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Father Forgive Them

When Jesus said on the cross, Father forgive them for they know not what they are doing." Were those people who crucified Him forgiven because Jesus asked? Wouldn't they have to repent first in order to be forgiven?

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Y'shua:mediator-between mankind and Creator.[Aleph-Bet]

Matt 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
iota-Hebrew letter [yod]equivalent to the minutest part
Kerais-tittle:not even the minutest part of the law shall perish.(Messiah)

Is 43:10-13
Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
I, even I, am the LORD, and beside me there is No Savior.
Phil 2:6-8{all}
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:


Amen.
---char on 4/19/12


Michael, as I said before, I'm in basic agreement with your views. A didn't say cherry picking was wrong, not if you pick good cherries. Yet, it's still cherry picking. :-)
---Pat.pat on 3/23/12


segmenting = cherry picking??

The Bible speaks of three churches with three different messages.
Wilderness Church, Stephen in Acts 7:38. Ref. Israel following Moses to the Promised Land, under Gods instructions of Law.
The Temple Church ref. Acts 2:44-47. added to at Pentecost, formed by Christ from the remnant of believing Israel. Gods instructions were fulfilling prophecy in the kingdom. Faith that Jesus was the Messiah, water baptism required. Peter, James, and John to sit on 12 thrones in the coming earthly kingdom.
The Church, the BoC ref. by Paul in Col 1:24. Began with Jesus saving Paul out of due time (1 Cor 15:8). The BoC message, a mystery and kept secret "conversation is in heavenly places."
---michael_e on 3/23/12


Isn't 'segmenting' the scriptures just another way of saying cherry picking?
---Pat.pat on 3/23/12


"Study, learn to segment the scriptures, and they will make sense."
---michael_e on 3/21/12

amen to the whole post. that is totally correct. salvation is for the circumcised and uncircumcised: Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

but, only by proper division do we properly apply God's word and do not become cherry-picking Judaizers in effect. without realization of what we are doing, we practice forms of Godliness and not Godliness itself.
---aka on 3/22/12




Michael, just wondered. Your theology and mine are similar to the Concordant folk's. I worked for them 25 years ago.
---Pat.pat on 3/21/12


Pat pat, I'm somewhat familiar with the Concordant Literal New Testament, most of what I hear about it is negative, but I can't personally say.
---michael_e on 3/21/12


Michael, are you familiar with the Concordant Literal New Testament?
---Pat.pat on 3/21/12


the lost dont receive revelation,thats why they are called THE LOST
---tom2 on 3/21/12


give Israel what is theirs, give the BoC what is ours

"rightly dividing the word of truth." means cut straight. If you mix the OT Law, Christs earthly ministry and some of Peters statements with Paul we have confusion! Separate it and cut them straight!
Gen. to Abraham, a period that has nothing to do with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. You separate it. Abraham through the Nation of Israel, the Law and temple worship sits by itself. You cant say, I'll bring a ram for an offering, because thats what the Bible says.

Cut them straight and keep them separated. Paul and his revelation of the mysteries, something won't mix with Christs earthly ministry. Study, learn to segment the scriptures, and they will make sense.
---michael_e on 3/21/12




There are all sorts of theories about what Rightly Dividing means. What's yours?
---Pat.pat on 3/20/12


If you do not read His Word, RIGHTLY DIVIDED all the understanding in the world will do nothing for you.
---michael_e on 3/19/12


Aka, what you say is true, Understanding of what? The word of God. If you do not read His Word, all the understanding in the world will do nothing for you. Understand the Truth of His Word. Seems like many here do not understand. They still want to save themselves. They don't want God to interfer with their salvation, because He cannot infringe in their rights. That is some great understanding. That understanding is not coming from the Holy Spirit. It's coming from their own "free will."
---Mark_V. on 3/19/12


"...people can study all they want and puff themselves up accordingly, but only the spirit brings true understanding."
---aka on 3/19/12


That's it in a nutshell Aka: only God, the Holy Spirit enlightens believers!
---Leon on 3/19/12


Aka, you asked me,
"so, mark, it is your study of the interpretation of the Bible (hermeneutics) and not revelation from the Holy Spirit that dictates."

What the Spirit reveals to me is what He shows me through His Word. The writers of Scripture were inspired by the Holy Spirit to write what He told them to write. The Holy Spirit of God gave all believers the eyes to see, ears to hear, and a heart of persecive His Word. When you have a love for Christ, you will do everything possible to learn about God not man. The Spirit will guide you. That's what walking in the Spirit really is. The more you learn, the more He increases in your life and the less you decrease in the flesh. But you have to have that love for Christ.
---Mark_V. on 3/19/12


Aka, okay, fair enough.
---Pat.pat on 3/19/12


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pat, my apologies. they are both from the same root. Hermes, messenger and interpreter of the gods, is the inspiration of the name Hermeneutics.

"[Hermes] is also considered the inventor of language and speech, an interpreter, ..." aka

sure, we all interpret. i am a german and korean liguist and i can tell you that once you apply a certain theory of interpretation, you will lose the meaning especially if your view is blinded by doctrine or denominationalism.

people can study all they want and puff themselves up accordingly, but only the spirit brings true understanding.
---aka on 3/19/12


I believe Aka is referring to the true (truth) source of accurate Bible interpretation (teaching), that being God, the Comforter (Holy Ghost). (Jn. 14:15-17 & 26 ~ 15:26 ~ 16:7).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it really our place to interpret Scripture? Seems to me that's the problem in a nut shell, i.e., some people are always trying to explain (exegete) the Bible apart from their being indwelt, taught & led by the Holy Spirit. Interestingly, many aren't even born again. Go figure!
---Leon on 3/18/12


Aka, the word "hermeneutic" does not derive from the name of the god Hermes. It derives from the Greek verb meaning "to interpret," hermeneuein. And everyone interprets scripture, even you.
---Pat.pat on 3/18/12


--char on 3/18/12
[Savior of all men],
[specially of those that believe]
Absolutely right, God bless
---michael_e on 3/18/12


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//great hermeneutics. //

so, mark, it is your study of the interpretation of the Bible (hermeneutics) and not revelation from the Holy Spirit that dictates.

isn't it God that teaches and not a man made system that is named after the Greek god Hermes?

Besides being mediator between the gods themselves, and between the gods and humanity, hermes leads souls to the underworld upon death.

He is also considered the inventor of language and speech, an interpreter, a liar, a thief and a trickster.

Sounds like the evil one and not God.

Rom 1:22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man...
---aka on 3/18/12


---michael_e on 3/17/12 Thank you brother.

Jn3(all)
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

1Tim4:9-10This is a faithful saying and worthy of all [acceptation]. For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the [Savior of all men], [specially of those that believe].

[Savior of all men],

[specially of those that believe].

Glory to God and Savior,Son of God,anointed, living, written and spoken Word of God, -
Yshua-Jesus Christ
---char on 3/18/12


MarkV, I'll explain it again.

Rom. 5:8But God commendeth his love toward us,(believers) in that, while we were yet (unbelievers) sinners, Christ died for us."
You don't think Christ would have died for you if you were already a believer, do you? On second thought, reading some of your "interpretations" maybe you do
As for getting an amen from Char, if you would read some of your posts, you would see why.
---michael_e on 3/17/12


Michael e, Paul was speaking to believers, you understand that but refuse to admit it? He was telling them about believers "toward us." him and the believers he was speaking to. He was not speaking to the world or the lost. I see you got an amen from Char, Wow. great hermeneutics. With your interpretations you will get nowhere.
---Mark_V. on 3/17/12


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//Michael e, you are right when you gave ( Romans 5:8).
"Rom. 5:8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."//
No Mark, I didn't forget the rest of the vs. When Christ died, you had not been born yet, of course, when you were born, you were born into sin.
You were still under the bondage of sin, when Christ died.
//The "toward us" in that passage is the believers//
You were not born a believer.
---michel_e on 3/17/12


//2 Cor. 5:15 And that he died for ALL...
---michael_e on 3/16/12//
Blessing brother--

Amen.

2 Cor 5:14-15
For the love of Christ constraineth us, because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Praise God He knows the humble-heart of man that diligently seek Him and every one that name the name of Christ
---char on 3/17/12


Michael e, you are right when you gave ( Romans 5:8).
"Rom. 5:8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."

The "toward us" in that passage is the believers. For he tells "us" on the next verse
"Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath through Him" (Rom. 5:9). We have received the reconciliation. Those who don't will never be saved from the wrath to come. Maybe you forgot to read the rest of the passages.
---Mark_V. on 3/17/12


Char what you said is absolutely Biblically correct.
//This is nice. Many may not repent: however, Praise God the death and resurrection conquered death. Repentance is available to all mankind.//

Rom. 5:8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

2 Cor. 5:15 And that he died for ALL...
---michael_e on 3/16/12


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Char, you said,

" Repentance is available to all mankind."

Char, you misinterpret the Word of God when it comes to repentance. For repentance is not availible to all mankind. All mankind is ask to repent but not all will. God has to convict their hearts in order for them to repent. Without a conviction no one will repent. No one will believe in their hearts by faith, they have sinned against God and are heading to hell already. Scripture tells us God has to grant that they will repent,

"...God may perhaps grant that they will repent and come to know the Truth, and they may escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will." (2 Tim. 2:25,26).
---Mark_V. on 3/16/12


Praise God He is the true teacher.
---char on 3/16/12
Absolutely true, God bless you
---michael_e on 3/16/12


// forgive even if others may not be repented because Jesus said: ...forgive, if you have anything against anyone, so that your Father also who is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses."

Father, forgive me as i forgive.

kind of practical, isn't it?
---aka on 1/11/12//

This is nice. Many may not repent: however, Praise God the death and resurrection conquered death. Repentance is available to all mankind.

This is a good question,
Y'sha being the living Word was fulfilling prophecy.
The Words that Jesus spoke on the cross were prophesied a thousand years prior in Ps 22.
---char on 3/16/12


"Michael, you still have no clue what the gospel is. All you did was post who Jesus is. That's why I wanted to move on. ~MarkV

Anyone who wants to move on from who Jesus is moves away from what God considers preeminent. The only reason I could even imagine you would want to move on from who Jesus is is so you can promote who MarkV is and be received as such. No wonder your "gospel" generates so much confusion and division in the body of Christ. Where Christ is preached, people get saved, delivered, and healed. Where yourself is preached, people foam at the mouth and throw themselves on the ground.
---blogger8980 on 3/16/12


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michael e,
For the record,

I have appreciated your post
Phil 4:7
And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

Col 3:15And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body, and be ye thankful.

Praise God He is the true teacher.
---char on 3/16/12


Michael E, I thank you for your insight and as I said before, I cannot help you. Sorry for that. I will move on to another blog. Peace I leave you.
---Mark_V. on 1/30/12


//All you did was post who Jesus is.//
Is this who he was or what He did for us.
He died (for our sins).
He was buried.
He was resurrected from the dead.
He ascended to the Father.

Your thoughts don't line up with scripture. Quote one verse where Abraham knew that Jesus Christ was going to die, and be resurrected.
//And he knew about Gen. 3:15 because it talks about the fall of man.//
Where do you suppose Abraham was, when Gen 3:15 was written?
---michael_e on 1/29/12


Michael, you still have no clue what the gospel is. All you did was post who Jesus is. That's why I wanted to move on. Second, the new testament was not even written yet and Abraham already knew the gospel Truth. He was a man of faith, faith in the coming Christ. And he knew about Gen. 3:15 because it talks about the fall of man. Why would he have to believe in the atonement through Christ if there was no fall? I said that Gen. 3:15 is prophetic. All through the Old Testament prophets spoke of the coming Christ. God spoke of His son in (Gen. 3:15), it was a prophetic statement. People need to know why they need Christ in the first place. Old Testament believers were justified by Faith in the Gospel Truth.
---Mark_V. on 1/29/12


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//you have no clue what the gospel is do you?//
He is the Son of God.
He lived a sinless life.
He died (for our sins).
He was buried.
He was resurrected from the dead.
He ascended to the Father.
As Paul said In 2 Cor. 4 "if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost"

To assume Abram understood the meaning of Gen 3:15 before it was written is quite an assumption. Without the NT you wouldn't understand it either.
---michael_e on 1/28/12


Michael e, thank you for your comments. I don't think I can add anymore on this subject to help you. I wish you well in your walk, peace I leave you.
---Mark_V. on 1/28/12


Michael e, you have no clue what the gospel is do you? The first gospel truth is found in Gen. 3:15. It is called, the gospel of Christ for a reason. Though it has many discriptive titles. Genesis 3:15 was the first time that the name of the Redeemer was proclaimed.
This first gospel is prophetic of the struggle and its outcome between "your seed" (satan and unbelievers" who are called the devils children in (John 8:44) and her Seed (Christ, a descendant of Eve and those in Him) which began in the garden. In the midst of the curse passage, a message of hope shon forth-the womens offspring called "He" is Christ, who will one day defeat the serpent. Why does He come? because of the fall of men.
---Mark_V. on 1/28/12


//What is it that you do not understand about the gospel? What part?//
Which gospel are you referring to, what John, Jesus and Peter preached concerning the coming earthly kingdom to Israel or what the risen Christ revealed to Our apostle Paul?
//Old Testament believers believed by faith, faith in the coming Christ//
BCV please
---michael_e on 1/27/12


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Know your audience, when Jesus spoke of "them" he was not speaking of everybody, but only speaking of them whom were misled by the murderers into believing their falsehood that innocent Jesus was not innocent or holy but just another common criminal being executed. Jesus clearly says: "Father, I pray not for the world, except for them that are mine." Jn.17:9. For there were many that "knew full well what they were doing", and these have their place not at the Lord's table, but in the everlasting torments in the lake of fire.
---Eloy on 1/27/12


Michael e, what do you not understand? Hebrews is speaking about the gospel that the old testament heard but did not believe it by faith as we did. It was the same gospel. To them, the coming Christ, to us, the Christ that died. What is it that you do not understand about the gospel? What part?
"The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: All nations will be bleseed through you. So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham. the man of faith" (Gal. 3:8,9). The Grk word for Gospel is (evangelion). Old Testament believers believed by faith, faith in the coming Christ. They were justified by faith.
---Mark_V. on 1/27/12


What differences in the Gospel of the Kingdom(Matt. 24:14) preached by John the Baptist, Jesus and then Peter, and the Gospel of the Grace of God (Eph. 6:15 1Cor.9:12)preached by Paul do you not understand?
Heb 4:2...US...Who is the us in this letter to Hebrews?
//the gospel was preached to Abraham (Gal. 3:8,9)//.
The "good news" to Abraham was he was to be father of many nations. Do you have any scripture that Abraham, Noah, David etc, knew anything of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ?
---michael_e on 1/26/12


Michael, you said a lot but did not make your point. I could put a lot of stuff and not say what I'm talking about and hoping you can make it out.
Listen Michael, there is only one gospel that saves. One only. Many are surprise to find that grace and the gospel are also Old Testament concepts. Hebrews 4:1,2) speaks of that. Similarly we find that the gospel was preached to Abraham (Gal. 3:8,9). There is
"the gospel of peace" (Eph. 6:15)
"the gospel of Christ" (1 Cor. 9:12)
:the gospel of the grace of God" (Acts 20:24).
"the gospel of the kingdom" (Matt. 24:14).
"the eternal gospel" (Rev. 14:6).
This are all descriptive titles given to the gospel.
---Mark_V. on 1/26/12


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Kingdom Gospel, preached by John the Baptist, then Jesus, then the 12.

Water baptism for entrance into the kingdom
Repentance, change their thinking about who Jesus was.
Future, literal, visible, earthly, Davidic Kingdom, Christ sitting on the his throne in Jerusalem.
Promises fulfilled to the patriarchs.
a works oriented, law system

Grace of God Gospel Given to Paul, apostle to Gentiles in the dispensation of the grace of God, kept secret until revealed by the risen Lord.

Salvation apart from Israel,
apart from the mosaic law
apart from works.
Water baptism, not part of the grace message
Justification based in the Lord Jesus Christ his death, burial and resurrection
Immediate,Free,Secure
---michael_e on 1/25/12


Michael e, the gospel of Christ, that saves has many discriptive titles. But they are all the same gospel. In (Gal. 1:6) Paul was addressing the church members. He was talking about them turning to another gospel, a false gospel. (v.6) "I marvel you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to " a different gospel" Not the gospel of Christ.
In (Gal.2:2) Paul is not speaking to Peter, but about Peter. The judaizers claimed Paul was preaching a deviant gospel but the Apostles confirmed that he proclaimed the true gospel which was the same gospel Peter proclaimed, but to a different audience. Paul preached primarily to Gentiles, Peter to Jews.
---Mark_V. on 1/25/12


So MarkV, no amount of God's word will every have any effect on you because God will not reveal it to you. That is why every day, you argue. Such a God as Almighty God cannot be found out by searching, and lying, He can be Known only as He is revealed by the Holy Spirit through the Word. Nothing you say, or argue, are make-up, is worth a bowl of beans. Nada, Zero.
---kathr4453 on 1/25/12


Gal 2:2 And I went up by reve lation, and communicated unto them THAT gospel which I preach among the Gentiles,...
Why would he have to explain to Peter "the same gospel"?
Gal 2:7
Peter's message was under Law, Paul's message was under grace, not the same.
//Abraham and David looked forward to the fulfillment of the gospel//
They understood and the 12 didn't? (luke 18:31-34)
---michael_e on 1/25/12

MICHAEL_E,please read the following verses. They were ALL IN AGREEMENT, was teh point...since Paul was not part of teh original Disciple, is why Paul showed them the Gospel given to Peter was te same Gospel given to Paul.
---kathr4453 on 1/25/12


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Markv
Gal. 1:6 "I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:"
the next verse says it's not totally different, but it's the gospel(1Cor.15:1-4)that he had used in establishing them, but now being perverted, by the law keeping Jerusalem church

Gal 2:2 And I went up by reve lation, and communicated unto them THAT gospel which I preach among the Gentiles,...
Why would he have to explain to Peter "the same gospel"?
Gal 2:7
Peter's message was under Law, Paul's message was under grace, not the same.
//Abraham and David looked forward to the fulfillment of the gospel//
They understood and the 12 didn't? (luke 18:31-34)
---michael_e on 1/25/12


Acts 7:54When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

--- 57Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,

58And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.

59And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

Not everyone who is CUT TO THE HEART by the Wprd of God that is sharper than a two edge sword results in salvation or were they born again FIRST in order to be cut to the heart.
---kathr4453 on 1/25/12


Those that were cut to the heart, the Grk. word for "cut" means "pierce" or "stab." and thus denotes something sudden and unexpected. In grief, remorse, and intense spiritual conviction. That only happens when a person is made alive and convicted of his sin. markv////


Acts 5:33
When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.

Acts 7:54
When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.


There are ONLY TWO references of being CUT TO THE HEART of which BOTH did not result in BEING MADE ALIVE TO GOD.


My comment will cut you to the heart resulting in gnashing your teeth at me as well!
---kathr4453 on 1/25/12


Michael, you said,
"Markv would you be so kind as to show the verses that Peter spoke concerning the gospel he was preaching?"
I did give them to you, the sermon was from (v.14-39).
I was refering to Peter only in Acts 2.
You said
"their sin, is part of the gospel
Since when is sin, "good news""

It's good news since salvation comes to those who have sinned against God. Hello?

You said:
"Btw there is more than one gospel"
There are several descriptive titles in the Bible for the gospel. but no difference in them, read Gal. 1:6-9). Abraham and David looked forward to the fulfillment of the gospel even as we look backward to it's completion in Christ.
---Mark_V. on 1/25/12


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//So what? "they both taught the same gospel."//
Markv would you be so kind as to show the verses that Peter spoke concerning the gospel he was preaching?
//"I was refering to Peter only//
Why didn't peter go to the nations?
//their sin, is part of the gospel//
Since when is sin, "good news"
Btw there is more than one gospel.
---michael_e on 1/24/12


Michael e, your going to argue everything no matter what.
You said: //As Paul told the BoC (Rom 5)Peter said Israel had killed their messiah, different group, different message." So what? "they both taught the same gospel."
I said, the sermon he gave was the gospel truth. You say
Acts 2:36 doesen't seem to be good news." "One verse does not make the gospel," plus what he said, their sin, is part of the gospel, they had sinned and needed redemption.
Then you said: Why did the 12 not go to the nations? "I was refering to Peter only, though they were eleven. He did what was commanded of him in (Matt. 28:19). Give it up. Jesus died because of sin. He gave up His life willingly.
---Mark_V. on 1/24/12


Markv
//but He died for your sins too//
As Paul told the BoC (Rom 5)Peter said Israel had killed their messiah, different group, different message.
//Rom. 6:3,4: 1 Cor. 12:13: Gal. 3:27//
You use Paul's writings as if Peter said them.
//The sermon he gave was the gospel truth//
Acts 2:36 doesen't seem to be good news.
//Peter was obeying Christ command from ( Matt.28:19)//
Why did the 12 not go to the nations?
---michael_e on 1/24/12


Michael e, not enough space to explain everything, but He died for your sins too,
In the context Peter was speaking to Jews from Israel. But what he said is truth for everyone. The sermon he gave was the gospel truth. When they heard it they were all cut to the heart, meaning, the Spirit brought them to life and convicted them of sin. (v. 41) tells us they were three thousand. Peter with his sermon was also speaking to us. Because he spoke the gospel and we are all sinners. Peter was obeying Christ command from ( Matt.28:19) and urging the people who repented and turned to the Lord Christ for salvation to identify, through the waters of baptism, with His death, burial, and resurrection (19:5: Rom. 6:3,4: 1 Cor. 12:13: Gal. 3:27).
---Mark_V. on 1/24/12


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Michael 2: Those that were cut to the heart, the Grk. word for "cut" means "pierce" or "stab." and thus denotes something sudden and unexpected. In grief, remorse, and intense spiritual conviction. That only happens when a person is made alive and convicted of his sin. They were told to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ because many had been baptize by the baptism of John. They were to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, which refers to the indwelling of the Spirit. Only those who believed the gospel by faith were saved. And faith comes according to grace. That is why we are saved by grace through faith.
---Mark_V. on 1/24/12


Markv
I absolutely get the point of His death.(1Cor 15:1-4)
If you can find it any plainer, let me know

Do you actually believe you are in this group?
Acts 2:36Therefore let ALL THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom YE HAVE CRUCIFIED both Lord and Christ. 37Now when they heard this,(heard what) they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized EVERY ONE OF YOU (The whole house of Israel) in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
---michael_e on 1/23/12


Michael E, you just don't get the point of His death. "No one took Jesus life, He gave His life willing." Nobody could take His life, unless He wanted to give it away. He willing gave His life so that our debt could be paid with His blood. Because of our sin. All the passages you give, repent, rejection of Christ, have to do with sin.
---Mark_V. on 1/23/12


Markv concerning (Acts 2:36) you have to understand that passage a little better. First of all when Peter said, "whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ" the passage is referring to their physically putting their messiah to death. That was their sin.
Acts 3:14But ye DENIED the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you, 15And KILLED the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead, whereof we are witnesses.
Acts 3:19Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins MAY be blotted out, WHEN the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord
(Not at the CROSS, why is this so hard for you to understand? You were not part of Israel then, nor are you part of Israel now.
---michael_e on 1/23/12


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Michael, conerning (Acts 2:36) you have to understand that passage a little better. First of all when Peter said, "whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ" the passage is refering to their sins. The peoples sins is the reason He was crucified. He was not indicating only certain people. You are doing the same mistake the RCC did all through history. The long harsh treatment of the Jews by the popes was the result of a serious misunderstanding of Gospel Truth. For by the churches own interpretation of the Cross, it was the Jews alone, whether holy or in part, who were responsible for the Crucifixion, but it was the sin of the whole human race.
---Mark_V. on 1/23/12


//Were those people who crucified Him forgiven because Jesus asked?// Israel,(who killed their messiah Acts 2:36) would have still been forgiven, had they accepted Jesus as their promised messiah. However they didn't as recorded in early acts, ending with stoning stephen acts 7. The ascended Christ calls paul to go to the gentiles starting the Church, the BoC.
---michael_e on 1/21/12


Michael e, I was speaking concerning the words that Jesus spoke while on the Cross. Jesus, in His humanity asked the Father to forgive those who had put him on the cross.
You are way off in Acts and by the way, it was not Jesus who they lied to, but the Holy Spirit. Two different events. I was speaking on the context of the passage.
God's boundless compassion cannot be denied. It rains on the just as it does on the unjust. His compassion was so boundless that even you are saved, if in fact you are. No matter your rebellion, you were still forgiven. If not by the grace of God you would be still heading to hell.
---Mark_V. on 1/21/12


//boundless compassion//
Is His compassion boundless? Ask Ananias, and Sapphira Acts 5
---michael_e on 1/20/12


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Michael e, I could not find anywhere in Scripture where it says that Ananias and Sapphira were present at the crucifixion of Christ. Can you direct me there? You are speaking of two different events in two different times. Or maybe I'm wrong and they were present, do you have a passage to that effect?
---Mark_V. on 1/19/12


Christ was not only speaking of those present only. Must have been a general statement of mankind's ignorance
as a mitigating and ...
Paul touches on the days of his ignorance:

1Tim.1:13 "Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief."
---Nana on 1/18/12


//Christ prayer was an expression of the boundless compassion of Divine Grace.//
Ask Ananias, and Sapphira Acts 5
---michael_e on 1/18/12


"Christ prayer was an expression of the boundless compassion of Divine Grace."
---Mark_V. on 1/11/12
Amen
---chria9396 on 1/11/12


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Donna5535, I agree with Cluny answer though maybe for another reason. We are told that those lost are sinners in need of Christ. And that God saves people by grace through faith. We know by reading the context that His tormentors were both Jews and Romans (Acts 7:60). Jesus said they "do not know what they do" making it clear they were not aware of the full scope of their wickedness. They did not recognized Him as the True Messiah (Acts 13:27,28) Still their ignorance certaily did not mean they deserved forgiveness, rather their spiritual blindness itself was a manifestation of their guilt. Nevertheless Christ prayer was an expression of the boundless compassion of Divine Grace.
---Mark_V. on 1/11/12


like every other blog question here, we can go round and round about the mechanics of something that we cannot fully understand.

but, i teach my children to forgive even if others may not be repented because Jesus said: ...forgive, if you have anything against anyone, so that your Father also who is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses."

Father, forgive me as i forgive.

kind of practical, isn't it?
---aka on 1/11/12


"Were those people who crucified Him forgiven because Jesus asked?" Yes. Forgiven for the act of crucifying HIm.
"Wouldn't they have to repent first in order to be forgiven?" No.
They were forgiven for Christ sake.
---josef on 1/10/12


John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
His own was the nation of Israel. He asked the Father to forgive them(the nation of Israel) Peter follows this in Acts 2 & 3 speaking to Israel as a nation.
---michael_e on 1/9/12


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If the Father doesn't forgive every sin the Son asks him to forgive, then the Two aren't on the same wave length and must have issues with each other.
---John.usa on 1/9/12


Hi Cluny, that doesn't really help me understand, but thanks for the suggestion.

It is my understanding that Jesus said, "Unless ye repent, ye shall perish."

So if He is asking Father God to forgive people for crucifying Him, then can he do that NOW-A-DAYS? and then people won't have to repent?
---Donna5535 on 1/9/12


When Jesus acts sovereignly, don't put conditions on it.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/9/12


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