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False Teacher In Jerusalem

Today, I was watching Rod Parsley. He claimed to be live in Jerusalem. I noticed how the large trees behind him were blowing in the wind, yet his hair and clothes were motionless.
It never ceases to amaze me what tactics these FALSE TEACHERS and SERVANTS of SATAN will use to deceive people.

Moderator - Was he in a studio live in Jerusalem?

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 ---Rob on 1/1/12
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No Haz it is you who have missed the point. You appear to be saying that obedience to the Sabbath law brings a person back under law. So I asked you a question: "Well that same law says do not steal. Am I also bringing myself back under law by obeying this commandment?"

Am I?
---Warwick on 1/18/12


Lee when asked which was the greatest commandment Jesus replied "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind."

AND "a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself." "On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets" Matthew 22:36-40.

When we look at the 10 Commandments, for one example, we see that all of them can be summed up (not replaced by) the two above.

I ask you a question: If we love God completely (and having received His free gift of forgiveness) surely we should, should we not follow His commandments? Or having been saved by grace do you say we are free to sin?
---Warwick on 1/18/12


Francis,
But here's the commandments:
"this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another," 1John3:23

But SDA's fail to obey commandments and they repent REPEATEDLY for it. From this we see:

1:SDA's cant keep the law like Christ did. But is not the law written on their hearts? Or did the SDA's misunderstand scripture.

2:To Repent is to turn away/stop the offence. Clearly SDA's never did repent to start with if they repent repeatedly. Clearly the SDA's misunderstand repentance too.

But see Heb 6:1. Repentance is from DEAD WORKS.
SDA efforts at self-righteousness through dead works of the law as part of salvation is frustrating God's grace.
---Haz27 on 1/18/12


Don't frustrate the grace of God.
---Haz27 on 1/17/12
you may have missed this verse
Ephesians 6:2 Honour thy father and mother, (which is the first commandment with promise,)

You who are UNDER GRACE do you keep ANY of these laws:
(ten commandments)
---francis on 1/17/12
Absolutely NOT ! ! !
---James_L on 1/17/12

You may have missed this verse in your bible
Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
---francis on 1/18/12


But Lee is I obey this commandment you recommend aren't I placing myself under the law again?
---Warwick on 1/18/12




Warwick.Welcome back.
You missed the point. Keeping law as part of salvation is the issue.

Note Francis's posts:
BLOG:Commandments of God
"OBEDIENCE is WORSHIP....
When we keep sabbath we are worshiping God.
When anyone chooses not to keep sabbath and make another day his sabbath, he is living IN SIN and not worshiping God"

BLOG:What is lord of Sabbath?
"Those who choose to live in sin, cannot be suprised at their fate in the late of fire"

BLOG: Do saved people sin?
Anyone who teaches another person not to keep the sabbath or to eat anything unclean is teaching him to sin
the lowlife who encourage and teach men to sin.

This is SDA's view of God's grace.


---Haz27 on 1/18/12


Francis, since you insist on keeping the LAW, and insist on people keeping the SABBATH,
why don't you set the example and keep the SABBATH in the same manner that the Jews keep the SABBATH?
---Rob on 1/18/12


The only commandment that one needs to obey is the one which states the law is fulfilled by love of neighbor.

Romans 13:9f The commandments, You shall not commit adultery, not murder, not steal, not covet, and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: You shall love your neighbor as yourself...., therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

The legalists would not agree at they believe obedience to law is required for salvation.

Warwick - love your neighbor and you will not steal from him but obedience to the obsolete Jewish sabbath avails nothing toward ones neighbor.
---lee1538 on 1/17/12


Haz, I find myself somewhat between to opposing parties in these issues. You appear to be saying that observance of the Sabbath brings someone back under law. Well that same law says do not steal. Am I also bringing myself back under law by obeying this commandment?
---Warwick on 1/17/12


Francis: Many here on CN preach grace ONLY. They believe that Jesus dealt with sin once and for all and they are now righteous in Christ.

But SDA doctrine mixes grace and law. You claim you are saved by grace AND your obedience of law shows your Christian. But then SDAs also disobey commandments and confess/repent/foot wash, AGAIN, and AGAIN, and AGAIN (similar to OT yearly scarifices).

Did not Jesus purge out sin in ONE sacrifice for us? Why do you remain with a conscience of sin then? Read Heb 10.
Rom 8:1-2 "There is no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus..."
If youre under the law of Spirit of life in Christ then don't teach obedience to law of sin and death?
Don't frustrate the grace of God.
---Haz27 on 1/17/12




Show me where Jesus broke the Law. If He did then you do not have to follow it. Of course the answer is that Jesus never broke the Law. He broke the Pharisees extra laws but not Gods Law. So be safe and obey the Law. The Law is not for salvation but to show our need for grace. Romans ch 5. The law is for protection. Use analogy, Law is like a fence around a yard so that children can play safe not a cage as the Pharisees transformed it to be.
---Scott1 on 1/17/12


Francis responds to my question with this: ''That is a common statement by those who do not wish to keep the sabbath.''

This is a classic ad hominem. That is, it's dishonest.
---Marc on 1/17/12


You who are UNDER GRACE do you keep ANY of these laws:
(ten commandments)
---francis on 1/17/12

Absolutely NOT ! ! !

Christ is the END of the Law for everyone who believes.

"keeping" or "observing" means that the Law is driving you.

If you have to brow-beaten into submission to the Law, then maybe you've never experienced grace.

Either that, or you have fallen from grace. There is no other option.
---James_L on 1/17/12


You can't mix grace and law,
---Haz27 on 1/17/12

Now is your chance to give an intelligent answer:
You who are UNDER GRACE do you keep ANY of these laws:

Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make any graven image, to bow down to
Exodus 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain,
Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exodus 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother:
Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.
Exodus 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Exodus 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.
Exodus 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness.
Exodus 20:17 Thou shalt not covet
---francis on 1/17/12


These false teachers are they described in the bible as

2Pe 2:3
And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.


Be better watchman for the tithes and offerings originally for the furtherance of Gods work not Mansions and wealthy living of these thieves.
---Carla on 1/17/12


Francis said: "Matthew 12:12 Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days."

Using some of your own words Francis, your misuse of the scripture above is a "common statement by those who" frustrate the grace of God by bringing themselves under law (Gal 2:18-21).

As you have revealed, you still have a conscience of sins in spite of Christ's sacrifice purging out sin at the cross.

You can't mix grace and law, just as a fountain does not
send forth both sweet water and bitter (James 3:11).
---Haz27 on 1/17/12


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--Rob on 1/17/12
I get to church in a luxury American made sedan. Jesus walked to synagogie. Which one of us do you think did more "work" to get to church on the sabbath: Me in my car or Jesus on foot?


Francis:
Many here have questioned your disobedience of commandments (including Sabbath) and you have failed to answer appropriately. ---Haz27 on 1/16/12

because no one has any proof of me disobeying or claiming to disobey any commandments.

Those accusation are as unintelligent as accusing Jesus of not keeping the sabbath when he healed a man, or plucked an ear of corn to eat on the sabbath
---francis on 1/17/12


Francis, why do you avoid answering the question I asked you on 1/16/12?
---Rob on 1/17/12


Francis,
This is Jesus' commandment, not the Law, we're to follow:

John said: ''Brethren, I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you had from the beginning.'' (1 John 2:7)

Jesus said: ''This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.'' (John 14:12)
---Marc on 1/16/12
That is a common statement by those who do not wish to keep the sabbath.

Funny they do not quote this one:
Matthew 12:12 Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
---francis on 1/17/12


Francis:
Many here have questioned your disobedience of commandments (including Sabbath) and you have failed to answer appropriately. It seems that you have not accepted how sin was dealt with in Christ's sacrifice.

You remain with your conscience of sin (like those doing OT sacrifices, Heb 10:2) in spite of Christ's sacrifice purging out sin once and for all on the cross.

Many here have shared the gospel with you. It's up to you to stop frustrating the grace of God now.
---Haz27 on 1/16/12


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Francis,

You never responded to my quoting accurately what you misquoted and took out of context. This is Jesus' commandment, not the Law, we're to follow:

John said: ''Brethren, I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you had from the beginning.'' (1 John 2:7)

Jesus said: ''This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.'' (John 14:12)
---Marc on 1/16/12


If Francis really believes that Christianity is but an extension of the Jewish religion and that all the tenets of Judaism are to be observed, he should check out any of the Messianic congregations where they really do the Jewish things.

Of course, they will want to verify if he is circumcised before they will give him a beanie hat to wear.
---lee11538 on 1/16/12


Francis, I grew up in a Jewish Community with Jewish classmates.

They kept their Sabbath which included their entire family walking to the synagogue even though it was cold, snowing, and may have been miles away. They had vehicles they could have driven.

So let me ask you, since you insist on keeping the Jewish Sabbath, how do you get to church on Saturdays?
---Rob on 1/16/12


So why do SDA's fail to repent and repeat the offence? ---Haz27 on 1/16/12

John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.


---lee1538 If my brother died I would have no problems marring his wife

I have no prblem lighting a fire to heat my house on the sabbath

I like to celebrate ALL the jewish feats
Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
---francis on 1/16/12


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Francis: You said in "Meaning of my commandments".
"one who does not keep all ten commandments and refuses to admit failure to keep one is sin, does not confess and does not repent.
his sins are neither forgiven nor covered...."

We know repentance is to turn away/stop the offence. So why do SDA's fail to repent and repeat the offence? Clearly they never really repented to start with.

Heb 10:2 once purged there should be no more conscience of sin. Christ's sacrifice dealt with sin ONCE and for all. Yet SDA's still have the "conscience of sin" like those who relied on OT sacrifices year after year.

Why do SDA's not genuinely repent and thereby have no more conscience of sin?
---Haz27 on 1/16/12


Francis //2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
---

Are you so ignorant that you think that since all scripture is of use to us that all commands given in the Old Covenant scripture are applicable to the church?

Will you marry your dead brothers wife if they are childless?

How about lighting a fire to cook your food or heat your home on the Sabbath?

And you must observe ALL the Jewish festivals since you believe 2 Tim. 3:16 commands you to do just that.

You need to become intelligent.




---lee1538 on 1/16/12


Francis. You quote scriptures (incorrectly) to condemn non-SDA's for not obeying commandments.
---Haz27 on 1/15/12
Ezekiel 3:18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die, and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life, the same wicked [man] shall die in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at thine hand.

I give scriptures NEVER to condemn, but rather to reproof and correct

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
---francis on 1/16/12


Samuel, your doctrine contradicts Francis's.
Francis said in "Meaning of my commandments" 10/2/11 on foot washing:"those who have been baptized need not be rebaptized each time they sin, but rather confess their sin and have their foot washed."
But you denied this doctrine.

Also, re-reading your's and Francis's posts I see the preaching of condemnation. And somehow you seem to think an SDA's failure to obey commandments is acceptable because at least you tried to keep them better than non-SDA's, and you repented (?) and did foot washing, and observed the Sabbath (albiet incorrectly), and followed food laws.

BUT, consider the gospel of Christ instead. There is NO CONDEMNATION in Christ (Rom 8:1).
---Haz27 on 1/16/12


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what does SDA doctrine believe happens to a professing Christian who (for example) does not observe the Sabbath or observes it on Sunday instead of Saturday?
---Haz27 on 1/13/12
The BIBLE teaches:
James 2:10 whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
James 2:12 they shall be judged by the law of liberty

1 John 3:4 sin is the transgression of the law.
Romans 6:23 the wages of sin is death
John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

Jesus makes those judgments NOT SDA
---francis on 1/15/12


Francis. You quote scriptures (incorrectly) to condemn non-SDA's for not obeying commandments. And then when I turn your SAME argument against your own failure to obey commandments you cry foul. Are you not being hypocritical?

I can only go by what your posts says so if you claim my comments against SDA's are false then you only have yourself to blame for your mixed-up/confusing doctrine you present here on CN.

If SDA's are not condemned for their disobedience on commandments then neither are non-SDA's. Try stopping your condemnation doctrine and see the results. And remember there is NO CONDEMNATION for those in Christ Jesus.

---Haz27 on 1/15/12


John said: ''Brethren, I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you had from the beginning.'' (1 John 2:7)

Jesus said: ''This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.'' (John 14:12)
---Marc on 1/15/12


So, what does SDA doctrine believe happens to a professing Christian who (for example) does not observe the Sabbath or observes it on Sunday instead of Saturday?
---Haz27

That GOD will judge them and their heart. That it is not our job to judge others.

Unfortunatly man do judge others on both sides of this issue. Many times I have been told I am going to hell for keeping Sabbath. While I have had to correct SDA who are over zealous. Those who are convicted by GOD are known only by GOD.
---Samuel on 1/15/12


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Haz27.. Do me a favour before you make accusation against SDA which are usually false. take a look at " 27 fundermental beliefs" It contains a summary of 27 beliefs of SDA.

By making false accusation when the information is available it shows poor taste and lack of intellegence.

People like Christopher Hitchens make thier claims against God mainly on the bases on how christians treat each other. When anyone of us claims to be a christian and make false accusation against another, it gives fuel to the idea that there is no God.

We are of different denomination, I expect that we do not agree on everything. When we use false accusation it says that we are not childrten of God beacuse we behave in an ungodly manner.
---francis on 1/13/12


Francis. SDA's stand condemned by SDA doctrine on the scriptures you quoted.

We all know SDA's fail to obey the 10 commandments so according to your posts regarding this "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." 1 John 2:4

The alternative however is that SDA doctrine on the scriptures you quoted is error. But perhaps you can explain (with scriptures) how it is that SDA's can fail to obey the 10 commandments and yet not be seen as liars without the truth in them?



---Haz27 on 1/14/12


francis //Do not forget THOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD
---
And that should be reflected in how one treats one neighbor.

"If you have done it unto the least of mine, you have done it unto me."

Nowhere in the Bible does it states loving the Lord means we should observe the olde Jewish Sabbath. It is not in the New Covenant nor was it taught by the succcessors of the Apostles.

Let's face it, those who believe God is impressed with anytbing we do as to the law are those who refuse to live by faith, since the scriptur tells us the righteous must live by faith, Romans 1:17, Gal. 3,11.
---lee1538 on 1/14/12


Your posts have clearly indicated that most of us here are not Christians because we do not keep the Sabbath and/or teach others not to also. Is this not SDA doctrine?
---Haz27 on 1/9/12

Does it line up with the word of God?

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
---francis on 1/13/12


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--lee1538 on 1/9/12
Does it realy say "WHOLE LAW?"
Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Romans 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be ANY OTHER commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Matthew 22:40 On these TWO COMMANDMENTS hang all the law and the prophets.

Now you are trying to hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets on ONE COMMANDMENT to avoid keeping the sabbath

Do not forget THOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD
---francis on 1/13/12


Francis: Since you questioned my understanding of your posts regarding SDA doctrine, that is why I put that question to you.

So, what does SDA doctrine believe happens to a professing Christian who (for example) does not observe the Sabbath or observes it on Sunday instead of Saturday?
---Haz27 on 1/13/12


Or does SDA doctrine accept that it's grace alone, without our own post-salvation efforts at obeying the commandments? In other words, even if we don't keep the Sabbath, as an example.
---Haz27 on 1/9/12
Are you asking what happens to a christian who does not obey the law of God?
---francis on 1/13/12


Francis. I agree, I do not determine what is SDA teaching. But that's one of the reasons why I debate you, to hear from you what SDA doctrine is.

Your posts have clearly indicated that most of us here are not Christians because we do not keep the Sabbath and/or teach others not to also. Is this not SDA doctrine?

Your posts state that as Christians saved by grace, we now obey the commandments. I assume this is SDA doctrine also.
But why do SDA's fail to obey (even the Sabbath)?

Or does SDA doctrine accept that it's grace alone, without our own post-salvation efforts at obeying the commandments? In other words, even if we don't keep the Sabbath, as an example.

---Haz27 on 1/9/12


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Francis - If you do not accept the word of God in Romans 13 that love of neighbor fulfills the law, then view Galatians 5:14

For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

You simply do not want to accept the facts given in scripture since they come from christians that do not belong to Adventism.
---lee1538 on 1/9/12


You fail to read (and understand) the phrase in Romans 13:9 "and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."
---lee1538 on 1/8/12

MISSINNG FROM THIS LIST of commandments which reflect LOVE FOR NEIGHBOUR IS: Ephesians 6:2 Honour thy father and mother,


Francis: That SDA quote on it's own doesn't explain SDA teaching enough.---Haz27 on 1/8/12

How do you Haz27 determine what is SDA teachng and what is not?

If you want to see what is SDA teaching I will refer you to the book 27 fundermental beliefs availabel online
---francis on 1/9/12


Francis//You can only fulfill SIX of TEN based on Romans 13:9

You fail to read (and understand) the phrase in Romans 13:9 "and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."

The verse does indeed say that one fulfills the law by love of neighbor.

How does one love God?

Matthew 25:45 Then he will answer them, saying, Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.
---lee1538 on 1/8/12


Francis: That SDA quote on it's own doesn't explain SDA teaching enough. But along with your posts I understand it means that once we become Christians we are able to obey the commandments.

But SDA's don't. Not even the Sabbath. The foot washing to deal with SDA sins that Christ's ONE sacrifice allegedly missed (according to SDA's), proves it.

It's our INNER MAN (Christ) who delights in the law of God, Rom 7:22. Being in Christ saves us and it is his obedience (Rom 5:19)that God recognizes.

You are living proof that man fails in attempting to obey the law. But SDA doctrine condemns any who fail to obey to their minimum standards and/or neglect the foot washing. And this SDA doctrine has no scriptural support.
---Haz27 on 1/8/12


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---Lee1538 on 1/7/12
1: Do you agree that SDA teaching is right that Article 19 SDA Fundamental Beliefs "Salvation is all of grace and not of works?"

2: Those saved by grace follow these commandments:

Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make any graven image, to bow down to them,
Exodus 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain,
Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exodus 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother:
Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.
Exodus 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Exodus 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.
Exodus 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness
Exodus 20:17 Thou shalt not covet
---francis on 1/8/12


Haz27
27 fundermental beliefs page 122 "justification is the divine act by which God declares a penitent sinner righteous, or regards him as righteous. Justification is the opposite of condemnation (Rom. 5:16)."4 The basis for this justification is, NOT OUR OBEDIENCE, but Christ's, for "through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. . . . By one Man's obedience many will be made righteous" (Rom. 5:18, 19). He gives this obedience to those believers who are "justified freely by His grace" (Rom. 3:24). "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us" (Titus 3:5)."

DO YOU AGREE WITH THIS SDA TEACHING?
---francis on 1/8/12


-lee1538 on 1/7/12
You can only fulfill SIX of TEN based on Romans 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet, Romans 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his NEIGHBOUR: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

YOU ARE FORGETTING THE OTHER PART

Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt LOVE THE LORD THY GOD with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Matthew 22:38 This is the FIRST AND GREAT commandment.

Matthew 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

you are forgting THE FIRST and GREAT ONE ( LOVE GOD)
---francis on 1/8/12


Francis //LET me STRENGTHEN that statement with SCRIPTURE

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

You continue to add to God's word.

You will not find any Bible expositor that will tell you the commandments spoken of here are the 10 commandments but simply the 2 John refers to - to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and to love ones neighor.

THINK for a change! Do I fulfill the law by observing the 10 comandments or by loving my neighbor? Try reading Romans 13:9-10 more slowly, you just might begin to understand.
---lee1538 on 1/7/12


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Francis, where you err is in the SDA doctrine that determines if someone is saved based on grace PLUS obedience to 10 commandments.

And yet we see SDA's like yourself failing to keep them (even the Sabbath). And then SDA foot washing is supposed to deal with an SDA's "sin", as if to say Christ's ONE sacrifice wasn't sufficient.

The criminal on the cross who called Jesus Lord was saved by grace alone. He did not obey most, if not all of the 10 commandments. King David likewise committed adultery/murder. Both did not profit from their wrong, but it did not affect their salvation.

As we see even legalists fail to keep the commandments, how can anyone be saved unless by GRACE ALONE.

Believe on Jesus instead.
---Haz27 on 1/7/12


Article 19 SDA Fundamental Beliefs. ....Salvation is all of grace and not of works, but it fruitage is obedience to the 10 commandments.
---Lee1538 on 1/7/12
LET me STRENGTHEN that statement with SCRIPTURE

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

In plain English SDA do not keep trhe commandments to be saved, but ratherBECAUSE
---francis on 1/7/12


Francis - I stand by my statement that SDA all too often ignore the spirit behind the law.

Article 19 SDA Fundamental Beliefs. ....Salvation is all of grace and not of works, but it fruitage is obedience to the 10 commandments.

The sabbath-keeping Pharisees of Christ's day were very good at observing the 10 commandments.

The commandments, You shall not commit adultery, not murder, not steal, not covet, and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no wrong to a neighbor, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.Romans 13:9-10

I could kick the daylights out of you and not violate any of the 10 commandments. Are we declared righteous by the law? Romans 3:28
---Lee1538 on 1/7/12


---Haz27 on 1/7/12
Honest discusion:
Which of these commandments are we free to not obey BECAUSE WE ARE NOT UNDER LAW BUT UNDER GRACE:

Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make any graven image, to bow down to them,
Exodus 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain,
Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exodus 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother:
Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.
Exodus 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Exodus 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.
Exodus 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness
Exodus 20:17 Thou shalt not covet

If I honour my parents, am I mixing grace and law?
---francis on 1/7/12


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Francis, you asked why bloggers here dont correct leej.

Most of us disagree with each other on smaller issues sometimes. But legalistic doctrines are contrary to the gospel of grace. You'll find most here are more likely to take issue with legalism than smaller differences.

Through your posts I've learnt that SDA doctrine considers most of us here to be non-Christians because we do not keep the Sabbath and teach its not necessary to do so. I recall you even referred to such as the "lowest form of life" also.

The SDA gospel you presented is not the gospel of Christ.
Just as a fountain does not send forth both sweet water and bitter (James 3:11), nor can you mix grace and law.
---Haz27 on 1/7/12


The problem is with the SDA in that they really believe they are following Jesus when in fact, what they are following is a religious philosophy that we must acquire a righteousness of our own to merit God's favor. And what is that called? If you say legalism, you got the right answer.
---lee1538 on 1/6/12

This LIE you just told, is it THE LETTER or THE SPIRIT OF THE LAW?

If you say it is not a lie i will ask you to prove it,

In fact just go ahead and prove it if you can
---francis on 1/6/12


If It were a legalist then I must certainly would adhere to the very letter of the law.=lee1538

foolishness=francis
--
Agree that it is foolish to even be concerned as to day we worship the Lord as Jesus our savior, is our wisdom, sanctification, redemption & righteousness. 1 Cor. 1:30

The problem is with the SDA in that they really believe they are following Jesus when in fact, what they are following is a religious philosophy that we must acquire a righteousness of our own to merit God's favor. And what is that called? If you say legalism, you got the right answer.
---lee1538 on 1/6/12


If I were a legalist then I must certainly would adhere to the very letter of the law.

---lee1538 on 1/6/12
foolishness
---francis on 1/6/12


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francis //No Leej YOU are the legalist, because you have forgotten the PRINCIPLE of the sabbath, that the sabbath is for man and not man for the sabbath.

If I were a legalist then I must certainly would adhere to the very letter of the law.

Perhaps a review of the dictionary definition would be helpful to you as you apparently are trying to re-define the term in order to defend your erroneous view.

Legalist - adherence to letter of law: strict adherence to a literal interpretation of a law, rule, or religious or moral code.

While I do uphold the principle that man needs rest from work, there is simply no command found in the Bible that says Christians are required to observe any day. Ever read Romans 14?
---lee1538 on 1/6/12


--lee1538 on 1/5/12
No Leej YOU are the legalist, because you have forgotten the PRINCIPLE of the sabbath, that the sabbath is for man and not man for the sabbath.
In your legalistic ways the principle of the sabbath would cause you to have your family in a dark cold house, eating a cold meal on the sabbath beacuse they cannot light a fire, not to warm a meal, or light a dark corner or heat the house.
THAT IS LEGALISM

DOES ANYONE ELSE AGREE or are you all cowards who think that if you dissagree with leej you agree with SDA?

The bible says that the sabbath is a DELIGHT Isaiah 58:13 the sabbath, my holy day, call the sabbath a delight

LEEJ is a cold, dark house with a cold meal is a DELIGHT?
---francis on 1/5/12


Francis //You are O.K with murder as long as there is no hatred?
---
Me thinks you are really losing it as you simply do not have the slightest idea of what the purpose of moral law really is.

The law not only is to glorify the Lord but for our own well-being and benefit.

The legalists simply obeys the law without any regard to the principle behind the law. And we find many of then in Adventism.

Perhaps your god is some kind of tryant big bully in the sky who is going to condemn us if we do not dance to some kind of tune.

John 10:10b I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
---lee1538 on 1/5/12


If you only consider obedience to the law in lieu of the principles behind the commandments you are guilty of legalism.
---lee1538 on 1/5/12
No if you do such you are guilty of sin.
For example if you" hate" you brother, the principle is that you have killed, you are guilty of murder
If you look at a woman with lust, the principle is that you have commited adultery in your heart

Legalism, is the belief that you are saved, justified or made righteous by keeping the law. ANY LAW!!


MAY I ASK THE BOARD A QUESTION
lee1538 posts a lot of garbage on these blogs, why do most of you not correct him?
Is it because he opposes SDA and if you correct him you will appear to be supporting SDA?
---francis on 1/5/12


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If you only consider obedience to the law in lieu of the principles behind the commandments you are guilty of legalism.
---lee1538 on 1/5/12

So is that what you do with your 9/10 or do you just try to do it with 1/10?

SO by your " principle" you are Ok with adultery as long as there is no lust?

You are O.K with murder as long as there is no hatred?
---francis on 1/5/12


If you only consider obedience to the law in lieu of the principles behind the commandments you are guilty of legalism.
---lee1538 on 1/5/12

READ 1 corinthians 5. This man thought that he could PHYSICALLY be with his fathers wife, as long as he kept THE PRINCIPLE

Are you suggesting that all you have to do is keep any 1/7 days as a sabbath and that is the principle EVEN if the BIBLE says that the 7th day is the sabbath of God?
---francis on 1/5/12


francis //10/10 to you is legalistic. so what exactly is 9/10?

If you only consider obedience to the law in lieu of the principles behind the commandments you are guilty of legalism.

I know you disagree with this but the law was given to us as a guide (schoolmaster, guardian) UNTIL Christ came so that we could be justified by faith. Galatians 3:24f

But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster (the law).

Galatians 3:12 But the law is not of faith, rather The one who does them shall live by them.
---lee1538 on 1/5/12


In other words, Rob left a church that was legalistic ---lee1538 on 1/4/12

10/10 to you is legalistic
so what exactly is 9/10?

Are you really willing to say that a church which teaches ALL TEN commandments is legalistic, but a church that teaches only 9/10 is not legalistic?
---francis on 1/5/12


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Why is he a false teacher?
---Scott1 on 1/5/12


//You yourself left a church that taught 10/10 COMMANDMENTS for one that teaches 9/10 and claim that this is the standard of God.

In other words, Rob left a church that was legalistic to one that preached the law was but a schoolmaster or guardian until we could be justified by faith. He left a church that preached the righteous live by faith, not by law.

Poor soul, when will you acquire eyes that see and realize that it is Jesus who is your savior, not yourself iwth your own obedience to law - the same thing the Apostle Paul declared to be trash?
---lee1538 on 1/4/12


---Rob on 1/4/12

Based on what YOU posted you must be blind, naive, and that decieved" I noticed how the large trees behind him were blowing in the wind, yet his hair and clothes were motionless."

What does being LIVE in jerusalem, and possibly in a studio have to do with false teachings?

I DARE YOU TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION!!!!!

You yourself left a church that taught 10/10 COMMANDMENTS for one that teaches 9/10 and claim that this is the standard of God.
Now NAIVE CAN THAT BE??
or WHO DECEIVED YO to make you think that 9/10 was the new christian standard?

I left a church that taught 8/10 for a church that teaches 10/10 I think YOU ROB are the blind one
---francis on 1/4/12


Francis, based on what you wrote on 1/3/12, are you really that blind, that naive, and that decieved?

I will be honest and admit there was a time in my life when I was in that very same state.

But to this very day, I am thankful the LORD HAS OPENNED MY EYES HAS SHOWN ME HIS TRUTH, AND HAS RESCUED ME FROM FALSE TEACHERS!!!
---Rob on 1/4/12


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It was cold, cloudy, and rainy in Jerusalem on Jan 1st and 2nd, for what it's worth.
---Rod4Him on 1/4/12


I once visited Pat Robertson's 700 club studio and when they gave the news, the announcer stated, now lets hear from our correspondent in Rio de Janeiro. The camera focused on a man with a picture of Rio in the background.

Yes, they do stunts like that all the time deliberately deceiving the audience. They have a need to keep the money flowing in.
---lee1538 on 1/3/12


WOW

1: the broadcast could have been LIVE in jerusalem ( meaning showing in Jerusalem at the same time it was being recorded) even though he was in studio else where

2: He could have been live in studio in jerusalem and broadcasting in USA at a later date


This is not even worth it
---francis on 1/3/12


The fellow probably uses a lot of hair mousse like me. The wind can't touch it! :)
---John.usa on 1/2/12


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Bill Willa, I have worked in media productions.

In the past, I tried to share with others how those of the Word Of Faith Movement, along with other FALSE TEACHERS will use BLUE SCREEN/ GREEN SCREEN TECHNOLOGY, along with other TACTICS to deceive others into believing they are in a certain place, when they are not.

THOSE WHO ARE OF CHRIST SHARE THE TRUTH. THOSE WHO ARE OF SATAN DECIEVE AND TELL LIES!!!

Unless a person has experience and a trained eye in this area, they probably won't have a clue.
---Rob on 1/2/12


Our own assuming can be a false teacher.

Do we assume there was no large glass window between him and the blowing trees? Do we assume he was not sheltered by a building structure near him keeping the wind from him while he did stand outdoors? Do we assume the view of blowing trees was not on a large screen behind him in a studio?

Are you a legal eyewitness that he was somewhere else, or are you an assumer who is a false witness? Or, do you have more information?
---Bill_willa6989 on 1/2/12


The False Teachers, which Is the family body of the Man - made trinity beginning with the r c c. For there is NO spiritual connection of the Jewish people & the trinity teachings.
The light for the Man - made trinity teaching & ministry came from here, 2nd.Cor.11 v's 14 - 15 & God put them here, Rev.17 v's 4 - 6.
---Lawrence_Nemeth on 1/2/12


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