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Does Sin Have To Stop

Does any sin have to stop in repentance before mercy can be granted by God?

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 ---Tommy8976 on 2/5/12
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Lee,
WE are to put the deeds of the flesh away? Impossible!!
WE cant do any such thing.
Try all you want, it isnt goin to happen in your life time. Thats why Jesus died and rose, to give you a new life and set you free from sin. The old man flesh has died and will die every day.
Not because of what you do but because of what Jesus has done already.
---calhoon on 2/21/12


David: Gal 2:16 seems to contradict Rom 2:13. ---Haz27 on 2/20/12

Haz
And it does, but why? The answer?
Paul is talking about two different Laws. He is talking about the the Law of Christ in (Romans 2:13) and Law of Moses in (Galations 2:16).
Because of this, Paul appears to be talking out of both sides of his face throughout his letters, and this is why there is so much controversy over Paul's Epistles.

Paul preached to both Jew and Gentile believer. Since the Jews were raised to be under the Law of Moses, he could not teach them in the same manner he taught those (Gentiles) who were never under the Law of Moses.
This is why he said what he says in (1 Corinthians 9:19-21)
---David on 2/21/12


if someone agrees with you, you are fine, but if someone does not, you misquote, throw little cheap shots, and say bizarre things that do not even address the issue.

i am pretty sure that i have witness to this.
---aka on 2/20/12


You are certainly not alone in that! I have seen it many many times myself
---JackB on 2/21/12


1Co 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not, for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Joh 8:11 ... Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.


---jerry6593 on 2/21/12


lee1538, maybe you should read my posts again. I already said similar to you that the flesh battles against the Spirit.
And when I said ONLY ONE can rule you replied with, "Not as clearly as you would like to believe."
Can you clarify, are you saying both flesh and Spirit rule in Christians at the same time?

If so consider Rom 8:9, "But you are NOT IN THE FLESH BUT IN THE SPIRIT".
And Gal 5:24,"they that are Christs have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Clearly only ONE ruling in Christians according to these verses.

And those walking according to the flesh? 2Pet2:9-15, they are "natural brute beasts, made to be... destroyed"








---Haz27 on 2/21/12




Aka, I suppose you don't remember what you said. Here is what you said,

" cannot understand why the 'elite' keep telling us to do this or to understand that...under calvanism WE DO NOT HAVE THAT CHOICE"

In Christianity there is only two sides, those who believe God is Sovereign and those who believe sinful man is sovereign with his free will.
So my answer to you was in answer to what you said, the very reason I lumped you in with the "free willies" as you call them, those who don't like to hear the Truth, and when they do, they whin and slander the messengers, calling us the elite, after been told the Truth.
---Mark_V. on 2/21/12


Jim, it set us free from the law of sin, means we are not under the bondage of the law, that unbelievers are in, there is no condmnation to those in Christ, because we have been set free. It does not mean we can no longer sin. You know that already because you sin just about everyday. But (1 John 1:8) says "if we say that we have no sin, (and that is what you are saying) you deceive yourself and the Truth is not in you"
The Truth is the gospel. And the gospel says, "Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins" (eccl. 7:20), and you say you don't.
---Mark_V. on 2/21/12


//I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin, Rom 7:25
This speaks of WHO rules in you, Spirit OR Flesh.
----
No, I think you are the one that misunderstands.

It is "I" who serves God with the mind, but it is my "flesh" that wages war against my mind.

Ro 7:23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members.

The "I" and the "flesh" are really two entities of the same person, it is the "I" that becames a new creation in Christ.

And if we are to live, we must put to death by the Spirit the deeds of the flesh (8,13).
---lee1538 on 2/20/12


lee1538: You misunderstand.
"I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin, Rom 7:25
This speaks of WHO rules in you, Spirit OR Flesh. It's not about our failings in the physical.
Rom 8:5-9 "For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God, for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the FLESH CANNOT PLEASE GOD.
But you are NOT in the flesh but in the Spirit".

You CAN"T serve 2 masters.
---Haz27 on 2/20/12


JIM////focus on ...the law of the spirit of life has set us free from the law of sin.

(7:25) ESV Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

what are the law of the spirit and the law of sin?

Is not the law that would governs us?

Romans (8:2) For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.

While free from the law of sin & death, we really have a choice to continue to live by the flesh or to live by His Spirit and to do that we need put to death the deeds of the body = Romans 8:13.

Does this help to answer your inquiry?
---lee1538 on 2/20/12




David: Regarding Rom 2:13, consider the following:
"for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified." Gal 2:16
This seems to contradict Rom 2:13. And clearly no Christian is able to PERFECTLY keep the law.
But Jesus did. And it's Christ in us God sees. Jesus is our "inner man" (Rom 7:22) and he delights after the law of God. It's his imputed righteousness that counts as we cannot do it ourselves.

Amongst Christians we see varying improvements in lifestyle after receiving Christ. And when we do wrong we won't profit by it (consider King David's adultery/murder). And God disciplines us in such cases.

But if we start judging righteousness by works of the law then it's NO MORE GRACE. Rom 11:6
---Haz27 on 2/20/12


JIM////focus on ...the law of the spirit of life has set us free from the law of sin.

(7:25) ESV Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

what are the law of the spirit and the law of sin?

Is not the law that would governs us?

Romans (8:2) For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.

While free from the law of sin & death, we really have a choice to continue to live by the flesh or to live by His Spirit and to do that we need put to death the deeds of the body = Romans 8:13.

Does this help to answer your inquiry?
---lee1538 on 2/20/12


Haz27//It CLEARLY speaks of ONLY ONE rules in our lives. You CAN'T have both Spirit and flesh ruling, ...

Not as clearly as you would like to believe.

Ro 7:25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

Ro 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.

Free - no longer a slave but now having the capacity to obey. But total obedience to perfection will not be our while in the flesh. We are enouraged to put to death the deeds of the flesh so that we may live. Romans 8:13

And one does not put to death all the deeds of the flesh instantly.
---lee1538 on 2/20/12


Mark_V Why claim Gal 2:18 speaks NOT of law. Here's Gal 2:16-21.How often is LAW mentioned?
"knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the LAW but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the LAW, for by the works of the LAW no flesh shall be justified.
But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners (transgressors of the LAW 1John3:4),...if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor (1John3:4) For I through the LAW died to the LAW that I might live to God...I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the LAW, then Christ died in vain.
---Haz27 on 2/20/12


Did Eve Use Her Free Will (Sin, 75 Comments & 1 Votes)

Aka, your not hearing. ---markv

funny that you lump me in with free willies because i do not subscribe to Calvinism. i do not believe in that extreme either.

a year.5 ago, i learned quickly not to go around with you. if someone agrees with you, you are fine, but if someone does not, you misquote, throw little cheap shots, and say bizarre things that do not even address the issue.

i am pretty sure that i have witness to this.
---aka on 2/20/12


lee1538: you misunderstand Rom7. And, as JIM pointed out, you should also consider the following scriptures too.

Rom 7 is speaking of a battle within us. Who will win this battle? The Spirit OR Flesh? Note Rom 8:4-10. It CLEARLY speaks of ONLY ONE rules in our lives. You CANT have both Spirit and flesh ruling, which I suspect is your understanding.
And note Rom 8:10, "If Christ be in you the BODY is DEAD because of sin.
We are a NEW creature now IF you continue to walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit.
So EITHER you're Righteous in Christ OR a sinner, 1Pet 4:18. God says you CAN'T be both.
---Haz27 on 2/20/12


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That's not what Paul is talking about in (Gal. 2:18) He was speaking of himself "For if I build again those things which I destroyed"....Mark V

Mark..That is not correct. You are looking at that piece of scripture all wrong. This is refering to Peter and how he went from believing one way and eating with gentiles to sinking back and taking sides with the jews.
---JIM on 2/20/12


Haz, here is another falacy that you have when you believe as you do. You fuel people like the Sda's and Jehovah witnesses in their arguements. Here is David opposing what you are saying because really, what you are declaring is that the bad you now do, is not sin anymore because you are justified. And that seems to say you can sin all you want and it will not be counted against you. And that is wrong because no genuine Christian who is justified through faith in Christ is alone, we have the Spirit of Christ who guides us, changes us. He would not be changing us if we were there already. We wouldn't need the Spirit for sanctification.
---Mark_V. on 2/20/12


Yes, Romans is difficult to understand.

The traditional view is correct that we are sinners saved by grace//...lee1538

lee, I see you stopped at Romans 7:25....Please continue on to chapter 8:1-17. focus on the part that talks about through Jesus Christ, the law of the spirit of life has set us free from the law of sin.
lee...are you familiar with the definition of sinner from a greek stand point>.
Let me ask you this question?
When looking in the mirror do you see a wicked practicing sinner who is devoted to sin or a Child of God.
---JIM on 2/20/12


Yet nowhere does it say a believer does not sin or is not a sinner,// Mark V

Mark...a sinner is always associated with the unrighteous and the ungodly.
Please show where a believer is refered to as a sinner?
---JIM on 2/20/12


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David, because in the first 3 1/2 chapters of Romans , Paul is trying to lay the foundation for ALL of mankinds guilt before God. A point that Paul drives home in Romans 3:20. THEN he goes on in Romans 3:21 to tell us HOW we are made righteous in Gods eyes NOW!

But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets, Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God, Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus
---JackB on 2/20/12


If anyone else thinks he has reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more: circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews, in regard to the law, a Pharisee, as for zeal, persecuting the church, as for legalistic righteousness, faultless. But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in him, NOT having a righteousness of my own from the LAW, but that which is through faith in Christ---the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith.
---JackB on 2/20/12


Haz27//As 1Tim1:13 clearly ... He is no longer blaspheming, etc as a Christian so why would he then refer to himself as (present tense) chief sinner?

he also says -

Ro 7:23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members.

Ro 7:25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

Yes, Romans is difficult to understand.

The traditional view is correct that we are sinners saved by grace, being renewed and transformed into the image of Christ, the end of sanctification, or glorification when we see Christ face to face.
---lee1538 on 2/20/12


Christians are NOT under it. And where there is NO LAW there is NO TRANSGRESSION (SIN) -Haz27

If this is was Paul's meaning, why did he say the following?
(Romans 2:13)
For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in Gods sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

Aren't Christians the ones who being declared righteous?

In (Romans 13:8-10) Paul clearly says you can not break some Law's and say you love your neighbor.
How can you say you love someone if you lie to them, steal from them or kill them?
Jesus gave these same Law's to the Man in (Matthew 19), because they must be kept if you truly love your neighbor.
---David on 2/20/12


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Haz, you have to do better then that to get away from what Paul is talking about. From ( Gal. v.16) Paul three times declares that salvation is only through faith in Christ and not by law. The first is general, "a man is not justified", Second is personal, "we might be justified", the third is universal, "no flesh shall be justified." "Justified" the Grk. word describes a judge declaring an accused person not guilty and therefore innocent before the law. Meaning you are justified through faith in Christ alone. Yet nowhere does it say a believer does not sin or is not a sinner, in fact it says a guilty person is found not guilty. He was not innocent.
---Mark_V. on 2/20/12


lee, it was David who said, "Can someone who sins be declared righteous,"
And it's correct if you understand what sin is.

YOU said "You sin if you break the law"
Yes, IF you're UNDER the law that is.
But Christians are NOT under it. And where there is NO LAW there is NO TRANSGRESSION (SIN), Rom 4:15

If you "sin" then that means one of the following:
1:Your UNDER the law establishing self-righteousness but failing to keep it perfectly.
2:Unbelief in Jesus
3:Unrighteous (an unbeliever therefore without Christ's imputed righteousness)
4:Blaspheming the Holy Spirit

Wages of sin is death which all the above leads to.
But Christians are righteous in Christ (NOT sinners)
---Haz27 on 2/19/12


lee, theres no teasing here. Many others accept this view about sin and many others like you have not heard it before. You follow traditional/cultural views about sin whereas I use God's definitions of sin.
I too found it difficult to break free from the traditional/cultural mindset about sin at first.

Have you noticed that nearly always "sin" is spoken of without reference to God's definitions? Instead it's an ambiguous traditional notion that sin is wrongdoing. Try using God's definitions instead. Then you will see that Jesus truly set us free from sin (John8:36) and we are NOT sinners (1Pet 4:18, 1John3:9)
---Haz27 on 2/19/12


I believe that some sins may be strongholds or deep rooted addictions, and therefore the person needs to pray asking Jesus to help them break away from the sins, and ask Jesus to help them to be an overcomer and to stay free from those sins, and to live daily spending time with Jesus and worship and listening to Christian words and music. And if the tempter comes and puts a thought in your mind to go and do a sin, then right away cut off that thought, and rebuke it and call on Jesus to help you go and do a righteousness instead.
---Eloy on 2/19/12


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lee1538: I disagree with your reading of 1Tim1:15.

As 1Tim1:13 clearly shows Paul was referring to his PAST being a blasphemer, etc. He is no longer blaspheming, etc as a Christian so why would he then refer to himself as (present tense) chief sinner? If the doctrine that Christians remain in sin in spite of the cross were true then Paul more rightly would say he's NOT the chief sinner he used to be.

The present tense point you make is a misunderstanding as Paul referred to being chief sinner in terms of comparing everyones past record of sin as sinners.

How would you explain 1Pet 4:18 which shows you are either righteous OR a sinner (you CAN"T be both)?
---Haz27 on 2/19/12


Mark_V, you misunderstand context of Gal 2:18. Why go back more than a chapter before when the context is given around Gal 2:18?

Read Gal 2:16 to 21 and see it clearly speaks of the law.
---Haz27 on 2/19/12


Haz27//Can someone who sins be declared righteous,

The Bible teaches that we have been justified (or declared righteous) not on our own merits but upon what Christ has done for us at the Cross.

You sin if you break the law but you are not justified by the law.

Ga 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

I am wondering if you are just teasing us with your questions as I find it hard to believe anyone could be so ignorant of what the Bible teaches.
---lee1538 on 2/19/12


Haz, you said,
"Scripture does warn us not to return to sin. Example Gal 2:18 if you rebuild the things you destroyed."
That's not what Paul is talking about in (Gal. 2:18) He was speaking of himself "For if I build again those things which I destroyed" go to (v.1:13), to know what he is talking about,"...How I persecuted the Church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it." When a person is convicted of a capital crime and executed, the law has no further claim on him. So it is with the Christian who has died in Christ (who paid the penalty for his sins in full and rises to new life in Him. Justice has been satisfied and he is forever free from any further penalty. (Rom. 7:1-6).
---Mark_V. on 2/19/12


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It appears to me that you believe one is justified (declared righteous) based upon whether one is free from sin....
---lee1538 on 2/18/12


Lee
Can someone who sins be declared righteous, when sin is unrighteous?
When we become born again, we are much like an expensive bottle of wine.
What makes a bottle of wine expensive? It's not the bottle, it's the wine in the bottle.

When we are made righteous, it's because God lives in us. Without God living in us, we are just a worthless sinner, much like an empty wine bottle is worthless without the wine.

The reason I do not do evil is not because of me, but is done through the power of God who lives in me.
---David on 2/19/12


Haz 2: When you quote Scripture passages read the context. Yes, Paul in ( 1 Peter 1:13) said that he was a blasphemer, a persecutor, but that he obtain mercy because he did what he did ignorantly in unbelief. He goes on to say what I told you, "This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance that "Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am chief." Paul admits his sin after the grace of God came to him (v. 14). Why can you not see this?
---Mark_V. on 2/19/12


Mark V....that piece of scripture you wrote does not refer to Pauls present life. He is refering back to his past life.
Please study that chapter. Then continue over to Romans 8:1-17.
I'm sorry that you just see yourself as Mark and not a child of God.
---JIM on 2/19/12


Haz27 - 1 Timothy 1:13 does not say Paul believed he was sinfree, only that his former life before he became a believer was one of a blasphemer, persecutor and injurious to the church.

And it was AFTER his conversion he proclaimed himself to be the chief of all sinners.

1Ti 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I AM CHIEF. (note the Present Tense!)

Nor can we argue Paul acquired a state of sinlessness but we can say he no longer believed he would be justified by observing the law only by faith in Christ.

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ...
---lee1538 on 2/19/12


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lee1538: 1John1 "declares" "bear witness", "show unto you eternal life", "that ye also may have fellowship".
Why would it speak in such terms to believers? Clearly it's a salvation message.

1John1:6 Why would you think it speaks to believers when it's addressing those who say they are believers but "walk in darkness" (without Christ)

As unbelief (John16:9) is the sin the world is convicted of why avoid using this definition?

I noted also your post on 1Tim 1:15. claiming Paul is a sinner. But read 1Tim1:13 which shows he refers to PAST history before he came to Christ.

Have you considered my questions on your "practice sin" doctrine on 1John3:9?
---Haz27 on 2/18/12


Mark_V you said: "Nowhere are we told sin disappeared to the believer".

Scripture does warn us not to return to sin. Example Gal 2:18 if you rebuild the things you destroyed (the law) you make yourself a transgressor (sinner).

But if we continue IN CHRIST believing His promise we are NOT sinners. In Christ there is NO SIN 1john3:5. In Christ we CANNOT sin 1John3:9. In Christ we are HOLY Rom 11:16

Can you explain:
1Pet 4:18 either you're righteous OR a sinner,
John8:34 if you sin you are a servant of sin
1John3:6 whoever sins has not seen him nor known him
1John3:8 He who sins is of the devil
1Pet4:1 we've ceased from sin
Rom6:2 How shall we that are dead to sin live in it any longer?

---Haz27 on 2/18/12


lee1538: You're correct, there is sin outside the law, but not for Christians.

Rom 2:12 "For as many as have sinned without the law shall also PERISH without the law"
Here we see there is sin without the law.
What sin is it?
1John5:17 "All unrighteousness is sin"
The law is called the law of righteousness Rom 9:31. This is how righteousness is determined. Unless you keep the law perfectly you're unrighteous and PERISH. And if your outside the law and without Christ's imputed righteousness you PERISH.

Praise God we are righteous in Christ.
And if the righteous are scarcely saved, where shall the ungodly and SINNER appear 1Pet 4:18.
Clearly Christians are righteous IN Christ and NOT sinners.
---Haz27 on 2/18/12


David //To be saved, you must be free of sin. Jesus said to be free of sin you must except the Truth, the Truth that if you sin, you are a slave to sin.(John 8:34-36).

It appears to me that you believe one is justified (declared righteous) based upon whether one is free from sin, or whether one totally obeys all the law and all the time.

However, I do not see Scripture teaches that.

The believer in Christ is justified by faith, not by any works he may do in righteousness or by the law.

Romans 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
---lee1538 on 2/18/12


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Haz27//Now apply the sin defined in John 16:9 (unbelief) and we see 1John1:9 speaks to the unsaved. It's a salvation message.

Totally wrong!

1 John 1:9-10 is in the first person, IF WE confess OUR SIN, IF We say we have no sin.... John is not addresses those that are unbelievers but believers.

You also need to review Romans 6:14-15 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace. What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!

The verse states we can sin even if we are not under the law.

So it is very plain that while believers are not under the law, they can still sin.
---lee1538 on 2/18/12


David, you have got it all wrong. Don't you realize that if you do not admit you are a sinner, you can never be saved?
---Mark_V. on 2/16/12


Mark
To be saved, you must be free of sin. Jesus said to be free of sin you must except the Truth, the Truth that if you sin, you are a slave to sin.(John 8:34-36)
You say you sin, but you can not say you are a slave to sin. You say that you sin, but you do not want to sin. That statement alone proves that you are a slave to sin.

A man can not have two masters, and you sin.
Is Jesus is the master of righteousness, or is he the master of sin?
Your claims make Jesus Christ, the master of sin.
---David on 2/18/12


Haz, you said,
"BUT, "Where there is NO LAW there is NO TRANSGRESSION (SIN)" Rom 4:15"

But the law of God stands forever, and very much in effect. It's condemning all those who are not in Christ. It does not condemn us anymore, but it is very much real. (Rom. 4:15) Those who are of the law, if they could keep the whole law-an impossibility- receive the promise, faith has no value. "Promise of no effect"
The law brings about wrath, by exposing man's sinfulness ((7:7-11: Gal. 3:19,24). "But also to those who are of the faith of Abraham" Justification is by faith alone "according to Grace" (v. 16). Nowhere are we told sin disappeared to the believer.
---Mark_V. on 2/18/12


Haz is right. We are truely freed from sin.
Lets not identify with satan(sin). We are saints now, Christ dwells within.
---duane on 2/18/12


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Mark_V: You're corret we're not under the law BUT you then say "it does not mean when we sin its not transgression of the law"

BUT, "Where there is NO LAW there is NO TRANSGRESSION (SIN)" Rom 4:15

You stated we are still sinners and referred to Eph. 4:32: Col. 2:13. There are no references to Christians being sinners here. And Col 2:13 compares our position pre v's post salvation. Note how it says having forgiven ALL trespasses.

1Pet 4:18 "If the righteous are scarcely saved where shall the ungodly and sinner appear". Clearly 2 different groups here. You are either righteous OR a sinner. You CANT be both.
---Haz27 on 2/17/12


Mike...What about the woman caught in the act of adultry?
How do you answer what Christ told her, "Go and sin no more".
According to you, we(believers)are full of sin.
First off, a believer(saint>set apart,sacred,holy) is not a sinner.
---JIM on 2/16/12

Jim,

Jesus does not say to her, and 'you will not sin no more. Go and sin no more, means she is capable of sinning even after Jesus forgive her!
---Ruben on 2/17/12


Jim, I look in the mirror I see Mark V. a sinner who wishes he did not sin anymore. I don't want to sin, but sin is within me, in my flesh which has not been redeemed. The consumation of my salvation has not occured yet until the glorification of the body at the Second Coming. By the Grace of God, I have been made alive, forgiven, made righteous, not by my works, but by the imputation of Christ righteousness. I stand as Paul,
"For I know that in me (that is, in the flesh) nothing good dwells, for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good that I will to do, I do not do, but the evil I will not to do, that I practice." And what cause this, (v.20) sin that dwells in me"
---Mark_V. on 2/17/12


Mark_V: There's NO scriptures saying Christians are sinners.
Also if you judge being "holy" on a perfect lifestyle you'll find in the natural nobody attains this.

Being holy is being in Christ. He is holy "and if the root is holy, so are the branches" Rom 11:16
Remember "if Christ be in you, the BODY is dead because of sin" Rom 8:10
I no longer live but Christ lives in me, Gal 2:20.
Being in Christ is being holy.

In Christ there's no sin, 1John3:5. So why do you claim you are still in sin? Jesus set us free from sin, John8:36.

If you sin then you're a servant of sin, John8:34. And Christians WERE servants of sin before salvation, but NOW are servants of righteousness, Rom6:18
---Haz27 on 2/17/12


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If we were not sinners, we would not need the whole New Testament to teach us how to be holy//Mark V

Mark...Brother...answer this one question.
When you look in the mirror. do you see a wicked,heathen who is devoted to sin and practices sin? Or do you see a Child of God?
---JIM on 2/17/12


Haz, (1 John 1:9) is for believers. Mark V....not correct.
It is about the false teachers and gnostics who did not belive that Christ came in the flesh, but spirit only. They also believed themselves to be without sin. That same verse you just quite don't understand goes on to say that He is faithfull and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us of all unrighteousness.So God is faithfull and just and cleanses us of ALL unrighteousness.

Mark V....You being a believer, how many of your sins were forgiven? Also, according to that verse you have been cleansed of all unrighteousness.Romans 5 says we have been justified(made righteous) through faith. It also goes on to say we have been justified(made righteous)through His blood.
---JIM on 2/17/12


Haz 2: you also said to Lee,

"It cant be transgression of the law as we are NOT under it."

It is transgression of the law, just because we are not under the law it does not mean when we sin its not transgression of the law, and it will not be sin. It only means we are not condemned by breaking the law as we were when we were under the law, not saved. If we were not sinners, we would not need the whole New Testament to teach us how to be holy. I don't understand why this is so hard for you to understand. Every day you sin, sometimes more then others. We are saints because we have been "set apart." Apart from those who are under the Law.
---Mark_V. on 2/17/12


Haz, (1 John 1:9) is for believers.//Mark V..Do you see what your saying here?

Believers already have their sins forgiven and are cleansed of all unrighteousness .
We are made righteous through faith. Through the blood of Christ.
---JIM on 2/17/12


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Haz, (1 John 1:9) is for believers. Continual confession of sin is an indication of genuine salvation. While the false teachers would not admit their sin, the genuine Christians admitted and forsook it (Ps. 32:3-5: Prov. 28:13). The term "confess" means to say the same thing about sin as God does, to acknowledge His perspective about sin.
(V.7) is from God's perspective, (v. 9) is from a Christians perspective. Confession of sin characterizes genuine Christians, God continually cleaneses those who are confessing (v.7). Rather than focusing on confession for every single sin as necessary, John here has in mind a settled recognition and acknowledgment that one is a sinner in need of cleansing and forgiveness (Eph. 4:32: Col. 2:13).
---Mark_V. on 2/17/12


lee1538: Regarding versions which say Christians do not "practice" sinning (1John3:9), do they mean do not "practice" transgressing the law (1John3:4)?
BUT, we're not under the law so how can we be judged/accused of sin?

And the word "practice" sinning suggests there's a limit of transgressions permitted. Is that limit 7x70? Does that limit allow for how many years someone lives trying to avoid transgressions (sin)? As you can see there are problems with the "practice" sinning doctrines.

Scripture confirms scripture so 1John3:9 says Christians CANNOT sin just as Rom 6:7 says he that is dead is FREED from sin and John 8:36 says were SET FREE from sin and 1Pet 4:1 we've CEASED from sin.
---Haz27 on 2/17/12


most modern versions
---lee1538 on 2/16/12

Lee
Most modern versions of the Bible did exactly as foretold. They have aided in "Turning the Truth into a lie".

Jesus was the Truth, and he said he told only the Truth.
Jesus said, "Everybody that sins is a slave to sin" (John 8:34)
Jesus said you will have the favor of God, "If you keep his commandments" (John 14:21).
Do you believe these statements by Jesus Christ to be True, or False?

One verse of the Truth needs no interpretation, if you believe it is the Truth.
Do you?
---David on 2/17/12


Lee said: "scripture must be interpreted by scripture."

But scripture confirms we're NOT sinners, as JIM also said.

Lee, you quoted 1John1:9. What "sin" do you think it speaks of?

It cant be transgression of the law as we are NOT under it. But if you read 1John1 from the start note the words it uses.
"BEAR WITNESS and shew unto you that eternal life"
"DECLARE we unto you"
"that ye also MAY HAVE FELLOWSHIP"
"If we say we have fellowship and walk in darkness (without Christ), we lie"

Now apply the sin defined in John 16:9 (unbelief) and we see 1John1:9 speaks to the unsaved. It's a salvation message.
And 1John3:9 means Christians cannot sin.
---Haz27 on 2/16/12


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Lee, I agree totally. First, it is the practice of sin. Second, many passages tell us that all come short of the glory of God. Third, what would anyone expect from God? Of course He tells us to not sin anymore. Would He ever say, its ok to sin a little? He is Holy and pure, why would He lower Himself to sin just to please us?
No believer can be completly pure while he lives in the flesh. He will always fail. We are not complete, at the Second Coming we will receive our glorified bodies and we will be complete. I believe most everyone who promotes sinlessness is because they are still under the law. By now they should be thinking and feeling in the Spirit of the law.
---Mark_V. on 2/16/12


Mike...What about the woman caught in the act of adultry?
How do you answer what Christ told her, "Go and sin no more".
According to you, we(believers)are full of sin.
First off, a believer(saint>set apart,sacred,holy) is not a sinner.
---JIM on 2/16/12


David, you have got it all wrong. Don't you realize that if you do not admit you are a sinner, you can never be saved? Did you forget to read what John also wrote in (v. 1:8-10)? Since God has said that all people are sinners (Ps. 14:3: 51:5: Is. 53:6: Jer. 17:5,6: Rom. 3:10-19, 23: 6:23) to deny that fact is to blaspheme God with slander that defames His name.
The passage you gave is talking about the "Seed" that is in us that came to us at rebirth (The Holy Spirit), which does not sin.
---Mark_V. on 2/16/12


The wording of your question is not very simple but I believe any thing that you understand to be sin has to stop for increase of God's mercy. Even in the sinful position, a level of God's mercy is still being enjoyed.
---Adetunji on 2/16/12


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David - most modern versions have 1 John 3:9 as -

No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for Gods seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.

And that makes sense since 1 John 1:9 tells us that we need confess our sin when we sin and 1 John 1:10 states that all of us have our sin as if we say otherwise we make God a liar.

One need not base belief on a single verse of scripture as scripture must be interpreted by scripture.
---lee1538 on 2/16/12


The mercy granted by God is forgivness, no penality for the crime, a free gift, if you believe Jesus Christ. There are no strings attached. Just recieve it.
*****

Nothing in Holy Scriptrue IMPLIES there are "no strings" Rhonda//

Rhonda...Eph.2:8 says it is a gift from God. Which comes from Gods awesome grace. It is through Faith in Jesus that you receive eternal life. If there were works that you had to do to receive this then it would not be a gift but an obligation.
---JIM on 2/16/12


He who say he does not sin is a lier
---mike88874 on 2/16/12


Jesus answers this question in (John 8:34-35).
In that passage, Jesus clearly teaches that those who sin will not have Eternal Life and the Son (those born of God) will have Eternal life.

To confirm this teaching, look what John taught in (1 John 3:9) about those born of God.
"Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin, for His seed remaineth in him, and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
---David on 2/14/12


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The mercy granted by God is forgivness, no penality for the crime, a free gift, if you believe Jesus Christ. There are no strings attached. Just recieve it.
*****

Nothing in Holy Scriptrue IMPLIES there are "no strings"

however NO STRINGS does exist for those who claim they are christian yet don't follow Christ

it would be impossible to follow Christ or HEAR HIS Words or the Apostles teachings ...if the LIE there were "no strings" was true then Christ and Apostles spoke a whole lot of hot air and one could just toss out Holy Scripture as a worthless book of words
---Rhonda on 2/11/12


Tommy, your believes are so far out that a person does not know where to begin with you. You believe nothing from Scripture. It is all conjecture you say. "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved"
Why do you think that the world needs to be saved? Because it is condemned already. Here's why from Scripture,
"He who believes in Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
The world, all descendants of Adam are condemned already.
---Mark_V. on 2/11/12


Tommy, do you not understand what grace is? you said:
"Isaiah said: Let the Wicked forsake his ways and the unrighteous man his thoughts"

The wicked cannot turn from his unrighteous ways. He has to have a change heart. And he cannot change his own heart in order to repent. All who are saved are sinners. Believers are not been saved, unbelievers are. On 2/7/12, I gave you (Romans 9:14-16) and the reason he said what he did,
"For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, 'For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth. Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens" (Rom. 9:17,18).
---Mark_V. on 2/10/12


The mercy granted by God is forgivness, no penality for the crime, a free gift, if you believe Jesus Christ. There are no strings attached. Just recieve it.
---Eunice on 2/10/12


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Because all have Sinned!





The Doctrine of Original Sin can only be proven by Conjecture. NOTHING in Scripture states exclusively that the Nature of man was corrupted in Adam and then handed down to his posterity. The false teachers like to use Romans5:12 to Suggest that Sin was handed down to all men. BUT the Passage merely states that Death spread to all men, Because ALL SINNED! Placing the responsibility of the sin directly where it was intended to be placed. On the free will choice of man to CHOOSE to Sin and take the similar path of Adam in rebellion.
---Tommy8976 on 2/10/12


We are freed from sin through Christ.
No man(in Adam) can stop being a sinner, thats why Christ had to die.
Mercy was granted over 2000 yrs ago.
---duane on 2/10/12


The Word is plain on this question.

Rom.5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us
---michael_e on 2/9/12


Isaiah said: Let the Wicked forsake his ways and the unrighteous man his thoughts. Let him RETURN to the Lord and He will have Mercy on him. For He will abundantly pardon. Isa55:7 Hundreds of Passages could be sited proclaiming the exact Same Message of Repentance. So when the Lord compared His Message to that of the Prophets, He used Jonah as His example. (Luke11:29-32, Mt12:38-42)
Upon hearing the Repentance message of Jonah the people of Nineveh STOPPED sinning, shut down their city and Cried out to the Lord, assuming Nothing. Real Repentance includes a Season of godly sorrow in which the Pennant person STOPS or gets Clear of their Wrong Doings! (It Does Not happen after Salvation)
No one seems to know what biblical repentance is.
---Tommy8976t on 2/9/12


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Of course God grants mercy to whom He wills, that is a given! But are you saying God gives His precious mercy to an unrepentant sinner, still in thier vile sins, and hopefully will clean this person up later, because he was born depraved?
God grants mercy to those who have repented, Acts 3-19, first, stopped thier vile sins against God, and hope He will forgive Him, I just cant see how a vile child molester getting saved at a Billy Graham rally, still a vile sinner, just covered by the provision, and hope God grants him mercy, while he is still IN his sins, he should be in prison.
---Tommy8976 on 2/9/12


We will always sin as long as we live, however, as a Christian, it should never be willingly or planned. Mistakes happen. Ask for forgiveness then show you're truly sorry for the action by turning from the sin & not repeating it.
Romans 6:1-2, What shall we say then?Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer there in?
---Reba on 2/7/12


Tommy, no, God's mercy towards salvation has no connection whatsoever to do with any of our works or merits, it is all of God. (Romans 9:14-16) tells us
"What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not. For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassiong." So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy."

"And if by grace, then it is no longer of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace." ( Romans 11:6).
---Mark_V. on 2/7/12


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