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What Is Jesus' Real Birthdate

It seems obvious that December 25 is not the date that Christ was born. Can anyone suggest a better time. It could be done from Luke, starting from the date of Zechariah's meeting with Gabriel. I can't get a very close date (sometime in the fall, I think) - can someone else get it closer?

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 ---Peter on 12/6/11
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The rainy season falls from October to end of February in the form of storms and showers.
The temperature is normally mild and there would be plenty of grass on the hills to the east of David's royal city. There would be no reason for the flocks or shepherds not to be out. Only occasionally is there snow.
So historians and knowledgeable scholars have no reason to believe it wasn't December. Nor do they have reason to believe it wasn't another time either. Its down to personal belief.
The main thing which is getting forgotten is HE WAS BORN. How and when you celebrate that is down to you, just celebrate it.
---chris on 1/4/12


David, I will say the same to you, " your Biblical reasoning is corrupt and rotten to the core. You are corrupted by pagan ideals and apostate, antichrist believes of Charles T. Russell who followed the teachings of E.G.White."
Who suckered him in. A great guy who lied in court, dumped his wife. Another great prophet from the kingdom of the cults. Your great leader.
---Mark_V. on 1/3/12


David you say// antichrist trinitarian teachings of Christendom//
Scripture clearly tells us in 1 John & especially 2 John 1:7 what is antichrist.

Here is what is antichrist. To believe that Jesus Christ is michael the archangel.

---JIM on 1/3/12


David/Scott et al you must have missed my question"

Your New World Translation in 1961, said you should 'worship' Jesus-Hebrews 1:6. However the 1971 version says you should merely do 'obeisance to Jesus! Who changed their mind? Was it God or man?"

Take your t-i-m-e.
---Warwick on 1/2/12


MarkV- your Biblical reasoning is corrupt and rotten to the core. You are corrupted by pagan ideals and apostate, antichrist trinitarian teachings of Christendom.

Your mystery-trinity teaching denies Christ died and was resurrected. You will also continue to honour and worship your false pagan trinity deity on your pagan holy-day of December 25. Each year you will do this religiously.

Jesus Christ has nothing to do with the pagan date of December 25. The only thing I worry about is your apostate organisation sucking more people into the December 25 pagan festival whilst lyingly and falsely calling it Jesus' "birthday". You and your pagan friends know it's not Jesus' birth date yet you carry on your heresy.
---David8318 on 1/2/12




The important thing is that Christ was born whether December 25th or not.
There are even arguments over his birth date, because Herod The Great died in 4bc.
We know HE was born and that is the important thing.
I sometimes worry when bloggs become personal attacks, how we will stand together at the 2nd coming.
---chris on 1/2/12


David, comments from you do not bother me, they are from a heretic. Whatever destiney you are heading to, it has already been written. No amount of words can get you on the right path. It has to be by the will of God. It bothers you to have Jesus Birthday on the Dec. 25 because it dishonors the pagan holidy, but it should not bother you, your jesus is not the God of the Bible, he is a created person, who was once the brother to satan.
---Mark_V. on 12/28/11


It is obvious that December 25 is the date that Christ was born.
---Eloy on 12/28/11


Wow, one can almost feel the heat of hatred on this blog.

Take a good look at what is being written. You people are fighting over a debate that cannot be won, bickering over something that is pure speculation, twisting verses to suite your misguided belief. You all should be ashamed of yourselves. We do not know the exact birth of Christ as we do not know the exact plot where God buried Moses. God has a purpose for not revealing certain facts. The birth of Christ is not important. His death and resurrection is what matters - and, of course, the love of God and fellow man.

This debate will neither get you into heaven nor into hell. Let one worship God the Father in his way according to Scripture. The end is coming shortly.
---Steveng on 12/29/11


MarkV, your true pagan identity is in full bloom as you believe in the pagan Egyptian mystery-trinity. Forcing you into antichrist propaganda.

Lets revise your list to suit your antichrist teachings-
1. Jesus Christ is God, thus 'spirit' and not flesh. Trinitarian antichrist philosophy- 1 Jo.4:2,3.
2. Jesus Christ is not a created being- therefore God and a 'spirit' not flesh. Again trinitarian antichrist philosophy- 1 Jo.4:2,3.
3. MarkV doesn't know who Michael is.
4. Christ body was not resurrected... because he is the eternal God and no need of a resurrection- trinitarian antichrist philosophy.
5. The body of Jesus did not dematerialize because he is God and did not die- trinitarian antichrist philosophy- 1 Jo.4:2,3.
---David8318 on 12/28/11




markv, you got it right brother. some here would argue if they did know they were wrong. I know you are saved, born again christian and that is what matters. I can observe christmas in july if need be. So brother, just ignore all the ignorance. God bless
---shira4368 on 12/28/11


Peter- notice the scripture from Haggai 2:18 quoted by Eloy, 'Now set your heart from this day and upward, from the twenty-fourth day of the ninth, from the day that the foundation of Yhwh's temple was laid.'

Notice it says the foundation 'WAS' laid. When? According to Ezra- in the 'second month' (Ezra 3:8).

Haggai received his commission to begin prophesying on behalf of God on the '24th day of the 9th month'. Notice Haggai 2:10- 'On the twenty-fourth day of the ninth month... the word of the LORD came to the prophet Haggai' (NIV). Also, Chislev 24 is never December 25 and never falls on the same day on our calendar.

It doesn't surprise me that pagan Eloy wants his pagan holy-day of December 25 associated with Jesus Christ.
---David8318 on 12/28/11


yooper8, I am Not shocked that sinners still deny that Christ was born on December 25, exactly as is recorded in the holy scriptures. Noone should be shocked that worldly sinners deny Christ and also that they replace Christ with a dead flashy santa idol in his place. The condemned will continually reject Christ and spout lie up to their grave and then their blasphemies will be quenched and their lying tongues will rot away in their condemned heads and be food for their worms.
---Eloy on 12/28/11


Peter, we are given 3 records: the old testament, the New Testament, and the civil record kept at Rome. Christ IS born on Christmas. According to both the Holy Scriptures, and the civil birth record, Christ's birth is recorded to have been in Bethlehem of Judea in the the 2nd hour of night, between 7 and 8 o'clock Mediterranean time, on December 25th, 5 B.C. "Now set your heart from this day and upward, from the twenty-fourth day of the ninth, from the day that the foundation of Yhwh's temple was laid, set your heart: from this day will I bless. And she birthed the son of her, the first-born, and quilt-strapped him." Heg.2:18,19+ Lk.2:7,10,11. Now in Hebrew the ninth month is Chisleu, which is December. Please Read- Lk.1:24-27,36.
---Eloy on 12/28/11


David, you also said,
"Reality is MarkV, you have no real interest in true Christianity. You don't know what true Christianity means."
How can you possibly know/ You are a cult member with the same doctrines from demons spoken of in (1 Tim. 4:1-16).
The two have the same doctrines, principles and believes.
1. Jesus Christ is not God.
2. Jesus Christ is a created being.
3. Michael is a god.
4. Christ body was not resurrected.
5. The body of Jesus was dematerialized.
6. There is no eternal hell.
7. Higher powers of Romans 13 are not the earthly goverments.
8. The Bible is not inspired or dependable.
---Mark_V. on 12/26/11


I am a bit surprised that anyone today is still shocked that Christ was not born on Dec. 25th. Bible scholars for years now have admitted based on the description in the Gospels that Christ was born somewhere around the end of Sep. or early October. Dec. 25 was the birthdate of the Persian god Mithras whom the Romans had inculcated into their pagan worship. Mithras became the most popular pagan deity and the Roman Church recognized that new converts would easily adapt to celebrating the birth of Christ if that were made Dec. 25. People can argue about whether or not we should observe Christmas on Dec. 25 but the historical facts behind the date are not in dispute.
---yooper8 on 12/23/11


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Based on the seasonal description in the Gospels, the likely time of Christ's birth would have been in the autumn around October l or so. Certainly not the end of December. This is not my viewpoint but rather that of Biblical scholars.
---doug5887 on 12/24/11


David, I thought you had some brains with you, but your answers give evidence they are set on not dishonoring pagan and heathen holdays, but you know what, no matter how you want to turn it around, what you said, was very stupid. Not even my sister who was a Jehovah witness for 10 years or my uncle who was a witness for over 40 years would never say what you said. You are not even like them.
---Mark_V. on 12/23/11


MarkV- you feign ingnorance of your true pagan identity. So it is true that you will be using pagan rituals in your form of worship. I see no denial from you that you will be using pagan elements such as xmas decorations, xmas tree, yule-tide log etc... You want us all to believe you know nothing of these pagan things? Rubbish! You know exactly what you're doing.

Reality is MarkV, you have no real interest in true Christianity. You don't know what true Christianity means. If you did you wouldn't need paganism in any form whatsoever. The only reason why you use paganism in your worship is becase your too stupid to recognise true Christianity.
---David8318 on 12/23/11


//...could you provide some evidence for your claim that I copied, about wanting pagan festivities.// peter

david via the watchtower society...yes. but, just because evidence is presented does not mean that the truth is.
---aka on 12/22/11


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Lost sinners and NonChristians have it backwards, for pagans copied off of Christian holidays and not the other way around. First there is the established Holy Days, and then later disobedience fabricated sacrilegious days to foolishly mock and condemn themselves onto damnation. When God says, This Do, This Keep, This Honor: and then a suicidal soul says, No, I will not, instead I will do otherwise and do as I please. So which came first the Right, or the wrong? It is very plain, the right and the holy days came first, and then afterward the sin and the pagan days came.
---Eloy on 12/22/11


David, you said,
"The issue is why use pagan festivities to remember Jesus? As I said previously, I'll be going to my place of worship on Sunday, December 25 to worship God and praise Jesus, but I will be doing it without any hint of pagan false religious practices. Will you be?"
I have always celebrated Christmans the same way until someone stupid like you mentions pagan's and heathens. You are the one complaining about a pagan holiday. Not any of us. You thought about them not any of us. It bothers you, not any of us. You brought it up. You are the one hung up on pagan's and heathen's. you are the one who knows the days they celebrate. So it was a stupid question coming from someone who wants to honor pagan holidays.
---Mark_V. on 12/22/11


//I'll be going to my place of worship on Sunday, December 25 to worship God and praise Jesus, but I will be doing it without any hint of pagan false religious practices. Will you be?

Whether you recognise it or not, false Christianity chose December 25 to celebrate Jesus' birth not becaue the Bible says so, but rather Christendom reasoned 'we want the pagan festivities'.//

God did not choose Sunday as the day of rest. therefore, those who do are following a pagan ritual like you, right?

plus, the bible calls for rest and not 'praise and worship'.
---aka on 12/22/11


David: 'Christendom reasoned 'we want the pagan festivities'.'

I am not sure about your disagreements that appear in the first part of your post, but could you provide some evidence for your claim that I copied, about wanting pagan festivities.

Any evidence will be happily welcomed
---Peter on 12/22/11


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MarkV- I've never said not to celebrate or remember Jesus on 'certain days' as you claim. Where have I said this?

The issue is why use pagan festivities to remember Jesus? As I said previously, I'll be going to my place of worship on Sunday, December 25 to worship God and praise Jesus, but I will be doing it without any hint of pagan false religious practices. Will you be?

Whether you recognise it or not, false Christianity chose December 25 to celebrate Jesus' birth not becaue the Bible says so, but rather Christendom reasoned 'we want the pagan festivities'.

You say, 'who cares what the pagans do'. So I take it you're not having an xmas tree, yule-tide log, mistletoe, holly or any xmas decorations this year?
---David8318 on 12/22/11


David, you say,
"MarkV, I celebrate the fact that Jesus was born and died every day of the year." If you really do, why then do you say not on some certain days?
Then you question why on that day, Because that is the time all Christianity celebrates. I have no power to change that day so that everyone can do what I tell them. Who cares what the pagan's do? You seen to care a lot about pagan's. There must be hundreds of days they celebrate something, you want to be picky on that one day. What genuine Christian goes around checking when pagans celebrate so that we don't worship that day? Your been legalistic and want us to conform to your believes. Do as you please, honor the pagan holiday by not using it for Christ.
---Mark_V. on 12/22/11


MarkV, don't get me wrong, I celebrate the fact that Jesus was born and died every day of the year. I and many other Christians encorage others to avoid using paganism to do that. December 25 falls on a Sunday this year. I'll be going to my meeting to praise Jesus and worship Jehovah... but without all the pagan paraphinalia seen in Christendoms churches.

Why do you and many other 'Christians' need to use what is clearly pagan activities & celebrations to remember Jesus? Is your form of Christianity so boring that you must use pagan festivities and revelries to make your 'worship' more exciting?

Mixxing orange juice with poison won't stop the poison killing you. 'What sharing does Christ have with Belial...?'- 2 Cor.6:14,15.
---David8318 on 12/22/11


Jack B, the word dead has many meanings depending where it is stated. In the parable of the lost son, it speaks that the father though his son was dead, that was physically dead but is really alive. He was lost and now is found. The word "dead" is the word "Nekros" it can mean natural death as in Matt. ( 10:8: 11:5: Luke 15:24,32) spiritual death (Matt. 8:22: Eph. 2:1,5: 5:14: Col.2:13) It can mean sinful practices are dead in sin (Heb. 6:1: 9:14). Dead unto sin, meaning inactive with regard to sin, as a dead man is in respect to bodily functions (Rom. 6:11) it can mean a dead faith (James 2:17,20:), which means a faith not able to justify. Sin is also been said to have been dead without the law (Rom. 7:8).
---Mark_V. on 12/22/11


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MarkV, what do you think his father meant when he said "For this my son was dead"?

Since you claim that "dead is dead!", how can you justify changing the meaning of this passage because is doesnt fit your beliefs?

It does indeed say the father considered his son DEAD while he was away from home.
---JackB on 12/21/11

Perfect scripture DEAD meaning separated from God, however very musc alive.

The Father did not FORCE his son to come home. It certainly says DEAD, not estranged but DEAD.
---kathr4453 on 12/21/11


David, I heard all the stuff about the purpose for using the pagan day for Jesus Birthday. What does that have to do with us now? What do you have to do with paganism? or Heathenism? And why should new believers need to know on what pagan holidays fall on? What you are doing is making illegal to celebrate Christ birthday on particular days. It changes not who Christ is. It doesn't cause Him to lose one thing or gain another. You are being legalistic in putting burdons on Christians, just because you don't want to celebrate His birthday. Don't celebrate it. No one here is telling you to change what you do. We are not suppose to tell you to go against your conscious. If that is what you think, that is your business.
---Mark_V. on 12/21/11


MarkV- do you honestly believe December 25 was accidentally chosen as Jesus' birthday? Do you believe 'Christians' celebrated Jesus' birth on December 25 before pagans used it?

If so you are sorely mistaken. December 25 was and still is the most sacred of pagan holy days long before apostate Christians chose it as their 'holy day'.

On December 25 The Romans celebrated the birth of their fake pagan god 'Saturn'- the Roman 'Saturnalia'. Other pagans used December 25 as the birth date for the pagan god 'Mithra'- the Persian trinity god.

MarkV, I don't give any credit to the pagan December 25 celebration. Pagans can celebrate how and when they want. But don't mix Jesus or the Bible with what is clearly pagan- 2 Cor.6:14-18.
---David8318 on 12/21/11


He was born in late September on Sukkot during the High Holy Days. AKA... the 10 DAYS OF AWE. They're between Rosh Hashashan and Yom Kippur(Day of Atonement/Judgement)

He was not born on Pagan Emperors Constantine decree of Dec25th.
---John on 12/21/11


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No Eloy, my posts are not anti-scripture... they are anti-Eloy and anti-Pagan. My posts and scriptures used as I'm sure many CN readers will see show clearly that the temple Haggai and Ezra wrote about is the one reconstructed by Zerubbabel, whose foundation was laid in the 'second month'- Ez.3:8.

Nothing in the NT (Christian Greek Scriptures) link Haggai 2:18 with Jesus' birth. If the '24th day of the 9th month' was an important Messianic prophecy for Christians, then why do none of the 1st Century Christians speak of the '24th day of the 9th month'?

You obviously have no idea when or why December 25 was chosen as the date for Jesus' birth. Ignorance is bliss is it Eloy!? Most if not all your 'Christian' customs are unbiblical.
---David8318 on 12/21/11


MarkV, what do you think his father meant when he said "For this my son was dead"?

Since you claim that "dead is dead!", how can you justify changing the meaning of this passage because is doesnt fit your beliefs?

It does indeed say the father considered his son DEAD while he was away from home.
---JackB on 12/21/11


Jack B, you have got to be kidding. Talk about putting a spin on things you sure did with that parable in Luke 15:. None of what you said is in that passage. There is no spiritual death, and no where it says the son made himself spiritually alive all by himself, or that he has the power to make himself alive. Just a lot of nonsense.
Jack, all three parables, including the two before the lost son speak of the same thing, God rejoicing when someone who is lost is found. The parable of the lost sheep (15:1-7) the parable of the lost coin (v. 8-10) the parable of the lost son (v. 11-32) speaks of something or someone lost and now found.
---Mark_V. on 12/21/11


David, I don't condemn you for believing what you do as Eloy seems to do to anyone who opposes his views. I don't even believe anyone really knows the exact date or time of His birth. But what I cannot understand is why you give so much credit to the pagan's holidays. What do they have to do with the Christian holiday to celebrate the birth of Christ. Why should anyone say, "no, we cannot have it on a pagan holiday" what would be better then for Christians to celebrate the birth of Christ on that day? We know pagan gods are fake. They don't talk, walk or answer any prayers but our Lord does. He is real. That was all I tried to say. Don't compare us to doing pagan worship just for celebrating Christ on that day or any other day.
---Mark_V. on 12/21/11


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MarkV, its the parable of the prodigal son. (Luke 15:11)

The son came to himself, knew he was living foolishly and wanted to return home to his father.

During that time his father had considered him dead. But yet his son was making the effort to return home. His father saw him coming and met him halfway. You know this parable. The twist you put on it should be interesting. Hopefully you listen to the Spirit and concede that this is exactly what Jesus was saying. The spiritually "dead" can still reason to ourselves and make a decision to turn around. That is where Jesus comes in. He gives us the POWER to do it.
---JackB on 12/20/11


David, but you posts are proven to be antiScripture. You oppose the truth of scripture each Christmas season, and any other Christian custom that we Christians hold dear, because your desire is not regenerate. You already call that which is holy, pagan. You refuse to submit to Christ the head of all. Now when the loser satan can get you to believe the lie that Christ was not born on Christmas day, then he can easily get you to believe the lie that there is no Christ Jesus, no heaven, no hell, no good and no evil: for once you embrace one lie, then that little leaven will leaven your whole lump until you are completely devoid of any hope of Salvation, and completely condemned as antiChrist and the enemy of the cross and of God.
---Eloy on 12/20/11


David, I don't really believe anyone has a clear date on the birth of Jesus. What I find amazing is that you seem to think that by having His birthday on a pagan day, somehow that pagan's get priority or stains Jesus name. Jesus is his deity is God, I know you don't believe that, but He is. And we can celebrate the birth of Jesus the Eternal Begotten Son of God anyday we want and don't have to follow any guidelines as to a particular day. None of us are going around looking to see when pagan holidays are coming, we don't care to know. So what that it's a pagan holiday. They should change their date to accommodate us.
---Mark_V. on 12/20/11


Eloy, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I am defending the Bible from your attempt to link the December 25 pagan holy day with the Bible.

Chislev is not December. In fact, 24th day of Chislev would never fall on the same day each year on the Gregorian calendar.

Haggai is prophesying about the Temble reconstruction under Zerubbabel. The same Temple Ezra is speaking of in his book. Ezra confirms the Temple foundation was laid in the 'second month'- Ez.3:8.

'In the twenty-fourth day of the ninth month, in the second year of Dari'us, the word of God occurred to Haggai'- Hag.2:10. Haggai began prophesying on 24th day of the 9th month, thats all.

The Spiritual temple began at Jesus' baptism, not his birth.
---David8318 on 12/20/11


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David is desperate to have the Christian holy day December 25 which is recorded in the scripture to be linked to paganism.

Christ's birth is recorded in both testaments of the Holy Scripture, and also documented by the civil authorities.

Christ's birth has zero to do with any paganism, and mythologies, and santy clauses, and flying reindeers, and elves, and north pole, zero. Christ was born on Christmas day exactly as prophesied, the proven Savior of the world.

AntiChrists like David will come and go, but Christ with his Christians will remain for ever.
---Eloy on 12/20/11


Every year the same dissers come out dissing the Holy Scriptures which record Christ's birth on December 25. Perhaps they think by continually professing the lie then Christians will cease celebrating Christ on Christmas. But the fact remains, there will always be Holy Spirit filled Christians like myself whom will loudly yell Merry CHRISTmas on CHRISTmas day, and the more condemned sinners try to stifle us the louder we will turn up the voulume and we have no reluctance in straightway sueing you condemned sinners in court for your unlawful discrimination. Keep it up sinners, and I will do my very best to get a law passed to have each Christian basher fined and arrested.
---Eloy on 12/20/11


Peter, Zacharias was performing the priests duty to make atonement for himself and the people in the 7th month
---Eloy on 12/19/11

Zacharias was of the division Abijah, Luke 1:5, and according to 1 Chron 24, Abijah was the eighth division.

Historian Josephus in Antiquities 7 tells us that each division served one week and all priests served during the weeks of Pesach, Shavout, and Sukkot.

Since Pesach immediately followed the division which Zacharias served in, he would not have left the temple. So, the conception of John would be the third week of Sivan, or early June.

In the sixth month of Elizabeth's pregnancy, Mary is visited by Gabriel.

This puts the conception of Jesus some time in December.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/20/11


Peter, Zacharias was performing the priests duty to make atonement for himself and the people in the 7th month (Hb: Ethanim= Eng: October 9 at evening- Lev.16:29-34+ 23:26-32). The angel Gabriel spoke to him at this time, Lk.1:8-11. Elizabeth in her 6th month of pregnancy, when Mary conceives seed from the Holy Ghost (from October, November is 2, December is 3, January is 4, and so on up to March is the 6th month- Lk.1:26,27,36). Now count 9 months for Mary's pregnancy, 1,end of March to the beginning of April + 2,Zif, May + 3,Siuan, June + 4,Tammuz, July + 5,Ab, August + 6,Elul, September + 7,Ethanim, October + 8,Bul, November + 9,Chisleu, December. Thus fulfilling the prophecy of Heggai 2:15-19, Jesus the Cornerstone was indeed born on Dec.25
---Eloy on 12/19/11


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david, I reiterate, Ezra speaking of building the old testament temple in the 2nd month in the spring cannot be Heggai prophesying of the beginning of The New Testament Temple of Christ in the 9th month in the winter. For comparing the detailed scripture of Ezra side by side to the detailed scripture of Heggai proves that the recorded comparison is of two nonrelated and different subjects: the old testament physical building in Jerusalem is not the same as the New Testament Christ Temple.
---Eloy on 12/19/11


Eloy is desperate to have the pagan December 25 holy day linked to scripture.

Eloy wrongly concludes Haggai 2:18 says the temple foundation was laid on the '24th day of the 9th month'. It was laid in the 'second month'- Ezra 3:8. (Haggai began his fourth prophetic message on the '24th day of the 9th month').

Eloy is also wrong to say Ezra and Haggai were talking about different temples. Ezra confirms Haggai is used to encourage temple reconstruction under Zerubbabel: 'Now Haggai the prophet and Zechariah the prophet... set to work to rebuild the house of God in Jerusalem. And the prophets of God were with them, helping them.' (Ez.5:1-3)

Same Ezra, same Haggai, same temple whose foundation was laid in the 'second month'.
---David8318 on 12/19/11


Ezra and Haggai were writing about the same temple reconstructed by Zerubbabel as testified by Ezra himself-

'Now Haggai the prophet and Zechariah the prophet, a descendant of Iddo, prophesied to the Jews in Judah and Jerusalem in the name of the God of Israel, who was over them'- Ezra 5:1-3 (NIV).

Ezra said the foundation was laid in the 'second month'- Ez.3:8. Opposition stopped reconstruction 'until the second year of the reign of Darius king of Persia' (Ezra 4:24), 17 years later.

Haggai then began prophesying on the '24th day of the 9th month' to rouse the Jews to continue temple reconstruction on an already laid foundation- Hag.2:18.

Thus Hag.2:18 has nothing to do with the temple foundation or Jesus' birth.
---David8318 on 12/17/11


Eloy: 'According to both the Holy Scriptures, and the civil birth record, '

I may be a bit silly in my understanding, but the one Gospel that describes the birth (Luke) does not seem to say enough to give an accurate date

Could you help me with how to understand the Scripture.

From my understanding, starting with Zechariah's message, December is possible, but not certain

Any help, Eloy?
---Peter on 12/17/11


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we should consider the birth of Jesus great and quite necessary, but it was, from all I read, a normal birth. It was the conception that was the miracle.
The conception of Jesus would have been six months after the conception of John the Baptist, which woud have been the latter part of June by our calander. Making the conception of Jesus the latter part of December.
---michael_e on 12/17/11


what is being celebrated is not a day, but the FACT of the Nativity according to the Flesh of our Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ, to whom be glory.
---Cluny on 12/7/11

Immanuel.
---aka on 12/18/11


Start the timeline when Gabriel visited Mary. It states that Mary journeyed to see Elizabeth "straightaway" which is to say it was immediate.

The actual birthdate you can find in the companion Bible, and appendix 179.This is the work by EW Bullinger, probably the greatest Christian scholar of all time.

The probable time of the birth of Christ is at the feast of Tabernacles. A full and comprehensive breakdown of this whole subject is available from "the shepherds Chapel". The name of this article is entitled Christmas. To follow and work out the appendix 179 could be very lengthy but after doing so the usual student would be blessed with understanding.
---j_mason on 12/18/11


Dec 25th has always been Jesus birth date, and always will be forever and ever.
---south_paw on 12/18/11


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There are no instructions to celebrating Christ's birthday. Rather, Paul admonished Christians in 1 Corinthians 11:26,29,

"For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till He come. Paul never taught "shew the Lord's 'birthday' till He come", and there are consequence to disobedience, "For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body."

Trying to "add a date" when there's not even a mention of it in the Bible is what John warns in Revelation 22:18, "If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book."
---christan on 12/19/11


Eloy, you said,
"Christ's birth is recorded to have been in Bethlehem of Judea in the the 2nd hour of night, between 7 and 8 o'clock Mediterranean time,"
Where is this recorded at? I want to see the recorded material you say is recorded.
---Mark_V. on 12/19/11


1st Cliff, A-men. The historical record of Jesus' live birth date cannot be changed. Both testaments of the holy scripture declare the same date, and also the civil record of his birth recorded the same date. And therefore all Christians worldwide can be 100% confident in celebrating Christ's birth on Christmas day.
---Eloy on 12/17/11


Do not read into the scriptures, but let the scriptures read into you. When Heggai prophecies of Christ's birth in the hebrew 9th month, which is December, and Ezra spoeaks of a different temple in the 2nd month, then plainly these are two completely diffferent things being written about, david. Otherwise , you would be believing tat the Holy Scriptures are lying rather than prophesy the truth. This is a common thing among dissers, they misapply and misconstrue the very plain and clear scriptures to try to suit their own private interpreatations rather than accepting the scriptures exactly as they are.
---Eloy on 12/16/11


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david, you are in error. For we know that Heggai was prophesying of the Chief Cornerstone, Christ Jesus the beginning of the New Testament church, and not about the old testament church during Heggai's time, because God clearly details in his prophecy: "And I will shake all nations, and the Desire of All Nations will come: and I will fill this house with glory, says Yhwh of hosts. The glory of this latter house will be greater than of the former, says Yhwh of hosts: and in this place will I give peace, says Yhwh of hosts. I will shake the heavens and the earth: and I will overthrow the throne of kingdoms, and I will destroy the strength of the kingdoms of the nations." Heg.2:7,9,22.
---Eloy on 12/16/11


Eloy, I knew you'd come through (1st post on this bolg)
Between 7 and 8 o'clock pm hey, that's cool!
Likely barom.pres. was 101.3 Kpa.
Wind was nw at about 5 knots?
Temp. a cool 10 degrees celsius
Little or no precipitation!
---1st_cliff on 12/16/11


Eloy- the foundation of YHWH temple was laid in the '2nd month'. Eye witnesses to the laying of YHWH temple foundation in the '2nd month' is recorded at Ezra 3:1 and 10.

It is Haggai's proclamation to the Jews 17 years after Ezra's day to get on with temple reconstruction that was made on the '24th day of the 9th month'. The temple foundation wasn't laid on this date. The foundation was laid in the '2nd month' as reported by the eyewitness Ezra.

When Haggai speaks at 2:18 of the foundation of Jehovah's temple that "WAS" laid (17yrs previous), Haggai makes a proclamation on the '24th day of the 9th month' to move the Jews to 'lay brick upon brick' on the already laid foundation. This has nothing to do with Jesus' birth.
---David8318 on 12/16/11


Christ IS born on Christmas. According to both the Holy Scriptures, and the civil birth record, Christ's birth is recorded to have been in Bethlehem of Judea in the the 2nd hour of night, between 7 and 8 o'clock Mediterranean time, on December 25th, 5 B.C. "Now set your heart from this day and upward, from the twenty-fourth day of the ninth, from the day that the foundation of Yhwh's temple was laid, set your heart: from this day will I bless. And she birthed the son of her, the first-born, and quilt-strapped him." Heg.2:18,19+ Lk.2:7,10,11. Now in Hebrew the ninth month is Chisleu, which is December. Please Read- Lk.1:24-27,36.
---Eloy on 12/16/11


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According to Jewish history and their calanders he was born somewhere in Sept or October. December might have been when she concieved him. In my hosehold we celebrate his birth around Oct 1,but again we do not know and GOd doesn't really tell us except about Joseph and Mary going to take the census.
---candice on 12/8/11


\\IF Zechriah met with Gabriel on the Day of Atonement (assuming that he went in to offer the sacrifice on the normal day,generally in September - this year it's 10/8), then 4 months ('is in her fourth month') until Mary was told she would bear Jesus (February), likely November\\

Look again. Luke says, "In the sixth month" the Annunciation to the Virgin took place--presumably of Elizabeth's pregnancy.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/8/11


IF Zechriah met with Gabriel on the Day of Atonement (assuming that he went in to offer the sacrifice on the normal day,generally in September - this year it's 10/8), then 4 months ('is in her fourth month') until Mary was told she would bear Jesus (February), likely November, but maybe October, which is after the harvest

Only an idea
---James on 12/7/11


I believe that the birthdate of Jesus was the Feast of Tabernacles for the year He was born.

I believe the building translated as "manger" was actually a sukkah, or booth with a serving tray in it.

I believe this is the reason why Zech 14 speaks about all peoples coming to celebrate Tabernacles
---Mark_Eaton on 12/7/11


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//Another idea is the spring time because the shepards were in the fields instead of pens which are used more during non-growing season.//

Not a bad idea, however, the shepherds wouldn't sleep in a pen anyway. The sheep would. One shepherd would watch at the gate to the pen, hence, the illustration of Jesus being the Good Shepherd guarding the one gate.
---Rod4Him on 12/7/11


Well, when was the "division of Abijah" supposed to be? And what is your source? Do you consider your source to be as reliable as God and His word?

Every day belongs to God, not one day to Satan, at all. So, if I confess that Jesus is the Lord of all, I confess that every day is Jesus Christ's day. But it looks like there could be people who are working for Satan, claiming days for him.

Jesus takes the place of the old man in us. So, I can see that days for Christ can take the place of days that Satan has been using, and use the day God's way.
---Bill_willa6989 on 12/7/11


I completely agree with what others here have said, If knowing the date of Christ's birth was important for us to know, God would've made it known. The date isn't the important thing. The fact that He was born, died & lives are the important things to know. December 25th is only the date we have set aside to remember & celebrate His birth. Nothing more & certainly nothing less.
---Reba on 12/7/11


25 December was first suggested by a Christian writer whose name escapes me back in 211, over 100 years before that nasty ole Constantine and the Council of Nicea.

There was a pious tradition that Jewish prophets always died on the anniversary of their conceptions. Christ was crucified on the Feast of Passover, which fell in 29 AD on 25 March. Do the math.

However, what is being celebrated is not a day, but the FACT of the Nativity according to the Flesh of our Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ, to whom be glory.
---Cluny on 12/7/11


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Does it matter?

Even if we knew the exact date of Jesus' birth, it would make no difference to the December 25 celebration. Pagans will still celebrate on December 25 irrespective of when Jesus was actually born because Decembr 25 is the most sacred of pagan holy days.

But you are correct that Jesus was born 15 months after the 'Division of Abijah', the priestly division in which Zechariah was conducting priestly services when he was visited by Gabriel- Luke 1:5,26. Eloy will be wrong in saying Zechariah was performing Atonement Day services. Eloy doesn't realise Atonement Day does not occur during the 'Division of Abijah', and Zehariah was not the High Priest nor a deputy.
---David8318 on 12/7/11


I am sure that if it was or is important to know, God can and will make that known. I prefer not to dwell too much on that, but see nothing wrong with acknowledging the occasion of Christs birth, it IS something to rejoice in!!! Adding or taking away from it is where I see problems.
---chria9396 on 12/7/11


Another idea is the spring time because the shepards were in the fields instead of pens which are used more during non-growing season. As far as how long they stayed in bethlehem estimates range from two to three years.
---Scott1 on 12/7/11


To figure out the date of the birth of Christ is along the same vain as those who try and figure out His return - it's never been done. Most lean towards the fall - probably Sept. or Oct. The gospel of Luke states that the angels appeared to the shepherds watching the sheep. This means they were out in the fields before it got too cold. Once it got cold, the sheep were brought in from the cold. That's about as close as anyone had gotten - to my knowledge. This also means it could have been anytime between Spring and Fall.
---wivv on 12/6/11


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I'm quite sure Eloy knows, but does it matter when Jesus' birthday really is?
---John.usa on 12/6/11


It says Caesar ordered everyone to be registered, and then Joseph and Mary went to Bethlehem. So, one idea is that a registration would come after harvest so the work could be done. If this is so, after harvest would be, in Israel . . . whenever that was with weather conditions of that time (c: And how long they stayed before Jesus was born . . . can't be assumed. In any case, I understand winter there is warmer than in New England. So, I don't assume how Israel's winter would be, based on how things are . . . on the North Pole in winter!! (c:
---Bill_willa6989 on 12/6/11


Why do I have this feeling that Eloy will tell us in great detail???
---1st_cliff on 12/6/11


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