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Salvation Outside Of Christ

Is there salvation outside of Christ since they are and have been many in the world that have not or will never hear the Gospel message?

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 ---lee1538 on 11/30/11
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Matthew 16:27 "For the Son of man shall come..., and then he shall reward every man according to his works."

1 John 3:7 "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous."
This righteousness is the nature of what a man does.

God favors whomever does the right thing, Genesis 4:7 "If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted?..."

Look here: Luke 8:15 "But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience."

This man has, "an honest and good heart" by which he thereafter receiving the word, keep it and yield its fruit.
---Nana on 3/6/12


if anyone says he is without sin, the truth is not him, and he makes God out to be a liar...we still sin even when we accept Christ..because our bodies are sinful and as long as we live in this tent of a body we will remain sinful...even though we want to do right, we do what is wrong...everyone struggles before and after we receive Christ and the Holy Spirit..thats why they call it a spiritual war within us. we need to die to flesh everyday..its a process..God's plan for us is to become more like Christ everyday, its called the sanctification process
---john_mincey on 12/7/11


Francis: The verses you quote are good and true. However, there are some other verses as well, which suggest that Christians do sin, like 'For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing.' (Rom 7:19) and 'And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.' (debts are also sins in that prayer).

So I am not sure which one to use, I'm confused but still work not to sin

Blessings
---Peter on 12/7/11


1Jo 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.
Rev 2:4-5 Nevertheless I have [somewhat] against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works, or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
-Do the righteous need Christ or not?
-If they do, how can they be righteous by their own merits?
-If the righteous are truly righteous by merits and not by the shed blood of Christ, how does God forgive them?
Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
---micha9344 on 12/6/11


They have Moses and the prophets, let them hear them!

If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!



So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat?

Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
---TheSeg on 12/6/11




Francis //1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

So do we commit a sin if we eat a pork burger or simply view Christ as our eternal rest instead of the Jewish Sabbath which was merely a shadow of that which was to come?
---lee1538 on 12/6/11


1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil, for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
---francis on 12/6/11


There is righteous people without Christ, but they are righteous before man, not God. For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
There is righteous people in Christ, who have the imputed righteousness of Christ.
The passage Nana gave imply "if." And only those with a twisted mind will say there is righteous people without Christ. They don't want Christ to be their righteousness, and want their own works to mean something before God.
"What then? are we Jews any better off, No, not at all, for I have already charged that "all men" both Jews and Greeks, are under the power of sin" and hear this, "as it is written, None is righteous, no not one" Rom. 3:9-12.
---Mark_V. on 12/6/11


"Every descendant of Adam is condemned already."

And of course God speaks to the 'condemned' always in the same way:
Genesis 4:7 "If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door."
And again the same in Isaiah Isaiah 1:17 "Learn to do well, seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow."
And who but a hater dare say that a man who listened or listens to God and does as he says is dead and condemned? Only a deluded and
twisted mind...
---Nana on 12/5/11


How many people of Noah's day heard the message of death and salvation.
If they didn't hear they were judged.
If they did hear and did not respond, they were judged.
---micha9344 on 12/5/11




Lee when Jesus returns, and He only returns once more, the dead in Christ are raised, and the overcomers still living at that time are changed. IThes. 4:16>1Cr 15:52 He returns immediately following the tribulation. Mat. 24:29-31. His thousand year reign begins after Satan is bound. Rev. 20:4 We are all in spiritual bodies at that time. Jesus died for the sin of the world. 1Jo 2:2. Therefore the dead in Christ would include all who has died without hearing the gospel of the Lord ship of Jesus, His atoning sacrifice for man, and blatantly rejected it. Which would include all who died before His first advent, as well as those who die without hearing His gospel. They will be taught by those given to reign with Jesus during the millennium. Rev 5:10
---joseph on 12/4/11


Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man comes unto the father except through me."
---Jed on 12/4/11


joseph//Lee what does reincarnation have to do with what I have posted?
---
Sort of a joke!

Those that have never heard of Christ would have to come back again in another lifetime to hear the gospel.

There are 3 people passing away into eternity per second (or 97 million per year). Many of them are in countries where the gospel has yet to penetrate. What is their fate? If they lead righteous lives, then perhaps the only basis for their judgment will be on their works alone.
---lee1538 on 12/4/11


Eloy Part 2: Self righteousness does not save. Only the imputed righteousness of Christ can save you. Many people are righteous, but it's there own righteousnes, that righteous is still sinful since it is not by faith. Eze. 18:24 is talking about self righteous, their own righteousness.
---Mark_V. on 12/3/11


Eloy, you are completely wrong again. Just like before. I know you don't like it but here it is. You said,

"God is not unjust: The righteous souls whom never heard the gospel will go to heaven"

There is no righteous souls without Christ. Not one. Every descendant of Adam is condemned already.
"He who believes in Him is not condemned, "but he who does not believe is condemned already," because he has not believed in the name of the only Begotten Son of God"
If a person was righteous without Christ, he would not be condemned.
---Mark_V. on 12/3/11


Lee what does reincarnation have to do with what I have posted?
---joseph on 12/3/11


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Joseph //Is there salvation outside of Christ" No
"since they are and have been many in the world that have not or will never hear the Gospel message?" All will. That is what the Millennia is for.

I would reckon that if re-incarnation is a valid doctrine, then those who never heard of Christ and died may find themselves re-born in another body in which they will heard the gospel.

Hebrews 9:27-28 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many (BUT NOT ALL). To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

---lee1538 on 12/2/11


Jesus says, "No one comes to the Father except through Me." (in John 14:6)

Also, "Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:" (Hebrews 12:14) Without holiness, "no one will see the Lord." Plus, Isaiah 55:11 guarantees that God's word "shall accomplish" all that God pleases with us, including "as He is, so are we in this world." (in 1 John 4:17)

Plus, I notice how much unforgiveness there is in cultures that don't know of Jesus > Mark 11:25-26 > if we don't forgive, we are not forgiven.

Ones say those who don't know of Jesus will be saved, but ones of these say wrong people don't need to be forgiven, so they are anti-forgiveness!!!!
---Bill_willa6989 on 12/2/11


"Is there salvation outside of Christ" No
"since they are and have been many in the world that have not or will never hear the Gospel message?" All will. That is what the Millennia is for.
---joseph on 12/2/11


God is not unjust: The righteous souls whom never heard the gospel will go to heaven, and not to hell. Jesus said, "I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." Matthew 9:10-13. Three kinds of people go to heaven: the righteous by nature who never heard the gospel, the born-again Christian, and the backslider who repented or returned to the Lord. Thus there are the righteous before Christ's arrival. Please read Romans 2:6-10,14,15,25-29.
---Eloy on 12/2/11


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One view that those who are saved outside of Christ will be judged solely upon their works.

At the Great White throne judgment, the books will be opened and those whose name is not in the book will descend into the lake of fire.

Rev 20:12,15 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.... And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
---lee1538 on 12/1/11


everyone who is saved, whether they knew christ or not, will be saved BECUASE OF CHRIST

There is NO salvation outside/ besides what jesus the Christ provides.

I post this to say:
There are people who would have never heard the gospel who will be saved. their salvation will be based also on what Jesus did on the cross

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at, but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Only those who know and hera the gospel can repent
Those who remain ignorant will/can receive mercy
---francis on 12/1/11


Perhaps.

Romans 2 describes Gentiles who would not have heard of God's Law. The passage describes them as "a law to themselves". It also describes them as "showing the work of the law written on their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts either defending or accusing them".

God has written His laws on our hearts and our conscience is the guide. If a person never hearing of Jesus can follow God's law written on their heart and having a clean conscience and clean thoughts all through their life, then perhaps they will be judged righteous by God.

However, all those ifs and buts seem to make it a very difficult if not impossible proposition.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/1/11


Is there salvation outside of Christ since they are and have been many in the world that have not or will never hear the Gospel message?
---lee1538 on 11/30/11

Romans 2:13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Romans 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another,
Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
---francis on 12/1/11


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If any at all are saved, it's because of our Lord, God, and Saviour Jesus Christ.

As God said, "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy."

If He has mercy on a mahometan or Hindu or Jain or Buddhist, it's still through Jesus, and we should do nothing but rejoice.

The real question we should be asking is what answer shall we who know of Jesus give at the Last Judgement.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/30/11


A good question,Lee!I will answer ONLY for those who NEVER hear the Gospel, either directly or indirectly.I fell that, since God was willing to save Abraham who was before Christ) He will judge others upon what they knew or could have know.

HOWEVER 'could have known' is ANYTHING they were exposed to. There is a story, which I heard but cannot (yet)verify, of a tribe somewhere who knew they had fallen, and had learned that they must 'wait for redemption, praying for forgiveness' (the other section was that the prophet would break wood like leaves, which was fulfilled by the Bible, a block looking like wood,but opening like leaves)
---Peter on 11/30/11


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