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Christians Not Under The Law

We read and hear repeatedly in the Bible and from others that the Christian is not under the law. What law is being spoken of in such verses as Romans 6:14-15, Gal. 5:18, 1 Tim. 1:9. This is troubling since our judgment will be on what we do or do not do.

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Jesus was born a Jew under the law. They called him teacher. He taught and lived under the law.
---Eunice on 2/11/12


Eunice
I agree Jesus was born under law. But, if you believe Jesus was a teacher of the Law, you must also believe that his disciples were also teacher's of the Law.
Why?
Because Jesus told his disciples in (Matthew 28:18-20) to teach all nations what he had taught them.

This would mean you also believe everything written after the book of Hebrews is irrelevant.
Because those books were written by the Lords disciples, and in those books, they teach what Jesus taught in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

Do you really believe this? If you do, what denomination do you belong to? Just curious.
---David on 2/12/12


Lee: "Cain in killing his brother did sin, howbeit, at that time there was no law regarding murder."

That's nuts! Do you also think that there is no law against murder today? Particularly since you believe that the cross negated the LAW. You can always tell those who love to sin by their constant railing against the LAW. Do you really believe that God was offended by sins such as murder ONLY during the Hebrew dispensation?


---jerry6593 on 2/12/12


Samuel, Rhonda and Francis:
Sadly, 1Cor 5 speaks to you about your spiritual fornication.
The DOCTRINE of self-righteousness through the law is described as leaven Matt 16:12,
And it should be PURGED OUT 1Cor 5:7.
Gal 5:9 warns likewise: "a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump"
Gal 5:1-4
"Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do NOT be entangled again with a yoke of BONDAGE."
"You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law, you have FALLEN from grace."

Rhonda: Unbelief in Jesus is sin, John 16:9. If your under the law your in unbelief.
---Haz27 on 2/12/12


Sin, is really idolatry or disbelief.
****

that idea must be written backwards in Satanic version of Holy Scripture

PER Gods TRUTH found in HIS WORD SIN is the transgression of GODS LAWS

John 8 describes the SIN of ADULTERY - doesn't say "sin of idolatry" curious how one would confuse adultery and idolatry

nothing about "unbelief" here 1John 3:4 Rom 7:7

1John 5:17 all unrighteousness is sin and all sin is breaking GODS LAWS Psalm 119:172

James 2:10-11 doesn't say anything about "unbelief or idolatry" here either

TRUE BELIEVERS are under Gods Holy Just and PERFECT LAW today

self professing "christians" live like the wicked without GODS LAWS
---Rhonda on 2/11/12


Lee: I use definition of sin
(transgression of the law) because when debating SDAs thats what they understand it to be.

Scriptures warn us to NOT go under the law as we are righteous in Christ instead.

Example 1Cor 5 speaks of spiritual fornication (being under the law). God warns we should not fellowship with such people (1Cor 5:9-13). "A little leaven (righteousness through the law doctrine) leaveneth the whole lump", Gal 5:9.
"I would that they were even CUT OFF which trouble you (with doctrine of law), Gal 5:12.

And we should rebuke (1Tim 5:20) those under the law for their sin (being under law thus making themselves transgressors, Gal 2:18). They need to PURGE OUT the old LEAVEN 1Cor 5:7
---Haz27 on 2/11/12




Lee: Yes, sin is more than transgression of the law. I guess you saw my previous post?

God gives various definitions of sin. And all point to unbelief as sin, which is the sin the world is convicted of, John 16:9.

Who will rule in each of us. Spirit OR the flesh.
The flesh is rebellion/unbelief/seeks to establish it's own righteousness.

We see types of this battle Spirit v's flesh in Bible. Cain v's Able. Esau v's Jacob.

We also face a battle. Rom 7:23-25 "I see another law (self-righteousness) in my members, warring against the law of my mind....So then with the mind (Spirit) I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin( that is if the flesh rules in you instead of the Spirit).
---Haz27 on 2/11/12


Haz, while sin may well be a transgression of the law, it is really more than that. Cain in killing his brother did sin, howbeit, at that time there was no law regarding murder.

Sin, is really idolatry or disbelief.
---lee1538 on 2/11/12


Basically there are two laws of God: old testament law, that in stone, and New Testament Law. that in flesh, Christians are not under the old testament law, but Christians, and all people, are under the New Testament Law.
---Eloy on 2/11/12


Haz //Can we sin without breaking any of the law found in the Bible? --lee1538 on 2/10/12

Where there is NO LAW there is NO TRANSGRESSION (Sin) Rom 4:15
---
Not totally sure you are correct on this issue. As Adam sinned and there was no law.

Ro 5:13-14 For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
---lee1538 on 2/11/12


David,Jesus was born a Jew under the law. They called him teacher. He taught and lived under the law. As long as He was alive, so was the law. He went to Temple worship. He never told them to stop Temple worship. The killing of animals was their only means of seeking forgiveness, animal blood poured out for them.
When Christ went to the cross He became the final sacrifice...The last one. Anyone trying to follow the law today would have to go back to killing animals and fulfilling all the other parts of the law.
The people had faith in what God said through the profits, That a savior was coming, and they believed it was Jesus.
---Eunice on 2/11/12




"Can we sin without breaking any law...?"

A few of God's definitions of sin:
transgression of the law 1John3:4
Unbelief in Jesus, John16:9
All unrighteousness 1John5:17

We see in Rom 2:12, those who sinned (unrighteousness) without the law also perish without the law.
And those under the law (like SDAs) shall be judged by the law (and be found guilty of ALL of it, James 2:10).

In Christ we are righteous, holy (Rom 11:16), perfected (Heb 10:14), sanctified (Heb 10:10). In Christ there is no sin (1John3:5)

But there are many warnings in the Bible NOT to go under the law of sin and death. SDAs struggle with this in being lukewarm through mixing grace with law.
---Haz27 on 2/11/12


Can we sin without breaking any of the law found in the Bible? --lee1538 on 2/10/12

Where there is NO LAW there is NO TRANSGRESSION (Sin) Rom 4:15

Sin is transgression of the law, 1John3:4.
"And you know that he was manifested to take away our sin, and in him is NO SIN. Whosoever abides in him SINNETH NOT: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him" 1John3:5,6

In Christ we're NOT under the law. So CANNOT be judged as transgressors of it (SINNETH NOT).

BUT, if your UNDER the law you make yourself a transgressor (sinner), Gal 2:18.

If the righteous are scarcely saved, where shall the ungodly and sinner appear. 1Pet 4:18
Either we're righteous in Christ OR a sinner. You CANT be both
---Haz27 on 2/11/12


In Luke7:50, Jesus told the woman her faith had saved her.
Those that believed that Jesus was the Christ were saved by that same faith because Jesus said they were forgiven. He was saying He had the authority to forgive them, by forgiving them he spared them the punishment they deserved. They were saved by faith.
---Eunice on 2/10/12

Eunice
How could Jesus have been under the Law and a teacher of the Law, when these people were saved by Faith?
If Jesus told them they were saved by Faith, could he have been a teacher of the Law?
By your own words you have shown that Jesus was teaching the same thing Paul was teaching, "We are saved by Faith".
---David on 2/11/12


Lee: If indeed the Ten Commandment LAW was changed at the cross as you would like, then surely you could offer a scripture to support the specific changes. But you can't. Surely also, the disciples would immediately stop keeping the Seventh-day Sabbath. But they didn't. You have admitted that they kept the Sabbath for at least 100 years after the cross.

The fact is that the only LAW that was changed was that concerning the priesthood: levitical was changed to Melchisedec priesthood.

But you aren't interested in what the Bible says, only in warping it to fit your comfortable lifestyle.

---jerry6593 on 2/11/12


Atheist, You seem concerned? God writes His Rightous and Holy Laws on the hearts and minds of His Children.
Unless your really not sure of what you actually belive? ....God loves You!
---suebone589634 on 2/7/12

Sure he's concerned. Only GOD knows if he loves him. It is not guaranteed anywhere. He was raised by Christians. Scripture does not make sense to him because he trys to logic his way through. He doesn't ask GOD...although it is easier and smarter than asking us. It would be ....humility & admission.
He mentioned a rule/law in Deut that would have doomed him in those days.
He self admitted once he follows the laws....or maybe he would like to confess he doesn't? Murdered anyone lately atheist?
---Trav on 2/11/12


//Can you show me what you understand the Old Covenant to be?

While there are several covenants found in the Bible, there are really 2 essential covenants that the Bible refers to - the old obsolete Sinatic covenant God made with the nation of Israel through which came the law, and the New Covenant that Christ initiated.

Believers in Christ are under the New covenant and not the old Sinatic covenant and walk not by the law but by faith. Romans 1,17, Gal. 3:11.
---lee1538 on 2/11/12


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Francis //This is what I understand the Old Covenant to be:

Exodus 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure.....

Yes, we can easily see you as a child of Hagar are in slavery to that old Covenant given at Mt. Sinai.

We have a better understanding of the Bible as we read that the Old Covenant became obsolete and was passing away at the time the church was in it infancy.

Galatians 4:24-25 Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery, she is Hagar. Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children.
---lee1538 on 2/11/12


Francis: Your description of NOT being under law is accepting Christ died for us. It seems you believe only the death penalty part of the law was dealt with (for past sins).
BUT, it's called the law of SIN and DEATH. You seem to be saying the sin part remains.

Contrary to your doctrine, Christ SETS FREE from sin (John8:36). Being crucified with Christ means FREED FROM SIN (Rom 6:7).

Francis, as your under the law you make yourself a transgressor (Gal 2:18) and you're guilty of ALL of it (James 2:10).
Heb 10:26 if you continue to sin (being under law thus making yourself a transgressor) wilfully then judgement.

But in Christ your not under the law. And where there's NO LAW there is NO TRANSGRESSION (sin) Rom 4:15
---Haz27 on 2/10/12


--lee1538 on 2/10/12
Can you show me what you understand the Old Covenant to be?

This is what I understand the Old Covenant to be:

Exodus 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him. And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.
---francis on 2/10/12


David and Francis, The Bible says that Abraham was saved by faith, he believed God and his obedience proved it.(Rom.4:3)
In Luke7:50, Jesus told the woman her faith had saved her.
Those that believed that Jesus was the Christ were saved by that same faith because Jesus said they were forgiven. He was saying He had the authority to forgive them, by forgiving them he spared them the punishment they deserved. They were saved by faith.
---Eunice on 2/10/12


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barb //After His resurrection Jesus sent His disciples out as preachers and teachers to the nations and you imply He did so without first correcting them as to the change in the law.

Yes, Christ changed the law as He initiated a New Covenant in His blood, a covenant Hebrews 8:9 states was "NOT LIKE the covenant I made with their fathers...when I took them out of Egypt".

And in making "a New Covenant, He makes the first one obsolete" (8:13).

There was also a change in the priesthood causing a change in the law (7:12).

The NT speaks of the Old Covenant as being the ministry of death & condemnation being replaced by the more glorious ministry of the Spirit. (2 Cor. 3:7,9)

Hope this helps.
---lee1538 on 2/10/12


To say a person sleeping with his stepmother is not a physical event does not make any sense.

Christians are not dependent on the law for salvation. It just tells us right and wrong and shows whot love means in action.
---Samuel on 2/10/12


Can we sin without breaking any of the law found in the Bible?
---lee1538 on 2/10/12


I will never understand why Christians are always trying to get away from the law. The t
Ten Commandments are the law Yashua governs with and always will. A lot of times this involves the Sabbath question. Yahshua is the Lord of the Sabbath. Yashua came to fullfill the Law not do away with it and it will be so throughout eternity. If this is about what you can eat look at it this way. God designed man, he knows what makes you work best, he designed you. If you eat something else it is not sin but you do it at your own peril. Savvy?
---Neptune0461 on 2/10/12


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Francis, Yes, it's spiritual. Like I said to you, don't be like Nicodemus.

Why would they glory (1Cor 5:6) over someone having his father's wife? Odd thing to glory over in any culture.
Instead we see glorying/boasting comes from self-righteousness through the law which is why 1Cor 5:6,7 warns to PURGE OUT the old leaven (DOCTRINE of self-righteousness through works of the LAW, Matt 16:12).

SDAs likewise need to purge out the old leaven and stop frustrating God's grace. Many here have rebuked SDAs here for their sin (1Tim 5:20), being under law and making themselves transgressors (Gal 2:18).

And we still share the grace message with you in spite of your continual sin.
---Haz27 on 2/10/12


Yes, it's spiritual (NOT physical) fornication.
---Haz27 on 2/10/12

1 Corinthians 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, THAT ONE SHOULD HAVE HIS FATHER'S WIFE

You think this is SPIRITUAL and NOT PHYSICAL fornication?

If that is what you really think. then this is the last time I will be responding to you
---Francis on 2/10/12


I think David's question is this:

If you believe that the goapsl of grace was given to Paul then how do you explain all those saved by grace before Paul was converted?

His point here ( CORRECTLY STATED) is that the gospel of grace was taught before paul was converted.

My statement is that the Gospel of grace was first taught to Adam and Eve:
Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed, it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
---francis on 2/10/12


Under the law has two biblical meansings
1: Not under the curse or condemnation of the law. No christain can be under the condemnation of the law because Jesus had taken that curse or condemnation for us by his death on the cross.
Being a christian means that you have accepted Christ death for yours.

2: under the law also referrs to the time period when people had to sacrifice an animal for sin as taught by the law of Moses.
We are not at that time period, we are at the time when christ has given his life for our sin.
---francis on 2/10/12


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Francis: Yes, it's spiritual (NOT physical) fornication.
If 1Cor 2:13,14 explains how God's word is spiritually discerned then why read it physically?

Scriptures warn against being under law and this is one of them. Consider 1 Cor 5:7 to help you see it's context. It says "purge out the old leaven". What's this leaven? Matt 16:12, it's the DOCTRINE of the Pharisees/Sadducees.
This refers to righteousness through the law. Similar to SDA doctrine.

Likewise 1Tim 5:20 "them that sin rebuke" speaks of those going under law. This speaks of those going under the law (like SDAs). Eventually they transgress it (sin) Gal 2:18 "making themselves transgressors".
Don't frustrate God's grace.
---Haz27 on 2/10/12


Mark V, then we should all pray for him. Only God can open his heart and mind to the truth. God bless
---Eunice on 2/10/12


Jesus could only teach the law because He was a Jew living under the law, it would have been a sin to do otherwise. The resurrected Jesus Christ, no longer under the law gave the gospel of grace to Paul by revelation. This new salvation by grace had been a mystery until then.-Eunice

Eunice,
What Gospel were those people in (Acts 2:41) being saved?
Paul was killing believer's during this time period, and he had not yet received the Gospel of Grace.
If what you say is true, no one was being saved before Paul's Epistles.
Is this what you believe?
If not, then they only had the Gospel of Christ.
---David on 2/10/12


Lee 1538, you have shown me thru Paul's words that the commandments are passe. Can you show me the same thru the words of Jesus?

I am at a total loss as to why God would send His Son with an incomplete message for His Kingdom. After His resurrection Jesus sent His disciples out as preachers and teachers to the nations and you imply He did so without first correcting them as to the change in the law. Matt 28:18-20. Oops! So then what? Jesus appears to the guy who is persecuting and trying to murder his beloved apostles and gives that fella the message? Sounds like a Grimms Fairytale.
---barb on 2/10/12


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Eunice, that was a great answer you gave David, but David is not here to find the Truth, he is here to bring in his own doctrines. And no matter what you say, it will not sink in unless the Spirit of God reveals it to him. So many thousands of answers concerning the law, and nothing has gotten hold so far. But we continue anyway. Thanks for your answer. Peace
---Mark_V. on 2/10/12


David, The law could not save anyone. The law can only show us our guilt. Grace is the result of the cross.
Jesus could only teach the law because He was a Jew living under the law, and it would have been a sin to do otherwise.
The resurrected Jesus Christ, no longer under the law (because His death did away with the penalty of the law ) gave the gospel of grace to Paul by revelation. This new salvation by grace had been a mystery until then. Before this, they thought they had to keep every law to be saved (which no one could, except Jesus). Jesus died for the forgiveness of breaking the laws (sin).
---Eunice on 2/10/12


Francis: Don't be like Nicodemus understanding only in physical terms. You know of 1Cor 2:13,14 that God's word is SPIRITUALLY discerned.
---Haz27 on 2/9/12

I am not sure what you are trying to say. So let me just ask and maybe get aplain answer

Are you saying that this was not a physical fornication but spiritual?

1 Corinthians 5:1 It is reported commonly [that there is] fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
---francis on 2/10/12


It is only after His death and resurrection that grace is revealed to take the place of the law for salvation.
---Eunice on 2/9/12


Eunice
Was Moses dead when the children of Abraham received the Law?
Why do I ask this question?
Because (John 1:17) says,
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

If you do not believe that we received the teachings of Grace and Truth from Jesus Christ, who do you think gave them to us?
If you think it's was Paul, how do you explain all the people who were being saved before Paul's conversion in (Acts 2:41)?
---David on 2/10/12


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barb //Jesus taught that the ten commandments are a requirement to salvation. Matt 5:17-20, Matt 22:37-40.

You fail to understand the Word of God.

Galatians 4:4-5 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.

And since Jesus was a Jew, He would also have advised His followers to be circumcised. Remember your comment that God does not change, you must therefore reject most of the New Testament.

The requirement to salvation is to accept the offer of salvation given to those who would believe in Christ. John 3:16.

Otoh, if you obey all the law all the time, you will be justified.
---lee1538 on 2/9/12


Does God change? Jesus taught that the ten commandments are a requirement to salvation. Matt 5:17-20, Matt 22:37-40. God gave the commandments to Moses to give to the people and if they were about to pass away then why didn't Jesus say so? Why does He say that whosoever breaks one of the commandments and teaches others to do so will be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven? After His resurrection would Jesus have sent his disciples out to the nations to teach and baptize (Matt 28:19-20) without first teaching them the grace message that Paul supposedly was given??

Here is my advice. Listen to the voice of God and follow the teaching of His Son and you will have nothing to worry about on judgement day. Rev. 12:17.
---barb on 2/9/12


Francis: Don't be like Nicodemus understanding only in physical terms. You know of 1Cor 2:13,14 that God's word is SPIRITUALLY discerned.

1Cor 5 we've discussed already and I've explained how it refers to spiritual fornication.

1Tim 5:20 "them that sin rebuke". So how do they sin? Gal 2:18 "if I build again the things I destroyed (the law) then I make myself a transgressor (sinner).

1Tim 5:20 refers to the likes of SDAs who turn back to the law.
Christ SETS FREE from the law of sin and death. Dont frustrate the grace of God, Gal 2:19-21.
---Haz27 on 2/9/12


Everything Jesus said during his earthly ministry He said as a Jew under the law, to Jews under the law. It is only after His death and resurrection that grace is revealed to take the place of the law for salvation.
If you are saved by grace you will not be judged for your sins, Jesus has already been punished for those, you will be judged for you rewards.
---Eunice on 2/9/12


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While Christ told the young man to obey the commandments to have eternal life, what would Jesus had said to the young man if he has asked if he should become circumcised, observe the dietary laws, as well as the other tenets of Moses?
---lee1538 on 2/8/12


Lee
The question asked by this man was about "Eternal Life."
When God made his covenant with Moses and gave him the Law, did God promise Eternal Life to those under that covenant?
No.
So this man was seeking knowledge about the New promise, and Laws of Christ which he needed to keep to be in the New covenant with God, which promised "Eternal Life".
---David on 2/9/12


---Haz27 on 2/8/12
Here is a christian taking his fathers wife which is fornication
1 Corinthians 5:1 It is reported commonly [that there is] fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

here is Paul advising Timothy on how to deal with christians who sin
1 Timothy 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

There is more, but these should be enough to tell you that at time the christian does sin. The difference between a christian and a sinner, is that when a christain knows that he has sinned, he immediately seeks forgiveness. When a sinner is confronted with is sin, he claims not to have sinned.
---francis on 2/9/12


Proverbs 24:16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again:..."---francis on 2/8/12

Francis, you ASSUME this speaks of transgressing the law. Are you saying that we're permitted to transgress the law UP TO 7 times? If not, what is the limit? Or is there no limit providing you do foot washing each transgression?

And if Christ's sacrifice purged us of sin ONCE (being better than OT yearly sacrifices), then there should be no more conscience of sins anyway (Heb 10:2). Christ set us free from sin,John8:36

Scripture supports scripture. This is a better answer than accusing me of "unintelligent" posts. If there's no scripture to support your doctrine do you really want to follow it then?

---Haz27 on 2/8/12


Under the law has two biblical meansings
1: Not under the curse or condemnation of the law. No christain can be under the condemnation of the law because Jesus had taken that curse or condemnation for us by his death on the cross.
Being a christian means that you have accepted Christ death for yours.

2: under the law also referrs to the time period when people had to sacrifice an animal for sin as taught by the law of Moses.
We are not at that time period, we are at the time when christ has given his life for our sin.
---francis on 2/8/12


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Is this also one of the laws?

Deuteronomy 21:18-21: "If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." 21 Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death."
---atheist on 2/8/12


//And the fact that SDAs STILL transgress the law proves they never truly repented to begin with.

Francis is more deeper into sin than he would want to realize. Such is the case with the spiritually blind.

In not observing ALL the law ALL the time, he will be held totally guilty of disobeying all the law. James 2:10

If he disagrees, then we need to ask him if he disobeys the law which commands him that he is not to light a fire in his home on the Sabbath? Exodus 35:3

Let's face it, SDA theology is like a fish seine, it cannot hold water.
---lee1538 on 2/8/12


//Also many here have noted how SDAs don't even observe the Sabbath correctly.

Ask any Jew that question and they may tell us that Adventists do not observe the Sabbath in accordance to how it was done in antiquity.

Frankly, Adventism is a pseudo-Jewish religion with a fabricated Jesus thrown in.
---lee1538 on 2/8/12


And the fact that SDAs STILL transgress the law proves they never truly repented to begin with.

Also many here have noted how SDAs don't even observe the Sabbath correctly. And if you transgress in ONE point you are guilty of ALL, James 2:10
---Haz27 on 2/8/12
And the unintelligent post just keep going on and on

Proverbs 24:16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief
---francis on 2/8/12


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Francis, you insist that others keep the 10 Commandments, when you yourself do not keep them!!!
---Rob on 2/7/12
proof
---francis on 2/8/12

Francis, you gave us the proof of your transgressions, remember?
You admitted SDAs transgress the law, hence the foot washing doctrine to deal with these transgressions.

And the fact that SDAs STILL transgress the law proves they never truly repented to begin with.

Also many here have noted how SDAs don't even observe the Sabbath correctly. And if you transgress in ONE point you are guilty of ALL, James 2:10
---Haz27 on 2/8/12


circumcision, sabbath, the dietary laws and other laws strictly Jewish are no longer applicable to the Christian.
---lee1538 on 2/8/12
ONLY CIRCUMCISION was under consideration. Do you know why circumcision only?

Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled ( DIETARY LAW Deuteronomy 14:21), and [from] blood ( DIETARY LAW Leviticus 17:12 ).
Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Do you really believe that telling converted gentiles that the word of God is preached in EVERY CITY EVERY SABBATH day would discourage or encourage them with keeping sabbath?
---francis on 2/8/12


Francis: You claim that Jesus would insist that no one did anything which in the OT was considered a sin, which includes dietary laws.

We know sin is the transgression of the law. But as Rom 6:14, Gal 5:18, 1 Tim 1:9 show, Christians are NOT under the law. And where there is NO LAW there is NO TRANSGRESSION (sin),Rom 4:15

So if you sin (which means your under the law and make yourself a transgressor Gal 2:18) wilfully, after having the knowledge of the truth (gospel of Christ) there remains no more sacrifice for sin. But a certain fearful looking for of judgement...which shall devour the adversaries" Heb 10:26
---Haz27 on 2/8/12


Francis//Jesus was born UNDER THE LAW ( time period) thus he would have advocated followiong all that moses taught
---
Thank you very very much as you are admitting that the commands of Jesus while under the law are different than the commands He gave thru His Spirit after the Cross.

In other words, circumcision, the sabbath, the dietary laws and other laws strictly Jewish are no longer applicable to the Christian. And was not the purpose of the Jerusalem council Acts 15 to determine if Gentiles needed to convert to Judaism to be legit?

Truly you are starting to see the truth, pray that I am not wrong on this one.
---lee1538 on 2/8/12


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I think Hebrews 7:12 makes it very plain > "For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law." And Jesus "is also Mediator of a better covenant," we have in Hebrews. So, the New Testament is not only new but "better"!!!

Jesus says, "'Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.'" (Matthew 11:29) So, Jesus wants us to have rest for our souls. He cares about how we are while we do the things He wants.
---Bill_willa6989 on 2/8/12


what would Jesus had said to the young man if he has asked if he should become circumcised, observe the dietary laws, as well as the other tenets of Moses?

Await your answer.
---lee1538 on 2/8/12
Luke 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets, let them hear them.

Luke 17:14 And when he saw [them], he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests.

Jesus was born UNDER THE LAW ( time period) thus he would have advocated followiong all that moses taught Mark 10:3 And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you?

After his death he would have insisted that no one did anything which in the OT was considered a sin, that included dietary laws
---francis on 2/8/12


David - while Christ told the young man to obey the commandments to have eternal life, what would Jesus had said to the young man if he has asked if he should become circumcised, observe the dietary laws, as well as the other tenets of Moses?

Await your answer.

Galatians 4:4-5 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.
---lee1538 on 2/8/12


(Matthew 19:16-17)
And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.


Why did Jesus tell this man to keep the commandments instead of telling him to keep the Law?
That Covenant which God made with Moses was called the Law, and was kept out of fear of punishment.
The Covenant Christ made with us is not kept out of our fear of punishment, but is kept out of our love for God.
If it is kept out of love, the Law is no longer needed.(1 John 4:18)
---David on 2/8/12


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Francis, you insist that others keep the 10 Commandments, when you yourself do not keep them!!!
---Rob on 2/7/12
proof
---francis on 2/8/12


1 Kings 3:9 "Give thy servant therefore an understanding mind....that I may discern between good and evil".

"But SOLID FOOD is for the MATURE.....distinguish good from EVIL" (Hebrews 5:14).

Ephesians 5:8 "for once you were DARKNESS" (AFTER the fall)....but "walk as CHILDREN OF LIGHT..."...and in order to have 'holy fruit', be "good and right and true". Don't pretend to OWN (don't lay claim to) the "fruitS" that only the Holy Ghost owns, have fruit of your own).

I have shown that all throughout scripture, God is constantly rescuing us from the darkness of satan's lies (constantly for FIVE YEARS)......meaning that at least 95% of what is taught by man is LIES.
---more_excellent_way on 2/7/12


Is this also one of the laws?

Deuteronomy 21:18-21: "If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." 21 Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death."
---atheist on 2/7/12


Francis, you insist that others keep the 10 Commandments, when you yourself do not keep them!!!
---Rob on 2/7/12


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I happen to live in the same world you do. And your beliefs affect what laws in this world are legislated.

So I have a relevant interest in your beliefs and the laws of god to which you subscribe.

Got it?
---atheist on 2/7/12
Isn't that ironic?
The very same denominations that claim not to be under the law, are the exact same denominations who want to see ten commandments in public places, and as part of state and federal laws.

If they were truely christians they would keep those commandments themselves rather than reject them YET try to legislate them against others
---francis on 2/7/12


//the LAW OF LIBERTY (contradiction in terms TO HUMAN UNDERSTANDING). Since there is no textual explanation about this law.

A suggestion-

1Co 6:12 "All things are lawful for me," but not all things are helpful. "All things are lawful for me," but I will not be enslaved by anything.

1Co 10:23 "All things are lawful," but not all things are helpful. "All things are lawful," but not all things build up.
---lee1538 on 2/7/12


Before the fall in the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve were meant to be governed by (comply with) the 'natural law' of the creator/"heaven",......and they knew nothing of evil/darkness (they were "children of light" before the fall)...

1 John 1:5 "God is light and IN HIM there is NO DARKNESS AT ALL" ,.....(they had no knowledge that there was such a thing as "EVIL").

.....but because of the fall, they gained the knowledge that "goodness" had an opposite (the "knowledge of good and EVIL").

God wants humanity to overcome the handicap of having such knowledge and learn to use it properly (become 'wholly' and reconnect with Him as "children of light").
---more_excellent_way on 2/7/12


---atheist on 2/7/12
I am a christian, and i share your concern. i get it

---more_excellent_way on 2/7/12
Are you convinced that these laws are abolished:

Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image..Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them:
Exodus 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain, Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exodus 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother:
Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.
Exodus 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Exodus 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.
Exodus 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness.
Exodus 20:17 Thou shalt not covet
---francis on 2/7/12


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Atheist, You seem concerned? God writes His Rightous and Holy Laws on the hearts and minds of His Children. You do not need to worry. He will not force you to see it His Way. He loves you, but He will not force you to accept His Grace and Mercy. Your time is valuable, why waste it by trying to argue with people who will never see your point? Unless your really not sure of what you actually belive? In that case...God loves You!!!
---suebone589634 on 2/7/12


Athiest, when you said what you did I was thinking of a soldier on the opposite side complaining, "Hey, why are you shooting at me?"

Because you are on the opposite side. You picked a side. Many of the laws come from athiest and we have to live with them also, you are smart, think about it. There is more athiest and unbelievers in the world then believers.
---Mark_V. on 2/7/12


I happen to live in the same world you do. And your beliefs affect what laws in this world are legislated.

So I have a relevant interest in your beliefs and the laws of god to which you subscribe.

Got it?
---atheist on 2/7/12


"To which law/laws is this referreing?"

atheist, you don't believe in the Word of God, so why should it bother you which law/laws whatever is referring to? Please don't be a hypocrite.
---christan on 2/7/12


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We should observe the LAW OF LIBERTY (contradiction in terms TO HUMAN UNDERSTANDING). Since there is no textual explanation about this law, God leaves compliance to this law up to the individual's imagination/conscience (if we allow the Holy Spirit to teach us genuine 'goodness', our conscience will be clear every day).

Hebrews 9:14 "eternal Spirit.......purify your conscience".

Moses brought the stone tablets down from the holy mountain on which were written the 10 commandments (Mosaic law IS the 10 commandments, so Jesus explains Mosaic law to be the law of sin and death, there was no other O.T. "law"). This "commandment" law and all rules/"ordinances" was abolished (Ephesians 2:15).
---more_excellent_way on 2/7/12


To which law/laws is this referreing?
---atheist on 2/7/12


lee, what is it that Christ declared, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.", you do not understand?

We know that, "for by the law is the knowledge of sin." And sin has only one judgement before God, "For the wages of sin is death"

And the death sentence hung over every mankind. But God made a way for those whom He loved before the foundations of the world, and that was, "JESUS: for He shall save His people from their sins." Jesus fulfilled the law when He "gave himself a ransom for all - that the Father giveth me shall come to me..."
---christan on 2/7/12


A the time of Paul's letters there was no codified new Testament scripture so any reference Paul makes or reference to scripture are to Old Testament or to the 613 old testament laws. There was eventual New Testament scripture in the process of compilation and recording at the time of Paul. Paul did not consider any of his writings as scripture nor did he consider any other New Testament author as scripture. To correctly answer this type of question you must know your authors and the dates when there were writing. Knowing who wrote what to who and when for what reason is of critical importance.
---Blogger9211 on 2/7/12


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The law we're NOT under is 10 commandments with death for transgression.
Known as law of sin and death,Rom 8:2.
Also law of righteousness, Rom 9:31. It's holy,Rom 7:12
It's spiritual,Rom 7:14.

"What the law COULD NOT DO, in that it was WEAK through the FLESH, God sending His own Son..."Rom 8:3

Our "inner man (Christ) delights after the law",Rom 7:22

In Christ though there is no condemnation,Rom 8:1, John3:18. Christians are under the law of Spirit of life in Christ Jesus instead,Rom 8:2

Just as Genesis speaks of tree of life (Christ) OR tree of knowledge of good/evil (the law) resulting in death, likewise we see Rev 20:12 either we're in the book of life OR judged by the law.

---Haz27 on 2/7/12


"What law is being spoken of in such verses as Romans 6:14-15, Gal. 5:18, 1 Tim. 1:9."---lee1538. The law of sin and death.
"The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law." 1Cr 15:56
However, "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made [the believer] free from the law of sin and death." Rom 8:2
---Josef on 2/7/12


To all UNJUST people, since you are the kind of person that likes to rob banks, etc. (meaning you lack a spirit of holiness), you must be COMMANDED/ordered NOT to be unjust.

God's WILL is that we each have a "spirit of holiness" and not be unjust, but since all you care about are....

ANCIENT JEWISH ways of 'COMMANDMENT OBEDIENCE', then you have placed yourself under the LAW instead of GRACE and have no part of God's Spirit in you.

I know that this understanding is contrary to what has been taught for 2000 years, but you have made your own choice to align yourself with the 6th day creation (MAN) instead of the 3 aspects of God (3 sixes). The LAW OF A PURE HEART is that you be a "LOVER OF GOODNESS".
---more_excellent_way on 2/6/12


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