apostles apostacy had already started.

2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.

But it took some 100+ years to desend into this particular form of apostacy which is what Bachiocchi's book is all about. Bachiocchi's book does not endorse Sunday as a christian sabbath
---francis on 11/29/11


Jerry - While Apostasy is apostasy such cannot occur unless some command or law is violated. However, like physical circumcision there is NO command of the church to observe the Jewish Sabbath or the Levitical dietary laws.

Adventists have searched for years for a command for the church to observe the Jewish Sabbath but have never found one. Maybe you can become the very first to do so.

Like the ancient Galatians the Apostle Paul condemned for their Judaizing influence, the Adventist church stand in the same condemnation - children of Hagar!
---lee1538 on 11/29/11


Did the early church observe the Old Testament Sabbath?

Emphatically, YES! While the last Apostle (John) remained alive ('til ~ AD 100) ALL Christians kept the Seventh-day Sabbath exclusively. All Lee (and his pseudo-SDA pal Bachiocchi) is arguing over is how long it took for the Church (as a whole) to descend into apostasy. Who cares? Apostasy is apostasy, and yeilding to the influences of pagan neighbors has always been a problem for God's people. BUT, there have always been a faithful few from Adam to the present who have kept the true Sabbath of God. No man - either in the first century or now - has the authority to overrule the Commandment of God.
---jerry6593 on 11/29/11


Bacchiocchi p. 207 asked if the church of Rome in the 2d century was able to exert sufficient authority through her bishop to influence other churches.

He waffles in his answer - "the process of affirmation of the primacy of the Bishop and of the Church of Rome in the early Church is difficult to trace, primarily because the sources available report facts or events but do not define the jurisdictional authority exerted at the time by the Church of Rome."

Although Rome could influence some areas of the empire, it would not have been able to change long-standing customs, in the East, w/o any VISIBLE EVIDENCE OF CONTROVERSY, esp. when those customs were based on apostolic practice. I believe his theory is unsupportable.
---lee1538 on 11/28/11


First we have a local Minister who left the Seventh day Adventist church over doubts about E. G. White who did join the Roman Catholic church. Until his knowledge of church history and the Bible as he said lead him back to the truth that Protestants have stated for ages.

The Roman Catholic church replaced truth with tradition and as pointed out in the movie religulous that many of their doctrines cannot be supported by the Bible. Something even atheists recognize.
---Samuel on 11/28/11


//He does waffle a little when he addresses this issue when speaking of the Epistle to the Magnesians (p. 214).
---
Youneed to READ THE WHOLE BOOK.
----
I acquired the book some 4 years ago and do not recall everything in it. Howbeit, the POINT I was making was the Bacchiocchi believes that the majority of the church by the 2d century, no longer observed the Jewish Sabbath.

Again, in another post I pointed out that there would have much much controversy if the Sabbath was changed to Sunday but we see NONE.

There were admittedly, some splinter groups that continued to observe the Jewish Sabbath but there were either of Jewish origin, or were Judaized by false prophets that Paul condemned in Galatians.
---lee1538 on 11/28/11


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He does waffle a little when he addresses this issue when speaking of the Epistle to the Magnesians (p. 214).
---lee1538 on 11/28/11

Youneed to READ THE WHOLE BOOK

he does not "waffle!"
In the opening chapter he introduces a thesis,"Ignatius, Barnabas and Justin, whose writings constitute our major
source of information for the first half of the second century, ..which led the majority of the Christians to abandon the Sabbath and adopt Sunday .."

Then he spends the rest of the chapter tearing down that thesis

YOU NEED TO READ THE BOOK
---Francis on 11/28/11


Jerry - Maybe some day I will get around to acquiring Prophet of Destiny by Rene Noorbergen. It is interesting that one commentary found that Noorbergen speculated that Ellen's visions may have been caused by her head injury - the same conclusion of Loma Linda medical researchers.

In case you may not realize it, there are dozens of books written by those who have converted from other denominations. One of the more popular is Rome Sweet Home - our journey to Catholicism by Scott & Kimberly Hahn. And then there is Crossing the Tiber by Stephen K. Ray. I have read both these books when I did apologetic works with Roman Catholics.

Perhaps you may want to read these books and go back to the church Christ established?
LOL
---lee1538 on 11/28/11


Did the majority of Christians observe Sunday as the day of worship by the 2d century?

Apparently Bacchiocchi believed they did.

Chapter 7, p. 213 Ignatius, Barnabas and Justin, whose writings constitute our major source of information for the first half of the second century, witnessed and participated in the process of separation from Judaism which led the majority of the Christians to abandon the Sabbath and adopt Sunday as the new day of worship. Their testimonies therefore, coming from such an early period, assume a vital importance for our inquiry into the causes of the origin of Sunday observance.

He does waffle a little when he addresses this issue when speaking of the Epistle to the Magnesians (p. 214).
---lee1538 on 11/28/11


Was the majority in the Roman church Gentile or Jewish?

Bacchiocchi, p.167 The Jewish-Christians, though a minority in the Church of Rome, seem to have provoked "disputes" (Rom. 14:1) over questions such as the value of the law (2 :17), the need for circumcision (2 :25-27), salvation by obedience to the law (chs. 3, 4, 5), the need to respect special days and to abstain from unclean food (chs. 14-15). ... The abandonment of Sabbath-keeping and the adoption of Sunday could then represent a significant aspect of this process of differentiation.

If Gentile, then Romans 14 can only be interpreted that one may not observe any day as holy nor is there retrictions on types of food.
---lee1538 on 11/28/11


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Since Bacchiocchi research revealed that the Sabbath was no longer observed by the Gentile church by 135 A.D. that it is an inescapable conclusion that the Apostles & their successors did not teach it.
--lee1538 on 11/28/11
NO the burden of proof in ON YOU. YOU read it and YOU post it with page numbers

IT DOES NOT EXIST
---francis on 11/28/11


francis //So tell me what page he said that sunday keeping was THE NORM BY 135.
---
Since Bacchiocchi research revealed that the Sabbath was no longer observed by the Gentile church by 135 A.D. that it is an inescapable conclusion that the Apostles & their successors did not teach it.

Suggest you read Chapter V, Jerusalem & the Origin of Sunday, especially the footnotes.
---lee1538 on 11/28/11


Leej, you cannot win this arguement with the support of Samuele R. Bacchiocchi.
He does not support your position that worship on sunday was the result of the Jerusalem council.
---francis on 11/27/11

True, howbeit, ., he would not dare claim the Jerusalem council did not mandate the observance of the Jewish Sabbath, otherwise he would be dismissed from his employment.
--lee1538 on 11/27/11

You did NOT read the book.
You cannot win this arguement with this author he does not support you.

You said TRUE to my post. then you try to give a reason why he does not support you.

That cannot be done, You are looking rather silly right now. This is YOUR choosen author to support your clain, and he DOES NOT
---francis on 11/27/11


However, it is just too easy to see that since Sunday worship was the norm of the church by 135 A.D., there is no other logical conclusion that can be made except that the Apostles & their immediate successors did not teach tenets that were strictly Jewish.
---lee1538 on 11/27/11
You did not read the book at all. You just found that quote somewhere. If you had read the you would have not posted this.

So tell me what page he said that sunday keeping was THE NORM BY 135.
---francis on 11/27/11


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francis - yes I have read much of Bacchiocchi's book. The point is that he dares disagree with Ellen White and it is amazing that he survived the purges of the 1980's.

---lee1538 on 11/27/11

You need to read THE WHOLE BOOK, not just the partthat you think disagrees with E G WHITE. I advise you that he does not supprt any of your theries
---francis on 11/27/11


Francis ... he (Bacchiocchi) not support your point of view (i.e. the Jerusalem council did not mandate Sabbath keeping to Gentile believers), but that you have missunderstoiod his research.

True, howbeit, as a professor of theology & church history at Andrews U., he would not dare claim the Jerusalem council did not mandate the observance of the Jewish Sabbath, otherwise he would be dismissed from his employment.

As his research did show Sunday worship was the norm for the Gentile church by 135 AD it is plain to see the Jewish Sabbath was not imposed on Gentile believers. And that is the point in view here.

He did have the guts to disagree with the infallible Ellen White as to when Sunday worship started.
---lee1538 on 11/27/11


Leej, you cannot win this arguement with the support of Samuele R. Bacchiocchi.
He does not support your position that worship on sunday was the result of the Jerusalem council.

Since we are in the thankgiving holiday, i will GIVE you an opportunity to divorce yourself from Samuele Bacchiocchi. IF you do not, i will auote from him to show that not only does he not support your point of view, but that you have missunderstoiod his research.

You can THANK me latter
---francis on 11/27/11


francis - yes I have read much of Bacchiocchi's book. The point is that he dares disagree with Ellen White and it is amazing that he survived the purges of the 1980's.

You are right that he views the anti-jewish attitude as the main reason for the church to disengage its Jewish roots and Judaizing influences.

However, it is just too easy to see that since Sunday worship was the norm of the church by 135 A.D., there is no other logical conclusion that can be made except that the Apostles & their immediate successors did not teach tenets that were strictly Jewish.
---lee1538 on 11/27/11


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--lee1538 on 11/26/11
He talks about the political and social pressure that caused gentile converts to go to sunday. he talks about the anti judism sentiments which caused the edict of Claudius Acts 18:2 (because that Claudius had commanded all Jews to depart from Rome:) and the hatred that started there, the pressure that gentile converts were under to seperate themselves from the jews. He also agrees that this sunday worship was made official in 321 by constantine. He NEVER says that sunday worship was biblical. he clearly stated that it was because of anti judism, political and social pressure that gentiles in roman church from where jews were expelled were forced and cooerced into worshiping the sun God

you missed the point
---francis on 11/27/11


Francis: Lee the deceiver seems to have come into some money. A few years ago, I wrote to him that he should get the book "Ellen G. White - Prophet of Destiny" by Rene Noorbergen. He said that he couldn't afford it. Seems that he can now afford works by Vatican trained Samuele Bacchiocchi.

(Noorbergen was a skeptic, and a professional debunker of mystics. His research caused him to convert to Adventism.)

Keep up the good work!
---jerry6593 on 11/27/11


Francis //GREAT BOOK ALL christians should read this
---
Your friend Jerry accuses him (Bacchiocchi)of being a Jesuit implant in part because he disagrees with your "infallible" prophetess who claimed Sunday worship started with the Roman Catholic pope or with Emporer Constantine sometime during the 4th century.

Bacchiocchi research reveals that sunday worship was the norm of the Gentile church as early as 135 A.D. and we can accept the fact that this was because the Apostles and their immediate successors did not teach obserance of the Jewish Sabbath.

Glad you like the book, I read it also.
---lee1538 on 11/26/11


LEEJ has taken two position,
1: he stated that it was at the jerusalem council that the apostles made it clear that converted gentile no longer had to keep the sabbath
2: He asks that all read the works of Samuele R. Bacchiocchi who stated that the change from sabbath to sunday started in the 2nd century

IF it started in the 2nd century, that it was not mandated in the jerusalem council
Leej is wrong AGAIN

May i also suggest in addition to Samuele R. Bacchiocchi read Charles E. Bradford, Sabbath Roots: The African Connection, and " the image of God in this generation"
---francis on 11/26/11


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Ya know it seems the more people read extra-biblical literature on other men's opinions the further they get from the truth of scripture.
---CraigA on 11/26/11


Everyone, PLEASE read the book SABBATH TO SUNDAY by Dr. Samuele Bacchiocchi, it is available in PDF online, also see the video online by Dr. Samuele Bacchiocchi, It is an eye opening video.

His book and video will convince you that every true believer in christ MUST keep the sabbath

He exposes clearly the anti judism, and pro SUN-wrship roots that led to sunday worship. Je exposed the political and social power that created sunday worship.

He gives great insite into what happens after the Roman
expelled the Jews from Rome
which is spoken of in the books of Acts

GREAT BOOK ALL christians should read this
---francis on 11/26/11


The first christians were all jews and religious proselytes, and they all kept the sabbath. That is in the bible. What some want you to believe is that as more gentiles came to accept Jesus that they realized that they were not keeping the real christain sabbath and moved to sunday.

If ever the church had made sunday a holy day, there would have been a confrence like the jerusalem confrence to deal with that like they did for circumcision

They talk about " church fathers" But none of the apostles are called church fathers.
they may as well call them " apostate church fathers."
---francis on 11/26/11


Jerry //All you are arguing, Lee, is how long it took the Church to descend into man-made, pagan practices.

yes, I can see you reject the decisions made at the Jerusalem council on whether Gentile believers had to become circumcised and observe the laws of Moses. Acts 15.

What you call man-made pagan practices are actually the teachings of the Apostles and their immediate successors who did not impose Jewish laws onto Gentile believers. All the early church writers confirm that.

If they had done so, it would have greatly hindered the gospel or forced the church into becoming a Judaizing system.

We are so sorry you are unable to provide any convicting arguments that Christians need become Jews in order to be genuine.
---lee1538 on 11/26/11


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//Did the early church observe the Old Testament Sabbath? Yes and did so till at least as late as the 5th century according to two 5th century historians who had no theological axe to grind.\\
---
The thing that is truly laudable is the fact that scholars including those that are SDA have found from their research that Sunday worship was the norm for the Gentile church as early as 135 A.D. (see From Sabbath to Sunday by Dr. Samuele Bacchiocchi, Andrews U church historian)

Of course, Jerry will claim those scholars have to be Romanist implants much the same as Protestants are Roman Catholics, Democrats are really Republicans, American Indians are really Asians, 2+3 = 7, etc.
---lee1538 on 11/26/11


Did the early church observe the Old Testament Sabbath?

Have you ever read the New Testament? They (Jesus and ALL the disciples) observed the seventh-day Sabbath exclusively. They also called the entire Old Testament "inspired scripture" and quoted from it extensively. All you are arguing, Lee, is how long it took the Church to descend into man-made, pagan practices. What difference does it make? Error is error - no matter how long it takes to get there.
---jerry6593 on 11/26/11


\\>Did the early church observe the Old Testament Sabbath?

Yes and did so till at least as late as the 5th century according to two 5th century historians who had no theological axe to grind.\\

Except for all the Christian writers after Justin Martyr (fl 100), who talked about Christians worshipping in the wee hours of Sunday for the Eucharist, writing for CENTURIES before the fifth century.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/25/11


Genesis 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
What the law given to Abraham?
---lee1538 on 11/25/11

The point here is that while it is not the role of the book of Genesis to tell us the law of God, all the laws of God are in the book of Genesis,a nd claearly known by Abraham.
Genesis 4:7 if thou doest not well, SIN lieth at the door
Genesis 18:20 because their SIN is very grievous,
Genesis 39:9 how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God?

To have SIN you MUST have LAW

Romans 5:13 sin is not imputed when there is no law.
---francis on 11/25/11


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Lee the Sabbath school quarterly that we SDA are studying is on Galations. You should read it online.

The Early Chruch was all Jewish and gentiles GOD fearers who went to churh on Sabbath. This was during the time of the Apostles.

At the end of the first Century the church was mostly Gentile converts. So how early in church history are you talking about?
---Samuel on 11/25/11


>Did the early church observe the Old Testament Sabbath?

Yes and did so till at least as late as the 5th century according to two 5th century historians who had no theological axe to grind.
---djconklin on 11/25/11


//Genesis 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

What the law given to Abraham?

Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Ga 3:17 This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward (after Abraham), does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void.

Poor souls, they also add to the scripture to promote their erroneous Judaizing beliefs. In this case when they see the word commandments, they add the word ten in front of it.

Pr 30:6 Do not add to his words,lest he rebuke you and you be found a liar.

Do you think you are a liar since you add to His word?
---lee1538 on 11/25/11


the 'laws of the Sabbath' came after.
---Peter on 11/24/11

I see what you are saying. I do not agree. I am 100% sure that God and Adam had many conversation, and the bible does not record them. I am 100% sure that since the sabbath would have influenced Adam, that God gave him instruction

How am I so sure?
Genesis tells us this about Abraham: Genesis 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

yet we have no list of laws and statutes spelled out for us in genesis.

Hebrews 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

No mention of that City in genesis
---francis on 11/25/11


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No. The abolished old testament is be superceded by the currently inforce New Testament.
---Eloy on 11/25/11


francis //Jesus is NOT ONE OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS
---francis
Of course you would have to agree that if Jesus were the 10 commandments, then He would also have to be of the ministry of death & condemnation (2 Cor. 3:7,9)

You can continue to agrue against the truth, however, like the Apostle Paul will be found to be kicking against the pricks.Acts 9:5, 26:14

Or maybe you are just trying to enforce your own desired view that Christians need to observe the Jewish Sabbath since there is nothing either in Scripture nor in church history that will help you.



---lee1538 on 11/24/11


Francis: 'Sabbath came before sin.'

Absolutely true. But the 'laws of the Sabbath' came after. Thus, though God rested, we are not told what that should mean we should do. We can 'rest' in some way, but we are not told how.
---Peter on 11/24/11


//Well, Jesus is the chief cornerstone of the church. Did Jesus observe the Sabbath?

Yes, no one has a problem believing that as Jesus was a Jew under the Old covenant dispensation.

But those that believe in keeping the old testament Sabbath, totally disregard the following verse.

Gal. 3:4-5 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.

Of course, Sabbath keepers will say the focus here is the Mosaic law, but then they go ahead of pitch much that is of the Mosaic law.
---lee1538 on 11/24/11


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---Bill_willa6989 on 11/24/11
Do you think that Jesus sinned by healing a man on the sabbath?
Jesus was subject to the law.
Galatians 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,


--Sandy on 11/24/11
2 point: 1: Shadows were introduced AFTER ADAM SINNED to show the plan of redeemption. Sabbath came before sin.
2: If sabbath was a shadow how to you explain sabbath in the new earth, what shadow is that?
Isaiah 66:22 For as the new.. earth, it shall come to pass, that..from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
---francis on 11/24/11


Well, Jesus is the chief cornerstone of the church. Did Jesus observe the Sabbath? Jesus told that healed man to pick up his bed and walk > John 5:5-18. The Jews understood clearly that that was working on the Sabbath, and they tried to kill Jesus because of this, since the Law of Moses commands that anyone working on the Sabbath must be executed > Exodus 31:14-15. Keeping the Sabbath includes keeping the death penalty enforcement of the Sabbath, I dare consider. Jews do not keep their own Law, then, do they? Paul says no they do not > Galatians 6:13.
---Bill_willa6989 on 11/24/11


Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me, for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls

Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.


The pharisees tried to judge Jesus for doing things on the Sabbath as well. Do you not place yourself in their shoes when you try to judge his followers for doing the exact same things?

If your boss tells you that you must work on a Sunday , then you are merely doing what is required by the powers that be, which are ordained of God (no matter how small they are). You are meeting the needs of your family. That IS doing good.
---JackB on 11/24/11


Francis, the OT is Christ concealed, while the NT is Christ revealed. The entire Bible is really all about JESUS whether it is spelled out for you or not. Col. 2:16-17 states to not judge re: sabbaths because they were merely shadows of things to come, but we now have Christ who is the substance. Does Heb. 4:11 mean a day or resting in Christ? Focus on Christ!
---Sandy on 11/24/11


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Acts 15. very clear is that Gentiles only had four things to obey in relation to the law. ---Rod4Him on 11/24/11
If the only laws which gentile converts should follow are: Acts 15:20 abstain from pollutions of idols, and [from] fornication, and [from] things strangled, and [from] blood.

Does this mean that gentiles could steal, kill, covet, dishonur parents, lie, and take God's name in vain?

who is your rock? Is it a day or jesus tell me? ---Sandy on 11/23/11

Jesus is our rock, He is our passover lamb, he is our bread of life, he is our high priest. No scriptures ever said Jesus is our 7th day/ sabbath

Jesus is NOT ONE OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS
---francis on 11/24/11


Sanday//Are this MY DEMANDS or GOD COMMANDMENTS:
----
Yes, Sandy you should observe all of the 10 commandments for that was given to you when you (or your ancestry) came out of the land of Egypt.

Exodus 20:2 I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.

Francis thinks that once a person becomes a Christian one is obligated to all the laws of Judaism.

He cannot understnad that the Bible makes a distinction between Jews & Gentile believers.

He also rejects the decisions made at the Jerusalem council Acts 15 thinking that believers are still under the law of Moses and should be circumcised.
---lee1538 on 11/24/11


All I ask is that you please don't put your religious demands on others in order to accept them. ---Sandy on 11/23/11

Are this MY DEMANDS or GOD COMMANDMENTS:

Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make any graven image, to bow down ro them:
Exodus 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain,
Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exodus 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother:
Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.
Exodus 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Exodus 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.
Exodus 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness
Exodus 20:17 Thou shalt not covet
---francis on 11/24/11


---Sandy on 11/23/11
I read that post, not one text that says Jesus is the sabbath.
In Eden God created the sabbath BEFORE Adam sinned, Adam had BOTH Jesus and the sabbath So jesus is not the sabbath

In the new earth we will have BOTH jesus and the sabbath, so Jesus is NOT the sabbath.

Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth,.. it shall come to pass, that from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Jesus is LORD of the sabbath he is not THE SABBATH. The sabbath is the 7th day of the week created by Jesus and is not Jesus

Mark 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

Was Jesus made for man?
---francis on 11/24/11


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//Your answer tells me that all christians jew and non-jew kept the sabbath in the early church,//

However, these were Gentile converts to Judaism who became follows of Jesus, not Gentiles believing directly to Christ. There was a transition going, thus the question answered in Acts 15. What very clear is that Gentiles only had four things to obey in relation to the law. What Jewish believers are supposed to do is questionable.

Sandy, thanks for your contributions.
---Rod4Him on 11/24/11


Francis, you have no true concept of what the Sabbath is. The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. Worship any day you like. I have no argument with you there. But come to more of an understanding and maturity in the Word of God. The Sabbath was instituted as a day of rest. Who is our rest? Who is our peace? Who is our Rock? Is it a day or is it Jesus? You tell me? All I ask is that you please don't put your religious demands on others in order to accept them. Whether you like it or not, God is pleased with Christians because of Christ and His sacrifice and not because of anything we have done. His love is not earned by keeping the Sabbath. It is a gift.
---Sandy on 11/23/11


It is man that decided what day church "should" be held, but God decided long ago that it would be everyday. In the New Covenant, every day is the sabbath in Christ because He is the Sabbath. .
---sandy on 11/23/11

Even If you have one year you would have no scripture to back this jesus is the sabbath statement.

and God decided on worship on the sabbath not man:
Leviticus 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day [is] the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation

Ezekiel 46:3 Likewise the people of the land shall worship at the door of this gate before the LORD in the sabbaths

STOP saying what you think, and say what the BIBLE SAYS
---francis on 11/23/11


Plus, wherever we find believers worshipping and praising God, we are having church. Church is not a program or function, it is where two or more are gathered in Jesus' Name (Matthew 18:20) He is in the midst of them. Wherever Jesus is, I would call that church. Also, in the early church, they met in houses all over the place every day of the week. Read Acts 2:46-47. It is man that decided what day church "should" be held, but God decided long ago that it would be everyday. In the New Covenant, every day is the sabbath in Christ because He is the Sabbath. Arguing over Saturday or Sunday is just not so important as resting in Christ.
---sandy on 11/23/11


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He had shaved his head in accordance with the law which required him to do that because he had been with the Gentiles and was considered unclean by the Jews. A shaved head was a sign of purification (but he was already pure because of the Blood of Jesus Christ). Paul knew better than anyone about being under Grace and not the law. Paul only did that because of the beliefs of the Jews, not because he himself was subject to it. He was trying to reach all men where they were at for the sake of having an open door to teach them the Gospel. It had nothing to do with Sabbath laws or traditions.
---Sandy on 11/23/11


---lee1538 on 11/22/11

You missed the quetsion.
There was already a christian community made up of hebrews and converted gentiles.
So why did they have to wait NEXT SABBATH, why were these christians not meeting next day?

Your answer tells me that all christians jew and non-jew kept the sabbath in the early church,
---francis on 11/23/11


Francis //If the early church met every Sunday why would these Gentiles have to wait until NEXT SABBATH to hear the word of God when there was already a Christian community in their city?
---
The Apostles went to the synagogues to present the gospel message from Scripture that Jesus was the Promised Messiah.

However, as the church grew, Jews became hostile to Christianity so were no longer welcome in the synagogues.

We can see this conflict with Jews in Acts 18 -

(18:6) Paul was occupied with the word, testifying to the Jews that the Christ was Jesus. They opposed and reviled him, he shook out his garments and said to them, Your blood be on your own heads! I am innocent. From now on I will go to the Gentiles.
---lee1538 on 11/22/11


For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues EVERY SABBATH DAY. Acts 15:21

Acts 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

The word of God was preached EVERY SABBATH (maybe sometimes on other days since there is no law against that) BUT EVERY SABBATH the word of God was preached
And If the early church met every sunday why on earth would these Gentiles have to wait until NEXT SABBATH to hear the word of God when there was already a christian community in their city?
---francis on 11/22/11


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the church observe the OT sabbath

so which is the sabbath

Saturday or Sunday

sabbath is SATURDAY not sunday

and when the bible say REMEMBER it is NOT a law but reminder. just like remembering somebody's birthday.
---mike on 11/22/11


Theoufovoumenos, plural theoufovoumenoi.

This is the Greek word (which is used ONLY in a masculine form, as we shall see) translated as "you who fear God" in Acts.

These were Gentile men who worshipped the God of Israel, frequented synagogues, and privately observed a greater or fewer number of Jewish rituals....

BUT

They had not become full fledged converts to Judaism by being circumcised.

You can probably understand why.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/21/11


Did the early church observe the Old Testament Sabbath?

Early believers were Jews who were already meeting--"observing"--the Shabbat. As Gentiles became believers, they seemed to drift away from the Sabbath. The Gentiles in general never did observe the "Law," that is why Acts 15 and the Jerusalem council took place, because it was unclear what the Gentiles were supposed to do. The Sabbath probably wasn't even thought of as an issue at the council, of course they would meet on the Sabbath. Paul in Acts appears to continue to observe Passover, unleaven bread and Pentecost, but he was a Jew.
---Rod4Him on 11/21/11


Did the early church observe the Old Testament Sabbath?
---lee1538 on 11/18/11
Not only did the early church (YESTERDAY including OT) observe it, the church TODAY does, and the church FOR EVER will observe it also.


Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth,.. it shall come to pass, that from...one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.


Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines
---francis on 11/21/11


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YES!! For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues EVERY SABBATH DAY. Acts 15:21

Acts 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

The word of God was preached EVERY SABBATH (maybe sometimes on other days since there is no law against that) BUT EVERY SABBATH the word of God was preached
And If the early church met every sunday why on earth would these Gentiles have to wait until NEXT SABBATH to hear the word of God when there was already a christian community in their city?
---francis on 11/21/11


Granted that the foods of the Biblical Times were not processed, refined and inocculated with synthetics the way the food of today is. So, all foods, indeed, could've been acceptable.
---Gordon on 11/21/11


Mark 7:18-19 "Are you Adventists so dull?" he asked. "Dont you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him unclean? For it doesnt go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean".)

Maybe if Ellen White lived during the time of Christ, she could have straighten Him out on what foods He may eat.
---lee1538 on 11/19/11


The early JEWISH Christian church continued in the Mosaic tradition, observed all the tenets of Judaism including the Sabbath, circumcision & dietary laws.

Acts 2:46-47 Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favour of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.

However the church lost it Judaism when the leadership of the church passed on to the Gentiles, the Sabbath as well as other strictly Jewish laws, were no longer observed. That is clearly shown in the writings of the early church.
---lee1538 on 11/18/11


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your question should be did the disciples in ACTS & beyond observe the Sabbath?
---mike on 11/18/11


yes . however they met alot during the week as well for talks,teachings etc
---candice on 11/18/11


It depends on two things:

1. What you mean by "observe the Sabbath". The Sabbath observance did NOT command worship, but merely abstinence from labor, even for employes, slaves, and farm animals of Jews. However, the enforced leisure was filled by men (not always women) attending services in the Synagogue that were longer than on other days.

2. What you mean by "early Church". The Jewish Christians and "theofovoumenoi" continued to attend Synagogues until they were finally expelled from them all by 125 AD, but ALL Christians would gather in the wee hours of Sunday to celebrate the Eucharist, and then go about their usual business.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/18/11


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