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Hunger To Grow In Christ

When I was saved, there was an irresistible hunger that grew inside of me that was stronger than anything I had ever felt and it was only satisfied when I called out for Jesus to save me. Did I create that desire myself, or did He give it to me?

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 ---Poppa_Bear on 2/11/12
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\\...you are too defensive and angry now to talk to....you have A BELIEF SYSTEM that all suffering is self inflicted in order to gain rewards\\

If I were angry and defensive, should it be a surprise, considering you have accused me of something I have never said?


\\coupon for rewards and a crown...\\

What about Hebrews 12:2? Are you going to accuse Jesus of misdeeds because He was looking ahead to His joy, and used that as "A" motivator to endure?


\\don't have to apologize to you for what I believe.\\

I'm not asking you to apologize for your beliefs. Only support it from scripture. And since you can't, you should consider believing something different
---James_L on 2/28/12


Nothing about "some men" but "men." It doesn't say to make a choice, they had already made a choice the reason they are condemned. It says, "For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, "least his deeds should be exposed"
---Mark_V. on 2/28/12


So MarkV does MEN then include YOU..it must since seem to be saying SOME is non existant.

So you are saying YOU were BORN in the Light, always had light? WHAT LIGHT markV, the Light of your own sparks????
---kathr4453 on 2/28/12


Isaiah 50:11
Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand, ye shall lie down in sorrow.


This is a good look at those who believe they are in the Light..their own that is, and that they were born already in th light.

Nothing NEW under the sun!
---kathr4453 on 2/28/12


OH ....OH I get it now MarkV....You're saying YOUR not a MAN, that you are a little god or possible an angel...is that is...A Mormon right!!!

So no MAN came to any Light correct....some men never came to the light???

Which is it MarkV? You never came to the LIGHT OR you're not a MAN???
---kathr4453 on 2/28/12


Kathr said,

"AND doesn't scripture tell us "some" loved darkness MORE THAN Light? Was not a choice between the two made here? John 3:19."

First, the passage does not say, "some loved darkness" It says,
"And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and "men" loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil"

Nothing about "some men" but "men." It doesn't say to make a choice, they had already made a choice the reason they are condemned. It says, "For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, "least his deeds should be exposed"
---Mark_V. on 2/28/12




JamesL, you are too defensive and angry now to talk to.

I said, because you have A BELIEF SYSTEM that all suffering is self inflicted in order to gain rewards, using FRUIT as your coupon for rewards and a crown rather than fruit as the evidence of salvation, that we will noever agree on this issue.

I gave you my answer JamesL, and I really don't have to apologize to you for what I believe.

Line upon line, precept upon precept is certainly not your strong suit.
---kathr4453 on 2/28/12


All parables are given
"because it has been given to you (believers) to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them (the lost) it has not been given" (Matt. 13:11). And every parable has an answer for the believer at the end of the parable. In the case of the parable of the Sower who went out to sow, in (Matt. 13:3-9) the answer is given in (Matt. 13:18-23).
"But he who received seed on the good ground is he who "hears the Word and understands it," who indeed bears fruit" and produces, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty" (v. Matt. 13:23).
Not all believers are equally fruitful, but all produce fruit. Check out (Matt. 7:16: John 15:8).
---Mark_V. on 2/28/12


Bearing fruit includes all a Christian does to the glory of God.


He who has the wisdom of God is full of good fruits: "But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace" (James 3:17,18).


Paul prayed that the Philippians might be "filled with the fruits of righteousness which are by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God" Phil 1:11

Notice that these fruits are by Christ and to the glory of God.
---kathr4453 on 2/28/12


\\the seed is the WORD of God\\
What do you think the gospel is, Kathr? Is the good news something other than the word of God?


\\we are BORN AGAIN by the Word of God, meaning Born of the Spirit.\\
Yes, when we believe the gospel.


The Gospel doesn't grow inside to Maturity, CHRIST IN YOU is conforming you to HIS DEATH\\
We have a hope through the gospel. Are you saying we don't grow stronger in this hope?


\\first 3 soils minded earthy things\\

You can speculate all you want to. But you would be better off reading what the parable says, instead of reading into it something it doesn't say.

You also didn't answer my question about who will not perish
---James_L on 2/27/12


"""
Since the seed is the gospel (which it says) then the root is the gospel growing in us.

///JamesL

I believe the seed is the WORD of God and as James tells us we are BORN AGAIN by the Word of God, Born Again, meaning Born of the Spirit.

The Gospel doesn't grow inside to Maturity, CHRIST IN YOU is conforming you to HIS DEATH (Phil 3)so that the NEW MAN inside of you is brought to Maturity.

AND if we really believe Paul's words at teh very end of Phil 3...

THOSE who mind earthly things are enemies of the Cross....Paul never says these are saved...but will meet with God's wrath.

Would you say the first 3 soils minded earthy things? I do!
---kathr4453 on 2/27/12




Kathr,
The first three never had salvation to begin with? Where does the parable say that about the second and third?

NOWHERE.

You have imposed that onto the parable. The second and third received the gospel with joy. They believed the gospel.

But you say they were never saved. What's it in the parable that gave you that idea? All you've cited to measure their salvation is their works.

Who will not perish according to Jesus?
Whosoever believes, or
Whosoever believes and produces fruit?

Also, is it a bad thing to desire rewards from God?

Hebrews 12:2
fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who
FOR THE JOY SET BEFORE HIM
endured the cross...
---James_L on 2/26/12


JamesL, We all know with a "prosperity gospel" they do not teach suffering, they do not teach SELL ALL YOU HAVE and take up your CROSS and Follow me.

Read WHY they were offended and fell away.

Many will begin with Christ and depart because they never were saved to begin with so scripture teaches. One cannot LOSE their salvation, and the first three never LOST their salvation. They just never had true salvation to begin with.

No one can ABIDE IN CHRIST unless you are first IN CHRIST.

If you believe what???? What is it you must believe "ON"?

Those who fell away in John 6 did not want to eat His flesh and drink His blood. Jesus never made a secret what salvation entails!!
---kathr4453 on 2/26/12


JamesL, I know the reason we don't agree here is because YOU believe suffering is a choice one makes if he wants rewards and a crown.

So your whole belief system in that would make the parable of the soils quite a bit off.

Fruit comes through suffering and persecution, if you really look deep into that parable.

Crowns and rewards are given to those who LOVE God... period.

Persecution and suffering are only because Christ lives in us, not because we create our own suffering and prsecution for rewards.

Just as Christ expressed Himself through a body made of flesh, so too are WE His Body here on earth where HE is still in this world through us.

No one ever stopped hating Christ ot His message.
---kathr4453 on 2/26/12


Kathr,
I never said the fruit is something we do. Yet, we are commanded to produce fruit.

Believing the gospel isn't something WE DO either, yet all men are commanded to believe.

Since the seed is the gospel (which it says) then the root is the gospel growing in us.

When the gospel takes root, we grow in the grace and knowledge of Christ. THAT is what produces fruit UNTO MATURITY

But what if the ground isn't too good? Are you saying God takes eternal life from those who fall away, or don't mature?

You are trying to fuse together faith and works to where only those producing works get to go to heaven. You are loading works into God's grace. But we are born again APART FROM WORKS. Whether you have any, OR NOT.
---James_L on 2/26/12


James, I did not mean to step on your toes with saying, Tut, Tut It was my way of saying, you have me misunderstood dear boy, I must be more careful not to offend you when we dialog. I am not even sure where you are coming from really. The Gospel can be shared in a paragraph, or less and somebody can be saved. As I said, it is a Spiritual truth, not an intellectual understanding. It is the Spirit that brings the understanding, when I cried out it was because the Spirit revealed the deep need to be saved and that believing in Jesus and His work was the only way. We come with the faith of little children trusting with our hearts.
---Poppa_Bear on 2/26/12


The Fruit of the Spirit is not anything YOU CAN DO!

The MOMENT one is indwelt with the Spirit of Christ there is fruit whether you see it or not.

And again JamesL, scripture already told us that ONLY THE LAST was Good Ground, and only the last bore any fruit.

Now I didn't write that God did, and must have a reason.

The others fell away because there was no ROOT IN THEM.

So Jesus has already explained this parable. Read it in all teh books it's written, each one reveals just a little more than the other.

The ROOT is Christ James L...All other fruit is only plastic purchased at WallyMart!

AND teh Bible already tells us many will turn away, Just like in John 6,they believed too...but turned away!
---kathr4453 on 2/26/12


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\\you cried out in vain, because you never heard the Gospel.

So there is such a thing as a false profession of faith, as was the first three soils.\\
---kathr4453 on 2/25/12

HUH ? ! ?

The second and third heard the gospel. And not only that, they even believed it.

How does that fit with the first one, who didn't believe? It doesn't fit.

Some believe the gospel, and are eternally secure, and fall away. Others believe the gospel, and never produce any fruit.

Why would we be commanded to produce fruit if it were inevitable ???

isn't it a little redundant to command someone to do something they're going to do anyway?

Romans 7:4 says that we SHOULD bear fruit. but some won't
---James_L on 2/25/12


Poppa Bear,
you say "tut tut" to brush off my objection as gagging on gnats? Have you ever considered how many people might read your testimony ?

I hear "testimonies", and the one, single requirement for salvation is almost always left out.

People rarely mention that they believed in Jesus, and thus received eternal life.

It's almost always "I did this" and was saved.

What if an unbeliever, unaware that Jesus' death provided a substiutionary sacrifice, heard your testimony? He'll maybe "do that", remain in unbelief, and go to hell because you told him to "do" something to be saved.

It's just a sloppy way of presenting the way, the truth, and the life
---James_L on 2/25/12


JamesL, I see. You were lost in superstition and ritualistic ceremony, like so many people today. Thank God you found out whom Jesus really is, and now you can relate to him on a personal level.
---Eloy on 2/26/12


Kathr, the statements you make up are terrible, saying that I said the Sovereignty of God changes people into monkeys, is really one insane statement against the Truth of God's Word.
Your own words condemn you.
"Yet the Lord has not given you a heart to perceive and eyes to see and ears to hear, to this very day." (Deut. 29:4).
You are in great need of a spiritual awakening. And only God the Spirit can provide that. Without that quickening of the heart, you will remain blind to the Truth and always argue against the Truth as you were destined to do.
---Mark_V on 2/26/12


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Big Bear, Yes, thank you kindly brother. I appreciate every prayer you offer up for me. You are blessed.
---Eloy on 2/25/12


Eloy,
what I'm saying is that I had no idea that Jesus is God become flesh, that when He died it was to pay my debt.

I thought of Jesus as an ambiguous "son" of God, whatever that could mean. I had no concept of being saved, rescued, atoned for, etc.

I thought that if I did the right things, at the right time, in the right sequence, in the right "name" and didn't screw it up before I died, then God would let me go to heaven.

And one of those things I thought I had to do was to say the right prayer.

There was no concept of believing anything, just my own efforts
---James_L on 2/25/12


Eloy, Currently I am going through trying times and so all of my prayers have tears and crying, because it is my pain and my heart and my life that is wounded.
I know this feeling brother. It brings tears to my eyes literally, because I know exactly what you are saying. Sometimes all we can do is hold on to the Saviors robe for dear life and cry out. The soul He has given us can feel so many unexplainable emotions, worlds of hurt and confusion, but in the midst of the internal storm, He holds us like a lost child who has been hurt. He is gracious even when we fall so short, His love is so magnificent and extravagant.
Will Be praying
---Poppa_Bear on 2/25/12


MarkV, when someone makes such a stupid statement as The Sovereignty of God can change you into a monkey if He wanted is not only blasphemy,but impossible. God cannot tak man with a soul and turn that into a monkey without a soul. What then would happen to the soul..does it stay wit the monkey? So then monkey's have souls.....

SO statements like that only make your SOVEREIGNTY theory even more rediculous than ever.

I've never questioned the Sovereiignty of God....I just don't make up LIES concerning God's Sovereigty, like you all do.

God SOVEREIGNLY swore by His own words that He will save to the utmost those who put their faith in Him.
---kathr4453 on 2/25/12


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After I was saved there was an irresistable hunger that grew stronger and stronger to KNOW God My Father and Jesus Christ. One can say they know the sovereignty OF God, or the Grace OF God or the Mercy OF God, as that can all be found in book. HOWEVER to KNOW GOD and to KNOW His Son Jesus Christ is quite another matter.

That I may KNOW HIm and the fellowsip of His Suffering and the power of His resurrection is ALL tht I desire to Know and the ONLY HUNGER that relly matters to me. This is all that mattered to PAul as well.
---kathr4453 on 2/25/12


James L, So if you knew that Jesus was the rewarder of those whom diligently seek him, then where was your unbelief if you were crying out to him with whom we have to do? The fact that you were pleading to Jesus shows belief, not unbelief, for unbeleivers to do cry out to Jesus. Are you saying that you no longer cry out to Jesus, and somehow this silence is your present belief, that No crying to Jesus is your belief? Help me to understand what you are saying, are you saying that you were crying in unbelief or in doubt that there is a Jesus that answers those whom cry to him? We all have hopes that Jesus will help us, that is why we cry out to him.
---Eloy on 2/25/12


Being vocal in our prayers is normal, and depending on what we are going through, crying out is also normal. Currently I am going through trying times and so all of my prayers have tears and crying, because it is my pain and my heart and my life that is wounded. Sometimes there are no words I can pray, but only complete uncontrollable balling which overwhelms every place inside of me and there is no place remaining for trying to use words. The traumatized and hurting soul cannot brong out intelligent wording when in pain, but only crying and wailing, and hopes for help from God.
---Eloy on 2/25/12


Cath, yes, Im definitely crucified with Christ! James L, tut, tut, I imagine that if anyone reads my posts on this board that it would not be difficult for them to come to the conclusion that I vehemently believe, IE adhere to, rely on and trust in Jesus, the atonement, His perfect work on the cross, fulfilling all of the law and dyeing to make propitiation for sin. As for your elocution on belief VS calling out, the bible shows more than one who cried out, called out or requested to be saved, baptized and so on. Did the Philippians jailer completely understand the gospel, or the Ethiopian that Philip baptized, the 3000 on the day of Pentecost? The Gospel is Spiritual, not intellectual.
---Poppa_Bear on 2/25/12


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Eloy,
I cried out to Jesus hundreds of times for twenty years. I had no faith that He died as a substitute for my penalty. To me, "crying out" was one of many duties I must perform to make myself acceptable to God.

I would make sure to start with "in Jesus' name" because I thought that if I didn't make that clear first, then my whole prayer was void.

I would say how sorry I was, then "stop sinning", then promise to live my life for God, ask Jesus to come into my heart, and think I had done all that was required to earn my way to heaven - that is, unless I sinned again. Then the whole thing had to be done all over again.

My opposition is empty???

Really.
---James_L on 2/25/12


JamesL, Reading the parable, you will see the others had NO ROOT in them. So now we need to examine what ROOT here means. Does ROOT mean Christ? Does it mean the Abrahamic Covenant? The Everlasting Covenant?

Like you also said,you cried out to Jesus to save you, yet say you cried out in vain, because you never heard the Gospel.

So there is such a thing as a false profession of faith, as was the first three soils. No one is talking TULIP here, but we are talking fruit.

Some 30, 70 0r 100.

Every Christian will bear some degree of fruit, even if it's 1% if Christ truly lives IN THEM.


Fruit doesn't save me or preserve me. However faith without works...here God uses FRUIT is dead!


---kathr4453 on 2/25/12


Romans 7:4
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ, that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.


Colossians 1:6
Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world, and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:


Now JamesL, let's get one thing clear, IF BELIEVING these two verse puts me in some strange category you object ot, soo be it....I wholehartedly believe these verses to be a FACT of TRUTH!
---kathr4453 on 2/25/12


Poppa Bear, loved your testimony. When the Spirit quickens us, He makes us spiritually alive together with Christ (Eph. 2:4-7). And we hear spiritually and believe through faith. Jesus said,
"He who has ears to hear let him hear" (Matt. 11:15: Luke 8:8-10) who are those who hear? Jesus said, "But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, "as I said to you, My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me." And I give them eternal life, and they shall never parish."
Only believers through faith, hear Christ, and never parish? Why do so call Christians question Jesus? Jesus didn't die for every single individual, "I lay down My life for the sheep...
---Mark_V. on 2/25/12


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James L, Surely the one crying out to Jesus is believing that he will save him, else what would be the purpose of crying out? Therefore your oppositions are empty, and faith without expressing your belief through confession is pointless, because if belief is truly in your heart, then you will open your mouth widely and proclaim it aloud up to him with whom we have to do. Now back to you, Are YOU sure that you believe? If so, then I challenge you to prove it by start agreeing with and supporting the faith of fellow-Christians on this site: for the enemies business is to oppose real faith, and not any member of Christ's body to oppose the faith of Christians. For I do beleive that the big bear had a genuine conversion experience to Christ.
---Eloy on 2/25/12


\\and I cried out to be saved.\\
---Poppa_Bear on 2/24/12

But did you believe in Him?

Before I encountered the gospel, I cried out to Jesus hundreds of times. But I had a few problems - I Did Not Know The Gospel, and I Did Not Believe In Him. Plus, scripture nowhere says that we receive eternal life by crying out to Jesus.

Several times you have posted similarly, and each time your "testimony" ends with you crying out to be saved. Not once have I seen it end with you believing in Christ.

Believing in, and crying out to, are mutually exclusive. One can believe in Him without crying out to him, and as with me one could cry out to Him without believing in Him.

So.....
---James_L on 2/24/12


Kathr, I know for a fact you are not a potato head or a cucumber head but a hateful scorn women who will do anything in your power, to trash everyone who teaches the Sovereignty of God. You resort to name calling, and with venom in your words. You have driven a few away from here. I tried three years ago to be kind to you, answer you with scripture, and even prayed for God to change you right before the year ended in 08. God did not answer my prayers, and you got worse. You have been supported by a few who have the same hateful believes at the expense of the Truth.
I did not call you a sorcerer, but that you did what he did, tried to buy your salvation. By your own words you told us you did not have faith when you came to Christ.
---Mark_V. on 2/24/12


God formed each of His own, we are wonderfully made, formed by His own hand, unique as is our purpose in Him. He, and He alone, is able to do the work He does within each of us, on a continual basis, and does it uniquely, all according to His time, His way, and who can fathom? Hes the all wise God, perfect in all His ways, to be praised and all the glory belongs to Him alone. We are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Just as He created us, He created the desire for Him within.
---chria9396 on 2/24/12


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\\when persecution/suffering come along are offended and turn away...because there is no Christ in them. They believe yet never received...\\
---kathr4453 on 2/24/12

you're trying to plant a "tuliP".

You speak so adamantly against Calvinism, yet Perseverance Of The Saints is the primary leg on which it stands.

In the parable of the sower, only one soil is said to represent those who aren't saved - the first one, who does not believe.

Eternal life comes to those who believe the gospel "apart from works". Whether you persevere or not.

The ones who shrink back do so, not because Christ is not in them - but because the flesh gets in the way. And they are still eternally secure.
---James_L on 2/24/12


//kATHYN, SEEMS YOU RESORTED TO SLANDER AND LIES, being the reason you did so as one disagreeing with your doctrine.

Careful KATHRYN, judge not lest ye be judged (for with what judgment you judge, that is how you will be judged).

Think of it! God is not only sovereign according to Calvinism, He is also all powerful. He even can change you into a monkey so you can swing from tree to tree.
---lee1538 on 2/24/12


Pappa bear, those are great questions. Scripture tells us the fruit of the spirit is: Love Joy Peace Longsuffering etc, and then tells us immediately with that that those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh.

ONLY those crucified with Christ bear fruit, and only those Crucified with Christ have Christ in them.

This is the evidence we are saved and the result of receiving Jesus Christ.

The heart of the Gospel of GRACE is "I am Crucified with Christ, no longer I but Christ in me".

Many believe themselves to be saved yet when persecution/suffering come along are offended and turn away...because there is no Christ in them. They believe yet never received to themselves His death and resurrection life.
---kathr4453 on 2/24/12


Cath, The good ground is Christ in you
Does everyone have this good ground? Do you get it after you confess and repent? How do we obtain this good ground? In the parable, all seemed to receive the seed, but all were not furnished with this good ground.
Side note, all of the needless putdowns really put me out and make me a sad bear. Does love still cover a multitude of sins, or is there an exception for disagreements over doctrine? How do we bare one anothers burdens and gently restore one another and consider others better than ourselves? Its like a school playground the way tempers flare and the mud flies around here.
7x70
---Poppa_Bear on 2/24/12


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lEEJ, SEEMS YOU RESORTED TO SLANDER AND LIES, being the reason you did so as one disagreeing with your doctrine.

Careful LEEJ, judge not lest ye be judged.

The only living organism without free will is a vegetable. I'm not calling anyone names because they disagree with me. If MarkV wants to display MUSH for brains that's his problem.

Mr Potato head is far less damaging than calling someone a sorcerer.

MOVE ON LEEJ, not one asked your opinion!

BUT if you care to REALLY look back..the name calling and back biting began with MARKV and anyone can see that.
---kathr4453 on 2/24/12


Ok, Im taking in all this and a thought came to me. With the parable about the seeds being dropped on different soils, who provides the conditions for the soil, God or man? ---Poppa_Bear on 2/24/12



The GOOD Ground is Christ in you as only Christ in you can bear FRUIT. No one is born or conditioned to be good ground before salvation. That is teh point of the parables on the soils.

It is not teaching preelection or that anyone was born as being good ground. ALL have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God...ALL!
---kathr4453 on 2/24/12


Potato head - you need to be careful you do not end up being peeled?

Kathryn is now resorting to name calling.

Apparently this is what happens when she disagrees with the truth of Scripture which may also be the same position as that of Calvin.

However, this may be what God predestined her to do - hassle Christians to get them to study even more.
---lee1538 on 2/24/12


Mr. Potato Head,

You say I have no saving faith????? Can you be absolutely sure of that???? You claim to be God and can see inside my heart. YOU have access to the Lambs Book of LIFE???

I don't have to defind myself to you in any way...you false accuser, slanderer ane LIAR.
---kathr4453 on 2/24/12


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MarkV, you are so defiled in your heart it's not even funny, accusing anyone who disagrees with you of sorcery. WHAT A NUT CASE you are.

Where do you dream up such garbage. Your comments and attacks only make you look MENTAL not to mention totally taking out of context God's Word for your own use to bash others. How you MISHANDLE God's Word will surely come back on you.

When on earth have I ever offered YOU any MONEY to preform miracles?

GET OUT F MY FACE you nut case!

People here must really start to wonder if you really are saved...I sure do.

Christiand DO NOT falsely accuse or assault other Christians with such garbage except teh Benny Hinns!
---kathr4453 on 2/24/12


Ok, Im taking in all this and a thought came to me. With the parable about the seeds being dropped on different soils, who provides the conditions for the soil, God or man? Is that in the equation? To answer an earlier question, I believe that God had an appointed time from eternity past when I would believe. I believe that from the time I was born that He allowed certain things to happen allowing me to experience shame, gilt, brokenness and then in His perfect timing, with the quickening of His Spirit, my need for Him was revealed to my soul and everything I had ever heard about the Gospel came to the forefront of my mind/understanding and I cried out to be saved.
---Poppa_Bear on 2/24/12


Kathr, you said
"There is no where in ANY COVENANT where faith is a gift given to only a select few."

You have no understanding because you have no saving faith. You mentioned, when you came to Christ, you came with no faith and expecting to receive it later. You thought you could buy it like Simon the Sorcerer who "..saw that through the laying on of the apostles hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, Saying, "give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit" and Peter answered, "Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money. You want to buy it with your works of coming to Him.
---Mark_V. on 2/24/12


----- the highly intelligent could understand?
---JackB on 2/23/12
That is the argument from many who see this false gospel, stating one must have a PHD to even understand it.

But isn't that what comes across to most...just how stupid we are?

Although we have acknowledged we are sinners (impossible with the depraved) stated emphatically that we did not save ourselves, but Jesus death and resurrection saved us, and our faith is IN HIM, not our own works...((all that the totally depraved cannot understand because depravity means one must be Mr. Potato Head...vegetables have no free will or brains, or a conscience), we are still accused of being LOST.

So MarkV Shall we start calling You Mr. Potato Head?
---kathr4453 on 2/24/12


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Funny how markV made a commentary on my post but not Darlene_1!!!

You said a whole lotta NOTHING MarkV.

There is no where in ANY COVENANT where faith is a gift given to only a select few.

KNOW your covenents folks. Calvinism is based on a covenent not in scripture. There is NO Covenant where God only selected a few people to save and send purposely without HOPE everyone else to hell.

No where did any of the apostles state, as they were filled with the Holy Spirit, God only will save a select group who were born with their eyes already open.

NUTS TO THAT!!!

He underminds God and the LIGHT of the Glorious Gospel

Jesus is our HOPE!He's the ONLY Hope man has!
---kathr4453 on 2/23/12


That would mean you are smarter then your next door neighbor who is lost.

Or it could just mean that her heart is softer. Those who have hardened hearts are typically the ones who reject the gospel presented to them. It has nothing to do with how smart someone is. Do you honestly think God would have devised a plan of salvation that only the highly intelligent could understand?
---JackB on 2/23/12


I think it is very sad that MarkV has put his faith/belief/hope/trust in John Calvin and not in Jesus Christ. He has trusted what John Calvin said and not what God said. He BELIEVES John Calvin OVER God. IDOLATRY!! You have a ring in your nose markv, and John Calvin is jurking on it even from his grave.

You can't or never have seen any light with your head inside Calvins bowels..a place where the SON has and never will SHINE!
Pull it out MarkV!
---kathr4453 on 2/23/12


Kathr said,
"God didn't blind anyone's eyes, satan has...HOWEVER it's the LIGHT of the Glorious Gospel that opens eyes"
Yes, the light of the glorious Gospel is what opens eyes, but not everyone's eyes are open.
Then she said,
"FAith Comes by Hearing this Glorious Gospel."
Yes, faith comes because we don't have it, but not everyone who hears believes it, because faith did not come to them. It couldn't have come to only the smart people. That would mean you are smarter then your next door neighbor who is lost.
Then she said:
"LIGHT CAME INTO THE WORLD!" Light did come into the world but Jesus said, man love darkness rather then the Light.
---Mark_V. on 2/23/12


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I find it ironic that when people makes statements like this...

"Lets take you for example. You are blind to the truth and don't know you are blind. You don't recognize it as blindness."

... they never think it possible that it applies to THEM as well.
---CraigA on 2/22/12


It is an insult to be told over and over that satan, a FALLEN created creature has total control over man. Is THAT how the Sovereignty of God works? God relinquishing His Power and Authority to Satan to make SURE those God doesn want will never see? They are saying God has to put His faith in Satan to do Satan's job to keep you lost.

What Blasphemy. And NOT what scripture teaches.

God's WORD is living and MORE powerful than ANY SATAN OR DEMON who wants to control you.

Jesus Christ won the victory OVER SATAN, for those who do not know the Gospel.

If man refuses to believe the TRUTH, it is not God's fault but man's!

AND it's not that man refuses to believe, it that many LOVE THEIR SIN MORE!! =free will!
---kathr4453 on 2/23/12


THE LIGHT OF THE GLOREOUS GOSPEL.

There is no such thing as darkness. Darkness is the absense of light. Dusk, dawn or total darkness, all depends on the amount of light or no light.

LIGHT is a powerful thing in the presence of darkness. Darkness cannot overcome light but vice versa. Satan cannot OVERCOME God.

LIGHT CAME INTO THE WORLD!

AND doesn't scripture tell us some loved darkness MORE THAN Light? Was not a choice between the two made here? John 3:19

If that isn't free will, I don't know what is.

The LIGHT of the Glorious Gospel....Keep Holding it UP folks...and don't let anyone try to darken it's truth. They are powerless in doing so!

Let your light shine!
---kathr4453 on 2/23/12


AMEN Darlene_1

I agree 1000%


Immortality is not a birthright. Just because man is created in God's image doesn't mean man must possess everything God possesses. Immortality is a gift from God available only through Jesus Christ, God's only begotten Son, Who paid for our sins through His death and His shed blood on the Cross and Who rose bodily from the grave.

Scripture says, Jesus Christ "hath destroyed death and hath brought life and immortality "to light through the gospel" 2 Timothy 1:20
---kathr4453 on 2/22/12


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2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

God didn't blind anyone's eyes, satan has...HOWEVER it's the LIGHT of the Glorious Gospel that opens eyes

FAith Comes by Hearing this Glorious Gospel. It's the WORD of God that is living and powerful and sharper than a two edge sword...the surgeons knife you might say,


And Correction....2 Timothy 1:10 not 20


2 Timothy 1:10
But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
---kathr4453 on 2/22/12


Poppa Bear,you didn't create the hunger. Can anyone hunger for something they don't know about? John 6:44 No man can come to me,except the Father which has sent me draw him. God anointed his Word to produce faith,Romans 10:17 So then faith comes by hearing,and hearing by the Word of God. Hearing the Word isn't listening to a sermon,hearing means an understanding. With that understanding of who Christ is and what he died and rose to do for mankind we gain insight and faith. We believe. It takes the Word,understanding of it,and faith which brings enlightenment and plants a hunger,from God who draws us by that hunger,and our resulting sorrow for our sin to repentance. You cannot create a hunger of that depth on your own,that is a God born hunger.
---Darlene_1 on 2/21/12


James L, thank you for your answer. I'm really glad it was not you. I have a lot of respect for you, and though we don't agree with some area's we agree with many. peace I leave you.
---Mark_V. on 2/21/12


Mark V,
I just read that post again by the other James.

I missed it. He actually did write your name first, similar to what I would have done.

But still a different James. That's not my style of writing
---James_L on 2/20/12


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Mark V,
you have the wrong James, I did not write that. When I write to someone, I don't write their name in the middle of the first sentence.

I write their name first

Or

I quote them in brackets first
---James_L on 2/20/12


Jesus went about doing good and sacrificing his life and paying the ultimate price so that a person can be saved: how could anybody not be moved by this innocent and righteous and good man whom was taken and manhandled and beaten and stripped and spit on and mocked and then crucified on a cross? all for you and for me, how could anybody not care about this Jesus? this most holy one of Israel? and not be moved by how sinners have horribly blasphemed his goodness. OMG! what is wrong with people?! they have crucified and killed the holy Son of God! What do you fathom God will do to those whom have done so wickedly onto his only sired Son from heaven. Are you of them whom embrace Christ, or are you one of them that spit upon his holy face?
---Eloy on 2/20/12


James L, since you found the time to answer to my comment, and I don't know why, I will tell you also. My light shines bright, but as Kathr said, agreeing with her,

"It cannot shine thorugh liars and slanders. They need to REPENT before God can be seen in them!
---kathr4453 on 2/16/12"


Maybe that is why you do not see the light yourself? I really don't know if you can see and hear the truth. Or you just want to also argue if that is where you are going with this.
---Mark_V. on 2/20/12


Love is reciprocal. What child does not desire to please their good Father? Jesus came and sacrificed his life, expressing his desire for you to be saved, and it was your own desire that reached out and accepted his sacrifice. Some are moved to repent and accept him, but other's desires are the opposite, saying, "I don't care about Jesus, and I did not ask him to die." Therefore our desire is our responsibility, for we are commanded to desire or to love God first and completely, and then secondly we are commanded to love our neighbor as we love ourself. God did not give anyone permission to have sinful desires or to have no desire for him. When we abuse his gift of freedom of choice, then being accountable we are rightly condemned.
---Eloy on 2/20/12


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Mark do you not read what you write?? //Kathr, you do not understand spiritual blindness. Lets take you for example.//
Do you actually think you are totally right, and everyone else totally wrong?
---michael_e on 2/20/12


MarkV, what kathr4453 said was this.


It cannot shine thorugh liars and slanders.

They need to REPENT before God can be seen in them!
---kathr4453 on 2/16/12



The real problem here MarkV is this, What happened to your light? Oh, I think we can all figure that out without any problem.
---James on 2/20/12


Kathr, you said,

" Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven. (Matthew 5:14-16) A light can never be obscure unless it stops being a light"

What happened to your light? Did it stop being a light? Or was it never a light? Something happen to it if you had it.
"And this is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than Light, because their deeds were evil" (John 3:19).
---Mark_V. on 2/19/12


Michael, it was not a theory, it's an example of a blind eye that is unable to see compare to a soul that is lost, both need the power of God to be healed. That was all. Nothing to jump out of bed in madness about. Simple comparison. If it was a parable from Scripture I would have put the chapter and verse.
---Mark_V. on 2/16/12


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Jesus says You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden. Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven. (Matthew 5:14-16) A light can never be obscure unless it stops being a light.

Maybe this is true for some here on line. NO LIGHT!
However The Church is teh Light of the World because HIS LIGHT is what shines through us.

It cannot shine thorugh liars and slanders.

They need to REPENT before God can be seen in them!
---kathr4453 on 2/16/12


//So, whatever Reformed Commentary that was cut and pasted out of only gave the reformed THEORY without any scripture to back up that theory!//
Kathr, Markv seldom uses scripture because he doesn't believe it means what it says.
---michael_e on 2/16/12


Kathr, you do not understand spiritual blindness. Lets take you for example. You are blind to the truth and don't know you are blind. You don't recognize it as blindness. The lost don't recognize their blindness either, in fact they think they see very well, just check what athiest says. Spiritually he does not know God. A soul which is dead in sin is blind to the things of God and needs the biggest doctor in all the world to perform a miracle to his sight. And that is God Almighty, only He can give life, spirtual and physical an change a heart, and bring spiritual sight to the eyes, and spiritual ears to hear.
"Without God you can do nothing"
---Mark_V. on 2/16/12


OR the one blind KNOWS he's blind and knows he needs a miracle to have his sight restored.

A blind person knows he's blind, just as a sinner knows he is a sinner.

So, whatever Reformed Commentary that was cut and pasted out of only gave the reformed THEORY without any scripture to back up that theory!

And when one is truly saved, out of THEIR OWN BELLY will flow rivers of living waters.
---kathr4453 on 2/16/12


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Poppa Bear, Christan, Josef and Curtis are all correct. We love Him because He first loved us. In our fallen condition, we could never create the love of Christ in our hearts. Here is an example I read. As a physical eye once blinded cannot be restored to sight by any amount or intensity of light falling upon it, so the soul dead in sin cannot acquire spiritual vision by any amount of Gospel truth presented to it. Unless the surgeon's knife or a miracle restore the eye to its normal condition, sight is impossible, And unless the soul be set right through regeneration it will never comprehend and accept the Gospel Truth. In regeneration God bits the sinner live, and immediately he is alive, filled with the new spiritual life.
---Mark_V. on 2/16/12


When I was saved, there was an irresistible hunger that grew inside of me that was stronger than anything I had ever felt and it was only satisfied when I called out for Jesus to save me. Did I create that desire myself, or did He give it to me?

---Poppa_Bear on 2/11/12

Pappa bear, question, you were saved and tehn cried out for God to save you??

Or BEFORE you were saved something grew inside wnating to be saved???

I'll bet you heard teh Gospel that you were lost etc, FIRST, and maybe didn't respond at the time you heard it. However the seeds were planted inside and that was what was growing inside you...CONVICTION that you were lost.
---kathr4453 on 2/15/12


the lord says god knew us be for we where in our mothers womb and that he gave us a desire to want after the things of god so it is only natural that god put that hunger in you to know him
---curtis on 2/12/12


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