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Explain Revelation 22:18-19

Does the warnings in Revelation 22:18-19 pertains to only the Book of Revelation or the entire Holy Bible?

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 ---christan on 1/7/12
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\\1) apocrypha\\

Yes, they are.

And the very fact youm deny them means they are.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/18/12


The following are Unholy writings or NonScripture which are, never have been, nor never will be Holy Scripture, and should not be relied upon for truth nor salvation:

1) apocrypha
2) pseudepigrapha
3) gnostic writings
4) Lost Books of long deceased Bibilical characters
5) Greek and other Myths
6) Fables
7) Fairy Tales
8) Folklore and nonproven legends
9) Nostradamus and all occult and psychic literature
10) cult leader writings
11) writings from NonJudeo-Christianity
12) dictionaries, encyclopedias, lexicons, concordances and reference guides
13) santy clauses, kris kringles, saint nicholases, reindeers and rudolphs, easter bunnies, and tooth fairy stories
14) all scholarly textbooks
---Eloy on 1/17/12


Chris, Amen, whenever a person changes any one of God's Hebrew or Greek words in any book of the Holy Bible from Genesis on through Revelation, they are also guilty of corrupting God's Holy Bible. There are so-called new fandangle bibles on the market today that print that Jesus is "a" god, rather than "The One God", and some remove all the recorded miracles that Jesus did, and some remove his Godhood and make him into a sinner man, and so on and so on. I personally will not listen to any sinner whom reads from any Unholy bibles that are written after the 1611 KJV Holy Bible, and I prefer the 1560 Geneva Bible over the KJV, for the words in new unholy bibles written after the 1611 KJV are lies and not God's Holy words.
---Eloy on 1/17/12


"It cannot be referring to the entire Bible, because several books, including the Gospel according to St. John, had no yet been written."

Cluny, once again I ask you, if you are so sure as to what you are saying - why don't you enlighten us on which books should be in the right order according to you?

For me, there's a reason why the Holy Spirit decided to have Revelations 22:18-19 where it is and I am definitely sure that He warns us about adding on to any of the Words (which you seem to do with flying colors) with reference to the whole Bible, hence the warning in the last chapter of the last book. Makes sense doesn't it? Unless you're still trying to justify the Apocrypha and what other pagan stuff.
---christan on 1/17/12


One must remember that many Gnostic Gospels were written before Christ. Many Jews do believe in reincarnation. So it is not surprising to find something of reincarnation in them if it is so. Others believe all are saved and go to God yet those who have been righteous are closest and those who are bad are furthest away and on the edge of the light of God.
The books were written by Jews not Christians.
Some were banned from the Torah because they mention the Son of man. Others because they contradict themselves or others. Whilst they may not be part of the Bible. It does not equally mean everything is a lie.
They need to be read with care.
---chris on 1/17/12




Jack b, how can the warnings be for the Elect if there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ? You tell me. This are not the first such warning (Deut. 4:2: 12:32: Pro. 30:6: Jer. 26:2). This warnings against altering the biblical text represent the close of the N.T. canon. Anyone who tampers with the truth by attempting to falsify, mitigated, alter, or misinterpret it will incur the judgments described in these verses. The Elect do not falsify, mitigate, alter or misinterpret the Bible. Only the non-elect do. Get it through you head that believers are not condemn. The warnings I was talking about were to make you a better Christian here on earth, that is why we need to carry our Cross everyday.
---Mark_V. on 1/17/12


[3] Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
Doesn't John answer that very question in verse 3?
---chris on 1/16/12


Eloy, youm're in no position to reject Enochian writings and Apocrypha when youm think that Enoch wrote the Torah, and youm revere the Geneva Bible, which contained it.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/16/12


Christ and Christian, A big A-men.
Hebrew Old Testament: Beginning, Names, Called, Isolation, Words, Yehoshua, Sophtim, I Samuel, II Samuel, I Melechim, II Melechim, Yeshayahu, Yirmiyahu, Yechezkiel, Hoshea, Yoel, Amos, Obadiah, Yonah, Michah, Nachum, Habakkuk, Xephaniah, Heggai, Zechariah, Malachi, Praises, Proverbs, Iyob, Song of Songs, Ruth, Lamentations, Kohelet, Esther, Danyal, Ezra, Nechemiah, I Chronicles, II Chronicles:
Greek New Testament: Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, Romans, I Corinthians, II Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, I Thessalonians, II Thessalonians, I Timothy, II Timothy, Titus, Philemon, Hebrews, James, I Peter, II Peter, I John, II John, III John, Jude, Revelation.
---Eloy on 1/16/12


Christian,

Let's take a closer look at Hebrews 11:35:

1) Women recevided their dead by resurrection.

2) Some are tortured, refusing to accept release, that they might rise again to a must better life.

We know that Paul refers to OT verses though out Chapter 11 in Hebrews. v35 you can find in your Protestant Old Testament women receiving back their dead by resurrection in places like 1 kings 17 and 2 Kings 4, however you will not find from Genesis to Malachi someone being tortured and refusing to accept release for the sake of a better resurrection. If the fist part of Hebrews is unquestionably referring to scripture, why would the second not be? But it is, you are just missing that book: 2nd Maccabees chapter 7:)
---Ruben on 1/16/12




\\Funny, you have the audacity to threaten me with such a bold statement when you do not even belief in the warnings by John in Revelation 22:18-19 to be a warning about every Scripture written in the Holy Bible.\\

Wrong again.

Read the WHOLE verse, and you will see that in context, it is simply referring to the Apocalypse itself.

It cannot be referring to the entire Bible, because several books, including the Gospel according to St. John, had no yet been written.

So you fall under the warning of "adding to the book of this prophecy" because you add to the meaning of the verse.

Glory o Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/16/12


"It's a big warning to those who do not hold to the COMPLETE Bible--people like you, christan."

Funny, you have the audacity to threaten me with such a bold statement when you do not even belief in the warnings by John in Revelation 22:18-19 to be a warning about every Scripture written in the Holy Bible.

I have a few versions of the Holy Bible and they all seem to only have sixty-six books in them. Does it mean I am going to hell for holding on to these Holy Bibles and not yours?

According to the Scriptures, a reprobate is predestined to hell because God never loved and chose the him/her in His Son Jesus Christ before the foundations of the world. Do you have that in your Apocrypha?
---christan on 1/16/12


There are several gospels outside the Bible. Whilst I have not read all of them. The ones I have read tend to contradict either the Bible or themselves in places. That does not mean there are parts that are not true, just something brings those gospels into question.
The illuminaries in Enoch are part of the very things that were forbidden men which the 'fallen angels' gave if I am correct. So it seems strange they are so deeply gone into in the book of Enoch.
In Adam and Eve 2 Enoch is with his father until his death and goes onto lead at 800 years old. Which goes against Genesis, if I read correctly, having worked it out.
These sort of things raise questions
---chris on 1/16/12


\\ They are not found in Hebrew, and are rejected by Judaism.\\

Wrong again, as in everything else youm say.

The books called "Apocrypha" were found in Hebrew among the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Oddly enough, Esther (from which Jesus never quoted) was not.

Now what, Eloy?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/16/12


The apocrypha is NonInspired, and not of the Hebrew TaNaKh (Torah, Neviim and Ketuvim: Law, Prophets and Writings). They are not found in Hebrew, and are rejected by Judaism. And upon study and comparing the apocrypha with the holy scripture, I also reject them, for they clearly contradict the dictations or inspirations that have already been given by God. For the apocrypha contain the lies and antiChrist heresies of reincarnation, of praying for the dead, of dead saints interceding for the living, and of atoning for ones sins by paying alms, et cetera and et cetera, all these unholy writings are evident lies, and none from God.
---Eloy on 1/16/12


It's a big warning to those who do not hold to the COMPLETE Bible--people like you, christan.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/15/12


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Jude
1:14 About these also Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying,
"Behold, the Lord came with ten thousands of his holy ones,
1:15 to execute judgment on all,
and to convict all the ungodly of all their works of ungodliness
which they have done in an ungodly way,
and of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against him."
---chris on 1/14/12


The warnings God gives is to sanctify us to be the Christians God wants us to be, and will be.--MarkV

Really?

"if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part OUT of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."

Is this a warning to Christians also?
---JackB on 1/14/12


\\Like I say before, God knows how to protect His Truth and lead His people to them. And if the Apocrypha were His Word, wouldn't it be in all the Holy Bible versions?
---christan on 1/13/12\\

It is in all real whole Bibles.

Obviously, you have a Bible with a great big hole in it.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/14/12


Jude 1:14-15
"And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him."

Directly quotes 1 Enoch 1:9 (sometimes numbered 2:1)
"And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of [His] holy ones to execute judgement upon all, and to destroy [all] the ungodly: and to convict all flesh of all the works [of their ungodliness] which they have ungodly committed, and of all the hard things which ungodly sinners [have spoken] against Him."
---StrongAxe on 1/14/12


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StrongAxe: You keep rambling on about your Apocrypha and still cannot show prove that the verses in Jude were quoted from your Apocrypha?

Ruben: The same comment is applied to you. BTW Hebrews 11:35 speaks about the persecutions of the saints in the OT of which all saints will face persecutions in their Christian walks from everyone. Neither of your reference to Hebrews 11:35 and Matthew 2:16 tells us that these were quoted from your Apocrypha. Gee, I wonder why?

Like I say before, God knows how to protect His Truth and lead His people to them. And if the Apocrypha were His Word, wouldn't it be in all the Holy Bible versions?
---christan on 1/13/12


Other Apocryphal items: Jude 1:9 fighting over the body of Moses, Heb 11:35 Women and sons beaten to death
---Mark_Eaton on 1/13/12

Heb 11:35 is taken form 2 Mac 7:1-42.

Matt. 2:16 - Herod's decree of slaying innocent children was prophesied in Wis. 11:7 -slaying the holy innocents.

And most more:)
---Ruben on 1/13/12


The whole Bible. lit.Gk: "Truly I testify together, everyone hearing these words the prophecy of this Bibliou, If anyone add to these things, God he will add upon that one the plagues that are written in this Biblio: and if anyone take away from the words of Bibliou which this prophecy, God he will take away the share of that one from that one's Blessing, the Life, and out of the city which holy, and of the things which are written in this Biblio." Please Read in this selfsame book, REVELATION 21:8,27 about all them who make lies will go.
---Eloy on 1/13/12


Enoch shouldn't be just dismissed but it needs to be handled carefully.
I got the impression that the early part of Enoch was written by someone different to the parables. The angels that brought forbidden gifts to man in the parables had different names to those in the early part.
It also talks of taking the metals to make weapons away from man. This includes iron. Which was not widely smelted for weapons until around 1200 BC. Would Enoch know that or has someone messed with his original writing, if it was his?
---chris on 1/13/12


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christian:

If the book of Enoch was not inspired, then how do you explain tha Jude (whom we DO consider inspired) quoted from that book authoritatively, word for word? He quoted a passage about something that occurred before the flood - something that was not written in the Old Testament, and could not have been passed down even by oral tradition either. So how did the author of Enoch know about it?

Either he was inspired (contradicting the idea that Enoch an uninspired book), or Jude made a mistake (contradicting the idea that Jude is inspired). So which is it, or can you find another explanation for this?
---StrongAxe on 1/13/12


so why don't you shut my mouth and show us Scriptures where Christ quoted from the Apocrypha? I'll be glad to listen and admit my ignorance.
---christan on 1/12/12

I think you just admitted it.

The Scriptural references and quotations proceed the opposite direction. Jesus is the Word, John 1:1. Jesus does not need to quote Scripture, He is the Word Himself. When Jesus did refer to a passage within the written Word, it was to inform others of the truth of His own statements. The written Word is for our benefit. God the Father and Jesus know it already because it is Them.

Other Apocryphal items: Jude 1:9 fighting over the body of Moses, Heb 11:35 Women and sons beaten to death
---Mark_Eaton on 1/13/12


Cluny where did this come from?
It's still illegal to print one in the UK without one.
I am English and have KJV without it, as do many.
Not sure where you got that one from.
---chris on 1/13/12


\\Maybe it's causing your rambling about the "old" KJV including the Apocrypha, why don't you give prove? I am talking about the present day KJV (and the many other versions) and if the Apocrypha is not in there,\\

The KJV is still being printed in its complete form with the Apocrypha. Just because you yourself can't find one in the USA doesn't make it the norm. It's still illegal to print one in the UK without one.

I won't have a mutilated KJV in my house.

No standard version of the Bible before he mid 1960's did not have it. That's rather late.

Which "many other versions" accepted as trustworthy lack it? Can you be specific?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/13/12


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JackB, even after God declared,"...the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass, I have purposed it, I will also do it." Isaiah 46:11, "The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will." Proverbs 21:1, and you foolishly persist to mock God's Sovereignty. Oh yes, what you have said has been purposed by Him according to Isaiah and will be held accountable, make no mistake about that.

As Solomon said, "The lips of the righteous feed many: but fools die for want of wisdom." Proverbs 10:21
---christan on 1/13/12


Jack, your assuming people can really change His Word. Those who do, only bring condemnation they were destine to bring to themselves. God's Word lives forever. The warnings God gives is to sanctify us to be the Christians God wants us to be, and will be. God allow us to violate His will, isn't that what the whole Scripture says? God's sovereign will and power is in every detail of life. Even your failures.
"A man's heart deviseth his way, but the Lord directeth his steps" (Pro. 16:9). Man has been difying God from the beginning. Does it change anything? No. The rule of conduct He has given us to work by, is perfectly fulfilled by none of us, His own eternal "councils" are accomplished to their minutes details.
---Mark_V. on 1/13/12


Christan, I think I understand what is bothering you and it seems youre just taking it out on Cluny and 1st Cliff because they have good arguments here.

Please consider this.
Why would God have to warn us NOT to add to or take away from the words of scripture if his absolute sovereignty would never allow it to happen in the first place (as you suggest)?

If God sends a warning to us its because theres a real danger of committing a certain sin - which in this case is altering his holy word.

It seems while God IS sovereign, He doesnt extent that sovereignty to EVERY detail of our lives. He allows us to violate his will. Such as when a man rejects the calling of the Holy Spirit and denies Jesus Christ.
---JackB on 1/13/12


I think this is what is being discussed in part
Jude 1 14-15
Compare this with Enoch 1:9, translated from the Ethiopic (found also in Qumran scroll 4Q204=4QEnochc ar, col I 16-18):[12]
"And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones To execute judgement upon all, And to destroy all the ungodly: And to convict all flesh Of all the works of their ungodliness which they have ungodly committed, And of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."
---chris on 1/13/12


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"Enoch was inspired, and Jude quoted it. Enoch was NOT inspired, yet Jude knew it was correct. Jude erroneously believed the Enoch was correct, making Jude uninspired." StrongAxe

From which part of the Scripture (I'm sure you ain't going to find it unless you use your Apocrypha - which has no part to play in the Holy Bible) or better still, from which garbage truck did you go chasing after to come to all this conclusion of yours. Talk about "erroneous", yours is a definition of that word.

"Jude erroneously"? No saint of God with the presence of the Holy Spirit writes "erroneous" things of the Truth.
---christan on 1/12/12


Mark Eaton: so why don't you shut my mouth and show us Scriptures where Christ quoted from the Apocrypha? I'll be glad to listen and admit my ignorance.

Cluny: The only thing fluid is the excess fluids in your brains. Maybe it's causing your rambling about the "old" KJV including the Apocrypha, why don't you give prove? I am talking about the present day KJV (and the many other versions) and if the Apocrypha is not in there, God be praise. If you believe in the Apocrypha, good for you. Maybe you should be honest and tell everyone why the Apocrypha has been excluded in majority of Bible versions out there instead of insisting that it was in there to begin with.
---christan on 1/12/12


\\My guess is if James had said scripture is perfect and complete lacking nothing, you would had use this verse:)
---Ruben on 1/12/12
\\

And since the NT was still being composed when this passage was written (let alone canonized), were this passage taken literally, we would not have the NT today.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/12/12


Jude knew it was correct even though the book had been changed or modified or something else that did not allow it to be part of scripture. But the part Jude quoted was true.

In the Torah a warning it given about those who wish to teach contrary to what is written. In the wrods of JESUS he condemnned those who taught contrary to the written word of GOD.

Today many put traditions of men above the bible. Martin Luther worked to change this for that church leaders worked to murder him.
---Samuel on 1/12/12


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Mark_V.:

The quote from Jude is word for word from the Book of Enoch. This is not mentioned anywhere else in scripture, despite Eloy's comment that it is from Deutronomy (something similar is said, but much shorter).

The book of Enoch was earlier than Jude, and in circulation when Jude wrote.

One of these must be true.

1) Enoch was inspired, and Jude quoted it.

2) Enoch was NOT inspired, yet Jude knew it was correct.

3) Jude erroneously believed the Enoch was correct, making Jude uninspired.

4) Jude was original - so Enoch's author must have been SIMILARLY inspired to use the same words.

So, which is it?
---StrongAxe on 1/12/12


"ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration of God..." 2 Timothy 3:16, and when Paul declared "ALL", isn't it a given that it means "every word"?
---christan on 1/12/12

Christan, before Paul said all scripture he told Timothy 'and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures' v 15. Which would mean the OT because that would be what Timothy would be aware of. Besides it reads is 'profitable' not sufficient and he did not say only scripture. In James 1:4 it reads "But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing" My guess is if James had said scripture is perfect and complete lacking nothing, you would had use this verse:)
---Ruben on 1/12/12


\\"ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration of God..."\\

AHHHHH---but did you know that what was meant by "scripture" was rather fluid when St. Paul wrote these words.

And you've not explained how the KJV included the Apocrypha in it. What were those 20 Bibles you say does not?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/12/12


That Enoch is mentioned in Jude does not make the Apocrypha reliable either.
---Mark_V. on 1/12/12

What I was posting to was that Christan stated that neither Christ nor the Apostles quoted from the Apocrypha, which is incorrect.

When you make a statement of fact on these blogs, you better be correct or you better be willing to receive correction.

With regard to the validity of the Apocryphal writings, my opinion is the Maccabees are reliable for historical information. The events within the book are confirmed within the writings of Josephus. The reminder of the books are suspect in my mind, including Enoch.
---Mark_Eaton on 1/12/12


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Where in the Bible does it say one has to believe that the Bible contains 66 books to be saved, or that that is required to be able to work out their own salvation with fear and trembling?

These statement of faith issues have their place, but believers would be helping themselves more by spending more time on where Christ is in their life, and what they should be learning from Him---to know Him and to become more Christ-like.

Statements of faith far short of personal relationship with God.

BTW, let me suggest that letting go of preconceived notions and our taught paradigms are challenging to let go of when facts are shown to be otherwise.
---Rod4Him on 1/12/12


"Where in any of the 66 books does it say "Every word (774,776) is God breathed"???" 1st cliff

Finally, the "truth" is out! An unbeliever (like yourself as you have just confessed) goes to hell is because of his unbelief in God's Word, all of it from Genesis to Revelation. Paul simply declared,

"ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration of God..." 2 Timothy 3:16, and when Paul declared "ALL", isn't it a given that it means "every word"? Is counting all you can do that your English is so bad you cannot understand what is "ALL" and "inspiration of God" means? Or is your bible missing these verses?
---christan on 1/12/12


Mark E, I also agree with Christan when he said,

"Because Jude/Peter did not give your "Apocrypha" credit?"

What credit did Jude give to the apocrypha? Even the book of Enoch is not reliable. That Enoch is mentioned in Jude does not make the Apocrypha reliable either. What He prophesied was prophesied was prophesied by others. The source of this information was the Holy Spirit who inspired Jude. The fact that it was recorded in the nonbiblical and pseudepigraphal Book of Enoch had no effect on its accuracy. The passages are saying that angels are the executioners of God at the Second Coming of Christ (Matt. 13:39-41,49,50: 24:29-31: 25:31: 2 Thess. 1:7-10).
---Mark_V. on 1/12/12


I also think with Enoch the copies written late 1st century BC, that are said to follow on from the 1st book 300 BC name different angels as teaching man the angels secrets.
In the 1st book of Enoch it was the fallen angel Azazel who was the principal angel who taught the art of weapons to man. In the 2nd part it is Gadreel who is named for example. Also the age of Enoch when he has his son is 100 years different to that of Genesis in those same sections.
I think those contradictions added to the one previously I mentioned are why it is not in the canon. The books that follow appear to contradict both the 1st book of Enoch and Genesis on certain things.
---chris on 1/10/12


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I do not think Enoch can just be dismissed. I do think it should be read with great care and thought though. That is just my opinion.
---chris on 1/10/12


Is it worth mentioning that the Ethiopian Church, second oldest in the world after Jerusalem, accepts Enoch as Scripture?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/10/12


\\There's a reason why over twenty Holy Bibles versions available out there has Job, Obadiah and Esther and NONE of them has your precious "Apocrypha" books sandwiched between the sixty-six books - which only the RC bible has \\

Wrong again, as in everything else you say about the Apocrypha.

The Bishops' Bible contained it.

The Geneva Bible contained it.

The original KJV contained it. Did you think it did not? It's illegal to print a KJV in England without it.

The ERV of 1881 contained it.

The RSV contained it.

If you Bible doesn't have it, you don't have the whole Holy Bible but a holey Bible with a great big hole in it.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/10/12


Christian, You're like so many on here living in a dream world!
You actually believe that satan was asleep somewhere when scripture was written??
"Oh he better not mess with the bible if he knows what's good for him"...Oh my, more superstition!
First thing one learns in warfare "never under estimate the enemy!"
Where in any of the 66 books does it say "Every word (774,776)is God breathed"???
---1st_cliff on 1/10/12


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Because Jude/Peter did not give your "Apocrypha" credit?
---christan on 1/10/12

But they did. You have never closely read the Book of Jude.

Jude 1:14-15 "It was also about these men that Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied, saying, 'Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have done in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him"

Where is this prophecy of Enoch contained in the Protestant Bible?

Its not. Its in the Book of Enoch.
---Mark_Eaton on 1/10/12


Mark Eaton, statement in error? What error? Because Jude/Peter did not give your "Apocrypha" credit? Reason why it was not mentioned is because the "Apocrypha" were worthless scriptures by the pagans and nothing to do with the Word of God.

You have the audacity to say Jude/Peter should have mentioned the "Apocrypha"? Suck it up as they say in the USA, the "Apocrypha" has nothing to do with the Word of God or it would have been in all the twenty over versions of the Holy Bible.

Do you really think that God does not have power over what is written and compiled in His Word? Maybe your god does not have the power and rely too much on sinful man to protect his truth. Not my Father.
---christan on 1/10/12


\\Even to the extend of the RC proclaiming "Outside of the Church/Catholic Faith, there's no salvation", which is a counterfeit version of what Peter declared in Acts 4:12, \\

I don't know why you're dragging the Roman Catholic Church into this, christan.

I'm Orthodox.

Can you grasp that these are two separate churches?

BTW, the first major English translation NOT to include the Apocrypha was the NASB of the mid-60's. Rather late, isn't it?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/10/12


The book of Enoch is not in the Jewish canon. Though it is in Beta Israel, Ethiopian and Eritrean Orthodox versions.
The oldest copy of the 1st book is around 300BC, the rest towards the latter part of 1st century BC.
Enoch is mentioned several times in the Bible. Including Genesis chapter 5.
Enoch was much loved by God.
I think there are concerns as
one of the books devotes detailed time to astrology, one of the forbidden things which we are told fallen angels gave to man in his oldest book, Enoch 1. Which maybe thought strange and a contradiction.
---chris on 1/10/12


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O please. Notice that not even Jesus nor the apostles quoted anything from the books of "Apocrypha", which was what the Vatican tried to squeezed in to deceive God's people.
---christan on 1/9/12

BTW, this statement is in error.

Jude and 2 Peter both refer to to angels sinning and being chained into pits of darkness. This is nowhere else in Scripture. The passage is actually contained in the Book of Enoch, which is an Apocryphal book and would have been available during the time of Jesus and the Apostles.
---Mark_Eaton on 1/10/12


Cluny, think about this real hard. There's a reason why over twenty Holy Bibles versions available out there has Job, Obadiah and Esther and NONE of them has your precious "Apocrypha" books sandwiched between the sixty-six books - which only the RC bible has and we know that the RCs are one of the false christians known as wolves dressed in sheep clothing's.

Even to the extend of the RC proclaiming "Outside of the Church/Catholic Faith, there's no salvation", which is a counterfeit version of what Peter declared in Acts 4:12, "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Peter specifically talks about Jesus Christ.
---christan on 1/10/12


\\1st cliff, Cluny, be reminded by Jesus Christ that the Word of God is eternal (Matthew 5:18 & John 6:63)\\

Do you cherish the notion that there was a copy of the Bible sitting up in heaven, and the Holy Spirit was waiting for the prophets and apostles to be born so He could dictate it to them, and they could inscribe it by automatic writing?

Wrong again, if you think this.

Nothing is eternal except God Himself. The Son/Logos is the Word of God. John 1 says, "The Word was God." This is NOT a metaphor for saying that Jesus is he perfect embodiment of everything in the Bible.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/10/12


Christan, as I read it, we know that Jesus was not only the speaker here in these passages but we know He was God. "The root and the Offspring of David" Christ is the source (root) of David's life and line of descendants, which establishes His deity. He is also descendant of David (offspring) which establishes His humanity. This phrase gives powerful testimony to Christ as the God-Man (2 Tim. 2:8). He gave to His angels to testify to the things He had spoken to the churches. The 7 churches of Asia Minor who were the book's original recipients (1:11). These warning in (18,19) are not the first warnings, these warning were against altering the biblical text.
---Mark_V. on 1/10/12


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\\Notice that not even Jesus nor the apostles quoted anything from the books of "Apocrypha", which was what the Vatican tried to squeezed in to deceive God's people\\

Wrong again!

ALL the Pre-Reformation Churches, including those that had NOTHING to do with Rome, accept the books called Apocrypha.

The real question is why do SOME (not all) post-Reformation Churches follow teaching of the spiritual children of the very scribes and pharisees Jesus called "fools and blind guides" who rejected Him by rejecting these books that ALL Christians accepted until about 1600?

May I point out that neither Jesus nor the Apostles ever quoted from Job, Obadiah, or Esther?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/9/12


1st cliff, Cluny, be reminded by Jesus Christ that the Word of God is eternal (Matthew 5:18 & John 6:63). The issue is not which books comes first or last.

Real issue is all about Jesus Christ and the salvation He came to bring to His people, which has already been accomplished and now being applied to His elect. If Revelation 22:18-19 to you pertains only to Revelation, then I know you do not take God's warnings seriously, just like A & E.

Moses declared, The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law." Deuteronomy 29:29 - is this only pertaining to Deuteronomy or is it eternal?
---christan on 1/9/12


"Originally the Apocrypha were included!" 1st cliff

O please. Notice that not even Jesus nor the apostles quoted anything from the books of "Apocrypha", which was what the Vatican tried to squeezed in to deceive God's people.

And it was God will who would not have anything to do with these perverted books that they are not in the majority of the Holy Bibles many versions we see today. Only the RCs bible consists of these books.

Btw, spare us the history of the Holy Bible. Share what's important and urgent, and that's repentance to God and believe in the glory of Jesus Christ to whom His people will have eternal life.
---christan on 1/9/12


Christian, Calm down and take a little instruction.
Each scripture as it was written (parchment,document,scroll) was called a "book"
First 5 were called the 5 books of Moses, when lumped together the Pentateuch.
The bible was not bound together 'till recently especially since the Gutenberg Press was invented 15th century!'till after the 1st century they were loosely housed in a box in a synagogue! It was only after many counsels and meetings that they hammered out how many "books" made up the NT!
Originally the Apocrypha were included!
---1st_cliff on 1/9/12


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It only applies to the book of Revelation. Reason being if you read the context where it says, "...heareth the words of the prophecy of this book,..."

It was simply talking about the prophecies given in Revelation.
It is IMPOSSIBLE to add to or take away from the word of God. The word of God is forever settled in heaven.(Psalm 119:89, Isaiah 55:11)
In Deuteronomy 12:32 it's the same principle. It's talking about the instructions given to them at that time.
---Rickey on 1/9/12


Most scholars say that the listing of the books of the Bible in their customary order is NOT the chronological order of their writing. (As if it matters.)

Even YOU admit that much by saying that Revelation was not the last book written.

For example, Job is actually the first book of the Bible written down.

What proof do you have that the Bible DOES give them in chronological order?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/9/12


1st cliff & Cluny, if anyone is ignorant, it's the both of you. The only book that was not written in chronological order is the book of Revelation, and that's because it talks about all that has happened and those that are to come aka prophesies.

Are you to tell me that from Genesis to Malachi, it's not in chronological order? Or the four Gospels (simultaneously) then the book of Acts to the Epistles, are they not in chronological order? Please go get your facts right before you throw stones.

However, that's not my point. My point is the Scripture has already been predestined by God Almighty to go in the order it was presented to us and unless you think otherwise, go write your own "unholy bible".
---christan on 1/9/12


The books of the Bible are not arranged in the chronological order of their composition, but a mere conventional order for convenience.

Jewish and Christian Bibles, for example, do NOT have the same order for the Hebrew writings.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/9/12


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There has always discussion about the order of Revelation and the Bible. It is still a discussion with several people putting their theories across. That is basically it.
Just the same as people discuss whether Revelation has been or is to come. There are good arguments on both sides.
There are several things that are open to discussion, even in Christianity there are many differing views on many things.
Some things in the end come down to personal belief.
---chris on 1/9/12


Christian, You are showing ignorance if you think it was written in chronological order!
---1st_cliff on 1/8/12


\\Cluny & 1st cliff, so according to your "infinite wisdom", the books in the Holy Bible have all been arranged wrongly and is filled with errors?\\

You don't actually think the books of the Bible were written in chronological order, do you?
---Cluny on 1/8/12


The bible was not written in the order of the Catholic or the Protesant bible, however there are translations that are presented in the order in which they were written. I have one in paperback myself.
Terri
---Terri_Hunter on 1/8/12


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this is a general warning contained throughut the various books of the bible.

Deuteronomy 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God [is] pure: he [is] a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
Proverbs 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book


it aplies to all the word of God
---francis on 1/8/12


Cluny & 1st cliff, so according to your "infinite wisdom", the books in the Holy Bible have all been arranged wrongly and is filled with errors? Really? Is this where you really how you want to approach this?

Amazing! All for justifying what you believe is your "truth".
---christan on 1/8/12


I believe it relates to Revelation as given to John after the ascension of Christ.
That this is the one that now holds true. There is a lot of end time prophecy in the Old Testament and gnostic gospel.
Also at the time there was lot of political rebellion and upheaval fermenting. So it was a warning not to change the word or verse to suit situations.
---chris on 1/8/12


Since the John had not written his Gospel yet, it clearly applies ONLY to Revelation.

Even some of the Epistles had not been written by that point.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/7/12


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Christian, What do you think? seeing that the gospel of John, 1st 2nd and 3rd John were all written after Revelation!
---1st_cliff on 1/7/12


Rev. 22:18-19 pertains solely to the Book of Revelation. But, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God..." (2 Tim. 3:16-17). So, anyone who would foolishly dare stand in opposition to (by addition to or deletion from) God's written word (the entire canonized Bible) brings upon them self tormenting damnation, the wrath of God & eternal separation from Him!
---Leon on 1/7/12


"the words of the prophecy of this book"

pretty specific. in addition, since the scriptures that make up the bible was not one book at the time, i might side with the former.

otoh, one can argue that all the prophecy written in the scriptures that make up the bible...as one book...was a prophecy in itself.

nevertheless, i think it is a warning that applies in one way or another to any of God's words. check out Gen. chapter 3.

my question is: what if your addition/subtraction was a result of error and not maliciousness?
---aka on 1/7/12


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