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Any Unholy Days Since Christ

There are several people here who say that on the basis of their understanding of the Bible, the Saturday Sabbath is obligatory on Christians and must be kept holy. According to the Bible, is there a day we may keep in a totally unholy and profane, sinful manner, especially since Christ has come?

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 ---Cluny on 12/11/11
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The verse speaks of the unchangeable attributes of Christ, it does not say that His relationship to His creation is the same from one covenant to the other.

For instance, Galatians 3 speaks of the law as a temporary measure until the believer could be justified by faith.



Exactly Lee!
---JackB on 1/3/12


The verse speaks of the unchangeable attributes of Christ, ---lee1538 on 1/3/12

No it speaks especially of THE DOCTRINE
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Hebrews 13:9 Be not carried about with divers and strange DOCTRINES.
---francis on 1/3/12


//Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines.

The verse speaks of the unchangeable attributes of Christ, it does not say that His relationship to His creation is the same from one covenant to the other.

For instance, Galatians 3 speaks of the law as a temporary measure until the believer could be justified by faith. Such does speak of a changeable relationship, not a change in attributes or of the nature of God.

The unique doctrines of Adventism are indeed strange & diverse, definitely not of that faith ONCE AND FOR ALL delivered to the saints. Jude 3. Adventism seeks to introduce new revelation, not a new understanding of the faith.
---lee1538 on 1/3/12


It all goes back to their belief that Adventism has been given a special annointing by God to reveal truth to others that are Christian.
---JackB on 1/2/12
No it goes back to THE DOCTRINES OF GOD

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines.

Seems that satan has put in peoples mind a STRANGE and DIFFERENT DOCTRINE from the ten commandments

PSS PSS come here
Satan wants to replace the 7th day with the 1st day.

To SDA, that is a STRANGRE and DIVERSE doctrine from yesterday, that is being taught today.


Can you HONESTLY tell me that this is NOT s DIFFERENT doctrine from ANYTHING found in the WORD OF GOD?
---francis on 1/2/12


Samuel //But the (sda investigative) judgment is taught by others it is called the Bema judgment seat.
---
The Bema seat is a judgment by Christ on the works of the Christian to determine rewards if any, and is reflected in 1 cor.3:12-15, it is not a judgment that determines ones eternal salvation as does the SDA Investigative Judgment.

The SDA Investigative Judgment basically renders ones salvation to a works soteriology.

Salvation is gift given to those who believe with works being a product of that salvation. Eph. 2:8-10
---lee1538 on 1/3/12




francis, in (James 2:7-13), where do you find "Saturday Sabbath?". Nowhere. The context is not speaking about Saturday Sabbath. James it speaking to those who are showing partiality. They were not to treat rich over the poor. How could they show partiality if they were under the law of Liberty? The law of liberty is to love God and love neighbor. If they showed partiality, they were acting as those who were under the law. He finishes with,
"So speak as so do as those who will be judged by the Law of Liberty. For Judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment"
---Mark_V. on 1/3/12


JackB//Their pride wont let them consider the possibility they that are very mistaken and have been led astray by their selfish desires and not by the Spirit.

Could not agree more as none of those you mentioned are infallible. And even if one is in the Spirit, there is still disagreements as language itself may be limited.
---lee1538 on 1/2/12


It all goes back to their belief that Adventism has been given a special annointing by God to reveal truth to others that are Christian.

Just as SOME Calvinists, Baptists, Catholics, Mormons also believe. Their pride wont let them consider the possibility they that are very mistaken and have been led astray by their selfish desires and not by the Spirit.
---JackB on 1/2/12


\\Every time you do your own pleasure on the sabbath IT IS A SIN 1 John 3:4 for sin is the transgression of the law\\

Does that mean if you go to church on Saturday because you enjoy it, it's a sin?

Samoa recently dropped a Friday from its week when it moved WEST of the international date line. That meant their Sunday fell on what had been the Saturday Sabbath. NOW what?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/2/12


Dear lee1538

Your basic premise is true. Some laws were strictly for the jews but some have a spiritual application to us. Example to be circucised of heart not flesh. JESUS is our High Priest. Also our stomachs are no different for Jews and the law of clean and unclean was known by Noah.

Yes GOD's laws are to be written in our heart by the HOLY SPIRIT through study of the Bible.

I do not think you understand what you just said Lee. We have two unique beliefs. One is 1844 as the time for the investigative judgement. But the judgement is taught by others it is called the Bema judgement seat. Like all of our beliefs we are not truly unique in having them. Just in having them all together and telling people about them.
---Samuel on 1/2/12




//Every time you do your own pleasure on the sabbath IT IS A SIN 1 John 3:4 for sin is the transgression of the law
---
And one law is that you may not light a fire to cook your food on the Sabbath - Exodus 35:3 You are guilty of breaking the law.

//If you make it a HABIT of not keeping the sabbath you are living in SIN. If you do not keep the sabbath and say you have no SIN then you deceive yourself

---
Not all OT laws are applicable to the Christian - laws that are strictly Jewish in nature = circumcision, sabbath, dietary laws, etc.see Acts 15
--
Under the NEW COVENANT God's Laws IS IN OUR HEARTS. hebrews 10:16

All 600+ OT laws, simply not true at all See Romans 13:9-10
---lee1538 on 1/2/12


JackB//Francis, I think what he is saying is that you need to worry about your OWN sins and let us and our Savior worry about ours.

It all goes back to their belief that Adventism has been given a special annointing by God to reveal truth to others that are Christian.

Unfortunately they fail to realize that the entire basis for their unique beliefs was based on the false premises they made in October 1844.
---lee1538 on 1/2/12


Francis, I think what he is saying is that you need to worry about your OWN sins and let us and our Savior worry about ours. And the last thing you need to do is judge someone because they worship on a different day of the week. Your main concern should be that they worship the one true God, our Lord Jesus Christ.

I guarantee there is at least ONE sin in your life and that ONE sin disqualifies you from telling anyone else what they should or should not be doing unless they ask for your opinion. Im sure you dont want to be a hypocrite. Remove your plank/s in your own eye then try to help someone else with their beam.
---JackB on 1/2/12


Every day is Holy.
Everyday we sin.
Whether it is the worship of materialistic things such as car, money, home or persons. There are many false idols.
If we think ourselves better than even the poorest, if we take when we can give and do not give when we can. Is that not sin?
When we pass judgement on another saying you are not a Christian, or, you will be damned. Are we not in danger of the very sin Lucifer was condemned for, putting ourselves above God? Surely that is for God to judge not mere mortal?
How many times do we sin with thought word and deed however unintentional?
Some choose to worship the Saturday. Others prefer the day of the risen Christ. Others believe in daily prayer and direct communication to the Lord.
---Chris on 1/2/12


Every time you do your own pleasure on the sabbath IT IS A SIN 1 John 3:4 for sin is the transgression of the law

If you make it a HABIT of not keeping the sabbath you are living in SIN. If you do not keep the sabbath and say you have no SIN then you deceive yourself

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Under the NEW COVENANT God's Laws IS IN OUR HEARTS.

Hebrews 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with .. saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts,

If you do not keep the sabbath and say you did not sin, you make God a liar

1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
---francis on 12/31/11


//John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the LUSTS of your father ye will do. He was a MURDERER from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a LIE, he speaketh of his own: for he is A LIAR, and the father of it.

If one can read the history of the Adventist movement, it is all to easy to see that Miller and his followers (chiefly Ellen White), propagated a lie.

And where do lies come from but from him that was a liar from the beginning?

lee1538

Correcting someone means showing them where they are wrong. Not telling them they are liars and chidlren of Satan. That is hatred. Where have I called you names and demened you like you have done to me.
---Samuel on 1/1/12


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Deu 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

Yes the two greatist commandments from the Old Testament are love GOD love thy neighbor as the lawyer told JESUS.

Luk 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?


Luk 10:26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?


Luk 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind, and thy neighbour as thyself.
---Samuel on 1/1/12


//Why do I keep the commnadments?
--
And there are only 2 commandments that really concern us.

1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, that (1) we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and (2) love one another, just as he has commanded us.

It also says that the fulfillment of the law is love of neighbor. Romans 13:9f.

//Salvation is by Grace alone.
--
Totally agree but grace by definition is unmerited favor, it is more than just a provision provided to enable one to obey the law and thus merit salvation.

//You speak hatred toward me and all who are Seventh day Adventist.

Am I forbidden to criticize or question Adventists beliefs? Is disagreement also hate?
---lee1538 on 12/31/11


francis, I'll tell you what 1 John 3:9 is saying. The verb "commits" in the Greek conveys the idea of making sin a habitual practice. Although genuine Christians have a sin disposition (1:8) and do commit and need to confession (1:9: 2:1) that is not the unbroken pattern of their lives. A genuine born again believer has a build-in safeguard against habitual sinning who is the Holy Spirit due to his rebirth, life from the dead (Romans 6:12). The reason why Christians cannot practice sin is because it is incompatitble with the work of Christ. "Does not sin" again the Greek word conveys the idea of habitual sinning. If no safeguard exist in someone who professes to be Christian, he is not born of the Spirit.
---Mark_V. on 12/31/11


--Saturday Sabbath will not cover for your other sins.--MarkV

Nicely put Mark. But it seems they think it will.
---CraigA on 12/30/11

Where has ANYONE ever said that saturday sabbath will cover for OTHER sins?

What I have said any many others including James 2 verses 7-10, is that to not keep the " saturday sabbath" is a SIN like breaking any other of the ten commandments.
---francis on 12/31/11


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//1 John 3:8 He that committeth SIN IS OF THE DEVIL, for the devil sinneth from the beginning.

You sin if you disobey the law- right?

Exodus 35:3 You shall kindle no fire in all your dwelling places on the Sabbath day.

Since you light a fire in your home to cook you food on the Sabbath, you sin. And if you sin that clearly means you are of the Devil.

Since no sinner has the truth in him, why then should we listen to you?

Are we not correct on this Francis?
---lee1538 on 12/31/11


//francis, but you sin just like everyone else. If what you stated is true, then you are going to hell, for no one can keep the whole law.

Exodus 35:3 You shall kindle no fire in all your dwelling places on the Sabbath day.

And bear in mind that Adventism holds the Old Covenant laws were written onto the hearts of believers (Hebrews 8:19). So you definitely need to repent and stop cooking your food on the Sabbath.

Also James 2:10 is very clear that if you screw up on one of God's laws, you are held accountable for all of them.

Remember Jerry boy says Christ came to save you from your sins, not in your sins.
---lee1538 on 12/30/11


Every Christian sins. .
---JackB on 12/30/11

what is your understanding of this passage:

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

My understanding is that those born again do not commit themselve to sin / live in sin
---francis on 12/30/11


Lee what has happened to you. Instead of trying to show we are wrong by using the Bible you just say that we who follow JESUS and lift him up as the only way of Salvation are of the devil.

You have never read one word that I have written saying you are a child of Satan. Yet you state that I am one. Why because I believe that I should follow JESUS and keep his commandments?

Why do I keep the commnadments? Because I love GOD and I love all including you that JESUS died to save. Salvation is by Grace alone. But read first John where he points out that those who do not love others do not love GOD.

You speak hatred toward me and all who are Seventh day Adventist.
---Samuel on 12/30/11


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--Saturday Sabbath will not cover for your other sins.--MarkV

Nicely put Mark. But it seems they think it will.
---CraigA on 12/30/11


//1 John 3:4 sin is the transgression of the law.

While true NOT ALL OT laws are applicable to the Christian.

If they were then Christian males need become circumcised, not light a fire on the Sabbath, marry a death brothers wife if he was unfruitful, as well as observe all the Jewish festivals.

In particular since the Jerusalem council decreed that Gentile converts need not convert to Judaism to be legit, distinctive Jewish laws as is the Sabbath were not obligated to them.

It is just too easy to see that was the case from both Scripture as well as Church history.
---lee1538 on 12/29/11


francis, but you sin just like everyone else. If what you stated is true, then you are going to hell, for no one can keep the whole law. Not even you. Saturday Sabbath will not cover for your other sins. Think of the time when you could have helped someone and didn't, when you walked where you shouldn't have walked, when you said soemthing you shouldn't have said to a brother or sister, so you are far from righteous yourself, without the imputed righteousness of Christ you are going to hell in a basket, now maybe you do not believe in hell, that would be because you cannot keep the law and think you will get away with it. For He says,
"I know the things that come into your mind, every one of them" (Ezek. 11:5).
---Mark_V. on 12/29/11


//John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the LUSTS of your father ye will do. He was a MURDERER from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a LIE, he speaketh of his own: for he is A LIAR, and the father of it.

If one can read the history of the Adventist movement, it is all to easy to see that Miller and his followers (chiefly Ellen White), propagated a lie.

And where do lies come from but from him that was a liar from the beginning?

If that is so, then what can we conclude about those that inherited the Adventists movement?

Sorry Francis, but it is obvious that you have inherited this deception.
---lee1538 on 12/29/11


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I pity those who only see in black and white. They never see the beautiful rainbow of colors between the shades.

Every Christian sins. 1 John says we do and if we deny that fact then we do not have the truth in us.

If God were to lay down every single law that He ever made we would find that we have broken far more than just 10.... and that we do so on a daily basis.

Maybe He should. Maybe that would finally shut the mouths of some Christians who think they are good enough to judge others and spend all their time judging instead of loving. The exact OPPOSITE of what Jesus Christ did.
---JackB on 12/30/11


---Mark_V. on 12/28/11

I think The BIBLE is the one who introduces SATAN as being on control of those who break the law of God

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the LUSTS of your father ye will do. He was a MURDERER from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a LIE, he speaketh of his own: for he is A LIAR, and the father of it.

1 John 3:4 sin is the transgression of the law.

1 John 3:8 He that committeth SIN IS OF THE DEVIL, for the devil sinneth from the beginning.

1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are MADE KNOWN, and the children of the devil: whosoever DOES NOT DO WHAT ISLAWFUL AND RIGHT is not of God,
---FRANCIS on 12/29/11


francis Part 2: now there is a remedy for you and all who are under the Old Covenant of Works. "Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written) "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree). That the blessings of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith." (Gal. 3:13.14).
"For no one is justified by the law in the sight of God" (Gal. 3:11).
Since you demand complete obedience of the law for your life, and you cannot keep all of the law, you are cursed, and in great need of Christ Jesus to be a curse for you.
---Mark_V. on 12/28/11


francis, you first introduce satan, then call the Word of God satanic. Second, you speak for the law and put yourself under the law.
Under the Old Covenant of works, "Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of the law" ( Deut. 27:26), Everyone was cursed. Total obedience is demanded by the law and required by God. Only the Lord Jesus Christ was able to accomplished this (2 Cor. 5:21). Third, "For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them" Gal. 3:10) "Yet the law is not of faith, but the man who does them shall live by the law" That's you, your cursed.
---Mark_V. on 12/28/11


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Galatians 2:21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if justification were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.

As for your quotations from 1 John, you fail to understand that the commandments John speaks of are only 2 - believe on Jesus & love one another. (see also Romans 13:9-10)

1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.

Francis, try to think if you can. I could beat the tar out of you and not disobey any of the 10 commandments as long as I did not kill you. Are you so blinded that you cannot see that?
---lee1538 on 12/27/11


John 3:5 Christ came to earth as a human to take away our sin, and to keep us from living a life of sin

1 John 3:6 Whoever believes in Christ does not live a life of sin.

1 John 3:7 Do not let anyone fool you, the righteous are those who do what is right based on God's commandments

1 John 3:8 Those who live a life dedicated to breaking the commandments of God are of the devil. he is the original law breaker.

1 John 3:9 Whosesoever is born of God does not live a life of sin, because the spirit of God is in him, and the spirit of God does not sin or cause us to sin.
---francis on 12/27/11


Where the statement is made that Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, by being made a curse for us? ---Mark_V. on 12/26/11

matk-v YOU STATEMENT is a satanic statement.

1: No christian cOMMIT ADULTERY, MURDER OR TAKE JEHOVAH'S NAME IN VAIN and claim that Jesus has redeemed us from the curse of the law, thus he is free not to keep the law

2: Galatians 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found TRANGRESSORS OF THE LAW, is therefore Christ the minister of SIN? God forbid.
---Francis on 12/27/11


Gordon //OBEDIENCE ever come into play?

One can obey all the written laws but at the same time be disobedience to what the Spirit of God would have us to do. All too often our sin lies in what we do not do instead of in what we do.
---lee1538 on 12/26/11


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Gordon, you preach works for salvation. Why? You said,
"YAHUSHUA specifically stated that IF you love Him, you will OBEY His Commands"
Why do you judge the amount of obedience of others? Which laws do you keep? And do you keep them all? If you say yes, you lie.
( Deut. 27:26) tells us "Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of the law" We're told everyone is cursed, for no one can keep them all. Gal.3 tells us, that Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law by being made a curse for us. As the curse rest upon everyone who does not comply fully with the law, it was necessary for Christ to die and take the curse upon Himself for you and me. Why is His death not sufficient for you?
---Mark_V. on 12/26/11


francis, you don't realize when you cannot get your point across you say,
"If you do not agree with that, then Satan has your mind"
Really?
Seems that satan was in your mind, you thought about him.
Don't you understand Gal.3? Where the statement is made that Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, by being made a curse for us? Based upon the quotation from Deut. 27:26) that everyone is cursed who does not perfectly keep the law. For no man is able to live up to the law perfectly. Paul points out that justification is by faith and not by the law, that is why it was necessary for Christ to die and take the curse upon Himself. But that is not good enough, you want everyone to stay under the curse.
---Mark_V. on 12/26/11


MarkV, If one does not "do this, or do that", When and where, then, does OBEDIENCE ever come into play?? YAHUSHUA specifically stated that IF you love Him, you will OBEY His Commands. And,what are Commands if they're not something that is specifically required by the Master to be OBEYED?! Legalism is not "obeying Commands of GOD". Legalism is "obeying" without Love!
---Gordon on 12/26/11


//They see a word, look it up, and pick their own choice.

The legalistist is in bondage to the law as he would interpret it, however for those whom Christ has freed from the law, only the principle may be applicable.

So, the principle behind the Sabbath or other holy days should be the focus of our worship service, however, the exact day is really up to us or if we wish to do so, follow in those traditions established by the church over the centuries. Communal worship on Sundays in accordance to what the early church held.

So with that I can have prescribed worship of our Lord on Easter & Christmas, the advantage and benefits if any are mine and not necessarily some denomination.
---lee1538 on 12/23/11


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Francis - You ask where God spoke of "another day"?

You need to read the posts -

Hebrews 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on.
---lee1538 on 12/21/11

You have not shown where God spoke of another day, you just posted the same verse which says God spoke of anotherday

Let me help you by showing the " rest: spoken of by Joshua and you show me where God spoke of another day

Joshua 22:4 And now the LORD your God hath given rest unto your brethren, as he promised them

Now show where God spoke of another day
---francis on 12/23/11


Lee, I agree with you. I was told by 1Cliff concerning the day that Adam sinned, that the word "day" was "Yom" and gave one definition of "yom." What he failed to do was, give the other definitions of that word. The word "yom" has many definitions depending where it is found. They see a word, look it up, and pick their own choice. People turn around and then say, it was Saturday. How do they know it was Saturday? We need to make sure what meaning God wanted to convey in any particular passage. It is not for us to choose which one we want to use. Johnusa had it right. Not everything in Genesis is exact, it was not meant to be that way.
---Mark_V. on 12/23/11


it is interesting that those who read the Bible always prefer to interpret in light of what their denominations teaches. Such is the case with Adventists who superimpose on the Scripture the errant interpretations created by one of the minions of the devil.

I can see that they really have lots of problems in defending their positions as the Bible to them does not say what it says.
---lee1538 on 12/22/11


Francis - You ask where God spoke of "another day"?

You need to read the posts -

Hebrews 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on.

Hebrews tells us that the Sabbath simply depicted the rest of believers in Christ (4:3).

My issue with you is not that one should observe any day as holy (Romans 14 gives one freedom in this), but your view that the Sabbath (and dietary laws) were imposed on the church.

Adventists fail to distinguish between the Old and New Covenant - the Old being declared obsolete in Hebrews 8:13 and called the ministry of death & condemnation in 2 Cor. 3:7,9.
---lee1538 on 12/21/11


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(4:8) For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on.

And francis can you tell me what is that "another day" if not the day of our salvation in Christ?
---lee1538 on 12/19/11

First show where God spoke of another day
---francis on 12/21/11


Francis //Only ONE DAY out of the 7 was blessed and sanctified by God.

Hebrews 4:4 For he has somewhere spoken of the 7th day in this way: And God rested on the 7th day from all his works

....

(4:8) For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on.

And francis can you tell me what is that "another day" if not the day of our salvation in Christ?
---lee1538 on 12/19/11


There are seven day is one week.
There are six days of creation
God did not blessed and hallow the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th 5th or 6th.

Genesis 2:3 God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it:

Only ONE DAY out of the 7 was blessed and sanctified by God

I hardly think that this is in any dispute.
If you do not agree with that, then Satan has your mind
---francis on 12/17/11


Gordon, your whole explanation was full of works of the law. You must do this or you must do that and you can only do this on certain days, but not on other days. You are a slave to the law. Your suppose to help the poor on any day. That should come from your heart. Believers are convicted by the Spirit everyday. The only reason we move to do anything good for anyone is because of the Spirit and the reason we give Him the glory. You haven't been freed from the yoke of the law.
---Mark_V. on 12/19/11


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francis, all you are doing is repeating the same thing over and over and over about the Saturday sabbath, but you are NOT answering the question I have asked.

For God so loved the world that He gave us His Sabbath that whomsoever observeth it shall not perish but have eternal life - provided of course, it they survive the Investigative Judgment.
---lee1538 on 12/16/11


francis, all you are doing is repeating the same thing over and over and over about the Saturday sabbath, but you are NOT answering the question I have asked.

What day may we keep UNHOLY according to the Bible?
---Cluny on 12/16/11


Acts 18:2 And he found a Jew named Aquila, a native of Pontus, recently come from Italy with his wife Priscilla, because Claudius had commanded all the Jews to leave Rome.

ESV Study Bible footnote:

Claudius's expulsion of the Jews from Rome in AD 49 seems to have resulted from a disturbance in the Jewish synagogues created by the Christian message.

We can only speculate what this disturbance in the synagogue was but I think it likely it was dispute over the law. And that primarily is why Paul in Romans 14 addressed the issue of observing the Sabbath and the Levitical dietary laws - something the Jews demanded of converts to Christianity.

According to Romans 14:5-6 holy days were not forced onto the church.
---lee1538 on 12/15/11


One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.

But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God.

Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this--not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother's way. I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
---Rod4Him on 12/15/11


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Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
--Remember the sabbath day, to keep 'the man' holy?
--I would think it better rendered 'Remember the sabbath day, to keep -the day- holy'.
--What does 'it' refer to in this verse?
--Grammatically speaking, it is a neuter pronoun used as a verbal compliment completing the infinitive verbal thought 'to keep' in reference to what 'you', as the pronoun subject understood, is to do with the sabbath day.
--So, it would seem from a grammatical standpoint that 'it' is a pronoun taking the place of the noun 'day' and its modifier 'sabbath'.
--Some here would have you believe, against all reason and logic, that it is man, and not the sabbath, being referenced in this verse.
---micha9344 on 12/15/11


francis, if you are born of the Spirit you should try to keep everyday holy. That should be your goal the same as everyone else's.
"Who hath saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began" ( 2 Tim. 1:9). Secondly it is free, for none did ever purchase it. "Being justified freely by His grace" ( Rom. 3:24) It is also sovereign, because God exercises it toward and bestows it upon whom He pleases.
---Mark_V. on 12/15/11


Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
There must be something we can do to make it unholy if the directive is to keep it holy.
---micha9344 on 12/14/11

the command is not given TO THE DAY, it is given to HUMAN to keep it holy

yet the day is holy whether you keep it or not,
---francis on 12/14/11


Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
There must be something we can do to make it unholy if the directive is to keep it holy.
---micha9344 on 12/14/11


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francis //ONLY ONE DAY is blessed and sanctified by God. The DAY is holy.

NOT TRUE!

Romans 14:5 NLT In the same way, some think one day is more holy than another, while others think every day is alike You should each be fully convinced that whichever day you choose is acceptable.

(14:5)GWV One person decides one day is holier than another. Another person decides that all days are the same. Every person must make his own decision.

(14:5) CEV Some of the Lord's followers think one day is more important than another. Others think all days are the same. But each of you should make up your own mind.

Unless you have that bias Clear Word Bible, no version agrees with you that Saturday is a holy day.


---lee1538 on 12/14/11


Cluny, During the first six days of the week (Sunday thru Friday), we are to do all of whatever work we have to do. Also, whatever buying and selling we want to do must be done on the first 6 days. But, on the (7th Day) Sabbath, NO work, NO buying and NO selling. We are to, in whatever way, focus even more on the LORD on the Sabbath. On the Sabbath, we can do "Good Works" like Praying, Healing Ministry, Visiting the Poor, Sick and Needy, and the widows and the fatherless, etc. And, Good Works (as in what YAHUSHUA did during His first Advent), is not the same as the 9-to-5 work and labour we are to do for salary, etc. Two different things altogether.
---Gordon on 12/14/11


---Cluny on 12/13/11
OK for the THIRD TIME.

ONLY ONE DAY is blessed and sanctified by God. The DAY is holy. Man is to live holy every day, Your activities can neither make a day holy or unholy. What ever is holy is made holy by the word of God.

So if i spend all day in church Sunday fasting and praying, and helping the poor, that does not make sunday holy, because only the word of God can make a day holy

If I spent all day saturday watching football, that does not make the day unholy. God has already make it holy

You are comparing MAN's action to GOD's action
---francis on 12/14/11


//Man tends to justfy his action, rather than confess his sin
I go with the bible!!

If you go only to the Bible, then you really must depend upon your own interpretation designed to fit your own desired beliefs.

If you interpret the Bible in accordance to what the early church taught, those teachings being of the Apostles & their immediate successors, it is likely that you are interpreting the Bible correctly.

Since the Bible does not specify what day of the week the Lord's day is in Rev. 1:10, all we have to go on is what the early church believed it to be.

Thus there is no other conclusion that can be made except that the Lord's Day is Sunday - the day that later became known as the Christian Sabbath.
---lee1538 on 12/14/11


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francis, what you said,

"Man tends to justfy his action, rather than confess his sin I go with the bible!!"

That is exactly what I was saying to you. You don't want to acknowledge your sin, you need to confess it everyday. You think because you keep Saturday Sabbath, you have become holy and sinless. But be honest with yourself for once. Acting like a Pharisee who did the external things, but inside they need a circumcision of the heart. As I said before, you refuse to put your spiritual cap on. You have one, but very seldom use it.
---Mark_V. on 12/14/11


\\Let me put in another way.\\

And you STILL don't answer the question that was actually asked, francis.

Why?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/13/11


there is an unanimous agreement among the early church writers that the Lord's day is Sunday.
---lee1538 on 12/13/11

Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

MAN MAY and usually says what he wants, he makes his own commandments to teach. I choose what THE BIBLE SAYS

Isaiah 58:13 the sabbath,.. my holy day, the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable,

Bible says that that God's holy day ( THE LORD'S DAY) is the sabbath, man says it is sunday.


Man tends to justfy his action, rather than confess his sin
I go with the bible!!

WHO IS WITH ME?
Exodus 32:26 Who is on the LORD'S side?
---francis on 12/13/11


//There is No bible verse that says that Sunday is the Lord's day. That is a false human interpretation.

While true there is NO Bible verse that has declared Sunday to be the Lord's day, there is an unanimous agreement among the early church writers that the Lord's day is Sunday.

Is the Lord's day a human invention? Yes, since the Sabbath was no longer mandatory to the church, communal worship on the Lord's day became the tradition of the church, likely established by the Apostles themselves.

Should we be arguing about what day we need keep holy? No, since Romans 14:5-6 states it is an optional thing up to the convictions of the individual believer.

God honors true worship no matter the day we have chosen.
---lee1538 on 12/13/11


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Francis, what is the FIRST DAY OF THE WEE?

What did the disciples and the Apostle Paul do on THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEk? ACTS 20:7.
---Rob on 12/13/11


it is strange that even one of the people who write the NT (John) refers to sunday as 'the day of the Lord'
---Peter on 12/13/11
Luke 22:31 Peter, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:

There is No bible verse that says that sunday is the Lord's day. That is a false human interpretation

It would be strange for them to refer to the first day as the " lord's day."



Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines
---francis on 12/13/11


Peter, do you think that is why Paul wrote about being fully persuaded in our own minds?
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord, and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it]. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks, and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
--The Christians that were Jews probably enjoyed honoring the Sabbath, as they had done through faith before Christ, and the believing Gentiles saw the importance of the first day of the week, the day their Lord and Saviour arose.
---micha9344 on 12/13/11


While in the NT there isn't anything saying that the Sabbath is no longer holy, it is strange that even one of the people who write the NT (John) refers to sunday as 'the day of the Lord'

So there was already an idea that the Ressurection day was holy, though none of the writers actualy state which of the two days should be remembered
---Peter on 12/13/11


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If there's one holy day a week or a month or a year, why would God want to destroy this world as prophesied in His Scripture? The whole creation of God was cursed the day Adam and Eve disobeyed God.

Paul simply declared for our learning, "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness" Romans 1:18

Doesn't sound good for mankind right? And we can all see "His wrath" on a daily basis. Unless one is found inside of Christ by the grace of God, like Noah was in the ark (symbolic of Christ) - God's wrath must be expressed and demonstrated for all to see. Now and forever.
---christan on 12/12/11


What you're saying, francis, is that you cannot answer my question.

---Cluny on 12/12/11
Let me put in another way.

How many days of the week did God bless, sanctify and make holy?
ANSWER:1

What can man do to remove God's blessing on that day:
ANSWER: NOTHING

When man does not keep the sabbath, does sin fall on the sabbath or on the man:
ANSWER: THE MAN

When man rests on sunday does that make sunday holy:
Answer: NO

When man sins on sunday does that make sunday unholy:
ANSWER: NO it makes the man a sinner
---francis on 12/13/11


What you're saying, francis, is that you cannot answer my question.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/12/11


No! Paul wrote in Romans6:1"Shall we continue to sin that grace is abound?Surly not!How can we who died to sin still live in it?
I can see a religious person desiring to keep that one day for God so He can have the rest for himself,But I cant see a born again believer living for Crist one day and every other day they live for the devil.Sabbath means rest,a rest from sin.The writer wrote about the belivers rest in Hebrews 4 He tells us that the promise of Gods rest is "TODAY".
The Sabbath is Today and every other day you live for Christ, because thats when you find rest. Live for Christ Today and find rest.
---Redeemed_By_His_Blood on 12/12/11


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Is there a day we may keep in a totally unholy and profane, sinful manner, especially since Christ has come?

If we live unholy, and live in a profane sinful manner in a day which God did not declare to be holy, it is WE who are unholy. The day example sunday was never set aside as holy by God

AND

when we choose not to keep the sabbath day holy, it is we again who are unholy by living in sin. The day has been made holy, blessed and sanctified by God, our behaviour on that day does not affect or remove the blessing of God on that day. It only affects our relationship with God
---francis on 12/12/11


Well, there can be people who claim to be keeping the Sabbath, but they are looking down on those who do not do what they do. And their self-righteous criticizing and talking like they are superior can be a temptation for others to then get self-righteous against them. By association with a day of the week, they feel they are superior! This is what narcissists do > they piggy-back on the power of things and the reputation of others, using the Bible and religion to make themselves seem superior. Yes, I can do this.
---Bill_willa6989 on 12/12/11


People should not be keeping any day in an unholy manner, for God has not given anyone permission to sin. Sinners will do their sins and their disobedience on every day, but saints will do their good and righteousness on every day.
---Eloy on 12/12/11


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