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Is Jesus Omnipresent

'Spiritually' Jesus is God and God is Spirit but does Jesus meet the 'actual' qualifications such as omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient to be part of the Trinity of God?
Same question about the Holy Spirit? Why or why not?

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"Standing at the right hand of God..." Warwick

1. Does God stand at the right hand of himself?

2. Stephen did not see Jesus at the right hand of 'one person of the Godhead'. If God is a Trinity was Jesus standing at the right hand of the Trinity? (Now 4 persons?)

"The 'right hand/sitting or standing at the right hand' signify power and authority. Stephen... was saying he saw Jesus in heaven revealed as God Almighty." Warwick

3. Can Jesus' disciples become 'powerful' Gods too?

"It's not up to me to grant you a seat at my right hand or at my left." [Father/prepared] Matt 20:23 ESV

4. If equal, why can't Jesus grant this?
---scott on 1/18/12


"You deceitfully use quotations which describe Jesus on earth where He willingly lowered Himself to be a servant." Warwick

So...Jesus was "on earth" when the Apostle Paul wrote (in 56ce):

"The Son himself will also be subjected to him [God] who put all things in subjection under him..." 1 Cor 15:28 ESV

Explain how citing Paul's words, written 23 years after Jesus died and was raised to heaven, about a future event from the time of Paul's writing is "deceitful".

And hop to it...I don't have all day.
---scott on 1/18/12


Warwick, you as a trinitarian deny Jesus' resurrection because you cannot see it was Jesus' resurrection Thomas doubted- your reasoning: 'Thomas didn't doubt what hadn't occurred'.

However, the fact remains- Thomas doubted Jesus had been raised back to life by his Father, Jehovah God. Being convinced of his Lord's resurrection, and the power God has over death, Thomas remarked, 'my Lord and my God'. Jesus didn't rebuke Thomas because he knew Thomas also had Jehovah in mind. Afterall, Thomas knew Jesus was 'God's Son'.

I've been waiting for you to explain why you apostate trinitarians insert the words 'me' at John 14:14 and the word 'name' twice at John 17:11. Who changed these verses? God or apostate fundamentalist trinitarians?
---David8318 on 1/18/12


But David Jesus is directly addressed as 'ho Theos' in John 20:28 'Thomas answered him, My Lord and my God!"' And Jesus accepted this without any hint that it was not so. Here with the definite article Thomas the doubter is calling Jesus 'The God.' It is particularly interesting that it was a doubter who said this. But hypocritically you will not accept this because your errant WTS masters forbid you do so.

BTW I am still waiting for an answer regarding the NWT 1961 edition commanding we "worship" Jesus while the 1971 version has downgraded worship to "obeisance." Who got it wrong God or the WTS? As Scott says-Take your t-i-m-e.
---Warwick on 1/18/12


Scott you know the terms 'right hand/sitting or standing at the right hand' signify power and authority. Stephen said "Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God" Acts 7:56-his hearers stoned him to death because he was saying he saw Jesus in heaven revealed as God Almighty.

That 'God the Son' is not in Scripture is irrelevant as neither are theocracy and Jehovah. Do you say we should not use these words?

BTW you deceitfully use quotations which describe Jesus on earth where He willingly lowered Himself to be a servant. Your ducking and weaving does not alter that fact that God the Son is Creator, Redeemer, Saviour, and the Alpha and the Omega, titles reserved for God Almighty.
---Warwick on 1/18/12




Micha9344 has played this game of twisting the Greek at 1Cor.10:4 before.

'If we chose, rather, to translate 1Cor 10:4 by NWT John 1:1 standards, we would get: and the Christ was a rock'- Micha9344.

No, because NWT recognise (unlike micha9344) the definite article at 1Cor.10:4, 'ho petra'- 'the rock'. NWT and all other translations render this correctly as 'the rock was Christ'.

Micha9344 would prefer John 1:1 to read, 'ho theos en ho logos', Lit, 'the God was the Word'. Then it would be grammatically similar to 1Cor.10:4 because 'theos' with the def.article in relation to 'the Word' would identify it as 'the God'. But it doesn't say this at all!

Thus according to John 1:1, 'ho logos' is not 'ho theos'.
---David8318 on 1/18/12


John 17:5 "And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed."- Warwick

John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father, and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?


Amen
---JackB on 1/18/12


Micha9344- 1Cor.10:4 and John 1:1 are not 'grammatically the same'.

You are being economical with the truth. You claim 1Cor.10:4 says, 'de petras en ho Xristos'. WRONG! It says, 'ho petra de en ho xristos'. You insidiously omit the definite article 'ho' associated with 'petra'. The def.article purposely associates Christ as 'the rock' in this verse.

This is different to the simple use of 'theos' at John 1:1 which appears without the def.article 'ho'. Thus, 'theos' does not identify 'the Word' as 'the God it is with', but describes the Word as 'a god' or 'godlike'.

You've made this same error before. You persistently and continuously misrepresent the Greek and through your own ignorance of the facts misrepresent the NWT.
---David8318 on 1/18/12


"He who stands at the right hand of God..." Warwick

How does God stand at the right hand of himself?

"The position of absolute power and authority." Warwick

"The Son himself will also be subjected to him [God] who put all things in subjection under him..." 1 Cor 15:28 ESV

"By myself I can do nothing...I seek not to please myself but him who sent me." John 5:30 NIV

"God the Son" Warwick

Again...not in scripture.

"I believe that being called Son of God means that Jesus is equal to...God Almighty." Warwick

"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God..."1 John 1:12
---scott on 1/18/12


Scott, I was referring to US as "sons of God". Meaning that we are heirs.

Christ is the heir of God seeing that He hasbeen given all power in heaven and earth.

However before Jesus was incarnate He was the Word of God. He created all things, just as scripture declares. That makes him God as well.

Its hard to understand how 3 separate manifestations can be ONE, but remember God has seven spirits as told in Revelation. Does that mean we serve 7 gods? No - just one with 7 spirits.

Jesus Christ is God come in the flesh and we beheld him as of the only begotten of the Father.
---JackB on 1/18/12




Scott you attempt to play subtle games of deception but are not yet practiced enough.

John 17:5 "And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed." This is the glory due by right to Jesus Redeemer, Saviour and Creator, He who stands at the right hand of God, in the position of absolute power and authority. This Glory was not conferred before the world existed but what God the Son had from eternity.

John 17:22 refers to the Glory God gave Jesus in His servant status when He willingly subjected Himself and became sin, dying upon the cross for our redemption. Jesus, God the Saviour of Israel.
---Warwick on 1/18/12


Scott I do believe that being called the Son of God means that Jesus is equal to and at one with God Almighty. God's word uses frames of reference common to man and as a man I know that my sons are of the one substance with me, and equal to me.

That God is Creator and Jesus is Creator is just further evidence that He is God. How many Creators do you have?

Now Scott take your t-i-m-e answering this question. You have already. The 1961 NWT commands we "worship" Jesus. However the 1971 version has downgraded "worship" to "obeisance." Now I am sure blind Freddy would figure they both can't be right. Which one is wrong, the 1961 version or the 1971, and who made the error?
---Warwick on 1/17/12


David, (Isaiah 43:10) confirms that Christ is the "I Am"
Jesus declared He was the "I Am" When He said "Before Abraham was, I Am" (John 8:58). And in (Isaiah 43:10) The Lord God makes it clear He is the "I Am"
This "I Am" in (John 8) is the climax of a series of affirmations beginning with "I Am the light of the world" and the Jews accordingly took up stones to stone Him, which was the prescribed penalty for blasphemy. Go ahead and try to stone Him.
"In the Messianic prophecy Christ is spoken of as the Child to be born in Bethlehem "Whose going forth have been from old, "from everlasting" (Micah 5:2).
---Mark_V. on 1/17/12


John 1:1-

1. And the Word was a god
The NT of Our Lord Jesus Christ, translated from Greek by Reijnier Rooleeuw, M.D.), 1694.

2. And the Word was a god
The New Testament in an Improved Version, 1808.

3. The Word was a God
The New Testament In Greek and English, Abner Kneeland, 1822.

4. As a god the Command was
A Literal Translation of The NT, 1863.

5. And a god was the word
(Interlinear translation): GOD (for the Father, Jehovah,) God (for the Son) in the regular English translation. The Emphatic Diaglott, Benjamin Wilson

6. And a God (i.e. a Divine Being) was the Word
Concise Commentary On The Holy Bible, Robert Young, c. 1885.
---scott on 1/17/12


"Sons of God, Scott"- JackB

Absolutely agree. Careful though...at least one poster here has tried to argue that Christ, being called "Son of God", means that he is the Almighty God.

You can see the obvious dilemma that your verses present for that line of reasoning.
---scott on 1/17/12


JESUS did share all these qualifications until he gave some of them up to become a man and die as a man for our sins. Then to be physically raised from the dead to act as our High Priest in heaven. The HOLY SPIRIT still shares all of them. It is the HOLY SPIRIT as the Comfortor who has to be a person like JESUS who lives in those who are Born Again. For only the Born Again will enter into the Kingdom of GOD and live in the New Earth. As JESUS says in John 3.
---Samuel on 1/17/12


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If Jesus is the Almighty God and he shares his glory with his disciples are they also God?
---scott on 1/17/12


Sons of God, Scott. Heir to the very things of God. Just not his authority over all things.

1 John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name

Gal 4:6,7
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ

Its only because we have HIS Spirit living in us. Without Christ, we are nothing.
---JackB on 1/17/12


That should be John 1:12. My bad :P
---JackB on 1/17/12


"The Lord will not share His Glory with anyone else, but shares it with the Lord Jesus because Jesus is not "another" but God the Son." Warwick

Besides the fact that the term "God the Son" is not in the Bible...

The Lord Jesus said: "The glory that you have given me I have given to them [his disciples], that they may be one even as we are one." John 17:22

If Jesus is the Almighty God and he shares his glory with his disciples are they also God?
---scott on 1/17/12


1Cor 10:4 de petras en ho Xristos
Literal: and rock was the Christ
KJV: and that Rock was Christ
NWT: and that rock-mass meant the Christ.
John 1:1 kai Theos en ho Logos
literal: and God was the Word
KJV: and the Word was God
NWT: and the Word was a god
If we used the same grammatical translation as NWT 1Cor 10:4, since they are the same grammatically, we would get: and that God was the Word.
If we chose, rather, to translate 1Cor 10:4 by NWT John 1:1 standards, we would get: and the Christ was a rock... this destroys the meaning of the verse in its context.
Self explanatory, even by JW standards, yet JW's will deny this even from their own "scholars".
---micha9344 on 1/17/12


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Warwick's argument over 'God' at Isaiah 43:10 and 'a god' at John 1:1 is a non-issue, and a weak agument.

In part, Isaiah 43:10 (KJV) says, 'Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD (YHWH appears here in original texts)... before me there was no God formed , neither shall there be after me.' Of course, there is no 'God' apart from Jehovah-YHWH.

Paul said there are 'many gods... but only one God the Father'- 1 Cor.8:5,6. Warwick will need time to spot the difference.

The correct non-trinitarian rendering of John 1:1 only has one 'God'. Warwick's polytheist indoctrination however has him beliving there are 2 'God's' at John 1:1- the Word not only is 'with God' but also 'was God', contradicting Isaiah 43:10!
---David8318 on 1/17/12


"A false delemma for you guys." Mark_V

You sound somewhat like a child whining "I know you are but what am I?"

'False Dilemma'...look it up.
---scott on 1/17/12


Scott, you say,

"This is called a "False Dilemma"

A false delemma for you guys. You would have to do alot of dancing to over turn God's Word to fit you believes.
"Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: "for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit" (Matt. 1:20). Puts a damper on your believes. " The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee: "wherefore also the Holy thing which is begotten shall be called the Son of God" (Luke 1:35). Clearly to anyone who reads, know that He who is going to be born is Holy. His nature is not only human but Holy of Divine nature.
---Mark_V. on 1/17/12


Isaiah 40:28 "The LORD is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth."

42:5 "Thus says God, the LORD, who created the heavens and stretched them out, who spread out the earth and what comes from it,..."

44:24 "I am the LORD, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself,"

Colossians 1:16 "For by him (Jesus) all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities, all things were created by him and for him." The Lord God is The Creator and the Lord Jesus is The Creator. Therefore by simple deduction they are one and the same Almighty God.
---Warwick on 1/17/12


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David, Isaiah 43:10: God says there was no god formed before or after Him, the one God. However your Bible has John 1:1 saying that Jesus, the Word is "a god." And you say Jesus is a created being. How can God say there was no god formed before or after Him if you are correct? How do you answer this obvious contradiction?
---Warwick on 1/17/12


In Isaiah 48:11 the Lord says "My glory I will not give to another." However in John 17:5 Jesus says "And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed."

The Lord will not share His Glory with anyone else, but shares it with the Lord Jesus because Jesus is not "another" but God the Son.
---Warwick on 1/16/12


Warwick claims Jesus and Jehovah are 'one' because both are described as 'saviors'- Jehovah at Isaiah 43, and Jesus Acts 4:12. However, Jehovah often raised up 'saviors' on behalf of his people.

'And saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau'- Obadiah 21.

'And the LORD gave Israel a saviour, so that they went out from under the hand of the Syrians'- 2 Kings 13:5. (Other eg- Neh.9:27, Is.19:20)

However, Christ was the only one used by God for the salvation of mankind. In Acts 5:30-32 (AV) the apostles said: 'The God of our fathers raised up Jesus... Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.'
---David8318 on 1/16/12


"You do not believe that God is One God in three Persons." Mark_V

Because the Bible makes no such statement or assertion...anywhere.

"If Jesus is not of the Holy Spirit, then He must be of man." Mark_V

This is called a "False Dilemma"

"All three Persons are the Godhead." Mark_V

Another assertion never made by an inspired bible writer.

"I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of Him that sent Me" The Father send the Son from Heaven, and nothing you say can change that." Mark_V

What makes you think that I don't believe the Son was sent by his Father from heaven to do the Father's will? John 3:16
---scott on 1/16/12


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Scott, I know you do not believe that God is One God in three Persons. That is obvious that is why your religion is called a cult. If Jesus is not of the Holy Spirit, then He must be of man. But you are wrong. The Holy Spirit is of God, and Jesus is of God. All three Persons are the Godhead.
"He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speakth of the earth: He that comes from heaven is above all" Christ Himself said: "For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of Him that sent Me" The Father send the Son from Heaven, and nothing you say can change that.
---Mark_V. on 1/16/12


Scott, chapters 43 to 45 of Isaiah repeatedly make it perfectly clear there is but one God who is both the Creator and the Saviour. It is God alone who offers us "everlasting salvation." However Acts 4:12 says salvation is found only in Jesus. Is Paul contradicting Isaiah or is it rather that they are one and the same God. Yes! This fits with the flow of Scripture but your ideas have Scripture opposing itself.

Isaiah says the one God is the maker of all things (44:24) while Colossians 1:16 says Jesus is Creator of everything. Who got it wrong?

BTW 43:10 says there was no god formed before or after the one God. That directly contradicts your idea that Jesus is "a god" a created being.
---Warwick on 1/15/12


"You do know what we claim. That the Godhead is made up of three Persons. Father, Son and Holy Spirit." Mark_V

Oh I know what you claim. Show me one verse in God's word that makes a similar claim.

"1 Cor. 8:5 affirms a powerful and clear affirmation of the essential equilty of God." Mark_V

Really?

"Indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords" yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live, and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live."
---scott on 1/14/12


"In the OT, the word Lord is YHWH or Elohim." Mark_Eaton

Not true. The Hebrew word for Lord is Adon or Adonai, etc.

Elohim is the Hebrew word for God (El).

YHWH, or the Tetragrammaton, is the personal name for God. It appears almost 7,000 times in the Hebrew text or OT.
---scott on 1/14/12


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Scott, you do know what we claim. That the Godhead is made up of three Persons. Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The passage in (1 Cor. 8:5) only affirms a powerful and clear affirmation of the essential equilty of God the Father as One Person and God the Son as another Person (Eph. 4:4-6). And in (2 Cor. 11:31) Paul affirms that the Father is the Father of the Son, and that we claim. Attacking God's humanity, you attack God.
You need to belief in a Truine God, since it is written all through Scripture. If you have another god, you are like the muslims, Mormons and Jehovah witnesses. Christ in His humanity had two natures. One of God, and one of man. The doctrine of the true humanity of Christ has always been a part of Orthodox Christian faith.
---Mark_V. on 1/13/12


Chria " When the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the SPIRIT OF TRUTH, which proceedeth from the Father, He shall testify of me: And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning." Amen "Whom the world cannot receive, because it sees him not, neither knows him: but you know him, for he dwells with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. [And] The Father and I are one. We know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true, and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life."
---Josef on 1/12/12


Unanswered by Mark_V-
---scott on 1/12/12

1. I do not believe that belief in the word trinity is required for salvation. I do think you must believe that Jesus is Lord.

2. Why is this so hard to understand? I am a boss but I also have a boss. Jesus is God but he also has a God and Father. I am a father but I also have a father.

3. Jesus is Lord, Phil 2:11. In the NT, the word Lord is kyrios. But in the OT, the word Lord is YHWH or Elohim. The Apostle Paul was teaching us that all people will sooner or later call Jesus God to the glory of God the Father.
---Mark_Eaton on 1/12/12


scott* 2. If Paul said that Jesus has a "God", (Eph 1:3, 2 Cor 11:31) and that God is the "Father", did Paul (under inspiration) teach the Trinity or not?

Yes, he taught about God the Father!

scott* Can God have a God?

No, christians teach there is only one God. Maybe you can give us answer, since you say in Jhn 1 the word is a god, Can God have a God?


---Ruben on 1/12/12


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3. How do you explain that Paul taught the "whole counsel of God" ("All that God wants you to know" NLT) but failed to comment, even once, on what you believe is an "essential" requirement to be considered Christian, belief in the Trinity?
---scott on 1/12/12

How do you explain that Paul taught in 2 Thess 2:15 "Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle. " and even said the Chruch is the pillar and foundation of truth ( 1 tim 3:16. Not once hinting that scripture alone is 'essential' for our christian faith. While at it, what traditions is Paul referring to?
---Ruben on 1/12/12


josef "Jesus Himself bore witness to the truth of Peter's testimony... disciples John 16:30, who used those exact words. And His witness is this, "The Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does" Jhn 5:20 Amen. Read 16:30, went to 16:1,""All this I told you," so went to Chapter 15
Jn 15:15 "I have called you friends, for ALL THINGS that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you."
vs 26,27 "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the SPIRIT OF TRUTH, which proceedeth from the Father, He shall testify of me: And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning."
Jn 14:17, Jn16:13-15.
---chria9396 on 1/12/12


Unanswered by Mark_V-

1. If uninspired men (300 years after the last bible book was written -381ce) stated that belief in a Triune God was necessary for salvation and yet not one inspired bible writer ever even hints at such a requirement...who do you believe?

2. If Paul said that Jesus has a "God", (Eph 1:3, 2 Cor 11:31) and that God is the "Father", did Paul (under inspiration) teach the Trinity or not? Can God have a God?

3. How do you explain that Paul taught the "whole counsel of God" ("All that God wants you to know" NLT) but failed to comment, even once, on what you believe is an "essential" requirement to be considered Christian, belief in the Trinity?
---scott on 1/12/12


If uninspired men, 300 years after the last bible book was written, (381) stated that belief in a Triune God was necessary for salvation and yet not one inspired bible writer ever even hints at such a requirement...who do you believe?
---scott on 1/11/12

And these same uninspired men who in the late 3 and early 4 century collected the books into a bible, without a hint from Jesus or the Apostles. Why do you believe the books are correct but wrong on thier belief in a Triune God?
---Ruben on 1/12/12


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Scott, let me clear things. When I said the whole of Scripture, I meant the whole of Scripture. I cannot write the whole of Scripture to you. And even if I did show you where Christ is referred to Elohim, Jehovah, as Adonai, as the Creator of all things, the theophanies of Christ, none would be any good to you, because you do not believe. How can you believe without faith? It's impossible. I have no power to make you believe, you have to be born again of the Spirit with the gift of faith. And that work is by the Holy Spirit in whom you also don't believe is God. Because you do not have that faith. You have made that choice, to speak against the divine deity of Christ. That's why you are here answering as it was foreordained you would.
---Mark_V. on 1/12/12


Mark_V,
I didn't think you could answer the simple question(s).

You blindly adhere to a man-made doctrine developed centuries after Christ and the apostles.

You are unable to defend it because there is simply no statement in God's word that describes God as three persons in one...no where. So you're left to a crazy quilt of inference and unscriptural rhetoric, peppered with insults (the clearest evidence of apologetic asthenia).

Here's another question that you will not answer:

If uninspired men, 300 years after the last bible book was written, (381) stated that belief in a Triune God was necessary for salvation and yet not one inspired bible writer ever even hints at such a requirement...who do you believe?
---scott on 1/11/12


Scott, I'm not insulting you. You are a cult member, who doesn't believe that God came in the flesh. Which is spoken all through history. Who appeared as the Angel of the Lord, and who came incarnate as a man, to die for your sins in the flesh, and you do not believe this Truths, so you have to be a member of a cult for you cannot be called a Christian at all. And no matter how much Scripture is given to you, you will reject it all day long. So there is no reason for anyone to try to reason with you. You are here for a purpose, to strip Jesus Christ of His deity. The only Person that can save you. And nothing is going to stop you. You were predestined to do that.
---Mark_V. on 1/11/12


"joseph,Your answer cancels itself out.You gave a yes and no answer.You are mixing the 'spiritual' with the 'actual'.The OP concerns the 'actual'." Earl on 1/8/12
Earl, actually, I answered the question in the only way that it can be answered. What my answer did was separate the spiritual from the physical. Spiritually Jesus is omnipresent by His own word. Mat. 18:20 Physically He is not. Therefore a yes and no answer, as concerning omnipresence, is the only correct one in terms of "actuals". Which is fully defined as "existing in act or fact, real, of or pertaining to that which is material and existing now."
---joseph on 1/10/12


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"-The Son would have to be as powerful, knowledgeable, and able as the Father to do the same things the Father does." Exactly.
For it is the Father that works, in His fulness, through Him. Jesus is the Fathers Arm, as The tangible manifestation of His Power, Strength, and Ability. He is the One foreshadowed in "I will redeem you with a stretched out Arm," Exd 6:6 "Behold, the Lord GOD shall come with a strong hand, And His Arm shall rule for Him, He will feed His flock like a shepherd, He will gather the lambs with His Arm," Isa. 40:10,11 "My righteousness is near, My salvation has gone forth,.. And on My Arm they will trust," Isa.51:5 Naturally, The arm does only what the mind instructs.
---joseph on 1/10/12


Col 2:9 For in [Jesus Christ] dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead BODILY.
In the likeness of man, Jesus was unchanged and was separate neither from his nature as God nor his divine attributes as Paul teaches 1 Tim 3:16: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
The King James Bible is correct when it says that Jesus, being in the form of God, merely made himself of no reputation (Phil 2:6-8).
---michael_e on 1/9/12


The noun omnipresence nor the adjective omnipresent are found in script.the Bible presupposes God's presence everywhere.Omnopresence holds that "Everything is equally present to God and under His power and authority(Ps 139, Acts 17:28.He is exempt from the limitations of space.He is transcendent to the the world and immanent.(Ps139, Acts 15:18). Is 48:1 speaks to His Omniscience: Gen.17:1, & Mk.10:27. Isa.9:6-7 speaks of Jesus as Almighty God. The NT reveals the HS:a person and Deity:the Spirit of God and Christ (Rom.8:9)and proceeds eternally fron the Father(Jn15:26,Gal4:6).Scripture places the HS on par with the Father and the Son:(Mt.28:19, 1Pet.1:2.God bless you. Jim
---Jaiseery_Arjoonsingh on 1/9/12


MarkEaton, whether Jesus knows the 'day or hour' now is pure conjecture and assumption and requires special pleading on the part of trinitarians.

What is clear as you rightly point out is that when Jesus was on earth, he was not omniscient.

However, we are supposed to believe that Jesus when on earth was 'God incarnate', God in the flesh, the 'all knowing all seeing' creator. Well, that of course is not true ('incarnate' is not used in the Bible). Jesus did not know many things that only the Father knew. So when Jesus was on earth- he was not 'God' because he was not omniscient.

In fact at Matt.24:36, Jesus puts himself in the same category as 'the angels' who also did not know 'the day or hour' of the Great Tribulation.
---David8318 on 1/9/12


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John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
-The Son would have to be as powerful, knowledgeable, and able as the Father to do the same things the Father does.
Phi 2:7-28 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
-He willingly humbled himself to become our Sacrifice.
---micha9344 on 1/9/12


"The whole of Scripture..." Mark_V (2)

Paul said:

"To us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things..." 1 Cor 8:5, 6 RSV

In his letter to the Ephesians Paul said "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ..." (Eph 1:3) And in his 2nd letter to the Corinthians he speaks of the "God and Father of the Lord Jesus." (2 Cor 11:31).

Question:

If Paul said that Jesus has a "God", and that God is the "Father", did Paul (under inspiration) teach the Trinity or not? Can God have a God? If so, pick up your sword and explain.
---scott on 1/9/12


"The whole of Scripture teaches the "Trinity." Mark_V

Mark_V, your insults aside, the Apostle Paul said "For I shrank not from declaring unto you the whole counsel of God." Acts 20:27 ASV

Question:

How do you explain that Paul taught the "whole counsel of God" ("All that God wants you to know" NLT) but failed to comment, even once, on what you believe is an "essential" requirement to be considered Christian, belief in a multi-personal God?

And yes...take your time.
---scott on 1/9/12


Scott, the whole of Scripture teaches the "Trinity." Of course you do not understand it since you are from a cult. How could you possibly understand it? The very reason you should never call yourself a Christian. Who do you say that He is? And you have given your answer. You must be a Mormon or a Jehovah Witness. You don't believe in the Word of God, that the Word became flesh, yet you believe in some prophet who was a sinner. Out of context you say, 'believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved, and your family, but even the devil believes. No, what it takes is faith. And you just don't have it. No matter how much of the Word of God is given to you, you reject Him who is the Word of Truth.
---Mark_V. on 1/9/12


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Markv,You are correct,I am not a christian but a believer and openly support the Trinity concept and with evidence .
joseph,Your answer cancels itself out.You gave a yes and no answer.You are mixing the 'spiritual' with the 'actual'.The OP concerns the 'actual'.
Throughout biblical history John was the only one who actually understood the Trinity.Others may have but in the face of monoethism and translators they remained silent or their work was retanslated causing confusion.
John provided us with 3 verses among many others that have tremendous value supporting and supplying us with a limited,partial understanding the Trinity.Within them they supply us with the groundwork and evidence of the God Trinity.
---earl on 1/8/12


"[The Trinity] is one of the most important essentials of the Christian faith." Mark_V

What scripture says anything like this?

Certainly if the Trinity is an "essential" part of "Christian faith", (like belief in Christ's sacrificial death for mankind and his subsequent resurrection to heaven...all explained...yes taught by Christ and the apostles) we would expect to find at least one verse that refers to a Trinity or multi-personal God.

This became a declaration of faith, not under divine inspiration as recorded in God's word the bible, but in 381ce by uninspired men.

"Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved--you and your household." Acts 16:31
---scott on 1/8/12


Earl, Jesus is "the trinity of God", as The Only exact image, or Tangible Divine expression, of the Mindset-(Spirit), Soul-(Persona, as in His perceived or evident personality), and Body-(Corporality of The essence), of the One, Invisible, Supreme, Spiritual, Deity, that is Our Father.
As concerning His being "omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient" as the embodiment of the eternal ethereal essence of Father, yes. As an embodied being, no. He can not be physically, in all places simultaneously, therefore is not, as such, omnipresent. The Holy Spirit is simply The Direct Divine Inspiration and insight of The Father, set apart for the enlightenment, and empowerment of man from within, through His indwelling presence.
---joseph on 1/8/12


Earl, you must not be a Christain because all Christians believe in the Trinity. It is one of the most important essentials of the Christian faith.
You say that because the Holy Spirit did not indwell everyone then He is not omnipresent. That is not true at all. He can indwell anyone or not indwell, His actions through history tells us of His ministry through the ages. In the Old Testament He indwelled a few, not all believers, until Pentacost did His ministry change. He was now going to indwell every believer. That does not mean He is not omnipresent. "Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from your presence?" Psa. 139:7). No one can hide from the presence of God the Spirit or the Spirit of God.
---Mark_V. on 1/8/12


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Josef, thank you for your answers and I agree with your comments and wanted to add to Mark E, answers. Jesus while on earth, in His humanity, He was just like us in the flesh, but the difference was that He came from God, and we didn't, He was sinless, and we are not, And most important of all, He is eternal and we are not. He has resurrected already we have not. In His humanity, He was not Omnipresent, He could only be in one place at a time. That is why He had to go away, so that He could sent the Comforter who would indwell all believers. In His deity He was God,
"Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife, "for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit" (Matt.1:20).
---Mark_V. on 1/8/12


"Jesus Omniscience:seen throughout His time on earth, knowing the thoughts/hearts of those around Him, from Pharisees to disciples, to the Fathers will, to what was/is to come. Peters testimony: John 21:17 "...Lord, thou knowest all things,"--chria9396 on 1/7/12 Amen
Jesus Himself bore witness to the truth of Peter's testimony. " As well as the testimony of the disciples in John 16:30, who used those exact words. And His witness is this, "The Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does" Jhn 5:20
---josef on 1/7/12


lee,if the holy spirit as you say did not indwell all believers then the holy spirit does not qualify as omnipresent.
The obvious is that there are 3 who bare witness and the 3 are ONE.Therefore all three must be omnipresent.Tradition claims the holy spirit is one of the 3 but but does not qualify from your reply and Jesus once replied to a question saying that only his Father knows therefore he is not all knowing,not omnipotent because Jesus said he can not do anything by himself if it were not for his Father.
The Godhead concept of the trinity is traditionally known as God,Jesus as the son and holy spirit.
Two of the 3 do not qualify at this point.
Then who 'in the actual sense'fills the Trinity ?
---earl on 1/7/12


Jesus Omniscience:seen throughout His time on earth, knowing the thoughts/hearts of those around Him, from Pharisees to disciples, to the Fathers will, to what was/is to come. Peters testimony: John 21:17 "...Lord, thou knowest all things,"
omnipotence seen in miracles and raising Himself Jn 2:19"...Destroy this temple, and in three days I WILL RAISE it up".
Omnipresence: 1 jn 5:6-8
"...For there are three that bear record IN HEAVEN, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness IN EARTH, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."
---chria9396 on 1/7/12


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Earl - the Holy Spirit was active even in Old Testament times, however, did not indwell all believers.

His Spirit was in King Saul but later departed and King David prayed that God would not remove His Spirit from him. Psalm 51:11.

And Moses was an instrument in God's hands to do His will and that would entail the ministry of God's Spirit.
---lee1538 on 1/7/12


Jesus the Lord of all is present on the throne of Heaven. And by means of the Holy Spirit, "I am with you always," He says, in Matthew 28:20. But are They everywhere the Father is? I understand They are not. But it is like how the gold in a pot is not where all other gold is, but it is gold.

Where our attention is may be what we might need to be more concerned about.
---Bill_willa6989 on 1/7/12


Paul spoke about the holy spirit and referenced the fruit of the spirit which is meekness,temperance ,patience etc.but the holy spirit was first to act on the day of pentecost then how did Moses become known as a meek man if the holy spirit came on the scene not long ago ? It would seem that no one could possess meekness,temperance or patience until pentecost because meekness etc. is fruit of the spirit.
---earl on 1/6/12


yes, Christ has all power to be wherever he wants to be in more than the 3 dimensions we comprehend.
---larry on 1/6/12


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I agree Mark- Jesus was not omniscient.
---David8318 on 1/6/12

Well, what about His state now?

Now that Jesus has left Earth and has reinstated the things He emptied to come here, do you think that Jesus is now omniscient?

I actually think Jesus NOW knows when He is to return to the Earth. I believe Jesus did not know the time when He was here on Earth but I am sure that He knows it now.
---Mark_Eaton on 1/6/12


The christian teachers teach the holy spirit was poured out at pentecost.If this is true then the holy spirit would not meet the 'actual'qualification of omnipresent because at pentecost this spirit first began to act.Neither would it be 'actually'omnipotent if poured out at pentecost because it is taught there is nothing greater than the holy spirit yet spirit of some origin was extremely influential in many people prior to pentecost.
This post does not involve the spiritual concepts of spirit ,only the actuals,meaning that spirits have form and forms have identity that have personality.
I restate the question.Does Jesus have the 'actual'qualifications stated in the OP as "God the Son" same for "God the Spirit".
---earl on 1/6/12


"Each Person of the Trinity subsists or exists under the pure essence of deity." Mark_V

Chapter and verse please.

"The three Persons in the Godhead have all the attributes of deity." Mark_V

Chapter and verse please.
---scott on 1/6/12


Mark Eaton- thank you for pointing out Phil.2:5-7.

You state, "Ever ask the question, what did Jesus "empty" before He came to Earth? Perhaps knowledge?"

I agree Mark- Jesus was not omniscient.
---David8318 on 1/6/12


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Jesus did not know details that only the Father knew. Yet we are supposed to believe that Jesus was 'God incarnate' on earth. Did God when he 'incarnated' himself forget to bring something along?
---David8318 on 1/6/12

Did you forget to read this passage?

Phil 2:5-7 "Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men"

Ever ask the question, what did Jesus "empty" before He came to Earth?

Perhaps knowledge?
---Mark_Eaton on 1/6/12


Jesus 'omniscient'?

'No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father'- Matthew 24:36 (NIV).

'...for the Father is greater than I'- John 14:28.

'I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself, he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does'- John 5:19,30.

Jesus did not know details that only the Father knew. Yet we are supposed to believe that Jesus was 'God incarnate' on earth. Did God when he 'incarnated' himself forget to bring something along?

(Watch for trinitarian use of Hellenic, Neo-Platonic philosophy to explain this.)
---David8318 on 1/6/12


Does the dialogue between Jesus and Nathaniel indicate the Jesus was omnipresent since He say Nathaniel while he was under a tree?

John 1:47-48 When Jesus saw Nathanael approaching, he said of him, "Here is a true Israelite, in whom there is nothing false." "How do you know me?" Nathanael asked. Jesus answered, "I saw you while you were still under the fig-tree before Philip called you."
---lee1538 on 1/6/12


"Does Jesus meet the 'actual' qualifications such as Omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient?" ---Earl on 1/5/12
Omnipresent? Lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age. Mat 28:20
Omnipotent? "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." Mat 28:18
omniscient? "Jesus, knowing their thoughts, said, "Why do you think evil in your hearts?" Mat 9:4
""Now we are sure that You know all things, and have no need that anyone should question You. By this we believe that You came forth from God." John 16:30
" He shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever, the Spirit of truth, I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you."
---Josef on 1/6/12


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I guess he's as omnipotent, etc., as his Father lets him be.
---John.usa on 1/6/12


Earl, each Person of the Trinity subsists or exists "Under the pure essence of deity." Subsistence is a difference within the scope of being, not a separate being or essence. All, the three Persons in the Godhead have all the attributes of deity. There is also a distinction in the work done by each member of the Trinity. The work of salvation is in a sense common to all three Persons of the Trinity. In the manner of activity, there are differing operations assumed by the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Father initiates creation and redemption, the Son redeems the creation, and the Holy Spirit regenerates and sanctifies, applying redemption to believers.
---Mark_V. on 1/6/12


eloy is correct. without debate, Godliness is a mystery filled with paradox.
---aka on 1/6/12


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