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Lake Of Fire Alive Or Dead

Are those in the lake of fire alive or dead?

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 ---1st_cliff on 1/26/12
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(I'm shaking my head in dis-belief) WAKE UP, Mark Eaton. I have pointed this out so many times here. Read REVELATION 14! It tells what happens to those who accept the Mark of the Beast! Read the following Verses, TOO... The Lake of Fire in which the Anti-Christ and the False Prophet (REV.19:20), and the Devil (REV. 20:10) and the Damned of mankind, including those who accept the Mark of the Beast (REV. 14:9-11 and REV. 20:15) is the very same Lake of Fire for ALL OF THE ABOVE in these Verses. You're willing to accept that the Anti-Christ, the False Prophet and Satan will definitely go to a horrible Lake of Fire. OKAY. But, the Lake of Fire to which the Devil will go is the same Lake of Fire that the Damned of mankind will go to!
---Gordon on 2/3/12

Gordon: "Jerry, The Bible NEVER EVER says that the soul is "unconscious" at death."

Maybe you need a new Bible.

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing,

Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth, in that very day his thoughts perish.

Joh 11:11 ... Our friend Lazarus sleepeth, but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.

You deny the Words of GOD for the sake of a Church's brand of TRADITIONS and generational teachings.

---jerry6593 on 2/3/12

Mark E, I read the second group of passages you gave and (Jude 7) is not talking about judgement for them on Judgment Day. The destruction of these cities at the southeastern conner of the Dead Sea is used over 20 times in Scripture as an illustration of God's judgment during the days of Abraham and lot (Gen.18:22-19,29). This distruction was in view of their apostasy, since it occured about 450 years after the flood. "as" Sodom and Gomorrah" The angels are reserved for the judgment of the great day. Their destruction will be just like the destruction of Sodom and Gommorrah.
---Mark_V. on 2/3/12

John you will give me a swollen head if you keep up like this!
---Warwick on 2/3/12

Warwick, you are right as usual. I stand corrected.
---John.usa on 2/2/12

John, I cannot see how "outside the universe" is an oxymoron, a contradiction in terms. All things were created by the Lord Jesus so before He created "all things" there was "no thing". Nothing. So the universe being a thing, a created entity, has boundaries. Therefore is is quite reasonable to talk of beyond the universe.
---Warwick on 2/2/12

Gordon, "outside the universe" is an oxymoron. According to your guesswork, God's plans for torture are rather elaborate! :)
---John.usa on 2/2/12

Their torments will go on one day after another. Day after day after day. Never to cease. PRAY to the LORD for Understanding. PLEASE.
---Gordon on 2/2/12

But that is just our point, you are reading into the Bible to come up with your opinions.

Only the torment of the devil, the beast, and the false prophet are described in the Rev 20 passage as going on day and night forever. Yet, you throw all unbelievers into this passage and say that all unbelievers will be tormented forever. The verses do NOT say all unbelievers.

I offered you three other "eternal" Scriptural passages that contradict your understanding. Yet, you choose to igore them.
---Mark_Eaton on 2/2/12

Gordon - I rather doubt that either myself or John.usa has to worry much about the lake of fire since the promises of our Lord will suffice.

As to our limited mentality, you are right in that we see but dimly but there will come a time when we will see clearly.

1 Corinthians 13:12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.

Will the damned endure eternal torment? I have my doubts and I am not alone on this issue. Howbeit, God is a sovereign but He does have a purpose in mind and what purpose would be served to torment the damned for eternity?

Peachers try to scare the daylights out of people so they can control others.
---lee1538 on 2/2/12

LEE and JOHN.USA, The Lake of Fire will not be on the New Earth nor in the New Heavens. GOD can very well have a place, even on the outside of the Universe if HE saw fit, to put the Lake of Fire. Are your views of GOD that unbelievably limited?! You lean on your OWN understanding. One future day, you will find out how blinded you have been. You get on here and mock the Truth. You're trying comprehend the TRUTH by your own fleshly logic. The term Night-and Day is used to help give an understanding of what it's going to be like for the Eternally Tormented. Their torments will go on one day after another. Day after day after day. Never to cease. PRAY to the LORD for Understanding. PLEASE.
---Gordon on 2/2/12

"Heaven and earth will pass away" but hell never ends. That's actually humorous. To turn the Psalms on their head, God's mercy is only for a moment, but his anger endures forever. :-)
---John.usa on 2/2/12

Jerry, The Bible NEVER EVER says that the soul is "unconscious" at death. That is what some call "soul sleep". That is religious man's TEACHING, Jerry. Not GOD's Teaching. The Lord YAHUSHUA used the word "sleep" and the Apostle Paul used the word "asleep" as METAPHORS for Christians when they die, because they have Peace and Rest in the Presence of GOD in Heaven at Death. Whereas, the Damned, the word is not associated with them, because at the instant of their death they have anything BUT rest. Torment and continual UNREST is what they experience. You deny the Words of GOD for the sake of a Church's brand of TRADITIONS and generational teachings.
---Gordon on 2/2/12

John.usa, Pas tout le monde. Seulement les personnes qui ne veulent pas croire le Mot de DIEU sont fous. For Ever means FOREVER. If a smoke is ascending up forever, then, that is a CONTINUAL and ONGOING ACTION. And action that never ceases. It's the smoke of their TORMENT that continually ascends. People that have been annihilated into non-existence cannot be tormented. Only the Damned who are alive but, who have no Life to live can be tormented.
---Gordon on 2/2/12

Gordon: I'm sure that you'll agree that it is dangerous to hang your biblical understanding on one or two scriptures, while ignoring many scriptures that contradict that understanding. Count for yourself the number of times that the Bible says that the dead are really alive and conscious as non-corporeal spooks vs. the number of times that it says that they are dead, asleep, or unconscious. Then get back to me.

---jerry6593 on 2/2/12

//All that smoke of their torment ascending forever and ever will make the New Earth a pretty smoggy place! :)
Good comment john.usa. There is a problem of taking some verses of the Bible literally - as does those who want to believe there will be eternal torment for the damned.

I like the view from Rev. 20:10 that there will be 'night and day' in the lake of fire.

Ridicular to say the least!
---lee1538 on 2/2/12

All that smoke of their torment ascending forever and ever will make the New Earth a pretty smoggy place! :)
---John.usa on 2/1/12

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micha9344 //So the people of Sodom were not utterly destroyed?
Where are they while they await judgment?
In hell along with the rich man who had a dialogue with Lazarus the begger.

Even Christ taught there was a hell, a place of conscious suffering.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Poor pitiful Adventists do not believe in hell since they hold that the dead sleep and are not conscious.
---lee1538 on 2/1/12

So the people of Sodom were not utterly destroyed?
Where are they while they await judgment?
---micha9344 on 2/1/12

Jerry, The Scriptures' writings of Hell existed BEFORE Dante's Inferno. So, you have it backwards. Dante would've gotten his influence from the Scriptures. Your belief would be so laughable, Jerry, if this matter wasn't so important. Yes, those wicked will INDEED burn up and they will be AS nothing. But, not unto annihilation. In Hell and in the Lake of Fire, the Damned are alive but, have no purpose or reason for existing. But, exist they do, and on top of that, with TORMENTS. Because, that is their everlasting Punishment for their SIN and their Rebellion against GOD. You downplay Hell and the Lake of Fire big time. GOD's great Love is equalled by HIS Wrath which is just as BIG. Read the Bible, Jerry, WITHOUT filtering it through SDA doctrines.
---Gordon on 2/1/12

In the RSV, Jesus speaks about "hell of fire".

I always had the ultimate goal of being re-united with the creator and living with Him forever, but my soul was trapped inside my "flesh" and bone existence. It took me 51 years to overcome the 'flesh handicap' enough to understand that it was the 'God dimension' (age of eternity) I was searching for.

Jesus came in the "fulness of time" (completion/end of the "time" dimension) so that our habitual ways of our own daily life would determine our own "eternity" (either "THE life" eternal or...sharing satans destiny/"existence").

The soul of the neglectful unbeliever will remain forever destroyed.
---more_excellent_way on 2/1/12

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Gordon: Your beliefs come from Dante's Inferno - not from the Bible.

Mal 4:1,3 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven, and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. ... And ye shall tread down the wicked, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

---jerry6593 on 2/1/12

micha9344//If Sodom is utterly destroyed, how will it be tolerable in the day of judgment?
It is only after the judgment that the damned will be tossed into the lake of fire.

Perhaps there will be a quicker death for those of Sodom than for the cities that rejected Christ.
---lee1538 on 1/31/12

If Sodom is utterly destroyed, how will it be tolerable in the day of judgment?
---micha9344 on 1/31/12

Please show me a picture of the city of Sodom or Gomorrah. Last time I checked, the cities no longer exist.

Also, do you think the cities will be judged or the people in them?
---Mark_Eaton on 1/31/12

Presque tout le monde ici est completement fou! :-)
---John.usa on 1/31/12

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Mark 6:11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
If Sodom is utterly destroyed, how will it be tolerable in the day of judgment?
---micha9344 on 1/31/12

Rev. 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

I would really love for someone to tell me if there will be 'day and night' in the lake of fire.

I do not see God as one who would punish unbelievers for eternity, nor do I see any purpose for that.

It makes more sense that since unbelievers do not have immortality (1 Tim. 6:16) and that believers will put on immortality (1 Cor. 15:53) to say that the damned are eventually destroyed.

The argument from scripture that the damned will be forever conscious and ever tormented is very weak.
---lee1538 on 1/31/12

there is no "annihilation" for the Damned.
---Gordon on 1/31/12

I would like to join this discussion.

Everyone on the side of "life" in the lake of Fire seems to use two Scriptures, Rev 20:10 and Matt 25:46.

I suggest we also include three Scriptures along with those, 2 Thes 1:9, Heb 6:2, and Jude 1:7

In the second list of verses, we learn that eternal destruction, eternal sentence and conviction, and the example of Sodom/Gomorrah await the unbeliever.

Sodom/Gomorrah are no longer, completely eliminated. Destruction is complete and is synonmyous with death. Eternal sentence is the duration of the penalty, not the duration of the method. A death lasting all eternity is the method.
---Mark_Eaton on 1/31/12

JERRY, The smoke from your pile of brush eventually did go out. BUT, the Scriptures do not say that the smoke of their Torment will eventually fade away. It says the exact opposite! The Scriptures say that the smoke of their Torment "ASCENDETH UP FOR EVER AND EVER."! It will NOT ever stop ascending up! It also does not use slick wording like "the smoke of their Torment "seems" to ascend up for ever and ever! The traditions of religious men's incorrect interpretation of the End Times has made GOD's Word of none effect for the people who adhere to it. There is no "soul sleep" and there is no "annihilation" for the Damned. You're relying on the teachings of religious men rather than GOD's pure Word.
---Gordon on 1/31/12

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Gordon: "the smoke of their TORMENT ascendeth up FOR EVER AND EVER...". Their Torment will last for ever and ever."

Not The same thing. I burned a pile of brush last week. The smoke seemed to rise up forever. But the brush was completely consumed and turned into ashes. The fire is now out.


Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

The fires of Sodom are now out. Go figure!

---jerry6593 on 1/31/12

The flesh has returned back to dust. The souls of mankind that made the wrong choice will burn forever.

The unbelievers of God, you know that there is God - Higher Power, or you people wouldn't be speaking so much against it.
---Lawrence on 1/31/12

GORDON: La Bible enseigne qu'il n'y a que 2 fins pour
La vie eternelle OU
La mort. For the wages of sin is DEATH not what you claim.
Talking about the ciy of Sodom, the Bible teaches that
it would be destroyed by an
fire that would not go out YET it has gone out!
---Pierre on 1/30/12

Pierre, Je regrette, mais, ca ce n'est pas vrai. The Scriptures say, in REVELATION 14:11 "...the smoke of their TORMENT ascendeth up FOR EVER AND EVER...". Their Torment will last for ever and ever. For ever means exactly what it says, FOR EVER. For ETERNITY. The Scriptures do NOT say that the soul of a person is annihilated. That is fearful man's blind HOPE that the Damned will be annihilated. But, GOD's Word says that their Torment will be FOR EVER AND EVER.
---Gordon on 1/30/12

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I'm glad you have eyes and ears to understand the impossible mission bit like speaking in ''tongues'' no one understands them!

When the right moment comes they will all be hiding in the same mountain, running in the same direction and fighting one battle YHWH help them when they actually get there... in the mean time JUST read the bible and ask the holy spirit for guidance.

You may then be able to make sense of the false doctrines most are fighting about on this site.

some make lil out of the info and most make much.Just read the bible for yourself and ask God DAILY to open your understanding.

listening to this lot will dive you crazy
---Carla on 1/30/12

All who will experience the
lake of fire will be ALIVE at the beginning of their experience but will all end up DEAD (consumed by the fire), for the wage of sin is
DEATH not continuous suffering.
---Pierre on 1/30/12

Atheist, electricity still doesnt completely make sense to scientist, but never the less its a reality. He may not always make sense to us, but He does reveal what He wants us to know to enter into a relationship with Him. The nature of a relationship is something that takes time and grows in understanding, trust, and intimate knowledge of each other. When we are so used to instant gratification, meaningful relationships are foreign to us. There is breadth and depth and the forging of strong bonds in an eternal friendship with God. We live in a bumper sticker society where we attempt to find our destiny in fortune cookies and horoscopes, but God is much more fathomless than neat and clever sayings.
---Poppa_Bear on 1/30/12

"If god had the ability to create everything, why would he be so unable to communicate the same thing to all people? It doesn't make sense that he would clearly tell us all exactly how it is." atheist

That's simply because God did not give everyone to His Son Jesus Christ for salvation. And He only communicates through His Holy Spirit to those whom He loved and have given to Christ before the foundations of the world.

For now, you are that very example of that vessel of dishonor Paul talks about in Romans 9. And the consequence of this vessel of dishonor is simply unbelief of His Word. There. Does that satisfy your "missing the point"?
---christan on 1/30/12

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Athiest, Answer: He does communicate the same thing to everyone through His Word. And has made it possible that through the ages people not only learn about Him, but about how much we need Him. It is believing who He is and what He says that most people have trouble with. People like you. He is still saying the same things to you as He does to me, yet you do not believe.
---Mark_V. on 1/30/12

A theist: "It doesn't make sense that he would [not] clearly tell us all exactly how it is."

He did, but many of us (like you for example), don't want to hear it - rather preferring to live in a fantasy world of their own creation.

---jerry6593 on 1/30/12

The heavens declare the glory of God, and Rom 1:20
"For since the creation of the world Gods invisible qualitieshis eternal power and divine naturehave been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse" Pretty universal. Additionally, His Word, the same yesterday, today, forever, goes out, and men loved darkness rather than light. To those who receive Him, He gives the power to become the sons of God.
---chria9396 on 1/30/12

A point is, in Revelation, that there will be the one who "will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb."(in Revelation 14:10) So, one can be tormented by fire and brimstone, and therefore can be conscious in the lake of fire and brimstone.

"For our God is a consuming fire." (Hebrews 12:29) The same fire can burn, cook, or warm, depending on your nature and how you relate with the fire. The same fire can burn what is trashy and selfish, or it can make you warmly sharing (c:

It's what you make it,
how you take it . . .
you can't fool fire (c:
---Bill_willa6989 on 1/30/12

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You seem to be missing the point.

If god had the ability to create everything, why would he be so unable to communicate the same thing to all people? It doesn't make sense that he would clearly tell us all exactly how it is.
---atheist on 1/29/12

Atheist,all Christians are at different stages of development since we are born again from sin to righteousness, 1Peter 2:2 Like newborn babies,crave pure spiritual milk,so that by it you may grow up in your salvation. The process,although spiritual,is like the growth of a child in body,mind,understanding,and knowledge,thats one reason why theres so many questions. No God will not punish people because they disagree with each other as long as they treat others with loving respect and not judge or mistreat others over the difference. I hope that helps to answer your questions.
---Darlene_1 on 1/29/12

Rhonda, In REVELATION 14:9-11, it says of those who take the Mark of the Beast. "...the smoke of their Torment ascendeth up FOR EVER AND EVER: and they have NO REST...DAY NOR NIGHT..." If these Damned were annihilated, they would not be in any state of having "NO REST DAY NOR NIGHT", they just wouldn't exist, period. But, it's showing that they are in a state of UNREST, DAY AND NIGHT. In order for a continual smoke to be ascending FOR EVER AND EVER, there has to be a CONTINUAL FIRE to produce that continually ascending smoke. Sometimes, after a fire has gone out, a smoke will linger for awhile afterwards, but, as long as the fire has gone out, the smoke WILL eventually die away. But, HERE, the smoke is ongoing FOREVER.
---Gordon on 1/29/12

Atheist, A2. Most of our bickering/disagreements come from foolish and immature pride 99.9% of the time. The only condemnation comes from the rejection of Christ as Lord and Savior. He will deal with each person on an individual basis and it is my personal responsibility to be right with God. I also have a responsibility to share the Gospel as accurately as I understand it, out of love and obedience, but as far as somebody receiving it, that is between them and God. Interesting that your user name is Atheist, yet you have quite a few questions and opinions. Keep them coming.
In His grip
---Poppa_Bear on 1/29/12

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Eloy, That's another excellent point! :-) Of course the refuters will simply retort that the weeping and gnashing of teeth is only "temporary" until they are "finally burnt up into Annihilation". Anything to avoid the hard Truth of GOD's Word!
---Gordon on 1/29/12

Atheist, when you meet someone, isnt it just the beginning of a relationship and knowing that one? So it is with God. We know Him more through time spent with Him in the Word, in prayer, revelation given by the Holy Spirit. Still, we are human, and can misinterpret, just as in human relationships. When we come to know Him, we have perceptions, thoughts, already formed must relearn, have our minds renewed, and let go of our former
thoughts. He teaches each of His own in His own way and time, but all that are His WILL come to be in one accord, and know Him more fully, and in TRUTH. Of course we have questions, we want to know (HIM) more, its our hearts desire. If we want to know Him more, we need to be open to hear, to learn, and be corrected.
---chria9396 on 1/29/12

Atheist, A-1. Why do people smoke-over-eat, cheat/lie, drive drunk/and more? Mans fickle, stubborn, sinful, and full of pride and will deviate at every turn even with Gods truth in front of him, even when saved, alone unsaved. We dont all become carbon copies as Christians, we still possess our unique strengths, flaws and opinions. It is Diversity in unity. Not uniformity to one make-model. Each soul has a distinct make and sin is the taint that perverts the truth, once that is removed here after then our uniqueness in Christ will shine for His Glory and our consolation/pries/release from this perishing tent we call a body. My children act different from one/another, respond to me differently but all love me.
---Poppa_Bear on 1/29/12

A theist: "Why, if there is a god, would any of you have any questions?"

Why, if there is NO God, do alleged atheists feel compelled to discuss Him on Christian websites? And, relatedly, do all atheists agree on everything? I don't think so.

---jerry6593 on 1/29/12

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atheist, (continued)

Q2: "And to those of you who disagree on certain matters, is it your belief that the others will be punished for their disagreement about what you believe?"

A: A true Christian never hopes for anyone to be punished by God, for by the same token he too is a sinner before God also deserving death. Only a self-righteous person will judge his brother according to his standard, even though ALL is declared unrighteous before God. As Adam and Eve was in unbelief of God's warning for disobedience that caused the fall of mankind, condemning ALL his posterity to death both in flesh and spirit. Scripture declares it's the sin of unbelief in God that sends the sinner to hell.
---christan on 1/28/12

atheist, you ask a couple of very good questions that even put those who call themselves Christians to shame. I would like to address them.

Q1: "So how come your god, or the god, hasn't clued you all in to the same truth? Why, if there is a god, would any of you have any questions?"

A1: All who belief they are Christians claim to worship the God of the Bible. BUT not all believe the God of the Bible, just like not all Israel believe in God, the very chosen people He gave His oracles to. So, there's a huge difference to claiming and believing.

The Bible is complete and everything the Christian (the believer) needs to know about God's will and purposes is there unless God chose not to reveal it to them.
---christan on 1/28/12

Gordon and Poppa, I'm just following Christian's lead below. He has converted me to hypercalvinism.
---John.usa on 1/28/12

lake of fire is the 2nd death. Once they are dead that's it, it doesn't go on forever and ever, this is a RCC belief. Once God destroys at judgement there is no is not a literal "fire" God didn't allow people in the OT to put their children over open fire he was against it, therefore he won't do the same. he will destroy everything bad.
---candice on 1/28/12


AS CONFIRMED in Holy Scripture

Malachi 4:1-3 that states the wicked shall be BURNED UP and be ashes under the feet of the righteous
---Rhonda on 1/28/12

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For all those bloodthirsty Christians who think that death is not enough:
Consider.. Did God warn Adam of the fire?
Did God warn any of the Israelites of eternal roasting and torture?
At what point in time were humans warned of eternal burning?
NO law and punishment dreamed up "after the crime" is a JUST law!
It was only after mythology was believed that pseudo-Christians embraced this nonsense!
God is too JUST to pull a stunt like that!
And you have spiritual insight????
---1st_cliff on 1/28/12


Okay i don't believe. But you all do.

So how come your god, or the god, hasn't clued you all in to the same truth? Why, if there is a god, would any of you have any questions?

And to those of you who disagree on certain matters, is it your belief that the others will be punished for their disagreement about what you believe?
---atheist on 1/28/12

"But, HE has created us all with FREE-WILL." Gordon

I've been asking for Scriptural backing to this proclamation by people like you for the longest time and have yet to see any. All you do is say this without any truth of Scripture. Again I will show you verses that contradicts this wicked teaching.

"Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass, I have purposed it, I will also do it." Isaiah 46:11

"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:44

See the contradiction? Like day and night!
---christan on 1/28/12

John, you seem to keep blaming God for people choosing to sin. Let me use your words in this scenario. The government planned from all eternity to put the majority of minorities in prison because that would show them how powerful and glorious the Government is? I think rather, people break laws, knowing the consequences and have to face the justice system because of their personal choices. Should rapists and serial killers be able to just walk the streets, or should they have to pay for what they did? Did you or me make them kill or rape? Its not Gods falt, unless you think He should have programmed us like robots to all be automaticly like MR. Rogers.
---Poppa_Bear on 1/28/12

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Gordon, your very wrong. You want to connect the spiritual death with the physical death. The examples Jesus gave were not literal, they were symbolic. They were many. "A place of outer darkness" "A lake of fire" "A place of weeping and gnashing of teeth" "A place of torment where the worm doesn't turn or die" "A prison" "A place of eternal separation from the blessings of God"
Yet we know that God will be present in hell. He will be present in the fulliness of His divine wrath. He will be there to exercise His just punishment of the damned. They will know Him as an all-consuming fire.
Christan is correct, their bodies will be prepared for hell.
---Mark_V. on 1/28/12

john u.s.a., Why are you speaking so foolishly? It is the individual decision of each human being which REFUSES to turn from their rebellion and sin......and, their REFUSAL to turn to GOD for HIS Love and Salvation, that causes them to end up iin Hell and in the Eternal Lake of Fire. GOD says in HIS Word that HE is willing that none perish! It's mankind who chooses to do the things that land them in the Lake of Fire. It's not GOD's desire for them to. But, HE has created us all with FREE-WILL. It's a BIG responsiblity to have free-will, too!
---Gordon on 1/28/12

"GOD is VERY capable of creating a real, literal Fire that BURNS ETERNALLY and CANNOT be put out. Study some more on this, Christan. You're in for a horrifying shock to find how REAL it is!" Gordon

I do not undermine the truth about eternal death and the torment the unbelievers will suffer forever. But maybe you should enlighten us to what you really mean by "literal fire"? Better still, back it up with the Scripture and teach us. I sure would like to learn more about this "literal fire" you speak of that will burn eternally. Be as detailed as possible about this "literal fire" and how and what it is made of. I have all the time to study from you.
---christan on 1/28/12

Alive, for how else will they be tormented in the fire, and be weeping and ganshing their teeth?
---Eloy on 1/28/12

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Rev 20:15
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

If scripture says there will be a lake of fire.. THERE Will be a lake of fire for ones that did not accept the truth dead or alive this fire will leave neither branch nor root.

That is not my idea of punishment it is the Almighty GODS's and if he said it, that is where will go.


Ist_Cliff what bible are you reading, the Mormon book of lies and deceit?
---Carla on 1/28/12

lake of fire is the 2nd death. Once they are dead that's it, it doesn't go on forever and ever, this is a RCC belief. Once God destroys at judgement there is no is not a literal "fire" God didn't allow people in the OT to put their children over open fire he was against it, therefore he won't do the same. he will destroy everything bad.
---candice on 1/28/12

God planned from all eternity to burn the majority of his human creation forever in the Lake of Fire, because that will show them how powerful and glorious he is. Isn't that wonderful!
---John.usa on 1/28/12

Christan, The Lake of Fire is REAL. The way you described it in your very last post is true. It IS Eternal. But, it is a REAL Lake of Fire with REAL Fire! Are you telling me that GOD, Who can create something out of nothing....Are you saying that GOD cannot create a real burning Fire that cannot be put out? What about the Burning Bush before Moses? THAT was a real Fire! It just did not consume the bush! GOD defied HIS own laws of Nature here! So GOD is controlled by the laws of Nature? NO. GOD is VERY capable of creating a real, literal Fire that BURNS ETERNALLY and CANNOT be put out. Study some more on this, Christan. You're in for a horrifying shock to find how REAL it is!
---Gordon on 1/28/12

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"The Lake of Fire is a real, literal Lake of Fire." Gordon"

God uses the physical realm to describe the spiritual for our finite minds. That's "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God", and we can see the testimony from the many denials about the Lake of Fire and eternal death.

The fire is not "literal", for if it was it can be put out. However, the "spiritual fire" can never be put out as it "burns" for all eternity and the "body" that the unbelievers will have is also "eternal" that can never die or turn to "ashes" like the earthen bodies so that they "shall be tormented day and night forever."
---christan on 1/27/12

1st Cliff, What does JOHN 3:36 say? What does REVELATION 14:9-11 say? Read those Verses, I dare you. What about MATTHEW 10:28? What about MARK 9:43-48? What about LUKE 16:19-31? What about REVELATION 3:16? What about REVELATION 20:19? What about REVELATION 20:15? What about REVELATION 22:19? What about HEBREWS 10:31? Now, These are Bible Verses of a GOD Who "has no Wrath? Who does not CONDEMN?" 1st Cliff, you are beating a dead horse. Your understanding of Eternal Damnation is very Satanic. But, the lies you're believing are blinding you. Pray to the RUACH Ha KODESH (HOLY SPIRIT) to enlighten you. You are deceived and are deceiving others by your lack of Knowledge of Eternal Damnation. Scary-sad.
---Gordon on 1/27/12

Christan, The unbelievers, and even those who claim they are followers of GOD but don't believe that the Lake of Fire is real, cannot visually see the Lake of Fire now, but, one day a number of them WILL. The Lake of Fire is a real, literal Lake of Fire. It is not "spiritual" in the sense that it can't be seen or felt, etc. The bodies of the souls will be spiritual. But, the spirit being is MORE REAL than the flesh-and-blood bodies we inhabit now on Earth!!!!
---Gordon on 1/27/12


If god were merciful and the omnipotent designer of creation, he certainly could have created things so that it would not be necessary to torture people for behaving badly, or sending his only son to be tortured as a sacrifice so god would forgive such misbehavior.

Being omnipotent and merciful he could have designed people who lived without sin, or just forgiven them and given them immediate correction if they did.

An omnipotent god would not leave it to such a confusing scripture and people like yourself to sort out what punishments would be necessary in the afterlife.
---atheist on 1/27/12

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The Lake of Fire is a spiritual place, just like the Kingdom of God. So long as you're not what Christ declared to Nicodemus, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." you most definitely cannot see anything that is spoken of by Jesus, period. Only the Christian can see the kingdom of God and the Lake of Fire - by faith, which happens to be a gift from God.

All unbelievers will say the same words as the rich man who begged with Abraham in Luke 16:27-31 to be sent back to warn his family members of the place of torment. Only for Abraham to reply, "If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
---christan on 1/27/12

Gordon, That's about the most evil,horrendous,vile,vengeful,spiteful a description of punishment I've ever seen.
Are you not the least bit afraid of God's wrath,labeling Him as such a fiend???
Don't say this is the Bible's description, the Bible's description of God is Merciful, patient, loving, kind etc...most of all "Just"!
---1st_cliff on 1/27/12

Atheist, NO. GOD does not "get off" on making people suffer. It GRIEVES HIM that people reject HIM and choose to rebel against HIM. You do not know GOD, you totally misunderstand what HE is all about. All you are seeing is the Eternal Punishment for SIN. You never mention GOD's Love for people and HIS willingness to send HIS only Son to die and shed His Blood on behalf of ANYONE who wants to know and love HIM and live forever with HIM in HIS Kingdom in Heaven, and NOT end up in Hell. GOD is BOTH a GOD of Love and of Wrath. HE is a Holy and Pure and Sinless GOD and HE must punish wrong-doing and sin JUST LIKE any human parent must punish the wrong doings of their kids. Except GOD punishes ETERNALLY because souls LIVE ETERNALLY!
---Gordon on 1/27/12

Well, right now we have plenty of people in torment much more than their stupid and selfish deeds deserve. They are suffering because of their own character making them able to so suffer, when they could be in God's grace sufficient with almighty power of peace and joy against the effects of this world. And in the resurrection, this will no longer be diluted by physical pleasures, but they will reap how they have been now. So, I would say get with God so this stops, if you really believe in not suffering for eternity!
---Bill_willa6989 on 1/27/12

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1st Cliff, The ones cast into the Lake of Fire are ALIVE. But, they do not have "Eternal Life", that is, the true, high-quality of Life which has meaning, value and purpose, which is promised to the Saints of GOD in Heaven. NO. They don't have THAT kind of "living existence"! Rather, the kind of "living existence" of those in the Lake of Fire is that they have NO PURPOSE in being alive, but they HAVE to be as part of their Punishment! They have nothing to do while they are alive in that Lake. Their existence is void of Love, Purpose, Relationships, Meaning, Value, etc. and on top of all that, they have Horror, Pain, Fear, Dread, Regret, Darkness, Evil, Emptiness, Loneliness, Depression, Torture, Torment, etc.
---Gordon on 1/27/12

Maybe god gets off on making people suffer.
---atheist on 1/27/12

"Are those in the lake of fire alive or dead?" ---1st_cliff on 1/26/12
"They are dead, they will not 'live', (be revived or restored to life) They are 'deceased" (consumed), they will not 'rise' [to life again]. Therefore You have punished and destroyed them, And made all their memory to perish." Isa. 26:14
---joseph on 1/27/12

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