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Pass Judgment On Sabbaths

Does Sabbaths in Colossians 2:16 refer to the festival Sabbaths or the weekly Sabbath?

Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.

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Leviticus 23:4 These are the feasts of the LORD,in their seasons.
THE LORD'S passover.
THE feast of unleavened bread Leviticus 23:7 ye shall do no servile work therein.

Leviticus 23:13 MEAT OFFERING and the DRINK OFFERING
the firstfruits

Leviticus 23:24 shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets,

Leviticus 23:27 a day of atonement: and ye shall do no work in that same day:

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat OFFERINGS, or in drink OFFERINGS, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath daySSS:
This is a reference to the EARTHLY SANCTUARY Hebrews 9:10 Which stood only in meat OFFERING and drink IFFERING thing NOT found in the weekly sabbath
---francis on 1/5/12


Lee the words Lee and rationality don't sit well together. Self-delusion is a popular sport with some.

Sadly I will have to continue this fun later as I am off for 9 days mountain-climbing in the Alps early tomorrow morning.
---Warwick on 1/5/12


Lee: "you have to obey the law if you want to be saved."

Let's turn that around. Aren't you saying that one must BREAK the law in order to be saved?


---jerry6593 on 1/5/12


Francis: Read Gal 2 and 3 and see its context.
You asked what law did Peter slip into?
Gal 2:16-21 explains. "a man is not justfied by works of the law"....if I build again the things I destroyed (law)...do no frustrate the grace of God".

And read on to Gal 3:3 "Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect in the flesh?"

This makes it clear where Peter went wrong. He "walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel" (of GRACE).
---Haz27 on 1/5/12


The criminal on the cross who called Jesus Lord was saved in spite of being a criminal till the day he died.
---Haz27 on 1/4/12

1: Give a list of EVERYONE who was baptized by John and by the apostles of Jesus. Does the name of the thief on the cross appear in it?

2: How did this theif know that the man( JESUS) dying next to him, will die and YET inherit an eternal kingdom?

3: How did he know that Jesus had "done nothing amiss?"

4: Why was he concerned about Luke 23:40 Dost not thou fear God? where could he have learned the FEAR of God?

5: Does it not seem that this "theif" is more spiritual aware than even the very disciples of Jesus who thought that the cross was the end of Jesus?
---francis on 1/4/12




Warwick//It is obvious such questions were very challenging.

Challenging in the same sense as trying to teach trainable retarded children.

My wife was a special education teacher and had to use certain techniques to reach those who really had few brains to works with.

You are apparently unable to understand that the periods of creation - all called days - could have been of different durations as I have tried to explain rationally so many time already.
---lee1538 on 1/4/12


How about saying that it's actually implying that no one is to pass judgment on those who are OBSERVING the Sabbath? I.e. As one regards the weekly Sabbath, don't let anyone judge you for that. Let no one say that you are wrong for observing the Sabbath. Huh? How about looking at that Statement in the Bible in THAT way?
---Gordon on 1/4/12


Gal 2, Peter was confronted before all for slipping back into the law which makes us transgressors (sin). We see this still happening today with legalists.
---Haz27 on 1/4/12
LOL I will give you till 2013 to tell me what LAW he slipped back into, and where it can be found in the bible.

Well, let me help you since it is clear that you biblical understanding has fallen short on this and many other scriptures.

There is NO LAW that says a jew cannot eat with a gentile.
This is what peter was doing, and when Paul and others came he stopped it.

How that I have helped you, post ANY POST where any SDA said that if you break any of the ten commandments you were never saved.
---francis on 1/4/12


Samuel: We see some of your SDA mates here claiming that if you fail to keep the 10 commandments you never were saved to begin with. Is this your understanding?

Interestingly these same legalists also fail to keep the law themselves, including the Sabbath.

The criminal on the cross who called Jesus Lord was saved in spite of being a criminal till the day he died. Yet the legalists contradict this salvation by grace alone.

Gal 2, Peter was confronted before all for slipping back into the law which makes us transgressors (sin). We see this still happening today with legalists.

Does you view of SDA doctrine differ from that of Francis?

---Haz27 on 1/4/12


//First the Seventh day Adventist church does not teach legalism.

I can believe that but it is not hard at all to find Adventists that are legalists. You only need to review some of the posts on this forum to see that.

One all too often gets this thing about one is not justified by works of the law however, you have to obey the law if you want to be saved.



---lee1538 on 1/4/12




Mark_V.: "You get mad,.."

You're making assumtions again like you have many times. Me? Mad? On the contrary. If you have met me in person or have talked with all the people I know, they would tell you I'm the most content person they know and rarely take offence.

Mark_V.: "...because you and John persecute the Church of Christ, the gathering of believers..."

As I have told you countless times in the past I don't persecute the true Church of Christ or am I against the gathering of christians, but I do have something against denominational churches. A huge difference. Denominational churches have divided christians into their own little cults.
---Steveng on 1/4/12


First the Seventh day Adventist church does not teach legalism. Legalism is the teaching that good works add to the work of JESUS on the cross for us. That good works make us better then others.

We teach that being Born again results in good works the same reason apple trees produce apples. It is the result of being an apple tree. Christians obey GOD because they are followers of JESUS.

No one was ever saved by the law. So those in the Old Testment were saved by grace through faith which is one of the points made by paul in Galations and Romans.
---Samuel on 1/4/12


Haz I have avoided nothing. I have pointed out that those who worship on Saturday will continue to do so and those who worship on Sunday will continue to do so. Datelines and such are a human construction and I am confident God is not concerned that Samoa moved one day forward. If I have not answered your point please make it now, more clearly. However I may not see it as we are off for 8 days of fun in the Alps early tomorrow. But how long are my 8 days some would ask.

If you refer to my blogs on the 10 Comandments you will see that I was asking questions. But received no answers. All I received was rudeness from you and others. It is obvious such questions were very challenging.
---Warwick on 1/4/12


Francis: We see an example of 1Tim 5:20 "rebuke before all" in Gal 2:14.
Peter was confronted before all for turning back to the law when those of the circumcision came.

And note how verses 16 onwards points out to Peter that a man is NOT justified by works of the law. And if you build up again the law in your life you make yourself a transgressor (sinner). This sin (legalism) is to be rebuked as it is unbelief in Jesus (John16:9). This message to Peter also applies to legalistic religions like the SDA's.

Do not frustrate the grace of God.
---Haz27 on 1/4/12


//Christians are to call to account those members of the body who have falling into sin. That includes those who would eat what God said not to eat

And we also need to rebuke those that light a fire in their homes on the Sabbath as that is clearly against the law????
---lee1538 on 1/4/12


1 Corinthians 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
1 Corinthians 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

Christians are to call to account those members of the body who have falling into sin. That includes those who would eat what God said not to eat

1 Timothy 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
---francis on 1/4/12


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//This verse shows we should not judge or look down upon those who feel convicted to live a certain way.//

Exactly...let each be convinced in their own mind, for each will give an account to God. People should not be judging one another for whatever they eat or don't eat. Judging for such things is what reveals what is in the heart of the individual.

Does Christ fill one's heart, or is it rules and regulations and religiousity, being consumed with telling others how they ought to live?
---Rod4Him on 1/4/12


Warwick, I see your missing or avoiding my point about that time zone change.

And I recall the last time we debated on legalism I pleaded with you numerous times to answer my questions. Your record on answering questions is not perfect as you claim.

And as you claim you do not observe the true Sabbath, but maintain a principle on Sunday instead, how does that look considering your doctrine that true Christians do not habitually break the 10 commandments?
Your willing transgression of the true Sabbath would then make you a serial transgressor of the law and thereby proving you never were Christian to begin with, according to your own doctrine.

---Haz27 on 1/4/12


Steven, you said,
"you poor soul" my soul is not poor, it's been redeemed by the blood of Christ. I do not go to the computer to learn what God has to say, I have His Word right in front of me. I also worship Him everyday. I don't pick Saturday to do it. He is my rest everyday.
You get mad, because you and John persecute the Church of Christ, the gathering of believers and I oppose your views. God tells us to feed His Church, you trash the church. You don't say a few are bad, you already condemned all of them. You are wrong and I will continue to oppose your views.
---Mark_V. on 1/4/12


Romans 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

Comparism here is not clean and unclean

it is MEAT and HERBS

This is NOT about clean or unclean, It is about meat sold in the marketplace, which may or may not have been offered to Pagan gods/ idols


1 Corinthians 10:19 What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing?


1 Corinthians 10:25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, [that] eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
---francis on 1/3/12


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Mark_V. [to my reponswe on 1/1/12].

You poor soul. You continue to twist my posts to your way of thinking, twisting the verses in the bible the same way. But I do have a strong suggestion as the Spirit expresses: take a six month sabbath and read the bible from beginning to end - just you and the Holy Spirit without concordances, author's opinionated books, dictionaries, other reference books and technology. Your thoughts will be more focused on the true meaning and understanding of God's word.
---Steveng on 1/3/12


Haz, the record would show I do answer questions. Most times I asked questions you either evaded them or asked another question.

My question was not about Samoa but about your birthday celebrated anywhere in the world. If you were here in Australia I am sure you would celebrate it when it occurred here. For the same reason those who hold to a Saturday sabbath will attend church on Saturday whereever they are.

I have not spoken with anyone in Samoa but imagine they went to church on either what was now Saturday, or Sunday, according to their beliefs as per Romans 14:5.

BTW I do not believe my Sunday of rest is the Sabbath, which is Saturday. I am just following the principle. It works for me.
---Warwick on 1/3/12


This is about UNWASED HANDS not about clean and uncelan foods. This is about a JEWISH TRADITION, which Jesus contrasted with the ten commandments:

Matthew 15:2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they WASH NOT their hands when they EAT BREAD. But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.

To wash your hand after touching a gentile is NOT a SIN
Matthew 15:20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

But to eat shrimp or swine is an abomination
---francis on 1/3/12


A look at Romans 14:5 shows it is not about what God commands, but what different individuals think. "One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind." This verse shows we should not judge or look down upon those who feel convicted to live a certain way.
---Warwick on 1/3/12


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//"Do you not see that whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile him, since it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled?" (Thus he declared all foods clean.)//

Romans 14:1-5 would probably be better than Mark and Matt. Mark is probably dealing with "kosher foods" that they believed could become unclean and thereby making a person unclean by not washing their hands. If Jesus had said they could eat swine, they probably would have had an immediate riot. To apply this to swine at that time would be like saying, cock roaches are now clean to eat.

Swine was a major staple of the Roman diet, therefore the Romans' passage would be a more appropriate scripture to use for eating all foods.
---Rod4Him on 1/3/12


Samuel - Since Colossians 2:16 also addresses the view that we are not to judge others for what they eat, would you also say that Jesus also nullified the Levitical food laws in Matthew 15:17f & Mark 7:18f?

"Do you not see that whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile him, since it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled?" (Thus he declared all foods clean.)

I can understand that some believe certain foods are not beneficial to us, but that does not have a direct spiritual application.
---lee1538 on 1/3/12


Samuel - Romans 14 does address the issues of the Sabbath and what we eat, Romans was written to a largely Gentile audience who did not convert to Judaism.

The Jews were kicked out of Rome by Claudius (Acts 18:2) and some expositors suggest that the reason being the tensions between Christian believers and Jews of the synagogues.

Eamon Duffy, church historian claims that the churches grew up around the Jewish synagogues but was soon dominated by Gentile believers.

I believe other legitimate arguments for not observing the sabbath lies with the function of the law being a temporary provision until believers could be justified by faith. Gal. 3 & 4.
---lee1538 on 1/3/12


I find Romans 14:5 to be the only legitimate argument for the doing away of the Sabbath. All others lack any biblical support and can be shown easily wrong by contrary verses.

As a proof text verse by itself it would be unassialble. But we must remeber that all verses must be taken in context of who said it, when they said it, what were they speaking on, who they were talking to and it must be compared with all other verses on the same topic to arrive at the true meaning.

Do you agree?
---Samuel on 1/3/12


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What do you do with the New Testament verse such as Romans 14:5 which indicates one may or may not observe any day as holy?
---lee1538 on 1/3/12

Romans 14 does NOT speak of the ten commandments. It speaks of days such as pentecost, day of atonement, and so on. These days are not part of the ten commandments as is the sabbath, and we are free toobserve them in memory or not.
---francis on 1/3/12


francis //If the sabbath is for Israel only, then what do we do with verses like these:

Isaiah 56:3 Neither let the NON-ISREALITE (i.e. the foreigner), that hath joined himself to the LORD,
---
The verse speaks of the proselyte to the nation of Israel. Whenever someone from a foreign country decided to become a citizen of Israel, they had to adopt the Jewish religion.

Whether the Sabbath will be observed in the New Earth is debateable since the verse that speaks of it can be translated differently.

What do you do with the New Testament verse such as Romans 14:5 which indicates one may or may not observe any day as holy?
---lee1538 on 1/3/12


If the sabbath is for Israel only, then what do we do with verses like these:

Isaiah 56:3 Neither let the NON-ISREALITE, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people:.. the NON-ISREALITE, that join themselves to the LORD,..and love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, EVERY ONE that KEEPETH THE SABBATH from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant, Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer


If the sabbath is a shadow what do we do with verses like these that show observance of sabbath IN THE NEW EARTH:

Isaiah 66:22 the new earth,..from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship..

??????
---francis on 1/2/12


Be careful Warwick. Your own history of not answering questions put's you into the same category of "your kind" as you labelled me.

Re your birthday analogy, last Friday 30th was deleted and became Saturday 31st instead. No doubt those with birthdays on Fri 30th celebrated them regardless of that day being deleted.
Anyway, I have no dispute about what day falls where in various time zones, even though a day was DELETED. I was curious what SDA's thought of it considering their obsession.

My suggestion, which you missed, was Sabbath can be one day in 7 (even Sunday, in support of your view), because when time zones and governments changing days etc occur we enter into ambiguity about the 7th day anyway.

---Haz27 on 1/3/12


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larry//For what its worth, how could there be a downside to the Jew or Gentile in observing the Sabbath?
---
The downside is when others say that in order to be a faithful Christian one has to observe the Jewish Sabbath. However, they cannot point to a single NT scripture that commands it.

Whenever you advocate a salvation of faith-works instead of a salvation by Christ alone, you really step out of the Christian faith as proclaimed by the scripture.

Scripture is very clear that one need not observe any day as holy, nor is there any restictions on what foods we may eat - Romans 14:5-6
---lee1538 on 1/2/12


Larry, could you give an example of 'vitriol?"

Good point, what is the downside of anyone taking a Sabbath break. Why do some here fume about the very idea?
---Warwick on 1/2/12


Good question but the vitriol over the interpretation of scripture is a horrible witness to the love among Christians.

Good grief.

For what its worth, how could there be a downside to the Jew or Gentile in observing the Sabbath?
---larry on 1/2/12


Typical of your kind Haz you don't answer questions.

Again I ask "If your birthday was 1st January would you celebrate it 1st January whereever you were in the world, or when it was 1st January where you were born?"
---Warwick on 1/2/12


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//Jesus wrote the Ten Commandments with His own finger.

If God has written the 10 commandments with his own toe, would that have made any difference?

Is anything else He commanded of lesser importance?

If the 10 commandments were paramount, then why did God made a New Covenant with His creation, choosing instead to replace the ministry of death & condemnation written on letters of stone with the more glorious ministry of the Spirit (2 Cor. 3:7f)?

You probably do not have an answer do you Jerry as you are too stuck in the tarpits of Adventism?
---lee1538 on 1/2/12


Samuel, the news media raised this question hence I put it on CN.

The Samoan government deleted Friday, making it Saturday instead. Hence that week was a 6 day week only. From here on it will be 7 days a week.

The SDA's place much importance however on the Sabbath being Saturday.
But the likes of Warwick who worships Sunday Sabbath is considered in sin by SDA's for doing so.

As this Samoan day changing suggests, anyone who wants to worship a Sabbath can do so one day in 7, even should that be Sunday. After all the Samoan SDA's are now worshipping Saturday Sabbath on what was formerly known as Friday in that 6 day week 2011.
---Haz27 on 1/2/12


MarkV: " .... Why can you not get that? How can you understand salvation if you do not understand that?"

Jesus wrote the Ten Commandments with His own finger. He affirmed that not one jot or tittle of the law would change while heaven and earth remained. He did not later change His mind and allow transgression of the law (sin) in order to provide salvation. Quite the opposite! His sacrifice on the cross paid our penalty for breaking the law - not by eliminating it, but by upholding its principles of justice. If the law could be expunged by simple fiat, and unbridled sin be permitted as you imply, then Christ need not have died on the cross.

How can you understand salvation if you do not understand that?
---jerry6593 on 1/2/12


Steven, you speak nonsense. Just because you do not like for me to question your opposition to the Church of Christ, the gathering of believers, you want to side with the those who oppose the Spirit of the Law. But you are wrong when you say'
"What is wrong about spending one day of your precious time on earth with God the Father - just you and him?"
If a person is born of the Spirit, he spends everyday on the earth with Christ. If you have to spend only one day with Him, then you are trying to earn favor by your works. "Yes Lord, I will give you one day" I will spend the rest of the week doing what I want. You have a warp view of our relationship with Christ. Go ahead and give Him one day.
---Mark_V. on 1/2/12


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Thank you Warwick good point.

Hazz by recognizing that the days of the week on a round world have to have somewhat artificial borders in out time of clocks.

Just like the SDA up in Alaska keep one 24 hour period since on some days the sun does not rise or set for over a month.
---Samuel on 1/2/12


Haz, I am not SDA but think your question makes little sense. If your birthday was 1st January would you celebrate it 1st January whereever you were in the world, or when it was 1st January where you were born?
---Warwick on 1/1/12


What is wrong about keeping the Saturday Sabbath, one day a week of rest from the most hectic time in history?

What is wrong about keeping the Saturday Sabbath just in case it is what it is suppose to be, in which most christians are wrong about it?

What is wrong about spending one day of your precious time on earth with God the Father - just you and him?

You spend six days developing a relationship with others, why not spend one day developing a genuine relationship with God the Father?

Do this and you'll be blessed with rich rewards from God. (not the worldly riches just in case Mark V will somehow twist my reply. ,))
---Steveng on 1/1/12


A question for the SDA's here.
Samoa changed time zones this week to be inline with New Zealand/Australia. Hence last Friday dissappeared for Samoans.

This means that the SDA's on Samoa observe Sabbath on Friday, which is now called Saturday. And what was formerly Saturday Sabbath is now called Sunday, according to their government's decision for a time zone change

Just curious how the SDA's deal with this.
---Haz27 on 12/31/11


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Jerry, to the new believer all Scripture is profitable, no one denies that. If you don't know what happen in the Old Testament, it's pretty hard to understand the New. If something part was not meant for us to hear, God would have not had it written. The law was not meant to save anyone. Not one soul. Since all are under the curse of the Law without Christ. You and other wants new believers to continue living under the curse, as if it could save you. Jesus came to be a curse for you and me, for the simple reason we could not keep the whole law. If we could, He would not have had to die in our place. Why can you not get that? How can you understand salvation if you do not understand that?
---Mark_V. on 12/30/11


One of my greatist problems with people who use this verse to say we should not keep Sabbath then go against what the verse says.

I read here many pass Judgement on all SDA on questions of food, drink and Sabbath. I have been judged as a child of Satan as a judgement on me for the Sabbath day.

I do not propose to judge others on these questions I simply wish to state what the Bible says and say it in a loving manner. GOD will be the judge that is not up to me.
---Samuel on 12/30/11


Lee, Col. 2:16 refers to the weekly celebration of the seventh day, which pictured God's rest from creation. The N.T. clearly teaches that Christians are not required to keep (Acts 20:7: Rom. 14:5,6). "The new moon" was the monthly sacrifice offered on the first day of each month (Num. 10:10: 28:11-14) "festival" refers to the annual religious celebrations of the Jewish calendar (passover, Pentecost, or Tabernacles, Lev. 23). The passage says "Let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ"
and ends with, that those who accuse you are taking delight in false humanility"
---Mark_V. on 12/31/11


Lee: "Your silly religious beliefs are all based on the Old Testament teachings"

Yep! They are the same "silly" beliefs that my Savior Jesus held. Don't you realize that your entire religious belief system is founded on denying the Word of God - on trying to make the New Testament contradict the Old. Christ and the Apostles never did. They affirmed and even quoted from the OT. Even Paul, whom you quote as the sole authority for calling the OT a book of lies, affirmed the the OT as profitable scripture.

It is no wonder that you are so confused, when your religion is one of contradictions, and your god is a god of lies.


---jerry6593 on 12/30/11


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//Also there are statment in the History of the Early Church about Sabbath and keeping it.

All church historians will tell you the earliest church was all Jewish and followed in the Mosaic traditions including observance of Saturday, however, the same cannot be said of the Gentile church.

//Even in the third century a command is made against keeping Sabbath. Why would people be commanded not to do something they were not doing?

Yes, there was a negative reaction against those who attempted to Judaize the church.
---lee1538 on 12/26/11


francis//I do not think that they mean that, but because they have choosen to disregard ONE commandment, namely the 4th commmandment, they are then forced to reject the law that says we must worship only one God

WHY?
---
1 Corinthians 4:6 I have applied all these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, brothers, that you may learn by us not to go beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up in favor of one against another.

And where in the New Covenant is there a command that one needs to observe the Jewish Sabbath?

A simple question should have a simple and straightforward answer. New Testament book, chapter & verse please.
---lee1538 on 12/26/11


The Gospels are full of the Sabbath and how to keep it. But that does not apply to the church according to what is said here.

Also there are statment in the History of the Early Church about Sabbath and keeping it.

Even in the third century a command is made against keeping Sabbath. Why would people be commanded not to do something they were not doing?
---Samuel on 12/25/11


It is only those who are carnal minded, who would do their own pleasure on the sabbath who would try to speak against the law of Gof.

The bible says that we must examine ourself to see whether or not we are in the faith

When i read some of the posts that are posted, I see some going as far as saying that we are not to keep the ten commandments. I do not think that they mean that, but because they have choosen to disregard ONE commandment, namely the 4th commmandment, they are then forced to reject the law that says we must worship only one God

WHY?

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
---francis on 12/23/11


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Jerry //Are you blind?

That is the question I would pose to you. Ever try reading the previous verses to Exodus 20:8-11?

Exodus 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

Now, Jerry, do you believe Gentiles were slaves in the land of Egypt?

Can not you see that the commandments are addressed to the Hebrew nation and not to Gentile believers?

Your silly religious beliefs are all based on the Old Testament teachings as apparently you like Francis, believe you are Jewish and that Christian believers must convert to Judaism to be legit.

If you were not blind, you would be able to see that not all things in the Bible pertain to the church.
---lee1538 on 12/23/11


Jerry, you continue with the Old Testament Laww, and continue trying to put a yoke on the believer when we are told it was wiped out by Christ.
"Having wipe out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross...." ( Col. 2:14,15).
We, as believers, are therefore not to obey false teachers of the law, in that we were bought at such a high cost with the view of accomplishing the will of God.
The denial by you, of the fact of the purchase of Christ is therefore describe as a heresy of such proportion as to bring its teachers under swift Judgment of God. ( 2 Peter 2:1).
---Mark_V. on 12/25/11


Lee: "it is only good sense to admit that if the Sabbath command was given at Creation, then we would certainly see it commanded, but we do not"

Are you blind?

Exo 20:8-11 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Do you know Who wrote this COMMAND with His own finger?
---jerry6593 on 12/23/11


it is only good sense to admit that if the Sabbath command was given at Creation, then we would certainly see it commanded, but we do not. And that is because, the Sabbath was the sign of the covenant between God and Israel that was established centuries later.

Furthermore, its observance was not instituted until the time of Moses.

In any case, it is just too easy to see that the Sabbath command was not given to the church. If it had been, then we would most certainly see some reference to that in the New Testament epistles as well as in the writings of the early church. As we do not, there is virtually no other logical conclusion that can be made except that the church was not obligated to observe any day as holy.
---lee1538 on 12/22/11


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Wrong again as usual as the Sabbath is not even mentioned in the creation account.
---lee1538 on 12/22/11
Genesis 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
---francis on 12/22/11


Jerry - //God says that the Sabbath was instituted at creation - NOT at Mt. Sinai as you preach. Either God is a liar or YOU are. Sorry Lee, but I've got to go with God.

Wrong again as usual as the Sabbath is not even mentioned in the creation account.

What you are doing in your idolizing of the Sabbath is reading into a text things that are not there.

God rested and sanctified the 7th day at Creation,however, those that have come to believe have entered that rest as depicted by God's rest at Creation. Ever read Hebrews 4?

Sorry but the Bible is very clear that the Sabbath was but a sign of the covenant God made only with Israel, it was not mandated to the church that much is just too easy to see.
---lee1538 on 12/22/11


Lee: "The Sabbath as a command however, originated with the nation of Israel. Prior to the time of Moses, it was not even heard of or even observed."

Not according to the Bible.

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

God says that the Sabbath was instituted at creation - NOT at Mt. Sinai as you preach. Either God is a liar or YOU are. Sorry Lee, but I've got to go with God.


---jerry6593 on 12/22/11


steveng - yes, God did tell the Hebrews to remember the Sabbath command as it was "a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the Lord sanctify you." Exodus 31:13-17.

"And as a sign of the covenant the Sabbath can only be meant for Israel, with whom the covenant was made."

"To break the Sabbath, the sign of the covenant, meant to violate the covenantal relationship, to reject the spiritual renewal of the covenant, and hence the penalty was death." (From Sabbath to Lord's day, p. 30)

Genesis 2 does not teach a 'creation ordinance'.
---lee1538 on 12/21/11


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lee1538: "The Sabbath as a command..."

If you properly read the commandment it says to REMEMBER the Sabbath.

lee1538: "...however, originated with the nation of Israel. Prior to the time of Moses, it was not even heard of or even observed."

What did God say about the Sabbath on the seventh day of creation? To REMEMBER the Sabbath as written in the Ten commandments means that it was observed before Moses' time.
---Steveng on 12/21/11


Steveng //The 7th day Sabbath was thousands of years before the birth of Moses. The seventh day Sabbath was from the beginning, and is even now, and will continue into the future forever as written by John in Revelation ...

The Sabbath as a command however, originated with the nation of Israel. Prior to the time of Moses, it was not even heard of or even observed.

"Since all available sources have failed to produce conclusive evidence for an alternative origin of the Sabbath, we suggest that the Sabbath originated with Israel and that with the Sabbath came the 7-day week." (DA Carson, From Sabbath to Lord's Day, p.24)

When the Israelites were in Egypt they operated under a 10 day week, not a 7 day week. (p.24)
---lee1538 on 12/21/11


There are no inocent bistanders in Hell

Isaiah 5:24 Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, [so] their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.
---francis on 12/21/11


The seventh day Sabbath has nothing to do with the Mosaic laws. The seventh day Sabbath was thousands of years before the birth of Moses. The seventh day Sabbath was from the beginning, and is even now, and will continue into the future forever as written by John in Revelation and the earlier prophets.

By the way, if you overlay the Jewish calendar over the Gregorian calendar you'll find that the sabbath is Saturday. But because of the evil hearts of man, they don't want to give up that day for God.
---Steveng on 12/20/11


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The Old Covenant observances such as the weekly Sabbath and festival sabbaths pointed to a future reality that was fulfilled in Christ (cf.Hebr.10:1).

Hence Christians are no longer under the Mosaic covenant (cf. Romans 6,14-15, 7:1-6, 2 Cor. 3:4-18, Gal. 3:15-4:7)and are no longer obligated to observe OT dietary laws, or festivals, holidays, and special days (festivals, new moon, Sabbath) for what these things foreshadowed has been fulfilled in Christ.

It is interesting that more SDA scholars such as Bacchiocchi now agrees with this interpretation of Colossians 2:16-17. (p. 360, From Sabbath to Sunday)
---lee1538 on 12/20/11


"The Sabbath merely depicted the rest of God at creations for those who have believed." lee1538

Lee, the Sabbath rest is our Lord Jesus Christ. This rest that the Father gave is that for man, it is impossible to be justified by the laws of God. And to confirm that the Sabbath rest is Christ, it was He who said,

"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me, for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." Matthew 11:28-30

The final fulfilment of the Sabbath rest is Jesus Christ aka the Lord of the Sabbath.
---christan on 12/20/11


The context of Colossians 2:16 starts with Col 2:4 and ends with Col 3:17.

What is being taught here is the believer is not to be deluded by any teaching other than Christ.

Colossea in its day was a mix of peoples and cultures. Greek philosophy, gnosticism, astrology, angel worship, and Jewish tradition all factored into problems the church. These forces played a very powerful adversary against the true doctrine of Christ for the church.

In our day, we also have many voices that can lead us astray. We would be best served if we listen to what the HS can teach us in this passage.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/19/11


Christan //Hence, Colossians 2:16 must be accompanied by verse 17, "Which are a shadow of things to come, but the body is of Christ. and so forth till 23.

Very Good!

But this view if correct would tell us that the Sabbaterians follow the shadow, not the reality.

The Sabbath merely depicted the rest of God at creations for those who have believed.

Hebrews 4:3 For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said, As I swore in my wrath, They (Israel who observed the 7th day sabbath) shall not enter my rest, although his works were finished from the foundation of the world.
---lee1538 on 12/19/11


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The Apostle Paul was speaking to the Jews who had been converted to Christianity. What he is saying is do not let them "judge you" or pay no attention when the Jews judged the Christians for not observing the Jewish Sabbaths. Christ is the fulfillment of the law. We don't need to observe the Passover. Christ is our Passover. We don't need to observe the feast of tabernacles. Christ is our rest and our refuge, etc.
---trey on 12/19/11


Yes. Both. But the verse does not offer you license to invent your own (or adopt someone else's) holy day. Paul is here not condemning the DAYS, but rather the man-made practices attached to them, just like Jesus scorned the pharisaical practices of ritual washings, etc. Notice:

Col 2:21,22 (Touch not, taste not, handle not, Which all are to perish with the using,) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

It is the commandments of men that are condemned - not the sabbaths. (P.S. Sunday sacredness is a commandment of men.)


---jerry6593 on 12/20/11


In the Torah, the first and last day of the pilgrim feasts are called "sabbaths", so obviously, Col 2:16 refers to ALL sabbaths of the Old Law.

The real question is why do SDAs pick and choose which of the Sabbaths they will observe.

Sabbath, btw, means "stop work" or "cessation", not "worship".

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/17/11


This verse gives us the freedom to do the food, drink, festival (religious holidays), new moon (secular holidays), or Sabbath the way we want to do them. Verse 17 explains why we can do these things because our god is God not man. This frees us from the legality of the many rules created by the Pharisees.
---Scott1 on 12/18/11


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//Another significant indication pointing against annual ceremonial Sabbaths //

doesn't the verse include both?

"with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath."

i don't care what experts or doctrinal blee bee blah say, the verse is enough for me.
---aka on 12/18/11


Colossians 2:16 MUST like all other verses in the Holy Scripture be read in context of the complete chapter. Colossians is an epistle, meaning "a letter, especially a formal or didactic one, written communication".

Epistles written by the apostles of Christ, revealed the wonderful mysteries that were hidden in the OT, now revealed by the Holy Spirit. The mysteries revealed is about the law and grace.

Hence, Colossians 2:16 must be accompanied by verse 17, "Which are a shadow of things to come, but the body is of Christ. and so forth till 23.

If someone wants to justify the sabbath, they will only use verse 16 but by reading through the whole chapter, we know that's not what Paul was teaching.
---christan on 12/19/11


I can see that "a festival" would be understood to include any Sabbath that's connected with that festival. And "Sabbath" could refer to any weekly day of rest.

And not allowing anyone to pass judgment on me can mean not letting anyone judge me for not keeping a Sabbath. But it could also mean to keep the Sabbath so no one can judge me for not keeping it.

So, we need to pray with honesty to get this right. And we are reaping emotionally, now, according to what God knows we really are sowing about this. Ones can be judgmental and narcissistic in how they are for or against keeping a Sabbath. And they are reaping accordingly, either way.

Jesus gives us "rest for your souls" (in Matthew 11:29).
---Bill_willa6989 on 12/17/11


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