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Why The Trinity Is Important

Why is it very important for Christians to subscribe to the doctrine of the Trinity?

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 ---lee1538 on 1/28/12
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"Your unsubstantiated claim that 'all' [pas] can mean 'all other.' Warwick

The NIV translators can "substantiate" this for you-


"All the other disciples..." Matt 26:35

"More into the treasury than all the others." Mark 12:43

"And all the other disciples..." Luke 3:19

"You give God...rue and all other...herbs." Luke 11:42

"Galileans...worse sinners than all the other Galileans...? " Luke 13:2

"More guilty than all the others...?" Luke 13:4

"...and to all the others..." Acts 16:32

"All other sins..." 1 Cor. 6:18


Be careful jumping onto Marc's ill-informed bandwagon.
---scott on 2/3/12


"'Loipos'...absent from Colossians." Marc

It's also absent from Acts 5:29 (KJV, TEV, NIV and GNT):

"Peter and the [other] apostles answered..." KJV

"Peter and the other apostles replied:..." NIV

"Peter and the other apostles replied..." TEV

"Peter and the other apostles answered..." GNT

"They are...taken out of the way as all other, and cut off..." Job 24:24, KJV


Apparently your list of "Mistranslations" has just gotten larger.
---scott on 2/2/12


Even without the word 'other' at Colossians 1:15-17, the meaning does not change the fact that Jesus is subordinate to God and his Father. Jesus being the 'image' of his Father and the 'firstborn' of/over all creation.

Trinitarians believe 'firstborn' means distinguished or prime and thus believe Jesus was not part of creation but the most distinguished in relation to those who were created. If this is true, why are the Father and the holy spirit not also said to be the firstborn of all creation?

With or without [other], it makes no difference as Jesus Christ is subordinate to the Father. The same Greek word is used at Lu.21:29, Phil.2:21 where translators of the 'New English' and the 'Jerusalem Bible' use 'other'.
---David8318 on 2/2/12


MarkV, what The Seg wrote in his own peculiar way is right with regards to the Truth.

PARA1: Jesus declares we must worship God in Spirit and Truth. MANY DENY this when they claim that by their "free-will" they can worship Him without being born of the Spirit.

PARA2: Luke 24:39, only Christ,who's God can manifest Himself in a glorified body after His death to be seen by His elect even though He's Spirit, touching and feeling Him. What an amazing scene it must have been. If you're His body (Ephesians 5:30) how can you not belief Jesus is God?

PARA3: confirms Matthew 11:25-27.

Luke 12:26, one depends on God for breathe, why does one make great boast he can change himself to a Holy being? Which is impossible.
---christan on 2/2/12


The Seg, you said a lot and did not give what your point was. I tried to figure it out and couldn't. you gave (John 4:24) God is Spirit. Then gave ( Luke 24:39) which is speaking of the humanity of Jesus after He had risen. Then you gave ( Eph. 5:30) where it is speaking of His visible Church. then you give (Luke 12:26) which reads "if you then are not able to do the least, why are you anxious for the rest"
I do not believe we are mind readers Seg, help us out. What in heaven are you talking about? Please give us a little break here will you? As they say in footbal, "Come on man"
---Mark_V. on 2/2/12




Arch-Angel Michael was possibly Jesus in re-birth form?
1st Cliff

The main reason that Michael cannot be a re-birth Jesus or The Son is because Jesus has the choice to go to the cross or not (pray in the garden). An angel is a messenger of God and can only do his purpose. If Michael is Jesus then Jesus and Satan are on the same level of power and that is not true.
---Scott1 on 2/2/12


Its not funny, but I tell you, it kind of is!
First, above all love God!
Joh_4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
So, whats the first thing we do?
Deny this truth!

Next, Christ the lord said!
Luk_24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
So, whats the next thing we do?
Deny this truth!
Eph_5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

He also said:
Until you know the son, you cant know the father.
For only the father knows the son.

Luk_12:26, Peace!
---TheSeg on 2/1/12


David your ignorance and bluster does not evade the fact the JW NWT does not follow the Kingdom Interlinear only because the Kingdom Interlinnear clearly states Jesus is Creator God of everything, obviously not a created being.

Larson's Book of Cults does not list the C & MA. But the Jehovah's witness organization is listed as a "Pseudo-Christian Cult."

David when you point a finger at another remember three of yours point back at you.

BTW the Kingdom Interlinear has 'me' twice at John 14:14 but the NWT has it only once?

John 17:11 ESV reads ".....Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are one." Your point?
---Warwick on 2/1/12


Matthew 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,...

Darlene, were you baptized in the name of or in the names of the Father, son, and Holy Spirit?
---lee1538 on 2/1/12


Warwick still evades answering why his trinitarian 'knuckle dragging' (his words) cohorts ignore the Westcott & Hort Greek text at John 17:11. Warwick persistently and hypocritically castigates the NWT for rightly ignoring the Westcott & Hort text at John 14:14 because of the obvious trinitarian corruption, yet hypocritically ingores the fact the he inserts the word 'name' twice at John 17:11 when it appears only once in the W & H text. Sort your own back yard out first Warwick!

By the way, which corrupt trinitarian fundamentalist outfit do you belong to? It wouldn't happen to be the highly corrupt Christian & Missionary Alliance (C & MA) by any chance would it? You seem to fit the bill for that cult.
---David8318 on 2/1/12




"Until I see it explained in understandable terms in the Bible itself I see the doctrine of Trinity manmade." Darlene1

"...blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." John 20:29. Still can't see? Christ declared, "It is the Spirit that quickeneth, the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are Spirit, and they are life." John 6:63

You're trying to understand the Word by your dead flesh, which "profiteth nothing", "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.". John 3:3 - take a good guess as to which person of the Trinity gives life to the sinner in his dead spirit?
---christan on 2/1/12


Colossians 1:15 - 'Other'.

All Bible translators supply needed words in accordance with their own understanding of what meaning the Bible writer actually intended.

At Col 1:15 Jesus is not just called 'firstborn', he is called 'firstborn of every (pas) creature." Grammatically he is included among the created and is numbered as the first. Logically, those who followed would be 'other' creations.

Trinitarians gnash their teeth at Paul's clear declaration and argue about 'adding words'. However:

The KJV NIV, NKJV, TEV/GNB, Beck, etc., add the word 'other'' at Acts 5:29.

"Peter and the [other] apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men." (Also KJV at Job 24:24).
---scott on 2/1/12


Until I see it explained in understandable terms in the Bible itself I see the doctrine of Trinity manmade. The Bible does say,first Comandement Mark 12:29 says its first, Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord,And thou shall love the Lord thy God with all your,soul, and might. One means being a single unit or thing,or constituting a unified entity of 2 or more components. Trinity in Latin means threefold.Revelations 3:21 -sat down with my Father on his throne. Theres one throne in heaven. To me it isn't important to adhere to the Trinity doctrine because I haven't learned it from the Bible.
---Darlene_1 on 2/1/12


David hypocrisy sadly is a common human failing. We know what we should do but fail to do so. We also know what we shouldn't do but often do it.

But you are in a different order being a deceiver. The Kingdom Interlinear Translation (KIT) at Colossians 1:16 reads "because in him it was created the all (things)in the heavens and upon the earth, the (things) visible and the (things)invisible, whether thrones or lordships or governments or authorities, the all (things) through him and into him it has been created." But by the time it appears in the NWT "all things" has become "all other things", four times, destroying the meaning of your own Kingdon Interlinnear. And you call me a hypocrite!
---Warwick on 2/1/12


David, you still have not answered Marc's challenge.

I repeat it for you:
"Marc (1/30/12) pointed out that you simply assert that 'all' can mean 'all other' without giving any "argument or documentation" to support your claim."

"He asked "Please provide some examples to prove your case." You have evaded doing so."

And while you are at it maybe you could answer my questions regarding organ transplant being described as "cannibalism" and why the NWT 1961 said "worhip" Jesus but the 1971 mistranslation has downgraded this to "obeisance." Maybe Scott could stop hiding and attempt an answer?
---Warwick on 2/1/12


Lee, maybe you have caught the David virus the one which causes him to make unsubstantiated claims, then refuse to give supporting evidence when asked?

You have claimed that "Adventist religious philosophy" states "Satan is our sin-bearer..."

Now if this is true (and you can supply documentation to prove this) we must thank you for pointing it out. But if it is untrue then you are a liar and deceiver aren't you?

Which is it?

I believe your claim, compounded by your unwillingness to support it is libel.
---Warwick on 2/1/12


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Christan //as a Christian, by Faith I believe the Holy Bible (regardless of NIV, KJV, NKJ, NASB, etc) is WITHOUT errors as far as the teachings of salvation by grace through Faith in Jesus Christ is concerned.

I would agree with you that what we have in most translations is totally sufficient as far as our basic doctrine is concerned.

It is important that Christians subscribe to the doctrine of the Trinity for the reason expressed by the following.

"The harmony that exists between the various doctrines of the Christian faith is such that error in regard to any one of them produces more or less distortions in all of the others." (p. 1,The Reformed Faith by Loraine Boettner)
---lee1538 on 2/1/12


Colossians 1:15, 16- (2)

Continued-

"...If the NIV, NRSV, TEV, and LB translators are willing to "add words" in order to shift the meaning of the passage away from Christs connection with creation and "all things," then it is clearly justifiable for the NW to cement that connection, explicitly expressed in the passage, by bringing to the foreground of translation those implied nuances which go along with the meaning of the passage as a whole."

Dr. Jason David BeDuhn, associate professor of religious studies, Northern Arizona University, M.T.S. in New Testament and Christian Origins from Harvard Divinity School, and a Ph.D. in the Comparative Study of Religions, IU.
---scott on 2/1/12


Warwick, you are a complete hypocrite. You dance around and evade answering why you insert the word 'name' twice at John 17:11 when it only appears once in the Westcott & Hort text. Adding the word 'name' twice at John 17:11 twists the verse to suit your trinitarian corruption.

Putting your hypocritical ranting to one side, the WTS have not deleted anything at John 14:14. The additional 'me' is not in any MS older than the 3rd century- as KJV, ASV and other translations agree.

The NWT is not based on the Westcott & Hort text- which is only a 'text' and not a MS. Not only are you revealing your hypocrisy, but also your ignorance.
---David8318 on 2/1/12


lee1538, as a Christian, by Faith I believe the Holy Bible (regardless of NIV, KJV, NKJ, NASB, etc) is WITHOUT errors as far as the teachings of salvation by grace through Faith in Jesus Christ is concerned. To harbor thoughts that there are errors, you're not a Christian.

One can be a "true student" of the Bible but as long as you're not born of the Spirit, it matters naught. That's because you cannot see nor enter the kingdom of God as taught by Christ in John 3.

To even compare 2 Timothy 3:16 with Erasmus "paper pope", I wouldn't even go there. That's because one is the written Word of God and the other is from a fallen sinful creature that questions the Word of God. It's a no brainer.
---christan on 2/1/12


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Scott, You say ** The angel...was the pre birth Jesus**
Why do fundamentalists get upset at suggesting that the Arch-Angel Michael was possibly Jesus in re-birth form? His name means "one who is like God"
True the Jews missed Christ's 1st advent, but for 4 thousand years they were the sole possession of God, yet He never revealed to them His Multiple personality?
From the historic record alone "trinity" has been added to placate the heretics!
---1st_cliff on 2/1/12


it is important for this creature to believe in Elohim...the Father, The Word, and the Holy Spirit...all three existed from the Alpha. they are all revealed in due time. there is no need for me to try to stuff Divinity back into one and honor Judeo-christian dogma.
---aka on 1/31/12


David, you say those dastardly polytheistic pagan Trinitarians add words in English. This is true, and often necessary because translating language to language can rarely be done 'word for word.' The significant difference is that adding 'other' (four times in Colossians 1:16,17) perverts the meaning. The Greek Interlinear JWs use says Jesus created all things proving Jesus is Creator of everything, not a created being, as you falsely claim. The NWT translation disagrees with the Greek interlinear the NWT is based upon! Bizarre! All your dancing and evasion changes nothing.

The same applies to the WTS deletion of the first me in John 14:14 which again changes the meaning of the very Greek Interlinear your organization uses!
---Warwick on 1/31/12


David, Marc (1/30/12) pointed out that you simply assert that 'all' can mean 'all other' without giving any "argument or documentation" to support your claim.

He asked "Please provide some examples to prove your case." You have evaded doing so.
---Warwick on 1/31/12


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---1st_cliff on 1/31/12

Well "us" is plural that means more than one. Read Mark Driscoll's book called Doctrine. The trinity is complicated because sometimes God refers to himself as the whole God while other times a part of God like when it says the Spirit of God came upon a prohpet. The angel of the Lord who stopped Abraham from sacrificing Issac is a pre-birth Jesus. The main point of the trinity is The Son call the messiah in OT left heaven to go on mission to earth to save mankind. The second point is that the HS abides in us so that we can have the fruits and gifts of the spirit and talk to God. I would also not rely on current Jews because they are still Jews because they missed Jesus.
---Scott1 on 1/31/12


David,

I was mistaken about the 'ransom' soteriology with JWs. Glad you cleared it up for me.

Now, rather than committing the fallacy of authority i.e. quoting some academic who sides with you as your proof, as Scott continuously falls prey to, explain why 'other' should be added to Colossians 1:16.
---Marc on 1/31/12


Christan //All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." 2 Timothy 3:16

While this is true in general, the "paper pope" is not infallible in each and every way as we see many different versions of the Bible that have been created over the centuries.

If you were truly a student of the Bible you would recognize that there are differences between the various codices and manuscripts which means that some need be in error.

I do hold that no basic doctrine of the Christian faith is violated by any minor errors in the Bible. And you should be satisfied with that position.
---lee1538 on 1/31/12


Scott, Gen.chap.1?
I see nothing in your post that even remotely resembles a "trinity"
How does "us' and "our" translate to trinity?
The spirit moving over the waters somehow becomes a 3rd person?
The Israelites were passionate about "ONE" God (Deut.6.4) The pagans had multi-personalitied gods,from whom they distanced themselves!
At what point in time did they embrace a triune god?
4,000 years later? No and the Jews today still do not recognize a multi-personalitied god!
---1st_cliff on 1/31/12


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Warwick (or are you really Marc), what question have I evaded?

You hypocritically castigate the NWT for what you believe constitutes 'inserting words' when you are guilty of precisely that. You complain the NWT omits 'me' at John 14:14 when it appears in the Westcott & Hort text yet you include the word 'name' twice at John 11:11 when it only appears once in the Westcott & Hort Greek text.

This is both an example of your hypocrisy and your perverting the 'context' of the Bible according to your trinitarian, Neo-Platonic stance.

With regard to John 14:14, the word 'me' as in Jesus saying, 'ask me in my name' does not appear in MS older than 3rd Century. The KJV, ASV and NWT correctly render this verse.
---David8318 on 1/31/12


Lee, you are beginning to sound like David, making unsubstantiated slurs. Maybe 'David' is just another name you use?

You have claimed that "Adventist religious philosophy" states "Satan is our sin-bearer..." Now if this is true (and you can supply documentation to prove this) we must thank you for pointing it out. But if it is untrue then you are a liar and deceiver aren't you?

Which is it?
---Warwick on 1/31/12


"If this verse were really authentic then we could conclude the validity of the concept of the Trinity." lee1538

For all your hypocrisy of your so called believe in the Holy Bible, even dare say you are a Christian, such a comment is truly truly clear you are in unbelief. And this is not my personal judgement of your words but the Word of God that comes against your confession.

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." 2 Timothy 3:16

You can make all kinds of profession of what you belief but it's really the power of God who will expose hypocrisy in His time. And you have been exposed.
---christan on 1/31/12


"However, the above verse is really the infamous Comma Johanneum, not found in any Greek version prior to the 16th century but only in the Latin Vulgate. It only got into the Greek used in the KJV by duplicity." lee1538

If such is your doubt about the validity and authenticity of all the English Bibles translations, why on earth do you even bother to quote verses from Scriptures that were from them.

The true Christians, yes there are false ones like you, by faith believe that the Holy Bible was indeed inspired by the Holy Spirit through the prophets God sent to teach His people. Your dependency and trust on the wisdom of man and not the Holy Spirit is a sign you lack the faith that's a gift from God.
---christan on 1/31/12


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Colossians 1:15, 16- (1)

"It is ironic that the translation of Colossians 1:15-20 that has received the most criticism (the NWT) is the one where the "added words" are fully justified by what is implied in the Greek...we now recognize by the gross distortion of the passage in other translations that what the NW translators have done is certainly necessary after all..."

Continued
---scott on 1/31/12


David you evaded Marc's question.

On another thread, in a 'answer' directed to me you said Colossians 1:16 properly reads "because by means of him all [other] things have been created....all [other] things have been created through him....Also, he is before all [other] things and by means of him all [other] things were made to exist....

Your unsubstantiated claim, is that 'all' can mean 'all other.' We know words are added in the Engish text to give a better or smoother translation e.g. Luke 1:32. But there it does not reverse the meaning of the text. However in Colossians 1:16 the insertion of 'other' changes the meaning so completely that the WTS can falsely claim Jesus is a created being! What deliberate perfidy this is!
---Warwick on 1/31/12


1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

If this verse were really authentic then we could conclude the validity of the concept of the Trinity.

However, the above verse is really the infamous Comma Johanneum, not found in any Greek version prior to the 16th century but only in the Latin Vulgate. It only got into the Greek used in the KJV by duplicity.


I would hesitate to use it in any discussion on doctrine.
---lee1538 on 1/31/12


David8318//Where do you get the idea that God must 'pay' anything to the Devil?
---
Is there not something to that effect in Seventh Day Adventist religious philosophy?

I do read that Satan is our sin-bearer in Adventism.

Perhaps it is all too easy to get one heretical cult mixed up with another.
---lee1538 on 1/31/12


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When did the Isrealites first start believing in the trinity? Book, chapter and verse please!
---1st_cliff on 1/30/12

I am glad you asked Gensis chapter 1.

In the beginning, the firstborn, God created the heavens and the earth... and the spirit of God was over the waters ... let US make man in our image. They just did not understand Jesus (The Son) would come as a servant first.
---Scott1 on 1/31/12


As usual Marc, yes you are wrong.

You ask- 'Is it true that the JWs believe God paid the ransom of his own Son to the Devil?' Short answer to that is no!

God doesn't have to 'pay' anything to anyone, let alone the Devil. Does that mean Marc you believe God must pay something to the Devil? Do you believe- as a believer in the trinity- that God "as flesh in the form of Jesus", was required to pay a ransom to the Devil?

Where do you get the idea that God must 'pay' anything to the Devil?
---David8318 on 1/31/12


Marc, I do not know of what you term 'the NW[Mis]T translation'. You like your comments have me confused with someone else.

Please direct your rubbish elsewhere.
---David8318 on 1/31/12


1ee1538, interesting concept, I would never call a man "trinity", and as for a married couple joining together, that is God's way of joining two bodies into one flesh, but not one soul, they couple into one flesh by intimate intercourse to be fruitful and multiply. For the man and the woman are not joined together 24/7, neither is the man the woman nor the woman the man, for the man is the head of the woman. Whereas the trinity of God is better named the Triune God, God is One and not three: for three gods is polytheistic idolatry, rather than monotheism which is Christ Almighty the everlasting God, Creator of heaven and earth.
---Eloy on 1/31/12


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1stCliff, I've said it before and I will say it again, it's not the Holy Bible I question but YOUR UNDERSTANDING. The Holy Bible declares:

"For there are THREE that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these THREE are ONE." 1 John 5:7

This equates to blasphemy, "My Father is greater than I" (no HS) or "I and the father are one" (NO HS)(in union)" and "How does mentioning Holy Spirit 80 times make it a "person"?".

Clearly 1 John 5:7 condemns your understanding and goes on to prove how deep that darkness is even though you claim it is light that you have.
---christan on 1/31/12


It's important for the followers of GOD to adhere to the Doctrine of the Trinity because, the Trinity is Who GOD IS. GOD is a GOD of Truth and HE desires that HIS people be of the Truth in all their inward parts.
---Gordon on 1/31/12


Christian, Careful you don't fall from that high pedestal your preaching from!
Maybe the psalmist is guilty of blasphemy since it's he who omitted Holy Spirit from Psl.110.1? or "My Father is greater than I" (no HS) or "I and the father are one" (NO HS)(in union)
How does mentioning Holy Spirit 80 times make it a "person"?
You cite Rom1.16 "power of God" That,sir, is Holy Spirit!
---1st_cliff on 1/31/12


1stCliff, you use one verse in Psalm 110:1 to justify the none existence of the Holy Spirit and that's nothing short of blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Good for you.

In the entire Bible, the Holy Spirit is mentioned no less than one hundred times, with Christ and His apostles teaching about the Holy Spirit more than eighty times. And since it's clear as day and night that the Holy Spirit does not exist in you for now, our conversations is nothing short of foolishness.

The man does not have the power to convert anybody, "for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" Romans 1:16. And when Paul says "God", it includes the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit without needing to be specific.
---christan on 1/31/12


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David,

Without any argument or documentation, you've elsewhere asserted 'all' (pas) may be sometimes translated as 'all other' according to context, hence the NW[Mis]T translation of Colossians 1:16 as ''because by means of [Jesus] all [other] things were created.'' There is an appropriate word for 'other', and the biblical writer would have been aware of it. The word is 'loipos' and it is absent from Colossians.

By ''context'' you actually mean the Watchtower theologically-driven context. Please provide some examples to prove your case.
---Marc on 1/30/12


David,

Is it true that the JWs believe God paid the ransom of his own Son to the Devil?

So, let me get this straight: the Almighty HAD to pay a blood sacrifice to something evil in order to get back what He wanted?

Maybe I'm wrong, but only you and Scott can tell me otherwise.
---Marc on 1/30/12


Christian, **Christians belief in the triune God**
Wrong!
You say=
inRom 1.16.**and God is three**?? wow that is a funny bible!
As you see I cited the NIV and you call it "unholy"
I think you wold be more comfortable with the Book of Mormon because it says there in Alma 42.9 that "the soul can never die"! More in line with your theology!(this is not found in the bible)
When did the Isrealites first start believing in the trinity? Book, chapter and verse please!
---1st_cliff on 1/30/12


Act_1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Luk 4:14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee:
Rom 1:4 according to the spirit of holiness
Rom_15:13 through the power of the Holy Ghost.
Rom_15:19 by the power of the Spirit of God,
2Ti_1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear, but of power

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him.
---TheSeg on 1/30/12


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"Scott, I don't know what bible you're reading,but NIV (Plms.110.1) says nothing about "by power of spirit" why are you adding these words?" 1stCliff

Christians belief in the triune God - the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. And Paul declares, "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." Romans 1:16 - and God is three!

Seriously, which versions of the Holy Bible are you using? Or should I say, unholy bible?
---christan on 1/30/12


Eloy //lee, Get understanding. God is not a personage, just as you and I are also not personages, but we each are a person.

I believe there are some benefits derived from asking this question regardless of what view I have chosen to accept.

While you and I am NOT personages, if we were married then in the eyes of God, we would be viewed as one, provided we were of opposite gender.

Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

From 1 Cor. 7:34, 2 Cor. 7:1, and Hebrews 4:12 we can say that man is a trinity - body, soul, & spirit.
---lee1538 on 1/30/12


Lee- the trinity did not begin with "the church" as you call it.

The trinity was in existence long before "the church" got its hands on it. Ancient Egypt worshipped their god's in groups of 3 often referring to their trinities in the singular. Babylon had its triads.

While the trinity was being fashioned in Satan's pagan system, God's people the Israelites had nothing to do with the pagan trinity. Israel worshipped 'one God' YHWH- Deut.6:4.

It is very important for Christians NOT to subscribe to the doctrine of the pagan trinity.
---David8318 on 1/30/12


lee, Get understanding. God is not a personage, just as you and I are also not personages, but we each are a person. The One God had put on flesh in the person of Jesus Christ Almighty, in order to redeem man in the flesh, plain and simple.
---Eloy on 1/30/12


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All the responses so far have not revealed the rationale upon which the early church arrived at the conclusion that the Godhead consisted of three personages.

While opinions are sometimes worthwhile, those that are based on an educated background are often have more weight.
---lee1538 on 1/30/12


Scott, I don't know what bible you're reading,but NIV (Plms.110.1) says nothing about "by power of spirit" why are you adding these words?
Father says to Son "Sit at my right hand.."
That's 2 persons no trinity here!
The 4th person in the furnace was an angel (impervious to fire)
After Jesus' assertion God elevated Him to a higher position so that now every knee would bend obviously allowing Him to be worshipped!
---1st_cliff on 1/30/12


The flesh of God died on the cross. One God & Only One. John 8 v 58, 1st. Tim. 3 v 16.

The light for the apostate trinity teachings came from here, 2nd.Cor.11 v's 14 - 15.
Most people Do believe the lies of the trin - god head. The devil believes in One God & trembles, he ( the devil ) has his people believing in 2 - 3 gods.
---Lawrence on 1/30/12


I'd like to see how Marc applies 'ransom' to God!
---David8318 on 1/30/12


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\\God did not die for us, He sent His Son to "become human" and ransom us from this curse!
God did not "beget Himself" He begot a Son. \\

And His Son was begotten in eternity by the Father (which makes the Son God as well) but incarnate in time of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary.

In other words, the Son existed BEFORE He was known as the man Jesus.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/30/12


Cliff,

Explain how 'ransom' applies to Christ?
---Marc on 1/30/12


Mat_28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

This is from the gospel of Matthew. Christ the Lord is teaching.
All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

If you have a problem with these three names.
Don't fight us, because we believe it.
We are not the one who said it!
These are the words of him, you say!
Is Christ, the First Begotten Son Of God!
Amen
---TheSeg on 1/30/12


The "Trinity" is not only a doctrine, but our Heavenly Father, and His own Son Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. And God made man in His own image, and mankind is family with three basic persons . . . father, child, and helpmate. So, God is all about family love, with His Family love Persons relating with each other. So, this is what we need to get into, with Them (c: And so, we do have religious groups who are using the Trinity for their own purposes, piggy-backing on the reputation of what has been in God and the Bible, all along. Wrong people using the Trinity does not make the Trinity wrong!
---Bill_willa6989 on 1/30/12


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//Strange thing though,the Isrealites who were God's own people, never embraced such a notion and neither Jews today.//
1st cliff

Then why did King David say "by the power of the Spirit (Holy Spirit) the Lord (God the Father) said to my Lord (God the Son) sit at my right hand until I quench your enemies"
---Scott1 on 1/30/12


---1st_cliff on 1/29/12

Then who is the forth person in the furnace in Daniel.
Please explain the baptism of Jesus without the Trinity.
If Jesus was not GOD then why did he break the first commandment or allow it to be broke by accepting worship and claiming to be God.
---Scott1 on 1/30/12


lee, "The trinity" is "The Triune God". God the Father bore man the Son whom bore the Holy Spirit. This belief is essential because: if you deny Jesus is God, then you deny his Almighty Godhood: and if you deny that God became a human Son, then you deny a Redeemer who relates to humans: and if you deny that God is the Holy Ghost, then you deny his Omnipresence and that he is holy. There are many verses professing that this gospel is salvation: "for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost: therefore also that holy thing which will be born of you will be called the Son from God. For to you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, which is Christ the Lord." Mt.1:20+ Lk.1:35+ 2:11.
---Eloy on 1/29/12


Marc, More psychobabble from fundamentalists.
Who was it that sank the human race? Adam, a man!
Who was sent to save humanity? The man Jesus of Nazareth!
No, God did not die for us, He sent His Son to "become human" and ransom us from this curse!
God did not "beget Himself" He begot a Son.
In order to conjure up a trinity another party had to be added to Father and Son.
The "power of God" had to be personalized making "Him" ,Holy Spirit, a third part of this triangle,called a "God head".
God by committee if you will!
No! Deut.6.4 YHVH is "one" God!
---1st_cliff on 1/29/12


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"This is He that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ, not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are One" 1 John 5:6,7

The Trinity is the very reason how the sinner is brought to salvation. The Father chose, the Son died for those whom the Father chose and the Holy Ghost gives life to only those whom the Son died that the Father gave to Him.

"All that the Father giveth me shall come to me, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." John 6:37
---christan on 1/29/12


You don't need to post anything carla writes on false interpretations of this doctrine, but someone always comes along AND POST EXACTLY WHAT YOU DID NOT ALLOW...
---Carla on 1/29/12


John 10:30f I and the Father are one. The Jews picked up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, I have shown you many good works from the Father, for which of them are you going to stone me? The Jews answered him, It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.

It is easy to see that even today, the concept that God could come in the flesh, live among us, and then die and come back alive, really makes no logical sense.

However, those that believe in the Trinity simply accept it because they believe that Scripture confirms it. And this has been the position of the church since early in its conception.
---lee1538 on 1/29/12


Agreed rhonda.... Jesus didn't say to follow the trinity to be saved or you'll be condemed, no for it is the name of Jesus only to save us! The trinity idea originally a hethen and pagan idea was adopted into the RCC to have christians believe. Christ never taught it. He is seperate from God, and God is seperate from him, but they ARE in unity as far as agreement about his fathers kingdom. I know Jesus is my messiah, his father is my father, and I am non trinitarian and Jesus & his father still love me!once you know the truth you will not accept the worldy view of false teachings such as the trinity.
---Candice on 1/29/12


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1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Acts 13:30 But God raised him from the dead:

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

John 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it

the power to raise jesus from the dead appears to held by the Spirit, the father and jesus himself. Which would make them all GOD
---francis on 1/29/12


\\It is very important for people to subscribe to trinity doctrine demonstrating allegiance to rcc the pagan babylonian religious SYSTEM that worships this god \\

Rhonda, if the Roman Catholic Church thought of the Trinity, then why are there churches of apostolic foundation that were NEVER under Rome who believe the doctrine?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/29/12


I would agree with many who've said, NO! If this was from man!
But, is this from man or to man? How is it man, even knows of God?
Because, God came to man! When has man, ever look for God!

So, it's by the wisdom of God!
1Co_1:21

Well than man, must have known Christ? Yea Right!
You knew only because God told you, of his coming!
Isa_7:14 and more!

Well then man must have known about, the Holy Spirit? Joh_7:39!

If man didn't know! How did this become his doctrine?
When the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Thank him, again.
Peace
---TheSeg on 1/29/12


It is very important for people to subscribe to trinity doctrine demonstrating allegiance to rcc the pagan babylonian religious SYSTEM that worships this god

Apostles never taught trinity ...any denomination that falls prey to importance of trinity subscription bows down and serves their MOTHER Rev 17 NOT Christ

True Believers follow Christ who was ONE with The Father (no other gods) and follow the TEACHINGS Christ and Apostles

Apostles WARNED many would fall away from the teachings of Christ easily understood when many have those itchy ears for a non-biblical trinity doctrine found in rcc's catechism 2Tim 4:2-4 prefering the false teachings of man rather than the teachings given by GODS Holy Spirit 1John 2:26-28
---Rhonda on 1/29/12


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One of the perennial and pressing problems in all philosophy is how does one explain the question of unity and diversity, the one and the many. If God has a single nature, and just one, as The Watchtower pushes, then the diversity in the world is difficult to explain i.e. how can someone/thing produce something/one which is completely different to itself? If God is diverse in His unity, one yet many, as the Church has always maintained, then the problem evaporates. That is, the nature of God is diverse and unified from eternity.

Second, only if the Son is God eternally, can God save us. The JWs have a creature, not God, saving us. God, then, has done nothing for us.
---Marc on 1/29/12


"Why is it very important for Christians to subscribe to the doctrine of the Trinity?" Lee. There is nothing, scripturally, that states that it is. He that comes to the Father simply need "believe that he exists, and that he rewards those who seek him."
---joseph on 1/29/12


It's necessary if you want to stay on the fundamentalist bandwagon.
To believe that God is a singular God as in Deut.6.4 is to label yourself a heretic!
Multiple personalised gods have been around since Baal, or Ra or Vishnu!
Strange thing though,the Isrealites who were God's own people, never embraced such a notion and neither Jews today.
I find that rather convincing that this is a trumped up "ism" invented in the latter years to mimic the pagans!
---1st_cliff on 1/29/12


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