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Purpose Of Food Laws

What purpose did God have in commanding the food laws found in Leviticus 11?

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 ---lee1538 on 11/20/11
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//You are dull.the same law says we arenot to murder, and that we should not take God's name in vain. Does that apply only to jews?

Not at all since such laws are common to every society and we find all but the Sabbath commanded in the New Covenant.

Sorry but you are determined to IGNORE the previous verses addressed ONLY to the Nation of Israel.

You apparently think Moses became the spokeperson for His church, but you have to do that in order to promote laws not applicable to Christians.

Perhaps your eyes need the salve spoken of in Revelation 3:18

I counsel you to buy from me ... salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see.
---lee1538 on 11/30/11


You are determined to ignore the previous verse-
Exodus 20:2 I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.
---lee1538 on 11/30/11

You are dull.
the same law says that we arenot to murder, and that we should not take God's name in vain. Does that apply only to jews.

But to answer your question directly:
Exodus 12:37 And the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot [that were] men, beside children.
Exodus 12:38 And a MIXED MULTITURE went up also with them, and flocks, and herds, [even] very much cattle.

MIXED MULTITUDE, Jews and NONE JEWS
---francis on 11/30/11


Francis //SABBATH: Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

You are determined to ignore the previous verse-

Exodus 20:2 I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.

Were Gentiles believers slaves in Egypt?

Acts 15 made it abundantly clear that Gentile believers did not have to become Jews in order to be genuine Christians. In case you did not realize it, circumcision is the rite of entry into the Jewish religion.

Are you like Francis the Mule that you need a 2x4 across your thick skull to get you to understand?
---lee1538 on 11/30/11


Since you have to subscribe to the SDA 28 fundamental doctrines, you then HAVE TO BELIEVE what Ellen White stated ----lee1538 on 11/30/11

LOL LOL Youare not that dull are you

ARe you per change a CALVINIST? I will let you figure that one out on your own
---francis on 11/30/11


\\INVESTIGATIVE JUDGMENT: Daniel 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened\\

This is the LAST JUDGEMENT, not something that started in 1844.

**"Meat should not be placed before our children. Its influence is to excite and strengthen the lower passions, and has a tendency to deaden the moral powers..".(p. 217, Healthful Living, by Ellen White)**

1 Timothy 4:3
Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
---Cluny on 11/30/11




---lee1538 on 11/30/11
You and cluny just talk alot and say nothing. What unique doctrines?

SABBATH: Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

DIETARY LAWS:Leviticus 11:3 Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is clovenfooted, [and] cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat.

INVESTIGATIVE JUDGMENT: Daniel 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened
---francis on 11/30/11


francis //Why is it that when you see that you beliefs do not line up with God's word that A woman who is dead and cannot defend herself is you target?
---
Since you have to subscribe to the SDA 28 fundamental doctrines, you then HAVE TO BELIEVE what Ellen White stated -

"Meat should not be placed before our children. Its influence is to excite and strengthen the lower passions, and has a tendency to deaden the moral powers..".(p. 217, Healthful Living, by Ellen White)

Yes I have the book as a refernece but do not feel a need to read the entire thing.

And from Nickels it is easy to see that much of what she wrote regarding health was borrowed from other contemporary writers.
---lee1538 on 11/30/11


No one is claiming "salvation by bashing EGW. But SDAs believer her to be a prophetess.

EGW has destroyed herself.

SDA is a tissue of contradictions that stands or falls on the ravings of EGW.

And great is its fall.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/30/11


Samuel //So the Seventh day Adventist live 7 to 10 years longer then those who do not think GOD knew was he was trying to teach us about health.

Mormons also live longer than most as they do not smoke, drink, or have other bad habits. However, that does not mean their theology is plausible.

This is one of the very few areas that Adventists can be commended on, however, as we see on this forum, they really have lots of problems in defending their unique belief either from scripture or from early church history.
---lee1538 on 11/30/11


Anyone familiar with Ellen White's writings would immediately see that much of what she taught regarding food is now part of Adventists teachings.

Poor Jesus I guess He was wrong when He stated that whoever goes into the stomach does not make one unclean but what comes from the heart. (Mt. 15:17f, Mk. 7:18f).Ellen White could have straighten Him out on these issues if she had lived during His earthly ministry.

Apparently Adventists look to Ellen White much that same way Roman Catholics look to the Virgin Mary. They really need to look to Jesus and His word for guidance.
---lee1538 on 11/30/11




As to the rantings of olde Ellen White I was the most amused when she stated that certain foods (mainly meats) one ate makes one immoral.
---lee1538 on 11/29/11


What does E G white have to do with the laws commanded by God in leviticus 11.

Why is it that when you see that you beliefs do not line up with God's word that A woman who is dead and cannot defend herself is you target?
---francis on 11/30/11


Samuel: "I see many here have turned from actually discussiong the issue to trying to destroy Ellen White."

So true! It is the same group of characters who subscribe to the doctrine of "salvation-by-SDA-bashing" that, when backed into a corner, attempt to derail the train of the discussion by regurgitating the slop they find on their favorite "hate SDAs" website. I take it as a sign that they know their arguments are too weak to prove biblically.
---jerry6593 on 11/30/11


I see many here have turned from actually discussiong the issue to trying to destroy Ellen White.

GOD gave the laws to show us how to live healthier. In fact one of the proofs of the Bible that helped me to beieve it was true was the advanced and important health regulations given by GOD to Israel. But many today choose to ignore health laws.

So the Seventh day Adventist live 7 to 10 years longer then those who do not think GOD knew was he was trying to teach us about health.

The fruit of the doctrine is a longer healthier life.
---Samuel on 11/29/11


As to the rantings of olde Ellen White I was the most amused when she stated that certain foods (mainly meats) one ate makes one immoral.

Let's face the facts, the olde bat was crazy and what can we say of those who totally believed in her.

Thankfully there are a few Christians within Adventism that have scrapped her writings in favor of the Bible.
---lee1538 on 11/29/11


Here is another statement by EGW:

"Yet, now when I send you a testimony of warning and reproof, many of you declare it to be merely the opinion of Sister White. You thereby insulted the Spirit of God." Testimonies 5, p. 64.

Is she not claiming to be the mouthpiece of the Holy Spirit here?

FWIW, Pope Pius IX was flourishing about the same time making similar claims about himself. At least Vatican I LIMITED the conditions in which the Pope was infallible. EGW allowed no limits for herself.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/29/11


\\know you think you did, but the truth is you did no such thing.
--Cluny on 11/28/11
What do you think the venerable day of THE SUN ws to the romans?
---francis on 11/28/11\\

But Christians were already worshipping in the wee hours of Sunday for the Eucharist over two centuries BEFORE Constantine, as Justin Martyr demonstrates.

You're not so ignorant and silly as to think that Sunday worship was something thought up by Constantine, are you?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/28/11


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\\Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, [that] I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
---francis on 11/28/11\\

But EGW did NOT have God's spirit. You don't actually think she did, do you?

She was a false prophetess.

Besides, Joel's prophecy was fulfilled at Pentecost in 29 AD or thereabouts. It was not something waiting to be fulfilled until the time of EGW, and it's spiritual delusion to say this.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/28/11


Bacchiocchi's theory is that sun-worship,(Mithraism), influenced Rome to select Sun-day as the new day of worship (p. 236f). Again, there is no evidence for such a factor (Tertullian~160 AD specifically rules it out in his Apology 16), it is historically unlikely. The selection of Sunday can be explained without resorting to pagan precedents. Moreover, the early church resisted pagan practices.

Bacchiocchi may have abandoned this aspect of this theory, in his chapter in Strand's book, he writes, "The choice of the day of the Sun was not motivated by the desire to venerate the Sun-god on his day, but rather by the fact that such a day provided a fitting symbology" (p. 141).
---lee1538 on 11/28/11


---Cluny on 11/28/11

Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, [that] I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
---francis on 11/28/11


EGW: "In ancient times God spoke to men by the mouth of prophets and apostles. In these days He speaks to them by the testimonies of His Spirit. There was never a time when God instructed His people more earnestly than He instructs them now concerning His will and the course that He would have them pursue."-- Testimonies, vol. 5, p. 661.

In other words, God instructs more earnestly in the ravings of EGW than in the pages of the Bible itself.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/28/11


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know you think you did, but the truth is you did no such thing.
--Cluny on 11/28/11
What do you think the venerable day of THE SUN ws to the romans?
---francis on 11/28/11


\\Give thee names of these church leaders straight out of the record, francis.
---Cluny on 11/25/11
Maybe next time. You said that Rome did not recgnize any special say as the jews did the sabbath, I gave you an exact quote\\

I know you think you did, but the truth is you did no such thing.

It was an SDA minister named Canfield who discovered that the ancient Romans did NOT organize their calendar by weeks, as you want to think.

And you have NOT name of given ONE Church leader who wanted this done or who did not teach justification by faith.

Is it because you cannot do so?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/28/11


---Rob on 11/27/11
Galatians 2:19-21
Rob when you honour your father and your mother, and worship one God are you fustrating the grace of God?
Read verses 16-18 while we seek to be justified by christ we cannot be found living in sin / breaking the ten commandments

2 Timothy 4:1-5: you are the one not following sound doctrine, you seem to have gone from a church that teaches ten commandments to one that teaches 9/10 and you call that righteous living?

2 Peter 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

You are the one who has turned away from the holy commandments
---francis on 11/27/11


neither Sabbath keeping, the dietary laws, or your investigative Judgment can be support by the Bible alone.
---lee1538 on 11/27/11
SABBATH: Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

DIETARY LAWS:Leviticus 11:3 Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is clovenfooted, [and] cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat.

INVESTIGATIVE JUDGMENT: Daniel 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened
---francis on 11/27/11


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\\You now have to post ONE of her prophecies and proof that she was wrong
---francis on 11/27/1\\

I've already posted one of EGW's most notorious false prophecies, and come as close as I can giving a link for it.

You can also search for "FOOD FOR WORMS" on your favorite search engine.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/27/11


Francis and Jerry, you continue to avoid what is clearly written in the following scriptures, like they are a plague, Galatians 2:19-21, 2 Timothy 4:1-5, and 2 Peter Chapter Two.

Is this because these scriptures are in direct opposition of what SDA's and Ellen G. White teach and believe?

This is another chance for you to respond to what these scriptures mean.
---Rob on 11/27/11


//##18. The Gift of Prophecy:
A prophect is a prophet is a prophet. Be they cannonized or not.

And we can all say in view of Ellen White, that a false prophet is a false prophet whether cannonized or not.

The point of #18 is the FACT that Adventism really needs extra biblical revelation to support their beliefs. Let's face the facts, neither Sabbath keeping, the dietary laws, or your investigative Judgment can be support by the Bible alone.

As for false prophecies, we can see much of what Ellen prophesied on the web.
---lee1538 on 11/27/11


\\Like Rob and Lee, shouting loud, but unfounded, accusations against EGW does not prove your point, it just makes you look small.\\

This false prophecy of EGW that I quoted (the year, btw, was 1856, to be correct) can be confirmed on line.

Look for "The White Estate". Alas, the rules of these blogs do not allow me to be more specific.

Your denying that your false prophetess EGW said this will avail you nothing and makes you look worse than small.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/27/11


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#18. The Gift of Prophecy:
---lee1538 on 11/26/11

Now this is the part i like:
You now have to post ONE of her prophecies and proof that she was wrong
---francis on 11/27/11


Cluny: "So, jerry, how many SDAs are 152 years old today?"

Like Rob and Lee, shouting loud, but unfounded, accusations against EGW does not prove your point, it just makes you look small.

Jesus said to the high priest:

Mat 26:64 ... Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Do you believe that there are 2000 year old Jews today? Do you believe that Jesus was a false prophet?

If you would spend more time learning the Bible and less time bashing other denominations, you would fare better in the judgement.
---jerry6593 on 11/27/11


Lee: "Olde Ellen ...Christ would come again in October 1844. And then she predicted... blah, blah, blah.

You have been told many times before that EGW was only a girl of 17, and a Methodist, in 1844. She was not yet a prophetess, and made no predictions.

Doesn't it bother you to tell lies publically just to feed your hatred of SDAs. Is it just because you have a SDA family member? How can you possibly think that tearing another denomination down will raise you up? Why don't you religious bigots stick to the blog subject and stop resorting to SDA bashing whenever you get stuck?
---jerry6593 on 11/27/11


##18. The Gift of Prophecy:
---lee1538 on 11/26/11

A prophect is a prophet is a prophet. Be they cannonized or not.
isaiah and jerimiah are no greater prophects than Elijah and Elisha who have no books named for them.

Daniel and eziekel are no greater prophects than Luke 2:36 Anna, a prophetess and Exodus 15:20 Miriam the prophetess, Judges 4:4 Deborah, a prophetess, Acts 21:10 a prophet, named Agabus

Sorry leej cannonization is NOT the mark of a prophet.

Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
---francis on 11/26/11


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//Why not look at the SDA manual, 27 fundermental beliefs ...

The biggest laugh is -

#18. The Gift of Prophecy:
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested.

Bumping the Bible against the "inspired" writings of Ellen does present a problem with unique Adventist doctrines as the Bible to them is not sufficient.
---lee1538 on 11/26/11


For those who want to know the truth about SDA's and Ellen G. White, I strongly suggest the google Ellen G. White FALSE PROPHESIES, and FACTS ABOUT SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST THEY WON'T TELL YOU.
---Rob on 11/26/11

Why not look at the SDA manual, 27 fundermental beliefs or the Ellen G white estate? All of these are available online. read directly from each of them what SDA truely beleive.

GO DIRECTLY TO THE SOURCE

27 fundermental beiefs ( Now 28 but I have not found 28 online) give an exact writing of what SDA believe.

The SDA manual has the 28 doctrine in brief format

Ellen G white estate has her writings

For wanting to know what SDA on prophecy see Uriah smith, or Arthur maxwell
---francis on 11/26/11


For those who want to know the truth about SDA's and Ellen G. White, I strongly suggest the google Ellen G. White FALSE PROPHESIES, and FACTS ABOUT SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST THEY WON'T TELL YOU.
---Rob on 11/26/11


Give thee names of these church leaders straight out of the record, francis.
---Cluny on 11/25/11
Maybe next time. You said that Rome did not recgnize any special say as the jews did the sabbath, I gave you an exact quote. Lets talk about that first then we can move to your next quastion.
You first have to admist that you were wrong, and that Rome did recoginze the venerable day fo the sun as a special day, then we can move on to your next quastion PS I have the answer
---francis on 11/26/11


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Jerry //EGW NEVER predicted a date for Christ's return.

Now you really do not believe the facts on this issue, do you?

Olde Ellen totally believed William Millers prediction that Christ would come again in October 1844. And then she predicted that those who did not believe Miller's prediction would not have any further opportunity to be saved. Ever heard of the SDA Shut Door belief?

Jerry, people really laugh at you and Francis because you ignore the facts of history on these issues. And worst yet you guys really have to do a clown's dance with scripture to prove that the Sabbath was mandated to His church.
---lee1538 on 11/26/11


In an Adventist Bible Conference in the 1850's, EGW wrote, "My angel told me that of those present, some would be food for worms, others would be subject of the seven last plagues, and still others would be alive to be translated when Jesus returns."

No, EGW did not predict a date, but assuming that there were babies being born there at the very moment she was writing, the youngest would now be in their 150's while we're waiting for Jesus.

So, jerry, how many SDAs are 152 years old today?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/26/11


Rob: Shouting loud, but unfounded, accusations against EGW does not prove your point, it just makes you look small. Give us your proof!

SDAs neither reject nor avoid ANY scripture, but you do (e.g., the Ten Commandments).

EGW NEVER predicted a date for Christ's return. She said that some then living would be resurrected just before His return - just like Jesus did to the high priest! Do you also consider Jesus to be a false prophet?

Mat 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

I've never heard a SDA say that "no Christian library ...", although it sounds true.
---jerry6593 on 11/26/11


\\If they knew the bible so well what took them so long to come to this most fundermental doctrine of salvation?
---francis on 11/25/11
\\

francis, from your encyclopedic knowledge of Church history and patristics, can y ou tell us which of the Church Fathers ever denied that the just shall live by faith, or who was the first one to do so?

I shall await with interest.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/25/11


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\\The year is 321 A.D. Constantine, yielding to the suggestion of church leaders passes the first Sunday law! Here it is, straight out of the record: \\

Give thee names of these church leaders straight out of the record, francis.

Bt you can't.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/25/11


One of the reason we know that all the food laws stll apply, is that some are mentioned in the NT.Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from things strangled, and from blood.

These laws are were given by God to protect us from disease, such as heart attaccks and strokes which are prevelant among swine, eaters, and the vast variety of blood borne diseases.

This is part of what it means to worship God and make God Lord of your life. It means sourendering all to God and admiting that God who made your body, knws what is best for your body
---francis on 11/25/11


The early church writers knew the Bible very well,---lee1538 on 11/25/11

REALLY you are going to stick with that!
History tells us that the protestant reformation took place in the 1500's by a catholic Monk named Luther.
One of his key doctrinal reformations: Just shall live by faith.
Habbakuk 2:4 the just shall live by his faith.
Romans 1:17 The just shall live by faith.
Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith,
2 Corinthians 1:24 for by faith ye stand
Galatians 3:24 we might be justified by faith.
Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith:

Look how many times this is in the bible, If they knew the bible so well what took them so long to come to this most fundermental doctrine of salvation?
---francis on 11/25/11


Lee the writing is done by the victors. So much of the Early church history is lost.

The problem with your point is that the writers of the Bible never record a change. They do not even argue about a change like they argued about no more circuscion.

In records that do remain Sabbath is observed by some and both days by many.

To stand for the Ten Commandments is to follow John Wesley, Martin Luther and Calvin. All taught the Ten Commandments were still in effect.
---Samuel on 11/25/11


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The purpose of the food laws was to help people live longer and healther. For the laws did not just involve food to eat. But to wash your hands take baths dispose of waste properly.

To say the food laws which Noah knew about do not apply is like saying that you should not wash your hands before you eat.
---Samuel on 11/25/11


First, the pagan Roman method of marking dates was the MONTH, not the week. The Pagans had NO weekly day corresponding to the Jewish Sabbath.
---Cluny on 11/25/11
The year is 321 A.D. Constantine, yielding to the suggestion of church leaders passes the first Sunday law! Here it is, straight out of the record:

"Let all the judges and town people, and the occupation of all trades rest on the venerable day of the sun" Edict of March 7, 321 A.D. Corpus Juris Civilis Cod., lib. 3, tit. 12, Lex. 3.

In addition to that The pagan worship of " the queeen of heaven" came the 1st sunday after the first fool moon in spiring. This is still the way easter is determined.
---francis on 11/25/11


Jerry, the more you write, the more you prove you are a liar, you are deceived, and Ellen G. Whilte was a FALSE PROPHET.

I guess you avoid wat is written 2 Peter Chapter Two. If Ellen G White was not a FALSE PROPHET, how do you explain her saying Christ would return in the 1800's and those who were at her conference would still be alive at Christ's return.

Why do SDA'S clearly reject what is written in Galatians 2:19-21, and 1 Timothy 4:1-4?

Why do SDA's say no Christian library is complete unless they include the writings of Ellen G. White?
---Rob on 11/25/11


francis//Are you that dull?How could they protest when they did not know the bible?

You have really been deceived.

The early church writers knew the Bible very well, we can see that in their commentaries.

If the Sabbath and other Jewish laws had been taught in the early church, there would certainly be a record of protest if there has been a change, but there are NONE.

Your arguments is really one of silence.

People fall into Adventism like those that step off into quicksand. They find their faith (if they had any to begin with) shipwreaked.
---lee1538 on 11/25/11


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If the observance of Sunday was something that was without scriptural support, then certainly we would see many protesting its change, but we do not.
--lee1538 on 11/24/11
Are you that dull?
How could they protest when they did not know the bible?
Do you not recall the work of men like luther TO PUT THE WORD OF GOD IN EVERY MANS HAND?

In the early dayus of christainity people trusted the words of others. Noteveryone had a bible or a copy of the word of God.

In many parts of the world even today, part of the Catholic Mass is said in LATIN a language which the masses do not understand.

If they did not know JUSTIFICATION BY FAITH, what else did they not know?
---francis on 11/25/11


**francis //Between this Time history tells us that many christians were forced and deceived into sunday as a Holy day. in 321 AD Constantine made Sunday an official Roman sabbath to please both Pagans and christians.**

WRONG!

First, the pagan Roman method of marking dates was the MONTH, not the week. The Pagans had NO weekly day corresponding to the Jewish Sabbath.

Even SDA scholars are beginning to admit that now, no matter what your popular controversialists and propagandists say.

Next, Christians were meeting in the early morning of Sunday for the Eucharist, as early Christian writers, such as Justin Martyr, attest.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/25/11


The purpose of the laws was to reveal that God's people were different then all other nations round about, which nations had no laws. A holy people have command and discipline in their daily lives, but sinners do whatsoever lawlessness they desire onto their own hurt. As a father commands or instructs his child for the child's well-being, so to the heavenly Father commands his creation for creations well-being.
---Eloy on 11/25/11


Rob: (Is that your name or your occupation?)

"Jerry, how dare you write....blah,blah,blah."

Because it's true. Your insistence that EGW was a false prophet is a hateful LIE. You claim to come from a SDA family. (I wrote that that is doubtful since they fed you unclean meat.) How many of EGW's books have you read?

I'll bet you get your info from anti-SDA sources which derive from disgruntled SDAs like Walter Rae and Desmond Ford, don't you? If you'd like a non-biased source, I recommend E.G. White, Prophet of Destiny, by Rene Noorbergen (available at Amazon). Noorbergen became famous in the '50s and '60s for debunking psychics and mystics. But when he tackled EGW, what he found converted him.
---jerry6593 on 11/25/11


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francis //Between this Time history tells us that many christians were forced and deceived into sunday as a Holy day. in 321 AD Constantine made Sunday an official Roman sabbath to please both Pagans and christians.

If the observance of Sunday was something that was without scriptural support, then certainly we would see many protesting its change, but we do not.

And worst yet for your position is that there is NOTHING in the Epistles that encourages Sabbath observance. If it was important,it would have been taught in the Epistles.

Your view from Acts that the Apostles went to the synagogues to preach the gospel does not in the least support the observance of the Sabbath.
---lee1538 on 11/24/11


jerry6593 on 11/24/11: Oddly, when I read Lev 11:13-19 (it is one sentence) 'And these you shall have in abomination among the birds..... and the bat' (it is a list of animals), it LOOKS like it lists the bat as a 'bird'. Check it out, I may be making a mistake.

I SUSPECT that the Hebrew (translated as 'birds' may actually mean 'anything that flies', not literally a bird).

But there Cluny has a point IN A LITERAL TERM!
---Peter on 11/24/11


Jerry, how dare you write "rather than discern God's intent and OBEYING him out of faith, when their erroneus beliefs are shown to contradict scriptures, and resort to tasteless attacks on SDA's in general and Ellen White in particular".

Jerry, it has been proven over and over again Ellen G. White was a FALSE PROPHET.

You also reject what is clearly written in Galatians 2:19-21.

You insist on people keeping the law, yet you bear FALSE WITNESS (LIE).

A perfect example of this is when you wrote on these blogs I did not grow up in a SDA home, and I must have a brother who is an only child.
---Rob on 11/24/11


--lee1538 11/24/11
1: Even during the time of the apostles false doctrines was being taught n churches.
2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work:
Also see the message to the 7 churches in revelation.
2: By 70 AD Rome was against Jews and christians. The Temple was dectroyed and many christian were fed to lions. This hatred of all things Godly by Rome went on until Constantine converted. Between this Time history tells us that many christiasn were forced and deceived into sunday as a Holy day. in 321 AD Constantine made Sunday an official Roman sabbath to please both Pagans and christians.
Daniel 7:23 The fourth beast ( ROME) shall be the fourth kingdom..And he shall ..think to change times and laws:
---francis on 11/24/11


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The Ten Commandments say nothing directly about diet. Nor do they say anything directly about all the death penalties and sacrifices by fire commanded in the Law of Moses.

So, how is it that the death penalties and burnt animal sacrifices and keeping the details of the Passover are Jewish only, but not the dietary laws?

By the way, do any Jews keep the Passover as detailed in Exodus 12:1-51? > "every man" shall kill a lamb . . . roasted head, legs, and guts . . . "as an ordinance" "forever", and tell your children why.
---Bill_willa6989 on 11/24/11


Francis: It should come as no surprise that Cluny doesn't know scripture very well (ref: birds v. bats). He and Lee seem to spend many hours trying to prove that the Bible doesn't mean what it clearly says, rather than try to discern God's intent and OBEYING Him out of faith. When their erroneous beliefs are shown to contradict scriptures, they characteristically resort to irrelevant and tasteless attacks on SDAs in general, and Ellen White in particular.
---jerry6593 on 11/24/11


JackB on 11/23/11

How is it that only 1/10 of these commandmets are jewish?

Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make any graven image, to bow down ro them:
Exodus 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain,
Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exodus 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother:
Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.
Exodus 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Exodus 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.
Exodus 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness
Exodus 20:17 Thou shalt not covet

when they were all giving by the same God at the same time, written on the same stone by the same God what BCV says 1/10 is jewish?
---francis on 11/24/11


francis//Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues EVERY SABBATH DAY.

The Christian faith spread with preaching the gospel in Jewish synagogues on the Sabbath.

Since SDA scholars have found that the church outside of Judea no longer observed the Sabbath by the end of the first century, how do you account for the transition?

Obviously if the church no longer observed the Sabbath by the end of the first century, we can only conclude that neither the Apostles nor their immediate successors taught Sabbath keeping.

Keeping the Sabbath has nothing to do with our walk or spirituality. It is Jesus we must abide in, not in Jewish laws.
---lee1538 on 11/24/11


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I believe the Jerusalem council Acts 15 made it abundantly clear that Gentile Christians need not observe laws that were strictly Jewish in nature - such things as physical circumcision, Sabbath keeping, or dietary laws
Exactly Lee.
---JackB on 11/23/11
Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues EVERY SABBATH DAY.

To the gentie reader, does this encourage the sabbath, or discourage the sabbath?

Acts 13:42 the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the NEXT SABBATH.

Acts 13:44 And the NEXT SABBATH DAY came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
---francis on 11/23/11


I believe the Jerusalem council Acts 15 made it abundantly clear that Gentile Christians need not observe laws that were strictly Jewish in nature - such things as physical circumcision, Sabbath keeping, or dietary laws

Exactly Lee. However we are still bound by the moral laws which are wrapped up in loving God and loving your neighbor.

Only a fool would think that a man who spends his life serving God with love and other with love would burn in the fires of hell because he went to church on the wrong day.

I suspect that some people who point the finger at others for breaking the Sabbath, have issues with guilt because they struggle with keeping the moral law themselves.
---JackB on 11/23/11


This same chapter says that bats are birds.
Do you believe that, francis?
---Cluny on 11/23/11
If God said it, I believe it

did God say it cluny?

Leviticus 11:13 And these [are they which] ye shall have in abomination among the fowls,
Leviticus 11:19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.
---francis on 11/23/11


//You must be graffed in to the house of Israel. Rom 11:17-24
---jerry6593

Into the household of God (Eph. 2:20), namely spiritual Israel,NOT into the religion of Judaism.

I believe the Jerusalem council Acts 15 made it abundantly clear that Gentile Christians need not observe laws that were strictly Jewish in nature - such things as physical circumcision, Sabbath keeping, or dietary laws.

The Apostles saw that God had accepted the Gentiles and that without converting to Judaism.

Acts 15:8-9 And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us,and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith.
---lee1538 on 11/23/11


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\\The birds however does not have such a clean discription, Birds seem to go by Family, or Genus

Leviticus 11:15 raven after his kind\\

This same chapter says that bats are birds.

Do you believe that, francis?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/23/11


lee1538: I believe the purpose of God commanding these food laws is for human-beings to have PERFECT good HEALTH living on the earth.
---Adetunji on 11/23/11


Lee: "consensus of view"

The consensus of view of the New Testament is that you must be a member of "spiritual Israel".

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

You must be graffed in to the house of Israel. Rom 11:17-24
---jerry6593 on 11/23/11


Francis //And because I am part of a convenant made with JUDAH and ISRAEL. That makes me A JEW
---
Believe as you will,however, the consensus of view is that the decision rendered at the Jerusalem council Acts 15 was that Gentiles did NOT have to convert to Judaism to become genuine Christians. It was easily seen that the Holy Spirit came also upon the Gentiles, that God made no distinction.

(15:8-9) And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us, and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith.

The Spirit cleansed the Gentiles believers by what? By faith!!!!
---lee1538 on 11/23/11


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When it comes to the mamal we have a good discription of what to eat and not to eat:
Leviticus 11:3 Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is clovenfooted, [and] cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat.

Those that live in the water we haev a good discription of what to eat and what not to eat.
Leviticus 11:9 whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.
The birds however does not have such a clean discription, Birds seem to go by Family, or Genus

Leviticus 11:15 raven after his kind,
---francis on 11/22/11


Francis believes he is a Jew,--lee1538 on 11/22/11

Romans 2:29 But he (FRANCIS) is a Jew, which is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter, whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Ephesians 2:12 That at that time FRANCIS was without Christ, being alien from the commonwealth of Israel, and stranger from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus FRANCIS who sometimes was afar off is made nigh by the blood of Christ. Now therefore FRANCIS is no more stranger and foreigner, but FELLOWCITIZENS with the saints, and of the household of God,

And because I am part of a convenant made with JUDAH and ISRAEL. That makes me A JEW
---francis on 11/22/11


There are some animals which i do not know what they look like unless i get a translation. Deuteronomy 14:5 The hart,roebuck, pygarg, and the chamois
I do not know what they are. So how do I know if they are fot for food?

I would have to observe them to see whether hey Leviticus 11:3 parteth the hoof, and is clovenfooted, and cheweth the cud,

remember back in those days people did not get USDA choice from the grocer, they had to hunt it, or trap ir, fish it or tame it.
these laws let them know by observing which was good to eat
---francis on 11/22/11


//Leviticus 11:47 To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.

VERY SIMPLE: So that WE can know what to eat and what not to eat.

----------
We should all excuse Francis since he believes that he is a Jew, that once one becomes a Christian one automatically must observe all the laws pertaining to Judaism include the Lord of God as well as the Law of Moses.

Hopefully one of these days, he will see that his church is really belongs to a Judaizing denomination that really does not have any good grasp on spiritual truth.
---lee1538 on 11/22/11


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Leviticus 11:47 To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.

VERY SIMPLE: So that WE can know what to eat and what not to eat.

Let me explain how this works: Let's say that you went hunting. How would you know what beast to kill and eat.
Well of the beast you can only eat those wich parted hooves that chew cud.
By examine the beast you would know whether they were good for food or not.

Fishing for example, If you went fishing and pulled in a catfish, you would know it is not for food, because it has skin, no scales.
Shrimp: No fins
So by giving a discription of how to identify clean from unclean we will know what to eat.
---francis on 11/21/11


Jewish dietary restrictions were very practical, the population lived in Palestine. there was no means of refrigeration and potable water supplies were questionable so people drank wine. Trichinosis was a real problem so people should avoid pork. Freshly caught fish can be cooked but they can be preserved by salting or smoking. Coruscations can't be easily preserved and they were not that prevalent in inland lakes in Palestine any way.
---Blogger9211 on 11/21/11


According to my Jewish friends the food laws are just another reminder to Jews that they are Jewish, same as Shabbat.
---John.usa on 11/20/11


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