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Seal Of The Holy Spirit

Does the seal of the Holy Spirit guarantee the believers eternal salvation? Ephesians 1:13

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 ---lee1538 on 12/3/11
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lee1538 on 12/13/11

I NEVER said that the early church was all Roman catholic

i said that by your logic ( that the majority of christians were keeping sunday by 135 AD, thus we should be keeping sunday and not sabbath) That we should all be Roman Catholic since the majority of " christians" are Roman catholic

So let me say it slowly for you to understand

If the majority is right, then we should go with the majority which is Roman catholic
---francis on 12/13/11


If you knew church history you would easy have to acknowledge that.. the primarily power in the church was the Patriarch, not the Bishop of Rome.

---lee1538 on 12/13/11

Where in the world are you getting your false history?

Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church (Eerdmans, 1910) --

" Rome was equally sought as a commanding position by heretics and theosophic jugglers, as Simon Magus, Valentine, Marcion, Cerdo, and a host of others. No wonder, then, that the bishops of Rome at an early date were looked upon as metropolitan pastors, and spoke and acted accordingly with an air of authority which reached far beyond their immediate diocese." (Schaff, volume 2, page 157)
---Ruben on 12/13/11


No. The Holy Spirit lives with a person only as long as they themself remain true to God. Obedience beings salvation, and disobedience beings condemnation.
---Eloy on 12/13/11


Francis//By your logic we should all be Roman Catholic, because majority of Christians are Roman Catholic
---
That is the false premise that you and olde Ellen White made, namely that the early church was all Roman Catholic. It was NOT and the Roman Church by 135 A.D. was very small, under persecution and had no real influence on other churches of the Empire.

If you knew church history you would easy have to acknowledge that when Constantine moved the capital to Constantinople in the 4th century, the primarily power in the church was the Patriarch, not the Bishop of Rome.

No wonder the Adventist church keeps people from learning Church history as practically nothing in history supports their non-biblical beliefs.
---lee1538 on 12/13/11


//Lee: "The early church was very careful to teach what the Apostles taught them."

jerry6593 //Yep! That's why they taught the Seventh-day Sabbath EXCLUSIVELY. Even if the majority became apostate (and they did), they do not have the authority to overrule God.
---
Stupid and a foolish remark on your part depicting your ignorance of church history.

all you need to do is to produce a single church father of the first or second century that supported the observance of the Jewish Sabbath. But if you tried to do that you would see none of the successors of the Apostles supported the keeping of the Jewish sabbath.

jerry, what is your motive in rejecting the truth? Is it because you want people to be led astray?
---lee1538 on 12/13/11




The very OBVIOUS POINT you miss is since the majority of Christians no longer observed the Sabbath by 135 A.D., ---lee1538 on 12/12/11

B your logic we should all be Roman catholc, because maajority of christians are roman catholic

and in the year 135 AD there was no baptist or pentecost or lutheran or calvinist
we should all be what they were
---francis on 12/13/11


Lee: "The early church was very careful to teach what the Apostles taught them."

Yep! That's why they taught the Seventh-day Sabbath EXCLUSIVELY. Even if the majority became apostate (and they did), they do not have the authority to overrule God. Neither do YOU!


---jerry6593 on 12/13/11


Francis //You have totally missed the point of his book. Today the majority of " christiabns" keep sunday, that does nor make it right. EVen ifthe majoriy of christian in 135 kept sunday according to his book. it was WRONG and a sure influence and mark of the 4th beast as given in prophecy. Who cares how long to took to get to this apostacy 10 years 135 years apostacy is apostacy!!

The very OBVIOUS POINT you miss is since the majority of Christians no longer observed the Sabbath by 135 A.D., but had communal worship on Sundays, it could only have happened if and only if the Apostles and their immediate successor did not teach Sabbath keeping.

The early church was very careful to teach what the Apostles taught them.
---lee1538 on 12/12/11


---lee1538 on 12/12/11
You have totally missed the point of his book. Today the majority of " christiabns" keep sunday, that does nor make it right. EVen ifthe majoriy of christian in 135 kept sunday according to his book. it was WRONG and a sure influence and mark of the 4th beast as given in prophecy. Who cares how long to took to get to this apostacy 10 years 135 years apostacy is apostacy!!

SAM B is ONE of many many SDA scholars read Sabbath Roots: The African Connection, by Charles E. Bradford

I have pointed out in many blogs several shadows with BIBLICAL TEXT like passover 1 Corinthians 5:7 Christ our passover

I CHALLENGE YOU TO FIND ONE THAT SAYS CHRIST OUR SABBATH IN THE NT
---francis on 12/12/11


Francis //Ever wonder why Samuele Bacchiocchi remained a SDA even after saying that this apostacy STARTED about 135 AD?
---
While there were several purges of SDA theologians, pastors, and laypeople during the 1980's it is indeed a miracle that Bacchiocchi survived.

Perhaps he was simply too influential as a theologian & church historian at Andrews University for them to deal with without a lot of controversy. The SDA church lost thousands of members in their battle against other prominent SDA scholars.

OTOH, his conclusion was the Roman Church ordered the keeping of Sunday, the Christian Sabbath as by this time, the church was still in a battle against the Judaizers that Jewish law need be followed by the church.
---lee1538 on 12/12/11




//What Samuele Bacchiocchi is saying is that it took 135 years for this APOSTACY to take place and the prophecy fulfilled.

He does acknowledge as fact that the majority of Christians no longer observed the Sabbath by 135 A.D.

And that could only have happened if the Apostles & their immediate successors did not teach Sabbath observance. The Roman church did not have any real powers by this date to change anything.

I believe the Bible truly teaches that the Sabbath was but a shadow of the rest in Christ believers enter into (Hebrews 4).
---lee1538 on 12/12/11


what do you think the showbread represented? what do you think sabbath represents?
---aka on 12/11/

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life:
John 6:41 I am the bread which came down from heaven.

Cannot find an "I AM" statement like that about the sabbath
---francis on 12/12/11


francis, again you bob and weave. you asked for examples, and i gave it.
---aka on 12/12/11


And that is also the contention of Samuele Bacchiocchi, a prominent SDA church historian. He claimed the majority of Christian no longer observed the Jewish Sabbath by 135 A.D. (~100 years after the Cross).

And why?
---lee1538 on 12/11/11
What Samuele Bacchiocchi is saying is that it took 135 years for this APOSTACY to take place and the prophecy fulfilled

Daniel 7:23 The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, And he shall think to change times and laws:

If sunday was a teaching of the bible why would it take 135 years for them to obey God?

Ever wonder why Samuele Bacchiocchi remainsed a SDA even after saying that this apostacy STARTED about 135 AD?
---francis on 12/12/11


Lee: "Obviously since there was no objections [sic] to not observing the Sabbath"

Where do you get that? Obviously not from the Bible. Just another of you man-made, non-biblical doctrines, no doubt.

History is not on your side:

"From the apostle's time until the Council of Laodicea [354 AD], the holy observation of the Jew's Sabbath continued, as may be proved out of many authors: yea, notwithstanding the decree of the council against it." John Ley, Sunday a Sabbath, London, 1640.
---jerry6593 on 12/12/11


Jerry //You have admitted that Jesus and ALL Christians kept the seventh-day Sabbath exclusively for at least 100 years after the cross.

And that is also the contention of Samuele Bacchiocchi, a prominent SDA church historian. He claimed the majority of Christian no longer observed the Jewish Sabbath by 135 A.D. (~100 years after the Cross).

And why?

Obviously since there was no objections to not observing the Sabbath, it was not required of Gentile believers by the Apostles & their immediate successors.

Why can you not see that?

Has olde Ellen White & the denomination she founded blinded you to that degree?
---lee1538 on 12/11/11


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God said to keep it. After a while, man said how to keep it. ---aka on 12/11/11

Man has being doing that for years. Did you hear about the last one man said?

He said do not keep it on the 7th day, keep it on the first day because that is the day Jesus rose from the grave

Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.
---francis on 12/11/11


Jerry //Your contention that REAL Sabbath observance ended with Christianity, and is now only for Jews is ridiculous, as logic and history attest. Why don't you get some new material? That old lie is worn out.
---
What is really worn out is your fallacious (and futile)arguments that Christians need become proselytes to Judaism and are under the Old Covenant laws.

Those that read Church history can tell you that the Jewish Sabbath was no longer observed by the end of the 1st century and that most likely because the Apostles & their immediate successors did not command it of Christians.

And for those who know the Word of God, they can tell you that observance of a day does not save one as it is Jesus that is the Savior.
---lee1538 on 12/11/11


francis - it may be a joke to you, but interpretation of "sabbathical law" was handed down generationally by rabbanical priests and not God. God said to keep it. After a while, man said how to keep it. interpretation of the law was what the rabbinical priests prided themselves on i.e. thank you, God i am not like them."

not rescuing an animal on sabbath is man's interpretation...saving the lost is God's. not gathering wheat on sabbath is man's...eating with soiled hands after saving the lost is God's.

eating the showbread was prohibited by man under any circumstances. David ate and let his men eat the bread for sustenance. what do you think the showbread represented? what do you think sabbath represents?
---aka on 12/11/11


MarkV, please do not feel offended as I speak with brotherly love in Christ to you.

In the OT, God did make a covenant to Abraham. However, many cannot understand that behind the promises to Abraham, there was also a spiritual promise. Eg,

"Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him." Genesis 12:7 - the seed here refers to the nation of Israel about inheriting Canaan.

"For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever." Genesis 13:15 - the seed here refers to those by faith who are born of the Spirit, spiritual Israel inheriting heaven.

Notice God's promises never came with conditions.
---christan on 12/11/11


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kathr, the promises of God to Israel in the OT of the physical kind (flesh and blood) were mostly fulfilled in the OT. As of today, Israel and the whole world does not have peace with God unless you are born of the Spirit of God and through the blood of Christ, only the Christians have peace with God and await the coming of His Spiritual kingdom call heaven.

So, in Isaiah and all the other OT books including the NT speaks of the promise of His kingdom that's to come. All the physical promises in the OT were merely symbolic of the spiritual promise of eternal life in Christ.

Talk about broadening one's understanding of the Scripture!
---christan on 12/11/11


Lee: How long will YOU fight against the truth?

You have admitted that Jesus and ALL Christians kept the seventh-day Sabbath exclusively for at least 100 years after the cross. If the apostasy of worshipping on the pagan day of sun worship were intended by the New Testament writers, don't you think they would have mentioned it? Your contention that REAL Sabbath observance ended with Christianity, and is now only for Jews is ridiculous, as logic and history attest. Why don't you get some new material? That old lie is worn out.


---jerry6593 on 12/11/11


Promises were not given to the nation of Israel. All Abrahams seed is not going to be saved. Ishmael descendants did not receive the promises. "It is written that Abraham had two sons (his seeds) the one by a bondmaid, the other by a free woman, But he who was born of the bondwoman was born after the flesh, But he of the free woman was by promise" Gal. 4:22,23. They were born in the same society, called the same patriarch "father" and sojourned in the same encampment with him, yet Ishmael was a stranger to the Covenant, while Isaac was the heir of the promise. The same holds true in the case of Esau and Jacob, both born of the same mother, yet God said, Jacob I love Esau I hated. One became gracious the other profane.
---Mark_V. on 12/11/11


the 24/7 one? the friday sundown to saturday sundown one? for each activity that you engage in between sundown to sundown, have you gotten approval from a Rabbi?
---aka on 12/10/11

LOL that is truely funny. If it were anyone else, i would think that they were serious.
Where in the ten commandments or the bible did you read that aneone had to get aproval from a rabbi to do any sabbath activity?
---francis on 12/10/11


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Jerry//It is characteristic of false doctrine that it leads you down many false and incongruous paths. You have demonstrated this by your perversion of the "entering God's rest" metaphor.
----
Metaphor or not, the fact is if observance of the Jewish Sabbath has been imposed onto the Church, we would certainly see it commmanded in the New Testament especially in the Epistles as well as in the teachings of the early church but we do NOT.

There really cannot be any other conclusion reached rather than that the sabbath was not mandated to the church.

Sorry, the false doctrine has been with the Adventism movement which started with a false interpretation of scripture.

How long will you fight against the truth?
---lee1538 on 12/10/11


"Only one kind of sabbath is found in the Ten Commandments - the weekly one." ---jerry6593 on 12/8/11

the 24/7 one? the friday sundown to saturday sundown one? for each activity that you engage in between sundown to sundown, have you gotten approval from a Rabbi?

---aka on 12/10/11


"But VERY physical Isaiah 65:21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit [them], and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them." francis

You seem to be looking forward to an earthly kingdom that God has already fulfilled with Israel back in the OT. The prophesy in Isaiah was pointing to the promise of heaven and not earth.

---christan on 12/9/11


God has NOT fulfilled the Promises given to Israel the Nation. WHEN did Jesus come back again after His resurrection to take the Throne of David? Are you actually saying God's throne in heaven is names after a mortal man?

When did a baby ever die at 100?

WHEN has the whole earth ever been at Rest?

When did a Lion lay down with a lamb?
---kathr4453 on 12/10/11


--christan on 12/9/11
Psalms 37:11 But the meek shall inherit the earth, Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

So I am looking forward to living in the new earth which God have created for human habitation.

Revelation 21: And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven,..the tabernacle of God is with men,(ON EARTH)

I look forward to: Isaiah 65:21 building houses, and inhabiting them, and planting vineyards, and eating the fruit of them.

Isaiah 66:22 the new earth, from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, coming to worship before God

I also loook forward to heaven
---francis on 12/9/11


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Lee: "Those who believe in Christ have entered into that rest depicted by God at Creation"

It is characteristic of false doctrine that it leads you down many false and incongruous paths. You have demonstrated this by your perversion of the "entering God's rest" metaphor. There are several metaphors that prefigure the eternal rest with God in heaven, including Israel's entering into Cannan.

---jerry6593 on 12/10/11


"But VERY physical Isaiah 65:21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit [them], and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them." francis

You seem to be looking forward to an earthly kingdom that God has already fulfilled with Israel back in the OT. The prophesy in Isaiah was pointing to the promise of heaven and not earth.

And to prove how wrong you are, Jesus promised the Christians, "In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you." John 14:2.

God's kingdom is spiritual and you are seeking for things that are perishable instead of eternal.
---christan on 12/9/11


Put those verses in context, francis, and they will mean different than what you place into them.
---micha9344 on 12/9/11
The lake of fire which destoyes the wicked occurs when the NJ comes down with the saints in it. The saints safely in the NJ bare witness to the destruction of the wicked
Malachi 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do [this], saith the LORD of hosts

francis, does NJ Mean New Jersey? (( Just kidding)
---kathr4453 on 12/9/11
only to those who live in NY
---francis on 12/9/11


Put those verses in context, francis, and they will mean different than what you place into them.
---micha9344 on 12/9/11


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The text says that 1: the righteous will be in the new earth and will come to the NJ every sabbath BUT the wicked will be destroyed and the righteous will be a witness to the death fo the wicked.
Malachi 4:3 ---francis on 12/9/11


francis, does NJ Mean New Jersey? (( Just kidding)
---kathr4453 on 12/9/11


---christan on 12/9/11
SPIRITUAL in the sense that righteous will dwell perfectly
But VERY physical Isaiah 65:21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit [them], and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.

---lee1538 on 12/9/11
The text says that 1: the righteous will be in the new earth and will come to the NJ every sabbath BUT the wicked will be destroyed and the righteous will be a witness to the death fo the wicked.
Malachi 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do [this], saith the LORD of hosts.

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire
---francis on 12/9/11


"why did you not finish the statement about the new heavens and new earth?" francis

Isn't it a given that the new earth and heavens in Isaiah 66 is speaking of the spiritual kingdom of God? His eternal kingdom?

It's a kingdom that no flesh and blood can dwell in. Why? Because God is Spirit and the new earth and heavens will indeed be spiritual.

An again, in God's eternal kingdom, there's no more time. But you in your carnal mind still think that there's a new moon and month. You are totally blind to what eternal even means.

Let the dictionary help you, "without beginning or end, lasting forever, always existing (opposed to temporal): eternal life.", meaning NO MORE TIME!
---christan on 12/9/11


Will there be dead bodies in the New Earth?

As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me, declares the LORD, so will your name and descendants endure. From one New Moon to another and from one [week] to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me, says the LORD. And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me, their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.

It appears that the New Earth is something different than the eternal heaven. So will there be a sabbath observance in heaven? NO
---lee1538 on 12/9/11


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"from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD." To me this has simply meant ALWAYS. FROM and TO, being all inclusive.
---Chria9396 on 12/9/11
It does not mean always
See revealtions: Revelation 22:2 the tree of life, which bare twelve [manner of] fruits, and yielded her fruit every month:

There are specific time period when everyone must come to the new jerusalem.
Apart from that we will live in our houses built OUTSIDE of jerusalem
---francis on 12/9/11


"from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD." To me this has simply meant ALWAYS. FROM and TO, being all inclusive.
---Chria9396 on 12/9/11


--christan on 12/8/11
why did you not finish the statement about the new heavens and new earth?

Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

also see a reference in Revelations
Revelation 22:2 the tree of life, which bare twelve [manner of] fruits, and yielded her fruit every month:

The Isiaih reference to the new moon is a reference to the new month when all come to Jeruslaem to partake of the tree of life

in the kingdom made new we will have the sabbath Just as God had in Eden before sin, and the tree oflife just as God had in Eden before sin
---francis on 12/9/11


francis, you must really be blind. You quote Scriptures and you do not even understand what it is even declaring. Eg, Isaiah 66:22 says,

"For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain."

Here, Isaiah is simply declaring the coming kingdom of God, also known as eternal life. And in eternal life with God, time will cease to exist because He is eternal. Or don't you know what eternal means?
---christan on 12/8/11


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I assure you that in eternal life, there's no more time hence no more of your "sabbath day" but our worship will be complete and free worshipping Jesus Christ.
---christan on 12/8/11

THE SCRIPTURES SAY OTHERWISE
1: Isaiah 66 22-23 says that we will come to worship every SABBATH and EVERY NEW MOON so there will be sabbath

2: Revelation 22:2 the tree of life,.. yielded her fruit EVERY MONTH:
So we will have months

3:Isaiah 30:26 Moreover the LIGHT OF THE MOON shall be as the light of the sun, and the LIGHT OF THE SUN shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days,
So we will have SUN and MOON, and DAY and NIGHT in the new earth.

You are wrong AGAIN
---FRANCIS on 12/8/11


francis, Isaiah 66:22 is a prophesy of the kingdom of God that's to come, ie eternal life with Jesus Christ. And I assure you that in eternal life, there's no more time hence no more of your "sabbath day" but our worship will be complete and free worshipping Jesus Christ.

---christan on 12/8/11

Show you scripture
---francis on 12/8/11


Jerry //Only one kind of sabbath is found in the Ten Commandments - the weekly one. The others were yearly feasts which were prophecies
that have been fulfilled.

Those who believe in Christ have entered into that rest depicted by God at Creation and they have done so when they became a new creation in Christ.

Hebrews 4:3 For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said, As I swore in my wrath, They (Israel) shall not enter my rest, although his works were finished from the foundation of the world.

While Israel observed the Sabbath they did not enter into His rest.

Hebrews 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on.

Your opinions are not convincing.
---lee1538 on 12/8/11


francis, Isaiah 66:22 is a prophesy of the kingdom of God that's to come, ie eternal life with Jesus Christ. And I assure you that in eternal life, there's no more time hence no more of your "sabbath day" but our worship will be complete and free worshipping Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ is now the Christian's sabbath rest while you are still trying to rest on a particular day like the Jews. Why do you continue to wear that heavy yoke around your neck since you call yourself a Christian? And even worse still, trying to put that very heavy yoke upon others? Can't you see how much you are still under the law especially when you believe one can loose his salvation? Even after Christ said He has set us free from the curse of the law.
---christan on 12/8/11


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Cluny: "But you and jerry, like other SDAs, pick and choose which of God's sabbaths you observe.

Why?"

Only one kind of sabbath is found in the Ten Commandments - the weekly one. The others were yearly feasts which were prophecies
that have been fulfilled. Jesus ratified the keeping of the Ten Commandments in Mat 5, commanding that they not be changed while heaven and earth remain.

That's why!
---jerry6593 on 12/8/11


"For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day." Matthew 12:8, simply meaning He was the fulfilment of the sabbath.
---christan on 12/7/11
Are you really going to tell us that Jesus being LORD OF THE SABBATH is the same or even the fuklfilment of jesus being the sabbath.

Then explain why we have BOTH the sabbath and Jesus lord of the sabbath in the new earth?


Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
---francis on 12/7/11


//Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." John 3:5
---
There is the obvious spiritual blindness that characterizes cults in general as they do are devoid of God's Spirit.

Indeed the god of this world has blinded him to the truth of the Gospel.

2Cor.4:4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

.
---lee1538 on 12/7/11


New covenant, Francis...
---micha9344
THIS IS THE OLD COVENANT

Exodus 19:5 if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
Exodus 19:8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

THE OLD COVENANT WAS BROKEN WHEN THE PEOPLE DID NOT KEEP HIS LAWS

the new covenant promises a new spirit which will enable us to keep THE SAME LAWS

Ezekiel 11:19 I will put a new spirit within you,.. That they may walk in my statutes,and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.
---francis on 12/7/11


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the law of old is there to let us know our sin, how we fall short of God's commandments for us...where there is no law, the sin is not held accountable, for there is no transgression...ya'll need to read Romans 7 and 8
---john_mincey on 12/7/11


and still taking Isa 66:22-23 out of context to support a false doctrine.
---micha9344 on 12/7/11


\\Isaiah 56:3 Neither let christan, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated christan from his people: For thus saith the LORD unto christan that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant, \\

As we see here, there is MORE than one day called the sabbath, otherwise the plural would not be used.

But you and jerry, like other SDAs, pick and choose which of God's sabbaths you observe.

Why?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/7/11


francis, out of your very heart you expose the darkness that resides within when you said, "There are no (ZERO) bible verses which say that Jesus is the sabbath. The bible says jesus is the bread, the light, the lamb NEVER says Jesus is the sabbath."

For it was Christ who declared, "For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day." Matthew 12:8, simply meaning He was the fulfilment of the sabbath.

That is, going to church "faithfully" every "sabbath day" is not the way to enter the kingdom of God. Why?

"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." John 3:5
---christan on 12/7/11


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Sabbath is the Lord Jesus Christ. --christan on 12/7/11

Under the New Covenant, all believers rest on Christ. He is our Sabbath rest. ---Mark_V. on 12/7/11

1: There are no ( ZERO) bible verses which say that Jesus is the sabbath. The bible says jesus is the bread, the light, the lamb NEVER says Jesus is the sabbath

2: The bible says that in the new earth that all flesh will come before God on the sabbath to worship (Isiaih 66 22-23) So in new earth we will CONTINUE to have both Jesus and sabbath proving Jesus is NOT the sabbath

3: Psalms 37:7 Rest in the LORD, and wait patiently for him.
rest in Jesus means have faith / trust Jesus. It does not mean that Jesus has become one of the ten commandments
---francis on 12/7/11


Jer 31:31-32 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.
New covenant, Francis...
It is blasphemy to mingle the blood of Christ with the blood of lambs.
---micha9344 on 12/7/11


francis, by the wonderful grace and mercy of God, christan is at rest with his Lord of the Sabbath who is the Lord Jesus Christ. In short, the fulfillment of the Sabbath is now revealed in the person whom God calls His Son, Jesus Christ.

You can continue to rest on whatever the sabbath day you please but if you are not found in the Lord of the Sabbath who's Jesus Christ, well, there's nothing you and I can do to change God's plans. After all, I believe that salvation of the sinner has already been predestined and decided before the foundations of the world by my Father in His Son Jesus Christ.
---christan on 12/7/11


Cluny: "That means that NOBODY is saved yet."

Finally, we agree on something. It ain't over 'til it's over.
---jerry6593 on 12/7/11


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francis, Under the New Covenant, all believers rest on Christ. He is our Sabbath rest. You cannot understand that. You need to come under the New Covenant. You are still under the Covenant of works of the Law. You say you believe we are saved by grace through faith, which is the New Covenant, the New Adam, but you want to live under the Old Covenant of Works, the Old Adam.
---Mark_V. on 12/7/11


God did not exclude christan from his day of rest, nor did God exclude christan from his covenant, nor did God seperate christan from His people.
In most of the commands to rest on the sabbath the STRANGER/ NON-ISRAELITE is included:
Exodus 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou,..nor thy stranger christan that is within thy gates:
Isaiah 56:3 Neither let christan, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated christan from his people: For thus saith the LORD unto christan that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant,

If you are not a hebrew put YOUR NAME where it says STRANGER
---francis on 12/7/11


"If you are not a hebrew put YOUR NAME where it says STRANGER" francis"

Are you implying ONLY A HEBREW or JEW is going to heaven because you have rested on the Sabbath Day? Well, my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ has bad news for you,

"I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice, and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."
John 10:14-16

Not all Jews are or will be saved. It's the spiritual Jews which includes Jews and Gentiles are and will be saved.
---christan on 12/6/11


Ruben, you quote Ephesians 5:2-6 to contradict that God has already predestinated those whom He will save from eternity? Is that what you are trying to imply? If you are, let me share with you that Scripture does not contradict Scripture, period. If you hate the idea that God has predestinated, your problem is with Him.

What Ephesians 5:2-6 and the rest of Holy Bible teaches is that a sinner is saved only by the grace of God. Everyone of us fall into that category of sin mentioned, that's why the Holy Bible calls us sinners. And even if you walk a life of not sinning (which is IMPOSSIBLE), you are still not going to heaven outside the grace of God in Jesus Christ.
---christan on 12/6/11


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Lee, yes it does. The Holy Spirit guantees the believer of eternal salvation. The passage cluny gave is proof of it. The Holy Spirit is the guarantor of eternal redemption. We are spiritually redeemed right now by Christ, but our flesh is not redeemed yet, until we are glorified. The Holy Spirit in the mean time with His care of believers ( John 14:16,26: 15:26), His intellect ( 1 Cor. 2:11), feelings ( Rom. 8:27: 15:30), will ( 1 Cor. 12:11), speaking ( Acts 13:2), convicting ( John 16:8-11), interceding ( Rom. 8:26), guiding ( John 16:13) glorifing Christ ( John 16:14), and serving God (Acts 16:6,7) that's how He helps us in between now and when we are glorified, our final redemption.
---Mark_V. on 12/6/11


God did not exclude micha9344 from his day of rest, nor did God exclude micha9344 from his covenant, nor did God seperate micha9344 from His people.
In most of the commands to rest on the sabbath the STRANGER/ NON-ISRAELITE is included:
Exodus 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou,..nor thy stranger micha9344 that is within thy gates:
Isaiah 56:3 Neither let micha9344, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: For thus saith the LORD unto micha9344 that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant,

If you are not a hebrew put YOUR NAME where it says STRANGER
---francis on 12/5/11


---micha9344 on 12/5/11
To whom is God speaking?
Isaiah 56:6 ALSO the SONS OF THE STRANGER, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, EVERY ONE that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of MY COVENANT,

To whom is God speaking?
Hebrews 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the HOUSE OF ISRAEL and with the HOUSE OF JUDAH:

Strangers have ALWAYS been included in the Covenants of God

Exodus 23:12 Six days thou shalt do thy work, and on the seventh day thou shalt rest:... and THE STRANGER, may be refreshed.
---francis on 12/5/11


Exodus 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it [is] a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that [ye] may know that I [am] the LORD that doth sanctify you.
--To whom is God speaking?
Eze 20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I [am] the LORD that sanctify them.
--Who is 'them'..Maybe this will help...
Eze 20:10 Wherefore I caused them to go forth out of the land of Egypt, and brought them into the wilderness.
--Once again, it is brought to light that the day of rest established on the seventh day was to be a sign between God and Israel.
---micha9344 on 12/5/11


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When you love Jesus, you will live to please him because it is your whole desire to do so, this is salvation. But if you have any other motive or some other spirit, than it is not salvation. Recall when Jesus said, "A man had two sons: and he came to the first, and said, Son, Go Work today in my vineyard. He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went. And the man came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I Lord: but went not. Which of them did the will of the father? They say to him, The first." Mt.21:28-31.
---Eloy on 12/5/11


Interesting that Ellen White claimed that the seal of the Holy Spirit is Sabbath keeping, that sunday keepers will have the mark of the beast upon their heads.
---lee1538 on 12/5/11

Actually it is not Ellen g White
Ezekiel 20:20 And hallow my sabbaths, and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I [am] the LORD your God.

Isaiah 8:16 Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.
---francis on 12/5/11


One inherits eternal life because he has been predestinated by God to be in His Son.

---christan on 12/5/11

Ephesians 5:2-6

"1 Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children. 2 And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God. 3 But fornication and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is fitting among saints. 4 Let there be no filthiness, nor silly talk, nor levity, which are not fitting, but instead let there be thanksgiving. 5 Be sure of this, that no fornicator or impure man, or one who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God."
---Ruben on 12/5/11


The answer to your question is very simple and is found in verses 11 and 12, prior to 13,

"In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of Him who worketh all things after the counsel of His own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ."

One inherits eternal life because he has been predestinated by God to be in His Son. This is God's choice because Scripture declares, "after the counsel of His own will".

So, where's man's "free-will" in this inheritance? NO WHERE TO BE FOUND in the Scripture!
---christan on 12/5/11


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Of course
Eph. 1:15-19
Paul desired we should know the hope of His calling. One hope (Eph.4:4).

Eph. 3:6 partakers of Gods promise by the gospel.
Thess. 2:13-14 We are called by the gospel.
2 Tim. 1:9-10 -We are called to life and immortality by the gospel.
I Cor. 15:1-2 By which we are(not will be) saved
---michael_e on 12/5/11


Interesting that Ellen White claimed that the seal of the Holy Spirit is Sabbath keeping, that sunday keepers will have the mark of the beast upon their heads.

Adventists seldom will mention this fact, as it is among the other foolish things White believed in.
---lee1538 on 12/5/11


"But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him." (1 Corinthians 6:17) The Greek Bible word for "joined" is "glued". In being sealed by the Holy Spirit, we are super-glued to God, by means of His own almighty power and how this power changes us to become obedient so we do not turn away from Him and so "as He is, so are we in this world." (in 1 John 4:17) So, by changing us to become loving like Jesus, we do not fail > "Love never fails." (in 1 Corinthians 13:8)
---Bill_willa6989 on 12/4/11


UNTIL the day of redemption."

That means that NOBODY is saved yet.

Not even the people who post to these blogs.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/3/11

Amen.
---aka on 12/4/11


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"Does the seal of the Holy Spirit guarantee the believers eternal salvation? Ephesians 1:13" Yes.
"Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory." Verse 14
"Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, [is] God, who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee." 2Cr 1:21,22
"For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father.The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God." Rom 8:15,16
---josef on 12/4/11


Ephesians 1:1-14 need to be interpolated as a unified block of scripture. Blocks of scripture convey meaning, where individual verses can be ripped out of context as a pretext for false teaching. What we are dealing with is a pledge or future promise. It is analogous to a currency device called a warrant [IOU unsecured loan]where the issuer agrees to make a redemption at a time in the future based on the full faith and credit of the issuer. We are dealing with a Pledge from God the Father of your salvation at a future time, unless you think God will default on you, you have a pledge form him now that is a good as gold so I would say the answer is yes.
---Blogger9211 on 12/4/11


Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity, but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Colossians 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and [be] not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard,

We have to " continue" in the gospel in thegoodness of God and not turn back or we will be cut off
---francis on 12/3/11


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