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Why Did Jesus Have To Die

Why did Jesus have to die?

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 ---James_Mark_OBrien on 11/27/11
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Trav, there is no tribes going to be saved unless all of them have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. There is no other way in to heaven. One way only. Jesus Christ. We could go on and on, but to no avail. Those that believe in the Lord, makeup the Spiritual Israel of God. The flesh profits nothing. Thanks for debating, blessings to you.
---Mark_V. on 12/16/11


Trav, I do have everything, because everything said about Israel is fulfilled in Jesus Christ.
---Mark_V. on 12/11/11

Why did he die?
Acts 13:23
Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
Acts 26:7
Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.

Your doctrine is of "ex-clusion",explulsion,rejection and denial.
GOD scripture is specific....While he is the GOD of all his specific tools are in effect and still working despite your doctrines of briars and many tangles.
---Trav on 12/12/11


Trav, I do have everything, because everything said about Israel is fulfilled in Jesus Christ. You just don't want to see it. Everthing the angel of the Lord told either Joseph, Mary, about Jesus was to fuffill what was said concerning Israel, for the angel was quoting Isaiah, Hosea, Jer. etc. Jesus whole life was fulfilling all the Old Testament accounts of Israel. All Israel that was going to be were only those who believed by faith, no others were going into the kingdom of God. If you followed the story of Jacob whose name was changed. In the New Testament the name Israel not only applies to the One Victorious Man, the true Seed, Jesus Christ, but also to those who belong to Christ. Believers in Jesus are infused into the Seed.
---Mark_V. on 12/11/11


Trav, .. yet the context tells us otherwise. ...they trampled it to their own destruction.
---Mark_V. on 12/8/11

Similar happening today. You have everything, yet trample GOD's word .....

Hosea 1:10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered, it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

11 "Then" shall the children of "Judah" and the children of "Israel" be gathered together, and appoint themselves "one" head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.
---Trav on 12/9/11


Trav, if you read all the verses before Amos 9:9 you will read that they are speaking of the destruction of the wicked in Israle, but you are implying that all Israelites were going to be saved, yet the context tells us otherwise.
"Though they hide from My sight at the bottom of the sea, From there I will command the serpent, and it shall bit them" (v.3). So when you say all Israel, it cannot possibly be those wicked ones. Only the remnant of God will be saved.
It can never mean the wicked. Or those without faith. They had everything other nations never had, and they trampled it to their own destruction.
---Mark_V. on 12/8/11




A better question is why has Jesus lineage been continually sacrificed?
---Leigh on 12/2/11

Leigh, first one should ask...how they, you can prove they are the people they claim to be. By scriptural mark and sign. Anti-Christ Imposters may be who you are honoring with concern.

Second, sacrificed? To what GOD? On what Altar?

Daniel 11:32
And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
---Trav on 12/8/11


Trav, you are reading too much into the passages. Isa 45:25 is not speaking of every single Israelite. ---Mark_V. on 12/7/11

Well I have never said. Not knowing...can't.
Though it is very probable you may be incorrect.

All means both houses. Judah/Benj and the Nth House.

So I need some witnesses. Heb 8:8 and Jer 31:31.

All can mean: Amos 9:9
For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
Acts 2:36
Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
---Trav on 12/8/11


Trav, you are reading too much into the passages. Isa 45:25 is not speaking of every single Israelite. Physical descendants from Abraham alone cannot bring justification. Only the faithful remnant of Israel will be saved (v.16,17) 'Justified' means to be declared righteous, to be treated as if one is not sinful, but holy through the application of Christ righteousness. (v. 16) indicates "They shall be ashamed. And also disgraced, all of them, they shall go in confusion together who are makers of Idols" Those Israelites were not included in salvation.
---Mark_V. on 12/7/11


"What shall we say then? That "ethnos/nations (of Israel), who did not purse righteousness have attained to righteousness,even the righteousness of faith, ..... Rom 9:30-33.
---Mark_V. on 12/6/11

"All of" Israel means all of. Whether u approve or depise.
Psa130:8 he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.
Isa45:25In the LORD shall all seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.
Jer 2:4
Hear ye the word of the LORD, O house of Jacob, and all the families of the house of Israel: all.
Eze 37:22 I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel, one king shall be king to them all: they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more..
---Trav on 12/7/11


Trav, your egnoring Scripture. Israel rejected the Lord. He came for them and they rejected Him. The present condition of Israel "What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not purse righteousness have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith, but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. Why? Because they did not seek it by faith," but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone, as it is written' Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense, And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame" Romans 9:30-33.
But if anyone believe by faith in the Messiah, they will be saved. Some have already.
---Mark_V. on 12/6/11




His promises to Israel had conditions. "if" they rejected. ---Mark_V. on 12/6/11

You assume "they" rejected? Who is "they"?

Judah rejected. Judah/Benj only retained the married name of Israel you are referring to.

The "Lost Sheep" of the House "of Israel" have not rejected.
Otherwise you say that Christ failed.
He did not fail. He cannot fail.
Matt 15:24
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep "of" the house "of" Israel.

Avoiding scripture by ignorance of is fine, if one does proclaim with authority....doctrines they cannot scripturally supply witnesses for.
---Trav on 12/6/11


Trav, you said,
" Once you accept they are there, GOD is unchanging and does what he promises you can take another step."
They are there and God nature, character and attributes never change. His promises to Israel had conditions. "if" they rejected. Here is one many passages that speak of that.
"And Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldy, saying, it was necessary that the word of God be spoken first to you, (Israel) Since you thrust it aside and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles. For so the Lord has commanded us, saying,
"I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth"
(Acts 13:46,47).
---Mark_V. on 12/6/11


Then you said my opinion, everything you wrote and have written is your opinion. ---Mark_V. on 12/4/11


This is exactly why I post scriptures that you have problems with. Then you are arguing with GOD's elected mouthpiece. Not an opinion.

Admission of the fact that do not like certain scriptures, or understand these scriptures will be a first step in the fearless faith you lack. Once you accept they are there, GOD is unchanging and does what he promises you can take another step. Honoring. By honoring you might see what you chafe yourself to see now.

Psalm 94:14
For the LORD will not cast off his people, neither will he forsake his inheritance.
---Trav on 12/4/11


Trav, I made out some of what you said. The value of two prophets" you say I don't know the value. I know the value, but don't know your value or what you are talking about concerning them.
Then you said my opinion, everything you wrote and have written is your opinion. You are doing the same. I have presented you hundreds of Scriptures and given the context. You have not given the context of any. You only put a passage down with no explanation.
You said, I don't recognize Israel, you are so wrong. I have given you answers concerning Israel, and spoken of the Elect from Israel. I don't speak about those in the flesh, they rejected Christ. I recognize those who believed by faith. Why worry about those who stump on Christ?
---Mark_V. on 12/4/11


Trav, When you write in what I call a tongue (singular) no one can understand. What do you want the witnesses to do? Explain. ---Mark_V. on 12/2/11

Interesting that you proclaim (attempt to convince)many unscriptural ideas, postings with such authority but you say you can't see the value of two Prophets, or Prophet/Apostle, Prophet/Christ?
You almost stated what you're after....an Opinion. Scripture negates or confirms doctrines/opinions. Quite appropriate to use.
You don't recognize Israel,or look for so how could you discuss Israel? You don't. Scripture does, with authority. Far easier to flow with the scriptural river of truth than paddle against. Your avoidance begs/demands my pointing too.
---Trav on 12/3/11


Trav, I'm not angry with you. I was speaking truthful. When you write in what I call a tongue (singular) no one can understand. Here you go again speaking of two witnesses. What do you want the witnesses to do? Explain. Why not just say, this passages speak against you and give the passages? It is so simple. I'm not the only one that has had trouble understanding what you are arguing about only that you are arguing and we don't know why. Like with Israel and the devorce ones. What are you saying? That they only will be saved? Or they won't? That only Jews will be saved? That no one else but Jews? What are you trying to say?
---Mark_V. on 12/2/11


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A better question is why has Jesus lineage been continually sacrificed?
---Leigh on 12/2/11


Often the point of those who post Scriptures alone, is obscure.
---Warwick on 12/2/11

Interesting word obscure. We should double test preach/ teach for who the witnesses are obscure or avoided.
Isaiah 29:18
And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of "obscurity", and out of darkness.
John 9:41
Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see, therefore your sin remaineth.
Ephesians 4:18
Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
---Trav on 12/2/11


Mark I understand your point. It is much better to supply Scriptures with a comment as to how you see they apply to the point in hand. This greatly limits the chance of misunderstanding.

Often the point of those who post Scriptures alone, is obscure.



---Warwick on 12/2/11


Trav, Putting passages out there when many times they have a different context.
I don't need to be smart on Scripture because the Spirit reveals the word to me, not the prophets .....
---Mark_V. on 12/2/11

Smart? I've found very little that wasn't pointed out.
Verifying what is pointed out with two + scriptural witnesses is out of fear and honor. Never failed me nor will it.
If you fail to see the context then you should search witnesses for the context.
Objecting going against GOD's witnesses/OT prophets delivers shortfall in seeing or understanding. They explain better. More fulfilling than chainsawing opinions of mine. Your spirit doesn't seem to align with theirs given by GOD....then consider your animosity.
---Trav on 12/2/11


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God said so.The act and the will of God Almighty proving even death cannot withstand Him-He alone has the power over it.

Conquered [by him]
"Death where is thy sting?"
Is 25:8-9,Hos 13:14, 1Cor15

Jn 2:19...I will raise it

Lk23:46
And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, [he gave up the ghost.]
(Not taken-He gave it)

For the Resurrection.
Is 25:8-9
He will swallow up death in victory...
And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this [is] our God, we have waited for him, and he will save us: this [is] the LORD, we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation

Repentance unto remission
---char on 12/2/11


Trav, I was right, again you spoke with many words but did not make your point. Why don't you just say we are wrong and give the reason? Why speak in riddles? Putting passages out there when many times they have a different context. Maybe I'm just not as smart as you, sorry for that. I don't need to be smart on Scripture because the
Spirit reveals the word to me, not the prophets or any man but God, but the spirit does not reveal what you say.
---Mark_V. on 12/2/11


...with Michael, I don't know what his point is. He writes a little like Trav. If they could only write the passage, and give their point, then a person can answer. ---Mark_V. on 12/1/11

It is not hard to determine who searches by faith fearfully, careful to avoid adding too or taking away with opinion.
These use scriptural witnesses that make the point. These witnesses were authorized by GOD.
Adding opinion you two desire for pick points contributes nothing but, to your further confusion.
While it is teeth gnashing for unsupported doctrines it protects the poster and enlightens the Berean types, DT's with scriptural confirmations.
Not all see/hear scripture or want too.
Enlightenment to the observer by default.
---Trav on 12/2/11


Warwick, to get a picture of what JamesL and his likes believe in, that "salvation is for everyone", which is also known as "universalism" or of late "the gospel of inclusion" by Carlton Pearson, google those keywords and you'll know where they are coming and going with this train of thought pertaining to salvation. You'll be surprise that evangelists like Billy Graham and Robert Schuller subscribe to this and they claim to be "christians".

Honestly, Jesus did admonish us, "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you." Matthew 7:6
---christan on 12/2/11


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//Maybe Michael believes only Jews can be saved?
---Warwick on 12/1/11//
It's an easy read, NOW in the BOC there is no difference.
Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in TIME PAST (OT, Matt thru early Acts) Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands, 12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph.2:13 BUT NOW(Rom-Phil.) in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
---michael_e on 12/2/11


James, Romans 1:16, Paul was not ashame, "he had been in prison, chased out of Thesalonica (Acts 17:10) and other places but remain eager to preach the gospel in Rome where political powers and paganism religion was big. And although the message may sound foolish to some, it's effective because it carries with it the Omnipotence of God's power and is the only power that is able to overcome man's sinful nature and give new life.
"Salvation" means "deliverance" or "rescue" It delivers people from lostness (Matt. 18:11) from the wrath of God (Rom. 5:9) from willful spiritual ignorance (Hos.4:6) from evil self-indulgence (Luke 14:26) from the darkness of false religion (Col. 1:13: 1 Peter 2:9) cont.
---Mark_V. on 12/2/11


James, you wrote "yet salvation is for everyone regardless of whether or not they believe." It appears you are saying people can receive salvation even if they have no faith. Maybe I have misunderstood your point?

Surely forgiveness of sins and ongoing salvation is all of faith. Jesus did it all for us but we must believe and repent of our sins to be forgiven. And we must persist.

You have lost me!
---Warwick on 12/1/11


Mark V and Warwick,

the reason it seems I am going in different directions is because 'salvation' means SO MUCH MORE than simply going to heaven.

Salavation is only for those who believe (Rom 1:16 - saved from hell), yet salvation is for everyone regardless of whether or not they believe (Romans 5:10-19 - resurrection), and also salvation WAS only for the Jews, but Gentiles have been grafted in (Rom 11:7-24 - inheritance)

Salvation is gained through suffering (Hebrews 1:14, 2:9-10) and enduring in a confession through times of persecution (Matt 10:22, Rom 10:9-13)

You could always write me personally to discuss such a long-winded topic

jamea3384
---James_L on 12/1/11


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To answer the INITIAL question:

Jesus had to die because death was the punishment for everyone's sin, from the time of Adam.

No one person could die for the death of another, because each one had to die for HIS/HER OWN SINS

So only He who had no sins to die for could die for the sins of others

Simplified maybe, but it's my best attempt late at night!
---Peter on 12/1/11


Mark it is hard enough to make a point clearly, or understand what others write without the added hurdle of little if any correct sentence construction. You don't have to be a litterary giant to write explanations.

Maybe Michael believes only Jews can be saved?
---Warwick on 12/1/11


\\\James and Warwick:
Are you sure you MEAN the same thing by 'repent'?\\
---Peter on 12/1/11

you make an excellent point, Peter. I make no bones about what "repent" means, which is to have a change of mind.

It comes from the Greek 'metanoeo'

meta - change of condition
noeo - think, comprehend, perceive

If you have on a green shirt because you think it looks best with your pants, then see your favorite red shirt and become convinced that it will look best instead, then you have repented.

You have 'had a change of thinking' about your shirt.
---James_L on 12/1/11


Warwick, I also see James going in different directions, losing salvation, and then not losing salvation.
While with Michael, I don't know what his point is. He writes a little like Trav. If they could only write the passage, and give their point, then a person can answer. I have a hard time with Michael, because of how he writes, no telling what he is saying and might be saying the same as we are. State the point. For or against what one answers.
---Mark_V. on 12/1/11


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My point in quoting Acts 10:28 is it was unlawful for Peter a law keeping Jew to keep company with gentiles. That is the reason Peter was addressing Jews in Acts 2 & 3.
---michael_e on 12/1/11


Peter I am not really sure what James means about anything. I think we are yet to see the philosophy which is behind his odd views.

He wrote "There is no scripture that says anything about "repenting of sin" or "asking" anything." This has been shown to be incorrect by the quoting of many Scriptures. For example Luke 5:32 Jesus said "I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance." However he now appears to be off in another direction, and will not acknowledge Scripture says exactly what He claims it does not say.

I am definitely not sure but have a feeling he believes salvation is only for the Jews!
---Warwick on 12/1/11


James and Warwick:

Are you sure you MEAN the same thing by 'repent'?

It can be hard to know exactly what each person mean by that word

Could each of you put a post stating EXACTLY what each MEANS by that word?

It could help you sort out your differences

Maybe?

Please!
---Peter on 12/1/11


Michael, though Peter was speaking to Israelites he was also speaking to others "Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians.."

Nonetheless If on this day He had been talking exclusively to Israelites that does not mean salvation is not for all Jews (other than Israelites) and for gentiles.

"I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.

See also 1 Corinthians 1:24
---Warwick on 12/1/11


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Michael, you quoted "Acts 10: 28And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an UNLAWFUL thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation," which continues " but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean."

What was your point in part quoting this?
---Warwick on 12/1/11


//If Peters preaching (Acts 2)was directed only at Israelites (which it obviously wasn't)//
Obviously, Peter was speaking to Israel.
Acts 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews...
Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words,
Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly..
Acts 3:12And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel...
Acts 10: 28And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an UNLAWFUL thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation,
---michael_e on 12/1/11


James Jesus did say that however the apostles, and Christians since have not been told to restrict their evangelism solely to Israelites.

Haven't you forgotten you initially said "There is no scripture that says anything about "repenting of sin" or "asking" anything. " Since then I have showed this is incorrect. I think you should acknowledge this. For example Luke 5:32 Jesus said "I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance."

If Peters preaching (Acts 2)was directed only at Israelites (which it obviously wasn't) then they were also sinners who asked what they should do regarding their sin of unbelief. Peter said repent and be baptized!
---Warwick on 12/1/11


James, your arguing why something is not in a passage. You said,
"Where is "repent" in Romans 10:8?"
implying if repent is not there, a person cannot be saved. What is the gospel? The gospel is not one passage. When Jesus said, believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and thou will be saved" That's part of the gospel, for even the devil believes. And a person believes the gospel because He has been given faith. But that's not the only thing he receives when he is born of the Spirit. God grants him repentance.
"God may perhaps grant that they will repent and come to know the Truth, and they may escape from the snare of the devil, after been captured by him to do his will." ( 2 Tim. 2:25,26).
---Mark_V. on 12/1/11


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Isaiah 53:5 . . . He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities, the chastisement of our peace was upon Him, and with His stripes we are healed.
---Warwick on 11/28/11

To those of and ear and eye.
Isaiah 51:1Hearken to me, ye that follow after righteousness, ye that seek the LORD: look unto the rock whence ye are hewn, and to the hole of the pit whence ye are digged.

2Look unto Abraham your father, and unto Sarah that bare you: for I called him alone, and blessed him, and increased him.
7Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law, fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings.

Heb 8:10.
---Trav on 12/1/11


\\ Luke 5:32 "I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance." \\
---Warwick on 11/30/11


You apparently forget that Jesus also said:

I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (Matt 15:24)

Just as Paul said in Romans 9:4-5

"...Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons, and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the Law and the temple service and the promises, 5 whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen."

Jesus was calling the Israelites to repent of their sins, because it was their sin which got them cut off from their inheritance (Romans 10:21-11:7)
---James_L on 11/30/11


"Romans 10,
v.10 confess Jesus as Lord to be saved
v.13 call on the name of the Lord to be saved
v.12 call on the name of the Lord to be abounding in riches"


Half a gospel is no gospel at all. Truth be told, NO ONE CAN confess or call on the name of the Lord by their own "free-will" because Jesus declared, "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:44

If you belief that by your own "free-will" you can confess and call on the Lord, Jesus contradicts you and calls you a liar!
---christan on 11/30/11


James one criminal on the cross rebuked the other saying "don't you fear God?", admitting they were being justly punished. He asked Jesus to remember him "when you come into your kingdom." He feared God, was well aware of His sin, aware Jesus had a kingdom, asking to be part of it. He repented and Jesus accepted this.

Luke 5:32 "I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance." Clearly this means that those who ignore God's commands or rebell against them are sinners who Jesus calls to repent of their sin and be forgiven. Sin/repentance is much broarder than worshiping idols, as it concerns all sin which is rebelling against God's commands.
---Warwick on 11/30/11


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\\Therefore Jews alive after Jesus had ascended did have to accept Jesus as their Saviour\\
---Warwick on 11/30/11

I'm not talking about Jews in general, Warwick. I'm talking about those who were justified, just as Abraham was. Those who had believed God's promise of a Redeemer.

That is who Peter was talking to. He wasn't talking to a "God-fearing" Jew, he was talking to Jews who had been justified by faith.

They had to accept Jesus, or else what? Did Peter say what the consequenses were if they didn't? Or are you pushing a doctrine onto the text?

Let's keep it in Acts 2, Warwick. I'm not interested in what Paul said to someone else, only what Peter said to those believing Jews in Acts 2.
---James_L on 11/30/11


\\Their next task was to repent as spoken of in Romans 10:8\\
---Mark_V. on 11/30/11

Where is "repent" in Romans 10:8?

Compare the wording to Matthew 10, where Jesus warns His disciples about impending persecution - getting thrown in prisen, etc. And then He says:

"He who endures to the end will be saved"

And again in Romans 10,

v. 10 confess Jesus as Lord to be saved
v. 13 call on the name of the Lord to be saved
v. 12 call on the name of the Lord to be abounding in riches

Calling on Him, and confessing Him, are the SAME THING in Romans 10. Enduring in a confession to the end.
---James_L on 11/30/11


I believe we are clearly told what we should repent of "Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out" Acts 3:19

Acts 26:20 "...I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds" Acts 26:20.

Those of us who have been saved have, through the work of the Holy Spirit, come to understand that we were lost in sin, and wretched.

Like those in Acts 2:37 we came to the point where we asked, or wondered-what shall we do? We came to understand that the Lord Jesus had already done it all for us. I still remember how I repented of my sin, my rebellion against God, and gladly accepted His forgiveness.
---Warwick on 11/30/11


James: You are right that we are not told of what to repent.

But when we look at the ACTIONS of people who DID repent, especially those who were commended by Jesus (like the tax collector), it seems their repentance was due to their acceptance that they had not (before) been doing God's will, and a desire to DO God's will

So I take 'repentance' to be 'changing one's mind', as you say, FROM a way of life that it NOT doing God's will to one that is working to DO God's will

But yes, your comment is correct
---Peter on 11/30/11


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James "Jesus said to him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6. Therefore Jews alive after Jesus had ascended did have to accept Jesus as their Saviour-3,000were added to the number of those already saved.

To be saved is to partake in the salvation offered by Jesus.

In Acts ch. 2 Peter spoke to Jews and others who knew what was prophesied about the Messiah. And they saw the manifestation of the Holy Spirit's power. They realized what they had done to their own Messia and were appalled asking what they could do. Peter said repent and be baptized.

Nicodemus was a God-fearing Jew. Did Jesus accept he was already saved, in the Kingdom of God?
---Warwick on 11/30/11


James, Acts 2:37,38. They heard the gospel preached were cut to the heart. They were convicted by the Holy Spirit of the truth. Faith came by hearing the word of God. Now that they had been convicted and believed the gospel, they were asking "what must they do?" Their next task was to repent as spoken of in Romans 10:8 when the Word was near them, in their mouth and in their heart, that is the word of faith. (v.9) explains what they are doing by commiting their lives to Christ. If they had faith.
"That if you believe in the heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved" Then he explains how this happens. "for with the heart one believes unto righgeousness, etc.
---Mark_V. on 11/30/11


Warwick,
what happened to an OT believer who was still alive after Jesus died? Did they have to get "saved" again? Or did they die at the same time as Christ? Or did they all embrace Him as Messiah before He died? So that they all recognized Him before He died?

Or do you think that only 50 days after his death, there might have been some of them IN JERUSALEM who had not yet believed in Him?

Why do you think there is nothing mentioned in Acts 2 about anyone being "saved" ? It simply says that about 3,000 were "added to their number"

And what about verse 5? Eulabeis (or eulabes) was used only 4 times in the NT, and every other time it was a believer.
---James_L on 11/29/11


Warwick part 2,

the thief on the cross didn't ask Jesus to "save" him, he asked to be remembered, AFTER he believed in Jesus.

Luke 13:3 (along with many other "repent" passages) never says "repent from sin". The words repent/repentance (metanoeo, metanoia) means "have a change of mind"

If there isn't enough information to determine the focus of repentance, then it is best to not push a loaded definition onto the text.

Acts 17:30 is addressing pagans to "have a change of mind" concerning their idols.

Idol worship was about trusting a block of wood, etc. to provide, protect, make fertile, etc. It was a matter of faith, not only actions.
---James_L on 11/30/11


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Mat 9:2 And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, be of good cheer, thy sins be forgiven thee.
Who faith was Christ looking at?

How about the centurion!
Mat 8:5 And when Jesus was entered into Capernaum, there came unto him a centurion, beseeching him, And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented.
Who asked? I dare say I wonder if the servant even knew!
But what did Our Lord say after he marveled at it!
Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
Do you have this faith?
---TheSeg on 11/29/11


James you wrote "There is no scripture that says anything about "repenting of sin" or "asking" anything."

I gave Scriptures which showed there are!

In Acts 2:28 Peter was not speaking to believers in Christ but to Jews who saw the truth of what Peter preached. They were "cut to the heart" and asked Peter "what shall we do?" Peter called them to"repent and be baptized."

Likewise the criminal on the cross (Luke 24: 42,43) was aware of his evil, came to came to understand who Jesus was "And he said, Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom." He repented, he asked, and was saved. He wasn't baptized.
---Warwick on 11/29/11


The primary reasons for Christ's death was to pay the price for God the Father's chosen elect to pass from their former Patria Potesta to God the Father's becoming his adopted children [See Romans chapter 8 and look up the Roman Adoption Ceremony, you become a new person, new family name, all prior debts canceled, all for legal charges against you eliminated, all pending penalties against you eliminated, you are a new legal entry you start with a clean slate from that time forward. You have right of inheritance equal to any other family member, including subsequently born natural children.] Paul chose the analogy as during that time period the meaning of Roman Adoption was common knowledge, but most 21 century Christians don't understand it.]
---Blogger9211 on 11/28/11


Jesus died so that you and I can have life.
Jesus died so that we can live ours lives pleasing to him.
Jesus died so that we can have hope, love, contentment and strength in him
FOR ME TO LIVE IS CHRIST
THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH BUT GOD'S GIFT TO US IS ETERNAL LIFE.
NO THINGS CAN SEPARATE US FROM THE LOVE OF GOD.
JESUS DIED SO THAT HE CAN LIVE AND HE LIVES WITHIN MY HEART.
---YVONN3794 on 11/29/11


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"Why did Jesus have to die?" So that we might live.
---joseph on 11/29/11


To me, repentance of sin is not about your sins as per the Ten Commandments.
Its your disbelief in the power of God. When Christ said all sin will be forgiven, I believe him.
These sins will not be held against you. Why? Because all have sinned!
There is no difference here! So also our faith, given to us by God!

Where I see a difference is in how one believe the things they do about God.
Not in the ones that dont believe their still blind. Its in the ones who say they see.
But cant believe God can forgive, even before they were born.
The sins of the Spirit, repent of this. This is not about you! Heb_10:7!
This is about God!
Peace
---TheSeg on 11/29/11


Warwick,

In Acts 2:38, Peter was talking to believers. Verse 5 cas them "devout" Jews. This word for devou is used only for believers in the NT. Even still, the focus of the repentance is what they think about Christ. It's the baptism that brings "forgiveness". And for a believer, this forgiveness is relational, not judicial.

Romans 10:13 is used way out of context to support a "sinner's prayer". If you want to insist that the context is a gospel presentation, then read verse 20 and tell me how it fits in with verse 13 without contradicting. The context is an inheritance for those who endure persecution through faith in Christ and a bold confession
---James_L on 11/28/11


Jesus died to redeem the lost. "The Son of man came to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again. Level this Temple, and in three days I will raise it. He was wounded for our wrongs, he was crushed for our sin: the payment for our peace upon him, and that him impaled we are healed. Who his own self bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we being freed from sin, should live in righteousness, by whose livid wounding you were healed." Mt.20:28+ Lk.24:7+ Jn.2:19+ Is.53:5+ I Pt.2:24.
---Eloy on 11/28/11


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'Just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many'- Jesus Christ at Mathew 20:28 (NIV).

Christ, the 'Lamb of God', came to die to pay the 'ransom'- Jo.1:29.

As Jesus said on the night before his death, 'This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.' Mt.26:28.

Without the death of Jesus Christ, we have no basis for forgiveness of our sins. Without his death, we have no hope.

Hebrews 9:15-22, 'For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant... now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant... without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.' (NIV)
---David8318 on 11/28/11


It wasn't a matter that Christ had to die, but He knew that if the law concerning a person being right before God, He would have to provide the way. There are two things that had to be done: 1. Realize that ALL have sinned, and come short of fulfilling the law that was laid out in the Old Testament, and 2. Since we all have sinned, it was up to Christ to fulfill the reguierment of the law. Hebrews 9:22 (NASB77) "...and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. Hebrews 9:22 (NASB77) Romans 3:23-24 (NASB77) 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
---wivv on 11/28/11


Because for sin one must die, so Jesus died in our place, for our sins. Along with this > Ezekiel 33:11 says God has "no pleasure in the death of the wicked". So, we could not die right for our own sins. Only Jesus could die sweetly and obediently so His death could make up for our sins > He was on the cross "a sweet-smelling aroma" (Ephesians 5:2). Think how pleasing He must be, if He could make satisfaction to God for all our sins . . . of billions of evil people!! "for the whole world", John says in 1 John 2:2. Also, Jesus died so He could fully share with us, in things we go through > see Hebrews 2:14-18 with 4:15. His death and suffering show that God is involved in all things. God bless you, too (c:
---Bill_willa6989 on 11/28/11


As the Seq has said Jesus came to die.

He wasn't a victim, a revolutionary dragged off protesting, to His death. He knew He had come to die for the sins of mankind, long before His enemies even knew He existed. He was never destined to die of old age. That was not a possibility.

Isaiah 53:5 . . . He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities, the chastisement of our peace was upon Him, and with His stripes we are healed.

1 Peter 2:24 And He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness, for by His wounds you were healed.
---Warwick on 11/28/11


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John usa, You're dead wrong that
Jesus would have "died of natural causes"
Neither Adam or us die of natural causes, We inherited death from Adamic sin.
Jesus was free of Adamic sin and would still be alive on earth today if He was not impaled!(or did not return to heaven)
God never intended for man to die,but to be fruitful multiply and fill the earth!
Adam "blew it" for the whole human race
A life for a life was required, Jesus for Adam!
called a "ransom" in scripture!

---1st_cliff on 11/28/11


James,

Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" Acts 2:38

Luke 5:31,32 "And Jesus answered them, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance."

See also Luke 13:3, Acts 17:30.

Romans 10:30 "For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

What I have written is not a false Gospel, at all.
---Warwick on 11/28/11


\\Jesus did not "have to die". Being God Incarnate, He didn't "have" to do anything.\\
---Cluny on 11/28/11

John.usa did not say that Jesus had to die, he said Jesus would have died.

Jesus did not have to become incarnate. But once He did, then He subjected Himself to death. And if not by the hands of Roman soldiers, then He most certainly would have died of natural causes.

Otherwise, He would not be man the same as us.

Hebrews 2:14
Since, therefore, the children share flesh and blood, he himself likewise shared the same things, so that through death He might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil.
---James_L on 11/28/11


Did he have to die? Look to your heart.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

I dont think he would have had to die, if we would have understood all his words.
Whats sad is, Were there not ten cleansed? But where are the nine?
There are not found that returned to give glory to God, save this stranger.

Yet lackest thou one thing.
---TheSeg on 11/28/11


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\\Anyone who repents of their sin and asks Jesus for forgiveness will be forgiven by Him.\\
---Warwick on 11/28/11


That is a false gospel. What scripture declares is that anyone who believes in Him will not perish.

There is no scripture that says anything about "repenting of sin" or "asking" anything.

"To the one who does not work, but believes is Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness" Romans 4:5
---James_L on 11/28/11


\\Jesus was a human being. Had he not been killed he would eventually have died of natural causes.\\

Jesus did not "have to die". Being God Incarnate, He didn't "have" to do anything.

What He did He freely did. And nobody killed Him. As He Himself said, "No one takes My life. I willingly lay it down."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/28/11


He had to die because it was God's will for His life.

He said to His disciples: I came to earth for this one purpose alone, to die for mankind's sins.

He became the perfect Lamb of God, without spot or sin, that was offered up as a sacrifice for our sins. He shed his Blood for our sins so that we could become "the Righteousness of God through Christ Jesus."
---anon on 11/28/11


John, Hebrews 10:5 "Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said, Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired, but a body have you prepared for me," From this Scripture, and others, we can see Jesus was not just a man but the Messiah (Christ) one who did not have a body. Obviously if He already had a body it would not have been necessary to provide one for Him.

He was not just a man, the Son of Man, but God, the Son of God. He did not find Himself upon the cross by human effort but He came to die, to pay the price for sin (the wages of sin is death). Anyone who repents of their sin and asks Jesus for forgiveness will be forgiven by Him.
---Warwick on 11/28/11


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john.usa,

you are 100% correct.
---James_L on 11/28/11


1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures,

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world.


the wages of sin is death. Christ because of his love for us, took thatdeath for us, so that we would not have to die.
---francis on 11/27/11


Jesus was a human being. Had he not been killed he would eventually have died of natural causes.
---John.usa on 11/27/11


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