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Tithe And File Bankruptcy

Should I tithe or pay my bills since I am facing bankruptcy.

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 ---joe on 1/5/12
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joe, When you give your offering, if you have a lot then give a lot, if you have a little give a little, and if you have none give none.
---Eloy on 1/16/12


Eloy, not forgiving someone who hurt you in anyway is also sin. Just wanted to remind you of that. it becomes a cancer in your life which begins to eat you up and effects your whole life.
---Mark_V. on 1/14/12


There are many types of bankruptcy. ---Jed on 1/10/12

Jed, you are right about that, however, Trish is also right. Since the bankruptcy laws changed in 2005 (the BAPCPA), more than not people are required to pay off their debts, usually over a 5 year period. They may not have to pay all if it, but they are making payments monthy.

There are many reasons why people go into bankruptcy, not all becuase of "life style." Loss of a job, major medical bills can be devistated to a family.
---NurseRobert on 1/14/12


As I also pointed out to Jed, two of the three forms of bankruptcy used by most people require paying back the debt
****

majority of bankruptcy cases are for PERSONAL debt NOT medical ...in all bankruptcy cases debtor will pay back FAR LESS than the amount of the DEBT (and some will pay back nothing) VERY few will ever pay the full amount of their debt because it is not meant to be paid off over 10 or 20 years like a mortgage it is done swiftly and payments are calculated by your monthly net income
bankruptcies are a burden on society and the COST is paid for by everyone

financial responsibility (as I've found out across multiple blog topics here) is a VERY DIRTY word for those who claim christianity
---Rhonda on 1/14/12



Trish, Jed:

I think that BOTH of you have some good points.

At the same time, I believe that there are always going to be "Deviations" from what is "Expected" because we live in a Fallen, Sinful, World.

GOD permits "Sin" to reign on this Earth. I believe that His reason for allowing "Sin" is to give us the opportunity to Choose among things.

The best choices are where we can be responsible Christians, who pay our debts, and live for GOD.

However, because of this imperfect world, there will always be: poor people, bankruptcies, divorce, war, sickness, etc. The Bible says so, but Jesus Christ has called us to peace!

---Sag on 1/13/12




Tithing is sin, and not paying your bills is also sin. Give offerings to Jesus, and also pay your bills.
---Eloy on 1/13/12


Trish, you keep ignoring the fact that most people that file bankruptcy have debts that exceeds their total assets. So even though their bank accounts are siezed and their assets are sold, there are still debts left unpaid when they get to start new. Also, creditors rightly deserve interest, fees, or some sort of compensation for being paid late, so it is wrong to try to get out of paying that when you owe it to them. It's your own irresponsiblity that caused the situation, not the people you owe the money too. Jesus said not to live like that. You're not going to convince me that Jesus would be happy with his people racking up debt and filing bankruptcy. I think Jesus would want us to pay people back and avoid debt altogether.
---Jed on 1/13/12


Rhonda, the difference between you and me is that you use satan and his works to defend what you are about to say concerning any topic spoken of. If the blog was about satan, then there would be reason to use his name. But not you, as some other do, bring him in to a godly discussion about bankruptcy. We know Christian should do better with their finances, but there is times when it cannot be avoided. If someone spouse leaves, they many times get you bankrupt. It can happen for many reasons.
---Mark_V. on 1/13/12


Rhonda: Medical expenses can easily put someone into bankrutptcy.

As I also pointed out to Jed, two of the three forms of bankruptcy used by most people require paying back the debt. Bankruptcy is protection from collections and reorganizing one's debts, and stopping the interest. Money is paid to the Trustee, who pays the creditors. A budget is set, and any real assets are evaluated and some are often sold off to pay back the creditors. Savings and checking accounts are examined to determine if there is money there to pay toward the debt. Finally, student loans do not get put into the bankruptcy. They are simply put on hold till the bankruptcy is completed, which is five years.

To judge without all the facts is very wrong.
---Trish on 1/12/12


You could have something good to say if you allowed youself to do it. Bring some hope not more of your condemning answers
****

oh my oh my

you condemned Jed with your smug answer and I'm the bad bad girl for pointing it out??

things that make you go hmmmm

you preach hope? your answer to Jed was about hope??? oh goodness that was lost on me

someone facing bankruptcy and is working needs a slap back into reality ...they are placing their "HOPE" on scamming the creditors that gave them money for the things they could not buy and the END RESULT is EVERYONE looses because do you think bankruptcy magically makes the debt go away??? EVERYONE pays the price of a bankruptcy it is called higher prices
---Rhonda on 1/12/12




Rhonda, is there any time when you can answer without bringing your satanic answers out? As I said before to you, every time you answer, you throw your satanic reply's together with your answers. You said:

"wow christian witchcraft at work CASTING SPELLS through blog posts now??"

You could have something good to say if you allowed youself to do it. Bring some hope not more of your condemning answers. I'm sure people will pay attention to you, someone might even take your advice. I don't know what faith you are from, but it sure is not Christian faith. For you don't like one thing from the Christian faith.
---Mark_V. on 1/12/12


Yes God looks at what you do have not what you do not . Many filings are because of medical bills , in fact thats the number one reason why people file . Crown Financial is excellent also, in teaching people about their finances .My company has a focus on financial wellness also
---pam on 1/12/12


Mark, I'm not saying that you can not be a christian if you have filed bankruptcy. What I'm saying is that there is a certain way that Christians should live and treat other people. That includes responsible living like living within your means, and working to pay your own bills, and not taking out loans for things you can't afford. Christians should think about the fact that something could happen that might keep them from paying their loan before they get the loan. Jesus said not to take out loans, because if you become unable to pay, even your bed will be taken from under you.
---Jed on 1/11/12


Jed: Mark makes a good point. Many people lose their medical benefits when they lose their jobs, and COBRA is often extremely expensive. My COBRA costs me $728 a month. Someone collecting unemployment benefits can't afford that kind of payment, and won't qualify for medical assistance. So, anyone with chronic illnesses, or one hospitalization will be in a mountain of debt through no fault of their own. Filing bankruptcy protects the person from losing everything because of the lousy job market.
---Trish on 1/11/12


Be careful what you say, you might get bankrupt, hope not.
*****

wow christian witchcraft at work CASTING SPELLS through blog posts now??

seems one is doing the bidding of Satan here

anyone who CARELESSLY tells someone to "be careful" is inwardly HOPING the very thing they are telling them to "be careful" about happens

it's simply a WICKED remark ...couldn't help but notice the OBVIOUS because one does not need the "requirement of professing christianity" to take notice of that purely evil wish on someone
---Rhonda on 1/11/12


Jed: Again, you are wrong. People file bankruptcy to get legal protection from being taken to court by their creditors. At the time of filing, the interest is frozen, and can no longer be added to the debt, making payoff attainable. Also, filing stops the creditors from taking the debtor to collections.
---Trish on 1/11/12


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Jed, I too have to disagree with you when you said,

"//If you call yourself a christian you should not be filing bankruptcy! This practice is not of God. Godly responsible people pay their debts.//"
Most of the things we do are not of God Jed. That does not mean we are not Christain or born of the Spirit. What you are suggesting is that those who get into bankruptcy are not Christian. Don't you realize that everyday, people are losing their jobs, get behind on home payments, and later are bankrupt? You seem to make it as though Christian have super human powers to stop losing their jobs and getting in debt. Many times the medical payments get them bankrupt.
Be careful what you say, you might get bankrupt, hope not.
---Mark_V. on 1/11/12


Trish, I did not post any untruth. You obviously don't understand the basic point of a bankruptcy. People file bankruptcy because they feel like they can't pay off their debts. If you intend to pay off your debt then you wouldn't be filing for bankruptcy, you would just pay the debt. People that want to avoid the fact that what they're doing is wrong acuse others of condemning them when they tell them the truth. People that want to grow accept the harsh truth with open arms. I did not condemn, I told him what he was planning on doing was wrong and what he should do now, which is pay off the debt by giving up the things that put him in debt. Jesus showed and told us how to live debt free.
---Jed on 1/11/12


Jed: I spoke based on what my bankruptcy lawyer told me. It's very rare when a person is not required to pay back the creditors.

It's all fine and good for you righteous pious folks to tell someone that it's against God's will to go into debt, but that does not solve the problem at hand. Offer some real encouragement, instead of condemnation laced with untruths.
---Trish on 1/10/12


Tithing 10% of income is a great weapon to combat the god of greed and worshipping with your heart "Love the Lord your God with ALL your heart...." and where your treasure (money) is your heart will be also"
*****

AMEN Scott!

saying you are "facing bankruptcy" AND employed one simply wants an easy way out

bankruptcy should be for those who have been JOBLESS for an extended period of time not those who are able bodied working AND receiving wages - the law is not written as such yet christians SHOULD live a better life than self imposed poverty and living for material things

seems this poster wants and excuse to claim bankruptcy if he must tithe reasoning away his poor money management
---Rhonda on 1/10/12


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Jed: You are clueless. I have been in bankruptcy, and I was required to pay all of my debtors. It is the law that most personal bankruptcies require paying the debtors through the bankruptcy.
---Trish on 1/9/12

No, Trish, you are clueless. There are many types of bankruptcy. But when you file bankruptcy, all your money and posessions will be taken from you and auctioned to pay the debts. But if your debt exceeds your total assets, then some of those debts don't get paid. You only pay whatever you have at the time of bankruptcy. You are not required to continue working and paying payments on those debts you couldn't pay off, that were left over. Jesus said not to get into debt, Trish.
---Jed on 1/10/12


2 Corinthians 9:7 reads:
"Each believer should give what they have decided in their heart to give, Not reluctantly or under compulsion, For God loves a cheerful giver."

You have taken this verse out of context. This verse is such that 1) you do not compare, pride, or feel guilty of different amounts of giving (v6). 2) this verse is about giving to the needy not God (v9 and v5). however, I will over look this but v6 says who ever sows sparingly will reap sparingly. Tithing 10% of income is a great weapon to combat the god of greed and worshipping with your heart "Love the Lord your God with ALL your heart...." and where your treasure (money) is your heart will be also"
---Scott1 on 1/10/12


Jed: You are clueless. I have been in bankruptcy, and I was required to pay all of my debtors. It is the law that most personal bankruptcies require paying the debtors through the bankruptcy. The bankruptcy is protection from legal action by the creditors so you can pay back the debts without being taken to court.
---Trish on 1/9/12


If you have been doing what God has had you do, keep doing this.

If your ways have gotten you into bankruptcy, then neither way is really what you need. You need to change your ways. This might include, "be content with such things as you have" > in Hebrews 13:5. And if you learn how to do things right, possibly you will be able to pay tithes and bills and have your cup running over, still, to help other people. So, God bless you (c:

God is not limited to one or another!
---Bill_willa6989 on 1/7/12


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obviously you are employed or tithing/bill paying would be impossible

so if you make $100.00 per week you are saying all your bills equal $10.00 and you must have $90.00 to live and play so you either pay your $10.00 in bills each month or tithe?

The question is absurd however seeing you are employed tithing 10% on your net income is one way to begin to understand your debt.
---Rhonda on 1/7/12


We all declared bankruptcy on our sin debt. That's what we do when we throw ourselves at the mercy of God and ask Jesus Christ to be our Savior.
---JackB on 1/7/12

I was CONVICTED when I read this.

I've bragged -- a lot -- that I've NEVER declared bankruptcy. Maybe a few foolish financial decisions here-and-there, but NEVER bankruptcy! Wise is ME !!!

I must admit that God was using you, JackB, to get me to see the real truth:

His own son Jesus Christ paid my debt once I declared bankruptcy and repented of my sins. My own pride was keeping me blinded from understanding that.

Thanks for the convicting words.
---Sag on 1/7/12


That's the silliest thing Ive ever heard Jed.

We all declared bankruptcy on our sin debt. That's what we do when we throw ourselves at the mercy of God and ask Jesus Christ to be our Savior.

One who has a huge debt forgiven but is unwilling to forgive a debt owed to him. I seem to recall Jesus telling a parable about what would happen to that wicked man.
---JackB on 1/7/12


Joe, I do not know if you are born of the Spirit or not but I believe if you don't know what to do, you are in big trouble. The Spirit should be helping you, and it seems, He is not. No one forces you to give anything. Not even God. The spirit of giving comes from the Holy Spirit. God doesn't need your money to accomplish His purpose and will, all He has to do is speak and it is done. The churches need money to be maintained. If you make a promise or vow to give a certain amount, keep your promise. If you didn't, you are not obligated to give. If you break a vow, it only hurts your conscience. Your conscience should guide you to do what is right. God speaks to our conscience. Most answers about tithes or giving always have a bias intention.
---Mark_V. on 1/7/12


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//If you call yourself a christian you should not be filing bankruptcy! This practice is not of God. Godly responsible people pay their debts.//
---Jed on 1/6/12


we are all humanly bankrupt. thank god one was sent to pay the debt. sin is one debt no man can repay no matter how christian you are.
---aka on 1/6/12



1) you lost your job that means you can not give all you were giving. And you cannot take pride in your giving
2) you can only RETURN the tithe you can not GIVE a tithe thus 2 corthians does not apply.

---Scott1 on 1/6/12

Only Jews need to Return a Tithe. Christians DO NOT.

My former Pastor declared that God wanted the church to purchase -- on a mortgage -- a large building.

He commanded EACH church member to complete a Faith Promise for donating a Tithe for paying off the large mortgage.

In hindsight, this was all an issue of a church buying "More Building Than They Could Afford".

And me promising "More Than I Could Afford To Tithe".

Shame on ME !!!
---Sag on 1/6/12


If you call yourself a christian you should not be filing bankruptcy! This practice is not of God. Godly responsible people pay their debts.
---Jed on 1/6/12

I agree with you, but in this Sinful world, even Christians end up going through what clearly isn't from God.

I believe that Christians should NEVER --

File Bankruptcy
Get Divorced
Commit Crimes
Lie or Cheat
Have Adulterous Affairs
etc. etc.

Now, at least in the USA, these Sins seems to be as prevalent among Christians as anyone else.

In the case of Bankruptcy, I think that the Government has made it TOO EASY to just walk away from your financial obligations.
---Sag on 1/6/12


---Sag on 1/5/12
1) you lost your job that means you can not give all you were giving. And you cannot take pride in your giving
2) you can only RETURN the tithe you can not GIVE a tithe thus 2 corthians does not apply.
Joe
Tithe what you make and cut what you do not need. aka can you sell your car, cut TV, cut smartphone etc.
---Scott1 on 1/6/12


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If you call yourself a christian you should not be filing bankruptcy! This practice is not of God. Godly responsible people pay their debts. When you file bankruptcy you are really sticking it to all the people you owed money to. If you want to be right with God you pay your debts and your tithe, even if that means you sell everything and live out of your car, or even if you sell your car. You work to pay off that debt. A Christian doesn't rack up debts to people and then just say "forget it I can't pay". A Christian doesn't treat people like that. Be responsible for your actions. Pay your debts.
---Jed on 1/6/12


Hi Joe,

Either the Word of God is True or it is not. If God has NEVER come through for you then pay your bills yourself but if you have EVER seen God give you a miracle then trust him. Don't let FEAR or other peoples negative experiences make you lose your blessing. I am living proof that God DOES come through in the nick of time. God Bless You!!!
---The_Believer on 1/6/12


why don't you ask your pastor some financial help since your pastor can afford to drive a luxury car & live in a home.
---bill on 1/6/12


agreed. the use of credit to tithe is not tithing or generous giving at all. it is poor stewardship. (not criticizing you, seg. to a degree, i was there too.)
---aka on 1/6/12

You with the nail on the head!

STEWARDSHIP

I now know that practicing Good Stewardship with our money -- actually, God's money entrusted to us -- is MORE important than Tithing.

And the Bible says, in Romans 13:8 --

Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law.
---Sag on 1/6/12


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In the Old Testament, TITHING was a commandment that applied to the Jews, and has never been rescinded or ended.

Things changed once Jesus Christ established his Kingdom on Earth. In the New Testament, 2 Corinthians 9:7 reads:

"Each believer should give what they have decided in their heart to give, Not reluctantly or under compulsion, For God loves a cheerful giver."

In other words, Christians have been RELEASED from the commandment to Tithe. The Jews, however, are still bound by the Tithing commandment.

Christian churches should NOT teach Tithing, but 2 Corinthians 9:7 instead.

I believe that God would want us to Pay Our Bills, AVOID Bankruptcy, and be Cheerful Givers, rather than Tithe!
---Sag on 1/6/12


Hi Joe,

Please trust GOD and tithe.
Numbers 23v19 says "that God is NOT a man that he should lie, nor the son of man that he should change his mind, because he said it he WILL DEFINITELY do it,and because he has spoken it he WILL DEFINITELY make it good".

I was on the verge of severe bailiff removal and God blessed me with a 2000 pound miracle from an unknown source. GOD is a faithful provider! Take your eyes off the circumstance and pay your tithes as usual especially when things seem tight. THIS IS THE TIME FOR YOUR GREATEST MIRACLE - please walk in obedience and DONT MISS IT!!! God Bless You!!
---The_Believer on 1/6/12


//God will provide for your needs regardless of whether or not you tithe.// ---Sag on 1/5/12

agreed. the use of credit to tithe is not tithing or generous giving at all. it is poor stewardship. (not criticizing you, seg. to a degree, i was there too.)
---aka on 1/6/12


Your own spending habits need to be looked into. Tithing isn't the culprit.

Consider other ways to tithe to your church. Avoid going Bankrupt.

At my church, tithing isn't just giving money, but also your time and talents/spiritual gifts.

God has given each believer gifts for building up his church. See these Bible verses:

Romans 12:6-8
1 Corinthians 12:8-10
1 Corinthians 12:28
Ephesians 4:11
1 Peter 4:11

At my church, in place of giving money to the church, some members volunteer their time, gas money, and vehicles for snow and ice removal. Saves our church the expense of hiring a snow removal business.

Other members cook church meals, do construction work, maintain the lawn, etc.
---Augie on 1/6/12


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I once attended a Charistmatic, Pentacostal like, church. I always tithed. That involved using Credit Cards when I lost my job.

I ended up in "financial trouble". While I never had to declare bankruptcy, I did explain to my Pastor that my generous giving was going to have to change or even temporarily end. He didn't offer to help or even pray with me. Just warned me that I was going to suffer badly for NOT tithing. Hmmm.

Sounds like this Pastor didn't really care about me. I quit attending His church and tithing too. Soon the church folded.

I think that paying your bills, and AVOIDING the use of Credit, is more important than tithing. God will provide for your needs regardless of whether or not you tithe.
---Sag on 1/5/12


YOur being on the brink of bankruptcy has nothing to do with tithing. It has to do with spending more than you should. Stop using cable television, internet, cell phones, etc. Stop spending more than you make and your finances will turn around. And tithe also.
---KarenD on 1/5/12


If it were me, I'd tithe. This is being stated because for 33 years my wife and I were, what they call, "Faith Missionary's". This means we had to raise support. Not once did we "miss a meal" during the whole 33 year and I think part of this was because we always tithed what income we received before paying any bills.

Philippians 4:19 (NASB77)
And my God shall supply all your needs according to His riches in glory in Christ Jesus.
---wivv on 1/5/12


Joe, tithing is not required unless you are an Israelite living in the land of Israel with a temple in operation and Levites on hand to receive your tithes. And under those conditions, only agricultural products and livestock are tithed. So you are free to pay your bills and avoid bankruptcy!
---John.usa on 1/5/12


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