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Loyal Christians To Israel

Can someone please explain why we as Christians have to be perfectly loyal to Israel at all times? I just really need to know--biblical answers preferably, thanks and God bless.

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The question as stated is a bit absolute. I know many "christian" people, and some Jews, who would not say someone has to "be perfectly loyal to Israel at all times."

On the contrary they have many suggestions for Israel.

However, if the question is, should people support Israel? Kathr answered very well.
---Rod4Him on 6/18/12


Proverbs 24 17
Do not rejoice when your enemy falls, And do not let your heart be glad when he stumbles, 18Or the LORD will see it and be displeased, And turn His anger away from him.

Mary, knowing Romans 9 Israel's past, Romans 10, Israel's present and Romans 11 Israel's future, Zechariah 12-14 Isaiah 14, Ezekiel 36...yet future for Israel, that God certainly will deal with Israel, as promised in His Word.

Our loyalty is to God's plan and purpose concerning these things. HOW God goes about it, as Israel is still GODS regardless, is not for us to judge.

Anti-semitic thought here is when one actually believes God is finished with Israel, and their self-righteous attitudes get in the way of His final plan.
---kathr4453 on 6/16/12


Mary, just one last note. Recall Paul's heart concerning Israel. He said he would gladly be accursed so that Israel would be saved. What LOVE. Yet these very Jews killed/persecuted Paul too.

Was Paul speaking out of emotion because he was a Jew, or was Paul speaking in the Power of the Love of God, which goes beyond our emotions?

Either way, Paul was speaking as a man already saved.

Love your enemies. We love them because God loves them.

Also remember God said, Concerning Israel specifically, I will bless those who bless you, and curse those who curse you...and we can see down through out history how very true that is/was and will be.
---kathr4453 on 6/16/12


There are also those who cry, "anti-antisemitism!" if you speak out against any "Jew".

If that is true, then Jesus was anti-Semitic.

It is the same logic that those who claim racism because I speak out about a man and his actions and not his skin color.
---aka on 6/9/12

Wisdom. Wisdom is never popular though. An irony in itself.

Isaiah 45:25
In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

Strange isn't it...that Israel composed of twelve, actually thirteen is only recognized/promoted/preached as one. Hmmmmm
---trav on 6/15/12


Trav, you make it sound like there is another New Covenant in the future just for Israel. The New Covenant is already here.
.....Israel has rejected the Messiah.
---Mark_V. on 4/15/12

Never implied,said or otherwise. You interpret to suit your crumbly doctrine.

Judah,(your chosen people...not mine) did reject Christ and still do today. 2,000yrs later. Judah, being 1/12th, does not compose all of Israel.
Israel sheep you are blind too, and about, accepted and therefore you and I were exposed. Some to your hazy teaching version and doctrine of.
---Trav on 6/9/12




I can't believe the anti-semitism on these blogs.
---Jed on 6/9/12

why so surprised?

there are Pharisees and Sadducee that have lineage in one of the 12 nations but they are not of the Lord. Remember who Jesus says their father is?

There are also those who cry, "anti-antisemitism!" if you speak out against any "Jew".

If that is true, then Jesus was anti-Semitic.

It is the same logic that those who claim racism because I speak out about a man and his actions and not his skin color.
---aka on 6/9/12


\\I can't believe the anti-semitism on these blogs.
---Jed on 6/9/12\\

What antisemitism?

If you think that Jews in general, or Israel as a whole can do no wrong, you've clearly not read the Bible carefully.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/9/12


I can't believe the anti-semitism on these blogs.
---Jed on 6/9/12


....Because they do not fear Me' Says the Lord of hosts. For I am the Lord, I do not change" (Malachi 3:5,6).

Not all Israel will be saved.
---Mark_V. on 2/5/12

Again, you attemt to teach when reading mutely would be the safe route for a "believer".
You would change GOD instead of changing yourself. "all Israel" is found 662 times in this terminolgy. But, then who can hear this many witnesses and percieve? Heb8:8 says...."and Judah".
Romans 11:26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
---trav on 6/9/12


Strongaxe, God did make a covenant with those people, it was a covenant of works of obedience, but Israel broke the covenant. They could not keep it. Thats why there was no salvation for Israel under that covenant. So God made a better covenant through Christ Jesus who kept the Law fully for us who believe by faith. Everyone who died without faith in God, in the Old Testament or the New Testament, who rejected Him and did evil against Him will not be forgiven. We are only forgiven in this Physical life. Once a person dies, there is no more second chances. Not all Israel is Israel. Only those who are spiritual sons of Abraham will be saved. They are from the true Seed, Christ Jesus.
---Mark_V. on 2/7/12




New Testament tells us Jesus fulfilled what Israel could not.
If you are right, all the Jews from Israel who died through history rejecting Christ will go to heaven.
****

Christ fulfilled the role of the messenger of Gods Kingdom and HE will inherit all things when HE RETURNS

Israel was not meant to "fulfill anything" Christ simply came to announce Gods coming Kingdom the fulfillment happens when GODS Kingdom is restored on earth

as for people who died and rejected Christ you must believe many billions of people through history not receive salvation and this theory directly contradicts Holy Scripture which STATES it is GOD who wants ALL to receive salvation
---Rhonda on 2/6/12


Cluny:

It doesn't give them "special spiritual standing". However, a contract is a contract, and God made a covenant with Israel (i.e. physical descendents of physical patriarchs).

Also, that contract is not somehow magically made null and void. Paul said that if a foreign branch grafted onto the tree is legitimate, how much more so if the ORIGINAL branches are grafted back to the original tree (or words to that affect - I can't recall the original chapter+verse, so I can't quote it accurately).
---StrongAxe on 2/6/12


\\Romans 9:6
... For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel...//

I think American dispensationalists frequently forget that the modern state of Israel was founded by and is full of people who would be called "lost" if they lived anywhere else than that plot of real estate in the Middle East.

Why does their present residence give them special spiritual standing with God?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/6/12


//Since the entity existed, then ceased to exist, and now exists again, it is legitimate to use the word "return".//
---StrongAxe on 2/5/12

following that logic, if one claims to be a Jew but isn't, he is a Jew whether or not he has the legitimate authority to say so.

btw, i do agree that some are returning to a land that was once theirs but they are not returning to God given nation. it does not exist yet.
---aka on 2/5/12


Trav, as to the answers I gave, I want you to know that Scripture is clear about what happens to those Jews are Gentiles at Judgment Day who are wicked and reject the Lord:

"And I will come near you for Judgment, I will be a swiff witness against Sorcerers, Against adulterers, Against perjurers, Against those who explit wage earners and widows and orphans, And against those who turn away an alien, Because they do not fear Me' Says the Lord of hosts. For I am the Lord, I do not change" (Malachi 3:5,6).
Not all Israel will be saved.
---Mark_V. on 2/5/12


aka:

A political entity, consisting primarily of people from the tribe of Judah (plus a few from other tribes) existed from millenia past, until around 70AD, then was disbanded by Rome. Another political entity consisting of the same people was legitimized in 1948 by the United Nations.

Whether Rome or the U.N. have the authority to legitimize or de-legitimize such entities is beside the point, they had the physical power to do so, and they did so.

Since the entity existed, then ceased to exist, and now exists again, it is legitimate to use the word "return".
---StrongAxe on 2/5/12


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strongaxe, what is the issue? yes, there are descendents of all 12 tribes of Israel, one of which is the tribe of Judah. to Jesus, there seems to be a qualifier of the descendents of Judah... those physically and those physically and spiritually.

and as far as returning, one cannot return to something that does not exist yet. the UN forced Israel may be on some of the land that God promised and call it Israel, but that dos not make it the Israel of God.
---aka on 2/5/12


aka:

I didn't say anything about "jews circumcised in the heart". I said "Jews" i.e. physical descendants of the tribe of Judah who lived in the land of Judea 2000 years ago, and were scattered after Titus sacked Jerusalem in 70 A.D., and many of whom have returned in the past century.
---StrongAxe on 2/5/12


Cluny, I don't know what side of the bed you woke up in but you did say,
"You mean it finally sunk in, not that God revealed it to YOU.
"

As if I had just understood what the word of God say's about Israel. I understood a long time ago. You could have given something you know to edify others but instead decided to attack me. You want to change the subject, just put another blog.
---Mark_V. on 2/5/12


Trav, I'm sorry to hear you object Jesus fulfilling the Old Testament Scriptures concerning Israel. You said,
"One could rephrase the above to "Marks" interpretation this this is what Paul says. Scripture does not bear him out,"
What I gave was Scripture of the fulfillment through Christ. There were over 2,000 passages from the Old. T. but the New Testament tells us Jesus fulfilled what Israel could not.
If you are right, all the Jews from Israel who died through history rejecting Christ will go to heaven. Not Scriptural. Only those who have a circumcize heart are the real children of Abraham. Those of the flesh are not. John the Baptist knew this when he spoke to the Pharises and Sadducees in (Matt. 3:7-10).
---Mark_V. on 2/5/12


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//The nation of Israel today is formed primarily of Jews//

StrongAxe, the UN-formed nation of Israel is formed primarily of Israelis.

there are jews that live in the today's Israel as well as those who are scattered abroad. that does not mean that jews circumcised in the heart are home. Mat 8:20..."Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head."

Do you think the UN and the UN created Israel is trying to make the Messiah that they reject comfortable today?
---aka on 2/4/12


Rod4him 2: Paul says, there are two Israels. ---Mark_V. on 2/3/12

One could rephrase the above to "Marks" interpretation this this is what Paul says.

Scripture does not bear him out,when one applies over 2,000 mentions in scripture by name. Additionally unifying hundreds of mentions by mark, and sign names. Markv lone witness is not enough.
GOD loved this people enough to marry them. Divorce them. and remarry them. Heb 8:8. The faith it takes to believe GOD is a just,fair and all knowing GOD is hard for some.
---trav on 2/4/12


\\Cluny, did you read my post correctly? I did not say God just revealed it to me. \\

MarkV, did you read my post correctly? I did not say that it was just revealed to you.

\\It was revealed to me almost twenty five years ago, and not by anyone writer from the Orthodox, it was by studying the Word. \\

And you think Orthodox scholars don't study the Word? Or that it is just to YOU the word of God came?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/4/12


aka:

Israel referred to all physical descendents of Jacob (plus a few foreigners who had grafted themselves in by conversion and/or marriage), whether they were righteous or wicked.

The nation of Israel today is formed primarily of Jews, the remnant of those same people thousands of years later.
---StrongAxe on 2/3/12


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Rod4him 2: Paul says, there are two Israels. Paul wrote "They are not all Israel who are of Israel" (Rom. 9:6) here we also discover that there is an "Israel after the flesh" (1 Cor. 10:18) and an "Israel of God" (Gal. 6:16), composed of both Jews and Gentiles who have personal faith in Jesus Christ, God's Messiah. He then says, " Just as Abrahm 'believed God' and it was accounted to him for righteousness, therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham" (Gal. 3:6,7). Paul's is saying, because Abraham was a man of faith, only those who have faith are his spiritual children. Those who are without faith from the line of Abraham are children after the flesh.
---Mark_V. on 2/3/12


Rod4him, after reading Genesis and Exodus, the name "Israel" not only referred to one victorious man, Jacob, but also to his descendants, who became Israel. The same principle is revealed in the New Testament. After Paul called Jesus the "Seed," In (Gal. 3:16) he wrote that Abraham's seed does not refer to "many" but to one.. who is Christ, Paul tells his Gentiles converts, "And if you are Christ, then you are Abraham's seed" (Gal.3:29). Thus in the New T., the name Israel not only applies to the One Victorious Man, the true Seed, Jesus Christ, but also to those who belong to Christ. Believers in Jesus are infused into the "Seed" and become part of God's Spiritual Israel.
---Mark_V. on 2/3/12


strongeax and rod4him...

was Samuel concerned with man's manipulation of Israel or the Israel of God?

were the prophets told to be concerned about God's Israel or Israel of man (who was eventually divorced by God.)

In 1948, we were given Israel...man's Isreal...(a wicked seed (UN) cannot produce good fruit.) When Jesus returns, he will present a New Jerusalem to replace the false Israel of then and now.
---aka on 2/3/12


aka:

Look at ancient Israel. ALL the kings of the kingdom of Israel were corrupt. Yet that didn't stop them from being Israel.
---StrongAxe on 2/2/12


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//Israels Former President Katsav Got Seven Years for Rape. Since 2008, Israeli courts have indicted former.../

And King David committed adultery with his military advisor's granddaughter,and then killed her husband, and then married the granddaughter.

Consequently, that reasoning doesn't reason out.

However, one question is, assuming there is an Israel, "who is Israel?" The government, the ultra-orthodox, Jews by birth, religious jews, or Messianic Jews?

I haven't heard of any Christian saying one has to be "perfectly loyal to Israel at all times," although sometimes that seems to be the impression some give.
---Rod4Him on 2/2/12


Cluny, did you read my post correctly? I did not say God just revealed it to me. Or that He revealed it to my yesterday or last month. In fact, It was revealed to me almost twenty five years ago, and not by anyone writer from the Orthodox, it was by studying the Word.
What was revealed to me from the Orthodox leaders from the RCC were false traditions, words added to Scripture to teach their own doctrines and meaning, worshipping idols, and purgatory. So no, I did not just find out from God, it was revealed to me a long time ago.
---Mark_V. on 2/2/12


\\Mary, this was revealed to me concerning Israel. \\

Orthodox writers have been pointing out these things for centuries.

You mean it finally sunk in, not that God revealed it to YOU.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/2/12


The present secular socialist modern nation in the middle east called Israel has nothing to do with the Israel of the Bible, or the true spiritual Israel, which is the Church.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/2/12


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Mary, this was revealed to me concerning Israel.
When God introduced Israel, He was forming a picture of Jesus Christ His Son. For what was revealed of Israel was fulfilled in Christ.
1. Israel passed through the red sea, and spend 40 years in the wilderness. Jesus was baptized in the Jordan, He was led by the Spirit into the wilderness for 40 days (Matt. 4:1-3).
2. God's "Servant" in the original context was Israel (Isaiah 41:8) again the first writer of the New T. said that Isaiah 42:1-3) was being 'fulfilled by God's "Servant" "Jesus Christ."
3. Psalm 80:8) Israel was called a "vine." Yet Jesus Christ declared "I am the vine" (John 15:1).
---Mark_V. on 2/2/12


Mary 2:
4. God referred to the nation of Israel as "My son, My firstborn" (Ex. 4"22) yet Paul later called our Messiah "the Firstborn over all creation" (Col. 1:15).
5. The prophet Isaiah clearly called Israel "the seed of Abraham" (Isaiah 41:8) Yet Paul wrote, "Now to Abraham and his "Seed" were the promises made. He does not say, "and to seeds" as of many, but as of one, "And to your Seed" who is Christ (Gal. 3:16) So many more that space doesn't allow.
What does this mean? It means that Jesus was repeating the history of Israel, point by point, and was overcoming where they had failed. Christ was showing Himself to be the primary Israel, the Prince of God.
---Mark_V. on 2/2/12


All Israel is not Israel
---James_L on 2/1/12

Israels Former President Katsav Got Seven Years for Rape. Since 2008, Israeli courts have indicted former Prime Minister Ehud Olmert for fraud, sentenced former Finance Minister Avraham Hirschson to five years imprisonment for theft and money laundering, and convicted former Health Minister Shlomo Benizri of taking bribes.

if you believe that the Israel created by man (the UN) in 1948 is the Israel of God, you are terribly deceived.
---aka on 2/2/12


Eloy,
I agree with you 100% on this issue.

God has cut them off (Rom 11:19-20), and He does not expect more from us then He does from Himself.

God has not forgotten them, and we should not forget them either. We are warned not to become conceited in our standing with God, or we might be cut off, too.

But if the Israelites are unbelievers, then they are the same as Gentile unbelievers. All Israel is not Israel
---James_L on 2/1/12


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Mary, Christians are to be loyal to all people, especially fellow Christians of the household of faith. period. Only the ignorant and the condemned think that the Christians are to extend special loyalties to those living in Israel. Know you not that the Lord Jesus Christ looks upon the heart and the sinner Jew is condemned equally as the sinner Gentile, and that the righteous Gentile is raptured to heaven equally as the righteous Jew? The true Jew from God is the circumcised in heart, and not in the flesh.
---Eloy on 2/1/12


The Bible does say that, whoever blesses them He will bless and whoever curses them He will curse. I think that is the attitude that many American Christians have adopted until recently. Also, many see them as Gods chosen people still.
In His loving grip
---Poppa_Bear on 2/1/12


No one is obliged to support Israel or any other country politically. We are only obliged to obey the laws where we live. If Israelis or the Israeli government do evil, it's okay to call it evil.
---John.usa on 2/1/12


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