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Evolutionary Theory Of Creation

Are those who believe in the evolutionary account of Creation rather than the biblical one members of a CULT?

Moderator - No. However, they would be the most confused since they would be mixing part truths. Why not learn the rest of the facts? Evolution is only a theory not a fact and a bad theory at that.

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 ---jerry6593 on 12/23/11
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Lee, your regular abuse is an encouragement. You are so entertainingly pompous.

Exodus 20:11 reads "For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..." And you have already agreed that these (where God refers to His original 6 days of creation) are 24hr days! But strangely you expect us to believe God's first mentioned 6 days of creation aren't all 24hrs long, but when He again mentions them they magically become 24hrs each!

Even for you Lee this is somewhat odd!
---Warwick on 1/4/12


So lee, you didnt get back to me.
So would you agree whit this?
Whatever rotation earth had on days 3, it had on day 4, whether the sun was there or not?
Now, I am not talking about the duration of daylight, Im talking only the duration of rotation!
Would you agree?
---TheSeg on 1/4/12


//Why do I keep referring to Exodus 20:11 regarding the 24hr length of the days of creation? Because it says they are 24hr days, as you agree.

STUPID!!!the verse has nothing to do with the fact that the first 3 creation periods were undefined.

You should learn how to think.
---lee1538 on 1/4/12


Why do I keep referring to Exodus 20:11 regarding the 24hr length of the days of creation? Because it says they are 24hr days, as you agree. Short term memory problems? Let me refresh it for you, you wrote "Since Exodus 20:11 was written when the concept that a day was a 24 hour duration period, you may take it as written."

The strange thing is that you infer neither God nor Adam initially knew how long one day was!
---Warwick on 1/4/12


kathr4453//And what exactly does the first three days have to do with the last 4.

Virtually nothing, as the first 3 periods or days were of a totally different nature than the last 3.

In reality the definition of what constituted a day was changed.

I do not believe that the duration of the creation days has anything at all to do with the Sabbath which was patterned after the rest of God on the 7th day.

It is hard to understand why they keep referring to Exodus 20 as proof that all the creation days had to be of 24 hours in duration.
---lee1538 on 1/4/12




Your assumption here is that the matter that made up the sun was already available. I believe God at His word, brought whatever existed into being. He did not have to use existing matter.
Lee

No, I said:
If the earth had a rotation! It wouldnt make a difference to it, whether the suns matter was there or not.
You understand this, right?


Since the sun was in place after the 4th day, I believe it reasonable to believe days became 24 hours. It is the sun in part that defines what we view as a day.--.

Didnt God make a division?
Gen_1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Still the first day!
---TheSeg on 1/4/12


I suppose that it is the problem with those who have made the Jewish Sababth into some kind of idol as even many SDAs believe it must be observed if we are saved or to be saved.
---lee1538 on 1/4/12


And what exactly does the first three days have to do with the last 4. If God rested on the 7th and sanctified it, it's clear the 7th was a 24 hour period.

I believe you are confused leej thinking if you confuse the first 3 that you have somehow destroyed the belief in the sabbath rest given to Israel. WHY would that take away God's command to Israel?

ARE the length of days different after Jesus Resurrection?
---kathr4453 on 1/4/12


Lee, you make no sense. You are on record (as I have reprinted) saying the 6 days of creation in Exodus 20:11 are 24hr days. But then you say the first 3 creation days were not 24hr days.

In Exodus 20:11 God commands the Israelites to work for 6 24hr days, and rest the seventh. He says they are to do so for this reason, (referring back to the creation week) "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day...."

How can you agree the creation week in Exodus 20:11 is six 24 hour days but the creation week to which God is basing it upon is not six 24hr days? Truly bizarre.

---Warwick on 1/4/12


//Lee, are you saying you believe days 4, 5 and 6 had a 24hour duration or rotation?

Since the sun was in place after the 4th day, I believe it reasonable to believe days became 24 hours. It is the sun in part that defines what we view as a day. However, we know nothing about earth's rotation prior during these first 3 periods.

//If so, then why would it make a difference, if the matter that makes up the sun was on or off?

Your assumption here is that the matter that made up the sun was already available. I believe God at His word, brought whatever existed into being. He did not have to use existing matter.
---lee1538 on 1/4/12


Lee, are you saying you believe days 4, 5 and 6 had a 24hour duration or rotation?

If so, then why would it make a difference, if the matter that makes up the sun was on or off?
If the earth had a rotation! It wouldnt make a difference to it, whether the suns matter was there or not.

For the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth. No slowing yet!
Also, if matter exists, so does time and space.
My point being, whatever rotation, the earth had on day 4, 5 and 6, it had on 1, 2 and 3.

Is this why, you say duration, not rotation.
If only he had not said And the evening and the morning
---TheSeg on 1/4/12




TheSeq//Can you tell me what this light is, this cant be the sun right?

I cannot locate the verse but somewhere I read that God is light, that He dwells in a light that is extremely bright.

While the light source is different, those first 3 day were totally different than those of the last 3 days. We are, in my opinion, dealing with events before the beginning of time.

So there is really no good reason to believe the early days had to be of 24 hour duration as God spoke the world into existence, He did not have to look at His watch between events, howbeit, described the sequence of events as 'days' and that for the understanding of those who would read of it.
---lee1538 on 1/4/12


Jerry//Yet you did not give any rationale why you would not accept God's account of a six-equal-days Creation. Strange.

What is not strange is your refusal to read my posts.

The rationale is very straightforward as I stated time and again that the Genesis record does not mention the duration of the first 3 days. And since that is the case, we cannot say that those early periods had to be 24 hours in duration.

All too many of your religious beliefs are based on ASSUMPTIONS, not on facts.

I suppose that it is the problem with those who have made the Jewish Sababth into some kind of idol as even many SDAs believe it must be observed if we are saved or to be saved.
---lee1538 on 1/4/12


//The original apostles had no formal education.

When Peter stood and preached at pentecost..(being filled with the Holy Spirit)) men were amazed and asked..."aren't these ueducated men"?
---
While they did not have an academic credentials, they did have for 3 longs years the best teacher that ever existed. And that alone, at least would be equivalent to any formal education.

My father had only a 4th grade education, however, he was very successful at his occupation and seemed to know something about everything.

Formal education is one thing but there are those who continue to learn and that by their own efforts. And then there are those with multiple degrees that are viewed as idiots.
---lee15387 on 1/4/12


Thank you to those who replied to my questions. Your comments are appreciated.
---chris on 1/4/12


Lee, maybe you can help me with something.
Everyone has always said the sun was created in Gen_1:16, the fourth day. Right!

In Gen_1:3, the first day: And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Can you tell me what this light is, this cant be the sun right?
Because, that would mean, the greater light to rule the day, in Gen_1:16.
Would have to mean something else, wouldnt it?
And the lesser light to rule the night. The stars also!

And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
---TheSeg on 1/4/12


The original apostles had no formal education.

When Peter stood and preached at pentecost..(being filled with the Holy Spirit)) men were amazed and asked..."aren't these ueducated men"?

Paul was educated before his salvation, not after. And it was because of that higher education that stood in Paul's way. God BROKE an educated man and brought Paul down to the dirt on the road to Demascus.

He Exalts the humble, and humbles the proud.

Then Paul spent 14 years behind a mountain learning from GOD, not man.

God took Paul up to the 3rd heaven...not MIT!

Paul's salvation was worked out in the school of LIFE and hard knocks. AND what Paul writes and teaches us came from his suffering, not BOOKS!
---kathr4453 on 1/4/12


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Lee: "Astronomers tell us about new universes being created all the time."

Do you believe them? Who do they say does the creating?

I see that your official position on the earth's rotation rate during the first three days of Creation is AGNOSTIC. Yet you did not give any rationale why you would not accept God's account of a six-equal-days Creation. Strange.

---jerry6593 on 1/4/12


//Lee, may I ask you, why do you think its silly?

Simply because most of us do not have the time and other resources to go back to school for 4 years or more and take courses that involve theology.

Why re-invent the wheel? Makes more sense to take advantage of the research done by others and supplement it with your own study.

And yes we can agree that knowledge in itself is not a measure of spirituality, thro some of the eggheads think it is.
---lee1538 on 1/3/12


It would be silly of us to even try to travel down the same roads the teachers that Lord has called into the ministry by taking the same courses,
lee1538 on 1/3/12

Lee, may I ask you, why do you think its silly?
Is it possible for there be, more than one way, to look at the truth?
I really dont think so. Peace

(Rom 12:16) Be of the same mind one toward another.--
(2Co 13:11)-- be of one mind, live in peace, and the God of love and peace shall be with you.
(Php 1:27)-- with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel,
(Php 2:2)-- that ye be likeminded,-- of one mind.
(1Pe 3:8) Finally, be ye all of one mind,--
---TheSeg on 1/3/12


Chris, I understand your comment about the time, as I also do not really care about it.
For convenience I use six/seven days, as it is simpler than other ideas, but it doesn't really mean I care that much
It is not really necessary to know it all, as long as we know WHO did the CREATIING
---Peter on 1/3/12


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Thank you for taking the time to reply to my questions Lee. I do have a belief in Genesis and creation, I am not sure of time scale I admit. I am not sure it matters either unless you are trying to prove or disprove which i am not.
---chris on 1/3/12


Chris, Scripture is God's word, written for us, not for God. It is written in terms we see e.g. sunrise. Who sees the sunrise on earth? We do.

That Jericho is x thousand years old is but the opinion of men who weren't there, whose opinons constantly change, as new evidence contradicts old. God does not make mistakes and He links Adam and Jesus via His genealogies which cover c4,000 years. Who should we trust, falible sinful man who was not there or our perfect God who makes no mistakes and was there? Too easy.

Scripture says Adam was made on the 6th day of the creation week.
---Warwick on 1/3/12


---And that in part is why we have different versions of things in the 4 gospel accounts.
---lee1538 on 1/3/12


Yes and John 1..In the Beginning was the WORD and tHE Word was with God and the WORD WAS GOD

Maybe MarkV thinks the Beginning was when God created the Heavens and earth?

BUT God/ WORD/ Holy Spirit have no BEGINNING OF DAYS or end of days.

Does Markv believe when God was made flesh, that He was then created or thinks He was a created being at that time...? THEN it's MarkV who dies not believe in teh DEITY OF CHRIST.

Oh Please! THIS VERSE REALLY BOTHERS MARKV!!!
---kathr4453 on 1/3/12


I agree God is eternal, if he was not how could we be offered eternal life.
It always amazes me that some scientists cannot wait to prove the Big Bang theory, because they believe it disproves God's creation. They seem to lose track of the fact that God is infinite. That he encompasses everything not only here but beyond.
---chris on 1/3/12


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//we stop showing ourselves as carnal babies in saying. I'm of Calvin...I'm of Barnes NOTES, I'm of the WCF, but to truly say,I will not bend teh knee to BAAL or any earthly worship.

It would be silly of us to even try to travel down the same roads the teachers that Lord has called into the ministry by taking the same courses, reading the same books, etc. as it is of far less effort to gleam the reasons they have learned.

While no teacher is infallible, we need to be spiritually discerning realizing that others may look at a subject from a totally different prospective. And that in part is why we have different versions of things in the 4 gospel accounts.
---lee1538 on 1/3/12


Any reasonably knowledgeable Christian knows God is eternal, not living in days of any length. If He did He would not be eternal. 2 Peter 3:8 testifies to this "with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day" i.e. God is outside of time.

Scripture was written for man, not for God-e.g. Genesis 1 was written for man in man's terms describing things from man's perspective.

Day-length is controlled by the rate of the earth's rotation in relation to a fixed light source, just as Genesis 1:3-5 says. That the days of creation are 6 24hr days is confirmed by Exodus 20:11. If God was not commanding the Israelites to work for 6 24hr days and rest the 7th, what did He mean?
---Warwick on 1/3/12


Either we have a Forrest Gump on line here or MarkV is just argumentative to the point of becoming obnoxious.



John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God
Revelation 19:13
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Now Markv, please show at least 2 scriptures that say ETERNAL SON?

Seems as though MarkV has a PROBLEM with Gods NAME.

He is the Alpha and Omega,
The FIRST and LAST, the BEGINNING AND THE END!

2 verses minimum MarkV, and not subjective verses either. I gave ABSOLUTE verses stating His NAME, not only before His incarnation but AFTER as well!
---kathr4453 on 1/3/12


poor poor silly MarkV,
Jesus IN THE FLESH was not before His Incarnation.

There was no Jesus in the FLESH before He was conceived of the Virgin Mary.

I know in your false doctrine of Calvinism there NEEDS there to Be someone YOU were IN before you were even born, proving your own preexistance and election but THIS is where You and te Mormons have missed the boat. YOU did not exist before the foundation of the World, AND the MAN Christ Jesus did not exist before His Incarnation. Before His Incarnation HE WAS GOD who's name is/was THE WORD! Scripture calls Him the WORD of God, and that is what I CALL HIM TOO! The WORD was made flesh.

His name is still called THE WORD OF GOD!
---kathr4453 on 1/3/12


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The same to you too leej, that we speak GOD'S WORD not our own. That we do not look to the wisdom of men but of God. That we uphold the word of God, not man, and that we stop showing ourselves as carnal babies in saying. I'm of Calvin...I'm of Barnes NOTES, I'm of the WCF, but to truly say,I will not bend teh knee to BAAL or any earthly worship.

THAT is how one KNOWS one is a true vessel of Honor to God!

This is where some WONDER leej if you practice what you preach!
---kathr4453 on 1/3/12


Kathr, nonsense? you claimed with your own mouth, Christ became a Son at birth. That He was not the Son from eternity. Your claim is the same claim as the Mormons and J. Witnesses. If He is not eternal and preexistent then He is not God. He was the Son from all eternity. I never said He was a god jr. You invent words to confuse others on the Deity of Christ but your lies are well known. Only heretics try to confuse the Deity of Christ. When we say Christ is the eternal Son of God, we declare His co-equality with the Father and the Holy Ghost. But you and the Socinaian really stand on the same ground, Heretical ground. Every attribute related to Deity or ascribed to the Father or the Holy Spirit can also be attributed to Christ.
---Mark_V. on 1/3/12


kathr4453 //So all your nonsense that I believe Jesus was CREATED, and was not GOD from the beginning is absolute NONSENSE.
---
Good, while we can accept that you believe Jesus is God eternal, you really need to be careful with your words as they all too often leave others confused.

May the Lord our God the chief Potter mold you into a beautiful vessel to accomplish His will and purpose. Romans 9.
---lee1538 on 1/3/12


//1. When we talk about a day as in creation is it in God's time or ours. Are we not told a day is but a moment to God. So whose time do we go by?


Functionally, a day became to be defined as the "period of Earth's rotation about axis measured relative to the Sun".

God begin the creation of the earth prior to the beginning of time as we know of it. He continues to create.

Those that have problem with the Genesis creation account are the legalists who have chosen to observe the Jewish or Christian sabbath. None of their arguments are cogent.

As to the time Jericho existed or Adam first appeared on earth, continues to be debated by various expositors.
---lee1538 on 1/3/12


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I have some questions on Genesis that would be grateful for guidance on.
1. When we talk about a day as in creation is it in God's time or ours. Are we not told a day is but a moment to God. So whose time do we go by?
2. Jericho is 11000 years old. Yet we are told Adam was born 6000 years ago?
3.In chapter 1 of Genesis we are told that God created man and woman and he gave all things unto them. chapter 2 The 7th day he rested came back carried on. Then found there was no man to till the ground So he created man from the earth and blew the breath of living soul into him.
Was there civilisation before Adam as it seems they were different people. It reads as if Adam was born after the 7th day and he had soul breathed into him?
---chris on 1/3/12


Is Jesus Christ ETERNAL. Of coarse He is. IS GOD eternal. Of coarse He is.

Was teh ETERNAL GOD who was made flesh ETERNAL and from the beginning. OF COARSE HE IS.

So all your nonsense that I believe Jesus was CREATED, and was not GOD from the beginning is absolute NONSENSE.
---kathr4453 on 1/3/12


//You now agree that the light source for the first 3 days of Creation was different. Do you or do you not believe that the earth rotation rate for the first 3 days was also different, and if so, what is your rationale for that conclusion?

We really have no evidence on the rotation of the earth at the beginning of Creation.

The earth being created by the word of God could have been a rapidly spinning mass without form and void covered with darkness (Genesis 1:2).

Perhaps it was in a state of being cooled down and in the process of being molded by God in accordance to His design.

Astronomers tell us about new universes being created all the time.
---lee1538 on 1/3/12


Of coarse He was MarkV, but He had to come in the FLESH to do that. Our SIN was placed on Christ.

Your Heresy teaches that there was a God JR, who entered the world, and preexisted, and that somehow was already an existing being before being made flesh.

CHRIST being FULLY GOD FULLY MAN did not exist before His Incarnation.

GOD was made Flesh, not Michael the Archangel who Mormons believe put on flesh. Your THEORY teaches the exact same thing.

Your THEORY believes in three separate individual Gods. THAT is CULT TEACHING.

One God in three persons is no the same as Three Gods in one person!


Your Heresy comes from the RCC who NEED to make Mary the eternal MOTHER of God.
---kathr4453 on 1/3/12


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Kathr, I know that you do not believe in the Eternal Son of God, the reason you are a heretic. We're told by God's Word that He, (The Son)was,
"foreknown indeed as a sacrifice for sin before the foundation of the world" (1 Peter 1:20). He is eternal. "And we know that the Son of God is come, and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him that is true, and we are in Him that is true, even in His Son Jesus Christ this is the true God and eternal life" (1 John 5:20). You do not have that understanding. You do not receive the love of the Truth. God descibes those who speak against His Son,
"With their tongues they have used deceit, the poison of asp is under their lips" Rom. 3:13).
---Mark_V. on 1/3/12


Lee: You are dodging the question. You now agree that the light source for the first three days of Creation was different. Do you or do you not believe that the earth rotation rate for the first three days was also different, and if so, what is your rationale for that conclusion?


---jerry6593 on 1/3/12


What I find so horrible about the Calvinists belief, is that they believe they have to SEE the Kingdom of God
before they can enter into it...that their fallen human spirit needs to be rebirthed before they can see.

However scripture teaches the kindgom of God is WITHIN YOU...and that one needs to be Born of the Spirit, or Born of God to enter in and see.


One must be Born Again and be IN CHRIST a member of His Bocy to enter in and SEE anything of God. Christ is the HEAD of which all truth flows to the Body.

THEY'RE CLAIMING they are already saved and baptized into Christ B4 they ever received Jesus Christ.

THIS IS A CULT!
---kathr4453 on 1/3/12


These guys want you to believe God picked them out to understand and SEE all the mysteries of God YET lean on man and commentaries of man ( Modernists= Darwinists) for their information.

You can fool some of the people some of the time, all the people some of the time, but not all the people all the time.


And they hate anyone who can see through their moronic bafoonery! They cannot stand to be questioned or called into account of their false teachings just as Calvin could not stand to be confronted, so he shut them up by murdering them.

MURDER comes in many forms. Markv's HEART is full of MURDER, as he spews hate ove nad over, showing us THERE IS NO NEW HEART IN MARKV!
---kathr4453 on 1/3/12


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Jerry//Does that mean that you are also NOW willing to admit that the rotation rate of the earth (and hence the length of the day) was the same for all seven days?

***************************
What is obvious is that those days preceding the 4th day were totally different and what is also obvious for those who can read is that the Genesis record does NOT specified the duration of the first 3 days.

Your belief that they were 24 hours is known as an ASSUMPTION.
---lee1538 on 1/2/12


***************

Lee: "Correction: I meant to say that the light source BEFORE the 4th day was not the sun."
---lee1538 on 1/1/12

Does that mean that you are also NOW willing to admit that the rotation rate of the earth (and hence the length of the day) was the same for all seven days?

***************************
---jerry6593 on 1/2/12


MarkV believes like all cults there was a "begotten son" before His incarnation. Scripture tells us " THIS DAY have I begottne thee" WHAT DAY was that MarkV. You believe there was a DAY efore Jesus Incarnation God begott/biirthed a Son, making him a lesser God, in submission to the Father in the past, who came into being somewhere in eternity past. I DO NOT.

I BELIEVE the WORD was in the BEGINNING WITH GOD and WAS GOD who was made flesh.

MarkV's teaching on the Trinity is a CULT.

Immanuel means GOD WITH US...not the eternal son with us.




---kathr4453 on 1/2/12


Salvation comes when one BELIEVES Jesus died and rose again for our SIN RECEIVING God's Grace and Mercy at that time. However MarkV wants us to believe he had to BEG for Mercy AFTER salvation, ( WORKS SALVATION)) rather than having faith IN God's Mercy. He claims to be the elect where only THEY receive mercy AFTER begging for it.

This came after a 13 year old witnessed to him becaming an RCC who later became a Pentecostal, who later became a calvinist.

MarkV wants us to believe UNLESS you have the EXACT EXPERIENCE he had, you are not saved.

MarkV says the Holy Spirit or Christ REALLY DOESN"T live in you stating REBIRTH is his old adam spirit was reborn, not Christ in Him, being his new Birth.
---kathr4453 on 1/2/12


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2.Deuteronomy 18:20
But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.


So LeeJ and MarkV, do you believe just because you are under GRACE this no longer applies?

Neither of you SPEAK in God's name. This is taking the Lords name in Vain...breaking the second commandment.

OH yea, the 10 commandments were written in your NEW HEART??

This PROVES they were not!
---kathr4453 on 1/2/12


//Anyone who can read and is able to think should be able to see that the sun was not created until the 4th day and that the light source after the 4th day was not the sun. Clearly this 'days' were different.

Correction: I meant to say that the light source BEFORE the 4th day was not the sun.
---lee1538 on 1/1/12


Lee, I think most knowledgeable people know day-length is controlled by the speed at which the earth spins. Whether the light is light from God as per Genesis 1:3 (as will be the light in heaven) or the light from the sun God created is irrelevant. My 12 year old grandson has no trouble comprehending this! But then again he has no reason not to believe what Scripture says.
---Warwick on 1/1/12


*******************

Lee: "Clearly this [sic]'days' were different."

No! Clearly the light source was different - not the period of the earth's rotation, and hence the length of the day. If the earth were rotating extremely slowly as you suggest, you are still left with two impossibilities: The survival of day 3 vegetation over eons of light or darkness and its destruction upon sudden acceleration to 24-hour rotation.

Why do you fight so hard to prove God wrong and Darwin right? Can your idols of academia save you?

**********************
---jerry6593 on 1/1/12


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Leej, There is a sin called the sin of PRESUMPTUOUSNESS. You do know what the word means don't you?

You are suggesting God did not reveal the duration of the first 3 days but did the last 4? In order to prove your point LeeJ, you need at least ome or two other scriptures to back up that the first 3 days were DIFFERENT than the last 4.

You don't even have ONE verse to stand on much less one or two witnesses.

Therefore it's all in your unregenerate mind!
---kathr4453 on 1/1/12


Kathr, how could you possibly know what is a cult? Your heretical views concerning Jesus Christ are cultic themselves. You say,
"Many Jews today who do not believe in Jesus Christ, who do worship on the sabbath are not classified as a CULT."
They might not be to you, but to me they are unbelievers who reject the Eternal Son of God as you do. You are angry because Calvin believed in the Eternal Son of God. So you want to bash him for not agreeing with you. Your hate has blinded you and Scripture says,
"For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned". You blasphemed the Holy Spirit, for you knew the testimony of the Spirit concerning Christ and you rejected it anyways.
---Mark_V. on 1/1/12


//I see YOU are the one who cannot PROVE a day is not a 24 hour period.
--
While I cannot prove the duration of any of the first 3 periods of creation, it is clearly a fact that the Bible does NOT reveal it to us.

//So PROVE beyond a shaddow of a doubt here that the first three "DAYS" were different in duration of time than the next 4 "DAYS".

Anyone who can read and is able to think should be able to see that the sun was not created until the 4th day and that the light source after the 4th day was not the sun. Clearly this 'days' were different.

Warwick and now you simply want to be argumentative but at the same time really have nothing to offer.
---lee1538 on 12/31/11


Warwick - Since you have been unable to show a single scripture that states the first 3 periods of creation had to be 24 hours duration, it is clear that it is you that has a problem with man-made traditions.

---lee1538 on 12/29/11

Lee1538, I see YOU are the one who cannot PROVE a day is not a 24 hour period. AND that before DARWIN and man made nonsense, no such argument ever was discussed.

So lee1538, PROVE beyond a shaddow of a doubt here that the first three "DAYS" were different in duration of time than the next 4 "DAYS".

DAY was made for MAN, not God.
---kathr4453 on 12/30/11


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Jerry, the question is what scriptural account you are talking about, and who's interpretation of the account. If you are pushing for SDA's seventh day Saturday Sabbath then it is a cult. For it is not one of the essentials of the Christian faith.
---Mark_V. on 12/24/11

We need to be careful what we call a CULT. Many Jews today who do not believe in Jesus Christ, who do worship on the sabbath are not classified as a CULT.

A Cult is one where man worships the teachings of a MAN like Calvin, or Ron of Scientology, or the MOONIES or Mormons who believe Jesus was created and an angel and they being angels too, etc.

SDA's do believe in Jesus Christ who is God who came in the Flesh.
---kathr4453 on 12/30/11


Lee, you have always been somewhat strange, feeling the need to hide your identity via different names. I wonder if you are still using different names? But now you are becoming quite odd. You have admitted Exodus 20:11 has God saying He created in 6 24 hr days. May I point out the obvious that the first three 24hr days in Exodus 20:11 are the first three 24hr days of Genesis ch.1. But now, apparently having forgotten what you previously wrote, you say there is no Biblical evidence that the first three days of Genesis ch. 1 are 24hrs. Interesting!
---Warwick on 12/30/11


Lee:

"Like most religionists you specialize in slandering other Christians."

ROFL! You are the CN king of slander!


"Since you have been unable to show a single scripture that states the first 3 periods of creation had to be 24 hours duration"

Even a child can read that all 7 days are alike in:

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Why can't you? Are you not as intelligent as a child?


---jerry6593 on 12/31/11


Warwick - Since you have been unable to show a single scripture that states the first 3 periods of creation had to be 24 hours duration, it is clear that it is you that has a problem with man-made traditions.

As I stated before (I have not changed my views), I believe in God's word in its entirely, while you believe things that are NOT written in God's word. That much has been abundantly clear since you got onto this forum.

While the evolutionist is incorrect in some of his viewpoints, it is obvious that you are also, thro you may have some differing viewpoints. wrong + wrong does not= right.

Suggest that you sit back and think about these issues instead of trying categorize people.
---lee1538 on 12/29/11


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Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed, it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

yes, this is the first indication or prediction of the promised redemption in Christ, and I have no problem believing that or anything else in the Bible.

However, unlike Warwick I only believe what the Bible says, not what it does not say. And to that, the Bible does not say the first 3 days were of 24 hour duration.
---lee1538 on 12/29/11


//You believe in the antiBiblical idea of long-ages and evolution which obviously places death before sin, the opposite of what Scripture says.

Like most religionists you specialize in slandering other Christians.

Nowhere did I ever say that I supported any 'long-ages and evolution which obviously places death before sin'.

What I did say is that the Genesis account does not specify the duration of the first 3 creation periods. Even a child that knows how to read should be able to see that.

As stated before, our main difference is that I believe everything in the Bible while you chose to beleive extra-biblical presumptions that support your philosophical ideas.
---lee1538 on 12/29/11


No book can authenticate itself. The Bible must be authenticated by some external source. What is that source? For some it's the Church. For others it's their own personal experience with it. What is it for you?
---John.usa on 12/30/11


Lee, I have shown that God's word says the only foundation for the gospel is the events as recorded in the early chapters of Genesis. The Good News of Jesus rests firmly upon the bad news of Adam, as the writes say. See, for example Romans 5:12,15-19 6:23, 1 Corinthians 15:21,22. However you reject what Scripture says because it obviously undermines yor man-made philosophies. You believe in the antiBiblical idea of long-ages and evolution which obviously places death before sin, the opposite of what Scripture says. What gall you have to then say you trust what Scripture says! How deceitful you are.

You cannot provide any Scripture which supports your ideas so resort to smoke and mirrors.
---Warwick on 12/29/11


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1 Corinthians 4:6 I have applied all these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, brothers,that you may learn by us not to go beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up in favor of one against another--- lee1538 on 12/29

francis is absolute correct to say that the very first anouncement of the Gospel is in Genesis 3:15.

There is no Gospel without Genesis PERIOD!!! And an accurate account of Genesis is a absolute.

The first established faith OF Genesis 3:15 is Abel's BLOOD sacrifice, looking forward to Genesis 3:15.

No where does it say Abel's dead man spirit was FIRST reborn to believe either. That would go against 1 Cor 4:6 GOING BEYOND WHAT IS WRITTEN

---kathr4453 on 12/29/11


create a river a canyon will evolve.the truth is as a double edged sword...Grace & Mercy,Cause & Effect,Action & Reaction,lol,man was created from dust and evolves back to it :D
---kevin5443 on 12/29/11


The one and only gospel is based solely upon the events of the first chapters of Genesis.
---Warwick on 12/26/11
100% true.

the Gospel is based on the " good news" that Jesus has come to save us from our sins?

the very first teaching of the gospel is Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed, it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

there is no other Gospel that jesus has come to save the lost as spoken of in Genesis
---francis on 12/29/11


//The one and only gospel is based solely upon the events of the first chapters of Genesis.

So much BULL!

Your problem is you really do not believe what the Bible says, choosing instead to beleive what it does not say. And that is our major difference.

In doing that you introduce what is false into His church.

1 Corinthians 4:6 I have applied all these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, brothers,that you may learn by us not to go beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up in favor of one against another.

Fortunately we do not see anyone on this forum that has accepted your erroneous viewpoints.
---lee1538 on 12/29/11


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The modern concept of evolution, Neo-Darwinism, is a naturalistic system without God, nor any need of God.

The theory (which scientifically doesn't qualify to be called a theory) concerns the naturalistic appearance of life and the evolution of totally new kinds of creatures. For example the imagined ancestor of all dogs was obviously not a dog. Therefore evolution is not about speciation or natural selection but the naturalistic appearance of massive amounts of specific unique genetic information (the genetic blueprints) as would be necessary to turn the original 'simple' life-form into all the different kinds of creatures of the past and present. Natural selection cannot produce such new unique genetic information.
---Warwick on 12/27/11


evolution n =
1. the theoretical process by which all species develop from earlier forms of life.

According to this theory, natural variation in the genetic material of a population favors reproduction by some individuals more than others, so that over the generations all members of the population come to possess the favorable traits.

2. The natural or artificially induced process by which new and different organisms develop as a result of changes in genetic material.

Those who criticize others generally have little concept of what evolution is.

Too often the criticism is directed toward those who simply believe the Genesis account is not reliable or from those who pitch observance of the Jewish Sabbbath.
---lee1538 on 12/27/11


The one and only gospel is based solely upon the events of the first chapters of Genesis.

Romans. 5:12 "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned."

Romans 6:23 "for the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ."

1 Corinthians 15:21,22 "For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ will all be made alive."

Accepting millions of years pre-Adam leads to people interpreting the fossil record as showing death before Adam, thus contradicting the Bible and undermining the Gospel.
---Warwick on 12/26/11


\\I used to believe in Evolution but now I do not.
---Samuel on 12/23/11\\

That is your privilege.

I myself believe in our Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ.

The real question is why jerry is so obsessed with this matter.

Christ is born! Glorify Him!
---Cluny on 12/26/11


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No they are not a cult just confused.

I see that cluny uses any opportunity to depricate the Seventh day Adventist church even on a discussion that has nothing to do with us except that we do not believe in evolution.
---Samuel on 12/25/11


"Do not be deceived, God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life." (Galatians 6:7-8) Reaping brings so much more than those little seeds we sow! (c: And the spirit we sow in has so much to do with what we will reap. Even if we believe in a correct doctrine, we can be arguing and self-righteously looking down on "denominations". We are reaping emotionally in the spirit that has us sowing! So, first we need to make sure we are resting in the flow of God's peace ruling us (Colossians 3:15) . . . obeying how He guides our attention (c:
---Bill_willa6989 on 12/23/11


The gospel message is that Christ died for us even while we were dead in sin, that He died upon the Cross to pay the penalty for all our sins - past present & future, and that we have the hope of His resurrected life in those who believe.

The cults on the other hand, do not have Jesus for our salvation as their gospel but something else such as conformity to their doctrinal views such as what day we would have communal worship or what we would or would not eat - things that have virtually no bearing on our salvation or Christian walk.
---lee1538 on 12/23/11


Wow Cluny you attack us on a discussion even when we have not said anything?

I used to believe in Evolution but now I do not.
---Samuel on 12/23/11


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Jerry, the question is what scriptural account you are talking about, and who's interpretation of the account. If you are pushing for SDA's seventh day Saturday Sabbath then it is a cult. For it is not one of the essentials of the Christian faith.
---Mark_V. on 12/24/11


Most denominations do not have a position on this issue as it lies more in the realm of science than religion and has nothing to do with ones salvation.

It is usually the legalist that have a problem with these kinds of issues.
---lee1538 on 12/24/11


Not necessarily, but SDA IS cult.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/23/11


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