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How Do We Follow Jesus Today

How Do We Follow Jesus Today?

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 ---micha8489 on 1/5/12
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"HOW do we Follow Jesus TODAY....Ans we follow Him in to death and resurrection life, being raised victorious over sin, self and death!"

Only for Christ to declare unto you, "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
---christan on 2/7/12


" GRACE is Jesus death and resurrection,"
Grace is the manifestation of God's love and mercy toward sinful men( 2 Cor. 8,9: Titus 2:11). God's essential nature includes both love ( 1 John 4:16) manifested in mercy and grace, and holiness ( 1 John 1:5), manifested in righteous judgment of sin. ---
---Mark_V. on 2/7/12


THAT was demonstrated by God so loving the world that God gave His Only Begotten son to die on a cross for our sin. His MERCY is IN CHRIST ALONE not His good humor!....THAT is what YOU seem to be overlooking. YOU say there is GRACE apart from teh sacrifice of Jesus Christ..


WRONG!!!

YOU and christan are anti-christ to continually thwart this truth!
---kathr4453 on 2/7/12


kathr, now you know why talking to you is like talking to the serpent in the garden? Your theology of salvation by grace in the OT is proved you have totally no understanding of Hebrews 11.

It's Paul who taught us of how Abraham was saved in Romans 3 & 4, and the writer of Hebrews even extended the same teaching with the first saint Abel that they were saved by grace through Faith just like all the Christians before and after Christ walk on earth.

For you to say, "They were ONLY JUSTIFIED. They were not sanctifiied through the body of Christ....there was no body!" shows how dark your understanding of Justification by Faith is. Wasn't the prime example of Justification by Faith Abraham?
---christan on 2/7/12


Aka, I believe you are right that the example Jesus gave in the washing of feet, was not a directive for all the Apostles and all believers to do literally. The passage had a spiritual example, the reason He said, "Do you know what I have done to you?". The cleansing that Christ does at salvation never needs to be repeated-atonement is complete at that point. But all who have been cleansed by God's gracious Justification need constant washing in the experiential sense as they battle sin in the flesh. Believers are justified and granted imputed righteousnes (Phil. 3:8,9) but still need sanctification and personal righteousness (Phil. 3:12-14).
---Mark_V. on 2/7/12


Kathr, you have no clue anymore what you are saying. You put a lot of religious talk to sound like you really know the Truth. You have no faith in the real Truth.
You said:
" GRACE is Jesus death and resurrection,"
Grace is the manifestation of God's love and mercy toward sinful men( 2 Cor. 8,9: Titus 2:11). God's essential nature includes both love ( 1 John 4:16) manifested in mercy and grace, and holiness ( 1 John 1:5), manifested in righteous judgment of sin. God's grace provides not only salvation but security. This is accomplished by the continuation of the Divine work of grace despite the believer's imperfections. Eph. 2:8) reads literally, "By Grace you are saved and continue to be"
---Mark_V. on 2/7/12




Where did Moses ever say...Shall we continue to SIN that GRACE may abound???God forbid! HOW SHALL WE< THAT ARE DEAD TO SIN LIVE ANY LONGER IN IT


KNOW YE NOT that those who were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into His death?

SO GRACE in Romans 6-8, is our identifiction with Jesus death and resurrection.

So christan, the POST QUESTION is not your one verse calvinism song and dance. So please stop trying to take EVERY BLOG question and reducing it to some elemantary level of YOUR only understanding.

HOW do we Follow Jesus TODAY....Ans we follow Him in to death and resurrection life, being raised victorious over sin, self and death!

GOOD DAY Christan!
---kathhr4453 on 2/7/12


christan, GRACE is Jesus death and resurrection, WE are saved by Jesus death and resurrection. Justified by HIS BLOOD and saved BY HIS LIFE, That was not available in the OT. They looked forward to the cross. They were ONLY JUSTIFIED. They were not sanctifiied through the body of Christ....there was no body! Their sins were only covered by animal blood, not washed away once and for all in Christ's blood. Only the High priest could enter through the veil FOR the sins of the people.

NOW WE can come boldly to throne of GRACE through the veil, that is to say HIS FLESH.

Yes they had faith as do we, but were not saved BY GRACE through faith.
---kathr4453 on 2/6/12


christan, again...no one in teh OT was crucified with Christ and baptized into Christ's death and raised up a NEW CREATION.

The CHURCH was not revealed in the OT scriptures or that CHRIST was to indwell the believer, making up the Church, HIS BODY, made up of both Jew and Gentile making ONE NEW MAN.

Gentiles who joined themselves to Israel were proselyte and converted to Judaism. TODAY a gentile does not have to convert to Judaism to be saved. Just read Galatians.
---kathr4453 on 2/6/12


1 Corinthians 1:18
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness, but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

christan, is the preaching of the CROSS foolishness to you?

I'm preaching the CROSS christan, of which you continue to thwart and thumb your nose at!

I realize this is your problem, not mine.
---kathr4453 on 2/6/12


"So you say OT saints lived under LAW and Grace at the same time????"

Where and when did I ever say these words? You put words in my "mouth" and you expect me to answer your lies?

READ THIS: I say and declare to you that ALL SAINTS of God, be it the OT or NT or post-NT are saved by His GRACE! Justified by FAITH! And in order for this to even happen, God has already chosen them in His Son Jesus Christ BEFORE THE FOUNDATIONS OF THE WORLD that they should be Holy and blameless, as taught by Paul in Ephesians.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." This is the covenant of Grace!
---christan on 2/6/12




//So you don't follow Jesus' commands for foot washing, the Lord's supper or baptism, eh. Not much of a Christian, are you?

I do observe all the rites that our Lord has instituted including the Eucharist and baptism. However, I do not see footwashing as a command in the Scripture.

Like yourself I have different interpretations of the Bible howbeit, my interpretation is based upon the solid ground of biblical scholarship of those whom the Lord has called into the teaching ministry of His church.

Your only guide is olde Ellen White - a person that had a brain injury and probably was possessed by a demon.
---lee1538 on 2/6/12


if you're implying that anyone should be asking you for wisdom about the Word of God, it's like talking to the serpent in the garden all over again. Such are your interpretations of the Word of God that you teach OT saints and the NT saints are saved differently from each other apart from Faith.

Isn't that's what you are implying? Yes or no?
---christan on 2/6/12


To accuse someone who understands the doctrine of the CROSS as conversating with satan is really DEMONIC christan. And it's because you continually call this doctrine of the cross EVIL, makes me wonder if you are even saved or just ignorant.

A NEW AND LIVING WAY...through the veil, that is to say His Flesh...A NEW AND LIVIN WAY christan

....
---kathr4453 on 2/6/12


Mark v
Show me one scripture that says Jesus was our substitute, then look up the verses I quoted, jesus died to set us free from the bondages of sin, not take our place or wrath, substitution wasnt taught by the early church, and pre forgiveness of sins is a doctrine of demons,(osas) please read Eze ch 18. Heb ch 9, explains the sin offering, Jesus cant be our substitute and example at the same time.
---Tommy8976 on 2/6/12


Hebrews 10:19-21 19Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh,

21And having an high priest over the house of God,

Also no OT saint could ever say, I AM Cricified with Christ, and it is no longer I that live but Christ who lives in me, and the life that I NOW LIVE in the FLESH, I live by the faith of the Only Begotten son who loved me and ? ...GAVE...past tense His life for me....I do not made void the GRACE of God, for if roighteousness comes by law, Christ died in vain.

So you say OT saints lived under LAW and Grace at the same time???? SCRIPTURE PLEASE!
---kathr4453 on 2/6/12


Tommy, if Jesus was not dying for your sins and mine on the cross, then what was He doing on the Cross? Instead of us paying the penalty, He paid it in full. Is that not substituting for us? For our sins? We should be up there on the cross, not Him for us. He didn't do anything wrong, we did.
---Mark_V. on 2/6/12


Yes or no?
---christan on 2/6/12


You mean like Markv, feels he needs to TEACH everyone here on line.

christan please keep your evil demonic comments to yourself.

It's obvious you do not understand the TRUE GOSPEL according to the mystery, that was not even revealed until AFTER Jesus rose from the dead. Please revisit yourself with Colossians 1 and 2.

AND please refrain from your evil sarcastic arrogant remarks to those who may KNOW more than you do...or maybe believe according to scripture and not according to Calvin. Calvin is YOUR HEAD, Christ is mine!
---kathr4453 on 2/6/12


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kathr, do you even know what the context of 1 Corinthians 10 that Paul was teaching? He sure wasn't teaching that the OT saints were saved any differently from the NT saints when they were "baptized into Moses" as what you are implying. It was symbolic!

And if you're implying that anyone should be asking you for wisdom about the Word of God, it's like talking to the serpent in the garden all over again. Such are your interpretations of the Word of God that you teach OT saints and the NT saints are saved differently from each other apart from Faith.

Isn't that's what you are implying? Yes or no?
---christan on 2/6/12


aka: "i see were jesus did wash feet, but i do not see the actual directive or commandment."

Joh 13:14, 15 If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet, ye also ought to wash one another's feet. For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.


---jerry6593 on 2/6/12


Lee: "Do I believe Christ instituted a religious rite like the Lords supper or baptism when He washed the feet of the disciples? No, such a rite was not observed by the early church"

So you don't follow Jesus' commands for foot washing, the Lord's supper or baptism, eh. Not much of a Christian, are you?


---jerry6593 on 2/6/12


1 Corinthians 10
1Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea,

2And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea,

3And did all eat the same spiritual meat,

4And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

5But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

6Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

Christan obviously has never read 1st and 2nd Corinthians.
---kathr4453 on 2/6/12


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Christan, maybe you need to PRAY first before posting.

DID I say, or anyone for that matter that Moses died for anyone sin?

WHY do you project your own ignorance into something?

Be like others christan, ASK what it means first before ignorantly stating what YOU think something means and then bashing your own ignorance! It makes you look very foolish and childish.

Are we saved by baptism now?
---kathr4453 on 2/6/12


Oh, I may have figgured it out, ...christan and company do not believe THEY need any warnings or admonishments that Paul wrote. They pick and choose what ever verses in scripture they want.

And the reason christan and company are so far behind and lacking in truth is because they spend all their time cursing others rather than PRAYING FIRST and studying to show themselves approved OF GOD! .
---kathr4453 on 2/6/12


"OT Israel was baptized into MOSES"? Wow! I've heard of one being baptized into Christ but Moses? Didn't the Bible declare, "For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ." John 1:17

Moses represented the law of God, to be "baptized into Moses" would than mean that one is saved by obeying the law? How can that be when Paul declared, "Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression." Romans 4:15

Again Scripture declares, "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin." Romans 3:20

Goodness gracious!
---christan on 2/5/12


Through an obedient faith,James2:20, a working faith in love,Gal 5:6.loving not the world,1 Jn 2:15-16. remember, Jesus didn't die as our substitute, but as a sin offering,Heb,9-14.To be our example. Obedience matters, and will affect ones eternal destiny.Eze18-26. repentance happens before mercy can be granted.Jonah ch3.
---Tommy8976 on 2/5/12


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foot washing was a custom at the time. i see were jesus did wash feet, but i do not see the actual directive or commandment.

we can serve each other in subservience that is more appropriate to our society.
---aka on 2/5/12


Jerry -Do I believe Christ instituted a religious rite like the Lords supper or baptism when He washed the feet of the disciples?

No, such a rite was not observed by the early church, as it was primarily a rite of hospitality among Jews, a common thing performed by servants.

However, it teaches us to condescend to others in that we should regard ourselves as servants of others even in the most humble of ways.
---lee1538 on 2/5/12


Lee: "Jesus was talking about washing each others feet."

Right! Do YOU do as He commanded? We do. He also commanded:

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

I know that you do NOT do that.


---jerry6593 on 2/5/12


OT Saints were COVERED by the blood of bulls and goats, as it says in Hebrews 10, and were never MADE PERFECT by an animal blood COVERING. NOT YET PERFECT is because a temporary covering of animal blood did not WASH AWAY SIN once and for all. Year after year a blood atonement was made for the sins of ALL( Israel's ) the people. .

At Calvary Jesus shed HIS BLOOD once and for all not for Jews but Gentiles, and has this to say...

WHO SO EVER BELIEVES, Therefore FAITH IN Jesus death and resurrection is based on individual FAITH. The very act of sacrifice was faith. Same with Abel, the very ACT of his sacrifice WAS His faith and obedience to God's KNOWN desire.
---kathr4453 on 2/5/12


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CAN you follow Jesus without Faith? The just or justified shall LIVE by Faith, that is continually living by the faith of Christ. Our faith and or obedience now is not in the law but TO A PERSON, the Person of Jesus Christ. THAT MYSTERY that was hidden and not revealed until Jesus rose from the dead is CHRIST IN YOU, the hope of Glory.

So salvation IS CHRIST IN YOU and you living by the faith of HIS RISEN LIFE IN YOU. So our salvation is MORE than just having our sin covered, or washed away, but NOW in this dispensation of GRACE we have HIS LIFE in us. "I in them, and thou in Me that we all may be ONE", His Body called the CHURCH. We are baptized into Christ...OT Israel was baptized into moses.
---kathr4453 on 2/5/12


Now OT Israel was baptized into MOSES, not Christ. TODAY all saved, both Jew and Gentile are baptized into Christ.

When God spoke in the OT about a FUTURE time (this is called prophecy) that He will put HIS SPIRIT in you,Paul reiterates this in 2 Corinthians 3....

Paul is saying under the New Testament, aka New Covenant...(please look at 2 Cor 3 where NEW Testament is used,)that this PROPHECY spoken of, but was not then fulfilled, is NOW FULFILLED IN CHRIST.

If OT saints were indwelt already with God's Spirit in them, then no such PROPHECY needed to be said.

---kathr4453 on 2/5/12


ALL of God's people (aka His elect) are saved by Grace through Faith (read Romans & Galatians chapters 3 & 4, Hebrews 11). From Abel to the last saint God has chosen before the foundations of the world and have given these elect to His Son Jesus Christ in His covenant of Grace - contrary to some foolish teachings that's being propagated here that the OT saints are saved separately from the NT saints.

Other than the teachings and revelations through Paul by Jesus Christ in the epistles written - there's no other kind of salvation unless one receives it from Satan then such is a lie. Do not be fooled that what happened in Genesis 3 between the serpent and A & E is not happening everyday.
---christan on 2/4/12


Jerry6593//Joh 13:15 For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.

Jesus was talking about washing each others feet.However, we are to serve one another.

//John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Then why do you follow olde Ellen White instead?

If we are to follow Jesus today, we must listen to what He says to us and we do that in prayer and in reading His word.

---lee1538 on 2/4/12


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How can we follow Jesus in His ministry here on earth?
It's evident from 1 Cor. 15:1-4 that the gospel of our salvation includes the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus as payment for our sins. This simple truth is the cornerstone of Christianity. Yet no where in Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John did the Twelve Apostles understand the preaching of the cross
---michael_e on 2/4/12


Joh 13:15 For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.

Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

---jerry6593 on 2/4/12


kathr4453 Amen
---michael_e on 2/4/12


//We are saved by GRACE, that is we are saved by Jesus death and resurrection life, and OUR identification with Jesus Christ in death and resurrection.

Totally agree and our walk is of that ministry of the Spirit and not of that ministry of death and condemnation (2 Cor. 3:7,9)that our spirtual blind Adventists are advocating.
---lee1538 on 2/4/12


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By purifying the heart through repentance and faith, Acts 3-19, stopping the sin first, through godly sorrow, 2 Cor 7-10-11,then we obey Jesus with a pure and obedient heart. Acts 20-21.Jesus came to save us out of our sins not In them.
---Tommy8976 on 2/4/12


We serve Jesus just like he served his Father. In obedience with love,listening for God to lead,in thoughtful prayer,in steadfast devotion,in total commitment to God,putting him first,dying to self,and living a life holy and above reproach. Lifting up our hands in complete surrender to God's Word and his will for us,trusting with steadfast faith.
---Darlene_1 on 2/4/12


The way we FOLLOW Jesus is through death and resurrection life.

That I may KNOW HIM and teh power of His resurrection and the felloship of His suffering, being made conformable to His death that if by any means I may attain to the resurrection of the dead.

Under the old dispensation of the Law no such requirements were possible. Paul taught teh dispensation of GRACE which is Christ CRUCIFIED. We are saved by GRACE, that is we are saved by Jesus death and resurrection life, and OUR identification with Jesus Christ in death and resurrection. THIS IS what Romans 6-8 is all about, and what Paul is teaching and saying through out all his letters based on the foundation of Romans 4-8.
---kathr4453 on 2/4/12


//dispensation??? nothing implied from Holy Scripture about this idea//
Eph.3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given ME to YOU-ward:
Col.1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to ME for YOU, to fulfil the word of God,
//I follow GODS Holy Word Luke 4:4//
1 Cor. 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the COMMANDMENTS of the Lord
---michael_e on 1/16/12


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How Do We Follow Jesus Today?

To love - with genuine love - which encompasses all the laws and commandments found in God's word.
---Steveng on 1/13/12


About 17 years after the crucifixion, the Jews that had accepted Jesus as the promised Messiah (probably many), decided that they no longer should be known as MEMBERS OF the Way (God does not want anyone to be a 'follower type of person').

Acts 9:2 "so that if he found any belonging to the Way" (only a "MEMBER OF" can "BELONG TO").

We each are to be a 'spiritual member' of the body that hung on the cross.
A "follower" has a "MASTER" that must be obeyed, but God doesn't wish to be our master.

The Godly person must not need to be commanded in order that "goodness" come from them (they must be a LOVER OF GOODNESS).
---more_excellent_way on 1/14/12


A Godly person must be "MASTER OF himself" (God wants us to know Him as "ABBA FATHER" (DEAR FATHER, so that we should be "SONS").

Titus 1:8 "lover of goodness, master of himself"
.....(the ancient Jews needed to be taught to 'surrender' their greedy, uncivilized ways).

Be THE one and only master of yourself and spiritually BELONG TO the one who hung on the cross (JESUS was the 'REVEALING OF' GOD IN ENTIRETY......Jesus is the 'revealing Word' of Abba Father).
---more_excellent_way on 1/14/12


Aka, you said I should have said,

""Christan, give them, who do not understand, a break. after all, everything, including their spiritual ignorance, was/is predestined.""

We understand those who do not understand now. That is why we answer. The spiritual ignorance might change in some, if God has called you, and has prepared your way through His Word of Truth. I know I don't keep going on for nothing. My duty is to continue to spread the Word of God, and God takes over as to who will begin to understand. If someone had not gave me the Word of Truth I would still be in ignorance.
We don't know who is predestined for life, but those that are, will receive the Truth by faith at the appointed time of God.
---Mark_V. on 1/14/12


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Did you know that there is more than one gospel in the Bible?
Did you know Jesus was baptized multiple times?
Did you know that the disciples were ignorant about why Christ had to die and tried to prevent it?
Did you know that Paul, who was converted after Jesus died, was the first to hear and trust the gospel that will save you from hell?
---michael_e on 1/14/12


He revealed through the Apostle Paul His new program for this dispensation of the grace of God, so that now we do not follow Him in His humility, as the Messiah of Israel
****

dispensation??? nothing implied from Holy Scripture about this idea

if it is found in the man-made catechism than you follow man and HIS WORD

I follow GODS Holy Word Luke 4:4

this "new-age" theory you present is unsupported in Holy Scripture

NOTHING Apostle Paul wrote implies or alludes to this opinion
---Rhonda on 1/14/12


In 2012 we follow Jesus in the same manner that His first followers did. They were called Followers of the Way, not Christians.

They followed Jesus Christ because they believed and trusted in Him and they folowed His gospel which was the gospel of the Kingdom and not the gospel of grace that was later introduced by the founder of Christianity, Paul.
---barb on 1/13/12


While on earth, "Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers" (Rom. 15:8). He was a Jew among the Jews, confining His ministry to the nation Israel, and announcing Himself as their King. Israel having rejected Him, He went back to glory, and when Israel continued their rejection, He revealed through the Apostle Paul His new program for this dispensation of the grace of God, so that now we do not follow Him in His humility, as the Messiah of Israel, but we follow Him as the glorified One and the Head of the Body.
1 Cor. 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
---michael_e on 1/11/12


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We are not to follow Jesus, a minister of the circumcision in the land of the Jews, but we are to be occupied with Him
******

We are to be "occupied with Christ"???

Not according to Holy Scripture!!!

Per Holy Scripture TRUE Believers FOLLOW Christ

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me

John 8:12
...he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

1 Peter 2:21
For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
---Rhonda on 1/11/12


i never made light of predestination. i praise him that he is the author of predestination/will.
---aka on 1/10/12


The cry of these so-called Modernists, who are no more than christianized agnostics, is "Back to Jesus," and it is sad to relate that some Fundamentalists seem to be echoing the cry of these infidel preachers. God's program is not back to Jesus, but on to the Mystery. We are not to follow Jesus, a minister of the circumcision in the land of the Jews, but we are to be occupied with Him as He now is, seated at the Father's right hand in the heavenlies, and made to be the Head over all things to the Church, which is His Body.
---michael_e on 1/10/12


aka, making light/mocking predestination from God is exactly what God has indeed predestined you to do. Should one die in this state without God's mercy, the end is obvious.

You are right to say that God's (fyi, you were missing God) will and predestination goes hand in hand. Isaiah did declare to us that it was God's will to send Jesus to Calvary that He may save His people from their sins. But will alone is insufficient, and to make sure it comes to past, God predestined that very event to take place.

As Peter declared, "...both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done." Acts 4:27,28
---christan on 1/10/12


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"How Do We Follow Jesus Today?"
As little children, submitting without protest to His indwelling presence. Faithfully, In humility, sincerity, trust and dependence.
---josef on 1/10/12


By not selling goods in church, as a woman you should honour your husband by covering whilst in prayer.Be silent in the church of God and if you do not understand anything ask in view of respect to the order of the scriptures... and if you get criticised for being legalistic, thinking you are better than those who both pray uncovered and have short hair, your in the wrong place... God is not there... and if you find that there's not one church that adheres to the written word as this is scripture... then you know people have truly become more lovers of themselves than of God...The end is near and the church has become a den of thieves and hypocrites
---Carla on 1/9/12


By doing Jesus' commandments: Repent, be baptized, pray, confess your sins, worship God, study the Word, do the works of Christ and be a doer of the Word, depart from wrong and abstain from evil, be perfect, be righteous, be good and bear good fruit, be obedient, sin not, be clean, be pure, be holy, lie not, bless and curse not, love God completely, love your neighbor as yourself, love your enemies, fight the good fight, share your faith and make disciples, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the shut-ins and prisoners and the infirmed, and be a father to the fatherless, a friend to the friendless, a helper to the helpless.
---Eloy on 1/9/12


//Christan, I often wonder why people have a hard time understanding truth.// markv

if predestination is as you and christan see it, it seems that your statement should read something like this:

"Christan, give them, who do not understand, a break. after all, everything, including their spiritual ignorance, was/is predestined."

christan, i guess it really does not matter what i say. but, predestination (and its variations) in the bible are much less than the "if, then clauses" throughout the bible. e.g. Rev 22:1819.

predestination and will go together. like a coin, if heads are separated from the tails, the coin becomes worthless.
---aka on 1/9/12


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Love the Lord your God with ALL of your heart, mind, body, soul.
---Scott1 on 1/9/12


Exactly MarkV. The difference is very simple as taught in the Scriptures. It's called FAITH. We know through the revelation taught by Paul that FAITH is a very precious gift from God. And through the testimony of the Scripture, God does not dispense this precious gift unto everyone born of the flesh but to only those whom He has loved from eternity.

We are taught that only in His time, His elect will receive this precious gift that they may repent to the Father and believe in His Son Jesus Christ. Many have this the other way round and that we know is untrue.

More importantly, the salvation of God's people is rooted in His Holy love. That's why His elect can never loose their salvation, and that's because of God's love for them.
---christan on 1/9/12


Christan, I often wonder why people have a hard time understanding truth. God created a plan, in which He was going to show His Mercy, His atonement, His love, His Omnipotence, Omniscience, Omnipresence and so many more of His Attributes. So the question is, how could He show all those things, without the counterpart been there? Mercy is called mercy because there is Justice. Otherwise there would be no mercy. Love is called love because their is hate. The atonement would not be an atonement if there was no sin. There would be no need for heaven if there was no hell. If we were perfect, we would not need to know what Omnipotence, Omniscience, Omnipresence means, because we would be perfect knowing all things. But only God is perfect.
---Mark_V. on 1/8/12


//your very actions speaks volume.// i know it does. to several and they say different things to different audiences...but i am only concerned with one. he knows our hearts. i am not charged with convincing you.

//Quoting Genesis 3:2,3 does not justify that A & E had the "free-will" to disobey God, // the assumption is always "free will" or calvinism. please read what i say and selah. based on what i read in the bible, it is not about either. it is about "will" (not free-will) AND predestination (not pure calvinism). i do know that things were predestined to glorify Jesus Christ. AND...

(please, wait for the rest before you reply. my time and ability to reply is limited. )
---aka on 1/8/12


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aka, it's not just about "you said this and that", so let's not trivialize the Word of God, which you are speaking against. Since you refused to answer my question, I cannot force you, but your very actions speaks volume.

Quoting Genesis 3:2,3 does not justify that A & E had the "free-will" to disobey God, which I know is where you are going. Their disobedience was foreordained by God according to Paul in Romans 11:32. Why?, you might ask. According to 1 Peter 1:18-20, the Father was ONLY going to glorify His Son Jesus Christ in the salvation of His people and this was already foreordained before the foundations of the world. In order to fulfill His plan, A & E MUST FALL! Awesome plan isn't it?
---christan on 1/8/12


fine, christan. i do not have time to go back and say, "you said this, and i said that..." like many here who seem to have all day and night and post several 125s in a row on each blog question.

for the sake of argument, i will concede that a & e were deceived and did not choose to disobey God, but, lets go back a verse or two.

Gen 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

are you saying this was a mistake or intentional embellishment (not malevolence...just embellishment)?
---aka on 1/7/12


aka, please tell me what points have I missed in your words that I misunderstood and bore false witness of your testimony? Please correct me if I am wrong but you actually believe that a man is not dead in his spirit as declared in Scripture and that he has the ability to believe and choose Jesus, right?

It is not I who judge your words but the Word of God, for His Word comes against this theology, plain and simple.

And choosing to believe God's Word and His declarations or yours, do you really think that it's a difficult choice to make?
---christan on 1/7/12


christan, you are so entenched in someone elses theology that my point is missed on you and in addition, i do not report to john wesley or john calvin or any other man's theology as you do.

//Genesis 3:5 - here lies the deception of "free-will"// and here lies the deception of calvinism.

//Satan deceived Adam & Eve, "For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."//

yes, you can believe what God says or what i say. now, do what you will.

the rest is history and yet still the same with us until He returns.
---aka on 1/7/12


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matt8:21-22 "another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. But Jesus said unto him, Follow me, and let the dead bury their dead."
Matt 16:24-25 "Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it."
matt 19:21 "Jesus said...If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me." vs 26 "But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible"
---Chria9396 on 1/7/12


aka, you said, "God will save the few who choose to follow His Son" which is "free-will" doctrine and contradict yourself saying "i do not espouse the theology of free-will." How confused you sound, even John Wesley would have been ashamed of your confession of faith in "free-will"?

Being formed in the "image of God" does not imply you have the powers of God to do as you will. Satan deceived Adam & Eve, "For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." Genesis 3:5 - here lies the deception of "free-will".

Like the worldly saying goes, they rest is history.
---christan on 1/7/12


//The theology of "free-will"// christan

i do not espouse the theology of free-will. if you say "free-will", then there must be "unfree-will" (Calvinism).

in the image of God, there is only "will" and we are free to give ours to God or to keep it for other reasons.
---aka on 1/6/12


"Man has to do more than Jesus did. Jesus never had to repent because He was without sin, Man does need and have to repent." anon

Are you saying that giving up His life to save the sins of His people at Calvary is less than compared to what a man has to do in terms of repentance? I would honestly suggest you take another shot at how you make light of the atonement that Christ bored on Himself that His people may have eternal life.

"He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth." Isaiah 53:7
---christan on 1/6/12


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"you are saying that he is not saved because he was a man. God will save the few who choose to follow His Son." aka

The theology of "free-will" falls flat on its face beacuse you say that "God will save the few who choose to follow His Son." and yet Paul declared to the Christian his very state before the Spirit of God gave him lif,

"And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins" Ephesians 2:1

How does a "dead" man choose to follow Christ? The word that God use is "dead" - meaning NO life in him. And if you can choose, why does God even need to give you His Spirit? Free-will is a muddled theology deserving of death.
---christan on 1/6/12


Rom. 15:8 Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers. Confining His ministry to the nation Israel, announcing Himself as their King. Israel rejected Him, He went back to Glory, revealing through Paul His dispensation of the grace of God. We follow the risen Christ, Head of the Body.

2 Cor. 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we Him no more. If we follow Christ today, we must obey 1 Cor. 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. We follow the Ascended Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery.
---michael_e on 1/6/12


We do what He says to do in His Word. We forgive our enemies like Jesus did. We turn the other cheek like Jesus did. We heal the sick like Jesus did. We cast out demons like Jesus did.

Man has to do more than Jesus did. Jesus never had to repent because He was without sin, Man does need and have to repent.

We are changed from Glory to Glory by the Power of the Holy Spriit that works within us. Know ye not ye are a temple of the Holy Spirit?
---anon on 1/6/12


//Jesus simply declared to the rich young after He commanded the man to follow him, and he couldn't// christan

no...jesus declared that the rich, young man to sell his possessions and give to the poor, then follow him. not so simple for the young man since he had great possessions and he did not want to part with them. he chose them rather than following Jesus.

of course, salvation is only of God.

you are saying that he is not saved because he was a man. God will save the few who choose to follow His Son.

jesus offered us the chance to come into the light or stay in darkness. just because we choose the light over darkness does not mean we created (or predestined) the light.
---aka on 1/6/12


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Outside of the will of God through election, regeneration (born of the Spirit) and justification by faith, NO ONE can follow Jesus. One may think that by "their free-will" they can follow Christ but Scripture goes against such a false and deceptive teaching.

Jesus simply declared to the rich young after He commanded the man to follow him, and he couldn't, it was written,

"When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." Matthew 19:25,26

So you see, salvation is "impossible" for man unless God works His 100% Almighty grace on the sinner.
---christan on 1/5/12


Jesus already told us how:

"Take up your cross and follow Me"

The cross is an image of suffering. Peter told us that Christ left us an example - suffering
---James_L on 1/5/12


A timeless and foolproof guide for following Jesus may be found in Matthew 25:31-46.
---John.usa on 1/5/12


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