ChristiaNet MallWorld's Largest Christian MallChristian BlogsFree Bible QuizzesFree Ecards and Free Greeting CardsLoans, Debt, Business and Insurance Articles

Can We Lose Salvation

Why does the Bible contain so many warnings for Christians if it is not possible for us to lose our salvation? Would God warn us of something that can never happen to us?

Join Our Christian Dating and Take The Salvation Bible Quiz
 ---JackB on 11/30/11
     Helpful Blog Vote (2)

Post a New Blog



\\Enduring to the end refers to future tribulation that will come upon earth as a judgment on Israel for rejecting her Messiah.\\
---michael_e on 12/5/11

Michael e,
Jesus was speaking to His disciples, and telling them that THEY would be dragged into court, etc. And He said to THEM, "He who endures to the end will be saved" (Matt 10:22)

Paul also said in 2Tim 2:12
"IF WE endure, WE will reign with Him"

Jesus also said,
"Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, For Theirs Is The Kingdom Of Heaven" (Matt 5:10)

Nowhere does anyone mention that this is only for a future time, for a future people.
---James_L on 12/6/11


James, inheriting salvation and believers already inheriting something after salvation are two different things. You want to combine them both.
The passage in Hebrews is quoting Matthew 18:10.
All the passages you gave are saying, "if we" meaning already done or if "we don't". Those are things that happen to a believer if you are a believer, and things that won't if they are not.
Inheritance is mainly for believers already. Unbelievers receive inheritance but not from God but from family. If an unbeliever endure hardship, he is not inheriting salvation. Inheritance and salvation are two different subjects.
---Mark_V. on 12/6/11


There are all kinds of suffering a Christian goes through. BUT here's a list most definitely EVERY CHRISTIAN will experience...

1 The fellowshio of His Sufferings,

2. Chastizement

3. Our faith TESTED to bring us to maturity/perfection having Christ formed in us..

4. Being CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST.

5. Not only are we to believe but ALSO to sufer for the sake of the Gospel.

6. Just having the Spirit of God IN US alone brings hatred alone from a satanic sin filled world.

7. Jesus Himseld said you must carry your cross...SUFFERING.

To eat His flesh and drink His Bood is identifying with His earthly SUFFERING.

Anyone who tells you differently never really BELIEVED in the first place.
---kathr4453 on 12/6/11


JamesL, WE are menbers of His Body, baptized into the Body of Christ, making up one NEW MAN. Christ is the Head of the Body. We are members of His Body.

Th Bible also states, when one member SUFFERS we ALL SUFFER.

This is how closely connected we are as ONE organism.

We reign and rule with Christ during the 1000 year reign., not in Heaven. Some will be least in the kingdom JamesL...

Read what Jesus said to the mother who wanted her sons to be greatest in the Kingdom...

Read Rev as to who is seen...with Christ at the 1st resurrection.

Hebrews 11...the testimony of SUFFERING FAITH., beginning with Cain who murdered his brother...WHY?
Everyone Calvin murdered will also be GREAT in the Kingdom!
---kathr4453 on 12/6/11


JamesL, We see in Revelation 3 those who are OVERCOMERS are the ones who reign and rule with Christ, and sit with Him on His Throne, also state again in an earlier letter...those who OVERCOME.

SO now we need to understand the parallell between overcomers and suffering, since it would appear it either comes from the same source or there is a contradiction in scripture.

YOUNG MEN have overcome SATAN. Just as Jesus OVERCAME. WHEN did Jesus overcome? When He was tested 40 days by Satan..and because of that SUFFERING Hebrews tells us Jesus is able to help us when we suffer...bringing us to a place of being overcomers.

WHO are the overcomers? Look in 1st John for your answer!
---kathr4453 on 12/6/11




Kathr,

I don't believe that all believers suffer.

John 12:42-43
Nevertheless many, even of the authorities, believed in Him.But because of the Pharisees they did not confess it, for fear that they would be put out of the synagogue, for they loved human glory more than the glory that comes from God.

Considering that Jesus said:
"Whoever believes in Him will not perish"

was Jesus inaccurate?

Or were these "believers" justified, with eternal security, and yet refused to suffer persecution?

Your proposal is no different than the Calvinist "P" from the TULIP
---James_L on 12/5/11


Scripture teaches in Romans through Philemon that once saved, you are always saved (Eph. 1:13-14, 4:30, 1Cor. 1:21, Rom. 6:22, 8:16, 31-39).To lose it, means you had to do something to earn it and you were on "probation", which would be conditional salvation. Salvation is a free gift and cant be earned (Eph. 2:8-9). It's also complete and unconditional. Without right division there is no eternal security. There are verses in Matt, Mark, and Luke that indicate a person must "endure to the end" to receive life and enter into the Kingdom. Hebrews also warns against "falling away". Enduring to the end refers to future tribulation that will come upon earth as a judgment on Israel for rejecting her Messiah.
---michael_e on 12/5/11


francis, using Matthew 10:1 and 20 is a very lame attempt to justify your claim that Judas "received the power of the holy ghost to cast out demons and heal the sick". Here's why, even Satan has been given the power by God to do evil but does that mean he has the Holy Spirit in him? Most definitely not!

As for Matthew 10:20, Jesus was prophesying the persecution the apostles were going to face and if one will recall, Judas committed suicide just after Christ was hung on the tree.

No child of God who's born of the Spirit will ever take his own life like Judas did, proving that Judas never was born of the Spirit.
---christan on 12/5/11


2 Corinthians 1:7
And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation.

1 Peter 4:13
But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings, that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:


Suffering is not an option, or choice.
---kathr4453 on 12/5/11


2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:


2 Timothy 3:12
Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

Philippians 3:10
That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death,

Suffering is not an option or choice.
---kathr4453 on 12/5/11




I give you power!

Luk_10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

Joh_7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given, because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Joh 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

Act_1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
---TheSeg on 12/5/11


Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come.
And let him that heareth say, Come.
And let him that is athirst come.
And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Peace!
---TheSeg on 12/5/11


So Yes, it appears salvation and inheritance ARE salvation.

That how I understand it too. All saved have an inheritance with Christ.

All Saved ARE sanctified.

All Saved DO suffer with Christ

All saved WILL reign and rule with Christ.

If there is no testing or suffering YOU ARE NOT SAVED.

God tests every Saint and every Saint SUFFERS with Christ.

If your not suffering with Christ...check to make sure you are in the faith.

Now rewards is not inheritance.
---kathr4453 on 12/5/11


Ephesians 1:13,14
"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth,
the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed,
ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest
of our inheritance
until the redemption of the purchased possession,
unto the praise of his glory."




JamesL, please read the above scripture to understand what inheritance means re salvation. We are not rewarded with the Holy Spirit as a reard for good deeds.

If you don't have the Holy Spirit you're not saved!


BUT Paul further clarifies that the Inheritance is given to those who are SANCTIFIED by faith in Christ. .
---kathr4453 on 12/5/11


\\James, you are complicating Salvation now. When you...say the inheritance and rewards are salvation. They are not salvation.\\
---Mark_V. on 12/5/11

Hebrews 1:14
Are not all angels spirits in the divine service, sent to serve for the sake of those who will INHERIT SALVATION ?

Rom 8:17
We are CO-HEIRS with Christ "IF" we suffer with Him

2Tim 2:12
"IF" we ENDURE, we will also reign with Him

Matt 10:22
He who ENDURES to the end will be "saved"

Care to explain?

Oh yeah, I mean from scripture, not just making an empty assertion.

I am not complicating salvation. YOU are over-simplifying it, Mark
---James_L on 12/5/11


and now Mat 10:20 in context:
Matthew 10:17-20 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues,..And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles...But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak...For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
When did Judas get delivered up?...brought before the governors and kings?
---micha9344 on 12/5/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Debt Relief


Show us the verse that declared Judas "received the power of the holy spirit".
---christan on 12/5/11
Matthew 10:1 And when he had called unto [him] his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.
Matthew 10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but THE SPIRIT OF YOUR FATHER which speaketh in you
---francis on 12/5/11


Yes, just as a person can choose to leave their married spouse. It really is a matter of commitment. Are we committed to our first love, namely, Jesus? Or are we drifting away from him into the world, becoming worldly and colder, and do not spend much time with him any more? Are we doing his will 24/7, or are we doing some other will? When he comes again, will he find faith on earth? Blessed are they when he comes and finds them so doing: for if they would have known in what hour the King would come they would have been ready. Live for Jesus, and you will have salvation. Put him first in all things, and he will direct your paths. Build your life upon the Rock, Jesus Christ the sure foundation, and not upon any thing else which is sinking sand.
---Eloy on 12/5/11


Korah was "cut off" will he be in heaven?
Nadab and Abihu Priests of God were "cut off" will they be in heaven also?

Romans 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity, but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

The natural branches which were " cut off" will they be in heaven also?

Likewise those gentile who may be "also cut off" will they be in heaven also?

In this context those who are "cut off" will not be saved.
---francis on 12/5/11


JUDAS - "Ordained by Jesus, received the power of the holy ghost to cast out demons and heal the sick, promised a throne in heaven to judge Israel" francis

Show us the verse that declared Judas "received the power of the holy spirit". Rather Jesus declared, "that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition, that the scripture might be fulfilled."

Acts 4:28 declares that the wicked act of crucifying Jesus was the very will of God, "For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.", one had better believe Judas was created a vessel of dishonor fitted for destruction.
---christan on 12/5/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Debt Settlement


Francis, your questions are good. James_L, I hardly think Judas killed hmself because he lost his inheritance. Can one really betray Christ and only lose their inheritance? Well, lets all look at the 5000 Jesus fed in John 6. They all believed in Jesus, and wanted to make Him KING right then...YET left when Jesus stated to believe REALLY MEANT to eat His Flesh and drink His Blood...meaning GOING THROUGH THE CROSS. THEY LEFT and grumbled. Jesus asked His Desciples "WILL YOU BETRAY ME TOO", also referring to Judas. Read the WHOLE Chapter.

MarkV insists OT Saints went THROUGH the Cross(eat my flesh and drink my blood) for salvation resulting in being BORN AGAIN/NEW BIRTH.
---kathr4453 on 12/5/11


JamesL, what I find really dangerous about your comments are:
!. you can receive Jesus Christ, Grab your justification and live like hell, and only lose your rewards...CALLED CHEAP GRACE.

James makes it CLEAR that Justification also results in a continued life of OBEDIENCE, and our obedience is what PROVES our Justification is in fact REAL!

MarkV insisting OT Saints were Born Again/ NEW CREATURES leads those to believe one can lose their salvation, and has no understanding, or minimizes the importance of WHY Jesus Died and rose again.

If OT Saints were Born Again or received the New Birth Jesus didn't need to Die or rise again at all!
---kathr4453 on 12/5/11


francis, you can produce implicit statements, but it will not be fact. Only explicit statements are facts. It's pretty simple,
If you do not have faith in the promises and works of Christ on the Cross, that tells me you have not been born of the Spirit. All who are born of the Spirit are granted faith to believe in the Works of Christ and the promises of God. If you believe you can lose what God has done for you, you have no faith. It is a matter of faith.
John 5:24 is pretty clear. Jesus said,
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life, he does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life"
Has "Passed" But you do not believe.
---Mark_V. on 12/5/11


Conclusion:

SO to resolve this issue, we need to understand WHAT salvation is... Romans states If you believe in your heart God raised Jesus from the dead, thou shall be saved.

1st Cor 15:1-4 again give the whole Gospel in a nut shell.

We are Justified by HIS BLOOD and saved BY HIS RISEN LIFE.

Again, were OT Saints Born Again-NEW CREATURES by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead?...

NO, NO, NO!.

When that finally sinks in...maybe just maybe all this arguing will cease.

Why is the New Covenant so much BETTER. WHO brough tin the New Covenant? HOW did Jesus bring in the New Covenant.


And NO MarkV, the New Covenant was NOT in effect until Jesus ROSE from the dead!
---kathr4453 on 12/5/11


Shop For Church Furniture


James, you are complicating Salvation now. When you said,
" and scripture also teaches that our salvation can be lost" and turn around and say the inheritance and rewards are salvation. They are not salvation. They are what you get if you are saved at the Judgment Seat of Christ. You can lose rewards but you can never lose salvation because you lost rewards. If you are at the Judgment Seat of Christ it is because you are already saved. If you don't have many rewards it does not mean you are sent to the "Great White Throne of Judgment" Only unbelievers goes there to be judge.
---Mark_V. on 12/5/11


Mark V,

I don't think you read my post correctly. I said

"Our justification and regeneration can never be forfeited."

and I also said

"But our inheritance and rewards can be forfetied."

You are quoting passages which speak of justification (apples), which cannot be lost

while francis is quoting passages which speak of inheritance (oranges), which can be lost

Francis is quoting corectly about being "cut off" but wrongly assumes the only way to lose is to go to hell

Did Moses get "cut off" from an inheritance? yes

Did he go to hell? no
---James_L on 12/4/11


Joh_7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given, because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
---TheSeg on 12/4/11


Besides the many scriptures which tell us that if we return to sin that we will be lost / cut off, there are also examples.

Consider the man JUDAS:
Ordained by Jesus, receive dthe power of the holy ghost to cast out demons and heal the sick, promised a throne in heaven to judge israel,

He sinned and never repented, will be be in the kingdom of God?

Saul the lord's annointed, will he be in the kingdom?

Balaam the prophet of God will he be in the kingdom?

Many examples of people who had been given the gift of the holy ghost and turned to sin

If we ourselve turn to sin and do not repent we will not be saved.

REMEMBER THAT SALBVATION is
being saved from THE WAGES OF SIN
---francis on 12/4/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Distance Learning


That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see, therefore your sin remaineth.

Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
---TheSeg on 12/4/11


1 Corinthians 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea,

1 Corinthians 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea,

1 Corinthians 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat,

1 Corinthians 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

1 Corinthians 10:5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

1 Corinthians 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
---francis on 12/4/11


He enables some of the lost by bringing them to spiritual life (rebirth) not only to see and hear, but understand and believe the gospel truth. What the person does in the flesh is respond to what is already Truth. That's the evidence of a spiritual rebirth.
---Mark_V. on 12/3/11

JackB, what markV fails to see here is that the Holy Spirit didn't die and rise again. IF what MarkV says here is true, there was no need for Jesus death and resurrection, or being SAVED BY HIS RISEN LIFE...aka Born Again.

Markv doctrine assures many will fall away never coming THROUGH the Cross, but only to the cross.
---kathr4453 on 12/4/11


If one believes that the righteousness of Christ has been imputed to the believer, then what alternative is there except to believe that our salvation is secure?

Salvation is then totally of God, not of ourselves.

Matthew 19:25-26 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished, saying, Who then can be saved? But Jesus looked at them and said, With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.
---lee1538 on 12/4/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Education


Mark, my apologies I believe I missunderstood your initial commments on the Jesus delays thread. I will read more carefully in future.
---Warwick on 12/4/11


James, I also believe you are wrong when you say,

"Mark V,
You and your opponents are arguing apples versus oranges because scripture declares that our salvation can never be lost, and scripture also teaches that our salvation can be lost."


James, it is not apples and oranges. Jesus declared, that a person has to be born again to enter the kingdom of heaven. And since it is most important aspect of salvation, you should be able to provide one passage where God said, if you don't do something, you lose your spiritual rebirth, or become unregenerate again. There should be many if you are right. If you can, I will apologize to you and francis.
---Mark_V. on 12/4/11


Not your law about Saturday Sabbath.
---Mark_V. on 12/2/11

Mark
I have posted part of the comment you made to me.
When you say "Your Law about Saturday Sabbath" That tells people that I believe in Saturday Sabbath, and if I believe in that, I would naturally teach that. True?

That's your M.O. Mark.
When you have nothing constructive to say, you tear down those you disagree with by telling lies about them. And when someone tells lies, they are a liar. Look it up in the dictionary if you don't believe me.
---David on 12/4/11


He enables some of the lost by bringing them to spiritual life (rebirth) not only to see and hear, but understand and believe the gospel truth. What the person does in the flesh is respond to what is already Truth. That's the evidence of a spiritual rebirth.
---Mark_V. on 12/3/11

Part 2,



The New Birth,AKA Born Again comes when WE identify with Jesus in death and resurrection life.

So is the POWER of the Gospel/WORD as the Holy Spirit convicts the unregenerate,NOW being redefined by some as "rebirth". The Ministry of the Holy Spirit to convict of sin isn't what SAVES YOU or called REBIRTH in scripture. JESUS SAVES AKA New Birth. !The last man Adam is that life giving Spirit.
---kathr4453 on 12/4/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Home Equity Loans


Ezekiel 18:26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them, for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die. When the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is LAWFUL AND RIGHT, he shall save his soul alive.

contrast is between the righteous and wicked, not selfrighteous and wicked. Righteousness is doing what is lawful and right

Ezekiel 18:26 When a righteous man turneth away from doing what is lawful and right, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them, for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous
---francis on 12/3/11


David, I believe you get angry with someone disagrees with you because you cannot believe someone could be right and you be wrong.
You can call me names if it makes you feel better, but I never said that you were a teacher of anything. Put your spiritual eyes on when you read and answer. I explained that the commandments you mentioned were not the Ten Commandments or the Moasic Law. Hello. Call me names and throw me with stones, if that is how you feel.
---Mark_V. on 12/3/11


francis, again you are mistaken by the messege in Ezek. 18:24 as Lee stated, "But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousnes and commits iniguity"
He is not talking about the righteousness of Christ, "but turns away from his righteousness" His own self-righteousness. If he is a good guy and turns to iniquity.
Heb. 10:26 when people receive knowledge of the Truth and leave it behind, does not mean they were saved. They knew the Truth and step on it, there punishment will be worse then to those who never heard the Truth.
---Mark_V. on 12/3/11


Mark V,
You and your opponents are arguing apples versus oranges because scripture declares that our salvation can never be lost, and scripture also teaches that our salvation can be lost.

Either the Holy Spirit is confused, or there are various aspects of salvation.

Our justification and regeneration can never be forfeited.

But our inheritance and rewards can be forfetied.

And scripture calls ALL of those 'salvation'

Get in the same orchard, and on the same tree, or else you will always be bringing oranges to an apple fight
---James_L on 12/3/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Interest Rates


He enables some of the lost by bringing them to spiritual life (rebirth) not only to see and hear, but understand and believe the gospel truth. What the person does in the flesh is respond to what is already Truth. That's the evidence of a spiritual rebirth.
---Mark_V. on 12/3/11


MarkV, there is no such doctrine as rebirth in scripture. Rebirth or NEW BIRTH? Do you know the difference? These are entirely two different animals.

After we receive Jesus Christ we are Born Again AKA NEW BIRTH. No one is given a NEW BIRTH before receiving Christ.

You unfortunately associate regeneration with rebirth.

Rebirth is hindu/reincarnation stuff. Not at all NEW BIRTH.


You are not teaching TRUTH!
---kathr4453 on 12/3/11


Consider Judas:
GIVEN POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT OF DEVLS AND DISEASE

Luke 9:1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.

PROMISED A THRONE IN THE KINGDOM TO JUDGE ISRAEL
Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

DID HE LOSE IT, OR DO WE EXPECT JUDAS TO BE SITTING IN JUDGMENT OF ISRAEL?
---francis on 12/3/11


Samuel, in your salvation you imply that works saves. No matter how you put it or explain it, you come out with works as the cause of salvation. Works is the evidence of salvation. You said,
" actually agree with what you say here. I just disagre that GOD forces us to be saved. Those who abhor sin will go to heaven. Those who practice the belief that you can still love and practice sin will not go to heaven"
God forces no one. He enables some of the lost by bringing them to spiritual life (rebirth) not only to see and hear, but understand and believe the gospel truth. What the person does in the flesh is respond to what is already Truth. That's the evidence of a spiritual rebirth.
---Mark_V. on 12/3/11


I read what Jesus said in (v.21). Is that the Gospel?
---Mark_V. on 12/2/11

Yes Mark,
Jesus Christ is still the Truth, and you are still a liar.
You say I teach all these things when I have never taught any of them.
Why do you have to lie about me?
I don't teach Sabbath Law.
I don't teach Mosaic Law.
I do teach the Law of Christ, those Laws writen on our hearts which tell us how to Love God and how to Love our neighbor. (Romans 2:14-15)
Do you show Love to God, or to me, when you tell lies?

Mark, I would love to teach you how Gospels of Christ and the letters of Paul work together, and do not oppose each other as they do under your doctrine.
---David on 12/3/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Internet Marketing


I believe the scripture supports the view that the believer is born spiritually by the Holy Spirit (John 3:3) and in regeneration acquires a new nature that abhors sin or disobedience.

Again, I hold the view that salvation is wholly of God from start to finish. Eph. 2:8-10 lee1538

I actually agree with what you say here. I just disagre that GOD forces us to be saved. Those who abhor sin will go to heaven. Those who practice the belief that you can still love and practice sin will not go to heaven.
---Samuel on 12/2/11


Samuel //So it seems that Me accepting JESUS as my Saviour and trusting him alone for Salvation is not good enough.

This describes the salvation by works soteriology by Adventism.

Romans 4:4-8 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but trusts him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works: Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,whose sins are covered, blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.

If you seek to obey laws,you can glory in your own righteousness, not in the righteousness of Christ.
---lee1538 on 12/2/11


The truth is Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice. Those rejecting that sacrifice and return to sacrificing animals, observing the Jewish Sabbath, etc. will not have no more sacrifice for their sins.(9:26)
---lee1538

So it seems that Me accepting JESUS as my Saviour and trusting him alone for Salvation is not good enough. I have to break the fourth commandment to get into heaven. But is not having to do a work to get into heaven righteouness by works which I and the Bible is opposed to.

I have heard people who say once saved always that they can commit any sin and still go to heaven. So Lee you do not believe OSAS?
---Samuel on 12/2/11


If you can lose your salvation, how?
---micha9344 on 12/1/11

Jesus told Nicodemus that unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God and that which is born of flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

So, if you have been born again, and born of the Spirit, how does that "spirit" part of you die?

Answer, it never does. It is the eternal life that God has given you by accepting Jesus. It never ends and God never takes it back. It is the free gift of God.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/2/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Life Insurance


David, again, I have no clue what Bible you are reading. You speak about the gospel and then turn around and ask,
"

Look at what Jesus said in (John 14:21).
Does Jesus even hint that Gods favor is unmerited in that verse?"


I read what Jesus said in (v.21). Is that the Gospel? A passage does not a gospel make. There is no room to speak of the Gospel in one passage. What about the few words that Jesus said? Why mention grace if He is speaking about people who love Him? Who are the people who Love Him? Believers who are obedient. He didn't say The Moasic Law. He didn't even mention the Ten Commandments. Keeping His commandments is been obedient to His commandments. Not your law about Saturday Sabbath.
---Mark_V. on 12/2/11


Francis -Ezekiel 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, ...shall he live?

John 6:26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?"

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

The truth is Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice. Those rejecting that sacrifice and return to sacrificing animals, observing the Jewish Sabbath, etc. will not have no more sacrifice for their sins.(9:26)
---lee1538 on 12/2/11


You may tell your child what will happen if he or she runs out into heavy speeding traffic. But will you let your child actually do that?

While you have your dearly loved child resting on your lap, do you two spend much time talking about how your child could lose you and no longer be your child?

Isaiah 55:11 says God's word "shall accomplish" what He pleases. The warnings "shall" succeed in accomplishing what God intends (c: John says His word is succeeding > "as He is, so are we in this world." (in 1 John 4:17) If you are "as He is", how can you turn to Satan????
---Bill_willa6989 on 12/2/11


If you can lose your salvation, how?
---micha9344 on 12/1/11
Ezekiel 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, [and] doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked [man] doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
---francis on 12/2/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Make Money


Jesus never told the disciples that they were "Christians." He called them His disciples.

Pastors and anointed men of God who truly flow in the anointing are no longer calling people "Christians" or non-Christians.

They are using the word REGENERATED or unregenerated.

Be Transformed by the renewing of your mind. Unless a man be born again, he cannot "see" the Kingdom of God.

So the question is: Are you REGENERATED? TRANSFORMED? By the Word of God? Changed into His Image?

If people think they can lose their salvation I question whether or not they had it in the first place. Amen?
---anon on 12/2/11


How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?
And if so be that he find it

There is not one creature that is not manifest in his sight.
But all things are naked and opened.

And Jesus answering said, Were there not ten cleansed? but where are the nine?
There are not found that returned to give glory to God, save this stranger.

And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there shall they be called the children of the living God.

HardToBelieve
---TheSeg on 12/2/11


Why does the Bible contain so many warnings if it is not possible for us to lose our salvation?

The sad truth?
Many churches stopped following the Bible years ago. They teach a doctrine with no foundation. The Gospels of Jesus Christ do not support many of them.
However, if those who believe in the do nothing doctrines live their lives in accordance to those commandments God has written on their hearts, they might be saved.
If you believe Gods Grace is unmerited, odds of Salvation are just not very good.

Look at what Jesus said in (John 14:21).
Does Jesus even hint that Gods favor is unmerited in that verse? Follow Jesus, or some silly doctrine that is against Jesus.
It's Your choice.

---David on 12/2/11


Peter, I love that you ask questions and when you said,
"for many may find at the end that their position is not what they thought"
That's so true and the reason I continue to answer because there's people who have the wrong gospel. R.C Sproul says, there's people who are not saved but confidently believe they are save. These people have assurance of salvation without salvation. Their assurance is a wrong assurance. Because it is possible to have a false assurance. The easiset way to have a false assurance is to have a false doctrine of salvation. For example if a person holds to a universalist view of salvation, "Every person is saved, I'm a person, therefore I'm saved." That is a false doctrine of salvation.
---Mark_V. on 12/2/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Rehab Treatments


If you can lose your salvation, how?
---micha9344 on 12/1/11


Samuel //So Lee do you understand that no one can quit believing?

I believe the scripture supports the view that the believer is born spiritually by the Holy Spirit (John 3:3) and in regeneration acquires a new nature that abhors sin or disobedience.

2 Cor. 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away, behold, the new has come.

Ga 5:17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.

Again, I hold the view that salvation is wholly of God from start to finish. Eph. 2:8-10
---lee1538 on 12/1/11


So Lee do you understand that no one can quit believing? Do you understand that once you say certain words or phrases that you will be saved no matter if you stop believing or not?

If a person who says all the right words about believing hates a brother in Christ and refuses to forgive them will they be saved?
---Samuel on 12/1/11


MarkV: Your comments are good. I also feel (from reading the NT) that salvation cannot be lost.

But I was not (actually still am not) able to put my finger on exactly which passages make me believe that!

Ina way, the question in irrelevant - for many may find at the end that their position is not what they thought (even though it was always what they learn at the end!)

Thanks for all your help! Blessings
---Peter on 12/1/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Stocks


It's hard to believe God, isn't it? Without faith!
I see this as the first mistake Adam made. Gen_3:10
It looks like God immediately corrected him. Gen_3:11

Heb_4:13 says:
There is not one creature that is not manifest in his sight.
But all things are naked and opened.

I wish I could make you believe you're going to heaven.
But you guys make me cry: Luk_16:31 which is Christ!
Joh_5:44? Has God not proved himself?
Joh_3:16-21!
Someone once asks is faith and belief the same. I said no!
One is so much strong than the other.
Peter walked on water, till he doubted.
Don't let anyone put you under this condemnation.
To doubt God saved you is to doubt God and believe devils!
God's Peace
---TheSeg on 12/1/11


Peter, the life of a Christian is soley by faith. Faith in the Word of God, Faith in the Gospel of Christ, faith in the promises of God. Old Testament saints were saved by grace through faith the same as us.
Our salvation, it comes not from one passage, but the whole gospel. We believe by faith, "For by a single offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified" Heb. 10:14). "The Lord will rescue me from every evil and save me for His heavenly kingdom. To Him be glory for ever and ever Amen" 2 Tim. 4:18).
"For you have died, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory" Col. 3:3,4).
---Mark_V. on 12/1/11


Francis //the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

John 3:16 For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.

WOW so those who believe will not perish but have everlasting life.

Francis do you believe what God's word says?

Your problem is that you try to prove what you believe but ignore those verses that speak otherwise.


---lee1538 on 12/1/11


2 Timothy 2:19 ...
--Some people think the Lord doesn't know, but He does.
***

OF COURSE GOD knows who are HIS however free will allows people to reject ...those who keep LIVING in sin do not repent AFTER conversion put themselves in danger of being a SINNER ...why Apostles were inspired to remind True Believers if we bring back a Believer who turned from truth to living as a sinner again we cover a multitude of sins for ourselves James 5:19-20

arrogant deceptive teaching by false ministers today TEACH big LIE ones salvation is "assured" by misquoting verses LIKE 2Tim 2:19 deceiving many to follow their misunderstanding of ONE VERSE while they deliberately reject verses stating one can loose their salvation
---Rhonda on 12/1/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Diabetes


2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
--Some people think the Lord doesn't know, but He does.
---micha9344 on 12/1/11


HERE IS THE WARNING IN JUDE
If we could not lose our salvation why the warning?

Jude 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

WOW so we can lose this salvation
---francis on 12/1/11


Mark 'No one can lose salvation if they are truely saved by God'

It seems most likely, but I have not been able to find a complete statement that losing salvation is impossible.

We are told that He keep and protects us, watches over us. But does the Bible specifically state it's impossible to lose salvation?

If you cuold help me, I'd be most grateful!

Thanks, and blessings
---Peter on 12/1/11


false christianity (2Corin 11:4) many lying ministers of Satan teaching CONTRARY to Holy Scripture duping many to believe lies their salvation is today and they are "all set" - unsupported by Scripture and contradicts Christ who said MANY would call on HIS name in VAIN

TRUTH is salvation is a gift from God today we are forgiven for past sins and living a life of TRUE repentance is forsaking the world and its ways to live walk follow obey Christ and that has enormous responsibilities to overcome for the future REWARD of salvation and eternal life ...unlike lying ministers teaching salvation reward is now

Holy Scripture is CLEAR one can loose their salvation James 5:19,20
---Rhonda on 12/1/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Depression


I believe the Bible teaches us to constantly examine ourselves (our desires, our thoughts, our deeds) to make sure of our salvation.

But once our spirit agrees with the Holy Spirit that we are children of God, then I believe these verses apply to us:

John 10:27-29 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me, and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Fathers hand. I and the Father are one.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/1/11


Christian,
I do not believe 1st Cliff's was mocking or making light of salvation rather I believe it was a comment on the endless cycle of this question being asked over and over with the ensuing arguments being rehashed time and again. Let the games begin indeed.
---Bruce5656 on 12/1/11


Jack, No one can lose salvation if they are truely saved by God. The Bible has so many warnings because that is the method God uses to preserves us, through His Word. You are not just saved and left to yourself, He continues to teach you so that you know how to live your life in Christ. That is how a beliver is sanctified through his life. And since the believer remains in the flesh, he will fail many times. But we know, by faith in His Word that God is always there, either to chastine you and get you back in line, or take away you physical life if you go too far. Only those who are truely saved have eternal life. Only those who are His sheep, because only they can hear His voice.
---Mark_V. on 12/1/11


"Let the games begin." ????

Making light of salvation is a mere confession of how dark one's heart is to the Word of God. Salvation is ETERNAL life and condemnation is eternal death. Sound like a game?

Warnings issued in the Holy Scripture is simple, eg, for one to "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." something very special must occur first. And that something is when, "it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."

That is, no one can fear God unless He through His mercy and grace works in the sinner. Many can profess to be a Christian but Paul declared, "The Lord knoweth them that are His." 2 Timothy 2:19
---christan on 11/30/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Bible Study


Cluny, AMEN ! !


JackB, which aspect of "salvation" are you talking about? There are some which can be lost, and some which cannot be.

Justification, sanctification, resurrection, inheritance, rewards are all referred to as salvation in the NT

Each is attained through varying means, and each is only as secure as the amount of involvement a man has in it.

That's why Paul said we are saved by grace through faith, and not of works. Yet he also instructed us to work out our own salvation.

And the bible says that everyone will be saved, but also said some will perish. And that all Israel will be saved.

And that's why we are saved, but salvation is nearer now than when we beleved.
---James_L on 11/30/11


There's a great deal of difference between what most people here mean by 'being saved" and what the Bible means by "being saved."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/30/11


You got my vote Jack B, Let the games begin!!!
---1st_cliff on 11/30/11


Copyright© 1996-2015 ChristiaNet®. All Rights Reserved.