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SDA People Work On Saturday

Why do SDA's constantly harp on keeping the Sabbath, yet people work on Saturday in SDA hospitals, schools, and other SDA organizations?

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 ---Rob on 1/9/12
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Francis - //Isaiah 56:3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people:

As I tried to explain before, these verses speak of those that are proselytes to Judaism. As such they would need to become circumcised - a ritualistic mosaic event that is regarded as far more important than observing the Jewish Sabbath. John 7:23

A Gentile believer in Christ is not a proselyte to Judaism.

You effectively disregard the decisions made at the Jerusalem council that ruled Gentile believers need not become proselytes to Judaism. And one such law Gentile Christians needed not observe is the Jewish Sabbath as well as the Jewish dietary laws.
---lee1538 on 1/19/12


Lee reality is different. Jesus was asked "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law? And he said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets."

Jesus says all the Law and the Prophets hang upon these two commandments. He is not saying they supercede the Law and the Prophets, but that these two sumarize them all.

You would have us believe by obeying the Law and the Prophets Christians, those saved by Grace, place themselves back under the Law by obeying it. Jesus says no!

---Warwick on 1/19/12


Mark 12:30 thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength:
Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make any graven image, to bow down to
Exodus 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain,
Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Mark 12:31 Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Exodus 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother:
Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.
Exodus 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Exodus 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.
Exodus 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness.
Exodus 20:17 Thou shalt not covet
---francis on 1/19/12


Warwick: You asked if you obey a commandment are you bringing yourself back under the law.

Not really what the Christian really does is to follow the new nature God has given to those who are born spiritually by His Spirit.

If everything one does in dealing with ones neigbor is encompassed by love, the requirments of the law are fulfilled. And that is the essence of Romans 13:9-10 is it not?

The only guide the legalists has is the law since he does not possess the indwelling Holy Spirit to guide him.

1Ti 1:9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, the unholy and profane, ..., for murderers, for the sexually immoral,etc.
---lee1538 on 1/19/12


---lee1538 on 1/19/12
THE BIBLE

Isaiah 56:3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people:

NO ONE CAN CLAIM THAT GOD SEPERATED THEM FROM THE JEWS

Isaiah 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant,

SABBATH IS FOR ALL WHO COVENANT WITH GOD

The sabbath is about God creating in six days, the DEATH OF JESUS CANNOT fulfill the sabbath

Revelation 14:7 worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
---francis on 1/19/12




Jerry - since Muslim trace their ancestry to Esau and Ishmael, they call themselves sons of Abraham. And circumcision started with Abraham circumcising himself, Ishmael and his entire household. Yes indeed, if you wanted to become a proselyte to either Islam or Judaism, you would have to undergo circumcision.

While we read in Genesis 26:5, that Abraham "obeyed My voice and kept My mandate, My commands, My statutes, and My instructions. There is no good reason to believe any of these were the covenant laws given some 450 years later at Mt. Sinai.

Adventists are very desperate to promote the observance of the Jewish Sabbath and grasp at any straw that they can find.
---lee1538 on 1/19/12


Lee: "And does not [sic] all Jews recognize Abraham as their father?"

So do the Muslims. Does that make THEM Jews? They hate Jews just like you do. Maybe you're one of them.

You can't be so biblically ignorant that you didn't know that the word "Jew" derives from Judah, the greatgrandson of Abraham.


"There is no evidence that the Mosaic laws were given to anyone prior to Moses."

Oh really? What do you make of these laws?

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.



---jerry6593 on 1/19/12


the OT sabbath was given ONLY to the nation of Israel as a sign of the Sinatic covenant made ONLY to them. (Exodus 31:13)

The Sabbath was NOT given or mandated to any other peoples apart from the Jews and those who joined themselves to Judaism. Ask anyone that is Jewish.

Furthermore it is obvious from the scripture and from early church history that the church was not required to observe any day.

The Sabbath was fulfilled in Christ as it only was a shadow of the rest of God at creation that believers enter into (Hebrews 4).

Thus the OT sabbath can adequately be viewed as the Jewish sabbath.
---lee1538 on 1/19/12


---lee1538 on 1/18/12

I WANT YOU TO SEE IT FROM THE BIBLE

No such thing as JEWISH SABBATH
Exodus 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of thSABBATH OF THE LORD thy God


The ONLY reference to any day being the lord's day is the sabbath:
Isaiah 58:13 the sabbath.. my holy day, the holy of the LORD, honourable,

CHRISTIAN SABBATH?
The sabbath is establish not based on JEW OR CHRISTIAN, But on the creative power of God who created in six days.
Exodus 20:11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
---francis on 1/18/12


Suggest you read Acts 15 and
---lee1538 on 1/18/12
OK
Acts 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled(PART OF THE DIETARY LAW), and [from] blood (PART OF THE DIETARY LAW).
Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in EVERY CITY them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day (PART OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS).

What do you think: Is telling the connverted gentiles that the word of God is preached EVERY SABBATH DAY encourage or discourage them to keep the sabbath?

Why not EVERY 1st day in ONE CITY?
---francis on 1/18/12




Francis//If as you say anyone that joined themselves to Judaism, had to undergo circumcision then it was not for jews only. It was for anyone who wanted to covenant with God.

Very true but with the old Sinaitic covenant such were called proselytes. However, Gentile believers in Christ did not have to become proselytes nor did they have to observe laws that were strictly Jewish as is circumcision and the Sabbath to be legitimate. Suggest you read Acts 15 and then review the various commentaries written by the teachers the Lord has called into the teaching ministry of His church.

Sorry but your assumption that Gentiles believers converted to Judaism and observe the Jewish Sabbath is unfounded either in Scripture or church history.
---lee1538 on 1/18/12


Unlike the legalist who promotes adherence to law to be legitimate, the Christian is one that is born spiritually of God's Spirit.(John 3:3f)

He is one who has been given a new nature (2 Cor. 5:17)and if he follows this new nature, he will love others and not violate any of God's law that pertain to the heart. Romans 13:9-10

However, keeping the Sabbath, whether it be the Jewish Sabbath or the Christian Sabbath, is something that must be learned as it is not part of either the old or new nature.

Gathering for communal worship on the Lord's day is a tradition that must be learned.
---lee1538 on 1/18/12


Warwick: You asked if you obey a commandment are you bringing yourself back under the law.
But, you leave out the rest of your doctrine from this question.

Not stealing does not bring you back under the law. BUT you link proof of salvation with obedience of commandments. But your own disobedience of the commandments makes even your salvation doubtful or lost according to your own doctrine.

Your doctrine is similar to SDA's in that it frustrates the grace of God.
---Haz27 on 1/18/12


Circumcision was to the Jews alone, and anyone that joined themselves to Judaism, had to undergo circumcision.
---lee1538 on 1/17/12

If as you say "anyone that joined themselves to Judaism, had to undergo circumcision" then it was not for jews only. It was for anyone and everyone who wanted to covenant with God

same as keeping the sabbath
Isaiah 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, EVERY ONE one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant
---francis on 1/18/12


Jerry //Was Abraham a Jew? He and all his non-Jew household were the first to be circumcised.

And does not all Jews recognize Abraham as their father?

Lu 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

And did Abraham observe the Sabbath? There is no evidence that the Mosaic laws were given to anyone prior to Moses.

Me thinks your problem is you post before you think or you are ignorant.
---lee1538 on 1/18/12


Lee: "Circumcision was to the Jews alone"

Was Abraham a Jew? He and all his non-Jew household were the first to be circumcised. You are woefully lacking in scriptural knowledge.


---jerry6593 on 1/18/12


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francis//Funnt how most preachers want nothing to do with the " OT LAWS" except tithing.
---
Yes, there is a problem with that teaching as well, however, what we have today is a 'Christianized' version of the tithe. One does not in accordance to scripture, tithe with agricultural products but with money.

And money does not go to the Levitical priesthood and the temple but to the local church.

I think scripture teaches that one needs give in accordance to how God has blessed one and in view of how much one truly wants to further the gospel.
---lee1538 on 1/17/12


Mark, as I understand it the Sabbath has always been, and still is Saturday. I treat Sunday as a rest day but I don't think that makes it the Sabbath. I hope that clears it up.
---Warwick on 1/17/12


The Ten Commandments are about love. The are about loving GOD and how you act when you love GOD. You respect that GOD is the only true GOD and do not put anything in His place. You do not make images to pray to instead of Him. You do not use his name as a swear word and you want to spend the day he asked you to with him.

If your Father and Mother asked you to come stay with them on saturday and you told them I will come by for an hour but then leave how much love would you be showing?
---Samuel on 1/17/12


//God has NEVER ever had anything for Jews only.

you are not a very studied person.

Circumcision was to the Jews alone, and anyone that joined themselves to Judaism, had to undergo circumcision. And once that was completed, the proselyte had to observe all the tenets of Judaism, especially observance of the Sabbath, a command not found within the New Covenant.

Eph. 2: 11-13 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands, That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
---lee1538 on 1/17/12


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Funnt how most preachers want nothing to do with the " OT LAWS" except tithing.
---francis on 1/17/12


---Marc on 1/16/12
---Cluny on 1/17/12

God has NEVER ever had anything for jews only.
Whether the stranger lived among the jews, or lived away from the jews like the ethiopian treasuerer, God's blessing has always been for
all men.

Psalms 86:9 All nations whom thou hast made shall come and worship before thee, O Lord, and shall glorify thy name.

Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened [his] mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
Acts 10:35 But in EVERY NATION he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
---francis on 1/17/12


---Cluny on 1/17/12
Does it really matter whether the law is about eating the passover meal, or keepingthe sabbath?

The point still stands.
The laws about the passover meal is for jews as well as non jews: Exodus 12:48 And when a STRANGER shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it

The law about the sabbath is for jews as well as Non-Jews:

Isaiah 56:6 Also the sons of the STRANGER, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, EVERY ONE that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant,
---francis on 1/17/12


\\---Cluny on 1/16/12
I did not give only ONE TEXT I gave THREE to show that the LAW of God is for ALL MEN\\

And you misapply two of these verses.

Exodus is talking about who may eat the Passover meal.

Leviticus is talking about sacrificial victims at the Tabernacle and later Temple.

Those are the contexts, which you are ignoring.

BTW, did you think that the chapter and verse divisions are in the originals?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/17/12


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Warwick, what I see happening now is that when you talk about Sabbath you do not mention Saturday Sabbath, just Sabbath. You have to define what Sabbath you are talking about. Others do the Sabbath but not on Saturdays. Just mentioning Sabbath, does not define what you are talking about.
---Mark_V. on 1/17/12


MarkV: "Whether learder [sic] or not, he is still an angel, a created being."

If you can prove that with a KJV scripture, then I'll believe you. Until then, you are WRONG! No angel ever raised the dead - only Jesus.


---jerry6593 on 1/17/12


Michael taking what I wrote in context I am talking of Adventists who are happy to serve others on the Sabbath, as do pastors, doctors etc. Jesus was clear the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. Therefore it isn't a weight upon their shoulders, but a blessing.

However I have met some Adventists (very few) who were very strict regarding the Sabbath so, as I see it, it became an obligation, not a blessing for them. However this type of religiosity is not limited to Adventists is it?
---Warwick on 1/16/12


Francis,

You again take a verse out of context. Isaiah 56:6 is about Gentiles living among Jews BEFORE the coming of the Messiah. It's a then present message and a prophecy. The clue is in the first verse: ''For my salvation IS ABOUT TO COME.''

On your reckoning, Francis, anyone who does not keep the Sabbath is unsaved. Is that true?
---Marc on 1/16/12


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---Cluny on 1/16/12
I did not give only ONE TEXT I gave THREE to show that the LAW of God is for ALL MEN

Isaiah 56:6 Also the SONS OF THE STRANGER, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, EVERY ONE that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant,

Exodus 12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Numbers 15:16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.

---francis on 1/16/12


//They were not concerned about working on the Sabbath.

However I have met a few Adventists who are very strict regarding the Sabbath///

If some sda obey Ex 20:8, some don't, Rom 14:5 concerns what different people think, not Gods commands, really comes into play in sda doctrine.
---michael_e on 1/16/12


Michael, Romans 14:5 concerns what different people think, not Gods commands.

As regards Adventists working on the Sabbath, they are like their pastors who also work on the Sabbath, being called to serve. In SDA churches where I have spoken (as a nonAdventist) I have eaten very nice lunches, served by church members. They were not concerned about working on the Sabbath. They did not seem religiously bound by their Sabbath observance. On the contrary it seems to be a blessing to them.

However I have met a few Adventists who are very strict regarding the Sabbath. Very much the minority. And religious strictness isn't reserved only for Adventists. Some other (US) denominations forbid 'long hair', but who defines long?
---Warwick on 1/16/12


Jerry, If Michael is not an angel then what is he? Whether learder or not, he is still an angel, a created being.
For your information, Jesus Christ is the eternal Son of God. He is not created but the Creator.
There are many titles given to Christ because many are found in Scripture that were mentioned to Him by God's Word. Christ name is found in many places in the Old Testament, and one of them is as the Angel of Jehovah. He was not created an angel but the Second Person of the Trinity. The Second person is the visible God of the New Testament. Neither the Father nor the Spirit is characteristically revealed in bodily and visible form.
---Mark_V. on 1/16/12


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\\Numbers 15:16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you. \\

Text wihout a context is a pretext, francis.

Can you be honest and say what this conext is, or do you want me to expose you for a shameful, shoddy workman who does NOT divide the Word of Truth correctly, and tell the people myself?

It's up to you.

Glory to JEsus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/16/12


As an orthodox Jew said ...---Marc on 1/15/12
Maybe he missed this:

Isaiah 56:6 Also the SONS OF THE STRANGER, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, EVERY ONE that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant,

Exodus 12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Numbers 15:16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.

Yes we do begin the sabbath at sunset on friday as THE BIBLE commands
---francis on 1/16/12


Marc, this is what you should have said to the orthodox Jew.
With what purpose did God give you the law?
Was it not for you to be his priests?
But instead being his priests, you try to perfect yourselves in the law!
But the law was not made, to make you perfect!

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully,

And you dont keep it. Especially, when you say you do!
Peace
---TheSeg on 1/15/12


why should I do a side by side comparison with Jesus Christ and Michael the arch-angel? You are talking about two different Persons. One is God incarnated and the other an angel. ---Mark_V. on 1/13/12

From blog title " can angels take human forms" 8/28/09

Christ as the Angel of the Lord is identified as Jehovah in numerous Old T. passages. When the Angel of Jehovah spoke to Hagar (Gen. 16:7-13) He was identified as Jehovah (v.18). The account of the sacrifice of Isaac (Gen. 22:15-18) affords the same identification. In some instances the expression "Angel of God" is used as a synonym for Jehovah, the Hebrew for God.
---Mark_V. on 9/8/11

Have you changed your position on Jesus appearing as an angel?
---francis on 1/15/12


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As an orthodox Jew said to me when I was once living in Jerusalem, ''Why do you goyim worry so much about the Law? After all, it was given to us Jews, not to you goyim!''

BTW, SDAs, if the 4th commandment's soooo important, do you begin your Sabbath at sunset on Friday night as the Jews do?
---Marc on 1/15/12


Rom. 14:5 "One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind"

How can you "esteem every day alike" if you are to obey Exodus 20:8? You can't! So you need some explanation why one passage says keep the Sabbath and another says you don't have to keep the Sabbath.

The Bible contains both instructions. Trying to explain these passages away do no justice to plain reading, not to mention honest handling, of God's Word.

The answer to the Sabbath Question is dispensational. To use the Bible but not "rightly divide the Word of Truth" (II Tim. 2:15) is confusion and clouds the truth contained in the doctrine of the Sabbath.
---michael_e on 1/15/12


Daniel 12:1 Michael, the great prince

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Daniel 8:25 (JESUS) the Prince of princes

Who is the great prince and is he greater than the Prince of prince.

Anyone who studied what the bible has to say about Michael and Jesus will find that everything that the bible says about Michael is 100% true about Jesus

1: Leader of God's army
2: Great prince of Isarel, prince of prince
3: His voice raises the dead.

The angels says: Daniel 10:21 there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

The same prophecy was revealed by Jesus in the gospels. If Michael is not Jesus, then the angel and Michael know something that Jesus does not know
---francis on 1/15/12


Dear Mark

I did not say I know what goes on in people's hearts. I was talking about what I had seen and heard. People who are rushing to get home to watch football etc.

For saying this observation you say I have an evil soul and think highly of myself. I am a sinner saved by Grace alone. There is nothing I do that others have not done better or that anyone cannot do also. So on what basis would I think myself better then others?

(You need a coherent understanding of who God really is. And that only comes by the Holy Spirit who testifies of Christ. Mark)

True. Which is why I had to be Born Again by the power of the HOLY SPIRIT.
---Samuel on 1/15/12


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John 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall HEAR HIS VOICE,
John 5:29 And shall come forth

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1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the LORD HIMSELF shall descend from heaven WITH A SHOUT, with THE VOICE OF THE ARCHANGEL, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:


WHOSE VOICE RAISES THE DEAD:

JESUS OR MICHAEL?
---francis on 1/13/12


Mark V: "he is an angel."

No, He is not. Nowhere in scripture is Michael called an angel. He is called a prince and THE Archangel - that is, the leader, chief, boss, etc. of the angels. You jump too quickly to an unfounded conclusion.


"why should I do a side by side comparison"

Maybe to gain some understanding and appear less ignorant.


"You now claim to know what others feel in their hearts"

Funny, that's what you used to do to me.


---jerry6593 on 1/14/12


"Francis, why should I [compare] Jesus Christ and Michael the arch-angel? You are talking about two different Persons. One is God incarnated and the other an angel." Mark_V

"Cliff, Christ appeared many times in the Old T. He did appear as the Angel of Jehovah." Mark_V. 1/11/12

Curiouser and curiouser.
---scott on 1/14/12


Francis, maybe you should keep reading after Daniel 12:4?
Like from 12:5 on! Then I Daniel looked, and, behold!
This is something, he has not seen. Something new!
There three here one on this side and one on that side.
But the man clothed in linen which was upon the waters of the river.
Is this an angel? Angelic as he is, No! Since you dont believe this is Christ.
And theres no way, I cant tell you what it is. Youll just have to forgive me, ok!
But, not because Im wrong, but because you have to!

What is written in 12:8
And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
Peace
---TheSeg on 1/14/12


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Joshua 5:14 And he said, Nay, but [as] captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant?

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Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon fought and his angels

Who is the leader of God's army in heaven?
MICHAEL or JESUS?

Daniel 4:35 he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven,

Exodus 15:3 The LORD [is] a man of war: the LORD [is] his name.
---francis on 1/14/12


Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall MICHAEL stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

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Revelation 19:14 And the armies in heaven followed him.. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations:.. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

JESUS or MICHAEL?
---francis on 1/13/12


francis, and why should I do a side by side comparison with Jesus Christ and Michael the arch-angel? You are talking about two different Persons. One is God incarnated and the other an angel. One died for our sins and the other didn't, he is an angel. What do they have in common? not a thing. One is created and the Other is the Creator of all othings. So your suggestion is nonsense.
Concering the Sabbath, I have enough knowledge of it that the Saturday Sabbath is no longer a law for the believer in Christ, He is free from the bondage of the Law. Christ has taken care of that. He kept the whole Law in our behalf. We now rest in Christ. There is no condemnation to those who are in Christ.
---Mark_V. on 1/13/12


---JackB IS THE ANGEL OF GOD/ The lord not also God/ the Lord?
What are the prophetic roles of Michael The Archangel and Jesus? How do they compare and differ? Who is the leader of God's army? Whose voice raises the dead? Who stands up for israel in the last days?

---Mark_V. You have not even done a comparisn of Michael the Archangel and Jesus. You have not studied anything about the sabbath. Which is very evident by your statement " saturday sabbath." " and jesus not keeping the sabbath."

Do a SIDE BY SIDE comparism of what the BIBLE says about MICHAEL and JESUS.
Study what the BIBLE says about the sabbath PAST PRESENT AND FUTURE
---francis on 1/13/12


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Samuel, you also say,

"Now it says here people do not need to spend time with GOD like that."

You mean like you do. What makes you think you and all the SDA's are the only ones who study?
You give (Rom. 3:31) but have no clue what it means. Salvation is by grace through faith and does not denigrate the law, but underscores it true importance,
1. By providing a payment for the penalty of death which the law required for failing to keep it.
2. by fulfilling the law's original purpose, which is to serve as a tutor to show mankind's utter inability to obey God's righteous demands and to drive people to Christ (Gal. 3:24).
3. and by giving believers the capacity to obey it (Rom. 8:3,4).
---Mark_V. on 1/13/12


Samuel, do you not hear yourself? You now claim to know what others feel in their hearts and what they are doing, excluding you, who spend hours upon hours studying. Now, does that make you right? No. You are sounding like the Pharisees who in the flesh wanted everyone to think they were very religious, but inside, but in their hearts they were full of evil.
For the soul of a person to be inflamed with passion for the living God, that person's mind "must first be informed about the character and will of God." For it is possible to have theology in the head without its piercing the soul. You need a coherent understanding of who God really is. And that only comes by the Holy Spirit who testifies of Christ.
---Mark_V. on 1/13/12


JackB: "Michael is an angel"

No, He is not. Nowhere in scripture is Michael called an angel. He is called a prince and THE Archangel - that is, the leader, chief, boss, etc. of the angels. You jump too quickly to an unfounded conclusion.

---jerry6593 on 1/13/12


Many of these people who calim to be under the New Covenant do not like to spend time with GOD. They can barely make it through a one or two hours service before they have to get home and turn on the game.

On the Sabbath I study and spend extra time in prayer. I fellowship with others and we discuss Bible issues. Sometimes we watch shows about the Bible or the church.

Now it says here people do not need to spend time with GOD like that. Look up John Wesley on the Sabbath and see if he agrees with you.
---Samuel on 1/12/12


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The New Covenant does not do away with the law of GOD. It establishes the law of GOD. Who said this Paul.

NASB - Rom 3:31 - Do we then nullify *the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

RSV - Rom 3:31 - Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.

ASV - Rom 3:31 - Do we then make the law of none effect through faith? God forbid: nay, we establish the law.

Now you say the New Covenant does away nullifies the law. Who should I trust you or the bible?
---Samuel on 1/12/12


francis, you sure changed your tune when you found out Jesus was working on Saturday Sabbath. Suddenly you are ok now. Suddenly it is not sin. Suddenly you give passages to that effect. All is changed because you were remind that Jesus Christ worked on that day, and so not sin. You now tell me I don't know what keeping the Sabbath meant. Are you kidding? All of us who answer know what Saturday Sabbath means. There is not one passage I don't have that has Saturday Sabbath. Once I found out what you guys argued about, I check every context to that effect. Then I studied the New Covenant and what it means now. As I said, worship when you want. My conscience is clear.
---Mark_V. on 1/12/12


the commandment said

REMEMBER
it did NOT thou shall not,
remember is NOT a law but a memory of something important like remembering somebody else' birthday
---mike on 1/12/12


If the Sabbath was so important sas you ay, why didn't He keep it, ---Mark_V. on 1/11/12

I think your idea of what it means to "keep the sabbath" and the bible dictates of the sabbath are very different. It is a lack of study, here are a few verses to start with:

Matthew 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
( reference numbers 28 and 29)
Matthew 12:11 What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
Matthew 12:12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
---francis on 1/12/12


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Now my question is this:
have you ever compared the roles played by Michael the Archangel and Jesus?
-Francis

Ok Jesus Christ is our God in the flesh.

Michael is an angel.

If Jesus is Michael in the flesh , then Jesus is NOT God in the flesh.

How can you make such a horrible connection? If you think he is an angel come in the flesh then you deny him as God. That is antichrist! Unless of course you think the angels are a part of God as well, which is insanity. Some angels rebelled. Is God divided among himself now?

Also can an angel save you from your sins? The Bible says God is our only savior.
---JackB on 1/12/12


francis, for months you and others accuse others of not keeping the Saturday Sabbath. All of you argue and now all of a sudden, sometimes it is not sin. Under the Law they killed people for not keeping the Sabbath. Break one and you've broken them all. Yet Jesus did not keep the Saturday Sabbath.
Listen francis, I'm never against anyone worshipping God on Saturday's. You are not under the law. If the Spirit of Christ is in you, you will worship Him everyday, walk in the spirit everyday, do good things for the glory of God everyday. The Old T. people were not indwelled by the Spirit. They could not find time for God so God said, at least one day for Him. That is not necessary anymore for those who are born of the Spirit.
---Mark_V. on 1/12/12


---Mark_V. on 1/11/12
Concerning the sabbath and jesus working, I think the scriptues as well as everyone else has agreed that there are some work that can be done, and some that MUST be done on the sabbath and it is not sin.

Now my question is this:
have you ever comared the roles played by michael the Archangel and Jesus? If you haev give us some examples of the roles of each. how are the similar and how are they different.
SCRIPTURES ONLY
---francis on 1/11/12


francis, go ahead and ask a serious question. I can answer one at a time.
Do you find one passage where Jesus worshipped the Father on the Sabbath? He actually prayed everyday as all Christians do. But you will find passages where He worked on the Sabbath. He spoke on the Sabbath, and everyday. If the Sabbath was so important as you say, why didn't He keep it, since He kept the whole law without sin? Can you explain that? I know you cannot because you think it is sin. Just like the ruler of the synagogue who accuse Him of working on the Sabbath. That is the very accusation the SDA's accuse others of. Here you have Jesus working on the Sabbath, but that is ok with you, just not ok for any of us.
---Mark_V. on 1/11/12


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---Mark_V. on 1/11/12
May I ask you a question and get a serious informed answer?
---francis on 1/11/12


Francis, we know already that the SDA's follow the teachings of E.G.W. and most of us already know what her teachings are.
---Mark_V. on 1/11/12
Show me ONE teacing of E G WHITE that SDA follow which is not found in the bible

Jesus was under the Law, born under the Law and kept all of the Law, but He sure didn't keep the Sabbath.
---Mark_V. on 1/11/12

Do you realize that if jesus was UNDER THE LAW and did not keep the sabbath that he sinned?
---francis on 1/11/12


Francis, we know already that the SDA's follow the teachings of E.G.W. and most of us already know what her teachings are. She also taught Charles T. Russell from the Jehovah Witnesses. And we know what kind of influence she had on him. He started a cult. Jerry admitted what you guys believe when he said,
"scott: I wish to commend you on your scholarly defense of the Bible truth that Jesus is indeed the leader of the angels called Michael." Jesus called Michael the archangel. You do have the wrong Jesus, not the one from Scripture. One your denomination has created. Scott is no different then you or the Witnesses
---Mark_V. on 1/11/12


Then you could say that a man who is forced to work on Sundays by his BOSS is doing well by keeping his job so that he can provide for his family.

Lets stop this judgmental garbage.
---JackB on 1/11/12

1: I did not write the blog question so this should be addressed to ROD not me
2: No christian can claim any biblical law or commandment asking him not to work on the 1st day ( sunday)
---francis on 1/11/12


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Matthew 12:12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
---francis on 1/10/12


Then you could say that a man who is forced to work on Sundays by his BOSS is doing well by keeping his job so that he can provide for his family.

Lets stop this judgmental garbage.

Modern day Pharisees.... so tired of this.
---JackB on 1/11/12


Francis, you contradict yourself and give ( Gal. 4:4) which speaks that we are not under the law. Jesus was under the Law, born under the Law and kept all of the Law, but He sure didn't keep the Sabbath. He worked hard everyday. And if you had read the passages I gave in ( Luke 13:10-17) you would see you are just like the ruler of the synagogue. The one Jesus called a hypocrite. You do the same thing, everyday, over an over. So I have to say the same thing concerning your complains, you are a foolish man who represents the ruler of the synagogue.
---Mark_V. on 1/11/12


Lee: "Since the Sabbath was made for man"

I thought you said it was made for the JEWS! Have you finally come to your senses?


---jerry6593 on 1/11/12


Be careful not to let your mind work about decoy issues that keep our attention away from Jesus!!

"'Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.'" (Matthew 11:28-29)

Jesus says, "learn from Me". Mostly, I consider, He means learn how to love. Criticizing wrong people can keep my attention elsewhere from all that is really right, with Jesus.
---Bill_willa6989 on 1/11/12


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Well based on the bible it is 100% clear that itis lawful to help the sick in a hospital on sabbath.

Matthew 12:11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift [it] out?

Matthew 12:12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
---francis on 1/10/12


So many good points already made by many thank you.

We just keep the Sabbath the way that JESUS directed.
---Samuelbb7 on 1/10/12


Since the Sabbath was made for man, not for God, it is evident that Jesus being the lord of the Sabbath was not bound or restricted by any of its rules.
---lee1538 on 1/10/12
You are truely in the flesh, thinking with your carnal mind and not spiritual

If only youread you bible first or at all

Galatians 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

Jesus was born UNDER THE LAW.
he was subject to all that the law said even the keeping of the sabbath
---francis on 1/10/12


Mark 2:27-28 The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Since the Sabbath was made for man, not for God, it is evident that Jesus being the lord of the Sabbath was not bound or restricted by any of its rules.

In fact, those who have come to believe have already entered into that rest depicted by the Creation rest.
Hebrews 4.
---lee1538 on 1/10/12


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Johnusa, your correct. Jesus Christ kept the whole law, yet we know He did work on the Sabbath. Luke 13:10-17) Jesus healed a woman who had a spirit of infirmity. The ruler of the synagogue was angry and told the crowed Jesus was breaking the Law, even explained about the six days which men ought to work and not on the Seventh. The Lord called them "hypocrites" for accusing Him. After explaining to them what He was doing, "All His adversaries were put to shame..." (Luke 13:17).
Some SDA's are also hypocrites. They yell to others why they work on Saturdays when they should be worshipping on Saturday' and how sinful they are, just like the ruler of the synagogue.
---Mark_V. on 1/10/12


Luke 6:9 Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing, Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it?

So the hospital work. To heal, to ease pain, to comfort and care for the sick, and save life is lawful on sabbath days

Matthew 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless

So the work of the priest / pastors on the sabbath are acceptable to God

Also the work of the military or security forces to keep people alive and save is acceptable ( i willlet you find that text on your own)
---francis on 1/10/12


Rob:

Luk 6:9 Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing, Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it?


---jerry6593 on 1/10/12


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