ChristiaNet MallWorld's Largest Christian MallChristian BlogsFree Bible QuizzesFree Ecards and Free Greeting CardsLoans, Debt, Business and Insurance Articles

Law Of Sin And Death

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. What is this law of sin and death?

Join Our Christian Chat and Take The Ten Commandments Bible Quiz
 ---lee1538 on 1/30/12
     Helpful Blog Vote (3)

Post a New Blog



Or, if you insist this( SABBATH) be kept literally, why not circumcision?
---StrongAxe on 2/5/12
Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it:

Because God is the creator of man, God and God only can reclaim, or redeem man.

Revelation 14:7 worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

There are no senarios under which God can stop being creator.

The death of Jesus did not bring and end to God as creator, it only strengthened it. Because God is the creator of man, God and God only can reclaim, or redeem man.
---francis on 2/5/12


Lee, thank you for the Westminster Confession. I think it explains the situation perfectly."not under the law, as a covenant of works,to be thereby justified, or condemned, yet is it of great use to them, as well as to others, in that, as a rule of life informing them of the will of God, and their duty, ...."
---Warwick on 2/5/12


Warwick: Regarding 1Cor 5 it speaks of SPIRITUAL fornication. See my posts to Francis.

As for 1John3:6, it means Christians don't sin. Dump Gill's and study to see for yourself that Jesus set us free from sin.

Christians are NOT UNDER THE LAW. God says so.
Gal 5:18 "ye are NOT UNDER the law"
Rom 6:15 "we are NOT UNDER the law'
1Tim 1:9 "the law is NOT MADE for a righteous man (Christians)
Rom 8:2 SET FREE from the law of sin and death

What does this mean?
What the law says it says to those UNDER IT Rom 3:19
BUT, where there is NO LAW there is NO TRANSGRESSION (SIN) Rom 4:15
Clearly if your NOT UNDER the jurisdiction of the law you CANT be accused/judged of transgression (sin).
---Haz27 on 2/6/12


Haz27, Did God REALLY divorce Israel??? Not according to Hosea!

And if God really divorced Israel, WHY then does a Jew need to DIE TO THE LAW in order to be joined to another. May want to brush up on Romans 7. If God really divorced Israel, then Paul was just wasting his breath in Romans 7.

Gentiles don't have to DIE to the LAW, beccause Gentiles were never under Law. WHO was Paul addressing in Romans 7???

Moses allowed divorce because of the HARDNESS of the man's heart, accoording to Jesus, and if the woman remaried SHE was in SIN.

No Jew can be joined to Christ apart from a death to the LAW, ....that you say is non existant through divorce???? HUMMM!
---kathr4453 on 2/6/12


Isaiah 50:1 "Thus saith the LORD, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away."

There are many people who foolishly teach that God divorced Israel, but He certainly did not. In Isaiah 50:1, God is asking Israel if He has ever been unfaithful? God reminds the Jews that He has never divorced Israel, but Israel did abandon God. There was NO bill of divorce because God never gave it to them. God never divorced Israel. God was hurt and angry because Israel had abandoned Him.

Romans 11:1-5 clearly teach that God did NOT divorce Israel.
---kathr4453 on 2/6/12




//Which is what everyone is saying. Christians try to keep all the laws, but they do fail for no one is without sin.

Howbeit, do you not agree that many of the laws found in the Bible especially those of the Old Testament are really NOT APPLICABLE to the Christian?

This seems to be the contention with Francis that all laws in the Bible are applicable to the Christian.
---lee1538 on 2/5/12


if you insist this( SABBATH) be kept literally, why not circumcision?
---StrongAxe on 2/5/12
Genesis 17:9 Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee.. This is my covenant...Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

Genesis 22:18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because thou hast obeyed my voice.

The blessing to all nation / the fulfilment of this circumcision covenant occured on the cross.

To be circumcised after the manner of ABraham is to deny that the blessed seed of abraham is Jesus.

Galatians 5:11 And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.
---francis on 2/5/12


francis, you didn't say which people claim to be christian and take breaking the law for granted. I haven't seen one say they do. Then you said,
"Even after you accept his death for your death. If you really understood what sin did to God, you would keep ALL HIS LAWS and not live in sin. If per change you failed in one, you would sinserely repent"
Which is what everyone is saying. Christians try to keep all the laws, but they do fail for no one is without sin. But what really get you is not that everyone sins, because you know you do to, but you want everyone to do Saturday Sabbath. That is what its all about. You consider not doing Saturday Sabbath a sin, and we don't. Instead of all the talk get right to the point.
---Mark_V. on 2/5/12


Francis: Your incorrect regarding leaven meaning sin (physical fornication) in 1Cor 5.

As I tried to show you in 1Cor 2:11-14, God's word is "SPIRITUALLY discerned". Stop looking at it in purely physical terms.

As for leaven in 1Cor 5 see Matthew 16:11,12.
"Then they understood that He did not tell them to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the DOCTRINE of the Pharisees and Sadducees."
That is self-righteousness through the law (similar to SDA doctrine).
---Haz27 on 2/5/12


Hi kathr. I'm curious, are you under the law?

Interesting you appear to suggest being divorced as being sin. Interesting doctrine.
But, God divorced Isreal.
---Haz27 on 2/5/12




Consider 1Cor 5:6,7. Purge out the "old leaven". What is the old leaven?
---Haz27 on 2/5/12

The old leaven is sin.
In this particular case is was the sin of fornication, not righteousness by law.

1 Corinthians 5:1 It is reported commonly [that there is] fornication among you..,1 Corinthians 5:2 And ye are puffed up.. 1 Corinthians 5:6 Your glorying [is] not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
1 Corinthians 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven,

1 Corinthians 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
---francis on 2/5/12


Or, if you insist this( SABBATH) be kept literally, why not circumcision?
---StrongAxe on 2/5/12
GREAT QUESTION!!!!!
In six days God created heaven and earth, and rested the 7th day and blessed it and hallowed it. THIS HAPPENED BEFORE SIN IT CANNOT BE A SHADOW,

CIrcumcision was given to Abraham. Abraham used flesh/ carnal/ reasoning to make Ishmael. Circumcison institued by God to be done until the seed of promise comes and the entire world is thus blessed by him. It symbolises the removal of the flesh ( carnal mind) in exchange for faith.
Jesus is the seed of promise by whom the world is blessed. Those who through faith accept the seed have had their carnal minds removed to receive that of the spirit

125 word limit
---francis on 2/5/12


While the believer is NOT under the law, there is still an obligation to other people.

Westminster Confession of Faith XIX.6. Although true believers be not under the law, as a covenant of works,to be thereby justified, or condemned, yet is it of great use to
them, as well as to others, in that, as a rule of life informing them of
the will of God, and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk
accordingly discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature,
hearts, and lives, so as, examining themselves thereby, they may come
to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against sin,
together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ, and the
perfection of his obedience.
---lee1538 on 2/5/12


Haz, you seem fascinated with the term "under the Law" but have never defined what you mean by this. Please do.

Do you believe that as we are not "under the Law" we can disregard it and steal, lie and commit adultery?

You seem to be saying that as Jesus fulfilled the Law that which the Law prohibits, and commands is no longer prohibited or commanded. Right?
---Warwick on 2/5/12


Haz, again you quote 1John 3:6 s without adding 1 John 2:1 for context. "My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous."

And as Paul reports (1 Corinthians 5:1) there was serious sexual sin (worse than pagans) among believers.

Gill's exposition explains 1 John 3:6, putting it in context. "not that he has no sin in him, or lives without sin, but he does not live in sin, nor give up himself to a vicious course of life, for this would be inconsistent with his dwelling in Christ, and enjoying communion with him:" "...He does not live in sin", doesn't have a life given over to sin!
---Warwick on 2/5/12


Francis: Funny you should refer to my post as "foolishness". Remember we've discussed 1Cor 5 before?

See 1Cor 2:11-14. "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness to him:neither can he kmow them because they are spiritually discerned".

Consider 1Cor 5:6,7. Purge out the "old leaven". What is the old leaven? Matt 16:6-11 it's the doctrine of righteousness through the law of the pharisees/sadducees.
Similar to SDA doctrine.
---Haz27 on 2/5/12


Read These Insightful Articles About Debt Consolidation


God says we're NOT UNDER LAW. HOW then can Christians STILL be accused of transgression?
---Haz27 on 2/4/12
example of christians trangressing the law.

1 Corinthians 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

Here is Paul advising Timothy how do deal with christiasn who sin
1 Timothy 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

How many churches have to discipline young unmaried CHRISTIAN couples when the unwed women gets pregnant?
Or married individauls for adultery?

HAZ27 If only you would THINK before posting this total foolishness
---francis on 2/5/12


francis:

On 2/4/12 you said: Read my posts again Notice I NEVER say that christians should be physically circumcised.

On 2/3/12 you said: All the OT laws are applicable to christians.
EXAMPLE: The law of circumcision of the foreskin, is very applicable because it teaches us of the law of circumcision of the heart whcih is not made by hands. ...


So you mean that the circumcision law must be obeyed symbolically and not literally then?

How about the sabbath law? God created the sabbath for man, not vice versa. If we obey this symbolically, it means we need to take adequate time to rest, not a slavish obedience to a 7-day calendar.

Or, if you insist this be kept literally, why not circumcision?
---StrongAxe on 2/5/12


Warwick, sorry I didn't reply sooner (missed your post).
You say, "I have not promoted being under Law!"
ALSO, you say: "So we do sin (which is breaking God's Law)"
This is contradictory.
Remember sin is transgression of the law.
And what the law says it says to those UNDER IT, Rom 3:19
BUT Christians are NOT under the law. We CANNOT be accused/judged by the law.
And where there is NO LAW there is NO TRANSGRESSION (SIN) Rom 4:15.

Why claim we are NOT under the law and then say Christians transgress the law (when we're NOT under it's jurisdiction)?

Also our repentance is from DEAD WORKS, Heb 6:1. Dead works is trying to establish your own righteousness, Rom 9:32, Rom 10:3.


---Haz27 on 2/5/12


Francis: You claim SDAs are enabled to obey the commandments. BUT, the truth is, SDAs transgress them (sin). You don't even observe the Sabbath correctly.
Why do you fail to see your contradiction?

1John3:6 "Whoever abides in Him sins not, whoever sins has not seen Him, nor known Him."

If you remain under the law and therefore judge righteousness by not transgressing it then your not submitting to the righteousness of God.

In Christ our old man is crucified. I no longer live but Christ lives in me. Abide in Christ and be set free from sin (John 8:36, Rom 6:7)
---Haz27 on 2/5/12


Read These Insightful Articles About Refinancing


It is interesting those who claim not to be under the Law claim to be sinless. HOWEVER the scriptures also tell us the JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH, and what ever is not of FAITH IS SIN.

Do Christians live 24/7/356 by the faith of the Indwelling Christ in them? They NEVER have a moment of doubt...ALWAYS OBEY the voice of the Holy Spirit every single minute????

I don't believe they do!

IF God Hates divorce, and many here who claim to be sinless are divorced...HUMMMMMM! OH right, it's the OTHER PERSONS FAULT..right!
---kathr4453 on 2/5/12


Some people here who claim to be christian take sin ( BREAKING GODS LAW) for granted.

Imagine if you lived before the death of Jesus and you broke one his his Holy COmmandments: you take you animal to the sanctuary to kill it for your sins, while there you see 1000's of other people doing the same thing. It must strike you that sin is truely bad, That so much inocent blood must be shed for sin.

Living after the death of Jesus. You realize that your sin, caused God himself to be beaten, spit upon, and finany killed.

Even after you accept his death for your death. If you really understood what sin did to God, you would keep ALL HIS LAWS and not live in sin. If per change you failed in one, you would sinserely repent.
---francis on 2/4/12


And is it not a sin to light a fire in your home on the Sabbath?Exodus 35:3
---lee1538 on 2/4/12
Let me direct this toward those who think that not keeping the sabbath is not a sin. If not keeping the sabbath was the ONLY SIN that was ever commited Jesus would still have to shed his blood and die.
It is 100% clear that Jesus died for our sins, he did not die for those who commit murder, or adultery only.
Those who did not keep his sabbath are also responsible for placing my saviour on the cross. If you think that God will ever take it lightly that people continue to do that which placed his Son on the cross. ( IN YOUR CASE NOT KEEPING THE SABBATH) go ahead.
---francis on 2/4/12


Francis: Those born of God CANNOT sin,1John3:9.
BUT he who sins is servant of sin,John 8:34, of the devil,1John3:8. Just ONE transgression makes you guilty of ALL,James 2:10.

Sin is transgression of the law,1John3:4. So to be accused of sin you have to be UNDER the law. What law says it says to those UNDER IT,Rom 3:19.

Francis claims grace BUT, if you disobey law you die. This is mixing grace with being UNDER law.
In effect Francis DENIES the law of Spirit of life in Christ Jesus SETS FREE from law of sin and death.

God says we're NOT UNDER LAW. HOW then can Christians STILL be accused of transgression? Our righteousness is in Christ. The criminal on the cross was not judged under law so whats changed?

---Haz27 on 2/4/12


Send a Free Salvation Tract


\\in effect what you are stating is there is THAT MUCH reasoning to disobey...
True believers understand Rom 8:2 does not IMPLY one can now FREELY sin\\
---Rhonda on 2/4/12

In effect, what I'm saying is EXACTLY what I wrote. No more, no less.

What I was expressing is that Paul was accused of exactly what YOU are accusing me of

Rom 3:8
And why not say (as some people slander us by saying that we say), "Let us do evil that good may come"?


If your understanding of the gospel isn't misconstrued as teaching a license to sin, then you do not have the same message as scripture.

An accurate teacher of grace is ALWAYS accused of antinomianism by those who prefer to stay under the Law
---James_L on 2/4/12


Francis //That is: because we accept his grace we OBEY THE LAW

And is it not a sin to light a fire in your home on the Sabbath?Exodus 35:3

Do you sleep with your wife during her menstrual period? You disobey the law if you do. Lev. 20:18

Charge interest on a loan you make to someone? It is a sin in the OT to charge interest.

Silly boy, not all laws found in the Old Covenant are applicable to the Christian. Exodus 22:25

That issue was settled at the Cross and then at the Jerusalem council. Acts 15

Are you also still without understanding? Matthew 15:16
---lee1538 on 2/4/12


Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey, whether of sin unto death, or of OBEDIENCE unto righteousness?

God's grace is what removes us from being under the condemnation of the law. He died for our sin. Now what? Do we not keep the law of God because God has taken our death. The death which we deserve for breaking His laws? Because we understand and appreciate the death of God for our sin, we no longer live in sin. That is: because we accept his grace we OBEY THE LAW
---francis on 2/4/12


Every single person who acceps christ as saviour OBEYS THE 10 COMMANDMENTS.
It is the nature of the born again person to keep the commandments of God. By his death on the cross, jesus took our death, removing us from being under the curse of the law (DEATH).
Jesus made it posible for us to partake of the divine nature. The divine nature is spiritual and is contrary to the trangression of the law. In other words, for the christian sin (NOT OBEYING THE LAW) is unnatural, it is not in his new nature.

Being under the law means you are subject to death for BREAKING the law.

IF we obey the laws of God, and keep the the commandments, we not subject to death. By this we show love for God and Love for our neighbour
---francis on 2/4/12


Read These Insightful Articles About Franchises


"For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake." Titus: 10,11

"For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly, neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter, whose praise is not of men, but of God."
Romans 2:25,28.29
---christan on 2/4/12


---Haz27, Your definations are dead wrong

UNDER LAW does not mean obeying the law. It refers to those who have not accepted the grace of God. The grace of God being that Jesus has taken our death. Those under the law have not accepted christ death for their own, hence they are still subject to death for their sins.

Under the law also refers to a time period before the death of jesus

LAW OF SIN AND DEATH is not the ten commandments.
It is a principle which states that because of SIN man must DIE. It is illustrated in the OT sanctuary by the killing of a lamb for our sins.

Jesus took our death, freeing us from the law of sin and death. We no longer have to die for our sin, christ died for us
---francis on 2/4/12


Francis //If I become circumcised or observe the Jewish Sabbath, am I under the law?

Yes, since these OT laws are found ONLY in the Old Covenant, but the Christian is not under the OT laws.

Moral law,however, is obligatory to all people as it is something that is inherent in their nature.
---lee1538 on 2/4/12


Francis: To answer if those commandments you listed is being under the law, we need to see where your coming from.
Francis said:
"Those who choose to live in sin, cannot be suprised at their fate in the late of fire. (Blog: What is lord of Sabbath)
Can a person go to Heaven no matter how they act, post-profession of Christ? NO NO NO (Blog: Confessing Christians go to Heaven).

Clearly works of the law is integral to your righteousness/salvation. So to answer your question, YES, it's under law.

Consider the foolish Galatians. Gal 3:2,3

Then consider Paul (Phil 3) who saw his righteousness through law as "DUNG" in comparison to gaining righteousness which is of God by faith.



---Haz27 on 2/4/12


Read These Insightful Articles About Lead Generation


StrongAxe on 2/4/12
Read my posts again Notice I NEVER say that christians should be physically circumcised.

I mentioned what physical circumcision taught the believer about the circumcision of the heart.
---fraancis on 2/4/12


Rom 7:21-23 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the LAW OF GOD after the inward man: But I see ANOTHER LAW in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

The law of sin and death is the principle by which the carnal, sinful nature wars against the Ten Commandment Law of God.


---jerry6593 on 2/4/12


francis,
it is really unfair to ask Haz 5 questions in one post because it would take 6-7 posts to adequately answer. That means he would have to be selective, with brevity.
*****

6 or 7 posts to answer!!!!!

in effect what you are stating is there is THAT MUCH reasoning to disobey and live life like exactly like the wicked???

Christ WARNED many would say HIS name in vain and would be FAR from HIM because many would continue to live like the wicked and be sold by false ministers they have a LICENSE to sin "in christ"

True believers understand Rom 8:2 does not IMPLY one can now FREELY sin
---Rhonda on 2/4/12


francis:

It depends on WHY you do those things. If you do so because of "thou shalt not", you are under the law of Moses. If you do so because "you love God with all your heart, mind, and spirit", you're under the grace of Christ. If you do so because your church commands it, you're under the law of the Church. If you do so because the state commands it, you're under the law of the State.
---StrongAxe on 2/4/12


Read These Insightful Articles About Mortgages


---James_L on 2/4/12
I think he can easily answer:

1: If you honour your father and mother YOUR ARE / ARE NOT under the law?

2: If You do not take God's name in vain, YOUR ARE / ARE NOT under the law

3: 4 examples of what the law "saith to them who are under the law."
1: yadi yadi yada 2: yadi Yadi yada 3: yadi yadi yada 4: yadi yadi yada

4: The difference between being " Under the law" and " Obeying the ten commandments?"
Under the law means yadi yadi yada
Under grace measn yadi yadi yada

5: A christian who is under grace CAN/ CANNOT make graven images to worship, and CAN/ CANNOT covet his neighbours wife?

That is all I need
---francis on 2/4/12


Haz, I have not promoted being under Law! Why do you keep on about it?

We should not build doctrine's on 1 Scripture. 1John3:9 must be viewed via 1 John 2:1 as it speaks to the situation "My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous."

So we do sin (which is breaking God's Law)but Jesus is our advocate. An advocate speaks on the accused's part via the accused's instruction. Therefore it appears we (saved by grace) do sin, and will be forgiven but only if we repent and seek forgiveness. Or are you saying our sins are continually washed away without our first being repentant?
---Warwick on 2/4/12


Warwick: Under the law the whole world is guilty before God Rom3:19.
Even just ONE transgression makes you guilty of ALL. James 2:10.

Thank God for His grace. Now, Christians are NOT under the law and where there is NO LAW there is NO TRANSGRESSION (SIN) Rom4:15 Jesus truly set us FREE FROM SIN John8:36. Hence 1John3:9 says we "CANNOT sin".

But we all know Christians fail to live perfect lives. King David's adultery and murder is worse than the adulterous pastor example you gave. God disciplined him though, as he does us. Christians don't profit from doing wrong.
More importantly though, we should NOT go under the law like the foolish Galatians.



---Haz27 on 2/4/12


francis,
it is really unfair to ask Haz 5 questions in one post because it would take 6-7 posts to adequately answer. That means he would have to be selective, with brevity.

Then all you're going to do is accuse him of dodging whatever part he didn't treat with fulness. It has happened to me, and it feels like being sucker punched.


As for your questions, I have answered #4 for you before. There is no difference between obeying the ten commandments and being under the Law. You should not obey any written Law - you should obey the Spirit, which prompts you from the inside.
---James_L on 2/4/12


Read These Insightful Articles About Personal Loans


---Haz27 on 2/3/12
Please help me to understand what you are saying better by answeringa few questions for me.

1: If I honour my father and my mother am I under the law?

2: If I do not take God's name in vain, am I under the law?

3: Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law.
Give me 4 examples of what the law "saith to them who are under the law."

4: What is the difference between being " Under the law" and " Obeying the ten commandments?"

5: Can a christian who is under grace make graven images to worship, or covet his neighbours wife?
---francis on 2/4/12


francis:

Genesis 17:11 specifically commands the circumcision of the foreskin. Paul specificially says that Christians SHOULD NOT follow this commandment. You said that we should.

Deuteronomy 10:16 speaks of circumcision of the "foreskin of the heart" (i.e. this is NOT physical circumcision), and Colossians 2:11 speaks of the "circumcision made without hands", i.e. the same thing. This is a totally different issue, and not relevant to this point, which is, are Christians commanded to be circumcised of the foreskin.
---StrongAxe on 2/4/12


Warwick, you said,

"I agree "Grace is not a licence to do wrong.." But that raises the question, how do we know what wrong is other than reference to the Law?"

As believers by faith, by the Spirit of the Law.

Unbelievers, by the written law.
You speak as if the believer has no Spirit. As if he is still under the Law. And also forget we are not saved by any merits of our own. It is all of Grace.
---Mark_V. on 2/4/12


Haz, thank you for your explanation.

I agree "Grace is not a licence to do wrong.." But that raises the question, how do we know what wrong is other than reference to the Law? Why are theft, adultery, and having other gods wrong? Because God's Law says so. Therefore we, those already saved by grace, definitely have no licence to do wrong, to break the Commandments. And when we do 1 John 2:1 speaks to the situation "My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous." BUT what happens if we do sin, and dont seek forgiveness? Or do you say we are automatically forgiven for our sins, without asking?
---Warwick on 2/3/12


Read These Insightful Articles About Auto Insurance


What you said directly contradicts what Paul taught.
---StrongAxe on 2/3/
It does not contradict at all.
Genesis 17:11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin, and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

Deuteronomy 10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

Colossians 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Notice that I did not say we need to be circumcised. i gave an understanding of what circumcision taught the believer. reread my post and see that it is the same as paul taught about circumcision in Colossians 2:11
---francis on 2/3/12


francis:

You said: All the OT laws are applicable to christians.
EXAMPLE: The law of circumcision of the foreskin, is very applicable ...


1 Corinthians 7:18
"Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised."

Galatians 5:2
"Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing."

Colossians 3:11
"Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all."

What you said directly contradicts what Paul taught. So, whom should we believe? Paul, or francis?
---StrongAxe on 2/3/12


Francis: Correct, sin is transgression of the law.
But note Rom3:19: What the law says it says to those UNDER IT .

1John3:8 those who sin are of the devil. This refers to those UNDER the law. Being under the law they make themselves transgressors (Gal 2:18).
It is to these people Heb 10:26 warns if you "continue to sin wilfully" (remain under law and transgress it even ONCE, James 2:10)

1John3:9 those born of God cannot sin. This refers to Christians. They're NOT under law (Gal 5:18, Rom 6:14, 1Tim 1:9, Rom 8:2). Where there is NO LAW there is NO TRANSGRESSION Rom 4:15.
It's Christ's obedience God sees in us. We're righteous, holy/sanctified/perfected,butONLY in him. Believe on Jesus.





---Haz27 on 2/3/12


Are all laws found in the Old Covenant, applicable to the Christian?
---lee1538 on 2/3/12

All the OT laws are applicable to christians.
EXAMPLE: The law of circumcision of the foreskin, is very applicable because it teaches us of the law of circumcision of the heart whcih is not made by hands. It is applicable to teach the removal of the flesh (Carnal mind).

The law of the earthly sanctuary is very applicable because it is a schoolmaster teaching us the plan of redeemption: that the lamb of God would die for our sins, that the high priest of God would cleans us from our sins.

The ten commandments are very important to christians because it teaches us love for God and love for our neighbour. Also tells us what sin is
---francis on 2/3/12


Read These Insightful Articles About Holidays


Francis //1 John 3:4 for sin is the transgression of the law.

Are all laws found in the Old Covenant, applicable to the Christian?

Do we sin when we do not obey a law that was fulfilled by the ministry of Christ as was the Sabbath?

Or is the Christian simply to obey laws that are moral in nature, ie. those that involve ones neighbor?
---lee1538 on 2/3/12


It is very important that when we try to communicate that we are talking about the same thing/s.

1: Are we talking about
A: the sacrificial/earthly priesthood laws "I will have mercy, and not sacrifice"-christan on 2/1/12
OR B: "..the circumcision law.." ---lee1538 on 2/2/12
OR C: "the ten commandemnts."--francis on 2/1/12

2: I want to avoud missunderstanding:
When someone says " we are not under law." I want to be sure what they mean.
Do they mean we are not required to keep the ten commandments because we are under grace, or do they mean that we are not under the condemnation of the law ( whcih is death) since Jesus took our death thus saving us from death by his grace
---francis on 2/3/12


francis:

You posted the same exact list here three times on the same day. Are you sure yet?
---Strongaxe on 2/3/12


---StrongAxe on 2/2/12
The reason I posted the list:

Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image..Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them:
Exodus 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain, Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exodus 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother:
Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.
Exodus 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Exodus 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.
Exodus 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness.
Exodus 20:17 Thou shalt not covet

I just want to be sure that we are all talking about the exact same thing
---francis on 2/2/12


Read These Insightful Articles About Health Insurance


francis:

One does not need Exodus to tell us to keep a whole list of commandments. If you "love God with all your heart, mind, and soul", you won't have other gods before him, you won't take his name in vain, etc. If you "love your neighbor as yourself", you won't kill him, rob him, sleep with his wife, or lie about him.

Even if you had never heard of Exodus, you would refrain from those things because they are WRONG, without needing to be specifically forbidden from each one.
---StrongAxe on 2/2/12


---Mark_V. on 2/2/12
Help me to understand you better. Are you tell me that you do not keep any of these commandments because you are under grace and not law?

Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image..Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them:
Exodus 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain, Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exodus 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother:
Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.
Exodus 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Exodus 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.
Exodus 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness.
Exodus 20:17 Thou shalt not covet
---francis on 2/2/12


francis, you say, "help me understand" you've been told yet you still do not understand. What else can anyone do? They give you the Word of God and you do not understand. I'm giving you a passage from the Old T. from Moses, the way you do many times, to tell you why you do not understand. After telling Israel of all that He had done for them and all they had seen,
"Yet the Lord has not given you a heart to perceive and eyes to see and ears to hear, to this very day" (Deut. 29:4) God has to do that. Without the help of God you can never understand.
It is God who brings life, changes the heart, so that we not only understand but love Christ, He makes us see and hear spiritual matters. We've done all we can.
---Mark_V. on 2/2/12


"help me to understand you better. Are you tell me that you do not keep any of these commandments because you are under grace and not law?" francis

I struggle everyday to keep the law but I'm already saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, believing in the blessed assurance of salvation. I fully subscribe to "For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do." Romans 7:14,19

For you, Romans 7 does not apply in your life. That's why you always preach "do the law or you will loose your salvation", isn't it? And if that's the case, I assure you that's not grace but works.
---christan on 2/2/12


Read These Insightful Articles About Christian Dating


Francis - you should consider concentrating on that commandment found in Exodus 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness.

And it is a false witness that you bear when you tell others they must observe the Jewish Sabbath as it is a command NOT found in the New Covenant.

It is much like the circumcision law, neither was mandated to Gentile believers.

When will you find yourself in the truth?
---lee1538 on 2/2/12


-christan, help me to understand you better. Are you tell me that you do not keep any of these commandments because you are under grace and not law?

Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image..Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them:
Exodus 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain, Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exodus 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother:
Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.
Exodus 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Exodus 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.
Exodus 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness.
Exodus 20:17 Thou shalt not covet
---francis on 2/2/12


\\francis, you may fool many people about "keeping the law" according to your gospel. \\

That's because SDA has a form of Godliness, but denies its power.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/2/12


francis, you may fool many people about "keeping the law" according to your gospel. Quoting Matthew 19:17,18 to give the impression that unless one keeps the law, he's not going to heaven is far from what Christ teaches in that chapter. You're like the serpent in the garden.

You're like the young man Christ was talking to, thinking that he will get to heaven by obeying the law until he was told to give up everything and follow Christ. Did he? Did you? But is that the teaching of Matthew 19? No! The teaching is found in verses 25 & 26,

"With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

Stop hiding behind grace with your legalistic ways or as Christ declares, worker of iniquity!
---christan on 2/2/12


Read These Insightful Articles About Health Treatments


Francis //Or are we just content to do as we please and say we have not sinned
---
So will you continue to light a fire in your home on the Sabbath - Exodus 35:3.

Many of the OT laws not found within the NT, are NOT applicable to the Christian. Such is the observance of the Jewish Sabbath. Romans 14 gives us the freedom to observe any day or none at all and Colossians 2 tells us not to judge others in regard to a sabbath or what we eat.

If these stritly Jewish laws were appliable to the Christian we would MOST CERTAINLY see them commanded in the NT and taught in the early church. But we do not.

I am convinced you are wrong in your belief Christians are under these OT laws.
---lee1538 on 2/2/12


Was this what God demanded of the sinner to be saved? ---christan on 2/1/12
Matthew 19:17 And Jesus said unto him..if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Matthew 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness

Understanding the relationship between grace and sin is very important

All have sinned ( disobeyed the law) and thus deserve death.

But God by His grace has granted us life where we deserve death for our sins.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Or are we just content to do as we please and say we have not sinned
---francis on 2/2/12


"...all refuse to keep the 4th commandments and teach others to do the same." francis

Not only are you a legalist but a very foolish one at that. Refuse to keep the 4th commandment? Isn't there 10 plus 1,500 others? Did God say keep only the 4th or is it you? James declared, "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all." James 2:10. Seems you don't offend one point but nine!!!!

"I keep ALL TEN and teach men to do so."

Was this what God demanded of the sinner to be saved? Jesus declared, "I will have mercy, and not sacrifice" Matthew 9:13.

I rather your teach grace than "teach men to do so."
---christan on 2/1/12


---christan on 2/1/12
Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

On these blogs do I teach men to keep ALL TEN COMMANDMENTS?

Do you teach men to keep ALL TEN INCLUDING THE 4th?

I keep ALL TEN and teach men to do so. Should i ever fall short, i do not claim that it is not sin, I confess and God forgives.

On the other hand people like you, leej, mark_v, haz all refuse to keep the 4th commandments and teach others to do the same.

Can you see the differentce?
---francis on 2/1/12


Read These Insightful Articles About Affiliate Program


francis, did I say you should be on the side of grace 100% and break God's laws? As long as I'm in the flesh, there's no way I'll be able to not sin against God, and Paul himself suffered this very struggle when he wrote Romans 7.

Do you even read what you quote from Matthew 5:19? Here, let me help, Christ declared "Whosoever therefore shall break one...". Are you saying you have not even broken one of God's ten commandments "after you have been saved by grace 100%"? Really?

I say this, you have not experience grace from God yet if you continue to preach that a Christian can lose his salvation if he does not keep God's commandments. There's nothing more wicked to God than a gospel like yours.
---christan on 2/1/12


francis, I choose the lowest form. for I choose Christ. I refuse to choose the law. ---Mark_V. on 2/1/12
You are only fooling yourself

You cannot choose christ and not keep the ten commandemnts.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, and the faith of Jesus.

Christ REMNANT, CHRIST SAINTS are those who KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD and have FAITH in Jesus

You cannot claim faith in Jesus and not keep his commandments and call yourself a christain.
---francis on 2/1/12


francis, I choose the lowest form. for I choose Christ. I refuse to choose the law. How about you? who do you choose? Seems pretty clear you choose the law. Good luck. Oh, wait a minute, believers do not believe in luck fate or chance, so I will say, I feel bad for you.
---Mark_V. on 2/1/12


---christan on 2/1/12

I am asking to choose your side: Do you choose to be on the side of those lowest forms of life who break the commandments of God and teach men to do so, or will you be on the side of the great ones who keep the commandments of Gdo and teach men to do so.

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the LOWEST FORM OF LIFE BY THOSE in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called GREAT BY THOSE in the kingdom of heaven.

I choose to be on the side of those who accept 100% grace and keep the commandments of God and teach men to do so.

what is your choice?
---francis on 2/1/12


Read These Insightful Articles About Abortion Facts


francis, when you say "PICK YOUR SIDE", are you asking one to stand by the side of 100% grace or 100% law? Mind you, there's no such a thing as 100% grace plus 50% law or vice-versa. It's either you're on the side of grace or law 100%.

And if you want to choose the side of the law 100%, be aware that Paul warns, "For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression." Romans 4:14,15

As for me, I am standing right behind Christ 100% by His grace. And that's because He has given me His precious gift call Faith.
---christan on 2/1/12


francis, you preach the Old T. law to everyone that every time you see a blog you think people want to teach they should not keep the Ten Commandments. You are so rapped up in the Law you cannot see clear. No one has preach to break the law. Not one person. So please, stop making those comments and accusations, they only come from Adventist and Jehovah Witnesses most of the times. At least be an honest guy.
---Mark_V. on 2/1/12


The Law in the OT is like a fence around a playground. God wants you to have fun in the playground with God. The fence is there to protect us from the "road and cars" (bad consequences) on the other side of the playground. However being who we are we want to see the other side of the fence because God said "don't jump the fence." The problem then arises that someone decides that the fence that God built is not high enough so they built another higher fence. This repeats a couple of times then the playground is a cage and not a place of enjoyment.
---Scott1 on 2/1/12


I get it. Everyone gets it

This is just another blog by LEEJ to tell people that they do not have to keep the ten commandments.

They can worship other gods
They can make idols to worship
They can take God's name in vain
They do not have to keep the sabbath
They do not have to honour father and mother
They can murder
They can commit adultery
They can steal
They can lie
They can covet

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the LOWEST FORM OF LIFE BY THOSE in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called GREAT BY THOSE in the kingdom of heaven.


PICK YOUR SIDE
---francis on 1/31/12


Read These Insightful Articles About Acne Treatment


Francis said: "Law of SIN and DEATH simple means that who ever sins deserve death, but Jesus has taken that death for us."

Francis forgot to mention Jesus set us FREE from SIN (John 8:36, Rom 6:7, Rom 6:18).

The law of Spirit of life in Christ Jesus SETS FREE from the law of sin and death. Rom 8:2

"The law is NOT MADE for the righteous man (Christians), but for.....the ungodly and sinner..." 1Tim 1:9

And we know that "whatever the law says it says to those UNDER IT" Rom 3:19

But SDA's keep themselves under the law in spite of Christ setting people free from it. Thus SDA's make themselves transgressors (sinners) and frustrate God's grace Gal 2:18-21.
---Haz27 on 1/31/12


Christian is right. God doesn't give a hoot about our obedience or good works. God sees them all as filthy rags. So in order for us to imitate God, we must view anything good someone does for us as a filthy rag and hate it as much as God does.
---John.usa on 1/31/12


christan//And yet there are those foolish ones who continue to believe they will be justified by the law if they obey God.
---
And such is Adventism as they believe the evidence of salvation is obedience to the 10 commandments - SDA Fundamental Article 19.

In effect they place the believer back under the law contending that grace is only a provision that enables one to obey the law and thus merit eternal salvation.

They truly fail to understand that if they do not keep all the law all the time, they will be held guilty if they trespass any of the law no matter how minor. James 2:10
---lee1538 on 1/31/12


Copyright© 1996-2015 ChristiaNet®. All Rights Reserved.