Do Demons Have Plans
Doesn't it say somewhere in the New Testament that we are not ignorant of the devil's schemes? What is a scheme? And can you give examples of a scheme? A Christian sister said there's no such thing as the devil's schemes. I think there is, what do you think?
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---anon on 1/17/12
Helpful Blog Vote (2)
Iron sharpens iron (Proverbs 27:17).
---StrongAxe on 2/1/12|
Thank you Mark for your words, theyre very humbling to me. Praise God that He can use all who put our trust in Him. The Word is indeed amazing and living. I am always astonished over the endless ways truth is revealed, comfort is brought, mercy is shown, promises are given and how incredibly harmoniously the whole master peace is woven together. I was thinking about you yesterday when doing my devotions and wanted to recommend a book thats a treasure to me, I read it everyday. Its called The Valley of Vision its a collection of Puritan prayers and they are so penetrating, passionate and have brought me great comfort and consolation over the years. You can find it online to read as well.
---Poppa_Bear on 1/31/12|
Poppa Bear, your two cents are worth a million. That was a great answer you gave. For sure it is the greatest love story ever told. And it is all truth. God is so awesome that we never stop learning. We read everyday and more is revealed every day. Sometimes when something comes to me, I go wow, I did not see it that way before. It is amazing. I will have more questions for you later, just like "the believer" and others have about God. Thank you brother and peace from sunny California.
---Mark_V. on 1/31/12|
Brother Mark, good question! My two cents. I think He allowed Adam to be the representative to eventually show that no matter how perfectly man is made, without God being all and all, first and foremost in every decision we are unable to have the abundant life that is only found when connected with God., I also think the plan of redemption is the greatest love story ever conceived and it reveals that attribute of God in a way that may have not been magnified without sin and forgiveness. Forgiveness is one of the greatest demonstrations of love, giving your life for the guilty, allowing enemies to receive the same righteousness that the perfectly obedient Son and Lord of Glory holds is completely incomprehensible, confounding.
---Poppa_Bear on 1/30/12|
Poppa Bear, love you brother. It is nice to go over Scripture. So many things to learn. Of course I was just guessing what really happened. Sounded good at the time. One thing that bothered me about Adam and Eve, why do you think, of course your opinion, God picked Adam as our representive? Why not someone else who could have done much better? Do you think it is the same way He pick's those for salvation who are the least? Just a question brother. Peace I leave you.
---Mark_V. on 1/30/12|
I think I can see that point a little clearer with your comment Mark. It is an intresting concept that I may spend more time on at some point. I am not sure if it is covered by many though. You guys be blessed.
Ps, thanks for the food for thought, it all seems valad to a degree, I haven't put a whole bunch of thought into it before.
---Poppa_Bear on 1/30/12|
All of those are valid examples - for us, because all of us have the knowledge of good and evil. We know that lies exist, and what they are. It is not so easy for the totally innocent for who the very concept of dishonesty and deception are unthinkable.
---StrongAxe on 1/30/12|
Poppa Bear, I believe because of the reasons that Stongaxe put out, the sin she committed was not imputed to all descendants. It was Adam's sin that was imputed to all descendants, for Adam was our representitive. He had no excuse at all. He was not deceived. Eve was. Your example would be great if we didn't know the consequences already if we disobeyed. Eve knew the consequences of disobedience, but didn't know who to believe when the serpent got done with her. The way it looks, she thought the serpent was truthful and God was not.
Adam, on the other hand, just disobeyed.
---Mark_V. on 1/30/12|
Strong, good point! Ok, I am just coming from the premise that God is just and His reaction was righteous and just. Did she have to have any other knowledge about the tree to simply not eat from it as God had commanded? If her sin rested in simple naiveness than would it have been sin? Do you have to know why something is bad in order not to do it? If your boss says dont use my computer in my office, do you have to know exactly why? If another person said, Go ahead, its ok to use that PC, he just doesnt want you to know how to run the business. Would that justify the breach? Where does her sin lie if she just didnt know/understand?
In His grip
---Poppa_Bear on 1/29/12|
" This was conflicting information" True. Did or Eve recognize the conflict? Also, how would she interpret die/death since there was none previously?
---chria9396 on 1/29/12|
She didn't disobey you IF she believed the person was NOT a stranger. The problem is that she lacks the judgment to be able to discern that when the stranger says "I am not a stranger", he is lying, because she doesn't know what a lie is. So when he tells her he is not a stranger, she believes him, as she has always believed everyone else in her life before this time.
Now, it would be different if you armed her with knowledge, say, by saying "Don't trust anything said by strangers". But in the Garden, God never told Adam or Eve not to trust the words of others (like the serpent), so they had no reason to distrust it.
---StrongAxe on 1/29/12|
Strong said, Yes, God said if they ate from the tree, they would surely die. But the serpent said they would NOT die. This was conflicting information.
I understand your point, but what about this argument, if I tell my daughter not to get in cars with strangers and a stranger persuades her to do it, then the bottom line is that she disobeyed me. I shouldnt have to give her every single scenario that a stranger could trick her, as her father she should listen to me, if she doesnt then she is disobeying. Conflicting information doesnt even hold up when we break the laws of our land and claim that we just didnt know we were committing a crime no matter how small.
---Poppa_Bear on 1/28/12|
Poppa Bear, I believe this diologues are great. No name calling at all. Jump right in. Strongaxe and anon are doing great. We keep studying more.
Stongaxe, I believe your correct. The serpent took steps in his deceit, on one he said
"For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil" Here Satan planted the suspicion in Eve's mind that it was not because the fruit of the tree would injure her that God had forbidden her to eat it, but because He did not wish her to be like Himself. She believed she would become a more complete person if she tried it once. Before this time Eve had thought of the forbidden action as disobedience, now she sees it as a necessity.
---Mark_V. on 1/28/12|
//How could they know which was correct? ---StrongAxe on 1/26/12//
StrongAxe here lies your weakness. You say, "How could they know which was correct?" Because they KNEW God, they KNEW His Voice, they KNEW His commands.
They even said to God, "We were afraid when we heard the voice of thee in the Garden."
THEY KNEW GOD..that's the point your missing. So they KNEW they could trust God at His word, they just decided to disobey it.
This is the point your missing...they KNEW GOD INTIMATELY!!! They didn't know "the voice of a stranger."
Jesus said, My sheep hear my voice, the the voice of a stranger they will not follow" but apparently Eve did.
---anon on 1/27/12|
If God is just than they received a just punishment. The play on words and motives is irrelevant in light of that fact the way I look at it. So, is He just? What does that mean in this context to us? Does it even matter? What argument is trying to be made here and what is the premise and conclusion? Sometimes the posts look like an endless game of ping pong with no particular destination. I am kind of dense though, so excuse me if I am just in left field here.
In His grip
---Poppa_Bear on 1/26/12|
Yes, God said if they ate from the tree, they would surely die. But the serpent said they would NOT die. This was conflicting information. How could they know which was correct? Until then, they had not heard a lie, so they would have no cause to believe one source of information was "more reliable" than the other.
Eve apparantly went by "more recent information is more accurate", which even we as Christians often do (e.g. God permitted eating animals after the flood, Jews were bound by the law but Christians aren't, etc.)
---StrongAxe on 1/26/12|
Strongaxe, Adam and Eve knew they should not disobey. They knew the consequences, God had told them what they were. Even though they never disobeyed before and didn't know what disobeying was, now they were warned by God that disobeying had consequences.
"And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden you my freely eat, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it, you shall surely die" Implying, no disobedience they would have eternal life. Disobeying would bring death. And death came to them that day. Spiritual death, separation from God, thrown out of the garden, far away from the Tree of life.
---Mark_V. on 1/26/12|
My point is that a child of that age does not have sophisticated discernment. Once the stranger said "I am not a stranger", how is she supposed to know that he is lying, as she has likely never heard a lie before? If he says it, she will believe it, because she has always been told the truth by everyone in her life up to this point.
It is clear to us in retrospect that Adam and Eve should not have listened to the serpent. Common sense tells us this. Adam and Eve knew they sinned after the fact. But BEFORE the fact, they didn't have this "common sense", since they didn't know disobedience was wrong, since they knew nothing about evil.
---StrongAxe on 1/25/12|
StrongAxe, Yes I would blame her for disobeying.
Since she didn't know the person directly, that means that person to her is still a stranger, so yes, I would blame her for disobeying the "rule" no talking to strangers, so what's your point?
---anon on 1/25/12|
Eve was told two conflicting things by two different people. She had never heard a lie, so she had no experience as to how one should deal with such a situation.
Imagine if you had a 3 year old daughter, and told her "never talk to strangers". Then a stranger came up to her, and she said "I'm not supposed to talk to strangers", and he said "I'm not a stranger. I know your dad", and she went with him. Would you blame her for disobedience?
---StrongAxe on 1/25/12|
Anon, I believe what you said is correct. The story of Eve is different then the story of King David, or so many others who were annointed by God. They were close to God but they all disobeyed. Disobedience in Eve is what I was talking about. She had no sin nature as Kind David which could lure him into sin, but Eve didn't. So the only thing that connects them or anyone else's story is disobedience. The hard part was why it was not her sin but Adam's that took mankind down?
Because, Eve was deceived, Adam wasn't. For no good reason he just disobedyed.
---Mark_V. on 1/25/12|
StrongAxe, whether or not Eve ever heard a lie before isn't the point here.
She flat out didn't obey God. She knew what God said and satan said to her, "Hath God really said you shall surely die?" Somehow the devil convinced her either God was lying or not giving her the full truth so Eve believed a lie which is NOT easy for us humans to detect, you maybe, but not most people.
Whether or not Eve didn't know what a lie was, she outright DISOBEYED God's word, "thou shalt NOT eat of the tree of good and knowledge."
The proof of what I'm saying is when God asked them, "WHO told you that you were naked?"
That wasn't a trick question God was asking, He was trying to get them it wasn't Him.
---anon on 1/24/12|
Strongaxe, what you say is very true especially for Eve, she did not have a sin nature. There was no fall yet. We know it's easy for us to sin because the nature is still there. But they didn't have to coup with that. When we sin it is because we are tempted, Eve was tempted also by the serpent. She believe what he said over what God said. He convinced her he was the truth teller, and that God was not been honest with her, because she could be like God and God didn't want her to know. He deceived her, but it had to be hard since she had no sin nature.
---Mark_V. on 1/24/12|
Instead of Fearing Yahweh, Yeshua the Christ. My mission that women and children get saved helping every soul I know or meet to defeat negative energy and be mindful of evil spirits including the enemy, who go's around searching out those to devour... children of the Almighty...
The devils scheme is to use people( both saved? and unsaved) to say there is no such thing and then... like the girl suggested when you are alone they go for possession, whether awake or sleeping...
---Carla on 1/24/12|
God said one thing. Later, the serpent said something that contradicted it. To us, it would be easy to decide what to do in such a situation.
However, it was not so easy for Eve, because she had never heard a lie before. She would not have even had the conception that it was possible for someone to say something that was not true.
Think back to your own childhood, and how it felt the first time you ever heard someone tell a lie, and how it made you feel.
---StrongAxe on 1/23/12|
StrongAxe, your response surprises me. It sounds like you either twisted the truth of the Word or maybe you didn't read it correctly.
Genesis 2 says: 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
God didn't need to be there, He gives us His "rules" and we follow them. Besides, God is omnipresnet, so God was there. He gave Adam & Eve a free choice and Eve chose to use it to disobey God.
---anon on 1/23/12|
the main plan of demons is to led one away from the lordship of Jesus Christ.
In that they strive to be benevolent granting as many of your wishes as possible and keeping you thinking that your blessings are from God.
It is only when you find yourself on your deathbed will you realize you have been deceived.
The Christian life is often one of discrimination and rejection as well as suffering.
---lee1538 on 1/23/12|
To prove your ministers that you listen to are following pagan beliefs and not the word of the almighty, here's why.
Met a girl 2010 telling us how she contacts her baby lost at birth and how she could see her.... explained how evil deceives people... told her my experiences and I felt a spirit come upon us as we spoke, possibly the one she had been conjuring up.
told her that she is never to do that again, rang her this week, she told me she got saved, was on her knees in the dark praying felt evil presences surrounding her remembered our talk, rebuked the spirits in Jesus name... they left
Your argument is defeated along with your ministers false doctrines to FEAR satan instead of JESUS's name...
---Carla on 1/22/12|
Leon, great answers you gave. I feel the same as you. We should know about the devil and his demons. The very reason we are told about them in Scripture. The biggest scheme is deceiving the world at large. They do not even know it. And I disagree with Strongaxe that God was not there. He is Omnipresent, everywhere. Here again we are told,
"For I know the things that come into your mind, everyone of them" (Ezek. 11:5). God knew what Eve was thinking and going to say before she said it and yet allowed her or permitted her to do what she did. He could have removed the serpent, or He could have made him speak truth if He so desired. But instead God allowed it all to take place.
---Mark_V/ on 1/21/12|
I don't want to know that much about the devil ...It is sufficient for us to know that he is a defeated enemy.
Satan is defeated??? very interesting that contradicts Holy Scripture which states Satan is the god of this world as EVIDENCE from the state of the world TODAY ...a world full of hate, immorality, wars, confusion and chaos, murders, people who kill innocent babies everyday ...men who have religious power and RAPING children then their organizations LIE to cover it up, homeless people and children
Christ is the Prince of Peace and you believe HE rules today and Satan is defeated when destruction is everywhere?
Satan would LOVE if everyone believed he was already "defeated" and powerless today
---Rhonda on 1/21/12|
The word is "wiles", the enemy strategizes in order to destroy people's lives, because he is a troublemaker, full of evil and jealousy and hatred. His end has zero mercy, only everlasting torment for his foolishness and stupidity. We saints of God will all have great delight in witnessing his public humiliation and total destruction before the world.
---Eloy on 1/21/12|
At the time Eve was talking with the servant, God was not present to refute anything the devil said. God only appeared and talked to Adam and Eve after they had already eaten of the fruit, and covered themselves.
Also, remember that before eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, Adam and Eve had only spoken with God. Neither one of them had any knowledge of evil. They had never heard a lie. It would be inconcievable to them that anyone might say something that wasn't the truth. This is why they were so gullible.
---StrongAxe on 1/20/12|
StrongAxe, thank you for your interpretation of Cluny's post.
However, Eve was walking in the Light when she got deceived. Eve knew no sin and yet she headed to the devils temptation. Care to elaborate how that happened when she was walking CLOSE to the Shepherd?
King David was God's anointed and God's appointed King and he fell into sin and He was walking close to the Shepherd, so how did THAT happen?
See my points? Demons manifested to Jesus all the time. Why would Cluny be excluded from them if Jesus wasn't? I mean they BEGGED Jesus not to throw them down the hill and they asked Jesus, "let us go into the swine." Is Cluny closer to God than Jesus?
---anon on 1/20/12|
Cluny said: Leon and anon, as long as we remain next to the Shepherd, the wolf can't get us.
If one ALSO knows "we are next to the shepherd", only then can one conclude "therefore, the wolf can't get us". Otherwise, one cannot jump to that conclusion.
Similarly, you said: Cluny, If you think you are beyond being deceived or schemed against by the devil, then you're deceived.
Again, only if you know the underlined portion above is true, can you conclude "therefore, you're deceived". I didn't see Cluny ever say that here, and you can only infer it from what he said by assuming something else he didn't say either.
---StrongAxe on 1/19/12|
Cluny, If you think you are beyond being deceived or schemed against by the devil, then you're deceived.
Know your enemy and you will know when he's attacking or when it's your own flesh.
I think it's vital we know the tactics of the enemy so we can pray against them.
It's foolish to think if we walk close to the Lord and stay close, then we won't get attacked...demons manifested all the time in front of Jesus and they even said, "don't get rid of us before our time." "Cast us into the heard of pigs."
Jesus said,"What is your name?" They said, "Legion, for we are many."
So if Jesus battled with demons, shouldn't we be aware of their schemes?
---anon on 1/19/12|
How do you plan on staying close to the Shepherd Cluny?
---Leon on 1/19/12|
Leon and anon, as long as we remain next to the Shepherd, the wolf can't get us.
Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/18/12|
//I don't want to know that much about the devil. Why do you?
--Cluny on 1/17/12//
WHY DO I? Because he roams about like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour.
Jesus said, The thief cometh to steal, kill and destroy and I would like to know HOW he schemes against us (believers). He's been defeated at the cross, but Jesus said in Luke, Behold I've given you AUTHORITY to trample upon serpents and scorpions and over all the power of the enemy so that nothing shall injure you...why would Jesus give us Authority and Power over the enemy like that?
Are you beyond being schemed against Cluny? The very people who take him lightly are the very ones he has in his grip.
---anon on 1/18/12|
"I don't want to know that much about the devil. Why do you?"
Cluny: It is wise to study the enemy so we can effectively know how to "resist" him. God obviously thinks its important for us to know the character & wiles (schemes, plans) of the devil. Why else would He have biblically informed & instructed us in that regard?
---Leon on 1/18/12|
I don't want to know that much about the devil. Why do you?
It is sufficient for us to know that he is a defeated enemy.
Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/17/12|
Yes, schemes are plans (strategies, maneuvers,etc.) designed to overpower & cause people to give into the will, & slave-like dominance of others. Demons don't have individualized schemes. They follow the crafty schemes (deceptive, subtle, cunning trickery) of their father, the devil/satan.
Example: The Bible says the devil is a liar & the father of all liars. (Jn. 8:44) As we know, lies are cunningly packaged in a way so they may appear to be true.
Have you ever read the Screwtape Letters? First, read Ephesians 6:10-18.
---Leon on 1/17/12|
In this usage of the word "scheme" it is a master plain and from the master plans, subordinate plans to implement the master plan.
Satin is a very accomplished opponent and never should be under estimated.
He thinks he is equal to YHWH and seeks to usurp YHWH, he will never succeed but that does not mean he will not continue to try do so. His objective is to discredit YHWH and belief in God by all humanity and replace that belief, by belief in himself by all humanity and his plan is on an individual basis by targeting individual human frailties and vanities that we all have.
---Blogger9211 on 1/17/12|
Yes, the Bible does say, "we are not ignorant of his devices," in 2 Corinthians 2:11. And this is written to go with how Paul said the Corinthians needed to forgive the man who had had "his father's wife" (1 Corinthians 5:1). They had put him out, but now that he had been punished, Paul said to forgive him, so he wouldn't "be swallowed up with too much sorrow," (2 Corinthians 2:7) and so Satan could not get an advantage of the church. So, the "device" and "scheme" and "plan" of Satan, here, would be to use unforgiveness and sorrow to get the better of him and the other Corinthians. And we are not ignorant of how Satan can use unforgiveness. God bless you, too (c:
---Bill_willa6989 on 1/17/12|